QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
You're kidding?!I'm playing this everyday and quickly confirming that elevations play a huge role in how far you'll get in the battle factory.
You're kidding?!I'm playing this everyday and quickly confirming that elevations play a huge role in how far you'll get in the battle factory.
Sunflora's an old favourite of mine so I hope you succeed in this. It's not an easy Pokemon to use effectively; it doesn't even have the luxury of a wide movepool but does get Earth Power in Gen IV which alongside Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power gives it just enough moves for passably decent coverage. It also does benefit from being a Grass-type as this gives it a handful of useful options to play with.First time poster in this thread looking for a little advice. After working on ongoing streaks in Emerald Battle Palace, and Platinum Multi Battle w/ in-game Trainer (which will hopefully have their own separate posts soon), I have decided to take a short break and try and focus on a challenge/ aspirational run I have been thinking about for a while. I want to try and go for a long winning streak in the Battle Hall and Battle Tower with Sunflora.
Sunflora obviously brings its fair share of obstacles to any challenge, and so one centered in the Battle Frontier will prove to be especially difficult; however, I am determined to give it the best possible shot before completely writing it off. That being said, I have been looking over the options for Gen IV Sunflora, and they are quite humbling. I do like to theory craft with fringe Pokés as often as possible, and I have seen good success working in the Gen III Frontier with Pokés like Stantler and Megainium. BUT, I haven't worked a ton with the Gen IV Frontier and so I am asking for any potential sets/ theories that might help make this streak a reality. For the Battle Hall I plan on working with a couple of different sets, most likely around lv.30-lv.45 but any advice from more experienced veterans would be helpful.
The goal for the tower is at least to reach a streak of 100 (so Sunflora can get the ribbon) but I would like Sunflora to participate in the streak as opposed to just bringing it to the last set. I also have a copy of Pokémon Diamond, so I may end up trying to achieve the tower streak there as I know it is significantly less difficult than achieving it in Platinum.
I have some preliminary sets conjured up that are mostly just standard special offense with earth power/ leaf storm, as well as some potential special *wall* sets, but I suppose I came to seek alternative creative options for Sunflora that I may have missed or failed to imagine. As a side note, I am so happy to see this thread is alive an active, and I hope I become a more regular familiar face soon!
View attachment 595226
WRT Lapras/Weavile, the AI acts oddly if it doesn't have a SE move - you'd assume it'd just choose the best neutral move (as a human would) but more often I've found that it just randomly picks any move.Reporting a PtHGSS Multi Battle (Human Partner) Streak of 56 (ongoing, cartridges)
Again nothing special but not sure when I will carry on with it so reporting it now.
The human partner is myself.
Like my recent in-game partner multi streak the purpose of this team was to give my precious Weavile another ribbon.
Team 1
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View attachment 609088
Weavile (M) @ Focus sash
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
Same Weavile and set as before. This time it gets to be a lead and sees far more action.
It primarily works as fake out support, while the other side does heavy damage usually KOing something.
As a lead, it's offensive moves are considerably more useful. Night slash can kill a few things that Latios doesn't like e.g. Gengar, psychics with shadow ball as well as help deal with bulky trick room setters.
Brick Break is still a bit rubbish but can help kill some of the scary ice types alongside Latios.
When it's at low health/sash it can switch out for dragonite to sponge a hit and come back later for another fake out.
View attachment 609089
Nestor (Dragonite) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
IVs: I can't remember anything except 31 Att
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Ability: Inner Focus
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
"Find dragons first. That's all I can tell you."
Same Dragonite used in my old old old multi streak. The only reason it's here is because I wanted it to also get the ribbon. It also has a set made for singles but works reasonably well here.
It has some bulk and can often switch in to attacks trying to KO Weavile well and hit very hard back.
Outrage may not seem ideal but I typically try to wipe out one side of the opponents first so it did actually get used a fair amount. Earthquake is of course handy alongside Latios and Fire Punch is extra coverage for punishing steels.
Dragon dance was typically used when there was only one side of opponents remaining and the partner could deliver a KO, putting a nail in the coffin for whatever the AI's last Pokemon is.
Sitrus berry was chosen since Nestor was often switching in on attacks which helped its longevity.
Since Nestor was chosen for the sake of ribbons, there are plenty of other better choices for this slot.
- Mence/Gyarados would have been nice with intimidate to benefit from all the switching which would help with rock attacks which weren't pleasant for this team.
- A bit cheesey but another fake out user to benefit from the switching, e.g. Hitmontop with intimidate as a bonus, Hariyama with good switching bulk as well as a helpful slow mon in case of trick room, and perhaps a fun pick, Toxicroak which could hopefully tank rock or fighting hits and heal off surf which I would imagine giving to Latios if I had this arrangement.
- Dusknoir as an ultra-reliable switch-in for Weavile and a sort of tank to handle a potential trick room.
Team 2
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View attachment 609095
Trebor (Latios) (M) @ Choice Specs
IVs: I can't remember anything except 31 Spe
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Shadow ball
Same minty dragon as before, doing pretty much the same role as before. Latios deals most of the damage, and tries to wipe out one opposing trainer quickly. This time it benefits a lot from the fake out support and most matches go by very smoothly.
One change I made was replacing Psychic with Ice Beam after I lost in a previous attempt partly because it couldn't KO a Hippowdon. Except in the early rounds where fighting and poison types are prevalent, Ice Beam turned out to be much more useful. But Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt were still the most frequently used moves.
Trebor also benefitted from a bulkier switching partner...
View attachment 609096
Tahu Nuva (Heatran) @ Choice Scarf
IVs: 31/0/14/30/25/31
EVs: 76 HP / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Heat Wave
A fiery protector with pink eyes, clasped in metal.
Scarf Heatran was the way to go in gen 4 right? Heatran would switch in on pretty much any attack that could KO Latios, taking laughable damage and hit back, punishing steel and some ice types hard. Latios could then just as easily switch in to save Heatran. This defensive switching also had the benefit of resetting the choice item(s).
You may think having 2 choiced mons in one team may seem a bit cheesey, and you would be right. There were times it was a little awkward to use but generally it played out quite well.
Since Heatran is new, it's the only one with any thought put into the EVs: 180 spe with scarf let it outspeed base 110s. This was intended to handle awkward speed ties with Latios such as gengar, froslass, and other Latis but didn't come into play much thanks to Weavile but was still reassuring to have. The other EVs are just to maximise its stats at level 50. They are tailored to its wonky IV spread so don't copy them.
View attachment 609097
The one time Heatran's speed was sort of useful.
Flamethrower was by far the most commonly used move, with Earth Power and Dragon Pulse sometimes used as coverage. I speculated there may be a scenario where heat wave would be the best play but that never happened. I think Flash Cannon would actually be more useful for coverage here: in particular, Shuckle can be quite annoying and Armaldo of all things can be quite scary for this team.
Having 2 choiced mons with this core switching synergy raises the question of using Draco Meteor and Overheat, as there's the additional benefit of switching the stat drops away. And it's very tempting but of course this is the battle tower so we can't leave things to chance. That said, if you were trying to speedrun to 50 battles or something, it might be a fun option.
Usually the way a battle would start is Weavile would fake-out one opponent, while Latios KOs the other, and hopefully the two of them can KO whatever is sent in after that, possibly taking a KO as well in the process.
Once one trainer is wiped out it's not always a case of piling on the other, some examples of more careful plays include:
- Weavile switches out, resetting its fake out while Latios/Heatran KOs the opponent.
- Dragonite sets up with Dragon dance, while Latios/Heatran KOs the opponent
- Latios/Heatran switches out of a choiced lesser used coverage move while Weavile/Dragonite KO the opponent
It may seem a little redundant to set up like this when it's already 2v1, but you never know what nonsense the AI is going to send out so you want to assume a better position if you can. Think about how you would normally feel when the AI sends out Sheer Cold lapras/Walrein or Quick Claw Machamp vs how you feel in the same scenario, knowing you have a fresh Fake Out ready to pin it down to guarantee the KO.
Sometime you would have to give up on using Fake out on turn one in favour of piling on a threat that Latios cannot KO, such as a Trick Room setting Dusknoir (Night Slash and Shadow ball is enough to KO). Not ideal but the alternative can be disastrous. Weavile being quite frail is often a magnet for attacks and will survive with focus sash anyway so you can still be in a good position to finish off one trainer.
Good switching is an important part of this team, preserving your mons so you don't end up in a 1v2 scenario is very important, but switching isn't just a defensive play you have to bite the bullet on, it's something you should actively benefit from, e.g. gaining another fake out turn or resetting choiced moves. (Dragonite is an exception as it's just a ribbon leech but imagine if it was something with intimidate or fake out that would be really cool)
I really enjoy this format where you have to consider the synergy of your switching partners as well as your trainer partners to give yourself as many options as possible.
I very nearly lost battle 50, but the AI seemingly gave me a pass. I accidentally earthquaked my own Heatran (yeah I deserved to lose) which led to a 1v1 scenario, my Weavile who had taken sandstorm damage vs the opponent's Lapras. Looking at the trainer spreadsheet the Lapras was:
874 | Lapras | Modest | Brightpowder | Surf | Ice Beam | Psychic | Thunderbolt | HP/SpA
I ran damage calcs and Brick Break was a guaranteed 3HKO, and Lapras' surf did 40-47.5% probably a 3HKO but 2 high rolls could be bad. I just had to hope for no misses or crits.
First turn Weavile lands Brick Break, Lapras uses Ice Beam???
Second turn Weavile lands Brick Break, Lapras uses Ice Beam again???
Third turn Weavile KOs the Lapras
What was the AI thinking here? Any other move would do more damage. Does it just go for any old chip damage if it can't 2HKO or something? Was it aiming at my already KO'd Latios? Did it remember an earlier turn where I switched to Dragonite and it calced on that? Is there just a random chance it uses a sub-optimal move for uncertainty and I just got lucky? Was it fishing for a freeze?
In any case an undeserved win for me and I got my ribbons.
Another odd battle was 51 where I faced some NFEs:
View attachment 609098
A bit of a relief after the last battle but Mr Mime was still annoying.
This was again way to much detail for such a small streak, but I had a lot of fun with this format, and again the team could be improved a lot (Dragonite and Heatran had exactly the same coverage lmao). I'll push it further when I get more time (or maybe I will lose round 57 who knows).
Straight hypnosis was probably the move, dream eater would prevent life orb from killing me. 3 subs, all broken, then hypnosis lead to me winning anyway.average fella said:the question is whether hypno or subbing up for a potential miss then hypnosis is the move
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 115-136 (89.8 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (33.0% chance to OHKO after accuracy)
actually i don't see a reason to have all this health. life orb kills me anyway. 3 subs will do it
average fella said:NEVER
IN
DOUBT
Slowbro was 3, beat one of the eq whiscash sets, leafeon comes in, a download+otr opportunity if I've ever seen one, slowbro sacked, p2 comes in and trick rooms and sees double team, it's 1. Tri attack misses this roll:average fella said:so... mystery box slowbro
not mystery box slowbro!
can't be 2
honestly i love 4, 1's good too, 3 isn't that bad either
i love mystery and intrigue in my battle 56's
Rests on the first calm mind, second calm mind without incident, after the first psychic it gets a funny freeze. Little did I know, I had a funny instant thaw up my sleeve, crisis averted. Last of Registeel2 gets a funny crit on latios, mence comes in and i dd, turn on speedup, and somehow don't make a horrible mistake the entire time. Battle 1 escaped.average fella said:252 SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. +1 0 HP / 252+ SpD Latios: 62-74 (40 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. +2 0 HP / 252+ SpD Latios: 48-56 (31 - 36.1%) -- 33.5% chance to 3HKO +2 252 SpA Latios Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 84-100 (54.2 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +1 252 SpA Latios Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 64-76 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HK
i have to, right? i do have to? yes, i have to
Staraptor? comes in. Razor Fang flinch, second one killsaverage fella said:a gift from razor fang
Battle 59average fella said:razor fang is the gift that keeps on giving
no swap.average fella said:it'd be a stupid overspecing move to swap lanturn or registeel for gatr. insane to do on battle 3
I thunder uselessly. I hit a hydro pump as it earth powers, I am now truly tasked with a 1v3. I double team 4 times, 2 misses on the first 2 turns, but 2 hits seal my fate.average fella said:FUCK
WHY DID I DO THAT
GROUND
SPEC
i didn't even read what set it was
what move did it use, anyone in the audience
I'm aware that Mesp/Drap/Gar is literally the top-ranked team in singles atm but (since you're just going for 100) you might have more luck with a more defensive 3rd slot in place of Garchomp. Registeel is a good bet for this sort of thing but since Registeel and Drapion share an Earthquake weakness Skarmory might be a more sensible option, or perhaps even Gyarados or Salamence since they both have Intimidate and you can potentially switch back and forth a couple of times to reduce the damage from a powerful physical opponent like the Staraptor you mentioned.Hello, very noob question. I'm just trying to get 100 wins in HG Battle Tower for the trainer star, been doing Starmie / Tyranitar / Garchomp for a few days but keep losing to crits or bright powder or whatnot, so I'm trying the Mesprit / Drapion / Garchomp trick scarf strategy now. It works pretty well, but there are some situations I don't know how to handle - is there a post or resource somewhere where someone's listed the basic "playbook" for dealing with some of the common pitfalls when using a trick scarf setup?
Particularly, I'm not sure what to do when the opponent's lead can 2HKO the trick user - for example, Salamence using Outrage, or crits. I tried searching this thread for "Salamence" and "Outrage" but it mostly yielded people posting their sets.
Also how to deal with OHKO leads like Sheer Cold? I tried PP stalling it using Drapion's substitute, then switching to Garchomp as soon as struggle started and set up with swords dance and substitute, but I could have wiped if it landed Sheer Cold on Drapion's first turn out.
Or what about when the opponent is locked into a 10pp move? Always set up on Garchomp? It doesn't seem like enough for acupressure to reliably set up, like if you only get accuracy / speed / special attack boosts.
Thanks!
Update: lost another run to a Choice Band Starraptor using Brave Bird :/ really curious how you're supposed to play around that
just speaking as someone that was building a team going for 100 as well; most important thing is knowing when you can get away with trick + status move and what'll outspeed you after you trick it scarf (meaning you can't trick + get followup). for things that 2HKO mesprit + outspeed after trick then what you do will likely depend on what the enemy can do, with attacks that can't safely be set up on (eg. brave bird, outrage, flare blitz) soliciting charm and cases where you can both trick + status / moves that drapion resists or chomp can pp stall (like shadow ball, night slash, or stone edge) soliciting trick.Hello, very noob question. I'm just trying to get 100 wins in HG Battle Tower for the trainer star, been doing Starmie / Tyranitar / Garchomp for a few days but keep losing to crits or bright powder or whatnot, so I'm trying the Mesprit / Drapion / Garchomp trick scarf strategy now. It works pretty well, but there are some situations I don't know how to handle - is there a post or resource somewhere where someone's listed the basic "playbook" for dealing with some of the common pitfalls when using a trick scarf setup?
Particularly, I'm not sure what to do when the opponent's lead can 2HKO the trick user - for example, Salamence using Outrage, or crits. I tried searching this thread for "Salamence" and "Outrage" but it mostly yielded people posting their sets.
Also how to deal with OHKO leads like Sheer Cold? I tried PP stalling it using Drapion's substitute, then switching to Garchomp as soon as struggle started and set up with swords dance and substitute, but I could have wiped if it landed Sheer Cold on Drapion's first turn out.
Or what about when the opponent is locked into a 10pp move? Always set up on Garchomp? It doesn't seem like enough for acupressure to reliably set up, like if you only get accuracy / speed / special attack boosts.
Thanks!
Update: lost another run to a Choice Band Starraptor using Brave Bird :/ really curious how you're supposed to play around that
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What trainer are you battling?
Leda
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This trainer has 48 different sets, which constitute 12578 different teams.
There are 15 alarming movesets, and there is a 0.6751 chance of running into at least one of them.
There is 0.3777 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.2709 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.1895 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
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DEWGONG 0.259024
WEAVILE 0.258865
ARTICUNO 0.258865
ABOMASNOW 0.25648
FROSLASS 0.251868
MAMOSWINE 0.249006
LAPRAS 0.24837
GLALIE 0.246621
JYNX 0.246303
REGICE 0.242805
GLACEON 0.240897
WALREIN 0.240897
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Please enter a Pokemon you have seen.
Regice
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Possible sets:
REGICE 4 0.265226 Shell Bell Modest Ice Beam Thunderbolt Hyper Beam Focus Blast 70
REGICE 3 0.252783 Chesto Berry Bold Ice Beam Flash Cannon AncientPower Rest 70
REGICE 1 0.240995 Lum Berry Modest Ice Beam Signal Beam Charge Beam Amnesia 70
!!! REGICE 2 0.240995 Leftovers Impish Avalanche Hammer Arm Double Team Curse 70
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Which one was it? Enter a number.
4
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DEWGONG 0.190123
WEAVILE 0.188889
ARTICUNO 0.188889
LAPRAS 0.18642
FROSLASS 0.185185
JYNX 0.183951
GLALIE 0.183951
MAMOSWINE 0.183951
GLACEON 0.181481
WALREIN 0.181481
ABOMASNOW 0.145679
REGICE 0.0
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There is 0.2975 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.1741 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.1395 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
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Please enter another Pokemon you have seen.
Walrein
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Possible sets:
WALREIN 1 0.258503 Chople Berry Adamant Ice Fang Aqua Tail Swagger Encore 85
WALREIN 2 0.258503 Life Orb Brave Avalanche Earthquake Crunch Curse 76
WALREIN 4 0.251701 Leftovers Modest Surf Ice Beam Signal Beam Hail 85
!!! WALREIN 3 0.231293 Lax Incense Bold Sheer Cold Fissure Rest Sleep Talk 85
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Which one was it? Enter a number.
3
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DEWGONG 0.117647
WEAVILE 0.117647
LAPRAS 0.117647
ARTICUNO 0.117647
JYNX 0.088235
GLALIE 0.088235
FROSLASS 0.088235
ABOMASNOW 0.088235
GLACEON 0.088235
MAMOSWINE 0.088235
WALREIN 0.0
REGICE 0.0
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There is 0.1176 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.0882 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.0882 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
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Please enter the last Pokemon.
Glaceon
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Possible sets:
!!! GLACEON 3 0.333333 Focus Sash Modest Blizzard Hyper Beam Hail Mirror Coat 85
GLACEON 4 0.333333 Wise Glasses Modest Ice Beam Shadow Ball Signal Beam Water Pulse 85
!!! GLACEON 2 0.333333 Leftovers Calm Ice Beam Double Team Yawn Hail 85
!!! GLACEON 1 0.0 Lax Incense Calm Ice Beam Water Pulse Double Team Baton Pass 85