Oh... This is a post I should do. Okay then, without any more procrastinating, observe...
T(GC)APU LELE (Tankiness Forme)So... I got an idea in the CAP room to run a Scarf Lele set, and after some calc'ing, I realized that matchups like
View attachment 82717
"252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 372-440 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO"
were not helping its viability. So, instead I decided to run Specs because it can actually kill something.
My Specs Lele set, with calcs, are shown below.
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The Ataris (Tapu Lele) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 60 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
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Okay... So, to explain myself.
The main calc: 60+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 486-572 (107 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. This justifies the whole damn thing for what I needed it to do, when this calc "252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 192 Def Tapu Lele: 238-280 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO" is taken into consideration. So, you're tanking a Scarfed KyuB and responding with an OHKO. Pretty nice. Other matchups, important and not, shown below.
Um, if you have any questions/hate, remember these two things. 1. You can find me on PS! under the name of THEHEHEHEH, and 2. This is my first post of a mon, you haters. Not that that changes anything.VS. Mega-Gyarados:
Offense: 60+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 222-262 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, note that on a Mega this number is larger.
Defense: 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Tapu Lele: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO, noice. If they're bulky, you outspeed. Also, DDanced Waterfall doesn't kill you in one blow, so that's a plus.
VS. Pretty much all other Dragons: You OHKO on offense while tanking, if necessary. Dragonite can tank one hit, but doesn't KO even with Banded Iron Head.
VS. Victini: 252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Tapu Lele: 271-319 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, WHAT IS THIS MADNESS? (You OHKO with Shadow Ball, BTW.)
VS. Lando-T: 60+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus in Psychic Terrain: 379-447 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO, and you outspeed if it has that kind of health.
VS. Pretty much all Poison-types (Damn you Alolan Muk): You OHKO with Psychic.
VS. Pretty much all Fighting-types: You OHKO with Moonblast or Psychic.
Other matchups: 252+ Atk Donphan Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Tapu Lele: 205-242 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, just because you needed more things to counter. Energy Ball, as you may guess, 2HKOs.
60+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 256-302 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Not much to be said here.
60+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 176-208 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, however 252+ SpA Aegislash- Shield Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 282-332 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. You win, because Psychic Terrain is dope. Yea, that's all the calcs I could think of.
Thank you for reading this, TGC out.
I would disagree that Icium is more common, especially now. Although you do have a point, the more versatile Special Z-Move (Blizzard), the one that most KyuB sturdy-killing sets use (In order to have Earth Power and/or Focus Blast) does this:"Parr0t" said:see this is cool and all but the much more common kyube set (z-ice) just blows this away.
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Tapu Lele: 345-406 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I would disagree that Icium is more common, especially now. Although you do have a point, the more versatile Special Z-Move (Blizzard), the one that most KyuB sturdy-killing sets use (In order to have Earth Power and/or Focus Blast) does this:
252 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 253-298 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
In no way is it more versatile. It does less damage and, as seen in the March 1630 usage stats (which I recommend checking out), was used on less than 3.8% of Kyurem-Black in that month, compared to 43.1% for Freeze Shock (look at this in relation to the 43.5% of Kyurem-Black that used Icium Z). You don't need extra Special Attack investment to kill stuff like Magnezone and Aggron with Earth Power.
There's nothing incredibly wrong with your Tapu Lele set. Rather, I think this sheds some light on the central issue with Kyurem-B. The split in capabilities between Scarf and Icium Z means that serving as a reliable, reasonably offensive check depends on one's ability to live a Scarf Outrage (while not being especially weak to Ice Beam, Fusion Bolt, or Earth Power) while simultaneously outspeeding and OHKOing the fastest possible Icium Z variant. This leaves a select few Pokemon like, offhand, Terrakion, Keldeo, Scarf Porygon-Z with enough bulk to beat Scarf Kyurem-B, Sawk, Mega Metagross (provided you're not facing Groundium Z; the possibility of this set also prevents Magearna from being a 100% counter), etc.
compared to 43.1% for Freeze Shock (look at this in relation to the 43.5% of Kyurem-Black that used Icium Z)
See, the best thing about Blaziken is that it can also learn Fling. Having kings rock and flinging that thing would flinch it,taking care of sturdy mons and then your overheat/blastburn is ready to take out the sturdy monsWell whaddya know. As the person who introduced the possibility of suspecting Blaziken back in February, I figured I should post some more stuff now that we're going in to Blaziken's suspect test.
I feel like the first thing to talk about is why I proposed suspecting Blaziken in the first place and of course why we're suspecting anything at all.
Blaziken
Why a suspect? As many players know already, 1v1 has become sort of bland, and has been so for a long time. Meta dominating threats like Mega Charizard X, Kyurem-Black, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Mawile find themselves on almost every team especially at high ladder play. Even with the introduction of Z moves and new Alolan Pokemon such as Ultra Beasts and Alolan Guardians these pokemon have been extremely dominant. with some other pokemon like Tapu Koko, Crustle, and Donphan rising to take them on. The problem is, most people don't see these pokemon as broken, rather they're just very good and it just makes sense to use them over other pokemon. Because of this many members of the community feel like it's important that we change something, that we break the status-quo we're in now.
Why Blaziken? Blaziken seems like an odd choice at first if we're trying to target current metagame threats. It's strong. It's fast. It's got great dual STAB. So why did I suggest Blaziken? The answer is quite simple. Blaziken is good, but it's not meta-breaking. While it can tackle many pokemon, it can't dominate the majority of the metagame. Blaziken encourages the use of different threats not only as its foes, but also as its teammates. Furthermore, Blaziken isn't like the other top tier pokemon. 1v1 is heavily leaning towards a Bulky Offense style, even typically straight offense pokemon are leaning in Bulky Offense instead. Blaziken isn't like that. Blaziken is all about speed and power primarily. It's not like Mega Gyarados using Intimidate and natural bulk to set up Dragon Dances first. It's not like Kyurem-B, first investing in bulk to make sure it lives to get off its Subzero Slammer.
What happened last generation? I feel like this is important to address because this is not the first time 1v1 is suspecting Blaziken. Last generation, Blaziken was suspected and voted to remain banned by a 50%/50% split. Because of Blaziken's then standing as a banned pokemon, the unban threshold of 60% was not met. If instead, Blaziken was considered a regular unbanned pokemon it would have not been banned. Furthermore, it was tested alongside Mega Salamence and Mega Blaziken, both of which horribly overshadowed standard Blaziken and made it very difficult to get a good assessment of Blaziken. Because of those two reasons, I thought it was important to look at Blaziken again.
Now let's move on to a simple analysis of Blaziken.
Stats: View attachment 81841
A 120 Attack and 110 Special attack are both quite impressive meaning Blaziken can make for a good mixed pokemon, although it will probably lean towards being Physical.
It's bulk is actually pretty meh. 80/70/70 isn't much and Blaziken will surely not be surviving too many strong attacks.It even faints to Mimikyu's Never-Ending Nightmare + Shadow Sneak combo. 80 Speed is good, but we'll get more in to that in a bit. For comparison to some known 1v1 pokemon: Hitmonlee and Donphan have the same attack stat and the same special attack stat as Latias. As for bulk there's no direct comparison, but it's similar to Ludicolo, base Glalie, and Seaking.
Speed tier:
Now an 80 base speed isn't all that good. However, Blaziken's main selling point is that it can trade off a move slot for a free Speed Boost. Effectively giving it a Pseudo-Choice Scarf.
This puts Blaziken with Scarf Togekiss, +1 Dragonite, and right under +1 Mega Gyarados when it runs a neutral speed nature. It's slower than all Base 130 speed pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Mega Gengar. With a positive speed nature, however, it outpaces Adamant Scarf Sawk, Shell Smash Crustle at +2, and those pesky Base 130s. It is still slower than Scarf Porygon Z, Scarf Kyurem-B, Scarf Tapu Lele, Mega Alakazam, and Pheromosa. So yes, after 1 speed boost it's fast, but not too fast. What's important to note, is that Speed Boost accumulates over time with the most important one being the first and second. Against a naturally faster foe, Blaziken will probably protect to try and OHKO the next turn. Against a naturally slower foe, Speed Boost becomes useless. Against a naturally faster foe at +1, Blaziken will probably try to protect twice to get the +2 speed and OHKO on turn 3. This is a 1/3 chance.
Typing: Fire/Fighting typing is practically unknown in 1v1. Emboar is barely ever used as a reckless user, and Infernape usually runs mixed Fake Out. But Fire/Fighting is a great typing, View attachment 81842
No STAB resists and 7 types hit for SE damage is pretty sweet for an offensive pokemon. But with just 1 moveslot left for coverage, there's no way to hit all 11 of those typings easily. And of course there is many dual typings that do resist STABs as well, such as Fire/Flying, Water/Psychic, Water/Fairy, Dragon/Flying and more. Defensively it's alright. Being weak to EQ is painful, but besides that there's not much to say.
Moves: Blaziken has a good movepool to do its job. For STABs it'll run High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz/Overheat/Blast Burn. For coverage it can run Brave Bird, Stone Edge, Thunder Punch, and Earthquake. Utility options are obviously Protect, Endure, and Substitute, but it may also run Swords Dance to surprise walls and Will-o-Wisp to try and surprise physical attackers. Some other nice movepool options are Reversal, Poison Jab, and Hidden Power. Hidden Power Ice was common in the first suspect test to try and beat the dreaded Mega Salamence.
Alright, now that's taken care of what kind of sets should you be running, should you expect to see.
Blaziken @ Life Orb / Firium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge / Thunder Punch / Earthquake
This is the most basic set, and I'd be tempted to argue its best. Z moves are an option but they really hurt your secondary STAB and coverage options, so I recommend using Life Orb. Jolly gives a great speed tier, though Adamant can be used as well. For your coverage option, I recommend Stone Edge to hit Charizard Y, but you can use Thunder Punch to hit Mega Gyarados or Earthquake to hit Tapu Koko.Blaziken @ Life Orb / Fightinium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Protect
- Overheat
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge / Thunder Punch / Earthquake
Overall very similar to the first set, but is a bit more reliant on HJK than Overheat, so Fightinium Z may be preferred. The same choices about Hasty vs Lonely and Stone Edge vs Thunder Punch vs Earthquake are the same as with the first set.
Blaziken @ Firium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Protect
- Blast Burn
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Again, similar to the previous to sets, but this one relies on Z-Blast Burn to nuke the opposing threats. Hasty or Mild will be your options for +speed or neutral speed. Really any hidden power of your choice can be used, HP Ice is here to beat Landorus-T and Garchomp.
Blaziken @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Reversal
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge / High Jump Kick
Probably the most different set you may face. This set tries to use a Liechi Berry + Endure set to get a very powerful Reversal to hit the next turn. It's great for luring in Porygon-Z Hyper Beams and ok at doing everything else.
Now that that's out of the way. Here's what not to run
Blaziken @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Filler
- Filler
With Choice Band you miss out on protect and are too slow to do anything meaningful.
Blaziken @ Firium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Protect
- Focus Blast
- Blast Burn
- Filler
Full special is a mistake, Focus Blast has horrible accuracy and HJK from a less invested attack stat is better.
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz / High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Punch / Earthquake
Not running Dual STAB is a bad idea. Blaziken's Fire/Fighting STAB has great coverage and BP already that doubling down on non-STAB coverage is a waste.
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Endure
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
I'm going to stop this mistake before it happens. While it seems like a great idea to get that +2 speed boost rather than +1 to outspeed every other pokemon in the metagame, it actually doesn't work. Endure only has a 1/3 chance of working after a protect, just like how protect only has a 1/3 chance of working after a protect.
Now, let's talk a bit about Checks and Counters. The thing about Blaziken is that you probably already have a check or counter on your team already.
Sturdy Pokemon: Blaziken can't touch any Sturdy Pokemon. It's best bet is against Crustle, predicting the z-rock, predicting the rock wrecker, and using protect and substitute or just using substitute on a predicted Shell Smash. Either way, it's hard for Blaziken.
Choice Scarf Pokemon: Most Choice Scarf Pokemon like Porygon-Z and Kyurem-B (and Greninja!) can outspeed Blaziken even after its +1 boost. Blaziken is forced to rely on a 1/3 chance for a double protect.
Super Effective Z: Because Z-moves go past Protect, a very strong SE attack can KO Blaziken. Tapu Lele for example can ruin a Blaziken's day. Landorus-T and Tapu Koko can deal a devastating amount of damage even after a protect.
Strong Walls/Resistant Pokemon: Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Mega Slowbro, and Deoxys-D aren't scared off by Blaziken. Or resistant pokemon like Tapu Fini and Primarina can shrug off resisted attacks and just deal a ton of damage back.
Finally, let's talk about some good teammates.
Sturdy-Busters: Mega Gyarados may seem like a good partner pokemon, but both are scared of Sawk and Porygon-Z which are two of the most dangerous checks. So Pokemon like Charm Mega Venusuar, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Mega Medicham, and Mega Blastoise will all be good partners.
Wallbreakers: SubSwords Dance Kartana and Choice Specs Porygon-Z will damage even the bulkiest of walls that your opponent may throw at you.
Really Fast Pokemon: Let the race begin! If you don't want to gamble on beating Choice Scarf Pokemon that beat Blaziken, just go faster. I'm talking about Choice Scarf Greninja, Shell Smash Minior, Choice Scarf Victini. There is no such thing as too fast.
Final thoughts: I've done my best to outline everything you need to know going in to this suspect test. But it's inevitable that I have missed something or even I don't know something! Be creative! Be daring! Learn as much as you can about what Blaziken can do and what it can't do. Try and build several good teams with Blaziken and without Blaziken. When you're laddering try to really understand Blaziken does well and what it doesn't, and ultimately if you think it belongs!
[14:06] lost heros: Say something humorous about how excited you are about this Blaziken Suspect test
[14:06] +Dream Eater Gengar: very chicken
I've noticed that once people realize you're running Fling, they'll start bringing Protect and ruin that strategy. But until then, you're good.See, the best thing about Blaziken is that it can also learn Fling. Having kings rock and flinging that thing would flinch it,taking care of sturdy mons and then your overheat/blastburn is ready to take out the sturdy mons
That should be good. This will mean they waste a moveslot for protect. After seeing some of their matches, we can have a mon based on their moves. XD Sounds legit?I've noticed that once people realize you're running Fling, they'll start bringing Protect and ruin that strategy. But until then, you're good.
Hi, this is your favorite Wrath Of Alakazam. This is my first post, so do bear with my style, but here goes:im reserving this for 1v1 OMs so it can be glued to this ^ sorry for triple posting.
Hi, this is your favorite Wrath Of Alakazam. This is my first post, so do bear with my style, but here goes:
I've been playing the 1v1 meta for about a couple of years (?). I've noticed many players using various versatile tactics to combat and counter other Pokémon and teams. One particular thing has been bothering me from a strategy point of view- the sleep-and-hit strategy. It's simple-just Yawn the opponent and then, Protect/endure, and then the offensive. This strategy has been used since 1v1v itself, and is itself one of the seemingly good consistent way of winning.
The idea of PS! is to provide a platform for competitive battling. There has been innumerable strategies, most of which are very good and competitive. Not sleep! It shifts the tier, meta whatever from a skill- and competitive-based game to merely a luck-based play. So, with the funda of the meta in mind, I strongly call for a complete curtain ban on sleep-inducing moves.
P. S. : I'll edit this post more since I'm moving and typing ATM
There's one real difference between Jirachi and Sleep. With Jirachi, you know exactly what it is in team preview. Not so with sleep. In addition to the Yawn Z-Belly Drum Snorlax, I have also seen Curse Snorlax, Snorlium Z Snorlax, and you have to play against these differently, assuming you don't have a very powerful Fighting type on your team. And with the Relicanth, almost no Mold Breaker mons that are used can OHKO it because of its typing (Except for Scarfed Mold Breaker Sawk, which is actually a pretty good counter to Sleep sets in general, but people opt for Sturdy instead because it's more versatile) until Ampharos-Mega comes out. I do agree with your thought that Jirachi should be banned, but they are not the same thing.On a side note, what diffrentiates these strategies from flinchrachi? Both of them rely on only luck, and though i would not support a ban on sleep moves, if they are banned, jirachi also should be.
I'm again, not the best 1v1 player
A) Run a grass type
I hate type restrictions in teambuilding, so I don't like this option.
B) Run something with over 110 base speed or a choice scarf
As you all know, I prefer a bulky offensive playstyle so this is something that rarely happens naturally on my teams, unless I need to specifically counter Jumpluff which is a bother
C) Use one of various other niche options
We don't talk about Insomnia.
D) Get really really lucky
Thank God I'm good at that
UnleashOurPassion Precisely what I was trying to emphasize.... The whole sleep play makes the 1v1 meta a luck based one, rather than a skill-based one, something I've been trying to emphasize in the thread. And that's why I want it bannedHello, this is the best 1v1 player speaking
Sorry about that, bad joke...
Anyway. My greatest problem in sleep lies with Jumpluff, the source of my annoyance being the need to either:
Hmm I think I'll pick option D which is what many people seem to have to do.
I can't say anything about that being banworthy, I'm just stating my opinions
I do realise that there are counter strategies, and I do use them. But it's not about that. You see, PSong too had counters like soundproof and taunt. Despite these reasons, it was banned for the simple reason that it made the meta incompetent. The same applies to the sleep play; there are counters to check the sleeping, but unfortunately, there are things to counter the counters. The insomnia/vital spirit Pokemon aren't good;you could sub, but jumpluff would still do things to you; you could start taunting but z moves are unaffected by taunt.....In my opinion, the only possible solution according to me would be to ban it.You shouldn't expect to wake up after one turn. Probability management is part of the game. You should prepare for (multiple turns of) sleep like any other strategy. Now if you're arguing that sleep can't be prepared for then that's a different story. But the argument of "luck" is weak.
Edit: As an example, UOP decides to use this strategy where he puts you to sleep turn 1, sets up turn 2, and kills you turn 3. There is a 33% chance that you will wake up after turn 1 and ruin his strategy. UOP knows this, though. He made the decision to run this strategy knowing that there's a chance of failure.
Anyway, I'll say that if this sleep strategy is becoming a thing, then create counter strategies. It's hard to believe that you can't prepare for it as there are several abilities, items, and moves that deal with sleep. If those are not enough, fine, you're free to make a case that sleep moves (or certain Pokémon running them) are broken.
The difference between this and Perish Song is that this isn't overcentralizing in any way. Sleep is indeed something that can be prepared for quite easily and viably but even if you don't, it's not the end of the world because Jumpluff isn't used that much.I do realise that there are counter strategies, and I do use them. But it's not about that. You see, PSong too had counters like soundproof and taunt. Despite these reasons, it was banned for the simple reason that it made the meta incompetent. The same applies to the sleep play; there are counters to check the sleeping, but unfortunately, there are things to counter the counters. The insomnia/vital spirit Pokemon aren't good;you could sub, but jumpluff would still do things to you; you could start taunting but z moves are unaffected by taunt.....In my opinion, the only possible solution according to me would be to ban it.