As a result, both Arcanine and Sandslash have been banned from RBY ZU, receiving 5/8 and 6/8 ban votes respectively.
Slowpoke and Poliwag remain unbanned, receiving 0/8 and 1/8 ban votes respectively.
Thank you to the voters for swift responses!
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Resource ZU Old Gens Hub - [GSC] Quickban Slate @ 359!
- Thread starter wooper
- Start date
As a result, both Arcanine and Sandslash have been banned from RBY ZU, receiving 5/8 and 6/8 ban votes respectively.
Slowpoke and Poliwag remain unbanned, receiving 0/8 and 1/8 ban votes respectively.
Thank you to the voters for swift responses!
GSC ZU OPINIONS, PERSONAL VR, AND TEAMDUMP
My classic run has reached its unfortunate conclusion so I figured I'd post all my thoughts on this wonderful meta I recently got to play in both my successful gambits in GSC ZU Cup and Olympiad.
Overall, I think this meta is amazing, it reminds me a lot of GSC NU, in that it has all the slow-paced mechanics of GSC while remaining fast in tempo. However, I think a lot of the meta is also still in its nascent stage, which is super exciting because that means there's so much room to develop! I wouldn't say the tier needs any sort of tiering action at the moment, and is operating just fine in its current state. Hopefully this post gives people more resources to get into the tier!
Personal Viability Rankings
Many of my VR opinions are animated by boom being the heart and soul of the tier -- not Croconaw/Magby. Because the tier is offensive with offensive pivots to act as defensive options (Croconaw and Togetic), the name of the game is exploding on the right option for your team to make progress and set up your win conditions. When building your team, this should be at the forefront of your mind and should inform all of your decisions when using your boomer(s), of which you should always have one on your teams. The most popular Pokemon in this meta all check each other in a delicate balance of Jenga, so removing the piece that halts your victory leads to the opponent's tower crumbling. For example, you may need to get rid of Togetic for a Bayleef sweep, Tentacool for a Shmoochum sweep, or Bayleef for a Seel sweep -- it's all baits and booms.
Note - For my VR I will be referring to win rates and usage rates from GSC Cup. These are not the end-all-be-all for viability but do help paint a good picture at how a Pokemon may preform in theory versus practice. Many new players may have not used certain Pokemon to great effect but it is something to at least consider!
S Rank:
A+ Rank:
A Rank:
A- Rank:
B+ Rank:
B Rank:
B- Rank:
C+/Not Zu Rank:
C/Untier Rank:
Team Dump
Here are teams and short explanations for them from both Olympiad and Classic, along with replays for how they function. This is a grab-and-go helper, as there is very few variety in accessible teams for those who do not know how to build this tier. I built a lot for these tours, so here they are!
Week 1 vs Innovamania (W) Dratini Balance (bad)
Week 2 vs Hitmonstars (W) Standard Balance
Week 3 vs A Real Jester (W) Double SD Double Ground Offense
Week 4 vs Estarossa (W) Meowth Balance
Week 5 vs Leru (W) Boom Spam
Other Good Teams From GSC Cup
Smoochum Diglett Offense
Meowth HO
My classic run has reached its unfortunate conclusion so I figured I'd post all my thoughts on this wonderful meta I recently got to play in both my successful gambits in GSC ZU Cup and Olympiad.
Overall, I think this meta is amazing, it reminds me a lot of GSC NU, in that it has all the slow-paced mechanics of GSC while remaining fast in tempo. However, I think a lot of the meta is also still in its nascent stage, which is super exciting because that means there's so much room to develop! I wouldn't say the tier needs any sort of tiering action at the moment, and is operating just fine in its current state. Hopefully this post gives people more resources to get into the tier!
Personal Viability Rankings
Many of my VR opinions are animated by boom being the heart and soul of the tier -- not Croconaw/Magby. Because the tier is offensive with offensive pivots to act as defensive options (Croconaw and Togetic), the name of the game is exploding on the right option for your team to make progress and set up your win conditions. When building your team, this should be at the forefront of your mind and should inform all of your decisions when using your boomer(s), of which you should always have one on your teams. The most popular Pokemon in this meta all check each other in a delicate balance of Jenga, so removing the piece that halts your victory leads to the opponent's tower crumbling. For example, you may need to get rid of Togetic for a Bayleef sweep, Tentacool for a Shmoochum sweep, or Bayleef for a Seel sweep -- it's all baits and booms.
Note - For my VR I will be referring to win rates and usage rates from GSC Cup. These are not the end-all-be-all for viability but do help paint a good picture at how a Pokemon may preform in theory versus practice. Many new players may have not used certain Pokemon to great effect but it is something to at least consider!
1. 
Undisputed king of the tier and for good reason. Croc keeps the two most potentially busted Pokemon in the meta -- Magby and Smoochum -- in check due to its great bulk and ability to at least two hit both depending on coverage. Croc's speed tier defines the meta, benchmarking which Pokemon are offensive threats, and which get washed away by its powerful attacks. This thing isn't only a defensive beast however, but also an offensive threat with a wide variety of sets. Including rest talk, the best is probably Rockslide/HPGrass so long as you have adequate Bayleef answers, which shouldn't be hard, and a non-ground weak team. HP allows you to win the Croc MU either with a crit (likely if you're just spamming moves) or three rolls and an outspeed on their restalks. HP also forces opposing Crocs into sleep often for the rest of your team. Other sets in order of my preference are: icebeam/rockslide, icebeam/HPelectric, surf/rockslide, surf/HP electric. Croc can even run curse sets and often functions as a counter-lead into Magby. Overall is the keystone species of the tier.
2.
This is the logical second in the tier and should be on almost every team (as opposed to croc which should be on every team). Fireblast blows holes through the opposing team, doing 25% min to everything in the tier, and its great coverage gives it options. Magby often finds itself in positions of 50/50s where the right attack wins the game, and that's extremely valuable to have. Thief/RestoChesto also gives it the ability to break fat like Croc and Toge which it otherwise may need to get lucky to defeat. It's the second most reliable lead, although it dislikes running into Croc leads.
Undisputed king of the tier and for good reason. Croc keeps the two most potentially busted Pokemon in the meta -- Magby and Smoochum -- in check due to its great bulk and ability to at least two hit both depending on coverage. Croc's speed tier defines the meta, benchmarking which Pokemon are offensive threats, and which get washed away by its powerful attacks. This thing isn't only a defensive beast however, but also an offensive threat with a wide variety of sets. Including rest talk, the best is probably Rockslide/HPGrass so long as you have adequate Bayleef answers, which shouldn't be hard, and a non-ground weak team. HP allows you to win the Croc MU either with a crit (likely if you're just spamming moves) or three rolls and an outspeed on their restalks. HP also forces opposing Crocs into sleep often for the rest of your team. Other sets in order of my preference are: icebeam/rockslide, icebeam/HPelectric, surf/rockslide, surf/HP electric. Croc can even run curse sets and often functions as a counter-lead into Magby. Overall is the keystone species of the tier.2.
This is the logical second in the tier and should be on almost every team (as opposed to croc which should be on every team). Fireblast blows holes through the opposing team, doing 25% min to everything in the tier, and its great coverage gives it options. Magby often finds itself in positions of 50/50s where the right attack wins the game, and that's extremely valuable to have. Thief/RestoChesto also gives it the ability to break fat like Croc and Toge which it otherwise may need to get lucky to defeat. It's the second most reliable lead, although it dislikes running into Croc leads.
3. 
Its amazing special defense allows it to take on any special attacker in the tier and threaten it back with a stab double edge. Its ground immunity is key for the tier and it is the most solid answer to most threats. It can run a cursetalk set that threatens end game sweeps or edge/psychic to catch the poisons off guard, who usually threaten it. As a defensive Pokemon, it isn't as necessary as the S tier, but is hard to justify not using.
Its amazing special defense allows it to take on any special attacker in the tier and threaten it back with a stab double edge. Its ground immunity is key for the tier and it is the most solid answer to most threats. It can run a cursetalk set that threatens end game sweeps or edge/psychic to catch the poisons off guard, who usually threaten it. As a defensive Pokemon, it isn't as necessary as the S tier, but is hard to justify not using.
4.
Spots 4,5,6 are so close but Koffing takes the cake as the tier's most consistent boomer. With free entry into physical attackers like Bayleef and Togetic, Koffing is often in the position to force threatening Pokemon out, throw out some damage, and potentially poison something. Its also great at booming mindgames. It can run thunder to help your Croc MU or painsplit/haze to beat cursetalk Togetic variants. This is a splashable 6th mon on many teams to patch up the holes.
5.
Bayleef forces Croc to show its coverage, which allows you to unlock the most important piece of information in a match and identify your win condition. Its SD sets are Okay, but are easily walled by poisons and has to fish for paras on loop against them. Its defensive role, with synthesis/razorleaf/anytwo of (growl, light screen, leech seed, body slam), is what really lets it shine and makes it a stronger choice than Weepinbell, though. Growl acts as a counter to Togetic similar to Miltank in OU to Snorlax, and slam or screen give u buttons to click when expecting Smoochum doubles.
6.
Onix booms, counters Koffing and Grimer, matches Togetic, threatens 1 hit ko on Croc after sharpen, outspeeds Smooch, ties Tent, and forces so much to run HP Water. It also eats all physical attacks.
7.
SD Bomb is the best breaker in the tier. Nothing threatens to 1 hit it, and as such, it can come out near the end or middle of the match and tear massive holes. Its biggest boon is its stab coverage and the fact that it beats Croc, making it set-up fodder.
8.
Smoochum is mid. Overrated. It's high risk high reward, but it can't take more than two attacks without falling over. It has some nice set gimicks and is tied for the second highest special attack in the tier, but it has so much trouble getting in, requiring doubles that other Pokemon simply don't require. Out of the top 9 Pokemon in usage, it has the lowest win rate at 45% showing how it struggles unless you're willing to make the right risks. When it does get in, however, it's beastly, 3 hit KOing everything in the tier.
9.
Grimer does much of the same as Koffing but is more SpDef oriented, can't match Togetic, and is a strong user of curse. As such, it can be slotted as a lead, winning most MUs besides Butterfree and Nidorino. However, I see it as being used in addition to Koffing a lot of the time, not as a substitute.
Spots 4,5,6 are so close but Koffing takes the cake as the tier's most consistent boomer. With free entry into physical attackers like Bayleef and Togetic, Koffing is often in the position to force threatening Pokemon out, throw out some damage, and potentially poison something. Its also great at booming mindgames. It can run thunder to help your Croc MU or painsplit/haze to beat cursetalk Togetic variants. This is a splashable 6th mon on many teams to patch up the holes.5.
Bayleef forces Croc to show its coverage, which allows you to unlock the most important piece of information in a match and identify your win condition. Its SD sets are Okay, but are easily walled by poisons and has to fish for paras on loop against them. Its defensive role, with synthesis/razorleaf/anytwo of (growl, light screen, leech seed, body slam), is what really lets it shine and makes it a stronger choice than Weepinbell, though. Growl acts as a counter to Togetic similar to Miltank in OU to Snorlax, and slam or screen give u buttons to click when expecting Smoochum doubles.6.
Onix booms, counters Koffing and Grimer, matches Togetic, threatens 1 hit ko on Croc after sharpen, outspeeds Smooch, ties Tent, and forces so much to run HP Water. It also eats all physical attacks.7.
SD Bomb is the best breaker in the tier. Nothing threatens to 1 hit it, and as such, it can come out near the end or middle of the match and tear massive holes. Its biggest boon is its stab coverage and the fact that it beats Croc, making it set-up fodder.8.
Smoochum is mid. Overrated. It's high risk high reward, but it can't take more than two attacks without falling over. It has some nice set gimicks and is tied for the second highest special attack in the tier, but it has so much trouble getting in, requiring doubles that other Pokemon simply don't require. Out of the top 9 Pokemon in usage, it has the lowest win rate at 45% showing how it struggles unless you're willing to make the right risks. When it does get in, however, it's beastly, 3 hit KOing everything in the tier.9.
Grimer does much of the same as Koffing but is more SpDef oriented, can't match Togetic, and is a strong user of curse. As such, it can be slotted as a lead, winning most MUs besides Butterfree and Nidorino. However, I see it as being used in addition to Koffing a lot of the time, not as a substitute.
10.
This can usually come in on a predicted Magby T-Punch, thief Togetic's leftovers, and from there, always be a cleaning threat. Its EQ is very strong, and it has Sludge Bomb for Bayleef. Croc has to even be careful switching into it.
11.
The best lead in the tier. It has no losing MUs, besides maybe leftovers Nidorino and Dratini. Against Magby it outspeeds and 2 hit KOs, allowing you to expect the switch and thief/hypnosis. It thiefs Croc safely. It can sleep or attack Grimer. And it can thief Butterfree, eating its berry on the status, and then sleep the Butterfree back turn 2. Winning all these MUs puts you on the front foot from turn 1, which is critical in an offensive tier. Bubblebeam is also good coverage for Onix. Screech is the other potential option here.
12.
Another scary SD sweeper that comes with sleep, although this one is much worse because Croc outspeeds. It wants sleep and synthesis but just can't fit both. High attacking stats are scary, though, and it can actually do something versus Koffing and Grimer unlike Bayleef.
This can usually come in on a predicted Magby T-Punch, thief Togetic's leftovers, and from there, always be a cleaning threat. Its EQ is very strong, and it has Sludge Bomb for Bayleef. Croc has to even be careful switching into it.11.
The best lead in the tier. It has no losing MUs, besides maybe leftovers Nidorino and Dratini. Against Magby it outspeeds and 2 hit KOs, allowing you to expect the switch and thief/hypnosis. It thiefs Croc safely. It can sleep or attack Grimer. And it can thief Butterfree, eating its berry on the status, and then sleep the Butterfree back turn 2. Winning all these MUs puts you on the front foot from turn 1, which is critical in an offensive tier. Bubblebeam is also good coverage for Onix. Screech is the other potential option here.12.
Another scary SD sweeper that comes with sleep, although this one is much worse because Croc outspeeds. It wants sleep and synthesis but just can't fit both. High attacking stats are scary, though, and it can actually do something versus Koffing and Grimer unlike Bayleef.
These are the last Pokemon you should regularly expect to encounter. They all require some precise building to make work.
13.
Yes, it's strong and a good sweeper with endure/flail, but it needs so much support to get past Croc, Togetic, and Onix that it cannot be in the A ranks.
14.
Solid lead with boltbeam coverage and para to set up certain sweepers. It's also good into Magby lead and can be a nuisance to Croc sometimes. Struggles against most other leads depending on item, though.
15.
Wants 7 moveslots and is kind of slow, but bolt beam coverage is of course nice. Sleep is good but also can run into problems against the common sleep talkers of the tier. I do see it getting better as the lead metagames develops more.
13.
Yes, it's strong and a good sweeper with endure/flail, but it needs so much support to get past Croc, Togetic, and Onix that it cannot be in the A ranks.14.
Solid lead with boltbeam coverage and para to set up certain sweepers. It's also good into Magby lead and can be a nuisance to Croc sometimes. Struggles against most other leads depending on item, though.15.
Wants 7 moveslots and is kind of slow, but bolt beam coverage is of course nice. Sleep is good but also can run into problems against the common sleep talkers of the tier. I do see it getting better as the lead metagames develops more.
Don't use these unless you have good reason.
16.
Complete MU fish. Best stab electric move in a tier with a water as its best mon, but you will lose if you run into any two of grass or ground types, which is likely. Its win rate was also crap, showing its fishiness.
17.
The tier's best cursetalk mono normal, which is kind of weird for GSC, but Togetic's bulk is much better the Teddi's offense, and as such needs to be slotted accordingly. 20% win rate suggests difficulty in application.
18.
Super good. Mono slam cursetalk is so strong. A lot of the times you want another water not weak to psychic/ground like Tentacool in this tier, and seel does that, allowing you to SEEL up end games or have a more consistent switch into Diglett/Smoochum.
19.
Having a second fire type isn't as worth-while as having a second water, but it can work on certain structures. Don't use this in place of Magby, though.
20.
Ivy has stats that differ enough from Weepinbell and Bayleef to make it a consideration, although its really a compromise between the two that doesn't get the best of either worlds.
16.
Complete MU fish. Best stab electric move in a tier with a water as its best mon, but you will lose if you run into any two of grass or ground types, which is likely. Its win rate was also crap, showing its fishiness.17.
The tier's best cursetalk mono normal, which is kind of weird for GSC, but Togetic's bulk is much better the Teddi's offense, and as such needs to be slotted accordingly. 20% win rate suggests difficulty in application.18.
Super good. Mono slam cursetalk is so strong. A lot of the times you want another water not weak to psychic/ground like Tentacool in this tier, and seel does that, allowing you to SEEL up end games or have a more consistent switch into Diglett/Smoochum.19.
Having a second fire type isn't as worth-while as having a second water, but it can work on certain structures. Don't use this in place of Magby, though.20.
Ivy has stats that differ enough from Weepinbell and Bayleef to make it a consideration, although its really a compromise between the two that doesn't get the best of either worlds.
21.
Heal bell gives it a niche over Teddiursa, but it's still hard to work.
22.
Relic of an old meta. Loses to the safest leads, and things run berries to check it. It can fish into good lead MUs on occasion like Nidorino and Grimer, but its unreliable and I wouldn't hedge my bets on it ever, personally.
23.
Its so slow and is weak to all the top mons. You get it in on koffing, Onix, and Grimer, but then what? They switch to water/grass and they get a hit on you. Requires crazy para support and is just so hard to work.
24.
Pass can work but its too inconsistent with booms running around.
25.
Yanma is sort of good. It can threaten the grasses, onix with drain, has thief, and is the fastest mon in the tier. Don't sleep on it, it got me a dub.
26.
Last viable mon. Has some interesting application with its stabs and strong attacks, but is so frail.
Heal bell gives it a niche over Teddiursa, but it's still hard to work.22.
Relic of an old meta. Loses to the safest leads, and things run berries to check it. It can fish into good lead MUs on occasion like Nidorino and Grimer, but its unreliable and I wouldn't hedge my bets on it ever, personally.23.
Its so slow and is weak to all the top mons. You get it in on koffing, Onix, and Grimer, but then what? They switch to water/grass and they get a hit on you. Requires crazy para support and is just so hard to work.24.
Pass can work but its too inconsistent with booms running around.25.
Yanma is sort of good. It can threaten the grasses, onix with drain, has thief, and is the fastest mon in the tier. Don't sleep on it, it got me a dub.26.
Last viable mon. Has some interesting application with its stabs and strong attacks, but is so frail.
These are certainly not ZU-caliber mons but have a niche. Mankey is fast and strong, Phanpy can mono ground curse talk when fliers are blown up, larvitar is a rock type, and Parasect can spore on certain not-too-relevant-mons.
These all may have an extremely tiny niche in the tier or are otherwise outclasses by a similar Pokemon. They should be untiered, as they can realistically do very little better than other ZU Pokemon.
Team Dump
Here are teams and short explanations for them from both Olympiad and Classic, along with replays for how they function. This is a grab-and-go helper, as there is very few variety in accessible teams for those who do not know how to build this tier. I built a lot for these tours, so here they are!
Week 1 vs Innovamania (W) Dratini Balance (bad)
Magby lead fish with Dratini to start softening up the enemy team. Croc is weak to Grasses so Koffing, Magby, Togetic, and Dratini make up for that here. Honestly team seems suboptimal and is probably the worst here because of its weakness to smoochum, but its my first built team. Slide is probably better than HPGrass and thunder over haze on Koffing.
Week 2 vs Hitmonstars (W) Standard Balance
Togetic can catch poisons and Onix off guard with psychic to clear the way for your own poisons. Similar to the team above, but Bayleef has screen to help against Smoochum.
Week 3 vs A Real Jester (W) Double SD Double Ground Offense
Double ground double SD hyper offense that's meant to take down huge threats like Togetic and Bayleef to set up other members. The SD mons help the grounds and the grounds help the SD mons. Need to assess win condition accordingly here to move forward with a game plan.
Week 4 vs Estarossa (W) Meowth Balance
This is standard Meowth balance and the type of team it fits best on. Use double thief here on Croc/Toge/Bay to make slow progress with your Magby. Croc is going to ultimately fish to kill the enemy Croc with HPGrass here. Growl over screens here on Bay is better for Toge if that's a struggle for you.
Week 5 vs Leru (W) Boom Spam
Grimer lead stacks up well in the current meta and allows you to get curse up on turn two when their Magby realizes it has to switch. It's also a great Onix lure. Use your booms on Toge and Bay, neutralize enemy boomers, and sweep with your own Togetic. Boom trading when at a number advantage is also a great way to win and close a game.
Other Good Teams From GSC Cup
Smoochum Diglett Offense
Meowth HO
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DPP ZU Speed Tiers
Here's an update to the DPP ZU Speed Tiers based on this post. It's every Pokemon ranked C+ or higher on the ZU Viability Rankings. I'll update this periodically with relevant creeps, but feel free to just DM me if I've missed anything key (let's not clog the thread).
| Speed | Sprite | Pokémon | Base | Nature | IVs | EVs | Boosts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 634 |  | Yanma | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 590 |  | Seadra | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 578 | | Yanma | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 547 |  | Whiscash | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +3 |
| 541 |  | Persian | 115 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 538 | | Seadra | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 524 |  | Lunatone | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 493 | | Persian | 115 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 492 |  | Fearow | 100 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 492 |  | Slaking | 100 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 480 | | Whiscash | 60 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 478 | | Lunatone | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 475 |  | Diglett | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 475 |  | Grovyle | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 475 |  | Plusle | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 475 | | Yanma | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 459 |  | Golbat | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 459 |  | Vigoroth | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 458 |  | Combusken | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 458 |  | Crawdaunt | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 448 | | Fearow | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 448 | | Slaking | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 446 |  | Huntail | 52 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 441 |  | Girafarig | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 441 | | Seadra | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 441 |  | Stantler | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 441 |  | Staryu | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 438 | | Whiscash | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 436 |  | Shelgon | 50 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 433 | | Diglett | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 433 | | Grovyle | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 433 | | Plusle | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 433 | | Yanma | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 426 |  | Arbok | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 426 |  | Gastly | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 426 |  | Phione | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 418 | | Combusken | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 418 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 418 | | Golbat | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 418 | | Vigoroth | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 409 |  | Beedrill | 75 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 406 | | Huntail | 52 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 402 | | Girafarig | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 402 | | Seadra | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 402 | | Stantler | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 402 | | Staryu | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| Speed | Sprite | Pokémon | Base | Nature | IVs | EVs | Boosts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 398 | | Shelgon | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 397 |  | Bibarel | 71 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 393 |  | Butterfree | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 393 |  | Dewgong | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 393 | | Lunatone | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 393 |  | Luxray | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 393 |  | Mightyena | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 392 |  | Camerupt | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 392 |  | Lairon | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 392 |  | Probopass | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 392 |  | Togetic | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 388 | | Arbok | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 388 | | Gastly | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 388 | | Phione | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 387 |  | Exploud | 68 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 376 |  | Banette | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 376 |  | Chimecho | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 376 |  | Flareon | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 376 |  | Pelipper | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 373 | | Beedrill | 75 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 370 |  | Omanyte | 35 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 361 | | Bibarel | 71 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 361 | | Persian | 115 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 360 | | Persian | 115 | +Speed | 30 | 252 | none |
| 360 |  | Wailord | 60 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 360 | | Whiscash | 60 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Butterfree | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Camerupt | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 358 | | Dewgong | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Lairon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 358 | | Lunatone | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Luxray | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Mightyena | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 358 | | Probopass | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 358 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 352 | | Exploud | 68 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Banette | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Chimecho | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Combusken | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Flareon | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 343 | | Pelipper | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 338 | | Omanyte | 35 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +2 |
| 328 | | Fearow | 100 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 328 | | Slaking | 100 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 328 | | Wailord | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 328 | | Whiscash | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 327 | | Shelgon | 50 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 322 |  | Raticate | 97 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 317 | | Diglett | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 317 | | Grovyle | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 317 | | Plusle | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 317 | | Yanma | 95 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 315 |  | Carnivine | 46 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 313 | | Combusken | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 313 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 306 | | Golbat | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 306 |  | Pikachu | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 306 | | Vigoroth | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| Speed | Sprite | Pokémon | Base | Nature | IVs | EVs | Boosts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 299 | | Fearow | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 299 | | Slaking | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 298 | | Shelgon | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 297 | | Banette | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 297 | | Chimecho | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 297 | | Flareon | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 297 | | Pelipper | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 295 | | Girafarig | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 295 | | Seadra | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 295 | | Stantler | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 295 | | Staryu | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 294 | | Togetic | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 293 | | Raticate | 97 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 289 | | Diglett | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 289 | | Grovyle | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 289 | | Plusle | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 289 | | Yanma | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 287 | | Golbat | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 180 | none |
| 286 | | Carnivine | 46 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 286 | | Girafarig | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 286 | | Seadra | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 286 | | Stantler | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 286 | | Staryu | 85 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 285 | | Diglett | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 236 | none |
| 284 | | Arbok | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 284 | | Gastly | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 284 | | Phione | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 279 | | Golbat | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 279 | | Pikachu | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 273 | | Beedrill | 75 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 269 | | Girafarig | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 269 | | Seadra | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 269 | | Stantler | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 269 | | Staryu | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 268 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | +1 |
| 266 | | Arbok | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 184 | none |
| 266 | | Gastly | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 184 | none |
| 266 | | Golbat | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 104 | none |
| 266 | | Phione | 80 | +Speed | 31 | 184 | none |
| 266 | | Vigoroth | 90 | +Speed | 31 | 104 | none |
| 265 | | Bibarel | 71 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 | | Butterfree | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 | | Dewgong | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 | | Lunatone | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 | | Luxray | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 | | Mightyena | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 262 |  | Vibrava | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 259 | | Arbok | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 259 | | Gastly | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 259 | | Phione | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 258 | | Exploud | 68 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 253 | | Dewgong | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 253 | | Lunatone | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 253 | | Luxray | 70 | +Speed | 31 | 216 | none |
| 251 | | Banette | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 251 | | Chimecho | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 251 | | Flareon | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 251 | | Pelipper | 65 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 249 | | Beedrill | 75 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 241 | | Bibarel | 71 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 240 | | Wailord | 60 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 240 | | Whiscash | 60 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Butterfree | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Dewgong | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Lunatone | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Luxray | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Mightyena | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 239 | | Vibrava | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 236 | | Fearow | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 236 | | Slaking | 100 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 236 |  | Wartortle | 58 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 235 | | Exploud | 68 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 232 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | +2 |
| 229 | | Banette | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 |  | Budew | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 | | Chimecho | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 | | Combusken | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 | | Flareon | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 | | Pelipper | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 229 |  | Swalot | 55 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 226 | | Diglett | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 226 | | Plusle | 95 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 223 | | Huntail | 52 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 219 | | Wailord | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 219 | | Whiscash | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 218 |  | Mawile | 50 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 218 |  | Sableye | 50 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 218 | | Shelgon | 50 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 216 | | Golbat | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 216 | | Vigoroth | 90 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 215 | | Wartortle | 58 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 210 | | Carnivine | 46 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 209 | | Budew | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 209 | | Combusken | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 209 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 209 | | Swalot | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 207 |  | Granbull | 45 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 207 |  | Octillery | 45 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 206 | | Girafarig | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 206 | | Seadra | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 206 | | Stantler | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 206 | | Staryu | 85 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 203 | | Huntail | 52 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| Speed | Sprite | Pokémon | Base | Nature | IVs | EVs | Boosts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 199 | | Mawile | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 199 | | Sableye | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 199 | | Shelgon | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 | | Arbok | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 196 | | Camerupt | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 |  | Kecleon | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 | | Lairon | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 | | Phione | 80 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 196 | | Probopass | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 |  | Porygon | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 196 | | Togetic | 40 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 191 | | Carnivine | 46 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 189 | | Granbull | 45 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 189 | | Octillery | 45 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 186 | | Beedrill | 75 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 185 | | Omanyte | 35 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Camerupt | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Kecleon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Lairon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Porygon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Probopass | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 179 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 178 | | Bibarel | 71 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 176 | | Dewgong | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 176 | | Lunatone | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 176 | | Luxray | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 176 | | Mightyena | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 176 | | Vibrava | 70 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 174 |  | Sudowoodo | 30 | +Speed | 31 | 252 | none |
| 174 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | +1 |
| 172 | | Exploud | 68 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 169 | | Omanyte | 35 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 166 | | Banette | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 166 | | Chimecho | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 166 |  | Dustox | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 166 | | Flareon | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 166 | | Golbat | 90 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 166 | | Pelipper | 65 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 159 | | Sudowoodo | 30 | Neutral | 31 | 252 | none |
| 156 | | Wailord | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 156 | | Whiscash | 60 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 152 | | Wartortle | 58 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 148 | | Phione | 80 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 146 | | Budew | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 146 | | Crawdaunt | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 146 | | Swalot | 55 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 141 |  | Pineco | 15 | +Speed | 31 | 0 | none |
| 140 | | Huntail | 52 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 139 | | Beedrill | 75 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 136 | | Mawile | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 136 | | Sableye | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 136 | | Shelgon | 50 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 130 | | Butterfree | 70 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 130 | | Vibrava | 70 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 128 | | Carnivine | 46 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 126 | | Granbull | 45 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 126 | | Octillery | 45 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 121 | | Chimecho | 65 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 121 | | Dustox | 65 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 121 | | Pelipper | 65 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Camerupt | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 |  | Gloom | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Kecleon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Lairon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Porygon | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Probopass | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 116 | | Togetic | 40 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 108 |  | Grotle | 36 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 108 |  | Wormadam-Sandy | 36 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 108 |  | Wormadam-Trash | 36 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 106 | | Omanyte | 35 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 96 | | Sudowoodo | 30 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
| 94 | | Mawile | 50 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 76 | | Togetic | 40 | -Speed | 0 | 0 | none |
| 66 | | Pineco | 15 | Neutral | 31 | 0 | none |
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ADV-BW MEGAPOST
BW
---> B+/A-
While Vibrava was not used in the first 3 weeks of Olympiad, it went undefeated afterwards, with a 5-0 record. It is the only true counter to every Simisear set, and it resists Lairon's terrifying STAB Head Smash. It is a superb pivot, being able to come in on foes such as Arbok and Lairon, force them out and U-turn into something that beats the incoming Clefairy or Emolga. It does best when paired with a cleric such as Clefairy or Meganium, but can also function well on some offensive builds, such as this one. Lastly, it can run a scarf set utilizing its powerful STAB moves and U-turn with an impressive surprise factor.BW
---> B+/A-
Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 180 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Toxic
Shoutout to Wayward for the set, 16 speed lets you outspeed Adamant Lairon and 60 attack lets you get the 2HKO on CroMuk, which prevents it from taking advantage of you if you fail to crit.
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 180 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Toxic
Shoutout to Wayward for the set, 16 speed lets you outspeed Adamant Lairon and 60 attack lets you get the 2HKO on CroMuk, which prevents it from taking advantage of you if you fail to crit.
---> C+
---> C/C+
Favre (Carvanha) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
Going special on Carv is not something that would necessarily be expected, however the reward of Ice Beam is fabulous, letting you nail Leafeon, while having a 100% accurate way to take down foes such as Hippopotas or Emolga with some chip. Dark Pulse also lets you hit Staryu harder which is fantastic. Also, while missing Hydro Pump is likely a death sentence, it hits harder than Adamant 252 Waterfall.
Favre (Carvanha) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
This set basically trades strength and coverage for strong priority and accuracy. You can run timid to outspeed Persian at +1, however I don't find that necessary, as at +2 you outspeed anyway which means it only matters for the 1v1. It unfortunately does not get Destiny Bond in BW, otherwise it would absolutely be the move of choice over Aqua Jet.
Favre (Carvanha) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 112 Atk / 164 SpA / 232 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
This set gives the great traits of both, while only really sacrificing the MU against Staryu. Crunch lets you hit Meganium, CroMuk and Clefairy harder, while always netting the OHKO on Bulky Grumpig. Ice Beam lets you nail Grasses like Leafeon and hit physical walls like Hippopotas safely for lots of damage. Shoutout to TwentyTwan for the set.
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
Going special on Carv is not something that would necessarily be expected, however the reward of Ice Beam is fabulous, letting you nail Leafeon, while having a 100% accurate way to take down foes such as Hippopotas or Emolga with some chip. Dark Pulse also lets you hit Staryu harder which is fantastic. Also, while missing Hydro Pump is likely a death sentence, it hits harder than Adamant 252 Waterfall.
Favre (Carvanha) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
This set basically trades strength and coverage for strong priority and accuracy. You can run timid to outspeed Persian at +1, however I don't find that necessary, as at +2 you outspeed anyway which means it only matters for the 1v1. It unfortunately does not get Destiny Bond in BW, otherwise it would absolutely be the move of choice over Aqua Jet.
Favre (Carvanha) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 112 Atk / 164 SpA / 232 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
This set gives the great traits of both, while only really sacrificing the MU against Staryu. Crunch lets you hit Meganium, CroMuk and Clefairy harder, while always netting the OHKO on Bulky Grumpig. Ice Beam lets you nail Grasses like Leafeon and hit physical walls like Hippopotas safely for lots of damage. Shoutout to TwentyTwan for the set.
[Gen 5] ZU replay: zause vs. BloodAce - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Carvanha lets Work Up Exploud take down its checks in Clefairy and Meganium before cleaning Staryu and the 3 remaining hydrophobic members with an array of Hydro Pumps.
[Gen 5] ZU replay: zause vs. Monai - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Carvanha claims Lairon early on, despite going down later in the match.
Carvanha lets Work Up Exploud take down its checks in Clefairy and Meganium before cleaning Staryu and the 3 remaining hydrophobic members with an array of Hydro Pumps.
[Gen 5] ZU replay: zause vs. Monai - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Carvanha claims Lairon early on, despite going down later in the match.
DPP
---> High C
Wartortle is a very solid spinner when compared to the other ones in the tier. While it unfortunately is forced to use Rest as its only form of recovery, it has very solid defense and can threaten common spinblockers like Banette and Sableye with Toxic. A good example is skrimps's stall team where it excels at its spinning role. I think it is better than Staryu in the tier above it and overall has a niche deserving of High C. ---> High C
---> Low A
---> High B/Low BADV
to B-
Fairly simple, Nuzleaf should be ran on every Sun team and Onix is B- because of its ability to set sun. Therefore, Nuzleaf should be B- as well. On its own, Nuzleaf is very strong as evidenced by +2 Explosion OHKOing physically defensive Lileep. This lets it open holes for it teammates to break through. to B-
to B-
to C or maybe higher?Poliwag
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Thief
The HP EVs let you always survive Giga Drain from Butterfree. You don't really need 252 speed EVs because Meowth is uncommon and there is nothing between base 90 and base 85 in ADV ZU. Ice Beam obviously lets you hit Grasses, but also lets you hit Flying types more accurately.
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Thief
The HP EVs let you always survive Giga Drain from Butterfree. You don't really need 252 speed EVs because Meowth is uncommon and there is nothing between base 90 and base 85 in ADV ZU. Ice Beam obviously lets you hit Grasses, but also lets you hit Flying types more accurately.
MY TEAMS
BW
Double Ground + Tspikes
I wanted to build around Tspikes in BW despite either Arbok or Muk being on almost every team. I wanted a way to generate momentum on Poison types if they decided to come in which is why I put Graveler and Golett on the team. I chose SubTect Walrein because it makes the matchups against Clefairy better and helps stall with Tspikes. Persian was added for speed control and Psyshock Taunt Grumpig was added to help with opposing GrumpigBW
Double Ground + Tspikes
Leafy Mime + Mag
DPP
Kecleon Fat
I like Kecleon in DPP because it is one of the best answers to the dominant Waters in the tier. It fits better on fatter builds from my experience, so that is the route I decided to take. I put Heal Bell on Chimecho to help cure status on Kecleon, which is one of its bigger weaknesses. I gave Rest to Probopass to give it more longevity. RestTalk Luxray is very nice because it can naturally take a lot of hits due to its massive defenses and Intimidate. Gloom is a part of the team to prevent Whiscash from being a menace, and Persian is there if Gloom gets overwhelmed, as well as to prevent cheesy hazard leads from wrecking havoc. Kecleon Fat
Persian + Diglett
ADV
Lead Poliwag + ToxTect Natu
Numel + Mankey
Thanks for reading!!! I hope you enjoyed it :)
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The Big RBY ZU Retrospective
Despite being a relatively new tier, RBY ZU has had a 2 very different metagames that predate our current landscape. Here I'll have a little retrospective on them, going over the notable Pokemon of each. Note that these are all my opinions, many great players may disagree with them.
Metagame #1: The Arbok/Gastly Meta
Pokemon that are unranked are considered "F"
PAIN INCARNATE. Arbok was a contender for the best Pokemon in the tier, and was very, very broken. A relatively fantastic base Speed combined with Wrap is a recipe for disaster in RBY, though Arbok took it a step further. What made it much worse than something like UU Tentacruel, who's excellent but not at all broken, is Earthquake and Glare. So many top Pokemon, including Arbok itself, were weak to Earthquake, meaning Arbok's speedy Earthquake could sometimes end games without it even needing to Wrap. Glare was an even bigger issue, as generally the best way to handle Wrap users is to use faster Pokemon, but even faster offensive powerhouses such as Pidgeot and Scyther failed to OHKO Arbok, leading to teams needing multiple Arbok checks just to function. You could try using bulky Pokemon to wait until Wrap misses, but even powerful Earthquakes such as Marowak's failed to OHKO, and Arbok could just switch out with little consequence.
The result? Arbok was exceptionally overcentralizing, as teams needed several Pokemon to handle it, though games still often came down to Bok vs. Bok. I hope I emphasized how absurdly good Arbok was here, as the meta revolved around it, and teams that didn't excessively prepare for it got lampooned. And worse yet, it was a total rngfest. Remember Wrap only has just as much Accuracy as Fire Blast. Glare is even worse, having only 75% accuracy. Arbok can, and absolutely has, completely dominated teams with Wrap. However, I've seen plenty of games where it just missed Wrap twice and died. It still almost always made huge progress against the opposing team, but the fact that your success was determined by how many times you can chain Crabhammer in a row did not bode well for the meta. Dropping Arbok wasn't really an option either- it's like trying to ride a bicycle without wheels- you just couldn't do that here.
Fortunately, Arbok's place in the metagame is in a much more balanced place post-drops, though I'll get into that more later.
The result? Arbok was exceptionally overcentralizing, as teams needed several Pokemon to handle it, though games still often came down to Bok vs. Bok. I hope I emphasized how absurdly good Arbok was here, as the meta revolved around it, and teams that didn't excessively prepare for it got lampooned. And worse yet, it was a total rngfest. Remember Wrap only has just as much Accuracy as Fire Blast. Glare is even worse, having only 75% accuracy. Arbok can, and absolutely has, completely dominated teams with Wrap. However, I've seen plenty of games where it just missed Wrap twice and died. It still almost always made huge progress against the opposing team, but the fact that your success was determined by how many times you can chain Crabhammer in a row did not bode well for the meta. Dropping Arbok wasn't really an option either- it's like trying to ride a bicycle without wheels- you just couldn't do that here.
Fortunately, Arbok's place in the metagame is in a much more balanced place post-drops, though I'll get into that more later.
What made Gastly broken, perhaps even more so than Arbok, is that while the snake was unreasonably hard to prepare for, Gastly was pretty much impossible to build against. An unresisted Psychic coming off its base 100 Special left a mark on every threat in the metagame, while its high base 80 Speed meant it reached the same important benchmarks as the Wrap God. Even threats that could somewhat switch in, such as Flareon and Marowak, had the tendency to get worn down or sometimes just ceased to be an issue once Gastly got a Special drop and/or crit. And to make things worse, Gastly was the fastest Sleeper in the tier. It already had so few checks but it could also just flip a coin with Hypnosis and declare its check as good as dead.
And to make things even worse somehow, for something so frail it also was ridiculously hard to out-offense. Scyther and Pidgeot have very few options to deal with Gastly due to their awful coverage. Some of our top offensive threats were often walled by a mon with 30/30 physical bulk. Meanwhile, Primeape could only 3HKO with Rock Slide, and is 2HKOed in return by Psychic. Worse yet, since Gastly Speed ties Arbok, neither ever wants to face the other. Our broken threats didn't even have the courtesy to handle each other, which didn't bode well for teambuilding as you not only needed to use Arbok and Gastly, but try to stack numerous answers to each at the same time.
Ultimately, was Gastly broken? YES. Its combination of powerful Psychic, high Speed, and Hypnosis made it impossible to reliably deal with, and often made matches into slot machines.
And to make things even worse somehow, for something so frail it also was ridiculously hard to out-offense. Scyther and Pidgeot have very few options to deal with Gastly due to their awful coverage. Some of our top offensive threats were often walled by a mon with 30/30 physical bulk. Meanwhile, Primeape could only 3HKO with Rock Slide, and is 2HKOed in return by Psychic. Worse yet, since Gastly Speed ties Arbok, neither ever wants to face the other. Our broken threats didn't even have the courtesy to handle each other, which didn't bode well for teambuilding as you not only needed to use Arbok and Gastly, but try to stack numerous answers to each at the same time.
Ultimately, was Gastly broken? YES. Its combination of powerful Psychic, high Speed, and Hypnosis made it impossible to reliably deal with, and often made matches into slot machines.
Onix may seem underwhelming at first, but what made it so excellent was just how well it fit into the meta. Scyther and Pidgeot were absurdly scary threats that ripped apart teams that didn't adequately prepare for them. Gastly could switch in to their largely mono-Normal coverage, but they both had the tools to break through Gastly if they predicted properly.
Enter Onix, who's titanic defense stat and Rock-typing made it the perfect counter to them. Not even Scyther's boosted Hyper Beam or Pidgeot's Sky Attack could leave much of a dent on it. And what set Onix apart from other Normal switch-ins, even Gastly, was Bind, allowing it to 180 offensive momentum. And Onix wasn't just limited to fighting off the Birds. Bind has good utility versus everything slower than it, while a STAB Earthquake and Explosion let Onix threaten a huge amount of the tier. Thus, despite its base 45 Attack, Onix was actually quite difficult to switch into a lot of the time.
Onix had obvious flaws, however. Onix's absurdly low special bulk meant that most special attacks, including Flareon's resisted Fire Blast, easily 2HKOed, while any Grass-, Water-, or Ice-type attack could mangle Onix beyond repair. It's role a physical wall was also put into question given its weakness to its own move, Earthquake. In addition to all this it's essential to remember that Bind has worse Accuracy than even Wrap, meaning Onix often had to put it's life on a move with just as much Accuracy as Thunder.
Overall, Onix had a laundry list of defensive faults, and hit like a wet paper towel, but the roles it did do well were meta defining. It's really hard to explain, but on a game-to-game basis Onix almost always made and enabled fantastic progress while denying the opponent the ability to make their own.
Enter Onix, who's titanic defense stat and Rock-typing made it the perfect counter to them. Not even Scyther's boosted Hyper Beam or Pidgeot's Sky Attack could leave much of a dent on it. And what set Onix apart from other Normal switch-ins, even Gastly, was Bind, allowing it to 180 offensive momentum. And Onix wasn't just limited to fighting off the Birds. Bind has good utility versus everything slower than it, while a STAB Earthquake and Explosion let Onix threaten a huge amount of the tier. Thus, despite its base 45 Attack, Onix was actually quite difficult to switch into a lot of the time.
Onix had obvious flaws, however. Onix's absurdly low special bulk meant that most special attacks, including Flareon's resisted Fire Blast, easily 2HKOed, while any Grass-, Water-, or Ice-type attack could mangle Onix beyond repair. It's role a physical wall was also put into question given its weakness to its own move, Earthquake. In addition to all this it's essential to remember that Bind has worse Accuracy than even Wrap, meaning Onix often had to put it's life on a move with just as much Accuracy as Thunder.
Overall, Onix had a laundry list of defensive faults, and hit like a wet paper towel, but the roles it did do well were meta defining. It's really hard to explain, but on a game-to-game basis Onix almost always made and enabled fantastic progress while denying the opponent the ability to make their own.
Easily the most hyped Pokemon in the original post, I and a lot of people initially thought the tier would be dominated by Flareon's nuclear Fire Blasts. While a certain snake and gas ball took the throne at #1, Flareon still remained an excellent wallbreaker.
Don't worry about another essay on how this Pokemon works, Flareon is pretty self-explanatory. Click Fire Blast to kill neutral targets and Onix, and use Body Slam and Hyper Beam to hit everything else. Flareon's great Special also made it the tier's best check to Gastly after Sleep was used, even if it wasn't that consistent at it due to Psychic Special drops.
Flareon had 2 big weaknesses, those being its mediocre physical bulk and Speed. As I stated, Earthquake is everywhere here, and while Flareon was a big reason as to why it was so common, it also meant teams rarely had a shortage of Pokemon that could offensively check it. Worse yet, Flareon's low Speed meant it had to take a hit from the majority of the tier before it could hit back. These two flaws made Flareon as much high risk as it was reward, as you needed to budget its health as carefully as possible as to not waste 1/6th of your team. There was also the issue of Kabuto, who did wall Flareon pretty well, though it had its own flaws.
Overall, Flareon was a thoroughly excellent Pokemon, and while it had clear problems, it made up for it with pure firepower. Unlike Arbok or Gastly, who were broken, or Onix, who is more of a reaction to metagame trends, Flareon defined those metagame trends while being quite balanced in its own right.
Don't worry about another essay on how this Pokemon works, Flareon is pretty self-explanatory. Click Fire Blast to kill neutral targets and Onix, and use Body Slam and Hyper Beam to hit everything else. Flareon's great Special also made it the tier's best check to Gastly after Sleep was used, even if it wasn't that consistent at it due to Psychic Special drops.
Flareon had 2 big weaknesses, those being its mediocre physical bulk and Speed. As I stated, Earthquake is everywhere here, and while Flareon was a big reason as to why it was so common, it also meant teams rarely had a shortage of Pokemon that could offensively check it. Worse yet, Flareon's low Speed meant it had to take a hit from the majority of the tier before it could hit back. These two flaws made Flareon as much high risk as it was reward, as you needed to budget its health as carefully as possible as to not waste 1/6th of your team. There was also the issue of Kabuto, who did wall Flareon pretty well, though it had its own flaws.
Overall, Flareon was a thoroughly excellent Pokemon, and while it had clear problems, it made up for it with pure firepower. Unlike Arbok or Gastly, who were broken, or Onix, who is more of a reaction to metagame trends, Flareon defined those metagame trends while being quite balanced in its own right.
Primeape was the most consistent Pokemon of Old ZU, being almost always useful no matter the matchup. Its phenomenal base 95 Speed let it act as a fantastic revenge killer, allowing it to get the jump on the entire tier barring Scyther. Its high attack made Submission and Hyper Beam quite effective at dealing damage, while Body Slam made it a very effective spreader of paralysis. Its Rock Slide was also crucial, slamming Scyther and Pidgeot while also threatening Gastly's paper-thin bulk. And its bulk, while mediocre, still let it check threats such as Diglett and Onix pretty effectively. All these factors made Primeape a solid lead, capable of demolishing Diglett, Pikachu, and Butterfree, threatening Arbok with paralysis, and at the same time still making good progress against Parasect and Gastly.
Primeape had two big flaws, however. It does not get Earthquake in Gen 1, so struggling to break through Poison-types was a big issue. However, this wasn't the end of the world, as Body Slam made good progress against everything not named Gastly, who as stated hated Rock Slide. Arguably the bigger issue is that while Primeape had no big flaws, besides its nothing it has is that great either. With only usable bulk and damage output, it struggled to stand out in a meta with threats such as Arbok and its Glare + Wrap or Flareon and its 130/110 offensive stats. Primeape was really great, but being only great in an absolutely cracked metagame held it back.
Primeape had two big flaws, however. It does not get Earthquake in Gen 1, so struggling to break through Poison-types was a big issue. However, this wasn't the end of the world, as Body Slam made good progress against everything not named Gastly, who as stated hated Rock Slide. Arguably the bigger issue is that while Primeape had no big flaws, besides its nothing it has is that great either. With only usable bulk and damage output, it struggled to stand out in a meta with threats such as Arbok and its Glare + Wrap or Flareon and its 130/110 offensive stats. Primeape was really great, but being only great in an absolutely cracked metagame held it back.
I never expected Diglett to be a top threat in any tier without Arena Trap, but it had just the right combination of traits to be excellent in the Arbok/Gastly Meta. A blistering fast base 95 Speed combined with STAB EQ threatened numerous top threats, with it notably outspeeding and OHKOing Gastly. While most other Ground-weak threats were 2HKOed, they were never safe due to Diglett's high crit rate. This meant that teams needed to prepare for it, or else they'd be easily cleaned. Diglett was also a fantastic lead, as its ability to force out common leads such Gastly and Arbok, which made staring games behind a Substitute very easy.
There's of course the elephant in the room, that being Diglett's horrendous bulk. It was 1-2HKOed by nearly every attack in the tier, meaning it often had to play a hit and run strategy and have its teammates take the blows it cannot, in a tier that really struggled with longevity. Additionally, Diglett's attack was still very low, and thus its Earthquake struggled to 3HKO neutral targets such as Primeape, while its Rock Slide only 4HKOed most Rock-weak threats such as Pidgeot. Parasect notably ate it alive, and often made Diglett a liability for its team.
While Diglett did have shortcomings, I put it above many other fantastic physical attackers in A rank simply due to how dangerous it is. Teams needed to respect its presence almost as much as Gastly and Arbok, and even then it was very capable of cleaning teams once its checks were removed. It was very high risk, but the reward was just as worth it.
There's of course the elephant in the room, that being Diglett's horrendous bulk. It was 1-2HKOed by nearly every attack in the tier, meaning it often had to play a hit and run strategy and have its teammates take the blows it cannot, in a tier that really struggled with longevity. Additionally, Diglett's attack was still very low, and thus its Earthquake struggled to 3HKO neutral targets such as Primeape, while its Rock Slide only 4HKOed most Rock-weak threats such as Pidgeot. Parasect notably ate it alive, and often made Diglett a liability for its team.
While Diglett did have shortcomings, I put it above many other fantastic physical attackers in A rank simply due to how dangerous it is. Teams needed to respect its presence almost as much as Gastly and Arbok, and even then it was very capable of cleaning teams once its checks were removed. It was very high risk, but the reward was just as worth it.
I’ve combined their sections, as while they have very notable differences, Scyther and Pidgeot functioned similarly as fast and powerful "Normal"-type attackers, with a notable immunity to Earthquake.
Scyther's base 105 Speed made it the fastest Pokemon in The Arbok/Gastly Meta, outspeeding even other speed demons such as Primeape and Diglett. Slash was one of the most powerful unboosted moves in the tier, while Scyther could augment its power to absurd levels with Swords Dance and Hyper Beam. And Scyther wasn't slacking off in the bulk department either, as it could still tank hits such as Primeape's quad-super effective Rock Slide, and use the opportunity to set up and sweep teams.
Pidgeot is a tad bit slower, losing out on outspeeding the aforementioned base 95 duo, but its Speed tier was still excellent, crucially still outspeeding Arbok. What Pidgeot had over Scyther was much higher Special bulk, a lack of a Fire weakness, and a lack of a Rock double-weakness, giving players much more flexibility on how they handled threats such as Diglett. Pidgeot also possessed a more powerful Hyper Beam when unboosted.
However, as mentioned before, these threats do have a very crippling flaw, that being their absolutely horrid coverage. Limited to only Normal- and bad Flying-type moves, Scyther and Pidgeot simply lacked good means to break through Rock-types and Gastly. Onix being excellent was partly a testament to how amazing these threats were, but it when it hit the field it often completely shut them down.
However, the Birds did have a few ways to get past their counters. Onix is vulnerable to Toxic, while Gastly had awful physical bulk, leaving it OHKOed by Pidgeot's Sky Attack and 2HKOed by Scyther's Wing Attack at +2. None of these options were particularly great, especially since Rock Slide and Thunderbolt do big damage, but it goes to show how the Birds weren't completely helpless against their bad mus, as horrible as they were.
Overall, I slightly favored Scyther and an end-game cleaner due to the all-or-nothing nature of Swords Dance and its weaknesses, while I favored Pidgeot as a mid-game wallbreaker due to its better defensive utility, though they both were great at both roles. While I can't decide on which to put ahead, it's clear that they both were excellent threats in the old meta.
Scyther's base 105 Speed made it the fastest Pokemon in The Arbok/Gastly Meta, outspeeding even other speed demons such as Primeape and Diglett. Slash was one of the most powerful unboosted moves in the tier, while Scyther could augment its power to absurd levels with Swords Dance and Hyper Beam. And Scyther wasn't slacking off in the bulk department either, as it could still tank hits such as Primeape's quad-super effective Rock Slide, and use the opportunity to set up and sweep teams.
Pidgeot is a tad bit slower, losing out on outspeeding the aforementioned base 95 duo, but its Speed tier was still excellent, crucially still outspeeding Arbok. What Pidgeot had over Scyther was much higher Special bulk, a lack of a Fire weakness, and a lack of a Rock double-weakness, giving players much more flexibility on how they handled threats such as Diglett. Pidgeot also possessed a more powerful Hyper Beam when unboosted.
However, as mentioned before, these threats do have a very crippling flaw, that being their absolutely horrid coverage. Limited to only Normal- and bad Flying-type moves, Scyther and Pidgeot simply lacked good means to break through Rock-types and Gastly. Onix being excellent was partly a testament to how amazing these threats were, but it when it hit the field it often completely shut them down.
However, the Birds did have a few ways to get past their counters. Onix is vulnerable to Toxic, while Gastly had awful physical bulk, leaving it OHKOed by Pidgeot's Sky Attack and 2HKOed by Scyther's Wing Attack at +2. None of these options were particularly great, especially since Rock Slide and Thunderbolt do big damage, but it goes to show how the Birds weren't completely helpless against their bad mus, as horrible as they were.
Overall, I slightly favored Scyther and an end-game cleaner due to the all-or-nothing nature of Swords Dance and its weaknesses, while I favored Pidgeot as a mid-game wallbreaker due to its better defensive utility, though they both were great at both roles. While I can't decide on which to put ahead, it's clear that they both were excellent threats in the old meta.
Every team needed a bulky Earthquake switch-in, and the Birds-types were mediocre in this role due to their Rock weakness and the fact that they couldn't hurt one of its premier users, Onix. Enter Marowak, who's high physical bulk and attack made it the perfect answer to Earthquake spam. Diglett, Onix, and even to some extent Arbok struggled to break through Marowak, and while the latter 2 could Wrap/Bind it, Marowak still easily forced them out. Additionally, Marowak itself was one of the best Earthquake users in the tier, OHKOing Gastly while other threats such as Arbok and Flareon were eliminated after the slightest chip. While for some reason Marowak does not get Rock Slide this generation, but Blizzard was more than enough to threaten the Birds, while Fire Blast roasted Parasect.
However, despite these good traits, Marowak was still deeply flawed. Its low Speed made it quite easy to play around, while defensively this meant it'd almost always be taking a hit before it could retaliate. It was also very susceptible to being worn down, as the numerous Earthquakes in the tier did minimal damage but added up quickly.
However, ultimately you just couldn't get away with not having an Earthquake switch-in in this tier, and while Marowak had flaws, it was arguably the most consistent switch-in to the best move, period.
However, despite these good traits, Marowak was still deeply flawed. Its low Speed made it quite easy to play around, while defensively this meant it'd almost always be taking a hit before it could retaliate. It was also very susceptible to being worn down, as the numerous Earthquakes in the tier did minimal damage but added up quickly.
However, ultimately you just couldn't get away with not having an Earthquake switch-in in this tier, and while Marowak had flaws, it was arguably the most consistent switch-in to the best move, period.
While Marowak was a great Earthquake switch-in, if there was anything that struck fear into the hearts of its users, it'd be this weird mushroom Bug. With titanic bulk and an Earthquake double-resistance, it easily switched into threats such as Onix and Arbok and forced them out with its dual Spore combo, something that let it threaten Gastly despite its terrible Normal/Mega Drain coverage. Teams relying on Digett in particular needed to watch out, as Parasect completely dominated it.
Despite its horrid Speed, Parasect was actually a pretty ok lead, as it destroyed Diglett, Primeape, and Pikachu, possessed a ~15% chance to win against Arbok, who could do nothing but Wrap out, and it still had a ~40% chance to successfully Spore Gastly. The only thing that really destroyed it are opposing Sleep leads with decently accurate Sleep moves, notably Butterfree and Weepinbell, but those were noticeably niche.
However, there's a reason why a Pokemon with decent stats and a 99.6% accurate Sleep move ended up here.
Its awful Speed meant that much of the tier had an out against it, and while partial-trapping and Sleep moves aren't amazingly accurate, they still worked a majority of the time and gave threats such as Arbok, Gastly, and Onix a reliable enough way to mitigate Parasect's effectiveness. Worse yet, while an Earthquake double-resistance was amazing, a Bug/Grass typing left a ton to be desired. Parasect was absolutely demolished by Flareon, who could easily come thanks to Bind/Wrap, and force players to choose between discarding Parasect or have a teammate take heavy damage. Kabuto somewhat mitigated this, though it has its own flaws I'll get into in its section. This also means that Marowak, a prominent Earthquake user, easily defeated it with its Fire Blast.
Furthermore, while not as severe, its Flying double weakness further added to its woes, allowing Scyther and Pidgeot's generally weak Wing Attack to OHKO it off a crit or at +2 in the former's case. Additionally, while its Rock weakness generally didn't prevent it from checking Diglett and Primeape, a Rock Slide crit still usually did over half. Finally, its poor coverage meant that once Sleep Clause was active, it was forced to either sacrifice itself or have a teammate deal with Gastly if faced with it. While this isn't the end of the world, as Gastly does not want to get paralyzed, but Parasect easily lost endgames to Gastly as a result.
I know I said like 3 good things about Parasect and then went on an essay to explain all its flaws, but on a game-to-game basis it does its job consistently enough, and a 99.6% accurate Sleep move is no joke in RBY. Parasect was genuinely great, if flawed.
Despite its horrid Speed, Parasect was actually a pretty ok lead, as it destroyed Diglett, Primeape, and Pikachu, possessed a ~15% chance to win against Arbok, who could do nothing but Wrap out, and it still had a ~40% chance to successfully Spore Gastly. The only thing that really destroyed it are opposing Sleep leads with decently accurate Sleep moves, notably Butterfree and Weepinbell, but those were noticeably niche.
However, there's a reason why a Pokemon with decent stats and a 99.6% accurate Sleep move ended up here.
Its awful Speed meant that much of the tier had an out against it, and while partial-trapping and Sleep moves aren't amazingly accurate, they still worked a majority of the time and gave threats such as Arbok, Gastly, and Onix a reliable enough way to mitigate Parasect's effectiveness. Worse yet, while an Earthquake double-resistance was amazing, a Bug/Grass typing left a ton to be desired. Parasect was absolutely demolished by Flareon, who could easily come thanks to Bind/Wrap, and force players to choose between discarding Parasect or have a teammate take heavy damage. Kabuto somewhat mitigated this, though it has its own flaws I'll get into in its section. This also means that Marowak, a prominent Earthquake user, easily defeated it with its Fire Blast.
Furthermore, while not as severe, its Flying double weakness further added to its woes, allowing Scyther and Pidgeot's generally weak Wing Attack to OHKO it off a crit or at +2 in the former's case. Additionally, while its Rock weakness generally didn't prevent it from checking Diglett and Primeape, a Rock Slide crit still usually did over half. Finally, its poor coverage meant that once Sleep Clause was active, it was forced to either sacrifice itself or have a teammate deal with Gastly if faced with it. While this isn't the end of the world, as Gastly does not want to get paralyzed, but Parasect easily lost endgames to Gastly as a result.
I know I said like 3 good things about Parasect and then went on an essay to explain all its flaws, but on a game-to-game basis it does its job consistently enough, and a 99.6% accurate Sleep move is no joke in RBY. Parasect was genuinely great, if flawed.
70 Speed and access to Sleep Powder and Stun Spore made Butterfree a decent lead, with it able to beat slower Sleepers, Diglett, and Pikachu. Additionally, while it didn't hit super hard, its unresisted Psychic could still make some progress against the opposing team.
Butterfree's biggest problem was that it struggled to differentiate itself from other Sleepers. Gastly was far more offensively threatening and faster. Parasect's bulk and typing gave it some fantastic matchups. It was just really hard to justify Butterfree, who just hit a mediocre midground. Butterfree also was largely a defensive sink, with its weakness to Electric, Rock, and Fire making it lose most 1v1s without Sleep, and while it always had access to Stun Spore, teams generally wanted something that could do much more. Butterfree was a solid lead, but was largely bad to useless beyond that.
Butterfree's biggest problem was that it struggled to differentiate itself from other Sleepers. Gastly was far more offensively threatening and faster. Parasect's bulk and typing gave it some fantastic matchups. It was just really hard to justify Butterfree, who just hit a mediocre midground. Butterfree also was largely a defensive sink, with its weakness to Electric, Rock, and Fire making it lose most 1v1s without Sleep, and while it always had access to Stun Spore, teams generally wanted something that could do much more. Butterfree was a solid lead, but was largely bad to useless beyond that.
Remember, there're no held items in RBY, so Pikachu is stuck with its abysmal 50 base Special. Pikachu's real claim to fame was its base 90 Speed combined with Thunder Wave, which allowed it to paralyze Arbok and Gastly, which could sometimes win games on the spot, even if Pikachu died immediately afterwards. Thunder Wave was complimented by Surf, which demolished Onix and still took a meaty chunk out of Marowak's HP. These traits made Pikachu a solid lead, capable of scaring off two of the most dominant leads, though it lost to Diglett and most sleepers.
However, besides Pikachu's terrible defensive profile, as it had terrible bulk and a Ground-weakness, Pikachu also had a terrible offensive presence. Even frailer threats such as Primeape took minimal damage from its attacks, something which made Pikachu little more than its Thunder Wave. Additionally, Grass-types stonewalled Pikachu, making it quite easy to check.
The fact that Pikachu was good is more a testament to how absurd Abrok and Gastly were, to the point where something with pretty few other redeeming qualities had a decent niche in the tier, though this still doesn't detract from the fact that Pikachu was usable, if one-note.
However, besides Pikachu's terrible defensive profile, as it had terrible bulk and a Ground-weakness, Pikachu also had a terrible offensive presence. Even frailer threats such as Primeape took minimal damage from its attacks, something which made Pikachu little more than its Thunder Wave. Additionally, Grass-types stonewalled Pikachu, making it quite easy to check.
The fact that Pikachu was good is more a testament to how absurd Abrok and Gastly were, to the point where something with pretty few other redeeming qualities had a decent niche in the tier, though this still doesn't detract from the fact that Pikachu was usable, if one-note.
Kabuto's unique Rock/Water-typing let it wall Flareon, while being a Rock-type also made it a pretty good check to Scyther and Pidgeot.
The issue for Kabuto was everything else. Chief among them was Gastly, something that didn't mind any of Kabuto's moves and something that players absolutely don't want switching in so easily. Other threats such as Arbok and Primeape didn't mind Kabuto much as well, and they could easily overwhelm it. To make matters worse, Kabuto wasn't even that great at checking Flareon and the Birds. Their attacks still did around 20-25%, leaving Kabuto very susceptible to being worn down, and while it could heal with Rest, those Sleep turns would just make it even more passive.
The primary use I found for Kabuto was as a partner to Parasect, as who appreciates Kabuto mitigating its worst matchups, while in return Parasect effectively gets a free KO with Spore and the ability to check many of Kabuto's bad mus, though this leaves teams even more vulnerable to Gastly. Overall, like Flareon, Kabuto didn't live up to the hype of the original post, but it was still pretty viable.
The issue for Kabuto was everything else. Chief among them was Gastly, something that didn't mind any of Kabuto's moves and something that players absolutely don't want switching in so easily. Other threats such as Arbok and Primeape didn't mind Kabuto much as well, and they could easily overwhelm it. To make matters worse, Kabuto wasn't even that great at checking Flareon and the Birds. Their attacks still did around 20-25%, leaving Kabuto very susceptible to being worn down, and while it could heal with Rest, those Sleep turns would just make it even more passive.
The primary use I found for Kabuto was as a partner to Parasect, as who appreciates Kabuto mitigating its worst matchups, while in return Parasect effectively gets a free KO with Spore and the ability to check many of Kabuto's bad mus, though this leaves teams even more vulnerable to Gastly. Overall, like Flareon, Kabuto didn't live up to the hype of the original post, but it was still pretty viable.
The Lightning Round:
I've talked about all the threats I believe deserve an in-depth explanation, though there are still a good amount of Pokemon that had solid niches worth talking about.
- I combined their sections as Muk and Weezing have very similar traits. Both are slow but bulky Poison-types with good elemental coverage and Explosion. Weezing has generally better stats, notably in its Defense and Special, while Muk had a stronger Explosion and wasn't stonewalled by Onix. They were usable, particularly as Primeape counters, but their low Speed made them hard to justify using especially when two other Poison-types were already mandatory. - Water was the most difficult type to switch into in Old ZU, as a result of the meta being so centralized and a general lack of bulky waters. Tentacool's massive 100 Special made it absurdly hard to switch into, especially when it also packed Blizzard to hit Grass-types and Wrap to pivot. However, it's terrible physical bulk combined with its Poison-typing stacked another Earthquake weakness on teams, and its mediocre Speed left it very vulnerable to threats such as Arbok and Diglett.
- Magneton's enormous base 120 Special was severely held back by its awful movepool. Its Electric/Double-Edge coverage left it struggling to make meaningful progress against Onix and Marowak, and at the same time it couldn't do much to the tier's Grass-types either. It also stacked another Ground weakness with mediocre Speed, much like Tentacool. Magneton's best trait was its ability to bait in Onix and Marowak and then Toxic them, as while other threats could do this, few could force them in as well as Magneton.Without any opposing Grass- or Ground-types, Magneton's huge Special and access to Thunder Wave made it a difficult threat for neutral targets to switch into, traits which also made it a fantastic Gastly check. It's a shame, if it had a better movepool Magneton would've probably have been a top-tier threat.
- While Horsea lacks the sheer firepower and Wrap Tentacool possessed, it made up for it with access to Agility, making it a very dangerous cleaner given that it wasn't that hard to get targets into its Hydro Pump range. However, its low stats made it quite useless for most other roles. - Weepinbell was largely outclassed by Parasect as a dual-status Grass type due to Parasect's amazing Ground double resistance and sheer bulk. However, Weepinbell's access to Razor Leaf and Wrap gave it a better offensive presence, and it could still act as a backup check to threats such as Diglett and Primeape.
- Hitmonlee was outclassed by Primeape, as its higher attack and actually good Fighting STAB fell flat compared to due horrid bulk, lack of Rock Slide, and lower Speed. Hitmonlee was decent on builds utilizing both however, as they worked well in weakening each other's checks.
- Lickitung possessed a phenomenal moveset, complete fantastic tools such as Wrap, Swords Dance, Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Blizzard, and Fire Blast (but not Lick lol). The fundamental issue is that Lickitung struggled to use any of its positive traits when almost the entire tier outsped it and thus could Wrap, Sleep, or do any number of things to Lickitung before it could even more. This fact also made it a fairly bad Wrap pivot. Lickitung needed practically the entire opposing team to be paralyzed before it could unleash its full potential, and while a well-played Lickitung could beat any Arbok, the support it required was massive.
- Machoke acted as a reasonably bulky tank with access to Fighting STAB, Earthquake, and Submission. However, it was largely outclassed by Marowak, who just had better stats and lacked a Psychic weakness, which made Marowak have a much better matchup against Gastly. Machoke could be used alongside Marowak, but it was very hard to justify using 2 similar Pokemon that were so slow at the same time.
- Rhyhorn countered Scyther and Pidgeot just as hard as Onix and its high attack was capable of making much more progress on its own, though the metagame generally prefered Onix's Speed and Bind significantly more. - AgiliWrap, Thunder Wave, and BoltBeam gave Dratini a plethora of great options, but its low stats, notably its unboosted Speed, made it require a ton more support than what was often not worth it.
- Ponyta notably outsped Arbok and at the same time could use Agility + Fire Spin to potentially sweep teams. However, besides Speed its stats were very mediocre, and having to rely on Fire Spin made it very inconsistent. - Wartortle was the noob trap of the tier. On paper it looks great: a Water-typing both made it very dangerous offensively while defensively it could check a wide variety of threats such as Flareon, Marowak, and Onix. However, in practice it did none of that. Its mediocre Special made it borderline frail on the Special end, and notably made it super vulnerable to Gastly. While it could check threats such as Flareon and Marowak in the short-term, it was definitely not a counter due to its lack of resistances, and it got worn down very quickly. At least Kabuto does consistently beat Flareon even if it wasn't that great. Wartortle is straight up bad despite seemingly looking good on paper. - Someone clearly got lost on their way to 7U. Though with its great base 90 Speed, Meowth was able to outspeed most of the metagame, while its STAB Slash and Body Slam, combined with Bubble Beam as coverage, let it leave a mark on pretty much everything in the tier. However, its Slash was severely underpowered compared to attacks such as Scyther's own Slash, while its terrible bulk left it very easy to KO. It was outclassed by the Normals, and while it could weaken Onix for a Double Normal Team, it still had no way to threaten Gastly.
- Discount Flareon, its base 80 Speed let it get the jump on a few more metagame threats, but its much lower Attack and Special made it worse in pretty much every other way, and thus it was extremely hard to justify using.
- The sheer amount of utility Clefairy had immense with its access to options such as Thunder Wave and Sing, but its terrible stats left it largely outclassed at pretty much all of its roles. - Golbat was effectively a worse Meowth, a Pokemon already teetering on the edge of complete unviability. Its extra bulk is only average, while its lack of STAB and terrible movepool leaves it very underpowered compared to the rest of the tier.Final thoughts:
This meta was pretty unfun all things considered. Arbok and Gastly were just too overcentralizing, the former making games last for an eternity, and both turning the tier into a rngfest. There was fun to be had, especially when both players agreed to not use Arbok, though the drops from PU couldn't have come soon enough.
Metagame #2: The Arcanine/Sandslash Meta
Shifts from PU led to 7 Pokemon, Arcanine, Electrode, Magmar, Poliwag, Sandslash, Slowpoke, and Vileplume, dropping, and one, Gastly, rising. Needless to say, the tier was radically altered as a result.
Once again assume every Pokemon not shown are ranked F.
The Lightning Round:
Once more, I feel the threats below don't have enough going for them to warrant as big of an explanation as the threats listed above, though they're still worth talking about all the same.
- Primeape once more acted as a speedy and versatile physical attacker. However, while it appreciated Poison-types not being nearly as dominant as they were before, the sheer power creep from the drops hurt Primape by making its previously decent power and bulk much worse by comparison. A base 95 Speed was still great, but was noticeably worse when it had to tie with the damn near unkillable Arcanine. Primeape was alright, but it was generally hard to justify using it over a top-tier.
- Pidgeot was fine, but nothing spectacular. Like Scyther, it appreciated Gastly and Onix being gone, though despite it not being as threatened by the Fire-types, Pidgeot suffered much more due to the shifts. The gap between base 105 and 91 was then much more significant with Arcanine and Magmar residing between them, and the increased power level meant Pidgeot just wasn't hitting as hard despite its worst matchups being gone. Scyther's Speed was still excellent, while Pidgeot's bulk and attack was just alright. However, Pidgeot wasn't awful either. It still hit solidly hard with a decent Speed tier, and it remained a serviceable progress-maker who can force damage on a variety of common threats, but it lacked the firepower and speed to be as excellent as it was in the old meta.
- Vilegod was largely outclassed by Parasect, as the Plume's better bulk and speed were largely outclassed by Parasect's double resistance to Ground, which made Parasect a much better Sandslash check. Vileplume did have a better matchup against the Fire-types, as unlike Parasect it was only 2HKOed, and thus it could status them if it faced them at full health, but in general this niche wasn't very useful since the slightest amount of chip could put Vileplume into KO range. Vileplume wasn't horrible, and some players could've preferred a worse Sandslash check that could sometimes not be total deal weight against the Fires, but generally Parasect was much more worth using.
- Butterfree reprised its role from the previous meta, acting as a sleeper with decent speed and reliability. However, it was a good bit worse than before, as it was even more underpowered due to the drops, and Arcanine and Magmar were notably bad matchups.
- As stated earlier, Flareon was outclassed by Arcanine, as teams preferred Arcanine's excellent physical bulk and Speed over Flareon's higher attacking stats and marginally higher special bulk. Even Double Fire Teams weren't a great option, as Magmar was still preferred over Flareon due to Magmar's excellent Speed. The only other option for Flareon were Triple Fire Teams, which were niche as all hell given that as great as the Fire-types were, you didn't need 3 of them. However, this was a niche for Flareon, as it was solid at weakening the Fire-type's shared checks.
- Given that Sandslash possessed Swords Dance and had higher stats, Marowak was almost completely outclassed. The only advantages Marowak did have were access to Counter, Blizzard, and Fire Blast. Marowak could be used alongside Sandslash to weaken their shared checks, with Marowak notably destroying Parasect with Fire Blast and threatening opposing Sandslash with Blizzard. However, Marowak was still very niche as its stats were no longer as good than they were in the previous metagame, with its Special bulk and Speed notably holding it back a lot. Marowak was not completely unusable, but it was very hard to justify using.
- Onix continued to counter Scyther and Pidgeot, and dominated newcomer Electrode, but otherwise it was horribly mediocre. Arcanine dominated it, outspeeding and 3HKOing with Fire Blast, while Onix struggled to 4HKO it through Reflect. Bind could pivot off threats such as Slowpoke and Sandslash, but on a one-on-one basis most of the tier easily beat Onix. In general, ZU's higher power level meant Onix's middling stats were way worse, and while countering Scyther was still great, Onix had limited utility outside of that.
- Weepinbell was hard to justify using over Parasect or Vileplume, as its much worse bulk left it sometimes 2HKOed by Sandslash, and it was just as destroyed by the Fire-types as Vileplume. However, Weepinbell did remain a solid switch-in to Electrode, and possessed interesting tools in Wrap, which can help in pivoting, and Razor Leaf, which let it beat Slowpoke and Poliwag even when they were at +2. Weepinbell had interesting uses, but its hard to justify using over the other Grass-types due to its generally poor defensive utility.
- Tentacool was similar to how it was in Arbok/Gastly meta, with its STAB Hydro Pump, Blizzard, and Wrap remaining excellent. However, once more its Ground weakness and low physical bulk made it hard to fit on teams, and its stats were much less impressive given the increased power level.
- Rhyhorn's powerful Earthquake made it difficult to switch into, and its Rock-typing let it somewhat check the Fire-types, though otherwise its low Speed and terrible Ground weakness made it very hard to justify using, despite Onix being much worse.
- Diglett fell off harder than any Pokemon in the metagame. It was not at all worth using, as its combination of low attack and atrocious bulk hurt it way more when new threats like Sandslash and Slowpoke easily set up on it, while the omnipresent Arcanine made its still great Speed way less impressive. Gastly rising and Scyther and Parasect remaining great did it no favors either. I debated even ranking it, but I guess it could still use its Speed and Earthquake to clean teams sometimes, but it probably made OU Machamp look top-tier.
- These Pokemon do the exact same things that they did before, but the tier's higher power level and Primeape being much worse makes them teeter on the edge of total unviability.
Final thoughts:
The Arcanine/Sandslash metagame radically changed how RBY ZU functioned. On one hand, its top threats weren't nearly as oppressive as those in the Arbok/Gastly metagame, despite them being unquestionably broken. On the other hand, it was still very centralized among a few high-tiers. I don't think I did a good job explaining it, but the gap between Parasect and Poliwag was huge, and generally I struggled to justify using anything below the top 7, even if it wasn't impossible. Even excluding the largely unviable E-tier, my 2nd vr had fewer Pokemon located on it, especially in the higher tiers. Was this a case of the metagame being fundamentally broken, or just due to the fact that we had much less time with it? I could very much see threats like Marowak, Onix, and even Weepinbell rising up my vr if we just had more time to test this meta.
However, despite having fewer viable Pokemon, this ZU was still more fun than the old one, in my opinion. Gastly and pre-shifts Arbok were as unfun as they were overpowered, and while I despised facing Sandslash, I found playing around it and Arcanine much more rewarding and less RNG-dependent.
Ultimately, with Arcanine and Sandslash banned, ZU is in an interesting spot. While nothing is as outright broken, the tier still struggles a lot with centralization, which is something us RBY ZU players will need deal with in the future.
Thanks to everyone for reading this textwall, I worked on and off for months on it. It was supposed to be a general description of the metagame, but two meta shifts forced me to change it to a retrospective. Godspeed everyone, and be sure to have a great day.
Once again assume every Pokemon not shown are ranked F.
Rip Flareon lol. Arcanine had the stats of a top-tier PU Pokemon, and only dropped due to it being slightly outclassed by Rapidash, in a metagame where you generally couldn't run both. In RBY ZU, Arcanine is like if you combined the power of Tauros, bulk of Snorlax, and Speed of Alakazam. To put it simply, it just beat almost everything. Arbok, Scyther, Primeape, Pidgeot, none of these powerful threats could hope to stand up to the sheer power of the dog.
Initially this wasn't that big of a deal, as while Arcanine was unquestionably mandatory, typically a team's best answer to Arcanine was their own, leading to most games having Arcanine Wars, much like the Tauros Wars of OU. However, its vulnerability to ParaSlam left most Arcanine low on health and paralyzed by the end of the War, leaving it easy pickings to the loser's team. However, towards the end of RBY Cup, Chub and Yazu discovered Reflect + Rest Arcanine. Body Slam and Fire Blast were more than enough to smash through the opposing team, and then all off a sudden Arcanine ridiculously hard to KO. It was very vulnerable to threats like Sandslash when it was sleeping, but they had to be played around anyways, so it was hardly a big loss.
Eventually, Arcanine was voted on and banned by the top 8 players of the RBY Cup. While it was very broken, quite honestly it wasn't nearly as annoying as Arbok and Gastly. Maybe Arcanine would've been just as bad if we let it stay for as long, though from what I experienced, it just didn't have the same RNG factor as the duo before it did, and was overall a much more fun "best Pokemon" in the tier.
Initially this wasn't that big of a deal, as while Arcanine was unquestionably mandatory, typically a team's best answer to Arcanine was their own, leading to most games having Arcanine Wars, much like the Tauros Wars of OU. However, its vulnerability to ParaSlam left most Arcanine low on health and paralyzed by the end of the War, leaving it easy pickings to the loser's team. However, towards the end of RBY Cup, Chub and Yazu discovered Reflect + Rest Arcanine. Body Slam and Fire Blast were more than enough to smash through the opposing team, and then all off a sudden Arcanine ridiculously hard to KO. It was very vulnerable to threats like Sandslash when it was sleeping, but they had to be played around anyways, so it was hardly a big loss.
Eventually, Arcanine was voted on and banned by the top 8 players of the RBY Cup. While it was very broken, quite honestly it wasn't nearly as annoying as Arbok and Gastly. Maybe Arcanine would've been just as bad if we let it stay for as long, though from what I experienced, it just didn't have the same RNG factor as the duo before it did, and was overall a much more fun "best Pokemon" in the tier.
Sandslash actually got more ban votes than Arcanine, and while I still believe Arcanine was slightly more overpowered, I wholeheartedly agree that Sandslash was an absolutely busted menace. While Arcanine was a generally better Flareon, Sandslash was a straight up upgrade to Marowak. It had better stats all-around, but more importantly it had Swords Dance, making it an absolutely devastating wallbreaker. If Sandslash could set up Swords Dance, which it easily could given its high bulk, it was getting a KO. And if Sandslash got a Swords Dance off behind a Substitute, it was pretty much game over. Ground is arguably an ever better typing here than in the previous metagame, slamming Arcanine and other excellent threats such as Magmar, something which was complimented perfectly with Rock Slide to target Pokemon like Scyther.
The only thing that kind of held Sandslash back was its Speed. It was kind of slow, which notably let Arbok pivot around Sandslash and wear it down, and let most targets take a good chunk out of Sandslash's HP before it could obliterate them in return. This meant Sandslash would never 6-0 a good team, at least not without heavy paralysis support, though that hardly mattered. Sandslash almost always left a huge hole in the opposing team, and your only consistent counterplay was to try to make a bigger hole using your own.
The only thing that kind of held Sandslash back was its Speed. It was kind of slow, which notably let Arbok pivot around Sandslash and wear it down, and let most targets take a good chunk out of Sandslash's HP before it could obliterate them in return. This meant Sandslash would never 6-0 a good team, at least not without heavy paralysis support, though that hardly mattered. Sandslash almost always left a huge hole in the opposing team, and your only consistent counterplay was to try to make a bigger hole using your own.
Slowpoke possessed an assortment of absolutely busted tools, including a Psychic unresisted by everything except itself, Water STAB to hit broken Fire- and Ground-types, the always excellent Thunder Wave, and everyone's favorite boosting move, Amnesia. This let Slowpoke carve a name for itself as an excellent metagame staple despite the absurdity of Arcanine and Sandslash.
However, Slowpoke would ultimately not reach the same level of broken that the aforementioned two reached, largely due to its stats. The elephant in the room is its Speed, which is quite literally the lowest in the game. Without paralysis support, Slowpoke had to contend with literally everything outspeeding it, which included every sleeper and partial trapper. To make matters worse, its other stats are nothing to write home about either. Its physical bulk was unspectacular, and its terrible base 40 Special meant it struggled to dish out and take special attacks even at +2.
Slowpoke initially seemed like an absolute nightmare to face, but its low stats held it back enough to where it isn't impossible to deal with. It probably would've been broken if Parasect couldn't outspeed it, but its combination of awful speed and mediocre to bad bulk left it more as a wallbreaker that could force paralysis on key players rather than a full-on sweeper.
However, Slowpoke would ultimately not reach the same level of broken that the aforementioned two reached, largely due to its stats. The elephant in the room is its Speed, which is quite literally the lowest in the game. Without paralysis support, Slowpoke had to contend with literally everything outspeeding it, which included every sleeper and partial trapper. To make matters worse, its other stats are nothing to write home about either. Its physical bulk was unspectacular, and its terrible base 40 Special meant it struggled to dish out and take special attacks even at +2.
Slowpoke initially seemed like an absolute nightmare to face, but its low stats held it back enough to where it isn't impossible to deal with. It probably would've been broken if Parasect couldn't outspeed it, but its combination of awful speed and mediocre to bad bulk left it more as a wallbreaker that could force paralysis on key players rather than a full-on sweeper.
Mamar was outclassed by Arcanine, with its access to Psychic and Counter completely overshadowed by Arcanine's much higher Attack and bulk. However, Arcanine was so absurdly powerful that even the discount version remained an excellent Pokemon in its own right. Magmar's brutally powerful Fire Blasts coming off its excellent Speed made it among the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier, even when accounting for its bad matchups against Arcanine, Sandslash, and Slowpoke.
Magmar also had a pretty varied movepool for a Gen 1 Fire-type. Body Slam and Hyper Beam was to be expected, but Magmar also possessed Psychic, which could help break through a Resting Arcanine, Counter, which could punish opposing Body Slams, Slashes, and Hyper Beams, and even Confuse Ray to pretend that you're playing 7U. I initially went with Fire Blast/Body Slam/Hyper Beam/Counter, but towards the end of this meta I began favoring Psychic more as opposing Arcanine began just using Fire Blast to avoid Counter.
Overall, Magmar wasn't close to the best Pokemon in the tier, but it still remained really good despite its bad matchups against some top threats. It could've easily ended up like Flareon here, or Arcanine in PU, but it held out on its own despite the odds stacked against it.
Magmar also had a pretty varied movepool for a Gen 1 Fire-type. Body Slam and Hyper Beam was to be expected, but Magmar also possessed Psychic, which could help break through a Resting Arcanine, Counter, which could punish opposing Body Slams, Slashes, and Hyper Beams, and even Confuse Ray to pretend that you're playing 7U. I initially went with Fire Blast/Body Slam/Hyper Beam/Counter, but towards the end of this meta I began favoring Psychic more as opposing Arcanine began just using Fire Blast to avoid Counter.
Overall, Magmar wasn't close to the best Pokemon in the tier, but it still remained really good despite its bad matchups against some top threats. It could've easily ended up like Flareon here, or Arcanine in PU, but it held out on its own despite the odds stacked against it.
I wouldn't have expected Scyther to remain a top threat when Arcanine and Magmar dropped, but this meta arguably helped Scyther as much as it hurt it. No Gastly and a much less viable Onix meant teams didn't automatically run Pokemon that stonewalled Scyther anymore. Arcanine and Magmar's Fire Blast did have the capability of OHKOing Scyther, but its blistering fast Speed meant they had to carefully manage their HP in order to not get into KO range. Additionally, while Scyther was no longer the fastest Pokemon in the metagame, Electrode dropping wasn't a big deal for reasons I'll get into later, and Scyther could just run Agility since Wing Attack was way less useful anyways.
Overall, Scyther was held back by its Bug-typing, but held its own thanks to its great Attack and Speed. Honestly, I feel I might be underrating Scyther here, as I can see arguments ranking it as high as #3, just behind the bans, as it really was great despite how absurd Arcanine was.
Overall, Scyther was held back by its Bug-typing, but held its own thanks to its great Attack and Speed. Honestly, I feel I might be underrating Scyther here, as I can see arguments ranking it as high as #3, just behind the bans, as it really was great despite how absurd Arcanine was.
Arbok once again reprised its role as a fantastic Wrapper with its speedy Earthquake and excellent Glare. However, it was ultimately nowhere near as broken as it was in the earlier meta. The tier had far better options of dealing with it, notably with Arcanine, and the massive increase in power level meant Arbok's previously great stats were reduced to just pretty solid.
Given its role remained largely the same, I'll avoid repeating myself. The only big change I saw was that Mega Drain was much less useful due to Onix falling off, so Arbok gained a bit more moveset flexibility as a result. The fact that Arbok remained so good is a testament to how amazing it was earlier, though the shifts left it in a much worse but still solid state.
Given its role remained largely the same, I'll avoid repeating myself. The only big change I saw was that Mega Drain was much less useful due to Onix falling off, so Arbok gained a bit more moveset flexibility as a result. The fact that Arbok remained so good is a testament to how amazing it was earlier, though the shifts left it in a much worse but still solid state.
While it's not too hard to see why Scyther remained relevant, by all accounts its fellow Bug Parasect should've never been able to survive in a tier ruled by Arcanine. While the Dog and its lackey Magmar were absolutely terrible matchups, Parasect found a great niche by being the only thing close to a consistent answer to the other broken threat, Sandslash.
Unlike other Grass-types like Vileplume, Parasect's double resistance to Ground made it one of the few Pokemon capable of switching into Sandslash's Earthquake multiple times. Parasect did fear Rock Slide, which at +2 could do over 90%, but at full health, barring critical hits, Parasect could always survive at least 2 attacks from Sandslash, or one attack at +2. And if it switched into Sandslash using Earthquake or Substitute, it could force it out with little to no repercussion. If Sandslash chose to stay in, it'd be Spored, which can outright lose games due to how important Sandslash was to a team.
Parasect wasn't just limited to the Sandslash matchup either. Spore combined with good bulk is always useful, notably against Slowpoke, while Stun Spore let Parasect remain difficult to switch into after sleep was used. Additionally, compared to the previous meta, no Gastly and fewer Wing Attacks also helped Parasect considerably. Ultimately, while Parasect did struggle a ton against Arcanine and Magmar, it still remained a great Pokemon.
Unlike other Grass-types like Vileplume, Parasect's double resistance to Ground made it one of the few Pokemon capable of switching into Sandslash's Earthquake multiple times. Parasect did fear Rock Slide, which at +2 could do over 90%, but at full health, barring critical hits, Parasect could always survive at least 2 attacks from Sandslash, or one attack at +2. And if it switched into Sandslash using Earthquake or Substitute, it could force it out with little to no repercussion. If Sandslash chose to stay in, it'd be Spored, which can outright lose games due to how important Sandslash was to a team.
Parasect wasn't just limited to the Sandslash matchup either. Spore combined with good bulk is always useful, notably against Slowpoke, while Stun Spore let Parasect remain difficult to switch into after sleep was used. Additionally, compared to the previous meta, no Gastly and fewer Wing Attacks also helped Parasect considerably. Ultimately, while Parasect did struggle a ton against Arcanine and Magmar, it still remained a great Pokemon.
Poliwag was not a Pokemon I was excited to see drop. It was the fastest Sleeper in ZU with base 90 Speed, but also super inconsistent with terrible bulk and a reliance on Hypnosis. Sound familiar
? If it could get a Sleep off, it threatened entire teams with its Water STAB + Blizzard, but if it missed, you risked playing 5v6.
Fortunately, Poliwag largely settled in the decent range of Pokemon rather than the overpowered. Poliwag's base 40 Special left it struggling to KO threats like Arcanine even while boosted, while its base 90 Speed left it outsped by a sizeable amount of common foes. It was an alright lead, but it was destroyed by opposing Lead Electrode. In the end, while Poliwag was super annoying to face, it wasn't overpowered or that hard to deal with.
? If it could get a Sleep off, it threatened entire teams with its Water STAB + Blizzard, but if it missed, you risked playing 5v6.Fortunately, Poliwag largely settled in the decent range of Pokemon rather than the overpowered. Poliwag's base 40 Special left it struggling to KO threats like Arcanine even while boosted, while its base 90 Speed left it outsped by a sizeable amount of common foes. It was an alright lead, but it was destroyed by opposing Lead Electrode. In the end, while Poliwag was super annoying to face, it wasn't overpowered or that hard to deal with.
Electrode was probably the most polarizing Pokemon in the Arcanine/Sandslash metagame. On one hand, it is the single fastest Pokemon in RBY, which is accompanied by a huge crit rate. These traits combined with its Electric-typing made it a fantastic check to Scyther and Poliwag, as well as a great revenge killer in general. Explosion is the icing on the cake, letting Electrode sacrifice itself to deal heavy damage to almost the entire tier.
On the other hand, as everyone knows, Electrode has arguably the worst matchup against Ground-types in the game, which is a huge issue when every serious team is running a bulky Ground-type in Sandslash. Electrode could try to use Screech + Explosion to eliminate it, but that maneuver was super telegraphed and easy to play around. Meanwhile, a vanilla Explosion only did around 50% to Sandslash, and as great as Sandslash was, sacrificing something to do only 50% to it just wasn't worth it. And to make matters worse, Electrode was similarly helpless against the Grass-types as well, who similarly took minimal damage from everything barring Explosion.
All this meant using Electrode was a huge commitment that needed heavy team support. Besides maybe scaring off Scyther or Poliwag, players using Electrode were basically playing 5v6 until they removed what was essentially a 3rd of the opposing team. Electrode was an absolute terror once its checks were removed, but it was not easy to get in such a game state, and oftentimes Electrode ended up as nothing more than half a Sandslash.
On the other hand, as everyone knows, Electrode has arguably the worst matchup against Ground-types in the game, which is a huge issue when every serious team is running a bulky Ground-type in Sandslash. Electrode could try to use Screech + Explosion to eliminate it, but that maneuver was super telegraphed and easy to play around. Meanwhile, a vanilla Explosion only did around 50% to Sandslash, and as great as Sandslash was, sacrificing something to do only 50% to it just wasn't worth it. And to make matters worse, Electrode was similarly helpless against the Grass-types as well, who similarly took minimal damage from everything barring Explosion.
All this meant using Electrode was a huge commitment that needed heavy team support. Besides maybe scaring off Scyther or Poliwag, players using Electrode were basically playing 5v6 until they removed what was essentially a 3rd of the opposing team. Electrode was an absolute terror once its checks were removed, but it was not easy to get in such a game state, and oftentimes Electrode ended up as nothing more than half a Sandslash.
Kabuto once more reprised the role of checking a dominate Fire-type and Scyther. It was notably much better at handling Arcanine than Flareon, as Arcanine's lower attacking stats gave Kabuto more opportunities to switch into Arcanine before having to Rest. Additionally, due to Gastly leaving, Kabuto no longer had to worry about it letting in arguably the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier.
However, once more Kabuto had major flaws as well. While it wasn't worn down as quickly, it still often found itself forced to Rest in the early-game and become very passive as a result. Additionally, the new drops in Slowpoke and Sandslash gave it a ton of trouble, as Kabuto struggled to stop the former from setting up on it, while the latter had a 33% chance to OHKO it with its Earthquake from full. Kabuto remained solid, but its flaws meant it needed heavy team support and it didn't automatically turn the Pokemon it beat into fodder.
However, once more Kabuto had major flaws as well. While it wasn't worn down as quickly, it still often found itself forced to Rest in the early-game and become very passive as a result. Additionally, the new drops in Slowpoke and Sandslash gave it a ton of trouble, as Kabuto struggled to stop the former from setting up on it, while the latter had a 33% chance to OHKO it with its Earthquake from full. Kabuto remained solid, but its flaws meant it needed heavy team support and it didn't automatically turn the Pokemon it beat into fodder.
The Lightning Round:
Once more, I feel the threats below don't have enough going for them to warrant as big of an explanation as the threats listed above, though they're still worth talking about all the same.
- Primeape once more acted as a speedy and versatile physical attacker. However, while it appreciated Poison-types not being nearly as dominant as they were before, the sheer power creep from the drops hurt Primape by making its previously decent power and bulk much worse by comparison. A base 95 Speed was still great, but was noticeably worse when it had to tie with the damn near unkillable Arcanine. Primeape was alright, but it was generally hard to justify using it over a top-tier. - Pidgeot was fine, but nothing spectacular. Like Scyther, it appreciated Gastly and Onix being gone, though despite it not being as threatened by the Fire-types, Pidgeot suffered much more due to the shifts. The gap between base 105 and 91 was then much more significant with Arcanine and Magmar residing between them, and the increased power level meant Pidgeot just wasn't hitting as hard despite its worst matchups being gone. Scyther's Speed was still excellent, while Pidgeot's bulk and attack was just alright. However, Pidgeot wasn't awful either. It still hit solidly hard with a decent Speed tier, and it remained a serviceable progress-maker who can force damage on a variety of common threats, but it lacked the firepower and speed to be as excellent as it was in the old meta. - Vilegod was largely outclassed by Parasect, as the Plume's better bulk and speed were largely outclassed by Parasect's double resistance to Ground, which made Parasect a much better Sandslash check. Vileplume did have a better matchup against the Fire-types, as unlike Parasect it was only 2HKOed, and thus it could status them if it faced them at full health, but in general this niche wasn't very useful since the slightest amount of chip could put Vileplume into KO range. Vileplume wasn't horrible, and some players could've preferred a worse Sandslash check that could sometimes not be total deal weight against the Fires, but generally Parasect was much more worth using. - Butterfree reprised its role from the previous meta, acting as a sleeper with decent speed and reliability. However, it was a good bit worse than before, as it was even more underpowered due to the drops, and Arcanine and Magmar were notably bad matchups. - As stated earlier, Flareon was outclassed by Arcanine, as teams preferred Arcanine's excellent physical bulk and Speed over Flareon's higher attacking stats and marginally higher special bulk. Even Double Fire Teams weren't a great option, as Magmar was still preferred over Flareon due to Magmar's excellent Speed. The only other option for Flareon were Triple Fire Teams, which were niche as all hell given that as great as the Fire-types were, you didn't need 3 of them. However, this was a niche for Flareon, as it was solid at weakening the Fire-type's shared checks. - Given that Sandslash possessed Swords Dance and had higher stats, Marowak was almost completely outclassed. The only advantages Marowak did have were access to Counter, Blizzard, and Fire Blast. Marowak could be used alongside Sandslash to weaken their shared checks, with Marowak notably destroying Parasect with Fire Blast and threatening opposing Sandslash with Blizzard. However, Marowak was still very niche as its stats were no longer as good than they were in the previous metagame, with its Special bulk and Speed notably holding it back a lot. Marowak was not completely unusable, but it was very hard to justify using. - Onix continued to counter Scyther and Pidgeot, and dominated newcomer Electrode, but otherwise it was horribly mediocre. Arcanine dominated it, outspeeding and 3HKOing with Fire Blast, while Onix struggled to 4HKO it through Reflect. Bind could pivot off threats such as Slowpoke and Sandslash, but on a one-on-one basis most of the tier easily beat Onix. In general, ZU's higher power level meant Onix's middling stats were way worse, and while countering Scyther was still great, Onix had limited utility outside of that. - Weepinbell was hard to justify using over Parasect or Vileplume, as its much worse bulk left it sometimes 2HKOed by Sandslash, and it was just as destroyed by the Fire-types as Vileplume. However, Weepinbell did remain a solid switch-in to Electrode, and possessed interesting tools in Wrap, which can help in pivoting, and Razor Leaf, which let it beat Slowpoke and Poliwag even when they were at +2. Weepinbell had interesting uses, but its hard to justify using over the other Grass-types due to its generally poor defensive utility. - Tentacool was similar to how it was in Arbok/Gastly meta, with its STAB Hydro Pump, Blizzard, and Wrap remaining excellent. However, once more its Ground weakness and low physical bulk made it hard to fit on teams, and its stats were much less impressive given the increased power level. - Rhyhorn's powerful Earthquake made it difficult to switch into, and its Rock-typing let it somewhat check the Fire-types, though otherwise its low Speed and terrible Ground weakness made it very hard to justify using, despite Onix being much worse. - Diglett fell off harder than any Pokemon in the metagame. It was not at all worth using, as its combination of low attack and atrocious bulk hurt it way more when new threats like Sandslash and Slowpoke easily set up on it, while the omnipresent Arcanine made its still great Speed way less impressive. Gastly rising and Scyther and Parasect remaining great did it no favors either. I debated even ranking it, but I guess it could still use its Speed and Earthquake to clean teams sometimes, but it probably made OU Machamp look top-tier. - These Pokemon do the exact same things that they did before, but the tier's higher power level and Primeape being much worse makes them teeter on the edge of total unviability.Final thoughts:
The Arcanine/Sandslash metagame radically changed how RBY ZU functioned. On one hand, its top threats weren't nearly as oppressive as those in the Arbok/Gastly metagame, despite them being unquestionably broken. On the other hand, it was still very centralized among a few high-tiers. I don't think I did a good job explaining it, but the gap between Parasect and Poliwag was huge, and generally I struggled to justify using anything below the top 7, even if it wasn't impossible. Even excluding the largely unviable E-tier, my 2nd vr had fewer Pokemon located on it, especially in the higher tiers. Was this a case of the metagame being fundamentally broken, or just due to the fact that we had much less time with it? I could very much see threats like Marowak, Onix, and even Weepinbell rising up my vr if we just had more time to test this meta.
However, despite having fewer viable Pokemon, this ZU was still more fun than the old one, in my opinion. Gastly and pre-shifts Arbok were as unfun as they were overpowered, and while I despised facing Sandslash, I found playing around it and Arcanine much more rewarding and less RNG-dependent.
Ultimately, with Arcanine and Sandslash banned, ZU is in an interesting spot. While nothing is as outright broken, the tier still struggles a lot with centralization, which is something us RBY ZU players will need deal with in the future.
Thanks to everyone for reading this textwall, I worked on and off for months on it. It was supposed to be a general description of the metagame, but two meta shifts forced me to change it to a retrospective. Godspeed everyone, and be sure to have a great day.
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A Tail of Two Kitties 
Starting with the elephant coloured cat in the room:
If you've played or even watched ORAS ZU, you'll be aware of this mon for practically being the face of the tier. Every ZU old gen seems to have that fast hitting Normal-type that makes it mandatory for every team to have a Rock-type, but this time around those aren't even necessarily safe because of Wake-Up Slap and Iron Tail which bops the likes of Lairon and Carbink. On the flip side, many of these Rock-types use Rocky Helmet, so Knock Off is basically forced upon most Purugly sets and you don't tend to drop Fake Out either so that only leaves one slot to handle whatever you choose with U-turn being the middleground that preserves tempo but prefers you to remove Helmet beforehand. Other resists like Klang don't wanna lose Eviolite particularly but do annoy Purugly and Ghost-types are extremely uncommon with Dusclops being reserved for only stallish teams (unless you're 5dots) and Gourgeist who has fell off quite hard due to people just realising how its competition tends to be better. At least that's how I see the Four Move Slot Syndrome that keeps Purugly balanced to at least some degree, but I've also seen some cursed sets from players playing ORAS significantly longer than I have dropping both Fake Out or U-turn in order to fit both Wake-Up Slap and Iron Tail.
There's also how well it pairs up with hazards due to Defiant which truly turns this thing into a monster because suddenly all these 2HKOes on common Pokemon like Electabuzz, Pignite, and Politoed into OHKOs. This is nothing new tho, Purugly Spikes has been used a lot over the past year whether it be with more defensive Spikers like Quilladin or dedicated HO leads like Dwebble or Trubbish. You can be OBB and use Sandshrew to avoid giving it Defiant boost, accept that Spikes are going up, or try and clear away hazards by sacking something and then forcing Purugly out afterwards. Spikes are a great way to wear down Purugly's defensive answers since they're all grounded and the normal resist of this tier have to rely on Rest or Wish passers for their recovery. I was pretty bad at building at this tier so I mostly stole teams from twitt, fruits, toto, tho on occasion I built them from the ground up with inspiration from teams I had seen and played against, but even this was enough to make me notice how frustrating Purugly's kit is to build around. The adaptations are definitely there but the options are definitely quite limited. Let's suppose if Purugly was banned, would we see Persian. To be honest I don't think it'll be used that much; the speed tier is certainly nice for a couple things like Pluff and Swoobat but for the most part, I'd expect other Normal-types which are much stronger into normal resists like Sawsbuck or Furfrou or even Slaking to see much more increased usage instead. Might be wrong about which normal type ends up on top but I'm pretty certain that at least the Normal-type situation would be more healthy for ZU and either way it's very difficult to tell whether the overall centralisation will be lower with Purugly gone or not. I think most people would be happy that Spikes Stack gets knocked down a peg at the very least. Overall a Purugly suspect would definitely be something worth considering and something I'd support as there is some down time post-olympiad until ZUPL begins.Next up VR stuff , ORAS VR seemed quite outdated so I decided to drop my personal one here too with some thoughts too. I won't do the entire thing but in order to prove a point, I shall include up to B+ rank in order to one up posts from deg and ho3n in the past :>
S
- see the above paragraphs :>
- Annoying pivot that's fast and that can annoy Ground-types and special walls with HP Ice and Toxic.
A+
- Incredible defensive and offensive threat in one. Leaf Storm is just super strong and it will Glare and Knock Off Dustox and Ivysaur at worst which can go a long way. Basically NFE PTSD.
- Good slow pivot, Defogger, Toxic Spikes absorber. Depending if its physdef or spdef it can beat all of the above. Whirlwind does some funny stuff with Future Sight and I think its one of the better users of phasing move.
- I think this mon is insanely strong. Its STABs alone cover an insane amount and its fairly bulky with Eviolite and Thick Fat. Sucker prio means it isnt completely useless when low/makes up for mid speed. Also has stuff like Taunt, Roar, and Curse to further branch out but I mostly spammed AoA.
- I think it's pretty agreed on this thing isn't S tier but it's still incredibly good as a wallbreaker. There's just a few too many mons that can outspeed it and other Grass-types having more longevity make them easier to build with/use.
A
- Another Grass-type that's great both offensively and defensively and has solid utility. Immunity to Toxic and absorbing Toxic Spikes distinguishes it from Servine. Very good stallbreaker.
- With Iron Tail Purugly existing, Carbink has become a lot less reliable as a Purugly answer but its Fairy-typing makes it so good for dealing with the very annoying Scraggy. Still super solid generally as a physical wall.
- This mon has straight up just won me some matchups. Far too often teams just can't really break it down as it FSights and spams status. Its still a fairly good wall otherwise cause broken regen.
- Another mon that's solid defensively and offensively (just don't look at the hp grass calc vs huntail). Encore Protect are really what push it up here
- A bit of a matchup fish at times, but sometimes it just wins after a while. Knocks stuff too and has Roar.
- I dont see Klang all too often but its the tiers best Steel-type and a great setup sweeper.
- Spikes. Very contested tho by other Grasses.
- I despise playing against this Pokemon, I have like a negative winrate vs it and even zause will tell you that's mathematically impossible. Specs is strong af, Scarf is solid, and Toxic sets are annoying af. I tend to prefer Pignite as my Fire-type tho because Magmar is weaker defensively.
A-
- Havent encountered it much but it can be quite a strong breaker, frankly didnt use Waters that much in my games and when I did I used toed.
- I dont like it as much as Carbink because of the inferior typing but its better into Purugly coverage since its a midground between taking both Wake-Up Slap and Iron Tail. Has some silly sets too with Custap (and ig Band but I never used it and the one time I faced it, it got beaten by Virbava...)
- Really solid wall that tends to holds teams together with the added bonus that its a Poison-type.
- Strong breaker with really nice coverage moves. Lairon falling off means u get those weird sets where u drop Jump Kick and can work out most the time. Grass-types are plentiful but tbh this plays more like a Normal-type and gets around some of Purugly's problems while being slower.
- Scary mon still but I feel like its become way more known due to how often people spam those HO teams.
- Band and Scarf are both good but sucks defensively. Fake Ground-type since Ebuzz will fuck it up anyways.
- Depends on mu, can be an insane breaker than claims one every time or just die to rocks chip eventually. Can also run a CM set.
- Depends on mu, can be an insane breaker than claims one every time or just die to rocks chip eventually. Cannot also run a CM set but also can run Lorb/NeverMeltIce and Scarf.
- How times have changed, funny seeing it in A+, I think it's just too inconsistent and weak to be up so high but it for sure can still be a threat and it can help weaken stuff for Purugly for example. Every time I bring the funny Natural Gift set, Lairon and Ebuzz are nowhere to be seen :(.
B+
- Its most threatening offensively tbh. Head Smash is really strong but defensively it's really meh and can't run RHelm and weak to Wake-Up Slap Purugly. Other stuff has Ground coverage too.
- This thing is really cool. Encore was very neat in fact and Normal Spam can really overwhelm teams. Just a very strong breaker in general though.
- Utility bot, Wish is probably the most notable thing.
- Screens are fine.
- Spiker but this time it booms. Scarf was cool too I suppose since it has switcheroo and spikes as niches over Vanilluxe.
- Spiker but this time 2 types of them
- Idk. Never played vs it but it exists and is fat and annoying.
- Good role compression but not a fan personally since its a fake Ground-type.
- Real Ground-type that actually annoys Buzz. Doesnt fit on everything tho.
- Another Normal-type breaker.
- see the above paragraphs :> - Annoying pivot that's fast and that can annoy Ground-types and special walls with HP Ice and Toxic.A+
- Incredible defensive and offensive threat in one. Leaf Storm is just super strong and it will Glare and Knock Off Dustox and Ivysaur at worst which can go a long way. Basically NFE PTSD. - Good slow pivot, Defogger, Toxic Spikes absorber. Depending if its physdef or spdef it can beat all of the above. Whirlwind does some funny stuff with Future Sight and I think its one of the better users of phasing move. - I think this mon is insanely strong. Its STABs alone cover an insane amount and its fairly bulky with Eviolite and Thick Fat. Sucker prio means it isnt completely useless when low/makes up for mid speed. Also has stuff like Taunt, Roar, and Curse to further branch out but I mostly spammed AoA. - I think it's pretty agreed on this thing isn't S tier but it's still incredibly good as a wallbreaker. There's just a few too many mons that can outspeed it and other Grass-types having more longevity make them easier to build with/use.A
- Another Grass-type that's great both offensively and defensively and has solid utility. Immunity to Toxic and absorbing Toxic Spikes distinguishes it from Servine. Very good stallbreaker. - With Iron Tail Purugly existing, Carbink has become a lot less reliable as a Purugly answer but its Fairy-typing makes it so good for dealing with the very annoying Scraggy. Still super solid generally as a physical wall. - This mon has straight up just won me some matchups. Far too often teams just can't really break it down as it FSights and spams status. Its still a fairly good wall otherwise cause broken regen. - Another mon that's solid defensively and offensively (just don't look at the hp grass calc vs huntail). Encore Protect are really what push it up here - A bit of a matchup fish at times, but sometimes it just wins after a while. Knocks stuff too and has Roar. - I dont see Klang all too often but its the tiers best Steel-type and a great setup sweeper. - Spikes. Very contested tho by other Grasses. - I despise playing against this Pokemon, I have like a negative winrate vs it and even zause will tell you that's mathematically impossible. Specs is strong af, Scarf is solid, and Toxic sets are annoying af. I tend to prefer Pignite as my Fire-type tho because Magmar is weaker defensively.A-
- Havent encountered it much but it can be quite a strong breaker, frankly didnt use Waters that much in my games and when I did I used toed. - I dont like it as much as Carbink because of the inferior typing but its better into Purugly coverage since its a midground between taking both Wake-Up Slap and Iron Tail. Has some silly sets too with Custap (and ig Band but I never used it and the one time I faced it, it got beaten by Virbava...) - Really solid wall that tends to holds teams together with the added bonus that its a Poison-type. - Strong breaker with really nice coverage moves. Lairon falling off means u get those weird sets where u drop Jump Kick and can work out most the time. Grass-types are plentiful but tbh this plays more like a Normal-type and gets around some of Purugly's problems while being slower. - Scary mon still but I feel like its become way more known due to how often people spam those HO teams. - Band and Scarf are both good but sucks defensively. Fake Ground-type since Ebuzz will fuck it up anyways. - Depends on mu, can be an insane breaker than claims one every time or just die to rocks chip eventually. Can also run a CM set. - Depends on mu, can be an insane breaker than claims one every time or just die to rocks chip eventually. Cannot also run a CM set but also can run Lorb/NeverMeltIce and Scarf. - How times have changed, funny seeing it in A+, I think it's just too inconsistent and weak to be up so high but it for sure can still be a threat and it can help weaken stuff for Purugly for example. Every time I bring the funny Natural Gift set, Lairon and Ebuzz are nowhere to be seen :(.B+
- Its most threatening offensively tbh. Head Smash is really strong but defensively it's really meh and can't run RHelm and weak to Wake-Up Slap Purugly. Other stuff has Ground coverage too. - This thing is really cool. Encore was very neat in fact and Normal Spam can really overwhelm teams. Just a very strong breaker in general though. - Utility bot, Wish is probably the most notable thing. - Screens are fine. - Spiker but this time it booms. Scarf was cool too I suppose since it has switcheroo and spikes as niches over Vanilluxe. - Spiker but this time 2 types of them - Idk. Never played vs it but it exists and is fat and annoying. - Good role compression but not a fan personally since its a fake Ground-type. - Real Ground-type that actually annoys Buzz. Doesnt fit on everything tho. - Another Normal-type breaker.Note: I have no idea where to rank all the Rain mons like Golduck and Beartic, I've never used it and only ever played against it once.
No idea when I'll write another old gen ZU post, don't know when I'll play this tier again, who knows.
Purugly's high Speed and Defiant make it a centralizing force on hazard stack teams, to the point where it is the dominant playstyle. With a multitude of viable Spikers and Stealth Rock setters in tandem with the struggle of slotting in flexible Defoggers, Purugly can easily find opportunities to capitalize on Defog or pressure hazards to stay on. Access to good offensive moves like Knock Off, U-turn, and Fake Out make it difficult to consistently check without getting crippled. Even Rock- and Steel-types are not safe: Lairon and Carbink can both suffer massive damage from other coverage choices like Wake-Up Slap and Iron Tail, respectively. While checks like Gigalith and Gourgeist-L can help, the former can get worn down with hazards and repeated pivoting, while the latter's reliance on Synthesis makes it passive and vulnerable to other wallbreakers like Vanilluxe and Simipour that Purugly is often paired with.
The following voters are qualified from select tours:
ZU Olympiad - Fruits, Yovan, 5dots, Deg, Narwhal
ZUPL IV - Hoen, Raichy, 5gen, shane, gorex, inno
Finals ORAS Cup Triathlon - Banbadoro, Somalia
Finals ORAS Cup IV - Toto, Charles
Semis ORAS ZU Cup - Aizincrad, Tuthur, Jett
ZUPL IV - Hoen, Raichy, 5gen, shane, gorex, inno
Finals ORAS Cup Triathlon - Banbadoro, Somalia
Finals ORAS Cup IV - Toto, Charles
Semis ORAS ZU Cup - Aizincrad, Tuthur, Jett
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The deadline has passed to vote for Purugly and the results are in! With 8/11 (or ~72.3%) of voters wanting to ban on the Tiger Cat for ORAS ZU, thus passing the threshold of 60% + 1 voter for a ban, Purugly is now banned from ORAS ZU. Thank you all for those who took the time to respond and/or put your thoughts in.
deg: Ban
SOMALIA: Ban
Tuthur: Abstain
SadisticNarwhal: Ban
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d: Do Not Ban
Toto: Ban
Raichy: Do Not Ban
a fruitshop owner: Ban
innovamania: Ban
Jett: Ban
Ainzcrad: Abstain
shaneghoul: Do Not Ban
5Dots: Ban
SOMALIA: Ban
Tuthur: Abstain
SadisticNarwhal: Ban
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d: Do Not Ban
Toto: Ban
Raichy: Do Not Ban
a fruitshop owner: Ban
innovamania: Ban
Jett: Ban
Ainzcrad: Abstain
shaneghoul: Do Not Ban
5Dots: Ban
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GSC ZU OPINIONS, PERSONAL VR, AND TEAMDUMP
My classic run has reached its unfortunate conclusion so I figured I'd post all my thoughts on this wonderful meta I recently got to play in both my successful gambits in GSC ZU Cup and Olympiad.
Overall, I think this meta is amazing, it reminds me a lot of GSC NU, in that it has all the slow-paced mechanics of GSC while remaining fast in tempo. However, I think a lot of the meta is also still in its nascent stage, which is super exciting because that means there's so much room to develop! I wouldn't say the tier needs any sort of tiering action at the moment, and is operating just fine in its current state. Hopefully this post gives people more resources to get into the tier!
Personal Viability Rankings
Many of my VR opinions are animated by boom being the heart and soul of the tier -- not Croconaw/Magby. Because the tier is offensive with offensive pivots to act as defensive options (Croconaw and Togetic), the name of the game is exploding on the right option for your team to make progress and set up your win conditions. When building your team, this should be at the forefront of your mind and should inform all of your decisions when using your boomer(s), of which you should always have one on your teams. The most popular Pokemon in this meta all check each other in a delicate balance of Jenga, so removing the piece that halts your victory leads to the opponent's tower crumbling. For example, you may need to get rid of Togetic for a Bayleef sweep, Tentacool for a Shmoochum sweep, or Bayleef for a Seel sweep -- it's all baits and booms.
Note - For my VR I will be referring to win rates and usage rates from GSC Cup. These are not the end-all-be-all for viability but do help paint a good picture at how a Pokemon may preform in theory versus practice. Many new players may have not used certain Pokemon to great effect but it is something to at least consider!
S Rank:
A+ Rank:1.
2.
A Rank:3.
A- Rank:4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
B+ Rank:10.
11.
12.
B Rank:These are the last Pokemon you should regularly expect to encounter. They all require some precise building to make work.
13.
14.
15.
B- Rank:Don't use these unless you have good reason.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
C+/Not Zu Rank:21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
26.
C/Untier Rank:These are certainly not ZU-caliber mons but have a niche. Mankey is fast and strong, Phanpy can mono ground curse talk when fliers are blown up, larvitar is a rock type, and Parasect can spore on certain not-too-relevant-mons.
These all may have an extremely tiny niche in the tier or are otherwise outclasses by a similar Pokemon. They should be untiered, as they can realistically do very little better than other ZU Pokemon.
Team Dump
Here are teams and short explanations for them from both Olympiad and Classic, along with replays for how they function. This is a grab-and-go helper, as there is very few variety in accessible teams for those who do not know how to build this tier. I built a lot for these tours, so here they are!
Week 1 vs Innovamania (W) Dratini Balance (bad)
Magby lead fish with Dratini to start softening up the enemy team. Croc is weak to Grasses so Koffing, Magby, Togetic, and Dratini make up for that here. Honestly team seems suboptimal and is probably the worst here because of its weakness to smoochum, but its my first built team. Slide is probably better than HPGrass and thunder over haze on Koffing.
Week 2 vs Hitmonstars (W) Standard Balance
Togetic can catch poisons and Onix off guard with psychic to clear the way for your own poisons. Similar to the team above, but Bayleef has screen to help against Smoochum.
Week 3 vs A Real Jester (W) Double SD Double Ground Offense
Double ground double SD hyper offense that's meant to take down huge threats like Togetic and Bayleef to set up other members. The SD mons help the grounds and the grounds help the SD mons. Need to assess win condition accordingly here to move forward with a game plan.
Week 4 vs Estarossa (W) Meowth Balance
This is standard Meowth balance and the type of team it fits best on. Use double thief here on Croc/Toge/Bay to make slow progress with your Magby. Croc is going to ultimately fish to kill the enemy Croc with HPGrass here. Growl over screens here on Bay is better for Toge if that's a struggle for you.
Week 5 vs Leru (W) Boom Spam
Grimer lead stacks up well in the current meta and allows you to get curse up on turn two when their Magby realizes it has to switch. It's also a great Onix lure. Use your booms on Toge and Bay, neutralize enemy boomers, and sweep with your own Togetic. Boom trading when at a number advantage is also a great way to win and close a game.
Other Good Teams From GSC Cup
Smoochum Diglett Offense
Meowth HO
After all of the highs & lows of the GSC Grand Slam, I'd like to offer some suggestions to the playerbase as to which direction to take with the freshly created ZU teir. As many might already be aware ZU is the only Gen 2 teir (unless you want to count SZU) that doesn't sport a spiker amongst its ranks (barring, ofc, metronome from Togetic).
This abnormality obviously brings to mind the question « what if » this wasn't the case. With that said, the only logical choice would have to be Delibird who is currently locked away in PU given that the next lowest tiered spiker (Pineco) is in the much higher NU tier. It's also interesting to note that during the PU Grand Slam only about 1/3rd of the teams in the tour even made use of Delibird. So while it does see a decent amount of usage there this is isn't even comparable to how common Cloyster & Forretress are in OU. I've ponder this question for a while now and based on all of my calculations Delibird would probably fit right into ZU with no problems at all imo.
Let me list a few reasons for why I believe this would be the case:
1) For one, the tier has several spinners available but no spiker to justify em being used ,which ofc, limits the viability of any pokémon who would have spinning as a niche. Those would include the following mons:
and Delibird as well (tho it can't use spikes & spin on the same set)...2) Secondly, Delibird's base stat total (BST) falls completely in line with the range of pokemons that are already present in the tier and that aren't causing a issue such as Croconaw (405), Togetic (405), Bayleef (405), Onix (385). Being all the way down at a base stat total of 330 it becomes difficult to claim that Delibird would be overpowered in ZU when considering what's already present there. If that wasn't enough, there's also the fact most of the popular mons in ZU shut it down or at the very least hit it for A LOT of damage:
Croconaw Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 302-356 (109 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magby Fire Blast vs. Delibird: 328-386 (118.4 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bayleef Ancient Power vs. Delibird: 211-248 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 336-396 (121.2 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diglett Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 248-292 (89.5 - 105.4%) -- 35.9% chance to OHKO
Mareep Thunderbolt vs. Delibird: 250-294 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- 38.5% chance to OHKO
3) Now with this in mind, I have gone a step even further than this and actually took the time to test this notion out onto the battlefield in order to really make the rubber hit the road as the old saying goes.
I've included Geodude (BST 330) as well in these tests because while it is considered a PU mon, I quite literally didn't see a single one used throughout the entire PU Grand Slam and I figured an extra spinner could only help ZU if Delibird were to drop down. With that out of the way, here are several of my replays from trying em out against Beelzemon 2003 (shout out to LC Item Clause)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895861531-syaeofnaw24hrbo6ro4wpl60xmr91vhpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895868058-6diu9yo6q2jhgolujash1oskjliro30pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895879517-vdtqa3sllgczje17o3sdgpl6fakydebpw
And so in conclusion, I believe that Delibird & Geodude should be suspect tested by the Gen2 ZU community in the next tour or at the very least some important discussions should be had on this topic amongst the higher playerbase. The only reason that I can even think of for keeping Delibird out of ZU after all of this would be for the tier to keep that title of being the "only place in GSC with no spikes", which I suppose is technically an argument but just not a particularly persuasive one in my humble opinon. Anyways, I'd like to read the comments of what others think about this idea down below & thank you all for your time.
P.S: Also, this is the command I used on showdown to test this out if anyone was curious about that:
/challenge gen2nu @@@ -Xatu, -Weezing, -Primeape, -Dewgong, -Pineco, -Chinchou, -Ninetales, -Kingler, -Hitmonlee, -Dugtrio, -Sudowoodo, -Rapidash, -Magnemite, -Octillery, -Stantler, -Wigglytuff, -Fearow, -Magmar, -Flareon, -Lickitung, -Azumarill, -Gloom, -Dunsparce, -Farfetch'd, -Arbok, -Porygon, -Shuckle, -Graveler, -Exeggcute, -Pupitar, -Persian, -Pidgeot, -Ledian, -Raticate, -Houndour, -Dragonair, -Hitmonchan, -Sneasel, -Furret, -Seadra, -Murkrow, -Venomoth, -Poliwhirl, -Drowzee, -Elekid, -Magcargo, -Tangela, -Abra, -Cubone, -Seaking, -Voltorb, -Aipom, -Machoke, -Flaaffy, -Clefairy, -Rhyhorn, -Omanyte, -Gastly, -Noctowl, -Sunflora, -Hitmontop, -Beedrill, -Charmeleon, -Golbat, -Eevee, -Ariados, -Corsola, -Slowpoke, -Psyduck, -Ponyta, -Mantine, -Staryu, -Poliwag, -Quilava, -Wartortle
After all of the highs & lows of the GSC Grand Slam, I'd like to offer some suggestions to the playerbase as to which direction to take with the freshly created ZU teir. As many might already be aware ZU is the only Gen 2 teir (unless you want to count SZU) that doesn't sport a spiker amongst its ranks (barring, ofc, metronome from Togetic).
This abnormality obviously brings to mind the question « what if » this wasn't the case. With that said, the only logical choice would have to be Delibird who is currently locked away in PU given that the next lowest tiered spiker (Pineco) is in the much higher NU tier. It's also interesting to note that during the PU Grand Slam only about 1/3rd of the teams in the tour even made use of Delibird. So while it does see a decent amount of usage there this is isn't even comparable to how common Cloyster & Forretress are in OU. I've ponder this question for a while now and based on all of my calculations Delibird would probably fit right into ZU with no problems at all imo.
Let me list a few reasons for why I believe this would be the case:
1) For one, the tier has several spinners available but no spiker to justify em being used ,which ofc, limits the viability of any pokémon who would have spinning as a niche. Those would include the following mons:
2) Secondly, Delibird's base stat total (BST) falls completely in line with the range of pokemons that are already present in the tier and that aren't causing a issue such as Croconaw (405), Togetic (405), Bayleef (405), Onix (385). Being all the way down at a base stat total of 330 it becomes difficult to claim that Delibird would be overpowered in ZU when considering what's already present there. If that wasn't enough, there's also the fact most of the popular mons in ZU shut it down or at the very least hit it for A LOT of damage:
Croconaw Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 302-356 (109 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magby Fire Blast vs. Delibird: 328-386 (118.4 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bayleef Ancient Power vs. Delibird: 211-248 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 336-396 (121.2 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diglett Rock Slide vs. Delibird: 248-292 (89.5 - 105.4%) -- 35.9% chance to OHKO
Mareep Thunderbolt vs. Delibird: 250-294 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- 38.5% chance to OHKO
3) Now with this in mind, I have gone a step even further than this and actually took the time to test this notion out onto the battlefield in order to really make the rubber hit the road as the old saying goes.
I've included Geodude (BST 330) as well in these tests because while it is considered a PU mon, I quite literally didn't see a single one used throughout the entire PU Grand Slam and I figured an extra spinner could only help ZU if Delibird were to drop down. With that out of the way, here are several of my replays from trying em out against Beelzemon 2003 (shout out to LC Item Clause)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895861531-syaeofnaw24hrbo6ro4wpl60xmr91vhpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895868058-6diu9yo6q2jhgolujash1oskjliro30pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1895879517-vdtqa3sllgczje17o3sdgpl6fakydebpw
And so in conclusion, I believe that Delibird & Geodude should be suspect tested by the Gen2 ZU community in the next tour or at the very least some important discussions should be had on this topic amongst the higher playerbase. The only reason that I can even think of for keeping Delibird out of ZU after all of this would be for the tier to keep that title of being the "only place in GSC with no spikes", which I suppose is technically an argument but just not a particularly persuasive one in my humble opinon. Anyways, I'd like to read the comments of what others think about this idea down below & thank you all for your time.
P.S: Also, this is the command I used on showdown to test this out if anyone was curious about that:
/challenge gen2nu @@@ -Xatu, -Weezing, -Primeape, -Dewgong, -Pineco, -Chinchou, -Ninetales, -Kingler, -Hitmonlee, -Dugtrio, -Sudowoodo, -Rapidash, -Magnemite, -Octillery, -Stantler, -Wigglytuff, -Fearow, -Magmar, -Flareon, -Lickitung, -Azumarill, -Gloom, -Dunsparce, -Farfetch'd, -Arbok, -Porygon, -Shuckle, -Graveler, -Exeggcute, -Pupitar, -Persian, -Pidgeot, -Ledian, -Raticate, -Houndour, -Dragonair, -Hitmonchan, -Sneasel, -Furret, -Seadra, -Murkrow, -Venomoth, -Poliwhirl, -Drowzee, -Elekid, -Magcargo, -Tangela, -Abra, -Cubone, -Seaking, -Voltorb, -Aipom, -Machoke, -Flaaffy, -Clefairy, -Rhyhorn, -Omanyte, -Gastly, -Noctowl, -Sunflora, -Hitmontop, -Beedrill, -Charmeleon, -Golbat, -Eevee, -Ariados, -Corsola, -Slowpoke, -Psyduck, -Ponyta, -Mantine, -Staryu, -Poliwag, -Quilava, -Wartortle
I figured I'd let you know that me and the rest of the GSC ZU council have discussed the potential of a Delibird unban/test, and the conclusion at the moment is that it's not going to happen at least at the moment. One reason being dropping Pokemon just because people want them dropped is not in line with tiering procedures. And anytime that Pokemon have been randomly dropped to be tested, like for example the Aerodactyl test in GSC UU it was to help fix glaring issues people had with the metagame, but GSC ZU is a healthy and balanced metagame. In conclusion dropping Delibird goes against standard tiering procedures, so it will most likely not happen anytime soon. But if you are online and want roomtours of it hosted I'm sure zu room mods don't mind.
I don't mean any disrespect to the GSC ZU council when I say this, but positing that it's a healthy or balanced metagame feels a little bit disingenuous. I understand wanting to remain uniform in tiering procedures with the rest of the website, but the fact of the matter is that the metagame heavily revolves around optimizing your odds of freezing the opponent's Croconaw with your own, with most games essentially coming down to stalling pp (not accounting for misplays). The fundamental issue is that even with the multiple thief mons in the tier, the absence of spikes makes forcing rests difficult, thus allowing for Croconaw to fish for freeze more often. The other common counterplay to bulky waters is explosion, which is present in exactly 4 mons in the tier, two of which's typing overlap and all of which struggle to break past other pokes (namely Bayleef and Growlithe, but even more offensive pokes like Tentacool or Nidorino). Having played the tier in ZU Olympiad and discussed it a fair amount with classic winner Monai , I can (with some degree of confidence) assert that either Croc should be banned or that spikes should be freed; given that the Flintstones crocodile is responsible for checking a plethora of offensive threats, namely Magby and Smoochum, I find the latter solution to be preferable. The ZU community's consensus on GSC is reflective of its level of competivity, with the majority's sentiments ranging anywhere from indifference to disdain. Given the precedent that now stands after Aerodactyl being freed to UU, I believe it would be prudent for the GSC ZU council to at least host a tournament with Delibird freed to see how the metagame would evolve in its presence; DPP OU conducted a similar test with Latias, and that proved to be successful. I think it would be a shame for this tier to not develop as fully as it could because of inertia.
I want to get a response as soon as possible to not leave people in the dark. I'll see if I can get a discussion going with the GSC ZU council about this. I can not really give a time frame for anything though. I'm gonna speak for myself here for the next part, not the council but I'm extremely hesistant to free Delibird and hope you can understand wanting to follow tiering procedures. I personally wouldn't be opposed to maybe considering an action against Croconaw or at the very least trying some tours without Croconaw. Realistically I think of the 2 options you want, action against Croconaw is more likely then freeing Delibird but I'm hesistant on both.
Hey people, I've been wanting to talk about some really cool underrated mons that i've been using that utilize boom to make progress versus a lot of these stally archetypes that have been commonplace in the tier for a bit now. And one of these guys is my good old rock, and the mon that inspired me to make this post in the first place...
Geodude! Now Geodude is not top tier by any means. It faces competition from Pokemon such as Cubone and Rhyhorn for its niche. But, Geodude definitely has a niche in the current ADV meta thanks to one move; Explosion. This move is superb for more offensive teams that can use the momentum that Explosion gives them to overwhelm the opponent. Geodude's boom is able to OHKO basically anything in the tier unless they resist it, but Geodude's STAB Earthquake hits Normal resists/immunities like Aron, Shuppet, and Rhyhorn incredibly hard. Lileep is neutral to Earthquake but the combo of Earthquake + Explosion does a minimum of 95% to Lileep, meaning just tiniest of chip will make Lileep not able to survive this, and this is assuming minimum rolls, you have a very high chance of just straight up killing Lileep. Because of this, Geodude is really good at trading and can help Pokemon like Farfetch'd and Mankey perform much better when removing their counters like Koffing and Lileep.
Cubone can also do similar things without having to boom, but the second part to Geodude is the other thing that makes it stand out from Cubone; its defensive typing. Geodude part Rock-type gives it a Normal and Flying resist. This allows Geodude to come in on Choice Locked Normal- and Flying-types like Pidgeotto and Aipom or just defensive Pokemon like Delcatty much easier, which is something that Cubone cannot do. This gives Geodude a nice little niche in the tier as an offensive boomer when paired with Pokemon like Wailmer to create one of my favourite teams to play right now, Boom Offense teams. If I were to rank Geodude, I think I would be tempted to put it somewhere in the C+ ranks.
Voltorb is another Pokemon i've been trying to use for Boom tactics. Voltorb is much like Elekid, and is basically almost completely outclassed by it outside of being a rain setter. However, here comes Explosion again. Elekid is usually hard walled by Pokemon such as Dustox and Delcatty. But thanks to Voltorb's access to Explosion, it can attempt to break through them with Boom, taking large chunks out of them or depending on how much Atk you invest (Voltorb can afford to not run max speed since the other fastest mon in the tier is Luvdisc which is not really that scary leaving some extra EV's to invest into Atk for Boom damage), you can potentially OHKO them. Voltorb is definitely not as good at trading as Geodude is but its something I have been experimenting with at the moment with Peteya Berry breaking sets with Hidden Power Ice to help versus Lileep and Boom to break special walls or even clean if they are gone. It's a really interesting mon
Shoutouts
There are a few other Pokemon that I like to feature on Boom teams that I will briefly mention now as they are already quite commonly known already.
- Great boomer, has great bulk and checks Pokemon like Rhyhorn well while having a powerful boom as well.
- An excellent lead for Boom teams against the common Fire-type leads in the meta, it has powerful Water attacks and Self-Destruct to make any Water-type checks attempting to switch in think twice.
and 
- These are just boomers for Sun to try and take down Castform and Poisons, but Sun isn't the greatest team style atm imo since the meta is hostile to it but can still work
- Very weak boomer but I had to shout it out because someone in room tours was running a Choice Banded Nosepass with boom and I thought it was super funny.
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RBY ZU TODAY After going through a massive tier shift and a ban slate, the current version of RBY ZU is almost unrecognizable from its previous incarnations. This is ultimately for the best, as RBY ZU is easily in its most playable state and genuinely pretty fun. Here I'll go over the general threats of the metagame and then potential shifts in the future.
Note that there is a solid amount of debate to be had over placements, especially given how relatively new the meta is. Pokemon are ordered within ranks.
The Big 3 Magmar, Scyther, and Arbok make up what I'd like to call ZU's Big 3. Their game-to-game excellence makes them either undroppable or very close to being so. Every team needs counterplay to each of them to not fall apart immediately.
Out of the three, I've seen Magmar as the most consistent. Its excellent base 93 Speed and spammable Fire Blast make it an instant threat the moment it's on the field. However, its true claim to fame is its versatility: Magmar can spread paralysis with Body Slam, surprise Normal-type moves with Counter, and threaten huge damage against Fire resists with Hyper Beam. When it switches in, Magmar is not just threatening with its damage, but with the sheer amount of options it has.
However, Magmar's most devious tool is Confuse Ray. By forcing its foe out, or in a pinch against slower foes, it can turn the game into a slot machine and often win otherwise hopeless matchups. While Magmar isn't that bulky, it has pretty good Special bulk by ZU standards, and due to RBY EV mechanics it can generally take at least one physical hit. Confuse Ray is not something that can be spammed, but it is unmatched as a disruption tool.
Magmar is potent both as a lead and in the back. As a lead, it utilizes its instant power, Speed, Confuse Ray, and Fire Blasts' nasty 30% burn chance beat most foes and dissuade them from switching out. In the back, Magmar is an excellent revenge killer and mid-game wallbreaker, and can it even act as a cleaner if the opposing team is sufficiently paralyzed. Magmar has few bad matchups: Flareon and Slowpoke can try to take it on one-on-one, but the former has to watch out for Counter and the latter cannot switch in and will be put into revenge killing range even if it wins. Primeape and Scyther can revenge kill Magmar, but they cannot OHKO it unboosted and hate taking Fire Blast, which notably OHKOes Scyther.
Is Magmar banworthy? As powerful as it is, it's Magmar's consistency and versatility that makes it great, not its ability to 6-0 teams. It will always make your team better but it's hardly a one-Pokemon army. However, Confuse Ray has the tendency to be extremely uncompetitive, so as the meta develops we have to see if it becomes too much. Beyond this flaw, Magmar really is the perfect "best Pokemon"—not overpowered but always useful.
However, Magmar's most devious tool is Confuse Ray. By forcing its foe out, or in a pinch against slower foes, it can turn the game into a slot machine and often win otherwise hopeless matchups. While Magmar isn't that bulky, it has pretty good Special bulk by ZU standards, and due to RBY EV mechanics it can generally take at least one physical hit. Confuse Ray is not something that can be spammed, but it is unmatched as a disruption tool.
Magmar is potent both as a lead and in the back. As a lead, it utilizes its instant power, Speed, Confuse Ray, and Fire Blasts' nasty 30% burn chance beat most foes and dissuade them from switching out. In the back, Magmar is an excellent revenge killer and mid-game wallbreaker, and can it even act as a cleaner if the opposing team is sufficiently paralyzed. Magmar has few bad matchups: Flareon and Slowpoke can try to take it on one-on-one, but the former has to watch out for Counter and the latter cannot switch in and will be put into revenge killing range even if it wins. Primeape and Scyther can revenge kill Magmar, but they cannot OHKO it unboosted and hate taking Fire Blast, which notably OHKOes Scyther.
Is Magmar banworthy? As powerful as it is, it's Magmar's consistency and versatility that makes it great, not its ability to 6-0 teams. It will always make your team better but it's hardly a one-Pokemon army. However, Confuse Ray has the tendency to be extremely uncompetitive, so as the meta develops we have to see if it becomes too much. Beyond this flaw, Magmar really is the perfect "best Pokemon"—not overpowered but always useful.
With Electrode rising, Scyther is the single fastest Pokemon in the tier. And it's no slouch offensively either, with its massive base 110 Attack, spammable Slash, and devastatingly powerful Swords Dance + Hyper Beam combo. Scyther isn't frail either, with its physical bulk letting it survive attacks like Primeape's quad-super effective Rock Slide. If your team is every in need for an endgame cleaner, it can rarely do better than Scyther.
Scyther being a contender for #1 has been a long time coming, with every change to ZU has progressively making Scyther better and better. The rising of Gastly eliminated a counter that would be seen on every team. That same shift brought down Arcanine, Sandslash, and Electrode, but all of them have been banned or rose since.
However, Scyther's biggest flaw, its atrocious movepool, is still present and is the only thing holding it back from being completely overpowered. It exclusively has Normal-type moves and Wing Attack, leaving it unable to break through Rock-types even at +2. Our Rocks are hardly amazing—Rhyhorn and Onix are pretty mediocre—but they do still do a very good job at switching into and punishing Scyther that try to sweep too early. While they aren't as reliant, other foes like Magmar and Flareon can 1v1 Scyther in a pinch too, with their Fire Blast notably OHKOing.
In its moveset, Slash, Swords Dance, and Hyper Beam are undroppable. Scyther doesn't have many other good options for its 4th move. Agility is arguably its best choice, as while it'd seem impractical to boost the Speed of the fastest Pokemon in the tier, Agility lets Scyther negate the paralysis Speed drop. Otherwise, Toxic can give it some midgame utility against Rock-types.
It's really hard to say if Scyther is #1, or if it's banworthy. On one hand, Scyther can steamroll through entire teams, but on the other hand it is walled pretty consistently by usable enough Pokemon, and it can be 1v1ed by a some of common foes. Either way, Scyther's continued excellence cannot be understated, and alongside Arbok it can be seen as the face of RBY ZU throughout all it phases.
Scyther being a contender for #1 has been a long time coming, with every change to ZU has progressively making Scyther better and better. The rising of Gastly eliminated a counter that would be seen on every team. That same shift brought down Arcanine, Sandslash, and Electrode, but all of them have been banned or rose since.
However, Scyther's biggest flaw, its atrocious movepool, is still present and is the only thing holding it back from being completely overpowered. It exclusively has Normal-type moves and Wing Attack, leaving it unable to break through Rock-types even at +2. Our Rocks are hardly amazing—Rhyhorn and Onix are pretty mediocre—but they do still do a very good job at switching into and punishing Scyther that try to sweep too early. While they aren't as reliant, other foes like Magmar and Flareon can 1v1 Scyther in a pinch too, with their Fire Blast notably OHKOing.
In its moveset, Slash, Swords Dance, and Hyper Beam are undroppable. Scyther doesn't have many other good options for its 4th move. Agility is arguably its best choice, as while it'd seem impractical to boost the Speed of the fastest Pokemon in the tier, Agility lets Scyther negate the paralysis Speed drop. Otherwise, Toxic can give it some midgame utility against Rock-types.
It's really hard to say if Scyther is #1, or if it's banworthy. On one hand, Scyther can steamroll through entire teams, but on the other hand it is walled pretty consistently by usable enough Pokemon, and it can be 1v1ed by a some of common foes. Either way, Scyther's continued excellence cannot be understated, and alongside Arbok it can be seen as the face of RBY ZU throughout all it phases.
The menace of ZU's first days, Arbok continues its streak of excellence, but to a lesser extent. Its tried and true Glare + Wrap combo lets it act as a self-sufficient threat, take advantage of its teammate's paralysis spreading, and support its team all at the same time. Earthquake remains an excellent attack due to the teams often running numerous of Fire- and Poison-types. And its other options are quite decent as well: Mega Drain lets it seriously threaten Rock-types, Rock Slide mauls Butterfree and targets Scyther, and Hyper Beam is an all-around excellent finisher. These traits make Arbok a great lead as well, as it can Wrap slower foes to bring a teammate in safely, or just start Glaring and Wrapping.
However, Arbok is hardly the nightmarish monster it was in ZU's old days, despite Arcanine and Sandslash being gone. While Scyther and Magmar hate being paralyzed, they easily revenge kill Arbok; the former can also threaten it with a burn. However, the bigger change is the fact that bulkier threats are more free to use. Marowak, Vileplume, Slowpoke, etc. are all foes Arbok can't feasibly Wrap to death before being hit back. In the past Pokemon like Gastly, Arcanine, and Sandslash typically forced these Pokemon's attention, but now all our bulky threats can focus on Arbok instead. Arbok's consistency issues revolving around Glare and Wrap haven't gone away either. Arbok is better than it was in the Arcanine/Sandslash meta, though it's balanced at the moment and in my opinion actually a bit worse than Scyther and Magmar due to its accuracy issues.
However, Arbok is hardly the nightmarish monster it was in ZU's old days, despite Arcanine and Sandslash being gone. While Scyther and Magmar hate being paralyzed, they easily revenge kill Arbok; the former can also threaten it with a burn. However, the bigger change is the fact that bulkier threats are more free to use. Marowak, Vileplume, Slowpoke, etc. are all foes Arbok can't feasibly Wrap to death before being hit back. In the past Pokemon like Gastly, Arcanine, and Sandslash typically forced these Pokemon's attention, but now all our bulky threats can focus on Arbok instead. Arbok's consistency issues revolving around Glare and Wrap haven't gone away either. Arbok is better than it was in the Arcanine/Sandslash meta, though it's balanced at the moment and in my opinion actually a bit worse than Scyther and Magmar due to its accuracy issues.
Tier Staples
To some, my placement of Slowpoke might seem somewhat low. After all, it has the single most broken set of tools in the tier: excellent and spammable STABs in Water and Psychic, with the latter only being resisted by itself, Thunder Wave, and Amnesia. Once on the field, Slowpoke is effectively a ticking time bomb, forcing the opponent to scramble together whatever offenses they have left in order to KO it before it smashes through their team. And Slowpoke's combination of a boosting move and Thunder Wave lets it reapply the stat drop on foes, letting it actually outspeed them.
However, Slowpoke's base stats hold it back a lot. While its physical bulk is quite decent, its initially terrible Special leaves Slowpoke taking huge damage even from resisted attacked like Magmar's Fire Blast, and these stats makes it reliant on setting up to do any damage. However, Slowpoke's Speed is an even bigger issue, since it's the slowest Pokemon in the game. Every Pokemon outspeeds it, and while Thunder Wave does help, it does not stop unparalyzed revenge killers or sleep users. Thus, Slowpoke is generally best used as a wallbreaker, not a sweeper, forcing KOs or paralysis on key threats and paving the way for a cleaner like Scyther.
Slowpoke is nothing short of excellent, but its lack of versatility, need for setup, and all-or-nothing nature holds it back just enough for it to not be on the same level as the Pokemon above it. It's worth nothing that I've seen some sets use Rest, and while I think ZU is too fast for that, only time will confirm its viability. Slowpoke probably would've been broken if not for its Speed, but at the moment it just has to settle for being really good.
However, Slowpoke's base stats hold it back a lot. While its physical bulk is quite decent, its initially terrible Special leaves Slowpoke taking huge damage even from resisted attacked like Magmar's Fire Blast, and these stats makes it reliant on setting up to do any damage. However, Slowpoke's Speed is an even bigger issue, since it's the slowest Pokemon in the game. Every Pokemon outspeeds it, and while Thunder Wave does help, it does not stop unparalyzed revenge killers or sleep users. Thus, Slowpoke is generally best used as a wallbreaker, not a sweeper, forcing KOs or paralysis on key threats and paving the way for a cleaner like Scyther.
Slowpoke is nothing short of excellent, but its lack of versatility, need for setup, and all-or-nothing nature holds it back just enough for it to not be on the same level as the Pokemon above it. It's worth nothing that I've seen some sets use Rest, and while I think ZU is too fast for that, only time will confirm its viability. Slowpoke probably would've been broken if not for its Speed, but at the moment it just has to settle for being really good.
Vileplume's huge bulk and access to Sleep Powder make it the tier's best sleeper. Basically nothing can OHKO it, so barring Sleep Powder's accuracy, it will put something to sleep. Vileplume has a good amount of utility after the fact, notably with the ability to spread paralysis using Stun Spore and Body Slam. Its bulk and typing also give it a good matchup against foes like Arbok and Primeape.
Vileplume's biggest flaw is its less than stellar offensive presence. If it runs Stun Spore, then its Mega Drain and Body Slam do minimal damage to most foes. It can trade Stun Spore and Mega Drain for Swords Dance and Hyper Beam, but then it's walled by Rock-types and still pretty easy to revenge kill due to its bad Speed.
Vileplume's section is really short because it's a pretty simple Pokemon. It just comes in, sleeps something, and tries to make as much progress after the fact. Sometimes teams may want a sleeper with more utility outside of that, but Vileplume far from useless after sleep, and as a sleeper Vileplume is by far the most consistent.
Vileplume's biggest flaw is its less than stellar offensive presence. If it runs Stun Spore, then its Mega Drain and Body Slam do minimal damage to most foes. It can trade Stun Spore and Mega Drain for Swords Dance and Hyper Beam, but then it's walled by Rock-types and still pretty easy to revenge kill due to its bad Speed.
Vileplume's section is really short because it's a pretty simple Pokemon. It just comes in, sleeps something, and tries to make as much progress after the fact. Sometimes teams may want a sleeper with more utility outside of that, but Vileplume far from useless after sleep, and as a sleeper Vileplume is by far the most consistent.
Despite having the highest BST in PU, let alone ZU, Flareon is still outclassed by a Fire-type in Magmar. However, Flareon has finally regained some of its former glory after Arcanine's ban. Its enormous Attack and Special give it an edge in many areas—notably as something that demolishes slower foes and matches up decently against Magmar itself. Nothing except the unviable Kabuto can ever hope to switch into Flareon's devastatingly powerful attacks.
However, Flareon's Speed issues and eh physical bulk continue to haunt it. Even if its attacking stats are lower, Magmar's Speed generally lets it fire off more attacks, often giving it a greater damage output. Flareon's worse Speed also makes it much easier to revenge kill, especially due to its Earthquake weakness. Magmar has similar issues, but its Speed lets it take on more foes even at low health. Flareon's movepool is also inferior. Beyond the obligatory Fire Blast and Body Slam, Hyper Beam is generally its best bet. Then, it has the options of the unreliable Fire Spin, the difficult-to-use Reflect, and the situational Quick Attack. Flareon has everything to get by, but this is worse than Magmar, which has arguably the best movepool in the tier.
I know the paragraph about Flareon's negatives is twice as long as its positives, but Flareon's excellence is really self-explanatory. It hits super hard and has the bulk to take on so many threats, but is just isn't as flexible as the best Pokemon in the tier.
However, Flareon's Speed issues and eh physical bulk continue to haunt it. Even if its attacking stats are lower, Magmar's Speed generally lets it fire off more attacks, often giving it a greater damage output. Flareon's worse Speed also makes it much easier to revenge kill, especially due to its Earthquake weakness. Magmar has similar issues, but its Speed lets it take on more foes even at low health. Flareon's movepool is also inferior. Beyond the obligatory Fire Blast and Body Slam, Hyper Beam is generally its best bet. Then, it has the options of the unreliable Fire Spin, the difficult-to-use Reflect, and the situational Quick Attack. Flareon has everything to get by, but this is worse than Magmar, which has arguably the best movepool in the tier.
I know the paragraph about Flareon's negatives is twice as long as its positives, but Flareon's excellence is really self-explanatory. It hits super hard and has the bulk to take on so many threats, but is just isn't as flexible as the best Pokemon in the tier.
After its viability fell off a cliff with Sandslash dropping, Marowak has managed to regain its former glory. High physical bulk and a strong Earthquake let it take on just about every physical attacker ZU has to offer, while Blizzard lets it slam Scyther and Pidgeot. Counter is also an effective way in dissuading Normal-type attackers from running unopposed. With a great matchup against 2/3 of the Big 3, Marowak is a force to be reckoned with.
However, Marowak's low Special and Speed hold it back considerably. Most special attackers easily beat it one-on-one, even the Ground-weak Flareon and Magmar. Marowak also struggles a ton with Vileplume, which has little trouble switching in to use status or Mega Drain, with the former also dissuading Marowak from switching out. Marowak matches up super well with many top threats, but it has to be wary of many shaky to downright awful matchups.
However, Marowak's low Special and Speed hold it back considerably. Most special attackers easily beat it one-on-one, even the Ground-weak Flareon and Magmar. Marowak also struggles a ton with Vileplume, which has little trouble switching in to use status or Mega Drain, with the former also dissuading Marowak from switching out. Marowak matches up super well with many top threats, but it has to be wary of many shaky to downright awful matchups.
Primeape is similar to Magmar in a way, with it just being super consistent. With Speed only trumped by Scyther and the unviable Voltorb, Primeape can use its high Attack and great movepool to threaten the majority of the tier. This most notably includes Rock Slide 2HKOing Magmar and Scyther, Thunderbolt slamming Slowpoke, and Body Slam spreading paralysis. Submission isn't a great move, but its more than workable as a STAB on Primeape. Primeape is a usable lead, notably with an advantageous matchup against Magmar, but it's an even better revenge killer.
Primeape has two big flaws. For one, it struggles a lot against Poison-types. Arbok despises paralysis, but others like Vileplume couldn't care less about Primeape's attacks, sometimes turning it into an outright liability. This is especially problematic if it's used as a lead. The other is that Primeape's damage output just isn't that crazy. It hits hard, but nothing like top dogs Scyther and Magmar. Primeape is almost always useful, but it isn't as instantly dangerous as some other notable threats.
Primeape has two big flaws. For one, it struggles a lot against Poison-types. Arbok despises paralysis, but others like Vileplume couldn't care less about Primeape's attacks, sometimes turning it into an outright liability. This is especially problematic if it's used as a lead. The other is that Primeape's damage output just isn't that crazy. It hits hard, but nothing like top dogs Scyther and Magmar. Primeape is almost always useful, but it isn't as instantly dangerous as some other notable threats.
Unfortunately, the days where Pidgeot could be considered around equal to Scyther have long since passed. Magmar dropping made the gap between 91 and 105 Speed a very big deal, and the lack of Gastly has allowed Scyther's sweeping potential to be a much stronger selling point. Pidgeot will never be able to replace Scyther or even rival it as it did in the past.
However, Pidgeot is still very good in its own right. 91 Speed is nothing to scoff at, and Pidgeot is still very threatening with its powerful Double-Edge and Hyper Beam; the latter of which is even stronger than unboosted Scyther's. Pidgeot's higher special bulk, lack of a Fire weakness, and lack of a Rock double weakness give it a more flexible matchup against Fire- and Rock-types, the latter of which it can threaten with Toxic or Mirror Move. Pidgeot unfortunately lives under Scyther's shadow, but it still carves out a niche thanks to its better midgame utility and initally more powerful Hyper Beam.
However, Pidgeot is still very good in its own right. 91 Speed is nothing to scoff at, and Pidgeot is still very threatening with its powerful Double-Edge and Hyper Beam; the latter of which is even stronger than unboosted Scyther's. Pidgeot's higher special bulk, lack of a Fire weakness, and lack of a Rock double weakness give it a more flexible matchup against Fire- and Rock-types, the latter of which it can threaten with Toxic or Mirror Move. Pidgeot unfortunately lives under Scyther's shadow, but it still carves out a niche thanks to its better midgame utility and initally more powerful Hyper Beam.
Other Notable Pokemon
Despite the fact that Hitmonlee is much better with the bulky behemoths Arcanine and Sandslash gone, it's still completely outclassed by Primeape. Like before, while Lee has higher Attack and the much better Fighting STAB in High Jump Kick, Primeape's better Speed and coverage make it the superior offensive threat. While Primeape's bulk is nothing to write home about, Hitmonlee's abysmal 50/53/35 bulk makes it insanely frail even in ZU.
However, Hitmonlee can be used alongside Primeape, where it's decent. High Jump Kick and Body Slam threaten the majority of the tier, and notably the Fighting-type duo can be used together to soften up each other's checks. However, Hitmonlee is a mediocre revenge killer, as being able to outspeed Magmar is a big factor in Primeape's niche. Ultimately Hitmonlee can never be used alone, alongside Primeape it's very solid.
However, Hitmonlee can be used alongside Primeape, where it's decent. High Jump Kick and Body Slam threaten the majority of the tier, and notably the Fighting-type duo can be used together to soften up each other's checks. However, Hitmonlee is a mediocre revenge killer, as being able to outspeed Magmar is a big factor in Primeape's niche. Ultimately Hitmonlee can never be used alone, alongside Primeape it's very solid.
Poliwag remains as inconsistent as ever. It is the fastest sleeper in the tier, which when combined with Amnesia and spammable Water STAB make it a terrifying sweeper. Being the fastest sleeper automatically gives Poliwag a niche as a lead, though it's arguably even more effective in the back as a cleaner. On the other hand, Poliwag relies on Hypnosis and has terrible bulk, meaning it can just as easily miss and die without doing anything.
Fortunately, even with Arcanine gone the tier has plenty of threats that can handle it. Scyther, Magmar, and Primeape all outspeed and can easily revenge kill Poliwag if it tries to sweep. Other bulky foes like Vileplume can also stand up to it after Hypnosis has been used. This is all combined with Poliwag's horrendous matchup against Slowpoke, which resists all of Poliwag's attacks. As infuriating as Poliwag's RNG is, once again the tier has found many ways to handle it, forcing it to settle as a very high-risk high-reward Pokemon.
Fortunately, even with Arcanine gone the tier has plenty of threats that can handle it. Scyther, Magmar, and Primeape all outspeed and can easily revenge kill Poliwag if it tries to sweep. Other bulky foes like Vileplume can also stand up to it after Hypnosis has been used. This is all combined with Poliwag's horrendous matchup against Slowpoke, which resists all of Poliwag's attacks. As infuriating as Poliwag's RNG is, once again the tier has found many ways to handle it, forcing it to settle as a very high-risk high-reward Pokemon.
Rock-types have one primary purpose: wall the crap out of Scyther, and sometimes Pidgeot. They do this role extremely well, holding back the best sweeper in the tier. However, Rhyhorn and Onix tend to lose to just about every other matchup. Their crappy Special bulk leave often leave them OHKOed by the tier's plethora of Water- and Grass-type attacks, and 2-3HKOed by Magmar and Flareon's resisted Fire Blast. Additionally, just about every other foe carries Earthquake or a Fighting-type move, which generally doesn't OHKO but still causes them to lose the one-on-one. The Rocks aren't totally useless against other Pokemon, but they need to play extremely carefully.
Beyond countering Scyther and Pidgeot, the Rock-types function quite differently. Rhyhorn's high Attack makes it quite good at making progress against the opposing team as it forces its foe out. It's a notable user of Substitute, which greatly reduces the need for prediction. While it's held back by its awful Speed, Rhyhorn is a nightmare for paralyzed teams to deal with.
Onix on the other hand can use Bind to try to pivot around bad matchups or as it forces Scyther/Pidgeot out. It's notably good at this thanks to its base 70 Speed, which lets it not be helpless against foes like Marowak and Vileplume. Onix's hilariously low Attack stat leaves it struggling to damage foes not weak to Earthquake, but the threat of Explosion does help in some matchups.
Overall, the Rock-types are very specific in their roles and thus suffer as a result. However, while they aren't mandatory, the importance of their ability to deny the best Pokemon in the tier notable progress is exceptionally important. Rhyhorn and Onix in some ways hold the tier together, and they're very much worth using as a result.
Beyond countering Scyther and Pidgeot, the Rock-types function quite differently. Rhyhorn's high Attack makes it quite good at making progress against the opposing team as it forces its foe out. It's a notable user of Substitute, which greatly reduces the need for prediction. While it's held back by its awful Speed, Rhyhorn is a nightmare for paralyzed teams to deal with.
Onix on the other hand can use Bind to try to pivot around bad matchups or as it forces Scyther/Pidgeot out. It's notably good at this thanks to its base 70 Speed, which lets it not be helpless against foes like Marowak and Vileplume. Onix's hilariously low Attack stat leaves it struggling to damage foes not weak to Earthquake, but the threat of Explosion does help in some matchups.
Overall, the Rock-types are very specific in their roles and thus suffer as a result. However, while they aren't mandatory, the importance of their ability to deny the best Pokemon in the tier notable progress is exceptionally important. Rhyhorn and Onix in some ways hold the tier together, and they're very much worth using as a result.
Butterfree's niche has not changed in the slightest: it's the fastest Sleep Powder user available, hitting a strong balance of speed and accurate sleep access that no other Pokemon has. Stun Spore is another fantastic option that makes it threatening even after sleep clause is active. Otherwise Butterfree is pretty bad, with its low bulk and terrible typing leaving it threatened by just about every offensive threat in the tier, and while access to Psychic and Mega Drain can help against some foes, it's not enough to seriously damage most of ZU. Butterfree is very much usable, but unlike Vileplume it struggles to find use after landing sleep.
The Lightning Round 
Like in my previous post about RBY ZU, C rank and below mons will get a short mention since they're usually pretty simple and underexplored.
These Poison-types suffered massively when Arcanine and Sandslash ruled the tier, so their bans leave them in a much more favorable position. With good bulk, strong elemental coverage, and Explosion, they are effective at threatening just about every foe they face. Between them, I'd bet Weezing would be slightly better, as its higher physical bulk can help it against common foes like Scyther, Arbok, and Primeape. However, Muk does possess the more powerful Explosion, and it can threaten the Rock-types more effectively with Mega Drain, as opposed to Weezing having to rely on Fire Blast. In the future, I can definitely see this duo rising in rank as the meta develops, as I feel they are pretty underrated here. While it's a dual powder spreader like a certain A+ mon, Vileplume's bulk and Hyper Beam are a huge factor in its viability, so Weepinbell lacking them leaves it largely outclassed. However, Razor Leaf lets it be much more effective at dealing with Water-types like Slowpoke and Poliwag, while Wrap can seriously punish slower and paralyzed foes. Weepinbell is a lot harder to fit on teams due to its frailty, but it's workable with support. Tentacool's massive 100 Special and excellent Water-type STAB make it extremely hard to switch into. This is combined with Blizzard nailing Grass-types and Wrap punishing slower foes. However, this is where Tentacool's good traits end. Its awful physical bulk and Earthquake weakness leave it threatened by a huge amount of the tier. Its middling 70 Speed leaves it outspeed by numerous foes, including all of the Big 3. While Wrap helps against slower targets, Tentacool lacks the power to get its targets into KO range before missing, and thus Tentacool can only really pivot against foes like Slowpoke and Vileplume.The D Ranks These Pokemon may seem to have niches, but for now they unfortunately have no solid place in the metagame. This could change as things develop, but I doubt it.
Things have unfortunately been grim since the bans. Parasect's main niche over Vileplume was its better matchup against Sandslash, so it being gone is a massive blow. Outside of Spore, Vileplume's better bulk and Speed leave it as the superior option. Additionally, Vileplume is only 2HKOed by Magmar and Flareon's Fire Blast, and while that isn't great, it's leagues better than Parasect being OHKOed. Magneton has the highest Special in the tier, great bulk, and the excellent Thunder Wave. However, its coverage is so bad it's on par with Scyther's. Its Electric/Normal moves leave it completely unable to harm Ground-types, and generally only able to threaten Grass-types with paralysis. 90% of teams will have at least one of Marowak, Vileplume, and Rhyhorn/Onix, with many having all three. To make matters worse, it has a weakness to the omnipresent Earthquake. As poor as Scyther's coverage is, it often sweeps entire teams once the Rock-type is removed. Magneton is walled by more Pokemon and will only be "pretty good" once it can finally do something. Machoke has decent physical bulk and good coverage in Earthquake and Fire Blast, but it's neither bulky enough nor strong enough to justify a role on most teams, while its low Speed makes it extremely easy to overwhelm.
These two Pokemon have a fast Thunder Wave and very little else. Voltorb is faster, notably outpacing Magmar, but Pikachu's ability to hit Ground-types with Surf likely makes it better. Otherwise, their awful bulk, low attacking stats, and weakness to Earthquake leaves them as liabilities. Unless ZU gets as centralized as it was during the Arbok/Gastly meta, these Electric-types should see no usage. Diglett excelled in the Gastly/Arbok meta due to how few Pokemon outsped it and the tier's tendency to stack 3+ Ground weaknesses per team. With Magmar and Scyther outspeeding Diglett and bulky Pokemon being less restricted in what they fight, Diglett probably has no place here.
Potential Shifts From PU 
To understand why the drops may happen, it's important to talk about the dynamics of PU. In the past Fearow and Rapidash were top threats, but the Rock-types Omanyte and Graveler held them in check. They weren't perfect—Graveler could only really wall Fearow, while Omanyte wasn't super hard to switch into—but in general they both switched into at least one of these foes and forced them out while damaging the switch-in. This was the reason why Arcanine dropped, as using two Fire-types was seen as too much of an investment, and Rapidash's Speed was generally preferred.
However, a few months ago Porygon dropped from NU. Porygon isn't 2HKOed by either Rock-type's STAB attacks and it can heal off the damage with Recover. All of a sudden this dynamic that held PU together was completely altered. Using Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine is much less punishable, seriously centralizing the tier around them. While this likely won't lead to any ZU Pokemon rising, excluding the BLs, it will likely drop some game-changing threats.
However, a few months ago Porygon dropped from NU. Porygon isn't 2HKOed by either Rock-type's STAB attacks and it can heal off the damage with Recover. All of a sudden this dynamic that held PU together was completely altered. Using Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine is much less punishable, seriously centralizing the tier around them. While this likely won't lead to any ZU Pokemon rising, excluding the BLs, it will likely drop some game-changing threats.
It's important to remember, that while less splashable, Omanyte and Graveler are still decent in PU. They can still wall the aforementioned trio and are especially effective in endgame scenarios as a result. Graveler can also use Explosion to have a good shot at OHKOing Porygon, and while you'd lose your Fearow counter, Porygon could possibly be good enough to the point where this can be worth it. What I mean to say is that this duo isn't 100% guaranteed to drop.
If they do fall down here, these Rocks can be seen as upgrades to the Rock-types we already have here. Rhyhorn is actually marginally more physically bulky than Graveler, but slightly better Speed, Special, Attack, and most importantly access to Explosion make Graveler the superior option. Onix still retains its unique roles, barring Explosion, but I doubt it'd see much use when Graveler is such a formidable progress-maker with its Boom. Counter is another interesting tool that can punish Normal-type attackers. Graveler wouldn't radically change ZU's dynamics, but it is a straight up upgrade for Rhyhorn.
Omanyte is the much more interesting drop. With a Water typing and high Special, it not only walls Scyther but can also take on Magmar and Flareon. It is effectively Kabuto but actually good. Magmar can 3HKO with Seismic Toss, but it already wants 5 moves, let alone a 6th. Magmar and Flareon would hardly be rendered unviable, especially since Omanyte may struggle with taking on all the Fire-types and Scyther, but it has the makings of a top-tier defensive staple.
However, neither Omanyte and Graveler will be broken in any way. Grass- and Water-types destroy both—Omanyte is neutral to Water but has no good way to damage Water-types—and while Graveler's Explosion mind games are scary, it cannot afford to boom too early and risk Scyther running unopposed. While I'm not certain these Pokemon will drop, they look like nothing but improvements to the meta.
If they do fall down here, these Rocks can be seen as upgrades to the Rock-types we already have here. Rhyhorn is actually marginally more physically bulky than Graveler, but slightly better Speed, Special, Attack, and most importantly access to Explosion make Graveler the superior option. Onix still retains its unique roles, barring Explosion, but I doubt it'd see much use when Graveler is such a formidable progress-maker with its Boom. Counter is another interesting tool that can punish Normal-type attackers. Graveler wouldn't radically change ZU's dynamics, but it is a straight up upgrade for Rhyhorn.
Omanyte is the much more interesting drop. With a Water typing and high Special, it not only walls Scyther but can also take on Magmar and Flareon. It is effectively Kabuto but actually good. Magmar can 3HKO with Seismic Toss, but it already wants 5 moves, let alone a 6th. Magmar and Flareon would hardly be rendered unviable, especially since Omanyte may struggle with taking on all the Fire-types and Scyther, but it has the makings of a top-tier defensive staple.
However, neither Omanyte and Graveler will be broken in any way. Grass- and Water-types destroy both—Omanyte is neutral to Water but has no good way to damage Water-types—and while Graveler's Explosion mind games are scary, it cannot afford to boom too early and risk Scyther running unopposed. While I'm not certain these Pokemon will drop, they look like nothing but improvements to the meta.
Abra suffered massively with the Rocks falling out of favor, as it's outsped and OHKOed by Rapidash, Arcanine, and Fearow. Porygon has also led to a more paralysis-heavy metagame, something Abra despises.
If Abra were to drop, the tier would be taken in a much more offensive direction. Trying to play steadily just won't work in the face of Abra's gargantuan 105 Special and Psychic's chance for a Special drop. And Abra can even cripple it foes with Thunder Wave. With only one other Psychic-type here, and Poison- and Fighting-types being very common, the tier will be reliant on Scyther, Magmar, Pidgeot, and to some extent Primeape revenge killing Abra, as well as Slowpoke being the one thing that can kind of switch into it. Arbok will massively fall in rank, and Parasect will probably be much better due to its lack of a Psychic weakness.
Will Abra be broken? Hard to say, as the tier still has numerous Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO it, but it will centralize the tier and make it way more trade-heavy. It won't ruin the tier, but Abra will take it in a direction I don't really like.
If Abra were to drop, the tier would be taken in a much more offensive direction. Trying to play steadily just won't work in the face of Abra's gargantuan 105 Special and Psychic's chance for a Special drop. And Abra can even cripple it foes with Thunder Wave. With only one other Psychic-type here, and Poison- and Fighting-types being very common, the tier will be reliant on Scyther, Magmar, Pidgeot, and to some extent Primeape revenge killing Abra, as well as Slowpoke being the one thing that can kind of switch into it. Arbok will massively fall in rank, and Parasect will probably be much better due to its lack of a Psychic weakness.
Will Abra be broken? Hard to say, as the tier still has numerous Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO it, but it will centralize the tier and make it way more trade-heavy. It won't ruin the tier, but Abra will take it in a direction I don't really like.
Pinsir is in a similar situation to Abra. It is bodied by the Fire-types and Fearow, so it hates them being so omnipresent. However, while Pinsir has fallen from grace, it still isn't horrible in PU and has a good chance of staying, though my faith in such a hostile tier is low.
In ZU, Pinsir would be an absolute monster. Notably outspeeding Arbok, it'd be an excellent wallbreaker with its brutally powerful Slash, and unlike its fellow Bug Scyther, it has Submission and Seismic Toss to threaten Rock-types. Like Abra it'd make ZU much more offensive, probably even moreso since Pinsir has solid bulk and isn't as ruined by paralysis. Only Magmar can outspeed and OHKO Pinsir unboosted.
Out of all the drops, Pinsir is the most likely to be broken. It just hits way too hard for its coverage and Speed tier, and very few Pokemon can actually take it on one-on-one, centralizing the tier. It'd force ZU in a direction I'd hate, though at the very least it's the least likely to drop.
In ZU, Pinsir would be an absolute monster. Notably outspeeding Arbok, it'd be an excellent wallbreaker with its brutally powerful Slash, and unlike its fellow Bug Scyther, it has Submission and Seismic Toss to threaten Rock-types. Like Abra it'd make ZU much more offensive, probably even moreso since Pinsir has solid bulk and isn't as ruined by paralysis. Only Magmar can outspeed and OHKO Pinsir unboosted.
Out of all the drops, Pinsir is the most likely to be broken. It just hits way too hard for its coverage and Speed tier, and very few Pokemon can actually take it on one-on-one, centralizing the tier. It'd force ZU in a direction I'd hate, though at the very least it's the least likely to drop.
Closing Thoughts Overall, I really like this era of ZU. It's fast without being a tradefest or matchup fish, and no threat feels overbearing even if tiering action is something that can be discussed down the line. I do fear for the tier's health when PU inevitably drops at least some Pokemon, but I expect things to work out eventually, even if we need to ban a few things.
It's essential to note that changes beyond these drops are inevitable. UU has undergone massive tiering changes, which will slowly cause a cascade in NU, PU, and eventually here. However, these shifts could take years and could happen gradually, so we have plenty of time to relax and enjoy playing.
While this era of RBY ZU someday ending will be sad, at the moment the tier is in the best state it's ever been in. I highly recommend trying out the tier if you've got the time. Otherwise thanks for reading this post and have a swell day.
It's essential to note that changes beyond these drops are inevitable. UU has undergone massive tiering changes, which will slowly cause a cascade in NU, PU, and eventually here. However, these shifts could take years and could happen gradually, so we have plenty of time to relax and enjoy playing.
While this era of RBY ZU someday ending will be sad, at the moment the tier is in the best state it's ever been in. I highly recommend trying out the tier if you've got the time. Otherwise thanks for reading this post and have a swell day.
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Coming at ya with an ADV ZU VR update!
A ----> A+Chinchou has seen a steep increase in play as it can fit on a plethora of different offensive and balance builds. It's access to Thunder Wave allows it to cripple opposing Chinchou and a lot of other faster threats allowing your slower offensive threats like Nidorino, Cubone, and Rhyhorn a much easier time when attempting to make progress. Moreover, It's access to Hydro Pump 2HKO's almost everything that isn't specially defensive. This allows it to be threatening in its own right.
A- ----> ACompound Eyes in conjunction with Sleep Powder allow it to excel as a lead and as a late to mid game cleaner. Moreover, thanks to its great 80 base special attack and its access to Psychic, Poison-types think twice before switching in. Butterfree is a force to be reckoned with especially due to Sleep being so powerful.
B+ ----> A-Cubone has cemented itself as one of the most frightening breakers. Even letting this thing Fire off 1 of its attacking moves can be devastating for a majority of teams. Koffing takes around 52 from Double Edge meaning it is no longer a truly safe switchin. This coupled with Cubone being able to force a handful of switches and use Substitute to get a free turn on its supposed check make it a great wall breaker.
B+ ----> A-Sunflora fell off in usage and slowly began to rise once again. It's Sunny Beam set allows it to punch holes and clean opposing teams up with its monster 105 Special Attack. Additionally, its Specially defensive set can be used to great success as a way to check Elekid both Offensively and Defensively. Moreover, Growth can be used to take care or opposing Lileep and whatever else might try to wall it.
C- ----> A-The rise of Wailmer as a lead has been an extremely quick one. It often trades with leads it can't OHKO and if it can OHKO it can KO 2 mons making Wailmer an extremely fast way to make progress on offensive teams. It is definitely a defining Pokemon on offense due to its matchup against bulkier teams. This is thanks to its speed tier and access STAB Water Spout making it one of the scariest Pokemon if you've loaded up a bulky playstyle.
B ----> B+Nosepass possess a great amount of role compression allowing it to make a name for itself on Balance and Bulky Offense builds alike. Explosion allows it to remove Pokemon like Dustox and Delcatty while Thunder Wave and its resistance to normals allow it to cripple threats like Aipom and Pidgeotto fairly easily. Nosepass can also trap Magnemite and Aron and remove them with Earthquake. This is one pokemon that can do almost everything.
B ----> B+Voltorb boasts the fastest speed in the entirety of ADV ZU. This allows it to excel as a lead on Rain teams. Additionally, it can opt to relegate itself to a midgame breaker or late game cleaner thanks to its Sub Petaya set. Voltorb's ability Static frightens Quick Attack users looking to revenge and it comes equip with Explosion which can heavily damage specially defensive Pokemon. All these tools allow Voltorb to shine in the current metagame.
B- ----> BCroconaw's access to Swords Dance allows it to really shine when paired with status users like lead Aipom, Magnemite, Chinchou, and Butterfree. The Double-Edge Brick Break combo is the perfect coverage while Surf allows it to bust physically defensive Pokemon. Additionally Croconaw can run a special attacker set making scouting it imperative to minimize its damage output.
B- ----> BLuvdisc sports the second fastest speed in the meta, just behind Voltorb. This allows it to act as a great Petaya holder allowing it to clean through teams with Hydro Pump after its boost. Moreover, it can also act as a great Toxic user and Rain Dance setter.
C+ ----> BNidorino's STAB Sludge Bomb coupled with a base Attack just 2 points higher then Aipom allow it to solidify itself as a threatening physical wall breaker. It's often found on Balance or Bulky offense teams alongside a Thunder Wave users where it can make the most use of its potential as a breaker.
C+ ----> B-Mankey's Sub Salac set with Bulk Up allows it to become a threatening Berry Pokemon capable of cleaning thanks to its good Speed. Koffing is really the only 100% safe switch-in to Mankey.
C+ ----> B-Numel has seen a steady rise in usage particularly due to its awesome Fire- and Ground-type STAB. This allows it to send Koffing packing with Fire Blast while still threatening grounded Pokemon with Earthquake. Numel's only downfall is that it doesn't have the bulk required to effectively invest in speed so its left in the dust my Pokemon meaning if it's hit by super effective coverage like HP water Numel really struggles.
Farfetch'd C+ ----> B-
Farfetch'd, while not very flexible, can prove to be as scary as a lot of other Berry abusers. It's access to Flail makes it extremely formidable once it's gotten its salac boost. Moreover, thanks to Swords Dance Farf can turn from a manageable sweeper into force to be reckoned with as it has QA of its own.
UR ----> C+Dratini's access to Dragon Dance coupled sith Rest and Shed Skin mean its able to take advantage of passive teams and set up on them fairly easily. Dratini can fit well on balance teams that need a way to take advantage of bulky passive teams.
C ----> C+Meowth is very unique Normal-type. It posses fake out and hypnosis allowing it to chip something and hopefully put it to sleep the next turn.
UR ----> CKirlia has access to Screens and Memento meaning it's can be used as a source of Momentum on Hyper Offense teams.
C- ----> CParasect's access to Spore and base 95 Attack give it an offensive support Niche. It also comes equip with Swords Dance meaning it can bolster its already great Attack.
UR -----> CWhat Geodude lacks in speed it makes up for in Power as it has the strongest Explosion in the meta which OHKOs Koffing and can heavily dent both Nosepass and Lileep. This coupled with Rock- and Ground-type STAB make it something to look out for.
S ----> A+Lileep can be taken advantage of quite easily by Lum Berry Sweepers, more specifically Bagon. Moreover It's mince meat when facing Megahorn users such as Rhyhorn and Seaking which can easily beat it if Lileep is already damaged.
A+ ----> A-Delibird struggles to maintain relevance due to its lack of strong physical moves most of which end up missing anyway. It's speed tier is great and it's ability to run ice Beam is also good but the positives end there as Delibird often has to rely on HP Ground which isn't reliable at all due to Hustle.
A ----> A-Pidgeotto sees competition from the plethora or other Choice Band users in the metagame. What keeps it this high is undoubtedly its bulk and access to Quick Attack.
A ----> B+Snorunt struggles more and more as a lead. It's often time's better used as an attacker once the Salac boost comes in. Even then it's weak and is taken advantage of by Priority Users or Water-types who don't mind taking an HP grass.
A ----> B+Taillow struggles to maintain its relevancy with its paper thin defenses and poor Attack. What keeps Taillow from falling even further is its decent Speed coupled with a new endeavor support set that its been running.
A- ----> BBayleef struggles as a physical wall. Its still got that edge over lileep but with how hard hitting and quick this meta it is Bayleef struggle to not just be a momentum drain on balance.
B+ ----> BExeggcute is bad at almost everything it wants to accomplish. It's saving Grace is STAB Psychic and Sleep Powder which make it difficult for balance teams to handle properly if their caught in with the wrong Pokemon.
B ----> B-Masquerain's defensive utility and coverage isn't enough to save it from the rank drop. It struggles against a majority of the offensive pokemon currently available due to its mediocre speed and is easily taken advantage of by Specially defensive pokemon rendering it dead weight.
C+ ----> CWith a useless ability Teddiursa struggles to ever set up a Swords Dance or Bulk Up and even then it almost requires Thunder Wave support to function properly.
C ----> URDelcatty completely outclassed this.
C- ----> URLook at its movepool and stats. Sub Leech Seed and Toxic is niche but not a very good one with 0 Bulk and a shallow movepool.
i will be stepping down as dpp tl and my good friend skrimps will be taking over effective immediately. the metagame needs a leader who can give it the time and energy that it deserves, particularly to spearhead the the long-awaited updating of resources, and with irl commitments & having moved up in the ranks as one of the zu leaders, i can no longer be that person. i will still remain on council, just as i did when i stepped down as adv tl.
i very much believe in skrimps's ability to effectively lead dpp. he was the first person i recruited when i had to rebuild the dpp council because his dedication was very apparent from the get-go, and his involvement has been unwavering. i have the utmost faith in him, and i'll still be around to keep him in check
i very much believe in skrimps's ability to effectively lead dpp. he was the first person i recruited when i had to rebuild the dpp council because his dedication was very apparent from the get-go, and his involvement has been unwavering. i have the utmost faith in him, and i'll still be around to keep him in check
ZUPL has long concluded, but I wanted to make a few noms before a VR update comes up.
B+ -> A
A superstar in SV ZU, Swalot continues to bring fantastic defensive presence in its great typing, bulk, and deep movepool. It excels at being a physical wall by rapidly chipping down physical attackers with Rocky Helmet, chips unsuspecting Stealth Rock setters like Lairon and Carbink with Infestation, and can be a nice status absorber with RestTalk, especially when paired with clerics like Meganium or Wigglytuff. Even offensively, Swalot can be a great tank with Power-Up Punch sets with a bountiful of coverage choices (Seed Bomb, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Explosion), or even a great wallbreaker for the same reasons.
B -> B+
Unlike its fellow Water-Ground Stealth Rock setting rival Palpitoad (which is a meme at this point), it's becoming clear that Marshtomp's higher offensive presence and Torrent makes it the better choice. Marshtomp has seen quite a few uses in offensive teams as a tank, where its Ice Punch and Torrent makes it threatening Grass-types like Jumpluff and Service, making setup attempts not as easy as one would think. Compared to Gigalith, Lairon, and Carbink, Marshtomp is bulkier and is less exploitable for due to its Electric immunity and greater all-around bulk than all of them.
B- -> B
An underrated sweeper/wallbreaker in SS, Lunatone has just the tools to be an effective Rock Polish sweeper, with Levitate and offensive synergy making it a scary late-game sweeper. It has the coverage to take on would-be checks like Lairon, Scraggy, and Krokorok with Earth Power and Moonblast. Various berries like Colbur or even Rindo and Passho help make it even more threatening to deal with, though Life Orb can still be used to make it more difficult than ever to safely switch in.
C+ -> A
Despite the Smogon set suggesting a Sun Sweeper is its best set (though it is adept in the right matchup), the physical/mixed wall variants has gained far more popularity as a multifaceted wall against the meta. Excellent bulk when invested combined with Knock Off makes it an especially annoying Pokemon for prolonged games, be it offense or defense. It does especially well when Grass-types like Servine, Simisage, and even itself are commonplace.
C+ -> B-
Lampent's Flash Fire makes it a Great Wall to Magmar, and Ghost STAB carries perks like a better Psychic matchup. Despite its low bulk, Lampent does have a set variety that makes it difficult to guess from preview. While Trick is generally annoying, you never know if it carries Energy Ball or Calm Mind, as Energy Ball is a superb lure against Marshtomp and Politoed, while Calm Mind makes it surprisingly annoying late game, especially against standard defensive Carbink and Dusclops sets. While a niche choice, it comes with excellent upsides to compensate the difficulty in building with it.
C- -> C+
This has been gaining some steady use in ZUPL as a solid offensive Stealth Rock setter, differentiating itself from other Rockers like Gigalith and Lairon with its Ground subtyping. A faster explosion allows it to take out more targets than Gigalith, like Marshtomp, Adamant Lairon, and Vibrava. It's also a great Sun lead, threatening the opposition with the aforementioned Explosion and being guaranteed to either get Rocks or Sun up thanks to Sturdy.
UR -> C
Gloom's higher physical bulk makes it a good user of Leech Seed sets when compared to Ivysaur, compensating for its lack of Knock Off. Really, Gloom deserves a second look, Gloom God memes aside.
A -> B
Golduck is a subpar choice compared to Simipour. Rain Dance sets can be frightening given the chance, but the popularity of Politoed and Servine, severely limit its wallbreaking/cleaning capabilities. Life Orb sets get worn down really quickly, while Choice sets are awkward to navigate around, and while Golduck's bulk is okay for Calm Mind, it's certainly not tanky. Meanwhile, Simipour boasts much higher Speed, Knock Off, and better attacking stats all around, making it more difficult in comparison to check. It's even got better abilities in comparison, with Torrent and Gluttony making it frightening at low health. While a stellar part of Rain teams, it's just outclassed outside of rain, and its drop should reflect that.
A- -> B
Raticate is just not Purugly. Even with higher offensive presence thanks to Guts or Choice item sets, because its lack of Knock Off, tends to struggle even more against checks like Gigalith and Lairon, especially since it doesn't get Stomping Tantrum this generation. The Speed is nice against non-Scarf Sawbuck, but still falls behind a ton of other wallbreakers like the Simi twins or Electabuzz. Not helping its case is that it hasn't been used a single game during ZUPL and hasn't been seen over several tours.
C+ -> C-
Mightyena has seen more use than I would've thought, but I firmly think it's awful because it's very outclassed by Krokorok. Mightyena does differentiate itself with a neutrality to Water-, Grass-, and Ice-type attacks, Sucker Punch, and higher Attack, but not only is Mightyena still pretty frail and slow anyways, but it also lacks the benefits Krokorok brings to the table: Ground STAB, Stealth Rock, higher Speed, and Pursuit, which are much more significant in comparison. Krokorok can basically perform any set infinitely better, be it offensive (Rocks) or Choice variants.
C- -> UR
Supposedly, its higher offenses should give it a niche over Ivysaur or even Gloom. The catch? Weepinbell is frailer even with Eviolite, and when testing, it doesn't do enough damage to justify use. Outside of Sun, it's once again completely outclassed by Ivysaur and other Grass/Poison types because of its frailty and reliance on Chlorophyll. There's also the fact that other sun sweepers like Sawsbuck and even Fire-types like Magmar do better at its job than what Weepinbell can do.
C- -> UR
This is completely outclassed by Wigglytuff and Chimecho as a cleric. I'd even say Lickitung (who itself is also bad) outclasses it since Snubbull has no recovery, lacks needed useful utility moves like Knock Off, and has to make do with offensive moves which it isn't even good at doing.
RISES
B+ -> AA superstar in SV ZU, Swalot continues to bring fantastic defensive presence in its great typing, bulk, and deep movepool. It excels at being a physical wall by rapidly chipping down physical attackers with Rocky Helmet, chips unsuspecting Stealth Rock setters like Lairon and Carbink with Infestation, and can be a nice status absorber with RestTalk, especially when paired with clerics like Meganium or Wigglytuff. Even offensively, Swalot can be a great tank with Power-Up Punch sets with a bountiful of coverage choices (Seed Bomb, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Explosion), or even a great wallbreaker for the same reasons.
B -> B+Unlike its fellow Water-Ground Stealth Rock setting rival Palpitoad (which is a meme at this point), it's becoming clear that Marshtomp's higher offensive presence and Torrent makes it the better choice. Marshtomp has seen quite a few uses in offensive teams as a tank, where its Ice Punch and Torrent makes it threatening Grass-types like Jumpluff and Service, making setup attempts not as easy as one would think. Compared to Gigalith, Lairon, and Carbink, Marshtomp is bulkier and is less exploitable for due to its Electric immunity and greater all-around bulk than all of them.
B- -> BAn underrated sweeper/wallbreaker in SS, Lunatone has just the tools to be an effective Rock Polish sweeper, with Levitate and offensive synergy making it a scary late-game sweeper. It has the coverage to take on would-be checks like Lairon, Scraggy, and Krokorok with Earth Power and Moonblast. Various berries like Colbur or even Rindo and Passho help make it even more threatening to deal with, though Life Orb can still be used to make it more difficult than ever to safely switch in.
C+ -> ADespite the Smogon set suggesting a Sun Sweeper is its best set (though it is adept in the right matchup), the physical/mixed wall variants has gained far more popularity as a multifaceted wall against the meta. Excellent bulk when invested combined with Knock Off makes it an especially annoying Pokemon for prolonged games, be it offense or defense. It does especially well when Grass-types like Servine, Simisage, and even itself are commonplace.
C+ -> B- Lampent's Flash Fire makes it a Great Wall to Magmar, and Ghost STAB carries perks like a better Psychic matchup. Despite its low bulk, Lampent does have a set variety that makes it difficult to guess from preview. While Trick is generally annoying, you never know if it carries Energy Ball or Calm Mind, as Energy Ball is a superb lure against Marshtomp and Politoed, while Calm Mind makes it surprisingly annoying late game, especially against standard defensive Carbink and Dusclops sets. While a niche choice, it comes with excellent upsides to compensate the difficulty in building with it.
C- -> C+This has been gaining some steady use in ZUPL as a solid offensive Stealth Rock setter, differentiating itself from other Rockers like Gigalith and Lairon with its Ground subtyping. A faster explosion allows it to take out more targets than Gigalith, like Marshtomp, Adamant Lairon, and Vibrava. It's also a great Sun lead, threatening the opposition with the aforementioned Explosion and being guaranteed to either get Rocks or Sun up thanks to Sturdy.
UR -> CGloom's higher physical bulk makes it a good user of Leech Seed sets when compared to Ivysaur, compensating for its lack of Knock Off. Really, Gloom deserves a second look, Gloom God memes aside.
DROPS
A -> BGolduck is a subpar choice compared to Simipour. Rain Dance sets can be frightening given the chance, but the popularity of Politoed and Servine, severely limit its wallbreaking/cleaning capabilities. Life Orb sets get worn down really quickly, while Choice sets are awkward to navigate around, and while Golduck's bulk is okay for Calm Mind, it's certainly not tanky. Meanwhile, Simipour boasts much higher Speed, Knock Off, and better attacking stats all around, making it more difficult in comparison to check. It's even got better abilities in comparison, with Torrent and Gluttony making it frightening at low health. While a stellar part of Rain teams, it's just outclassed outside of rain, and its drop should reflect that.
A- -> BRaticate is just not Purugly. Even with higher offensive presence thanks to Guts or Choice item sets, because its lack of Knock Off, tends to struggle even more against checks like Gigalith and Lairon, especially since it doesn't get Stomping Tantrum this generation. The Speed is nice against non-Scarf Sawbuck, but still falls behind a ton of other wallbreakers like the Simi twins or Electabuzz. Not helping its case is that it hasn't been used a single game during ZUPL and hasn't been seen over several tours.
C+ -> C-Mightyena has seen more use than I would've thought, but I firmly think it's awful because it's very outclassed by Krokorok. Mightyena does differentiate itself with a neutrality to Water-, Grass-, and Ice-type attacks, Sucker Punch, and higher Attack, but not only is Mightyena still pretty frail and slow anyways, but it also lacks the benefits Krokorok brings to the table: Ground STAB, Stealth Rock, higher Speed, and Pursuit, which are much more significant in comparison. Krokorok can basically perform any set infinitely better, be it offensive (Rocks) or Choice variants.
C- -> URSupposedly, its higher offenses should give it a niche over Ivysaur or even Gloom. The catch? Weepinbell is frailer even with Eviolite, and when testing, it doesn't do enough damage to justify use. Outside of Sun, it's once again completely outclassed by Ivysaur and other Grass/Poison types because of its frailty and reliance on Chlorophyll. There's also the fact that other sun sweepers like Sawsbuck and even Fire-types like Magmar do better at its job than what Weepinbell can do.
C- -> URThis is completely outclassed by Wigglytuff and Chimecho as a cleric. I'd even say Lickitung (who itself is also bad) outclasses it since Snubbull has no recovery, lacks needed useful utility moves like Knock Off, and has to make do with offensive moves which it isn't even good at doing.
Here's a big post for DPP ZU.
First off -- I've added Drud and BeatsBlack to the DPP ZU council. Both are strong players with deep knowledge of DPP ZU. Huargensy and neomon have also departed the council, so we wish them the best.
---
Next up -- here's a VR update for DPP ZU to account for the meta's development throughout Olympiad, Classic, and now ZUPL V. The voters were me, wooper, BeatsBlack, Drud, and TTK.
High B --> High A
Low A --> High A
High B --> High A
High B --> Low A
Low B --> Low A
High B --> Low A
Low C --> High B
Low B --> High B
High C --> Low B
High C --> Low B
Low C --> High C
Low C --> High C
Low C --> High C
High A --> Low A
High A --> Low A
High A --> Low A
Low A --> High B
Low A --> High B
Low A --> High B
Low A --> High B
Low A --> High B
High B --> Low B
High B --> Low B
High B --> Low B
High B --> High C
Low B --> High C
Low B --> High C
Low B --> High C
Low B --> High C
Low B --> High C
High C --> Low C
High C --> Low C
High C --> Low C
High C --> Low C
High C --> Low C
UR --> High C
UR --> High C
UR --> High C
UR --> Low C
UR --> Low C
UR --> Low C
The DPP ZU Hub has been updated accordingly.
The rest of this will be my perspective on a number of the VR shifts and latest trends.
---
The DPP ZU meta has always revolved around Persian, but through Olympiad + ZU Classic it seemed to be centered around Whiscash + Wailord too. This is tricky because the usual Normal resists in Probopass / Mawile / Lunatone / Lairon get stuffed by both Water types (barring some Lunatone sets). Worm-T can at least Toxic, but it's still so passive. Whiscash especially can snowball after a free Dragon Dance. A well-played Whiscash felt dominant during this period. Well, onto the fix.
High B --> High A
BeatsBlack introduced me to Carnivine a while back. Fast forward and I'm passing Probopass + Carnivine to a bunch of players for ZU Classic. I had planned for Jabba to spam the core during ZUPL (and we still did), but I didn't anticipate nearly every other DPP player doing the same. It's clear that everyone had begun to recognize the ease of loading Carnivine into Whiscash.
Carnivine is the face of current DPP ZU. Sleep Powder is obviously good and STAB Power Whip is also obviously good. It has the mixed offenses to go physical, special, or just splash HP Fire onto the physical set over Return. Most importantly, it's immune to Whiscash's EQ, meaning that it can afford to invest into SpDef to handle Water types**.
**Never forget -- Whiscash / Crawdaunt are Dancers, and Wailord / Phione are Waters.
If you desperately need Stealth Rock on your team, then you run Grotle. If you desperately need to soak Toxic Spikes, then you run Gloom (or Budew). Otherwise, you're doing yourself a disservice by not running Carnivine.
---
Low A --> High A
Mawile has cemented itself as the premier offensive Normal-resist. LO Swords Dance sets can creep Probopass to avoid the trap and click Brick Break. Both abilities (Hyper Cutter / Intimidate) are good, but Intimidate opens up so many opportunities and lets Mawile more consistently check the Normals, Poisons, Grasses, Carnivines, and Birds. Shuca Berry improves this even further. Leftovers on Steels is way too risky, so don't do that.
SD Baton Pass sets can still sneak a win, but you want both Intimidate for easier setup and Hyper Cutter to not lose your boost to the Luxray switch-in. Common Water switch-ins like Phione and Wailord can also typically eat a hit from Mawile's recipient. That said, Arbok and Stantler are two recipients that abuse the boost well with their coverage and Speed tiers.
---
High B --> High A
Phione is on par with Wailord as the best Water in DPP ZU. 80/80/80 is solid bulk and 80 Base Spe outpaces Luxray. Phione can run the usual Water set of Surf / Ice Beam / HP Grass, but it also has versatility with U-Turn, Heal Bell, Substitute, Knock Off, and Acid Armor (?). Phione has deserved to be in High A since the post-Kingler VR refresh -- all it took was stacking the council to finally make it happen.
Sub 3-Attacks Lefties is probably the best set, then Scarf.
---
High A --> High A
Probopass gets a special mention because of how adaptable it's been. Whiscash's decline means you don't need HP Grass, so you can afford HP Fire for Wormadam-T (which also benefits, say, Carnivine). Shed Shell leads to a free Carnivine switch into opposing Diglett. Shuca Berry is still valuable, but I'll repeat this -- Leftovers on Steels is way too risky, so don't do that. Probopass has the bulk to abuse Passho or Chople too, so test out resist berries. Thunder Wave, Toxic, Taunt, Pain Split, and even Explosion are all fair moves too if you don't care to trap Worm-T.
ProboCarn >> RoboCop
---
High B --> Low A
Carnivine improved, and Golbat is a strong answer. Max Jolly Brave Bird is OHKOing SpDef Carnivine, but even Golbat's defensive sets fair well.
However, like Phione, this Pokemon has always outperformed its High B ranking. Golbat checks most Poisons and Grasses, and 90 Base Speed opens up plenty of revenge opportunities. I've seen some Super Fang, but fast Taunt is the best last move. Nasty Plot sets are also neat. Ironically though, one of Golbat's main drawbacks is not being grounded to soak TSpikes.
---
Low B --> Low A
Raticate had a 70% WR overall in ZUPL on 10 uses, but it also had a 0% WR in its last three showings. Players started accounting for it. Guts-boosted Facade can be brutal, but Raticate lacks coverage for fat resists and Sableye. Plus, Toxic Orb puts it on a timer. Heysup did show some flexibility with Taunt Lead, but the most apt use of Raticate is punching holes with Guts -- and it's still good at its job. Probopass and Diglett help enable Raticate too.
---
High B --> Low A
Sableye naturally got better to answer this surge in Normal usage, but it was still an underrated threat before then. Sableye's best set is still Sub CM, and it sets up on Girafarig, Lunatone, Wormadam-T, Gloom, Dunsparce, non-Taunt Persian, Probopass, and more. Sableye's 50 Base Speed is enough to creep Carnivine and will often be enough for Probopass and Camerupt. It's a threatening sweeper that many aren't sufficiently preparing for.
Will-O-Wisp / Seismic Toss / Recover / [Utility] with Dark/Ghost typing gives Sableye great defensive flexibility as well.
---
Low C --> High B
Dunsparce does the same thing that it always has -- click Body Slam to fish for Paralysis, then Roost. It's fat enough to avoid a 2HKO from threats, and Body Slam + EQ hits just about everything. Stealth Rock makes this Pokemon very splashable. Someone will lose a game to Dunsparce Ice Beam soon.
It can feel frail sometimes without an Eviolite, but the original Low C ranking for Dunsparce seems to be from simply being unexplored. It has merit.
---
Low B --> High B
Granbull's combination of high Base Attack and wide coverage (STAB / Close Combat / EQ / Crunch / Fire Punch) can be problematic. Intimidate lets it soak up attacks, and last moves like Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, and Taunt let it lean into its respectable bulk. Granbull is a good fat Normal.
---
High A >--> Low A
DD Cash is out, but SpAtk Cash is in. Luxray isn't running HP Grass, so you check that. Water / Ice / Ground coverage hits a ton, and the last move can be any one of Substitute, HP Electric, Toxic, etc. Whiscash's typing lets it sit on Steels and most Electrics (it eats the 40 BP LO Grass Knot from Plusle). Of course, Dragon Dance is still threatening if the opponent is ill-prepared, but it's a matchup fish.
---
Low A --> High B
Diglett's value is obvious, but it's fallen off lately. Shed Shell Probopass sees a lot more play, and Carnivine gets free turns on it. Defensive Luxray can stomach an EQ, so it's not trappable early. Scarf Arbok outspeeds to (usually) OHKO, so it's not trappable. Of course, there are ways around this, but Diglett is not as plug-and-play as it used to be. It's still valuable to facilitate Pokemon like Persian and Raticate, but all of the other Normals popping up are self-sufficient with their own EQs.
Reversal can still be a nice surprise for Shuca Berry holders, and Diglett's fast enough to function as a Stealth Rock lead. It definitely still has merit, so players will need to continue respecting Diglett in the builder.
---
Low A --> High B
I actually think Lairon's gotten better with the decline of DD Whiscash and the increase in HP Fire Probo (dropping a Speed point). It's a strong lead into most Persian because clicking Taunt on a Head Smash is much riskier than Taunt on a Probopass / Mawile attack. Shuca Berry is Lairon's best item, but Chople can be useful for eating Superpower / HP Fight. It appreciates three attacks, but I find Stealth Rock + Rock Polish more valuable overall.
However, I understand that it's still too slow overall without Rock Polish, Head Smash is prone to miss, and common Pokemon avoid that OHKO. Lairon also lacks the bulk to effectively check the EQ Normals even with a Shuca Berry.
---
A final note about trends:
Salac + Endure has risen in usage. There are a number of threatening users -- Crawdaunt / Plusle / Seadra come to mind as the most common, but you can splash this onto so many offensive Pokemon. You need to respect this possibility in endgames.
---
We'll continue hitting the DPP ZU Hub resources with an HGTV home makeover, so look out for all of that soon. DPP ZU is in good hands.
First off -- I've added Drud and BeatsBlack to the DPP ZU council. Both are strong players with deep knowledge of DPP ZU. Huargensy and neomon have also departed the council, so we wish them the best.
---
Next up -- here's a VR update for DPP ZU to account for the meta's development throughout Olympiad, Classic, and now ZUPL V. The voters were me, wooper, BeatsBlack, Drud, and TTK.
High B --> High A Low A --> High A High B --> High A High B --> Low A Low B --> Low A High B --> Low A Low C --> High B Low B --> High B High C --> Low B High C --> Low B Low C --> High C Low C --> High C Low C --> High C High A --> Low A High A --> Low A High A --> Low A Low A --> High B Low A --> High B Low A --> High B Low A --> High B Low A --> High B High B --> Low B High B --> Low B High B --> Low B High B --> High C Low B --> High C Low B --> High C Low B --> High C Low B --> High C Low B --> High C High C --> Low C High C --> Low C High C --> Low C High C --> Low C High C --> Low C UR --> High C UR --> High C UR --> High C UR --> Low C UR --> Low C UR --> Low C| POKEMON | CURRENT RANK | skrimps | wooper | BeatsBlack | Drud | TTK | NEW RANK | POKEMON |
| Persian | s | a+ | s | a+ | s | s | s | Persian |
| Girafarig | a+ | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | Girafarig |
| Lunatone | a+ | a- | a+ | a- | a- | a- | a- | Lunatone |
| Luxray | a+ | a+ | s | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Luxray |
| Probopass | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Probopass |
| Wailord | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Wailord |
| Whiscash | a+ | a- | b+ | a- | a- | a- | a- | Whiscash |
| Arbok | a- | a- | a+ | a- | a- | a- | a- | Arbok |
| Banette | a- | a- | a+ | a- | b+ | a- | a- | Banette |
| Camerupt | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | Camerupt |
| Crawdaunt | a- | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Crawdaunt |
| Dewgong | a- | b+ | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Dewgong |
| Diglett | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Diglett |
| Gloom | a- | b+ | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Gloom |
| Lairon | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Lairon |
| Mawile | a- | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Mawile |
| Wormadam-Trash | a- | b+ | a- | a- | b+ | a- | a- | Wormadam-Trash |
| Beedrill | b+ | b+ | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | Beedrill |
| Carnivine | b+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Carnivine |
| Chimecho | b+ | b- | b+ | b+ | b- | b- | b- | Chimecho |
| Fearow | b+ | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | Fearow |
| Golbat | b+ | a- | a- | a- | b+ | b+ | a- | Golbat |
| Grotle | b+ | b+ | b+ | b- | b+ | b+ | b+ | Grotle |
| Grovyle | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Grovyle |
| Phione | b+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | a+ | Phione |
| Plusle | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Plusle |
| Sableye | b+ | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | a- | Sableye |
| Seadra | b+ | b+ | a- | b+ | b+ | a- | b+ | Seadra |
| Slaking | b+ | b- | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Slaking |
| Stantler | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Stantler |
| Bibarel | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | Bibarel |
| Butterfree | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | ur | c+ | c+ | Butterfree |
| Exploud | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Exploud |
| Flareon | b- | b- | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Flareon |
| Gastly | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | b- | Gastly |
| Granbull | b- | a- | b+ | a- | b+ | b+ | b+ | Granbull |
| Huntail | b- | b- | b- | b- | c+ | c+ | b- | Huntail |
| Kecleon | b- | b- | c+ | b- | b+ | b- | b- | Kecleon |
| Omanyte | b- | b- | b- | b- | c+ | b- | b- | Omanyte |
| Pelipper | b- | b- | b- | b- | b+ | b- | b- | Pelipper |
| Raticate | b- | a- | a- | a- | a+ | a- | a- | Raticate |
| Shelgon | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Shelgon |
| Swalot | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c- | c+ | Swalot |
| Wormadam-Sandy | b- | b+ | b- | b+ | c+ | b- | b- | Wormadam-Sandy |
| Budew | c+ | b- | c+ | c+ | c- | c- | c+ | Budew |
| Combusken | c+ | b- | c+ | b- | b- | b- | b- | Combusken |
| Cranidos | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Cranidos |
| Dustox | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Dustox |
| Mightyena | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Mightyena |
| Minun | c+ | c- | c- | c- | ur | ur | c- | Minun |
| Octillery | c+ | b- | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Octillery |
| Pikachu | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Pikachu |
| Porygon | c+ | c- | c- | c- | c+ | c- | c- | Porygon |
| Seviper | c+ | c- | c+ | c- | c- | c- | c- | Seviper |
| Staryu | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | ur | c- | c- | Staryu |
| Togetic | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Togetic |
| Vibrava | c+ | b- | c- | b- | c+ | b- | b- | Vibrava |
| Vigoroth | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Vigoroth |
| Yanma | c+ | c+ | c- | c- | ur | ur | c- | Yanma |
| Bronzor | c- | c+ | c+ | c- | c- | c- | c- | Bronzor |
| Chatot | c- | c+ | c- | c+ | ur | ur | c- | Chatot |
| Clamperl | c- | c- | c- | c- | ur | ur | c- | Clamperl |
| Clefairy | c- | c- | c+ | c- | ur | ur | c- | Clefairy |
| Corsola | c- | c- | c- | c- | ur | ur | c- | Corsola |
| Dunsparce | c- | b- | b- | b+ | b+ | b+ | b+ | Dunsparce |
| Marshtomp | c- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Marshtomp |
| Meditite | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | Meditite |
| Pineco | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | Pineco |
| Pupitar | c- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Pupitar |
| Quilava | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | Quilava |
| Sudowoodo | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | Sudowoodo |
| Wartortle | c- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Wartortle |
| Lickitung | ur | c- | c- | c+ | c- | c- | c- | Lickitung |
| Lopunny | ur | c+ | c+ | c+ | c- | c+ | c+ | Lopunny |
| Wigglytuff | ur | c+ | c- | c- | c- | c- | c- | Wigglytuff |
| Abra | ur | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Abra |
| Pidgeot | ur | b- | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | c+ | Pidgeot |
| Noctowl | ur | c+ | c- | c- | c- | n/a | c- | Noctowl |
The rest of this will be my perspective on a number of the VR shifts and latest trends.
---
The DPP ZU meta has always revolved around Persian, but through Olympiad + ZU Classic it seemed to be centered around Whiscash + Wailord too. This is tricky because the usual Normal resists in Probopass / Mawile / Lunatone / Lairon get stuffed by both Water types (barring some Lunatone sets). Worm-T can at least Toxic, but it's still so passive. Whiscash especially can snowball after a free Dragon Dance. A well-played Whiscash felt dominant during this period. Well, onto the fix.
High B --> High ABeatsBlack introduced me to Carnivine a while back. Fast forward and I'm passing Probopass + Carnivine to a bunch of players for ZU Classic. I had planned for Jabba to spam the core during ZUPL (and we still did), but I didn't anticipate nearly every other DPP player doing the same. It's clear that everyone had begun to recognize the ease of loading Carnivine into Whiscash.
Carnivine is the face of current DPP ZU. Sleep Powder is obviously good and STAB Power Whip is also obviously good. It has the mixed offenses to go physical, special, or just splash HP Fire onto the physical set over Return. Most importantly, it's immune to Whiscash's EQ, meaning that it can afford to invest into SpDef to handle Water types**.
**Never forget -- Whiscash / Crawdaunt are Dancers, and Wailord / Phione are Waters.
If you desperately need Stealth Rock on your team, then you run Grotle. If you desperately need to soak Toxic Spikes, then you run Gloom (or Budew). Otherwise, you're doing yourself a disservice by not running Carnivine.
---
Low A --> High AMawile has cemented itself as the premier offensive Normal-resist. LO Swords Dance sets can creep Probopass to avoid the trap and click Brick Break. Both abilities (Hyper Cutter / Intimidate) are good, but Intimidate opens up so many opportunities and lets Mawile more consistently check the Normals, Poisons, Grasses, Carnivines, and Birds. Shuca Berry improves this even further. Leftovers on Steels is way too risky, so don't do that.
SD Baton Pass sets can still sneak a win, but you want both Intimidate for easier setup and Hyper Cutter to not lose your boost to the Luxray switch-in. Common Water switch-ins like Phione and Wailord can also typically eat a hit from Mawile's recipient. That said, Arbok and Stantler are two recipients that abuse the boost well with their coverage and Speed tiers.
---
High B --> High APhione is on par with Wailord as the best Water in DPP ZU. 80/80/80 is solid bulk and 80 Base Spe outpaces Luxray. Phione can run the usual Water set of Surf / Ice Beam / HP Grass, but it also has versatility with U-Turn, Heal Bell, Substitute, Knock Off, and Acid Armor (?). Phione has deserved to be in High A since the post-Kingler VR refresh -- all it took was stacking the council to finally make it happen.
Sub 3-Attacks Lefties is probably the best set, then Scarf.
---
High A --> High AProbopass gets a special mention because of how adaptable it's been. Whiscash's decline means you don't need HP Grass, so you can afford HP Fire for Wormadam-T (which also benefits, say, Carnivine). Shed Shell leads to a free Carnivine switch into opposing Diglett. Shuca Berry is still valuable, but I'll repeat this -- Leftovers on Steels is way too risky, so don't do that. Probopass has the bulk to abuse Passho or Chople too, so test out resist berries. Thunder Wave, Toxic, Taunt, Pain Split, and even Explosion are all fair moves too if you don't care to trap Worm-T.
ProboCarn >> RoboCop
---
High B --> Low ACarnivine improved, and Golbat is a strong answer. Max Jolly Brave Bird is OHKOing SpDef Carnivine, but even Golbat's defensive sets fair well.
However, like Phione, this Pokemon has always outperformed its High B ranking. Golbat checks most Poisons and Grasses, and 90 Base Speed opens up plenty of revenge opportunities. I've seen some Super Fang, but fast Taunt is the best last move. Nasty Plot sets are also neat. Ironically though, one of Golbat's main drawbacks is not being grounded to soak TSpikes.
---
Low B --> Low ARaticate had a 70% WR overall in ZUPL on 10 uses, but it also had a 0% WR in its last three showings. Players started accounting for it. Guts-boosted Facade can be brutal, but Raticate lacks coverage for fat resists and Sableye. Plus, Toxic Orb puts it on a timer. Heysup did show some flexibility with Taunt Lead, but the most apt use of Raticate is punching holes with Guts -- and it's still good at its job. Probopass and Diglett help enable Raticate too.
---
High B --> Low ASableye naturally got better to answer this surge in Normal usage, but it was still an underrated threat before then. Sableye's best set is still Sub CM, and it sets up on Girafarig, Lunatone, Wormadam-T, Gloom, Dunsparce, non-Taunt Persian, Probopass, and more. Sableye's 50 Base Speed is enough to creep Carnivine and will often be enough for Probopass and Camerupt. It's a threatening sweeper that many aren't sufficiently preparing for.
Will-O-Wisp / Seismic Toss / Recover / [Utility] with Dark/Ghost typing gives Sableye great defensive flexibility as well.
---
Low C --> High BDunsparce does the same thing that it always has -- click Body Slam to fish for Paralysis, then Roost. It's fat enough to avoid a 2HKO from threats, and Body Slam + EQ hits just about everything. Stealth Rock makes this Pokemon very splashable. Someone will lose a game to Dunsparce Ice Beam soon.
It can feel frail sometimes without an Eviolite, but the original Low C ranking for Dunsparce seems to be from simply being unexplored. It has merit.
---
Low B --> High BGranbull's combination of high Base Attack and wide coverage (STAB / Close Combat / EQ / Crunch / Fire Punch) can be problematic. Intimidate lets it soak up attacks, and last moves like Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, and Taunt let it lean into its respectable bulk. Granbull is a good fat Normal.
---
High A >--> Low ADD Cash is out, but SpAtk Cash is in. Luxray isn't running HP Grass, so you check that. Water / Ice / Ground coverage hits a ton, and the last move can be any one of Substitute, HP Electric, Toxic, etc. Whiscash's typing lets it sit on Steels and most Electrics (it eats the 40 BP LO Grass Knot from Plusle). Of course, Dragon Dance is still threatening if the opponent is ill-prepared, but it's a matchup fish.
---
Low A --> High BDiglett's value is obvious, but it's fallen off lately. Shed Shell Probopass sees a lot more play, and Carnivine gets free turns on it. Defensive Luxray can stomach an EQ, so it's not trappable early. Scarf Arbok outspeeds to (usually) OHKO, so it's not trappable. Of course, there are ways around this, but Diglett is not as plug-and-play as it used to be. It's still valuable to facilitate Pokemon like Persian and Raticate, but all of the other Normals popping up are self-sufficient with their own EQs.
Reversal can still be a nice surprise for Shuca Berry holders, and Diglett's fast enough to function as a Stealth Rock lead. It definitely still has merit, so players will need to continue respecting Diglett in the builder.
---
Low A --> High BI actually think Lairon's gotten better with the decline of DD Whiscash and the increase in HP Fire Probo (dropping a Speed point). It's a strong lead into most Persian because clicking Taunt on a Head Smash is much riskier than Taunt on a Probopass / Mawile attack. Shuca Berry is Lairon's best item, but Chople can be useful for eating Superpower / HP Fight. It appreciates three attacks, but I find Stealth Rock + Rock Polish more valuable overall.
However, I understand that it's still too slow overall without Rock Polish, Head Smash is prone to miss, and common Pokemon avoid that OHKO. Lairon also lacks the bulk to effectively check the EQ Normals even with a Shuca Berry.
---
A final note about trends:
Salac + Endure has risen in usage. There are a number of threatening users -- Crawdaunt / Plusle / Seadra come to mind as the most common, but you can splash this onto so many offensive Pokemon. You need to respect this possibility in endgames.
---
We'll continue hitting the DPP ZU Hub resources with an HGTV home makeover, so look out for all of that soon. DPP ZU is in good hands.
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Hello all! It’s been a while, but ORAS has a couple of announcements:
Firstly, some council shake-ups. Aaronboyer and SBPC have officially stepped down. We thank them for all of their service and hope to work with them again in the near future. Additionally, Jettrem, deg and Shaneghoul have officially joined ORAS council! All three have shown great interest not just in playing tour, but in continually learning this metagame. I have no doubt their perspectives will be a vital asset to ORAS moving forward. Congratulations to all three!
Now for the meat and potatoes: The VR update. It’s been a long time coming, so here are the changes:
→ Banned deucer
→ S
→ A+
→ A+
→ A+
→ A+
→ A+
→ A
→ A
→ A
→ B+
→ B+
→ B+
→ B
→ B
→ A-
→ B-
→ B-
→ B-
→ B
→ B-
→ C+
→ B-
→ A-
→ B-
→ C+
→ C+
→ C-
→ C
→ S-
→ A+
→ A
→ A
→ A
→ A
→ B
-L → A-
→ A-
→ A-
→ B+
→ B+
→ B+
→ B+
→ B+
→ B
→ B
→ B
-s → B
→ B
→ B
→ B-
→ B-
→ B-
→ B-
→ C+
→ C+
→ C+
→ C+
→ C+
→ C+
→ C
→ unranked
→ C-
→ C-
→ C-
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
→ unranked
Obviously, a lot has changed. So I will be including a read-only version of our slate here. For a more in-depth look into the reasonings, read below (Due to the large number of shifts between tiers, council member 5Dots has also covered a number of the reasoning write-ups):
→ S: Anyone that has been following ORAS is well aware of the snowball effect of Contrary Leaf Storm. It wouldn’t be farfetched to say it’s one of the primary reasons for the rise of bulky Poison-types such as Swalot and Dustox. Knock Off and Glare Paralysis utilities are unmatched in the tier. Combined with Synthesis longevity, it’s a cut above every other Pokemon in the metagame.
→ A+: One of the biggest benefactors of the Purugly ban. Future Sight has seen much more tour play, and with the decreased Dark-type usage, Calm Mind sets have become exceedingly dangerous to check.
→ A+: One of the best hazard removal available. Never fearing Scald burns, checking the likes of Servine, and can shuffle the opponent or spread Toxic poisons for chip damage. It can mix and match its defensive investment and remains one of the toughest walls to take down despite its Stealth Rock weakness.
→ A+: The pioneers rode these babies for miles. Absurdly bulky Rock-type that can go for Choice Band or even tech like Smack Down + Earthquake without as many weaknesses as Lairon. This rise has been a long time coming.
→ A+: Shell Smash enables Huntail to be one of the most menacing cleaners in the builder. The added guessing game of Physical or Special makes properly checking even more of a hassle as seen in recent tournaments.
→ A+: Hard-hitting and can tank just about any 2 hits that are not super effective. Fighting and Fire are near unresisted in the tier, and combined with Sucker Punch and options like Toxic, Wild Charge, and Will-o-Wisp, Pignite has been reputed as one of ORAS ZU’s best wall breakers.
→ A: This just continues walling generally everything bar Krokorok or Mightyena in the metagame. It’s the same as it ever was, whittling enemies down with Psywave and benefitting from one less Knock Off user to contend with.
→ A: One of two viable Fairy-types in ORAS ZU, and it’s not only one of the defensive pieces in the metagame with clean 50/150/150 bulk, it can also go more offensive with Moonblast + Earth Power hitting just about everything neutrally in the tier. It can even go the “Crit-Me-Not” route with Calm Mind Iron Defense shenanigans thanks to how rare Steel-type coverage is.
→ A: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning.
→ A-: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning.
→ A-: Purugly at home, only not as strong, and in exchange gets Technician boosted Fake-Outs and coverage like Hidden Power.
→ B+: Marshtomp’s blend of offensive and defensive capabilities makes it a rock-solid Stealth Rock setter in the meta, discouraging Stealth Rock setters, Grass-types, non-HP Grass Electabuzz, and Pignite in one slot.
→ B+: Trubbish stands out as a strong Spiker and Poison-type, with options like Pain Split for longevity or Explosion to keep up momentum giving it versatility.
→ B+: Purugly’s departure invites a power vacuum for the best Normal-type in the tier, bringing to the table excellent Speed and utility options like Healing Wish and Encore to disrupt defensive cores.
→ B: Levitate and an interesting set of coverage make it a notable late-game cleaner with Rock Polish, and can either run various resist berries or Life Orb to further amplify its threat potential.
→ B: Poison-types love the rise in Grasses, and Seviper is no different. A bountiful offensive move pool and excellent mixed attacking stats make this a menace against slower builds, either cleaning games with Coil or being an interesting Choice user.
→ B: Knock Off and Scald are two valuable tools for a defensive Pokemon and Seaking benefits with an Electric immunity and decent bulk.
→ B-: Although it faces steep competition with Pignite and Scraggy, Regenerator alongside Knock Off and U-turn makes Mienfoo a unique pivot, compensating against its low bulk and lack of secondary typing.
→ B-: Lampent’s nearly unresisted STABs and Flash Fire make this an interesting check to Servine and Pignite. It can be a scary win-con with Calm Mind late-game or can be a disruptive Scarfer.
→ B-: Unique coverage in Iron Tail and Play Rough disrupt Carbink + Scraggy cores quite well, and unlike Krokorok, has Sucker Punch to punish faster Choice Scarf users and common revenge-killers that attempt to stop its sweep.
→ B-: Like fellow rival Lunatone, Solrock can rock a surprising late-game cleaning set with Rock Polish backed with good power and coverage, or can be a decent Stealth Rock setter thanks to Levitate and reliable recovery.
→ B-: Great physical bulk, Recover, and Flame Body enable Magcargo to be an interesting Normal check. Shell Smash sets can blast through weakened enough Water-resists and slower teams.
→ C+: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning.
→ C+: In a tier lacking in versatile Rapid Spinners, good physical bulk, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin make it an interesting option for its role compression.
→ C: The DPP whale saw a brief return to the scene in tournaments thanks to its infamous Stallord set. Pressure is great for sitting on fellow Water-types Politoed and Simipour, as well as passive walls like Bronzor and sweepers like Servine with limited PP.
→ C-: A bulky Electric-type that’s Ground immune, has move pool options like Giga Drain, Knock Off, Super Fang, and either U-Turn or Volt Switch for pivoting. Works pretty well on Electric-type spam teams.
→ S-: While still a metagame staple, quite a few metagame trends have not gone in its favor. Increased Grass-type usage, alongside a vulnerability to hazards and the rise of checks such as Dustox and Seaking, has made Electabuzz a bit harder to fit lately. That being said, the council still feels it is a versatile pivot and speed control that sits above most of the metagame at large.
→ A+: Although still an elite Grass-type with nearly unmatched set variety, with the rise of Poison-types and other Grass-type checks, it’s become too constrained move-set-wise to stay in S.
→ A: Swords Dance still threatens many and it has a good support move pool, but it’s become much more of a match-up fish. It also despises how much bulkier the metagame has gotten, which further exploits its pitiful Attack stat.
→ A: In spite of RestTalk defensive variants seeing more use recently, it finds fewer and fewer set-up opportunities as of late for its Shift Gear variants. Rising Bronzor usage tends to also outclass and wall its many set variants.
→ A: Choice Band still breaks through ill-prepared teams, but its awkward speed tier and bulk continue to provide issues with pivoting in versus common metagame staples. Grass-type resurgence also staggers any Choice Scarf Moxie opportunities to clean late game.
→ A: Rise in Politoed and Rock-types have made it exceedingly difficult to utilize its Fire-type STAB. It’s overly prediction-reliant and lacks the consistency of other A ranks with how often it misses its STAB and coverage.
→ B: Rain has just not seen enough usage to justify a high ranking in A. Additionally, it faces harsh competition from Huntail, Politoed, and Simipour as a dedicated Special Offensive Water-type.
-L → A-: Has not seen nearly enough usage as of late. Although a general blanket check to physical attackers, Pignite and Scraggy tend to give it issue thanks to their ways around its will-o-wisp burns. Compared to fellow Grass-types Servine and Jumpluff, it’s extremely passive and does not appreciate switching into Water-types whatsoever due to potential Scald burns or the widespread Toxic spam in the metagame.
→ A- Although a premier Spike setter, its awkward mix of bulk and offensive capability leaves it lacking in too many matchups. It also has several move set restraints, needing coverage for Poison and Flying-types, while also benefiting from utilities options like Taunt, Roar, and Synthesis that it much forgo on certain builds.
→ A-: Normal/Grass STAB has become a bit harder to utilize thanks to a rise in Poison and Steel-types, as well as Normal and Grass-type competition in Furfrou, Persian, Jumpluff and Simisage.
→ B+: Extremely match-up dependent. Although it loves to Pressure stall Future Sight Duosion, it’s Knock Off prone and is easy to chip down with hazard damage and Pursuit.
→ B+: While still valued as a solid check to Electric-types, Sand Stream’s unfortunate side effect of halving Synthesis healing makes it an ill-advised partner for the Grass-types that it desperately needs to assist it with Cleric support. Additionally, the rise in alternate Stealth Rock setters, such as Gigalith and Carbink, makes Hippopotas harder to justify a team slot.
→ B+: Does not appreciate how bulkier the metagame has gotten, especially with the rise of Rock and Steel-types that tank its Brave Bird. Reliance on Life Orb for damage output when combined with a Rocks weakness makes it very easy to wear down and take out.
→ B+: Rising Poison-type competition in the form of Ivysaur, Swalot, and especially Trubbish has made Whirlipede not nearly as spammable as in prior metagames.
→ B+: An awkward assortment of bulk is a big culprit of Wigglytuff’s drop. It’s still a decent check to Scraggy and Vibrava thanks to its Fairy-type and obscene HP, but into most everything else, it tends to flounder and lose offensive momentum.
→ B: Quad Stealth Rock weak set-up sweeper is just not good. Has very little opportunity to Quiver Dance and hates the rise of Rock and Steel-types.
→ B: Vanilluxe is simply better in this metagame. Although Shadow Ball is decent tech for Bronzor and Politoed, it’s hard to argue for when you can just click a Choice Specs or Life Orb-boosted Freeze-Dry/Hidden Power Fire without much to punish you.
→ B: See above, except it also faces stiff competition as a Spike setter. The rise in Trubbish and Whirlipede continues to do it no favors, even if its offensive capabilities with Freeze Dry can be tempting to justify.
→ B: Guts boosted Facades are inherently strong. That is, of course, assuming you get the opportunity to fire them off in this climate. Raticate is getting constantly chipped throughout a game, between hazard damage and its own status chipping at it (pick your, well, poison between badly poisoned and 12% burn damage). Add on the constant presence of bulky Ghost, Rock, and Steel-types, it’s just a bad time for the top percentage rat.
→ B-: Similar reasonings to Golduck. Rain just does not have the usage for such a high ranking, especially when better breakers and sweepers exist.
→ B-: It still has its usual bag of tricks such as statuses, Heal Bell and Healing Wish, but it just doesn't have the usage to justify a ranking as high as B. Growing competition from Duosion does not help matters either.
→ B-: On paper, Chinchou is a good check to top-tier special attackers such as Electabuzz, Magmar, and Simipour that can pivot with Volt Switch. In practice, it’s a little too passive in nature. It’s also much more Knock Off weak compared to its competition in Politoed and especially Seaking.
→ B-: Drill Run is a decent niche, but it’s incredibly prediction reliant for a Choice Band user that’s taking 25% from Stealth Rock. Most often you'd prefer other Normal-types such as Furfrou, Lopunny, or Sawsbuck.
C tiers: A vast amount of the changes is simply cleaning house, as a majority had either not seen relevant play in a long time or just did not hold a significant enough niche anymore (rest easy Snubbull, my beautiful child).
→ B
Tour banlist, team validator and threat list have also been updated post Purugly. I've reformatted the NFE section of the threat list, as listing "Notable NFEs" is a bit dubious given the shifts in viability. Instead, the threat list notates any illegal NFEs and the tier they are listed. I’ve also gone ahead and tweaked the generational differences:
I will be continually looking over this to ensure accuracy. If you see anything missing that you feel is important, please reach out and I will have it amended.
Be on the lookout for more updates to come! We’ll be planning some larger-scale updates on the resources in the near future! Huge thanks to the council, and to all of the ORAS player base that continues to keep this metagame thriving (Also shouts to 5gen in particular for still having that MS Paint banner I made that died on the forum post LOL). I’ve been with this metagame for nearly a decade, and I hope I can continue to see it develop for decades more. (Someone should probably check with czim after these shifts as well
.)
Firstly, some council shake-ups. Aaronboyer and SBPC have officially stepped down. We thank them for all of their service and hope to work with them again in the near future. Additionally, Jettrem, deg and Shaneghoul have officially joined ORAS council! All three have shown great interest not just in playing tour, but in continually learning this metagame. I have no doubt their perspectives will be a vital asset to ORAS moving forward. Congratulations to all three!
Now for the meat and potatoes: The VR update. It’s been a long time coming, so here are the changes:
→ Banned deucer → S → A+ → A+ → A+ → A+ → A+ → A → A → A → B+ → B+ → B+ → B → B → A- → B- → B- → B- → B → B- → C+ → B- → A- → B- → C+ → C+ → C- → C → S- → A+ → A → A → A → A → B-L → A- → A- → A- → B+ → B+ → B+ → B+ → B+ → B → B → B-s → B → B → B → B- → B- → B- → B- → C+ → C+ → C+ → C+ → C+ → C+ → C → unranked → C- → C- → C- → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unranked → unrankedObviously, a lot has changed. So I will be including a read-only version of our slate here. For a more in-depth look into the reasonings, read below (Due to the large number of shifts between tiers, council member 5Dots has also covered a number of the reasoning write-ups):
→ S: Anyone that has been following ORAS is well aware of the snowball effect of Contrary Leaf Storm. It wouldn’t be farfetched to say it’s one of the primary reasons for the rise of bulky Poison-types such as Swalot and Dustox. Knock Off and Glare Paralysis utilities are unmatched in the tier. Combined with Synthesis longevity, it’s a cut above every other Pokemon in the metagame. → A+: One of the biggest benefactors of the Purugly ban. Future Sight has seen much more tour play, and with the decreased Dark-type usage, Calm Mind sets have become exceedingly dangerous to check. → A+: One of the best hazard removal available. Never fearing Scald burns, checking the likes of Servine, and can shuffle the opponent or spread Toxic poisons for chip damage. It can mix and match its defensive investment and remains one of the toughest walls to take down despite its Stealth Rock weakness. → A+: The pioneers rode these babies for miles. Absurdly bulky Rock-type that can go for Choice Band or even tech like Smack Down + Earthquake without as many weaknesses as Lairon. This rise has been a long time coming. → A+: Shell Smash enables Huntail to be one of the most menacing cleaners in the builder. The added guessing game of Physical or Special makes properly checking even more of a hassle as seen in recent tournaments. → A+: Hard-hitting and can tank just about any 2 hits that are not super effective. Fighting and Fire are near unresisted in the tier, and combined with Sucker Punch and options like Toxic, Wild Charge, and Will-o-Wisp, Pignite has been reputed as one of ORAS ZU’s best wall breakers. → A: This just continues walling generally everything bar Krokorok or Mightyena in the metagame. It’s the same as it ever was, whittling enemies down with Psywave and benefitting from one less Knock Off user to contend with. → A: One of two viable Fairy-types in ORAS ZU, and it’s not only one of the defensive pieces in the metagame with clean 50/150/150 bulk, it can also go more offensive with Moonblast + Earth Power hitting just about everything neutrally in the tier. It can even go the “Crit-Me-Not” route with Calm Mind Iron Defense shenanigans thanks to how rare Steel-type coverage is. → A: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning. → A-: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning. → A-: Purugly at home, only not as strong, and in exchange gets Technician boosted Fake-Outs and coverage like Hidden Power. → B+: Marshtomp’s blend of offensive and defensive capabilities makes it a rock-solid Stealth Rock setter in the meta, discouraging Stealth Rock setters, Grass-types, non-HP Grass Electabuzz, and Pignite in one slot. → B+: Trubbish stands out as a strong Spiker and Poison-type, with options like Pain Split for longevity or Explosion to keep up momentum giving it versatility. → B+: Purugly’s departure invites a power vacuum for the best Normal-type in the tier, bringing to the table excellent Speed and utility options like Healing Wish and Encore to disrupt defensive cores. → B: Levitate and an interesting set of coverage make it a notable late-game cleaner with Rock Polish, and can either run various resist berries or Life Orb to further amplify its threat potential. → B: Poison-types love the rise in Grasses, and Seviper is no different. A bountiful offensive move pool and excellent mixed attacking stats make this a menace against slower builds, either cleaning games with Coil or being an interesting Choice user. → B: Knock Off and Scald are two valuable tools for a defensive Pokemon and Seaking benefits with an Electric immunity and decent bulk. → B-: Although it faces steep competition with Pignite and Scraggy, Regenerator alongside Knock Off and U-turn makes Mienfoo a unique pivot, compensating against its low bulk and lack of secondary typing. → B-: Lampent’s nearly unresisted STABs and Flash Fire make this an interesting check to Servine and Pignite. It can be a scary win-con with Calm Mind late-game or can be a disruptive Scarfer. → B-: Unique coverage in Iron Tail and Play Rough disrupt Carbink + Scraggy cores quite well, and unlike Krokorok, has Sucker Punch to punish faster Choice Scarf users and common revenge-killers that attempt to stop its sweep. → B-: Like fellow rival Lunatone, Solrock can rock a surprising late-game cleaning set with Rock Polish backed with good power and coverage, or can be a decent Stealth Rock setter thanks to Levitate and reliable recovery. → B-: Great physical bulk, Recover, and Flame Body enable Magcargo to be an interesting Normal check. Shell Smash sets can blast through weakened enough Water-resists and slower teams. → C+: See council member 5Dots post for reasoning. → C+: In a tier lacking in versatile Rapid Spinners, good physical bulk, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin make it an interesting option for its role compression. → C: The DPP whale saw a brief return to the scene in tournaments thanks to its infamous Stallord set. Pressure is great for sitting on fellow Water-types Politoed and Simipour, as well as passive walls like Bronzor and sweepers like Servine with limited PP. → C-: A bulky Electric-type that’s Ground immune, has move pool options like Giga Drain, Knock Off, Super Fang, and either U-Turn or Volt Switch for pivoting. Works pretty well on Electric-type spam teams. → S-: While still a metagame staple, quite a few metagame trends have not gone in its favor. Increased Grass-type usage, alongside a vulnerability to hazards and the rise of checks such as Dustox and Seaking, has made Electabuzz a bit harder to fit lately. That being said, the council still feels it is a versatile pivot and speed control that sits above most of the metagame at large. → A+: Although still an elite Grass-type with nearly unmatched set variety, with the rise of Poison-types and other Grass-type checks, it’s become too constrained move-set-wise to stay in S. → A: Swords Dance still threatens many and it has a good support move pool, but it’s become much more of a match-up fish. It also despises how much bulkier the metagame has gotten, which further exploits its pitiful Attack stat. → A: In spite of RestTalk defensive variants seeing more use recently, it finds fewer and fewer set-up opportunities as of late for its Shift Gear variants. Rising Bronzor usage tends to also outclass and wall its many set variants. → A: Choice Band still breaks through ill-prepared teams, but its awkward speed tier and bulk continue to provide issues with pivoting in versus common metagame staples. Grass-type resurgence also staggers any Choice Scarf Moxie opportunities to clean late game. → A: Rise in Politoed and Rock-types have made it exceedingly difficult to utilize its Fire-type STAB. It’s overly prediction-reliant and lacks the consistency of other A ranks with how often it misses its STAB and coverage. → B: Rain has just not seen enough usage to justify a high ranking in A. Additionally, it faces harsh competition from Huntail, Politoed, and Simipour as a dedicated Special Offensive Water-type.-L → A-: Has not seen nearly enough usage as of late. Although a general blanket check to physical attackers, Pignite and Scraggy tend to give it issue thanks to their ways around its will-o-wisp burns. Compared to fellow Grass-types Servine and Jumpluff, it’s extremely passive and does not appreciate switching into Water-types whatsoever due to potential Scald burns or the widespread Toxic spam in the metagame. → A- Although a premier Spike setter, its awkward mix of bulk and offensive capability leaves it lacking in too many matchups. It also has several move set restraints, needing coverage for Poison and Flying-types, while also benefiting from utilities options like Taunt, Roar, and Synthesis that it much forgo on certain builds. → A-: Normal/Grass STAB has become a bit harder to utilize thanks to a rise in Poison and Steel-types, as well as Normal and Grass-type competition in Furfrou, Persian, Jumpluff and Simisage. → B+: Extremely match-up dependent. Although it loves to Pressure stall Future Sight Duosion, it’s Knock Off prone and is easy to chip down with hazard damage and Pursuit. → B+: While still valued as a solid check to Electric-types, Sand Stream’s unfortunate side effect of halving Synthesis healing makes it an ill-advised partner for the Grass-types that it desperately needs to assist it with Cleric support. Additionally, the rise in alternate Stealth Rock setters, such as Gigalith and Carbink, makes Hippopotas harder to justify a team slot. → B+: Does not appreciate how bulkier the metagame has gotten, especially with the rise of Rock and Steel-types that tank its Brave Bird. Reliance on Life Orb for damage output when combined with a Rocks weakness makes it very easy to wear down and take out. → B+: Rising Poison-type competition in the form of Ivysaur, Swalot, and especially Trubbish has made Whirlipede not nearly as spammable as in prior metagames. → B+: An awkward assortment of bulk is a big culprit of Wigglytuff’s drop. It’s still a decent check to Scraggy and Vibrava thanks to its Fairy-type and obscene HP, but into most everything else, it tends to flounder and lose offensive momentum. → B: Quad Stealth Rock weak set-up sweeper is just not good. Has very little opportunity to Quiver Dance and hates the rise of Rock and Steel-types. → B: Vanilluxe is simply better in this metagame. Although Shadow Ball is decent tech for Bronzor and Politoed, it’s hard to argue for when you can just click a Choice Specs or Life Orb-boosted Freeze-Dry/Hidden Power Fire without much to punish you. → B: See above, except it also faces stiff competition as a Spike setter. The rise in Trubbish and Whirlipede continues to do it no favors, even if its offensive capabilities with Freeze Dry can be tempting to justify. → B: Guts boosted Facades are inherently strong. That is, of course, assuming you get the opportunity to fire them off in this climate. Raticate is getting constantly chipped throughout a game, between hazard damage and its own status chipping at it (pick your, well, poison between badly poisoned and 12% burn damage). Add on the constant presence of bulky Ghost, Rock, and Steel-types, it’s just a bad time for the top percentage rat. → B-: Similar reasonings to Golduck. Rain just does not have the usage for such a high ranking, especially when better breakers and sweepers exist. → B-: It still has its usual bag of tricks such as statuses, Heal Bell and Healing Wish, but it just doesn't have the usage to justify a ranking as high as B. Growing competition from Duosion does not help matters either. → B-: On paper, Chinchou is a good check to top-tier special attackers such as Electabuzz, Magmar, and Simipour that can pivot with Volt Switch. In practice, it’s a little too passive in nature. It’s also much more Knock Off weak compared to its competition in Politoed and especially Seaking. → B-: Drill Run is a decent niche, but it’s incredibly prediction reliant for a Choice Band user that’s taking 25% from Stealth Rock. Most often you'd prefer other Normal-types such as Furfrou, Lopunny, or Sawsbuck.C tiers: A vast amount of the changes is simply cleaning house, as a majority had either not seen relevant play in a long time or just did not hold a significant enough niche anymore (rest easy Snubbull, my beautiful child).
→ B Tour banlist, team validator and threat list have also been updated post Purugly. I've reformatted the NFE section of the threat list, as listing "Notable NFEs" is a bit dubious given the shifts in viability. Instead, the threat list notates any illegal NFEs and the tier they are listed. I’ve also gone ahead and tweaked the generational differences:
- Added notation about Terastalization (I’m aware this seems pointless, but I want this resource to be an educational tool for anyone that’s coming from S/V and looking into ORAS fresh).
- Added new, relevant items introduced in S/V. Removed mention of plates as they have returned in S/V.
- Added an amendment about Protean.
- Removed the mention of Z-crystal items.
- Updated the move pool differences.
I will be continually looking over this to ensure accuracy. If you see anything missing that you feel is important, please reach out and I will have it amended.
Be on the lookout for more updates to come! We’ll be planning some larger-scale updates on the resources in the near future! Huge thanks to the council, and to all of the ORAS player base that continues to keep this metagame thriving (Also shouts to 5gen in particular for still having that MS Paint banner I made that died on the forum post LOL). I’ve been with this metagame for nearly a decade, and I hope I can continue to see it develop for decades more. (Someone should probably check with czim after these shifts as well
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Hey all! Recently there have been complaints about the current state of ADV ZU. With the tier being pretty heavily played given its time in the ROA Spotlight, the Council feels a quick survey is in order to gauge the playerbase's thoughts on elements deemed problematic. If you've played ADV ZU recently, and especially if you have participated in the tours, doing this survey would be a great help in showing us where the players think the tier should go. This survey's deadline is December 10th, this Sunday.
Link - ADV ZU Suspect Interest Survey (google.com)
Link - ADV ZU Suspect Interest Survey (google.com)
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just a bit more context on why delcatty specifically: adv council acknowledges that the metagame is currently very stale, and that fat and stall builds thrive currently by invalidating balance and bulky offense ones. this isnt inherently bad by any means, and it is not the only viable playstyle in the metagame, but we understand that the playerbase is very dissatisfied with the state of affairs.
we chose delcatty for the survey in particular because we think that it's the biggest enabler of these archetypes in the metagame. we want to be explicitly clear in that delcatty itself is not broken, but its ability to wish + heal bell itself and its teammates--most notably other bulky and defensive mons like koffing, lileep, and dustox--makes it nigh impossible to make progress against these types of teams. its typical set of wish/protect/heal bell/body slam is exploitable for sure (shuppet comes to mind), but this pokemon does not exist in a vacuum, and it has 5 other partners to fall back on and handle whatever you think you might have to answer it. as mentioned earlier, balance and bulky offense teams have a nearly unwinnable matchup versus fat and stall teams featuring delcatty's support. additionally, body slam is a great option that keeps delcatty from being too passive and means that no offensive checks can come in for free (bar the aforementioned shuppet) unless they are willing to risk the paralysis.
we believe that if delcatty were to be removed from the tier, it would be easier to break past fat and stall, and would allow for healthier interactions in battles and a more satisfied playerbase overall.
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Why not allow the mons ranked C or lower in PU back in like Anorith and Weepinbell? I'm pretty sure only Quilava and Gloom have actually been tried in ZU out of the current ZUBL mons.
The tier is currently frozen, though there is a debate on whether or not it should be unfrozen. Ultimately, in order to not completely restart years of development for ADV ZU, we'll most likely look to see if individual Pokemon that wouldn't totally change the meta can be freed as opposed to freeing all of them at once. However, the current situation with Delcatty will need be settled first.
I'd also like to comment on this unfreezing. PUs VR will be being updated soon as ADV Grand Slam Is nearing conclusion. Before we decide to have a conversation about unfreezing we'd like PUs VR to be up to date and ready to use for testing. Moreover as Gangsta Spongebob said, We currently do not have the playerbase and community at our disposal to rework an entire years worth of analysis. The council has written a large portion of them ourselves as well as the article we produced. Granted this should not be something holding us back from going through with this, but we as a council have agreed to take baby steps with our meta despite the large leeps and bounds we've made towards its accessibility.
If you feel that ADV ZU needs to be unfrozen then I'm tasking you with helping develop that meta when the time comes to talk about it. As it stands none of the council members are comfortable with making this change until we are positive that PU has an up to date VR, a sizeable playerbase interested and willing to help expedite this change, and a positive community willing to help contribute and grow the meta.
