3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

[Kadabrium]

also i wonder how viable are the Hyper Beams. I find that the battles end in 1vs1 duels quite often.

 

[ethan06]

I guess it might be a good idea on something that can really hit hard with it, and doesn't suffer that much from 4MSS. Mega Gardevoir and Porygon-Z spring to mind. I wouldn't really recommend using Porygon-Z though because it's walled flat by Tyranitar. It is quite situational, though, and neither of those are bulky or strong enough to make it to the endgame, especially considering that Gardevoir needs to mega-evolve first. Perhaps something like Giga Impact Snorlax, or Frenzy Plant MVenusaur?

 

[Pyritie]

So if hacks are getting through, can't the player be reported or something? Nintendo was supposed to have their system in place to prevent this, they should stick with it and update it.

First of all, a well-hacked pokemon is indistinguishable from a legit or RNG'd pokemon, so there's no way to elimite all hacked pokemon without also destroying some legit ones too.

Secondly, everything that pokebank lets through is still legal. It doesn't allow wondertombs or things with 252 in every EV or impossible stuff like that. It does let through some hidden abilities that were never released and there are ways to trick it to get pokemon in certain balls that you otherwise couldn't get them in.

The current hack detection is definitely better than it was back in december though.

To be more accurate, you can just alter a few lines of codes in something like Pokesav and the Kalos watermark will show up when it's transferred. There's another failsafe to this however: The memory girl in Anistar City can tell if your Pokemon was previously from Kalos or not.

Of course, this probably only matters from a trading point of view.

I thought they fixed that?

 

[Nighty]

Hi, I'm in the process of breeding a team for this metagame, mostly using a bunch of ideas and methods seen in OU, and I would appreciate advice on it:

Volcarona @???
Ability: Flame Body
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
Modest Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hurricane???

Gliscor @Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
252 HP / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Substitute
-Protect/Taunt???

Medicham @Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
-High Jump Kick
-Zen Headbutt
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch/Ice Punch???

Trevenant @Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Atk
Impish Nature
-Horn Leech
-Will-o-Wisp
-Curse
-Rest

Blastoise @Blastoisenite
Ability: Torrent-->Mega Launcher
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 SpD
Modet Nature
-Water Pulse/Scald???
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Rapid Spin???

Crobat/Tyranitar???
???
???
???


The question marks indicate stuff where I'm not sure which one to use or if they work at all in this metagame. The first three have already been bred (Larvesta, Gligar and Meditite) and thus I don't want to change, but the later three I'm still deciding on, are they good partners for the first three? Is Tyranitar as a counter to Fire types like Talonflame a better choice than Crobat for Fairies? Is Rapid Spin needed in this metagame? Any other changes I should make to the movesets or EVs?

 

[Chev]

Hi, I'm in the process of breeding a team for this metagame, mostly using a bunch of ideas and methods seen in OU, and I would appreciate advice on it:

Volcarona @???
Ability: Flame Body
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
Modest Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hurricane???

Gliscor @Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
252 HP / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Substitute
-Protect/Taunt???

Medicham @Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
-High Jump Kick
-Zen Headbutt
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch/Ice Punch???

Trevenant @Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Atk
Impish Nature
-Horn Leech
-Will-o-Wisp
-Curse
-Rest

Blastoise @Blastoisenite
Ability: Torrent-->Mega Launcher
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 SpD
Modet Nature
-Water Pulse/Scald???
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Rapid Spin???

Crobat/Tyranitar???
???
???
???

The question marks indicate stuff where I'm not sure which one to use or if they work at all in this metagame. The first three have already been bred (Larvesta, Gligar and Meditite) and thus I don't want to change, but the later three I'm still deciding on, are they good partners for the first three? Is Tyranitar as a counter to Fire types like Talonflame a better choice than Crobat for Fairies? Is Rapid Spin needed in this metagame? Any other changes I should make to the movesets or EVs?

For Volcarona I'd recommend a Focus Sash, and only to fill in Hurricane if you either want to risk a miss when you need it, or if you are running a rain setter.

Gliscor does not need Protect, so either Taunt or Knock Off would suit him well there.

Blastoise also holding a Mega Stone? If it's for catching people off guard, it won't do too much sadly. Medicham is underwhelming unless he is Mega, so it would be easily seen through. I still enjoy running an older Blastoise set:

Blastoise Leftovers
Torrent/Rain Dish
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef (or 4 Spd)
Bold
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin/Focus Blast
- Dragon Tail/Flash Cannon

The set itself catches many people off guard enough to not quite understand what is going on long enough for you to begin doing some heavy damage. Add in any number of layers of Spikes and Rocks and you got your work done.

As for the last spot, possibly Support Ttar? He runs very well setting up rocks/Twave, while still doing immense amounts of damage. It would be a nice addition to what you have.

I fully understand where you are coming from with running two separate mega evos, I really do. But from my experience, the pokemon actually holding the item can hurt you in the decision making process depending on your opponents team. Overall it is more effective to run 1-2 additional "trick megas" whom perform another role altogether that is set around a sort of "Anti-Meta" strategy. It's been working wonders for me, running 14-5 the other night before falling asleep playing in my chair :P

 

[Nighty]

Focus Sash makes sense, and I'm only considering Hurricane because I don't have access to Giga Drain, and I'm not sure if any of the support moves it can use fit well (maybe Substitute?).

I had not thought about Knock Off, I will have to try that out first to see if it's better than Taunt.

I figured Tyranitar with Stealth Rock was likely to be a better choice, perhaps something like this?

Tyranitar @Assault Vest/Leftovers?
Ability: Sand Stream
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake


And the reason I wanted to go with 2 Megas was the introduction thread on this forum, which suggests running two and choosing the one that fits the opponent better. But I guess I can do what you say and run regular Blastoise with Lefties, or maybe Weakness Policy to make up for the lack of Mega Stats?

 

[Tortoise]

Hi, I'm in the process of breeding a team for this metagame, mostly using a bunch of ideas and methods seen in OU, and I would appreciate advice on it:

Volcarona @???
Ability: Flame Body
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
Modest Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hurricane???

Gliscor @Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
252 HP / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Substitute
-Protect/Taunt???

Medicham @Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
-High Jump Kick
-Zen Headbutt
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch/Ice Punch???

Trevenant @Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Atk
Impish Nature
-Horn Leech
-Will-o-Wisp
-Curse
-Rest

Blastoise @Blastoisenite
Ability: Torrent-->Mega Launcher
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 SpD
Modet Nature
-Water Pulse/Scald???
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Rapid Spin???

Crobat/Tyranitar???
???
???
???

The question marks indicate stuff where I'm not sure which one to use or if they work at all in this metagame. The first three have already been bred (Larvesta, Gligar and Meditite) and thus I don't want to change, but the later three I'm still deciding on, are they good partners for the first three? Is Tyranitar as a counter to Fire types like Talonflame a better choice than Crobat for Fairies? Is Rapid Spin needed in this metagame? Any other changes I should make to the movesets or EVs?

Tyranitar is a good choice on Battle Spot 3v3, especially if you give it Stealth Rock and see an opponent with huge Stealth Rock weakness (there are such players...).

For Volcarona, Leftovers works well enough in my experience, as long as you don't send it on a suicide mission against a Rock type attack. Hurricane has a very good chance of catching opponents off-guard, and I find the 70% accuracy still somewhat acceptable (at least I usually don't try to Hurricane the opponent if they can OHKO Volcarona :p).

Do be more aware of potential surprise sets if you happen to play at the same time the Japanese are playing (lots of weird sets that can catch you off-guard).

EDIT: Do note that Assault Vest is not compatible with Stealth Rock on your proposed set.

 

[Nighty]

Oh crap, totally forgot that AV doesn't let you use status moves, my bad. :$

 

[Meultima]

I thought they fixed that?

They did? What exactly do you mean? Do tell me more.

Blastoise also holding a Mega Stone? If it's for catching people off guard, it won't do too much sadly.

Medicham is underwhelming unless he is Mega, so it would be easily seen through. I fully understand where you are coming from with running two separate mega evos, I really do. But from my experience, the pokemon actually holding the item can hurt you in the decision making process depending on your opponents team. Overall it is more effective to run 1-2 additional "trick megas" whom perform another role altogether that is set around a sort of "Anti-Meta" strategy. It's been working wonders for me, running 14-5 the other night before falling asleep playing in my chair :P

Many of the top ladderers in the board's ladderboard topic from last season ran two Megas on their team. It may not be the only way to reach the upper echelons, but it certainly should never be discounted.

 

[Pyritie]

They did? What exactly do you mean? Do tell me more.

I know back in december you could just set the game origin byte to be B2W2 + 1 and you'd end up with kalos (and therefore get the pentagon) but since their hack checks have gotten better, I've heard that poketransfer picks up on that now and doesn't allow pokemon through that have been modified that way.

Haven't confirmed it myself though

 

[Meultima]

I know back in december you could just set the game origin byte to be B2W2 + 1 and you'd end up with kalos (and therefore get the pentagon) but since their hack checks have gotten better, I've heard that poketransfer picks up on that now and doesn't allow pokemon through that have been modified that way.

Haven't confirmed it myself though

That is very interesting! Where did you hear it from, the Wi-Fi forums?

Anyway, now for a Top 10 Singles Spotlight:

http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/user/P-577-0319-M/battle/

This chap by the name of 'teien', currently in the 5th place, runs a team based around stall, and one of the centrepieces of his team is something only heard of in hearsay and rumours down the grapevine, but now you can see this rare sight in all its ignoble glory:

It is, the one, and only...

Sap Sipper Azumarill.

All seriousness aside (Eh?) it seems to work very well for him.

 

[vBlue]

also i wonder how viable are the Hyper Beams. I find that the battles end in 1vs1 duels quite often.

Never seen Hyper Beam, but I do see a lot of the 130 BP hard-hitting-but-lowers-attack-2-stages attacks from JP players. In fact, 2 of those hit almost 10% harder than 2 90 BP attacks even with the second attack having lower damage, and you gain the benefit of a huge attack the first turn. It's quite powerful in 3v3.

In stalking some videos I'm noticed a Swampert lead working very well for one of the top 10 players.

Swampert @Sitris Berry
Ability: Torrent?
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe?
Bold Nature?
-Stealth Rock
-Yawn
-Roar
-Waterfall

Mostly used to set up Blaziken and/or M-Pinsir sweeps. It seemed to really pay off and almost always got the job done.

 

[Guilan]

Hyper Beam refrigerate aurorus is truly powerful, I've heard.

 

[ethan06]

Hey, does anyone else think there'd be any merit to reviving the Interactive Threat List thread now that everyone has Pokébank? I'm still trying to create a team that won't break my rating so I haven't played in a while... Having an intimate knowledge of what common mons to prepare for without actually having to play would be so useful...

 

[Komaru]

Alright so here's what I got, its still a WIP. I haven't tested it but on paper it looks like it'll do just fine. Anywho, here it is:

Gardevoir @Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
88HP / 164Def / 252SpAtt / 6SpDef
Modest Nature
-Shadow Sneak
-Wish / HP Ground
-Psyshock
-Hyper Voice

Inspired by a player I fought at the Battle Spot. So Hyper Voice for main stab move that leaves dents everywhere, Psyshock to take care of the pink blobs which I'm starting to see every now and then, now this is the part I can't decide... I use Wish as way to recover the main star of the team but also to heal my partners on obvious Bullet Punches/Sludge Bomb thrown at Gardevoir. But sometimes I wish having HP Ground cause she gets walled very hard by the likes of Heatran... I don't know, what you guys think? And lastly Shadow Sneak, now this move I gotta say... This move has saved my ass countless of times especially since Gardevoir sometimes fails to get the OHKO on some pokes so I use Shadow Sneak to finish them off and its good cause you at least get some form of priority (was thinking of changing her nature to Quiet to maximize Shadow Sneaks damage output).

Bisharp @Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
252HP / 252Att / 6Def
Adamant Nature
-Pursuit
-Iron Head
-Knock Off
-Sucker Punch

Omg this thing is so good this gen! Especially with that Knock Off buff no Pokemon can switch in safely on him without loosing a chunk of HP and their item! I use this guy mainly to revenge kill/trap obvious pokes (such as Gengar/Latios/Aegislash ect) and he has PERFECT synergy with Gardevoir. He's immune to Poison which Gardi hates, Resists Steel type moves and resists Ghost! While Gardevoir takes care of Bisharps Fighting weakness x4 and can sponge incoming Fire attacks pretty easily (except Heatran unless I'm carrying HP Ground but of course Heatrans now carry Flash Cannon so I gottawatch out for that). Iron Head for stab and to kill some fairys without Aura Sphere (I'm looking at you Togekiss). His ability is useful I also see lots of Voltturn teams as well giving him that nice boost.

Landorus-T Rocky Helmet
252Att / 252Def / 6HP
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant/Impish Nature
-U-turn
-Superpower
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

I couldn't think of anyone else to complement the team but this guy gives Intimidate support and helps take care of both Gardevoir and Bisharps weakness (Steel, Poison and Ground). Attacks are pretty much self explainatory, U-turn to gain momentum and scout, Stone Edge for pesky Talons/Zard or other birds, Superpower for those T-tar leads (as well as Excadrill, Ferro, Heatran and others) and EQ for stab.

I'm pretty new to this so I'm sorry if my explanation isn't as good as most of the ppl here at smogon. Overall what you guys think? Any suggestions? Changes? Any ideas for other team members to complement the team (so I can have a full team of 6 members)?

Edit: I'll probably use Intimidate Salamence to compliment the Fairy/Steel/Dragon core everyones been talking about. Same job as Lando except he'll be able to take incoming Fire attacks while providing a Ground immunity for Bisharp and as well as covering the really rare Bug type for Gardevoir. Any ideas for a set?

 

[Kadabrium]

Bisharp has a bunch of weaknesses and doesnt force as many switches.

 

[Komaru]

Bisharp has a bunch of weaknesses and doesnt force as many switches.

3 weaknesses, a ton of resistances and an immunity. That doesn't seem too bad and besides its all about teamwork, you see a pontentially dangerious move coming your way? Simple, just switch. Other than that no Pokemon would like to get a stab boosted Sucker Punch to the face (not to mention Knock Off and Pursuit). And with Intimidate Pokemon roaming around and not to mention Defog users, he is viable choice this gen imo c:

 

[ADT7]

Bisharp @Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
252HP / 252Att / 6Def
Adamant Nature
-Pursuit
-Iron Head
-Knock Off
-Sucker Punch

Battle Spot is all about coverage, this moveset is severely limiting in terms of coverage. Personally I'd choose one of Pursuit or Knock Off to keep and then replace the other one with a coverage move.

 

[Komaru]

Battle Spot is all about coverage, this moveset is severely limiting in terms of coverage. Personally I'd choose one of Pursuit or Knock Off to keep and then replace the other one with a coverage move.

I just took the set the had recommended here at Smogon but if anything do you have any suggestions? Only things that come to mind is Thunder Wave to give the other team members some kind of support (and letting Gardevoir outspeed most of the tier) but then again I could leave that job to Rotom H...

 

[Chev]

I just took the set the had recommended here at Smogon but if anything do you have any suggestions? Only things that come to mind is Thunder Wave to give the other team members some kind of support (and letting Gardevoir outspeed most of the tier) but then again I could leave that job to Rotom H...

The sets you will see here are (nearly) all for 6v6. 3v3 is rather frowned upon if you bring it up outside of this branch, and it isn't much cared for by many. The set itself is magnificent, but leaves too much to be desired in a 3v3 match-up. Personally I'd drop pursuit for literally any move you can give him that differs in typing from what he currently knows. Sure, its STAB. Sure, if they switch it means death. But you would need to predict that switch, and most things that fear him do not fear having to finish him off and then see what comes in next.

If anything, an entire team of 6 showing would give us a better idea of what you need in coverage. I understand its about the 3v3, but without optional choices for your 3, you may be rolled by something you completely overlooked. That's why you bring 6, and choose 3. More unpredictability, more strategy, more fun.

 

[Komaru]

The sets you will see here are (nearly) all for 6v6. 3v3 is rather frowned upon if you bring it up outside of this branch, and it isn't much cared for by many. The set itself is magnificent, but leaves too much to be desired in a 3v3 match-up. Personally I'd drop pursuit for literally any move you can give him that differs in typing from what he currently knows. Sure, its STAB. Sure, if they switch it means death. But you would need to predict that switch, and most things that fear him do not fear having to finish him off and then see what comes in next.

If anything, an entire team of 6 showing would give us a better idea of what you need in coverage. I understand its about the 3v3, but without optional choices for your 3, you may be rolled by something you completely overlooked. That's why you bring 6, and choose 3. More unpredictability, more strategy, more fun.

Like I said it was a work in progress, I'm still getting used to the whole 3v3 thing. Its completely different than what I'm used to (if not most of the members here in Smogon). I'll take your suggestion though, sometimes my opponent predicts my prediction and ends up screwing my whole play so I'll be dropping Pursuit ASAP. As for the team I was hoping to get some help from experienced players since the 3v3 meta is full of surprises but I'll keep experimenting with the team until I can finally get up high in the ranks. Thanks btw c:

 

[jeb4]

Like I said it was a work in progress, I'm still getting used to the whole 3v3 thing. Its completely different than what I'm used to (if not most of the members here in Smogon). I'll take your suggestion though, sometimes my opponent predicts my prediction and ends up screwing my whole play so I'll be dropping Pursuit ASAP. As for the team I was hoping to get some help from experienced players since the 3v3 meta is full of surprises but I'll keep experimenting with the team until I can finally get up high in the ranks. Thanks btw c:

In general, don't expect your opponent to be smart. Even in 1900 elo brackets I still don't sense any remote competent levels of prediction.

Anyway at the above discussions, the mentality for 3v3 is a little different than a 6v6 match. It's not about the perfect ways to defend, but a race (a very fast race) to who can wipe each other first. I can tell you now that almost every team I face a garchomp with, I sack my own chomp in order to take his. Objectively it might have accomplished nothing for both teams but for me, my team sweeps so much easier with that nuisance gone. So something being very solid in resistances and immunities is not necessarily a good reason to keep a mon for a core.

 

[Kadabrium]

^and especially if youre running a bulky team wo spe then its all qbout you dealing more damage on your opponents switch than he does on you

 

[ADT7]

I've been using a bulky attackers team for a while, but I've only just started having any real success (17-4, I'm in the 1600s) over the past couple of days with the following:

Dragonite @ Assault Vest
Adamant
Multiscale
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant
Technician
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Quiet
Overgrow/Thick Fat
252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Def
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Earthquake

Heatran @ Life Orb
Modest
Flame Body
252 HP/252 SAtk/4SDef
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse

Landorus-T @ Expert Belt
Adamant
Intimidate
252 Atk/252 Def/4 HP
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Modest
Levitate
252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump

Overall I'm reasonably happy with it, although I do struggle against Dragons, in particular Garchomp (normally I "sacrifice" Landorus to 2HKO Garchop, but it leaves Landorus basically dead), it's a shame my Heatran doesn't have HP Ice, but the only IV I know for it is it's SAtk (31).

I'm considering switching out Heatran and Rotom-W for Talonflame and Azumaril, but I worry that will leave me very open to opposing Talonflames in particular, as whilst Landorus is a fairly decent check for it, it takes a lot of damage in the process.

 

[Komaru]

In general, don't expect your opponent to be smart. Even in 1900 elo brackets I still don't sense any remote competent levels of prediction.

Anyway at the above discussions, the mentality for 3v3 is a little different than a 6v6 match. It's not about the perfect ways to defend, but a race (a very fast race) to who can wipe each other first. I can tell you now that almost every team I face a garchomp with, I sack my own chomp in order to take his. Objectively it might have accomplished nothing for both teams but for me, my team sweeps so much easier with that nuisance gone. So something being very solid in resistances and immunities is not necessarily a good reason to keep a mon for a core.

I see... So bulk and synergy isn't exactly everything in 3v3? Regarding Garchomp though, HE IS EVERYWHERE! I'll probably decide to bring an Ice type Pokemon like Mamoswine to care of his kin, especially since Dragonite is everywhere as well. Little by little I'll keep adding and switching things on the team, I just needed a little advice on the meta worked is all cause I ain't exactly "good".