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So I don't know jack about BH, but this is just something I was thinking.
How viable is Specs SP Mega Houndoom? I think would have the 2nd most powerful attack without set-up after FF Chandelure.
Houndoom is most likely the best Specs SP user because of it's high Speed, high Sp. Atk, and Fire typing. The only more powerful special Fire types are Chandelure and Mega Charizard Y, but both of those have speed issues.
So I don't know jack about BH, but this is just something I was thinking.
How viable is Specs SP Mega Houndoom? I think would have the 2nd most powerful attack without set-up after FF Chandelure.
Houndoom is most likely the best Specs SP user because of it's high Speed, high Sp. Atk, and Fire typing. The only more powerful special Fire types are Chandelure and Mega Charizard Y, but both of those have speed issues.
Adaptability is only a 4/3 boost. This is because STAB moves already do 1.5 damage. That means an adapt base 100 move would have 200 bp, but SP would have 225, it is stronger due to the existence of STAB.
Solar Power requires keeping the sun going, which is not an easy task and pretty much requires you build your team around keeping sunny momentum. But I imagine it'd work pretty well once you got it going. Unless you ran into Regenvest Kyogre.
If using specs + solarpower you're gona need a lot of good prediction so the health lost isn't gona get wasted.
Tho for little recovery having oblivion wing doesn't hurt, oughta be able to give you some "reloading" when needed.
Weather in general is pretty hard to keep up in normal BH, so I'd say its pretty so-so with its worthwhile.
Nah, I just forgot about Explosion. Stacking Solar Power with Drought and Specs is still really powerful though, and I think it is still the most powerful unboosted (no set-up either, so power trick shuckle doesn't count either) special attack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Kyurem-B Helping Hand Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Noibat on a critical hit: 566820-666852 (5668200 - 6668520%) -- guaranteed OHKO for all you doubles bh enthusiasts, maybe want to run heatran along kyurem b tho :I
Since the talk about the Ability Clause has pretty much died down, I thought I'd bring it up again (on page 30 near the bottom). If nothing becomes of this, it will be the last time I'll speak of it and let it fade away.
So I was looking through the posts after and I found (unless I counted wrong) that there are 2 posts in favor (excluding mine), 2 posts undecided and 2 posts against it, in addition to 7 likes on my proposal post.
I was just wondering what happens from here? Is it worth getting a vote?
I would be the one to decide on implementation, and will be watching this debate. Feel free to find me on irc in #pokemon or #showdown some time if you want to make your case more directly. If that doesn't work you can always start a conversation with me over smogon's pm system.
With regards to the implementation itself, due to a combination of things I haven't been able to keep as abrest of current developments in the gen 6 meta as I would have liked to, so I'll probably need to ask around for user input in making my decision. That input could come in the form of a vote, but I'm not sure yet.
On the ability clause, I was going to try to peak this team before posting about it. But now that my Spring Break is over, I'm finding I don't have enough time to play to overcome ladder decay. While I didn't screenshot it because I was planning to go higher, and didn't think I'd decay so quickly, I got to about 1550, so I was pretty much three to six games from peaking anyway. Though I screwed around with a couple of less-than-optimal teams for a match or two since, so that alt has dropped to below 1450.
Plus I'm tired of playing this team because it's boring and too easy and I want to experiment with some stuff rather than fight ladder decay to prove a point.
Anyway, using nothing but Poison Heal as my ability, I managed to get to 22 - 3. Or 22 - 2 if you agree with Lcass when he said his win wasn't justified, or at least how easy it was, since he knew my team in our match but I didn't know his. The other two were due to bad luck (a crit on my Giratina when it would have survived and a slightly-damaged Mega-Gengar surviving one of my hits that had a chance to OHKO at full HP). Per KIP's request, I attempted to save a replay of every match I did. A couple of times it glitched, a couple of times I forgot, so I can only prove 19 - 1. Though I'd argue 19 - 1 is not only significant, but shouldn't happen by spamming the same ability.
If you look up the alt name, Contrumors, you'll see it's 33 - 9 since I played with a few other teams before and after running that one, including a triple Contrary team that told me I'm too timid to abuse Contrary properly and my Gen V mono-PH team, which wrecked stuff until Xtwo showed up.
After this experience, and with how easily I beat some of the players I recognize as being more skilled, such as Kumi (who I would consider to be better than myself in general), I now, more than ever, firmly believe we need an ability clause of some sort. Why?
1) If the opponent had a dedicated counter to Poison Heal, it would eventually get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of Poison Healing. Entrainment, Simple Beam, and the like only have so much PP and it can only spam the move so often while taking hits and status effects from my team. I never ran into Pecha + Trick, but it'd only stop one mon out of five.
2) If any of the opponent's mons were vulnerable to PH abusers, that vulnerability would be maximized since the entire team could take advantage of it. That Pokemon was not just dead weight, but, in fact, a liability against mean. Similar to how an Imposter-weak sweeper would be a liability against a 6x Imposter team. They literally would have been better off with an empty slot.
You could make this case that this shows, rather than that Ability Clause is necessary, that PH is OP. I counter that PH is nowhere near this OP if it's limited to only one or two Pokemon per team. And if really necessary, I can start coming up with a new team centered around a single ability to further my case.
At any rate, I'm retiring this team from active use except via request since I feel I've made the point I want to with it and so Kumi stops hating me. I'll probably RMT it, but I'm not sure at this point.
Finally, here's the 20 replays I managed to save. All matches, noobs and skilled players, are included. I don't expect anyone to watch all of these, or heck any really. There's just here as proof and nothing more. Name of my opponent is included, either the alt name or, if I knew who the user's main was, their name.
I am mainly an offensive player, so I can't say much from stall's point of view. I'm pretty decent at playing offense and balanced offense, so I can offer my opinion on that side of the metagame.
I think a balanced playstyle would be least affected by an ability clause, especially balanced teams leaning towards offense. For a balanced team to function effectively and to be able to win battles, you need a solid defensive backbone and a couple designated offensive pokemon. Because of the nature of this type of teambuilding, you have to pull from a huge variety of abilities to fulfill your needs. Overall, I doubt balanced offense would be affected by an ability clause because you don't need (although it could be useful) copies of an ability. Many times this is just a waste of a pokemon slot. For defensive and utility roles, you have abilities like Magic Bounce, Prankster, Poison Heal, Unaware, Flash Fire, Imposter, Harvest, and probably a few things I've forgotten. For offensive roles, you can have abilities like Prankster, Mold Breaker, Refrigerate and Co., Poison Heal, Unburden, Protean, Multitype, Illusion. That's definitely plenty of abilities to choose from. In my experience, I've never had to use the same ability twice. The only times I've done this is when I'm fooling around (like my all prankster team), and when I'm stacking two of the same threat, like double or triple cubes.<yes, I've done that before, all 3 with identical movesets
A hyperoffensive playstyle would be directly impacted by an ability clause. In my opinion, and from my experience, an offensive team needs to be largely imposter-proof. From my experience Poison Heal is the easiest way to do this (I ran 3 PH'ers on my old HO team). Implementing an ability clause would require more creative and diverse ways to make imposter proof sets. Sets that aren't just 6 Mega Gengars lol. It's definitely possible, but it'll probably require more creative ways to use judgment.
As for my actual opinion on an ability clause:
I don't actually know if it would benefit the metagame; this is something that is very difficult to quantify. Different players will definitely view this differently. I think, however, it wont have a negative effect on the metagame, it would just change things. I think it would make things more interesting by making a need for more diverse and more creative sets.
It's possible. I don't have a very firm opinion on this, I could go either way. Would make things more interesting. TBH I just want to see 6 contraries gone lol.
LO LoR puts holes in everything that doesn't resist it, but FF Steels and Fire- types ruin your day. I was attempting to go for the unresisted coverage Mawile-M has in OU with the moves, but Knock Off has an embarassing 98 power and Meteor Mash is quite frequently the stains - hitting things for neutral unboosted with bottom of the barrel moves doesn't quite get there in BH.
I feel that an ability clause is needed, however, I also feel that we should at least be able to use 2 two of the same ability. offensive and defensive playstyles alike will take a big impact with just a one ability clause (not the main point) the main problem is that without two Poison Heal Pokemon, sweepers + sleep become very hard to deal with. Poison Heal is the most effective ability to counteract this in most cases thanks to its anti-imposter properties and constant healing.
Most players depend a little more on team matchup, yes, but there are some that attempt to counter as many threats as possible. If we get a one ability clause, all it will do is shift the meta to a metagame based on team matchup more than anything.
If we're talking about consistency and balance in the metagame, I humbly believe that this is the best option.
I'm pretty much keeping my same stance on the ability clause the same as last time:
2 of each ability at max would be most optimal without hurting need for several roles with same ability and would also stop the ability spam so you don't need to worry about over burdening your designated counters (a good counter should be able to deal with one and atleast cripple another)
I think this will also make the meta less luck based because if a noob brings a bunch of contrary mons that happen to burn your shed or crit your chansey then you , a decent bh player are pissed because you didn't run unaware.
Yeah, I think a two-ability clause is the way to go! Only being allowed to have one of each ability would be unnecessarily constricting, but being limited to two would definitely remove the frustration of losing to a BRUTE FORCE 6 CONTRARY LOL team.
Who knows, though. People are jerks- expect workarounds (although that's just creative teambuilding.) It's also not like the Ability Clause would be set in stone- we can always remove or modify it if it doesn't work.
Yeah, I'm still pretty new to BH, but I've recently theorymonized a new set I think may work. Just want to see what yall think about it.
Ho-Oh @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
- Spore
- Coil
- Drill Peck/Fire Punch
- High Jump Kick
Max Out Evs
With really nice special bulk, I figured that a Coil set would be really nice to make it a very good tank. PH + Spore Combo, along with Drill Peck's rather high PP, It can stall Imposters very well. Spore is nice for sleep, while the 2 attacking moves have good coverage.
The main problem I have is that it would like Recovery, Spore, Coil, and 2 attacking moves all on the same set. Also, if I want a move that has high BP to threaten after 1-2 Coils, I would prob need Brave Bird, which would be best on a Magic Guard set, which would be good, but now it needs to run Recovery, which means either no dual coverage, or no Spore @-@
Anyways, This set is so hard walled by FF Aegislash and bulky Ghosts in general (lookin at you, Giratina). Its also very easily phazed out, but you would need to tank a very hard hit (or be Spored)
So yeah, this post will prob be very long, but I'm sure it can work. Any suggestions will be considered. Thank you for your time ^_^
