Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[PrivateJoker]

Well, I only made it 10 more battles, losing on battle 91, leaving my record at 90 wins.

Video: P8UG-WWWW-WW3L-KXYG

Team write up

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/15/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Return
-Sucker Punch
-Earthquake
-Power-Up Punch

Kangaskhan leads so it can soften up enemy teams, and often sweep them on her own. If you don't know about Mega Kangaskhan, it's a beast. Lots of power, and double hits that break Focus/Sturdy. She can switch out if I can predict something trying to hit Kangaskhan with something that Durant will resist, but unfortunately things that threaten Kangaskhan are usually Fighting moves like Close Combat. Durant is bulky enough that it can usually take 2 Close Combats (as long as they aren't crits), so it's usually worth it to take the hit and switch out if I know Kangaskhan is going to die.

Durant (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/29/31/31
EVs: 172 HP / 108 Def / 228 Spe
-Entrainment
-Iron Head
-X-Scissor
-Aerial Ace

You probably already know about this gimmick if you're reading this. Entrain the enemy with Truant, switch to a setup-sweeper, and you get free setup. Carries the Choice Scarf to guarantee it outspeeds almost anything. EV spread maximizes bulk so it can switch in more than once if it needs to, especially if it can switch into something it resists. It can even tank at least one hit from a lot of super effective moves, except for fire. If he switches in on fire, he's going to die. Hopefully Kangaskhan can take those out with Earthquake though, so you usually don't need to worry about that. If they happen to Burn Kangaskhan, and ruin it's ability to sweep, it's probably a sacrifice you'll end up having to make. Let Kangaskhan die, get Durant in for free, and you're guaranteed an Entrainment before Durant dies.

Volcarona (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/11/31/31/31/31
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain
-Protect

Speaking of fire, here's our setup sweeper. I wanted to run something besides a dragon sweeper, and Fire is my favorite type. The only fire setup sweepers that stood out to me were Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona, and because I already have a really solid Mega, Volcarona is the pick. This guy used a Life Orb for the first 80 wins of my streak, and switched to Focus Sash for the last 10. Focus Sash allows it to survive when pokemon carry Sturdy+Stone Edge. So Volcarona takes advantage of Durant's gimmick to get fully set up with Quiver Dance, and protecting on their non-truant turns. Once it's set up, it basically OHKOs everything. Go to town.

run #2

Volcarona (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
Nature: Modest
IVs: 13/3/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain
-Protect

This Volcarona replaced the one from the first run. Less HP to discourage enemy Explosion users. Modest nature instead of Timid for more oomph when unboosted, and more EVs in speed leave it close to just as fast as before.

Once the enemy Golem used Explosion, he screwed up all my ability to set up. Switching back to Durant and hoping he'd survive to get Truant back up was a panicked misplay. I probably could've hit him with another Giga Drain instead, let Volcarona die, and brought in Durant to finish him off with Iron Head. Sad times, but I'll try again.

 

[Pennï]

Hi, someone suggested I should move my entire thread from the RMT section here. So I'll do that now.




So now for the Super Doubles I kind of tried to come up with my own idea. When I was playing through the game, I caught a Slakoth and kind of liked that pokemon. So I wanted to use it, but it has the Truant Ability. I thought I might have found a way around that, using Galvantula which has access to Gastro Acid.


So, this is the team that got me through Doubles. I'm at a 5 win streak at Super Doubles, and noticed that the teem needs further adjustment. Thats why I thought I'd sign up here and ask the more experienced people for advice.

Apfelsine (Galvantula) @ Focus Sash

Ability: Unnerve

EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA

Timid Nature

IVs: 24 Atk

- Gastro Acid

- Bug Buzz

- Sticky Web

- Volt Switch


Apfelsines main purpose is as follows: It should set up the sticky web in order for incoming pokemon to drop their speed by one stage. It also has Unnerve instead of compound eyes, the reason behind that is that I don’t need thunder, because of Volt Switch and all the other moves have 100% accuracy anyway. If they lead with a psychic type, I would go straight for Bug Buzz instead of the sticky web. Gastro Acid is there for the second turn, it will supress Slakings Truant ability and thus enabling him to move every turn. It also should be sashed to ensure it will have a second turn.

Bruno (Slaking)

Ability: Truant

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Slack Off

- Aerial Ace

- Earthquake

- Return


Bruno, aka Slaking has decent speed, but not more than Galvantula. He will inflict Life Orbed Stab-Return damage to anyone who enters the field, except for types which are immune to it of course. Once Galvantula rids him of his Truant Ability, he can keep on attacking or go for a slack of if needed. Arial ace is for minimizing Drifblims and the like, because it can never miss and does decent damage when super effective + Life Orb. Earthquake will be useful once Galvantula has fainted or Volt Switched out, Pachirisu will have Protect on it.

Samba II (Pachirisu) @ Sitrus Berry

Ability: Volt Absorb

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def

Impish Nature

IVs: 14 Atk

- Super Fang

- Protect

- Follow Me

- Nuzzle


Pachirisu (I rebuilt him, I assume everyone who reads this will know this set already) will take Super Effective Fighting hits, Super Fang threats like Rhyperior or Aggron, or Empoleon. For super speedy ones that have not been yet caught in the sticky web I have Nuzzle.

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite

Ability: Pixilate

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Impish Nature

IVs: 17 SpA

- Dragon Dance

- Return

- Earthquake

- Roost


Altaria with her Pixilate Ability can hopefully get set up one or two times with Dragon Dance and then sweep what ever’s left on the field. I thought if Slaking lives long enough they are bulky enough to alternatively Attack/set up and Roost / slack off. Should Slaking faint, the duo Pachirisu + Mega-Altaria works well as well.




So far this team got me through Battles 1-20 in Doubles. I started Super Doubles and began to wonder if it needs further adjustment.


For instance, I’m wondering where the sweet point for speed stats lie for Galvantula + Slaking duo. I have a +speed Galvantula, but is it really needed for that team or could I go for a +sp Attack Nature?

Common threats so far I noticed are any kind of major status conditions, basically anything that prevents Galvantula from doing its thing.

 

[Altissimo]

The freaking Quick Claw Walrein at the Battle Maison also gets me every time.

ok so i found this post while just randomly looking at another thread and uhhh everyone else remember how we were concerned about this streak because of a hint that QC Walrein existed, among other things? well I guess it wasn't just a hint

(this is totally a relevant thing to post)

 

[Anna says hi]

We should be thankful that Gamefreak never gave that abomination a Quick Claw, as you wouldn't be able to reliably sub-stall it (assuming you can get your sub user in safely) and the only real check would be Sturdy.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

ok so i found this post while just randomly looking at another thread and uhhh everyone else remember how we were concerned about this streak because of a hint that QC Walrein existed, among other things? well I guess it wasn't just a hint

(this is totally a relevant thing to post)

laaawwwl that was exactly the guy I was referring to a while back when I made some post about illegitimate streaks. IIRC his team had a pretty substantial number of wins, I think it was for Singles? I never remembered the name but there you go. That guy. He was also blacklisted from trading topics at the time, mildly amusing but more than likely relevant to the overarching assumption that his streak was untrustworthy.

I make this post solely because I still get a strong kick out of anything related to QC Walrein (because no amount of proof can squelch the firm widespread belief that he exists! Fear the claw.)

 

[Altissimo]

laaawwwl that was exactly the guy I was referring to a while back when I made some post about illegitimate streaks. IIRC his team had a pretty substantial number of wins, I think it was for Singles? I never remembered the name but there you go. That guy. He was also blacklisted from trading topics at the time, mildly amusing but more than likely relevant to the overarching assumption that his streak was untrustworthy.

I make this post solely because I still get a strong kick out of anything related to QC Walrein (because no amount of proof can squelch the firm widespread belief that he exists! Fear the claw.)

800 was the claim. He posted 500 and people posted a list of threats, etc and then he got to 800 ("got to 800") without having addressed the threats at all and having some very, very questionable alternate item choices, damage calcs, and self-identified threats, and that was the point at which we were more like "yeah uh that did not happen"

 

[PrivateJoker]

So I'm partway into my next run now. Only 38 wins in, but I made a new Volcarona for my team, and feeling a little more confident.

Volcarona (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
Nature: Modest
IVs: 13/3/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain
-Protect

Switched to Modest Nature to get a little more oomph and secure more 1HKOs on even resistant opponents, and went with less wasted bulk. Since most things that actually get a chance to hit him are either gonna drop him to 1 HP (thanks to Focus Sash), or do so little damage that we can Giga Drain the health back, we're not concerned about bulk anymore. In fact, you might notice that his HP IV is 13, not 31. The less max HP we have, the more likely we are to get our HP back up to full, and have the safety and security of our Focus Sash back. In fact, having fewer HP might even make certain enemies less likely to decide they need to use a move like Explosion, which would screw up our chances to set up. 13 isn't some magical optimal number, it's just a decently low, not 31 number. Maybe I'll worry about making one with 0 some day, but it's unlikely to be necessary.

 

[NoCheese]

Since most things that actually get a chance to hit him are either gonna drop him to 1 HP (thanks to Focus Sash), or do so little damage that we can Giga Drain the health back, we're not concerned about bulk anymore. In fact, you might notice that his HP IV is 13, not 31. The less max HP we have, the more likely we are to get our HP back up to full, and have the safety and security of our Focus Sash back.

This seems wrong. If an attack hits you, it's going to do some amount of damage. Regardless of your max HP, you'll still have that much damage to recover to get back to full. Sure, lower HP means you have less HP to recover to get back to full from 1 HP, and lots of attacks may take you to 1 HP thanks to the Sash, but once the sash is used to hang at 1 HP against an attack that would otherwise KO you, being closer to "full" no longer helps you any, since getting back to full HP won't also give you a new sash. Contra the Sturdy ability, which you CAN retrigger multiple times, making low HP a virtue on things like level 1 Aron + Berry Juice.

 

[NoCheese]

For instance, I’m wondering where the sweet point for speed stats lie for Galvantula + Slaking duo. I have a +speed Galvantula, but is it really needed for that team or could I go for a +sp Attack Nature?

Common threats so far I noticed are any kind of major status conditions, basically anything that prevents Galvantula from doing its thing.

I'm skeptical of this team's ability to put up a long streak, because it gets a lot weaker if Galvantula is disrupted, and sadly, it's relatively easy to disrupt. Still, it's fun to go at the Maison with unique stuff, so why not give it a go?

You're absolutely going to want to run max Speed with a boosting nature on that Galvantula. +Speed Galvantula maxes out at 176 Speed. Neutral Gavantula maxes out at 160 Speed.

Take a look at the Maison Speed Tiers, paying special attention to set4 Pokemon and all sets of legendaries, since these are the Pokemon you'll face most often after battle 40.

While 176 still only Speed ties you with some nasty threats like Infernape4, and leaves you outsped by Talonflame, you still outrun a ton of threats in that 161 - 175 zone. When your team is so very dependent on Galvantula getting to act and suppress Slaking's Truant, you want it to have all the Speed you can get. This is especially true when you're running Focus Sash, which makes running all those HP EVs a lot less exciting.

Note that in early Maison battles, enemy Pokemon will be a bit slower than listed, since they won't initially have perfect IVs. But after battle 40, all enemy Pokemon will have perfect 31s in every stat, and the listed Speeds will be accurate.

Best of luck!

 

[Altissimo]

in the comments:
me: "lol "cheating" there's literally 0 evidence that the game is rigged in favor of the AI. it's a mix of conformation bias and statistics stating that weird shit is gonna happen inevitably"
some random dude: "your kidding right?"

ah yes, got to love lasting misconceptions about the maison :^)

 

[PrivateJoker]

This seems wrong. If an attack hits you, it's going to do some amount of damage. Regardless of your max HP, you'll still have that much damage to recover to get back to full. Sure, lower HP means you have less HP to recover to get back to full from 1 HP, and lots of attacks may take you to 1 HP thanks to the Sash, but once the sash is used to hang at 1 HP against an attack that would otherwise KO you, being closer to "full" no longer helps you any, since getting back to full HP won't also give you a new sash. Contra the Sturdy ability, which you CAN retrigger multiple times, making low HP a virtue on things like level 1 Aron + Berry Juice.

Focus Sash won't come back if you get back to full? Cuz the idea is that if the enemies only have so many HPs I can drain, then the fewer HP I need to regain to be at full, the better. I'd still need to kill 2 pokemon to get back to full, but if my HP were a lot higher, fully draining 2 enemy pokemon might still not be enough. I'm not overly worried about getting hit with something that would have 1 shot me twice in a row, since I'm likely going to 2HKO them in the first place.

 

[SilverLining]

Focus Sash won't come back if you get back to full? Cuz the idea is that if the enemies only have so many HPs I can drain, then the fewer HP I need to regain to be at full, the better. I'd still need to kill 2 pokemon to get back to full, but if my HP were a lot higher, fully draining 2 enemy pokemon might still not be enough. I'm not overly worried about getting hit with something that would have 1 shot me twice in a row, since I'm likely going to 2HKO them in the first place.

The Focus Sash is a consumable item, so it won't be replenished if you were to reach full health again. Besides, an HP IV of 13 results in 151 HP, while 31 nets 160. A difference of nine hit points isn't going to make much of a difference in terms of regaining health. It's possible that having those extra points could allow you to survive certain attacks, but that list of moves would be fairly short if at all existent.

 

[Marowak2000]

in the comments:
me: "lol "cheating" there's literally 0 evidence that the game is rigged in favor of the AI. it's a mix of conformation bias and statistics stating that weird shit is gonna happen inevitably"
some random dude: "your kidding right?"

ah yes, got to love lasting misconceptions about the maison :^)

It's weird how people use moves like focus blast in the maison but are convinced of AI hax....they obv skipped math on the day their class looked at probability :p

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I use Focus Blast myself. I just try to have Gravity in play. But then I also use a lot of shitty pokes for the fun of it that have no business in Singles. Also, the guy who made that vid should have known he was asking for trouble with a slow lead that uses Belly Drum. Even if he obviously doesn't look things up, having enough sense to know what goes into a Belly set should likewise have the common sense to know why using one in the Maison, as a lead no less, is bad.

I know he wouldn't be convinced, but Lanturn3 has Discharge as its only damaging Electric move with only 168 EVs off a below average SpA. It inflicts a max of only 67% to 252/0 Azumarill, and without rewatching the vid I'm fairly positive it had more than three quarters of its health. It used Ice Beam because the AI doesn't display move preference when there are no KOs to be had.

"tl;dr lol run your fukken damage calcs bro"

 

[Pennï]

I'm skeptical of this team's ability to put up a long streak, because it gets a lot weaker if Galvantula is disrupted, and sadly, it's relatively easy to disrupt. Still, it's fun to go at the Maison with unique stuff, so why not give it a go?

You're absolutely going to want to run max Speed with a boosting nature on that Galvantula. +Speed Galvantula maxes out at 176 Speed. Neutral Gavantula maxes out at 160 Speed.

Take a look at the Maison Speed Tiers, paying special attention to set4 Pokemon and all sets of legendaries, since these are the Pokemon you'll face most often after battle 40.

While 176 still only Speed ties you with some nasty threats like Infernape4, and leaves you outsped by Talonflame, you still outrun a ton of threats in that 161 - 175 zone. When your team is so very dependent on Galvantula getting to act and suppress Slaking's Truant, you want it to have all the Speed you can get. This is especially true when you're running Focus Sash, which makes running all those HP EVs a lot less exciting.

Note that in early Maison battles, enemy Pokemon will be a bit slower than listed, since they won't initially have perfect IVs. But after battle 40, all enemy Pokemon will have perfect 31s in every stat, and the listed Speeds will be accurate.

Best of luck!

Thank you for your answer! I will rebuild that Gavantula then. Secondly, is there anything you would suggest changing in Galvantula's and Slaking's movesets?

I also will be perfectly happy with a streak of 50 in Super Doubles, since it was kind of my own idea with those two and a streak of 50 would more than suffice as of now. In the meantime, I agin more knowledge every day. Next will be Super Triples and after that I wanna try to get that Starf Berry :)
Again, thanks!

 

[Altissimo]

I use Focus Blast myself. I just try to have Gravity in play. But then I also use a lot of shitty pokes for the fun of it that have no business in Singles. Also, the guy who made that vid should have known he was asking for trouble with a slow lead that uses Belly Drum. Even if he obviously doesn't look things up, having enough sense to know what goes into a Belly set should likewise have the common sense to know why using one in the Maison, as a lead no less, is bad.

I know he wouldn't be convinced, but Lanturn3 has Discharge as its only damaging Electric move with only 168 EVs off a below average SpA. It inflicts a max of only 67% to 252/0 Azumarill, and without rewatching the vid I'm fairly positive it had more than three quarters of its health. It used Ice Beam because the AI doesn't display move preference when there are no KOs to be had.

"tl;dr lol run your fukken damage calcs bro"

I like the part when he says "I used Play Rough on Lanturn to see how much it'd do" like yes that was probably your best choice but uh... you really shouldn't just be running at this blind... especially with a team that doesn't really have a lot of synergy like azumarill/garchomp/charizard and uses inaccurate moves like wide lens-less play rough and focus blast

As far as I can tell, he never even made it to 50.

(As a friend of mine put it when I mentioned this to her, "Take responsibility for your own shitty playing!")

It's weird how people use moves like focus blast in the maison but are convinced of AI hax....they obv skipped math on the day their class looked at probability :p

The best part is Focus Blast actually hit both times he used it. If it missed, I'm sure he would have been crying hax, but the fact that it hit twice actually impressed me... of course he doesn't even mention that hax in his favor because confirmation bias

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

As far as I can tell, he never even made it to 50.

(As a friend of mine put it when I mentioned this to her, "Take responsibility for your own shitty playing!")

I watched the entire vid; the last battle he lost was round 3, though I think you knew that. While he didn't learn anything, he witnessed the folly of not looking up sets. I'm sure Bouffalant survivng Focus Blast and OHKOing with Head Charge is "cheap" but I'd love to see him survive 40 rounds and face Bouffalant4, as that behemoth gains a Life Orb. A lot of physically-built Gen V pokes have very scary stat spreads due to the absence of fluffing worthless SpA, and Bouffalant is right up there with them. Darmanitan and Conkeldurr are even worse if you're not prepared for them.

 

[Altissimo]

I watched the entire vid; the last battle he lost was round 3, though I think you knew that.

Actually, I'd missed that. I was talking more generally, though - he uploaded some other Maison videos and in one he lamented not having reached 50.

While he didn't learn anything, he witnessed the folly of not looking up sets.

the same folly i faced back when i was struggling through the platinum battle tower... ah yes, the arrogance of young pokemon players who think "how bad can it be" and fail to realize just what the battle facilities really consist of, i have been there

The debate I was having in the comments of that video continued with the person who thought I was joking about the AI being fair saying "All of tthe opposing pokemon are fixed to go against your pokemon by its type, stats and movesets.Not to mention ) it can pull off low accuracy moves many times in a row." which is hilarious because a) it's presented as if it's a statistical fact that this is the case (when I asked him if he had evidence or documentation or whether this hypothesis had been tested experimentally, he never responded) and b) "the opposing pokemon are fixed to go against your pokemon by [...] stats and movesets" as though the enemy just suddenly gains the moves that are the best "counter" to your team simply by virtue of existing on the field with your team.

I told my friend that if the AI really did do that, I never would have won a specific match I misplayed with Durant/Drapion/Cloyster where the only reason I won is because the 3rd Pokémon was Granbull1 which has no chance to break Drapion's sub with either of its attacking moves (and the other two are Charm and Protect, meaning it's not always even going to be attacking) and therefore Drapion was able to fully set up despite the enemy not having Truant. If the AI counterteamed, there were a lot of other Pokémon that could have taken Drapion out that it could have "chosen" but also, literally any of the other 3 Granbull sets will break an unboosted Drapion's sub and therefore I would have been completely fucked.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Ugh. Those are the people I can't stand, because they'll just barf up anecdote after anecdotal proof, with replays serving as confirmation bias fuel and little else. Terrakion murders Kangaskhan, therefore the AI cheats by leading it. Look, here's a battle where that exact scenario plays out against me.

No, I prefer the guy that claimed Jolteon ignored Garchomp's ground typing and OHKOd it with Thunder. I prefer the guy that didn't know Gen V fixed the Fire Fang bug from DPP and that it no longer damaged Wondertomb, then claimed a Crustle used said move and critted. The flagrant bullshitters, because they don't even have viewable anecdotes and you can have a lot of fun calling their bluffs. The QC Walrein ones are less fun because they're so common and will convince each other that they're right by virtue of numbers. Still, make an outrageous offer if even one of them can produce a replay and enjoy the rebuff that follows.

 

[Altissimo]

No, I prefer the guy that claimed Jolteon ignored Garchomp's ground typing and OHKOd it with Thunder. I prefer the guy that didn't know Gen V fixed the Fire Fang bug from DPP and that it no longer damaged Wondertomb, then claimed a Crustle used said move and critted.

what the hell where are these stories from, i have got to see this

 

[GG Unit]

This seems wrong. If an attack hits you, it's going to do some amount of damage. Regardless of your max HP, you'll still have that much damage to recover to get back to full. Sure, lower HP means you have less HP to recover to get back to full from 1 HP, and lots of attacks may take you to 1 HP thanks to the Sash, but once the sash is used to hang at 1 HP against an attack that would otherwise KO you, being closer to "full" no longer helps you any, since getting back to full HP won't also give you a new sash. Contra the Sturdy ability, which you CAN retrigger multiple times, making low HP a virtue on things like level 1 Aron + Berry Juice.

Considering that the prior streak was lost due to a Pokemon with 4x effective Rock Slide using explosion instead and preventing set-up (which really drives home how weird it is that pretty much everything with Explosion will take its time using neutral non-STAB against Drapion), dropping some HP to possibly decrease the chances of that happening is probably more relevant than a few extra HP on a Pokemon that should only be attacking at +6.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

what the hell where are these stories from, i have got to see this

Oh, I doubt the topics exist anymore, but they were some of the more memorable rants from various complaint topics on GameFAQs. I've lurked there for a long time and usually repeatedly visit the Pokemon boards when a new game is released. I haven't been part of the OR community, though. After X was released I preferred to come here.

But rest assured, if you go there now and search "Maison" you're bound to get some tasty morsels. In fact I might do that now for a minute or two.

 

[Marowak2000]

The best part is Focus Blast actually hit both times he used it. If it missed, I'm sure he would have been crying hax, but the fact that it hit twice actually impressed me... of course he doesn't even mention that hax in his favor because confirmation bias

I was surprised to see it hit twice in a row also...I haven't seen focus miss blast hit twice in 16 years let alone in the same battle!

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

In the bit of skimming I did, I didn't find much bitching at all, let alone worth repeating, surprisingly... some Yawn spam, QC OHKOs, a guy who bragged about his BellyRest Azumarill in the same breath as counterpicking who may very well be the guy who posted that video... and while not a rant, I did see a topic about selecting the fourth move for a poke he planned to unleash on the Maison- DD Tropius.

But I did find this. Not much of a rant, but Altissimo might find it amusing:

So this thing is just so stupid. I even have the "perfect" Durant + BP + Sweeper setup and I'm STILL losing to stupid hax like focus sashing magic bouncers and self-knocking out fake-outers. Seriously, how on earth do you get to 50 wins?

Sounds like someone's having bad run-ins with Mienshao/Medicham, on top of using a BPer for some odd reason and not knowing how to play around said threats.

 

[Altissimo]

it aint perfect if you're losing like that before even 50 ahahaha that's called "bad teambuilding" (seriously, a BPer?... Fluke's claim was Durant/BP Blaziken/Cloyster and we all saw how that looked) and "misplaying"!

I'm going through some GameFAQs topics (on the X board specifically) and there is so much salt tho

couple people are thinking logically, though, like one who provided this nice quote:

You're going to remember this one battle forever, but you'll forget every other battle that went just fine.

ok maybe i should stop derailing the thread now