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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Welcome to the ZeroUsed Old Gens Hub. This thread contains resources for the ZeroUsed tiers of older generations - Sun and Moon (SM) ZU,Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (ORAS) ZU, Black and White (BW) ZU, Diamond/Pearl/Platinum (DPP) ZU, Advance (ADV) ZU (or Generation 3 ZU), and Gold/Silver/Crystal (GSC) ZU. This thread will also serve as a place to hold discussion about the older generations of ZU. Each post contains Viability Rankings, sample teams, and a list of mechanics of the generation that is different from the current generation. Feel free to post your thoughts on a particular aspect of a generation, successful cores, underrated Pokemon, teams you want feedback on, and anything else related to old gens ZU. We hope to bring these metagames more exposure.
Huge thank you to Aaronboyer for providing the ORAS and ADV Metagame resources.
Welcome to SS ZU! Now considered an old gen with the introduction of SV, resources will be linked to their original sources that are now closed and archived. Artwork coming soon!
Welcome to the SM ZU Viability Rankings. In this thread, Pokemon are ranked based on their ability to function within the ZU Metagame. This includes many factors, such as versatility, effectiveness, ability to handle metagame trends, size of niche, and several others. Since these are likely to be highly contested, there are a few rules to abide by:
Post reasoning. Posts like ‘Furfrou should go to B because it can use Cotton Guard and has Fur Coat’ will be deleted and possibly infracted. You are expected to give sound logic for the nominations you make. Any one-liners will be deleted and possibly infracted.
Be civil. It doesn’t matter how heavily you disagree with a post, at the end of the day it’s an opinion posted by another person so throwing insults at them isn’t gonna be okay.
No discussion of future bans, suspects, or metagames. We aren’t gonna rise Seaking because Rotom-Frost may drop, no matter how likely it is. We also won't drop Gourgeist-XL because Pinsir may get tested.
If you want to nominate a currently unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays are a requirement. Preferably, these are replays against high level players so that you really show us that this Pokemon can put in work.
At the same time, do not base your entire argument around replays and usage statistics. It’s important to show why this Pokemon performs, not just that it does.
Pokemon within sub-ranks are ordered alphabetically. The Usually Useless rank holds Pokemon that have a niche, but it is so minimal that it is almost never recommended to use them.
Also, the Pokemon’s names in this thread link to analyses, either uploaded or WIP, or sample sets! S Rank Electivire Swanna
SM ZU Sample Teams Mostly taken from LC’s sample team thread by Altariel von Sweep
Welcome to the ZU Sample Team Archive! Here you will find a collection of solid, successful teams intended to help new players get acclimated to the metagame and different playstyles found within the tier. Everyone is welcome to submit a team, but in order to maintain a good quality archive, your team will be subject to approval from the council before its addition. You may use any team in this archive as you see fit. Teams are updated in the OP.
Team Submission Guidelines:
Requirements:
Importable of team
Team description: Describe how the team works, what each member does, and list any glaring weaknesses
Teams must be good, reflective of the current metagame, and easy to use
After you’ve submitted your team, the council will look it over and either add it or post here explaining why we will not.
Substitute Swords Dance Bouffalant is a great wincon in the current metagame thanks to its ability to setup on common Pokemon such as Mareanie and Choice-locked Exeggutor and off switches it forces. Silvally-Dark provides Defog support, pivoting, and checks Pokemon such as Bronzor and Dusclops for Bouffalant. Stealth Rock Torterra and physically defensive Dusclops form the defensive backbone of the team. Defog Swanna adds another check to Combusken and Mareanie and helps against Toxic Spikes. For the final slot, I couldn't really find a suitable Choice Scarf user and felt that Sash Counter Kadabra would provide much needed glue, being able to check attackers in a pinch and having the freedom to switch up moves and threaten things such as Gourgeist-XL, Swanna, and Machoke.
Notable weaknesses are CB Komala, Nasty Plot Raichu, opposing Swanna, Simipour, and Electivire (both mixed and Choice Scarf).
Bronzor and Poliwrath are a great defensive core because blanket check various attackers such as Exeggutor, Swords Dance Combusken, and Simipour. Silvally-Poison acts as the team's Defogger. helps against Toxic Spikes and Pokemon such as Leafeon, Simisage, and Mareanie, and helps bring Torterra and Simisear in safely with U-turn. Swords Dance+Synthesis Torterra helps against Ground-types such as Golem and Marowak, and acts as a wallbreaker. Nasty Plot Simisear is another breaker and provides much needed speed. Choice Scarf Rotom-S round out the team, providing Speed control, another check to Swanna and Combusken, and provides good support with Trick and Will-O-Wisp.
Weaknesses this team has include rain and Golduck, Choice Band Komala, Electric-types such as Raichu, Choice Scarf Electivire, and Silvally-Electric.
The first team is a standard and incredibly easy to use hyper offense team that features SD Ninjask and Choice Specs Mr. Mime. These two Pokemon work very well with one another as Ninjask can bring in Mr. Mime off a U-turn, can threaten faster Pokemon such as Leafeon and Silvally-Dark, and can break through special walls such as Lickilicky and Bronzor at +2 for Mr. Mime. Similarly, Choice Specs Mr. Mime is able to punch through Ninjask's defensive checks such as Altaria, Gourgeist-XL, and Rotom-S to help pave a way for a mid- or late-game sweep. Assault Vest Komala and Silvally-Dragon provide entry hazard removal, more pivoting through U-turn, and necessary offensive and defensive utility for the team. Golem is the Stealth Rock user and mandatory Normal-type and Electivire check. Smack Down enables Golem to beat Bronzor and Sucker Punch is clutch against weakened offensive threats such as Kadabra, Exeggutor, and Simisear. Lastly, Choice Scarf Electivire provides speed control and more pivoting.
This team is the result of a collaborative effort from 85percent, quagsgone, and me. It’s a standard bulky offense team featuring two of the most dangerous set-up sweepers in ZU, Crustle and Swanna. Bronzor sets up stealth rocks and, thanks to its many resistances, checks a significant portion of the tier, including Swanna, Golem, and Bouffalant. 8 speed EVs allow it to get the jump on opposing Bronzors and psywave them first. Silvally-Dragon defogs and uses its strong draco meteor to force switches and grab momentum. Thunderbolt allows Silvally to force Mareanie out and defog its t-spikes away. Crustle functions as a set-up sweeper that’s difficult to revenge on account of its bulk and as a secondary normal resist for things like Komala and Kecleon. Figy berry mitigates rocks damage with 30 HP IVs allowing it to activate after three switch-ins to stealth rock. Flyinium Z gives Swanna the opportunity to boost its attack with Z-mirror move, or in cases where that’s not feasible, a one-time nuke with Z-brave bird. Defensively, Swanna is key to checking and revenging Combusken. Simisage fills the void left by Shiftry’s departure and creates opportunities for Crustle and Swanna to sweep by breaking defensive staples such as Bronzor, Mareanie, Pyukumuku, and Dusclops. Scarf Electivire rounds out the team, providing speed control and an electric immunity which forces mind games for teams that rely on Electivire to revenge Swanna.
This team is fast-paced and focuses more on pressuring the opposing team than playing reactively, and so it doesn’t have defensive counterplay for everything. Crustle and Z-me first Pinsir are notable threats, but Crustle can be revenged by Electivire and Swanna, and Pinsir by Silvally-Dragon as long as it’s healthy. This team lacks a dark resist, so Pawniard and other dark types must be played around very carefully, but sucker punch can be exploited. Silvally-Dragon has good matchups versus most hazard setters, with the exception of Bronzor which is susceptible to being worn down. This is important as Crustle and Swanna hate switching into stealth rocks, and the game often revolves around finding the right time for them to set-up and win.
Welcome to the ORAS ZU resources and viability rankings! Pokémon are ranked based on many factors, including how versatile they are, their effect on the metagame, and reliability. All ranks are sorted alphabetically. If you'd like to see a change in the rankings, please leave a constructive post and provide evidence to support your reasoning.
To be played under the [Gen 6] ZU format. Standard bans, including anything PU and above, apply.
Each Pokémon has its own mini-analysis, akin to the Smogon StrategyDex. Just click on the name of the Pokémon to find its recommended set.
S Rank - These Pokémon are the best of the best. They require minimal support to function and should be prepared for by any serious team.
B Rank - Notably fares well, either in response to certain threats in the metagame or occupying a useful niche to distinguish itself. These tend to have a few roadblocks that can dampen their performance.
Beartic, Gigalith, and Vanilluxe do not have their weather abilities from Generation VII
Inner Focus, Oblivious, Own Tempo, and Scrappy are not immune to Intimidate; Rattled is not triggered by Intimidate
Koffing only has Levitate
Protean will change your typing according to the move being chosen. This is not limited to your first non-STAB choice.
Soundproof Pokémon are immune to Heal Bell and their own sound moves
Weak Armor only boosts Speed by 1 stage
Ariados, Beartic, Chimecho, Corsola, Illumise, Lunatone, Masquerain, Magcargo, Noctowl, Solrock, and Volbeat do not have their updated stats from Generation VII
Mechanics:
Burn damage deals 1/8th of a Pokémon’s max HP at the end of the turn
The chance to hit yourself, while confused, is 50%
The chance to land a critical hit is 6.25% without modifiers
Paralysis reduces speed by 75%
Terastalization does not exist
Items:
Blunder Policy, Clear Amulet, Covert Cloak, Eject Pack, Heavy-Duty Boots, Loaded Dice, Protective Pads, Room Service, and Throat Spray are not in ORAS
Pinch berries restore 1/8th of a Pokémon’s max HP when at 50% HP or less
Welcome to BW ZU. The purpose of this is to have a place to discuss changes to the BW ZU Viability Rankings listed below, any meta trends you've experienced, Pokemon or cores you've been using, and/or any teams you might wish to share and get feedback on. We've made this because we want to bring more exposure to what we believe is an incredibly fun metagame.
S rank Pokemon are the best of the best and are usable in any team or structure. They define the metagame and no other Pokemon available can do what they do. They require no support to utilize and are capable of supporting teams extremely well. You are doing your opponent a favor by not using these Pokemon.
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A+
A+ ranked Pokemon are staples in the current metagame but their offensive/defensive presence is less notable than S rank Pokemon, yet one should consider them without hesitation when building. They are all capable in their own right, easy to use, and proficient in providing great support while requiring little to no support.
A
A Rank Pokemon are a less capable than A+ because they are either more limited in overall capabilities and roles or have exploitable flaws, but the team utility/function they provide can't be matched. They are all very capable offensively/defensively. A rank Pokemon may require support to work.
A-
A- rank Pokemon have glaring flaws but maintain unique capabilities that enable them to be large threats in the current meta, creating powerful offensive/defensive pairings. Pokemon in this rank will require support to be utilized properly.
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B+
B+ rank have a more specific function in the metagame that they are capable of fulfilling quite well. While they boast great capabilities, they require more support to work than A- rank Pokemon. These Pokemon are limited to specific roles/archetypes and/or require a lot of support to be utilized properly.
B
B rank Pokemon are far more limited in how they can be utilized, either fulfilling very specific roles, and requiring a lot of support to work well. Their success in their role is less of guarantee as well.
B-
B- rank Pokemon have obvious flaws with limited capabilities and are outclassed by higher ranked Pokemon. They fulfill very specific roles and are not easily put into a team. They are very hard to use and requires a LOT of team support.
--------
C
C rank Pokemon are viable, but you are probably better off trying another Pokémon than using these. They have unique niches and are usable on teams tailored to support them. C rank Pokemon can find success against certain match ups, but their success is not a guarantee.
Damage calculator importable. (current as of 1/1/2022). Can be imported into the Pokemon Showdown! Damage Calculator for ease of calculating against BW ZU-relevant sets during battles without having to tweak entire movesets, natures, and EVs. Just copy and paste the sets into the Import/Export feature and calc away. All sets are prefixed with "BW ZU" so you can easily identify the relevant sets from the dropdown menu. Please note that this paste does not have move options (e.g. "Return / Double-Edge") because it will cause those moveslots to be blank when imported into the calculator. For comprehensive move options, please reference the respective pastes in the Viability Rankings above.
More niche or underexplored sets are separated by a slash
Note: these teams are still legal and viable, but are not optimized for the current meta.
Arbok VoltTurn by thebtboy
Octillery + CB Lairon Offense by thebtboy
Taunt Spam Bulky Offense by thebtboy
Water Spam Balance by thebtboy
Dragonair Haz Stack Semi-Stall by Mirbro
Normal Spam Balance by Mirbro
Pawniard + Pikachu Smurf HO by SBPC
Physical Hyper Offense by DnB
SD Leafeon + Scarf Exploud Balance by Mirbro
Specs Exploud + Dragonair Bulky Offense by thebtboy
Standard Sun by Tack
Superman Spike Stack by Louna
List of Pokemon BW ZU Validator
Banlist: PU (see validator), Articuno, Dragonair, Glalie, Machoke, Marowak, Regigigas, Trubbish, Whirlipede, Omanyte, Sleep Moves, Baton Pass
Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel instead of neutral
Sleep turns reset to 0 upon switching out
Hidden Power has a max base power of 70, and the base power depends on the Pokemon's IVs Several other moves had different base power, PP, or accuracy
Welcome to DPP ZU! The purpose of this is to have a place to discuss changes to the DPP ZU Viability Rankings listed below, any meta trends you've experienced, Pokemon or cores you've been using, and/or any teams you might wish to share and get feedback on. We've made this because we want to bring more exposure to what we believe is an incredibly fun metagame.
To be played under the Gen 4 ZU format. Baton Pass is limited in this tier. Users may pass Substitute and any stat changes from moves like Swords Dance, Iron Defense, and Agility, as well as omni-boosts from moves like Ancient Power, but may not pass any stats alongside Speed. This means that you cannot pass, for instance, a Dragon Dance boost. Furthermore, players may only have one Baton Pass user on each team.
In addition to the above restriction on Baton Pass, the following elements were deemed too overpowered or uncompetitive by the DPP ZU councilmembers and are therefore banned from use: Damp Rock, Electabuzz, Gorebyss, Kingler, Lapras, Marowak, Raichu, Rampardos, Walrein.
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DPP ZU Viability Rankings - Click the links for sample sets!
Viability Rankings are a method to sort and organize based on how viable, effective, and consistent a Pokemon is in the tier.
S Rank - These Pokémon are the best of the best. They require minimal support to function and should be prepared for on any serious team.
B Rank - Notably fare well, either in response to certain threats in the metagame or occupying a useful niche to distinguish itself. These tend to have a few roadblocks that can dampen their performance.
First off -- I've added Drud and BeatsBlack to the DPP ZU council. Both are strong players with deep knowledge of DPP ZU. Huargensy and neomon have also departed the council, so we wish them the best.
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Next up -- here's a VR update for DPP ZU to account for the meta's development throughout Olympiad, Classic, and now ZUPL V. The voters were me, wooper, BeatsBlack, Drud, and TTK.
High B --> High A Low A --> High A High B --> High A High B --> Low A Low B --> Low A High B --> Low...
Here's a DPP ZU Viability Rankings update, as well as my quick perspective on the changes and metagame overall.
The voters were me, wooper, BeatsBlack, Drud, and HSOWA. I would share the full slate, but I gave up after copy+paste failed. The DPP ZU Hub has been updated accordingly, so go look at that.
Low A --> High A
High B --> Low A
High B -->...
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DPP ZU Sample Teams
Sample teams are here to help new players jump right into the metagame.
Pretty straight forward team. Pressure leads/normal checks with Yanma, Raticate breaks/u-turns into the appropriate mon, Diglett traps normal checks and electrics/sets up SR, Lairon checks normals/can potentially sweep with Rock Polish, Politoed stops rain/Kingler, and scarf Fearow revenges/stops sun/absorbs sleep.
Another variant of normal spam but this time with a solid defensive core. Persian deters hazards and U-turns out into breakers while also chipping normal stops. Exploud decimates walls including normal stops and allows the other normals to more effectively clean. Scarf Chatot revenges for the team and appreciates the work Exploud puts in. Swalot is thw wincon of the team. Curse, RestTalk, Return lets it setup and win after ghosts and normal checks have been weakened or knocked out. Tangela checks kingler and normal stops while also throwing off strong attacks. Solrock is the teams normal/flying resist and rocker. It can catch mons of guard with endure + cutsap Boom/Rocks.
A sturdier team than the rest. It revolves around detering hazards with lead Persian, setting your own hazards up with Pineco, and choosing a wincon. Kingler is the main sweeper, and it really appreciates having hazards up to pressure its checks. Kingler also serves as a SSI to physical waters. Pupitar provides the team with an offensive normal/electric stop while also being a potential wincon with DD. Stunky stops ghosts, and can effectively revenge kill with hazards. Skunk also gives Kingler and Pupitar an easier time setting up after it mementos. SpDef Dusclops finishes the team, making a great defensive backbone in combination with Pineco, while also spinblocking.
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DPP ZU Role Compendium
A comprehensive list of roles of all potentially viable pokemon in the tier.
HAZARD/SPINNERS
Stealth Rock:
Spikes:
Toxic Spikes:
Rapid Spin:
Spin Blockers:
CLERICS
Wish:
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy:
Healing Wish:
PIVOTS -- Offensive:
Offensive U-Turn:
Defensive U-Turn:
Baton Pass:
PHAZERS
Roar:
Whirlwind:
Haze:
WALLS/TANKS
Physical Walls:
Special Walls:
Mixed Walls:
WALL BREAKERS
Physical Attackers:
Special Attackers:
Mixed Attackers:
Stallbreakers:
Choice Band:
Choice Specs:
Expert Belt:
SETUP THREATS
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Agility/Rock Polish:
Nasty Plot:
Bulk Up:
Dragon Dance:
Curse:
Crit-Me-Not:
SPEED CONTROL
Natural Speed:
Choice Scarf:
PRIORITY
Fake Out:
Sucker Punch:
Extreme Speed:
Mach Punch:
Vacuum Wave:
Bullet Punch:
Shadow Sneak:
Aqua Jet:
Ice Shard:
SETUP SUPPORT
Light Screen:
Reflect:
Safeguard:
Memento:
Baton Pass:
ITEM MANIPULATION
Knock Off:
Trick:
Switcheroo:
SELF-KO
Explosion:
Self-Destruct:
WEATHER
Sun Setters:
Chlorophyll:
Sun Wallbreakers:
Rain Setters:
Swift Swim:
Rain Wallbreakers:
MISCELLANEOUS
Pursuit:
Taunt:
Encore:
Trapper:
Sleep:
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DPP ZU Speed Tiers
Speed Tiers consisting of all viable and niche Pokemon in DPP ZU. Speed Tiers 2.0 by skrimps.
Very Important To-Know before playing Gen 4:
No team preview, lead is the first Pokemon in your party/teambuilder.
Status Move Changes: (IMPORTANT)
Defog cannot be used to clear your side's hazards, making it essentially useless. Rapid Spin is only form of removal.
Magic Coat does not reflect hazards, making it relatively useless.
Taunt lasts 3-5 turns.
Growth only raises SpA, not Atk.
Tail Glow raises two stages instead of three.
You can paralyze Electric types with any paralyzing move, but not Ground types except with Stun Spore.
You can put Grass types to sleep/paralysis with Powders and Spores.
Paralysis reduces your speed by 3/4 (1/2 now)
Burn does 1/8 hp per turn (1/16th now)
Confusion hits yourself 50% of the time (33% now)
Sleep lasts 1-4 turns.
Wish heals 50% flat HP.
Damage Changes:
Knock off's BP is 20, meaning it is utility based only. Items are usually not as crucial as later gens, so this move is usually not recommended.
Hidden Power has a max base power of 70, and the base power depends on the Pokemon's IVs.
Giga drain and Drain Punch (8 PP) have 60 power (16 PP, 75 BP now)
Multi-hit moves have lower power (Icicle Spear 10 BP, Bullet Seed 10 BP) (25 now), or lower accuracy (Rock Blast 80% Accuracy) (90% now)
Aura Sphere is 90 power (80 now), Blizzard/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump/Thunder is 120 power (110 now), Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Surf is 95 power (90 now)
Sucker Punch is 80 power (70 now)
High Jump Kick and Jump Kick had 100 and 85 power respectively (now 130 and 100)
Leech Life is 20 power, so it is basically unviable (80 now)
Crits do 2x damage (1.5x now), and have a 6.25% chance of occurance (4.167% now), Sniper does 3x damage, vs 2.25x now
Accuracy Changes:
Trapping moves (Fire spin, Whirlpool) have 70% accuracy (85% now)
Will-O-Wisp is 75% accuracy (85% now), Toxic is 85% accuracy (90% now), Thunder Wave is 100% accuracy (90% now)
Gunk Shot is 70% accuracy (80% now)
Glare is 75% accuracy (100% now)
Psywave is 80% accuracy (100% before it was removed in Gen 8)
Poison types can miss toxic.
Secondary Effect Changes:
Chatter has a 31% chance to confuse (100% now)
Rapid Spin does not increase speed.
Priority Changes:
Fake out and Extremespeed are only +1 Priority
Ability Changes:
Sturdy only stops OHKO moves.
Soundproof Pokémon are immune to Heal Bell
Typing Changes:
Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel instead of neutral
Fairy-type does not exist; mono-Fairy types are normal, dual Fairy-types are their primary typing.
Resources here are archived because while they are no longer relevant or up to date with the current metagame, we wanted to recognize and honor the work put into compiling them, as well as the preserving former iterations of the tier.
Speed Tiers by Procrastinasian DPP Spreadsheet by Procrastinasian: Contains everything you need to know to play the metagame, including all legal Pokemon, Gen 4 Mechanics, updated Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Speed Tiers, and a Role Compendium. The resources above are heavily referenced from this spreadsheet. DPP ZU Validator by Procrastinasian: An easy-to-use tool to help make sure your Pokemon are valid for DPP ZU. To use, paste from the PS teambuilder.
Welcome to ADV ZU! The purpose of this is to have a place to discuss changes to the ADV ZU Viability Rankings listed below, any meta trends you've experienced, Pokemon or cores you've been using, and/or any teams you might wish to share and get feedback on. We've made this because we want to bring more exposure to what we believe is an incredibly fun metagame. ADV ZU is in no way meant to overshadow the current metagame.
Baton Pass is limited to Dry Pass only in ADV ZU. You cannot use Baton Pass in conjunction with status moves that can pass a beneficial effect to any switch-in, including Substitute.
Given ADV PU's new VR, where every Pokemon that is B- or below is ZU, some of these resources might be outdated.
ADV ZU Viability Rankings
Viability Rankings are a method to sort and organize based on how viable, effective and consistent a Pokemon is in the tier. S Rank is given to Pokemon who dictate the metagame, are very easy to fit on teams, and work on many playstyles; C Rank is for Pokemon who might have a small niche in the metagame and require significant amount of team support to achieve this goal.
The following Pokemon are banned, and therefore not legal in ADV ZU. Poliwhirl Shelgon Yanma
The following role compendium is slightly outdated as a result of the recent unfreeze and shift from PU. An updated compendium will be released following the completion of ZU Olympiad II.
Cleric Support
Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
Wish
Disruption
Encore
Haze
Roar / Whirlwind
Taunt
Trick
Welcome to the GSC ZU resources post. If you're new to GSC, here are some specific mechanics from this generation.
Huge thanks to File 13 and the rest of the GSC Discord community for helping compile the resources below! (Holly, Charles A. Theist, Talloween, Akiko Kotone and others!). If you have any questions about the metagame, feel free to ask.
Setup
Agility -
Baton Pass -
Barrier -
Curse - Everything in the game, with the exception of a few special cases, like Wobbuffet and the Viridian Forest worms/cocoons, for example
Meditate -
Sharpen -
Swords Dance -
Sleep/Status
Confuse Ray -
Glare -
Hypnosis -
Leech Seed -
Lovely Kiss -
Nightmare -
Sing -
Sleep Powder -
Spore -
Stun Spore -
Thunder Wave -
Weather
Rain Dance -
Sunny Day -
Other unique moves
Encore -
Explosion -
Heal Bell -
Light Screen -
Mean Look -
Moonlight -
Morning Sun -
Perish Song -
Quick Attack -
Reflect -
Super Fang -
Welcome to the RBY ZU resources post! If you're unfamiliar with RBY mechanics, then I highly recommend checking out this article written by May to get a better understanding. The Pokémon listed in the VR and Useful Moves tabs are organized alphabetically. Feel free to discuss the metagame, share teams, or ask any questions that you may have! Resources will be updated accordingly as soon as possible.
Poliwag Balance by GetSleidSun -
Fast Physical Offense by royzin
Diglett + Pidgeot Offense by royzin
Scyther Offense by BeatsBlack
Double Ground by BeatsBlack
Marowak Paraspam by BeatsBlack
Double Fighting Paraspam by BeatsBlack
August 4, 2022 - Alpha-alpha ZU created January 25, 2023 - First Shift [Rises: Gastly Drops: Arcanine, Electrode, Magmar, Poliwag, Sandslash, Slowpoke, Vileplume] March 4, 2023 - Voting Slate 1 [Banned: Arcanine, Sandslash] April 9, 2023 - NU VR Update places Electrode at B-, thus making Electrode a NU Pokémon [Rises: Electrode] December 11, 2023 - PU VR Update places Scyther, Magmar, and Vileplume in B1, thus making all of them PU Pokémon. In addition, Abra was ranked lower than the cutoff and has subsequently fallen to ZU. Sandslash was unbanned in response to the new shifts to further test. [Rises: Magmar, Scyther, Vileplume Drops: Abra Unbanned: Sandslash] April 2, 2024 - Arbok is banned via blind voting
I know the dpp zu vr isn't the best atm. but I want to know why dustox is C? is it just a mediocre special wall with recovery or something? and what about vespiquen?
Dustox makes use of its good support movepool, useful typing, and reliable recovery to function as a decent special wall. Vespiqueen is actually very bulky and makes as a decent Defend Order + Heal Order setup user that can be very difficult to break through. It requires a large amount of support though.
Also ı want so say what makes clef A ranked in Gen 4 ZU.when ı see clef it is used mostly for cm but it wasn t even that great considering it s bulk is mediocre without evio boost takes huge chunk of damage from something like hydro pump. (ı even used rocks and it was underwhelming?)[note that Sorry If I sounded rude.I am not hating clef nor ı want bash this mon hard but from replays and my experience it was mostly mediocre] http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4nu-840440715 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4pu-840359157
Great post! Clefairy could definitely be considered for a drop but its high usage in the games being played and overall ability to dominate stall makes it very useful. I however agree that its bulk is kind of disappointing.
In the future, try to refrain from asking "why did this move up/down" or "why is this pokemon here". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. This encourages discussion and is overall more beneficial to creating an accurate representation of the metagame!
Let's talk about Magma, the mon' that everyone has forgotten since Maganon appeared.
At first sight Magmar seems to have some good points for a ZU mon'. Good offense stats but maybe not enough? , a correct speed for the tier and a movepool whose could be good
-if it did not have as much of water type.
Some explanations :
Currently I found 2 viable sets,
In the first set we try to set up Magmar to give it a good offensive presence and fill its lack of attack.
And here comes this first problem of Magmar in ZU. Its fire type is really annoying (defensively) for a Mon who need to set up ;
-25% on Stealth Rock
Weak to a big part of the meta
In addition to his speed which is not enough for a Sweeper.
It means that you will have to use 1 or 2 mons to cover Magmar and makes it good. (sticky web/sleep power users)
In this second set we use the special attack of Magmar and the Eviolite to make Magmar more resistant.
This set has the advantage of being able to hit most part of the tier, except ; bulky water mon or faster mon' who can kill Magmar.
Like for the first set you will have to use a sticky user to fill the lack of speed of Magmar which can be really annoying du to the reliable number of pokémon whose learn sticky web.
Also I think Heatmor would be better as special attacker, then it also has a big lack of speed.
Finally, Magmar is still a good mon' but lacks speed and attack. (and also charism)
If some parts of my post are not really clear or you want that I explain better some points make it know.
click in the image to get the paste for ORAS ZU :]
A good point you brought there. Magmar is quite good, with great special stats and a considerable physical attack that, if running BD, makes it a great sweeper. Its speed is not bad at all reaching the 90ish that many Pokémon would like to have.
But what it makes a Pokémon really good it is not only itself but the metagame. If we take a deeper look in the tier Magmar has a great advantage. Fire type Pokémon are practically absent. Moreover, there are a lot of Pokémon that are weak to any seat of Magmar (like Gourgeist) in the A and S rankings. Just to mention some: it gets a 3HKO but it can do a 2HKO with some good rolls against Buzz, it can deal great damage to Simipour if it is switching in, OHKO to Simisear. For A ranking, it can deal great damage again or completely deal with many of the Pokémon out there. Only some like Gigalith, Heatmor ... can tank some hits but due to the high coverage of Magmar's set (the special one I am focusing on), and regarding some lures, it can claim a kill to any of its counters.
Simisage + Simipour are awesome Pokémon in S tier. No Simisear there makes a great hole that Magmar has tried to occupy although with less speed and less overall functionality.
I think A- is a great position for Magmar due to having a niche set (BD) and a great set like the Evio/LO more BO oriented. This patch up the hole that was left due to Simisear vanishing.
I hope we can discuss it if you really feel it needs a drop :).
Been playing DPP ZU a bit more as of late and wanted to do a few things:
1) Nomating Stunky for C+ rank
In a tier where two of the six best mons are ghost types, a solid pursuit trapper is needed. Stunky fills that role with ease thanks to its dark typing and its access to the move. Stunky also offers other niches besides just trapping: it resists both of Gastly's stab and can garuntee the kill, it outspeeds and can taunt both lead Onix and Solrock, it has access to STAB priority in Sucker Punch, and it can absorb the rare Toxic Spike. While its held back by its speed, low attack, and subpar bulk stunky still can play a vital role in helping your team secure the W.
2) Posting a few samples
Not too many ppl play the tier and I'd like to make it a more accessible by posting these. Not Gonna go too far in depth cause these teams are rly simple.
https://pokepast.es/b8a5e8c3541f7412Pretty straight forward team. Pressure leads/normal checks with Yanma, Raticate breaks/u-turns into the appropriate mon, Diglett traps normal checks and electrics/sets up SR, Lairon checks normals/can potentially sweep with Rock Polish, Politoed stops rain/Kingler, and scarf Fearow revenges/stops sun/absorbs sleep.
https://pokepast.es/dbc0753d441ff5d0A sturdier team than the rest. It revovles around detering hazards with lead Persian, setting your own hazards up with Pineco, and choosing a wincon. Kingler is the main sweeper, and it really appreciates having hazards up to pressure its checks. Kingler also serves as a SSI to physical waters. Pupitar provides the team with an offensive normal/electric stop while also being a potential wincon with DD. Stunky stops ghosts, and can effectively revenge kill with hazards. Skunk also gives Kingler and Pupitar an easier time setting up after it mementos. SpDef Dusclops finishes the team, making a great defensive backbone in combination with Pineco, while also spinblocking.
https://pokepast.es/a04f52a09a793df8Another variant of normal spam but this time with a solid defensive core. Persian deters hazards and U-turns out into breakers while also chipping normal stops. Exploud decimates walls including normal stops and allows the other normals to more effectively clean. Scarf Chatot revenges for the team and appreciates the work Exploud puts in. Swalot is thw wincon of the team. Curse, RestTalk, Return lets it setup and win after ghosts and normal checks have been weakened or knocked out. Tangela checks kingler and normal stops while also throwing off strong attacks. Solrock is the teams normal/flying resist and rocker. It can catch mons of gaurd with endure + cutsap Boom/Rocks.
https://pokepast.es/3e2d7f82d47d9bfbSome ez cheese takes the last slot. Just antilead with Persian, U-turn into Diglett, Stunky, or a sweeper and click the appropriate move. Diglett traps as usual and sets up SR. Stunky traps ghosts and mementos for the team. Combusken can blow throw teams at +2 spe with its fully special set. Tangela disrupts balance with its sun set while also outrunning many offensive mons. Kinler Agilitys and kills anything not named Quagsire. Last but not least RP Solrock stops normals, lures Waters for Kingler and sweeps after teams are chipped.
The latest ADV ZU shift has occured. Enjoy the follow Viability Ranking changes and please welcome ADV ZU's newest addition, Castform, which has just dropped and will be currently placed at B. A sample set for Castform will hopefully be coming around next week. In the meantime, feel free to discuss the ADV ZU metagame and the addition of Castform.
VR Changes:
Bagon B --> C
Marill B --> C
Magnemite C --> B
Poliwag C --> B
Ledian D --> C
Voltorb D --> C
Castform New --> B
Bagon, while a solid Dragon Dance user, can be hard to set up with due to its pitiful bulk and the prevalence of Ice-type coverage from Pokemon such as Delibird, Delcatty, and Staryu. Marill hits like a truck, but isn't particularly fast or bulky enough to stand out from the plethora of other great Choice Band wallbreakers such as Delibird and Meditite. Magnemite has arisen as a decent Phys Def Gloom check an Flying switch-in, among other things, due to the numerous type resistances it brings, although still gets bopped by HP Ground coverage. Poliwag, while initially ranked lower for its reliance on the inaccurate Hypnosis, stands out for being one of the fastest Pokemon in the metagame. If it lands Hypnosis and gets the Belly Drum off, it can steamroll over teams lacking priority options in the back or one of the few Pokemon faster than Poliwag. Ledian has arose as one of the best screen setters for HO and has enough Special Defense to do so reliably. Voltorb has seen a lot of use lately for being the fastest Pokemon in all of ADV ZU and has proven to be an effective lead, even seeing use on 2/3 of our current sample teams. Lastly, Castform is initially ranked at B for its solid 70/70/70/70/70/70 stats and wide offensive movepool consisting of option such as Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Double-Edge, and Shadow Ball. However, it faces a lot of competition from Delcatty in particular due to its access to Wish and Calm Mind.
Points of Discussion:
Lileep B --> C
Wailmer B --> C
Croconaw C --> D
Onix C --> D
Spinda D --> UR
Any other nominations you might have...
Just wanted to gab about ADV ZU's newest addition, Castform. At first glance I really thought this thing was going to be a gimmicky piece of garbage that would never be able to solidify itself a niche in the tier, but after looking at its stats I noticed it has one of the highest Atk/Spatk stats of any normal type in the tier. So, I decided to make a few potential sets, and a fun team around it.
Castform @ Choice Band
Ability: Forecast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Water Pulse / Ice Beam
- Body Slam / Shadow Ball / Sleep Talk / Toxic
Thanks to Castform's solid base 70 Atk stat and its access to Double Edge its able to OHKO or 2HKO the majority of the tier. Castform's excellent movepool also allows it decimate any normal resists that plan to check it. Hidden Power Ground/Fighting do a ton of damage to normal checks like Magnemite, Nosepass, and Lileep. Water Pulse / Ice Beam either OHKO or 2HKO offensively threatening normal checks like Rhyhorn and Onix. The last slot comes down to preference: Body Slam provides decently strong STAB and a chance to paralyze foes, Shadow Ball gives perfect coverage with HP Fighting and can just be a nice move to throw out at times, Sleep Talk gives Castform the ability to absorb sleep and pressure weather sweepers with its fluid typing, and toxic is nice if you aim to predict and status your checks on the switch.
Basically a poor man's Delcatty. Castform has the niche of having Flamethrower and a slightly higher special attack, and that's worth noting. Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Flamethrower hit every mon in the tier, bar Chinchou for, for neutral damage. Hidden Power Grass is a nice coverage option to hit Chinchou for solid damage. Thunder Wave, Substitute, and Toxic give Castform extra utility whenever attacking isn't enough. Lum Berry can be ran over Leftovers to avoid status.
Just a really simple team to use. Try to either break with Castform early game or pivot in later on to secure kills. Chinchou can spam T-Wave for sweepers and Castform while breaking on its own. Pineco provides the sweepers and breakers with spikes, which in turn secures KOs for the team. Bayleef soaks up special attacks and can set up screens to support the team. Rhyhorn provides a check to normal types and a potential setup sweeper. Natu is the main sweeper of the team and it really appreciates the support other members give.
I've been playing dpp for awhile now and I wanted to do a few things.
Dusclops: High A > S Dusclops is an insanely polarizing force in DPP ZU as arguably the best defensive mon in the entire tier, with it's absolutely ridiculous RestTalk set, being able to wall off entire teams cleanly, while threatening physical checks and pursuit trappers with a nasty burn off it's Will-O-Wisp. Through my personal experiences of playing with this mon, it's power is unmistakably tier shaping, sometimes even pushing players to designate multiple checks to take it down. To top it off, it's amazing statpool and secondary set make it splashable as all hell, letting it fit into a mass majority of playstyles to do it's job of being the fattest thing in the tier.
Quagsire: High A > S
As well as rising Dusclops to a new S rank, I add that we should rise Quagsire as well. While not the polarizing harbinger of stall that Dusclops is, Quagsire is also immensely splashable between it's curse sweeper and defensive sets, being able to fit into a strong selection of teams and capitalize on its astounding Water/Ground typing both offensively and defensively.
Yanma: Mid B > Low A
Yanma should rise in my opinion due to how well it cleans teams up late game, and sometimes even mid game if it gets in as well as it does. It requires a good spin support to remove rocks, but once those are gone, this mon struts its stuff with a very powerful 2 STABs + Giga Drain set. Not much more to say here, just a very strong wallbreaker.
A Sample Team: FWG Semistall
Lairon @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Curse
Lairon makes an amazing lead for the team, being able to set rocks as well as threaten Solrock, one of the most common rockers used currently. Head Smash and Earthquake are an amazing move combination that allows Lairon to be an offensive threat while it's on field, while it's typing let's it serve as a normal check. The FWG core is pretty standard for the most part, Tangela to check enemy quagsire and sleep things that want to switch in on it. HP Fire let's it effectively remove Mawile and enemy Tangela. Flareon is surprisingly bulky and can take an astonishing amount of hits on the special side while pressuring physical attackers with potenial burn and stallbreaking with toxic, with protect letting it serve as a Slaking check. Wartortle removes rocks, Quagsire is a wincon, and Dusclops sits on whatever it wishes to come in on, with pressure allowing it to pp stall if the need ever arises.
Alright, to build off of what SBPC said, I'm gonna put out a hot take:
Dusclops is unhealthy for DPP ZU and should be suspect tested.
This thing can soak hits for days from most of the tier, and that's just considering standard sets. Mons that would be otherwise really good like Yanma just struggle to break A- because of this monster blocking their path. On top of this, even if you're running offense, you can run it to counter Persian, an otherwise huge threat to offense, simply because it's so splashable. It can also check mons such as Banded Granbull or Banded mightyena with stuff like Colbur to soak a hit and burn them, or run CM Resttalk to set up on mons like Yanma or Tangela. Finally, not a single mon listed on the VR can OHKO it without set up or an otherwise undesirable set like Specs Gastly.
Here are some examples of how insanely bulky this thing is:
252+ SpA Yanma Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 106-126 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Pidgeot Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 127-151 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 122-146 (42.9 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Dusclops: 102-120 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Dusclops: 82-97 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 224-266 (78.8 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 198-234 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Shoutout to SBPC for explaining to me the criteria for what makes something unhealthy.
Alright, to build off of what SBPC said, I'm gonna put out a hot take:
Dusclops is unhealthy for DPP ZU and should be suspect tested.
This thing can soak hits for days from most of the tier, and that's just considering standard sets. Mons that would be otherwise really good like Yanma just struggle to break A- because of this monster blocking their path. On top of this, even if you're running offense, you can run it to counter Persian, an otherwise huge threat to offense, simply because it's so splashable. It can also check mons such as Banded Granbull or Banded mightyena with stuff like Colbur to soak a hit and burn them, or run CM Resttalk to set up on mons like Yanma or Tangela. Finally, not a single mon listed on the VR can OHKO it without set up or an otherwise undesirable set like Specs Gastly.
Here are some examples of how insanely bulky this thing is:
252+ SpA Yanma Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 106-126 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Pidgeot Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 127-151 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 122-146 (42.9 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Dusclops: 102-120 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Dusclops: 82-97 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 224-266 (78.8 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 198-234 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Shoutout to SBPC for explaining to me the criteria for what makes something unhealthy.
I absolutely disagree with this and I will explain why.
Dusclops is undeniably a great Pokemon in the tier, and arguably the best Pokemon in the tier. However, it is not broken by any means. The problem is when it comes the discrepancy between Dusclops' ability to blanket check so much in the teambuilder, versus in play. It's no where near as hard to overwhelm Dusclops as you suggest. Yes, it is so good because of its Ghost-typing causing it to be very anti-meta in a metagame full of physically biased normal types. But "not a single mon listed on the VR can OHKO it without setup or undeseirable set" is a terrible argument because Dusclops is naturally a defensive Pokemon and it probably shouldn't be OHKO'd by very much, and this is offset by its extreme passiveness.
Encore, Sub, Taunt, stallbreaking techniques, setup, and overall strong attacks can break through Dusclops because of its lack of reliable recovery and reliance on Leftovers to gain passive recovery, and Colbur is not a very viable set. I don't know why you are expecting so much out of Yanma, a Pokemon that was once unranked. Your calculations are not "stupid" at all - I don't know why you expect a physical normal-type to break through it (when the CB Pidgeot set actually 2hkos after a bit of chip like a spike or rocks?), weak non-stab moves like Yanma Shadow Ball to break through (Yanma's niche is speed boost cleaning, not breaking), or non-STAB physical Dark-type attacks to 2HKO through Colbur Berry, or a low-ranked first evolution Pokemon like Houndour to OHKO it. It's not like Dusclops can even do anything back to these Pokemon with the except of the Normal-types and Yanma.
Yes, Dusclops is splashable, but to say its putting meaningful pressure on anything resmbling balance is incorrect, and the tier currently has enough wallbreakers on offense to punish it. The free turns given by Dusclops when its forced to rest are ridiculously common, and it can't even reliably wall many of the Pokemon in the tier that aren't Normal-type. Because it is both surmountable, and generally does not really require a respective archetype to go out of its way to check, I don't think its suspect worthy. I actually think its healthy as it keeps many of the oppressive normal-types in check. I think you need to reanalyze the metagame and look over your teams and see why you may be struggling with Dusclops, and I'm sure many people would be willing to help you out with this here, PS!, or in the discord! Thanks for your contribution to the metagame as well.
I'm going to add onto Durza's post here and mention a couple of specific ways to check and counter Dusclops.
These physical threats can both come onto dusclops rather cleanly and check it, due to being immune to burns after their orbs activate, even more so as they can use clops as setup fodder to boost up and sweep teams.
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 228-270 (80.2 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 186-218 (65.4 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This one is more self explained. Taunting Dusclops effectively shuts down it's sets. Banette especially vs Rest Talk, as it is immune to Seismic Toss.
Anyways, these are just a few examples for ways to effectively handle Dusclops. If you're having trouble handling Dusclops and bulkier teams based around it, feel free to use the sample sets of the mons listed in my post.
We've decided to release the new tier list for BW ZU. The meta is completely fresh so we have no resources for it yet, so thats why we're asking for your help! Get some test games, try out new teams, and post your findings on the metagame here!
As I'm talking about it on Discord, I have some small questions. As is always the case in the creation of an old lower tier, we rely on the viability rankings of the upper tier to create the banlist (and therefore the tierlist). The limit isn't always the same: it can go from the B rank to the C+ rank. But here, I don't understand this limit well, since there are banished and authorized pokemons within the same rank. In an attempt to explain, I analyzed the list.
If it's indeed the official banlist, here are the changes to make (as well as the remarks):
•
Leafeon,
Arbok and
Pelipper are B+ rank, they aren't allowed in ZU;
•
Abra,
Vanilluxe,
Flareon,
Sneasel,
Hypno,
Kingler,
Luxray,
Marowak,
Emolga,
Munchlax,
Raichu and
Simisear are B rank, they aren't allowed in ZU;
•
Lapras and
Camerupt have recently dropped from NU (with Gigalith) because you are now based on the usages of September 2013. But both are absent BW PU VRs: so we can't comment on their presence in ZU. It's likely that they are potentially above rank B- (hence forbidden). Strangely, they aren't in the same situation: Lapras is present in the ZU's tierlist, not Camerupt;
•
Lairon isn't present in the ZU tierlist, but it's also absent from the PU VRs: everything depends where it's placed;
•
Banette and
Dwebble aren't present in the ZU tierlist but I guess they are allowed.
However, it's absolutely possible that I'm wrong analysis and in fact the tierlist was created totally differently (in this case, you willn't fail then to correct me). Akir maybe this post can interest you.
As I'm talking about it on Discord, I have some small questions. As is always the case in the creation of an old lower tier, we rely on the viability rankings of the upper tier to create the banlist (and therefore the tierlist). The limit isn't always the same: it can go from the B rank to the C+ rank. But here, I don't understand this limit well, since there are banished and authorized pokemons within the same rank. In an attempt to explain, I analyzed the list.
It is because we did not directly use the VR for deciding the mons list. That system works for Gens 1-3, where that is the standard, but for 4+ it was decided that trying to keep the organic nature of usage would be better if possible. Here is how we actually figured it out:
1. Find usage via tournaments. The PUPL usage was used here.
2. Find usage via ladder. There were several Ladder Spotlights that included Gen5 PU, and those were used.
3. Contrast the 2 lists. Both of the ways to find usage have their own unique flaws, but they are used to double check the work. Any mons that fall under the cutoff for BOTH lists is declared to be solidly in the tier below. As for the remaining outliers...
4. Triple check the unique outliers with representatives from the tier above. The outliers need a more nuanced hand to figure out who goes where. The representatives vote on the outliers to determine their fate, and some will rise/fall depending.
So this system attempts to be as accurate as possible, however due to BW PU usage being unavailable during the BW era, this tier is strictly speculation and should be taken as such.
I also appreciate you finding that Camerupt post again, I've been meaning to delete it. Camerupt is NU.
The way I see this list working is we can remove Pokemon that aren't relevant to the metagame. All you gotta do is just give me some suggestions via discord or the PS ZU Room and we can discuss. This should narrow down the list of actually viable mons quite a bit. I've already taken the liberty of doing this with help by SBPC. We can use this post as a reference until an Actual VR is put together.
So, as of writing this post, BW ZU has been released for somewhat short of a month. As the meta has been played essentially blind with just a tier list to go off of, we've reached a point where we can consider a meta to be formed within the tier.
The Meta:
Currently, some of the best playstyles are more centered towards offensive teams, including Sun, Hyper Offense, and VoltTurn teams. Sun is an especially strong team style, being able to rip apart any team without an answer to it, with Heat Rock giving it 8 turns, and setters like Onix or Illumise, who can almost guarantee the weathers go up, it can quickly become problematic for the unprepared player. Outside of the eyes of weather, other offensive styles still flourish, with plenty of powerful setup sweepers and choiced breakers to play around with like Arbok, Kingler, Emolga, and Simisear to name a few of the categories. But even in an offensive meta, defensive teams can still find a home within the fray, although your building with the style must be very calculated due to the amount of offensive pressure in the tier, with some staples of the style being Clefairy, Foongus, Sandshrew, Specially defensive Beedrill, and Frillish. This creates an offensively leaned meta that is balanced, and from it rises what appear to be it's key threats, mostly talked about via Discord conversations.
Key Threats:
Regigigas: An absolute pinnacle of destruction within the tier, this sleeping giant finds it rather easy to get past its slow start in the hands of a better player, and is considered to be one of the tier's mandatory mons to prepare for, regardless of style.
Simisear: Arguably the most splashable mon in the tier, due to it's set versatility, packing Choice Scarf, Life Orb, SubSalac, and other items of user's selection to easily fit into any team with its mighty STAB and coverage options.
Sun: With an excellent array of powerful abusers, such as Leafeon, Weepinbell, and the more awkward Solar Power Charmeleon, this playstyle should be prepped for at any level of play. Good examples to handle it are defensive Lampent, offensive answers like Simisear of your own, or even running the niche rain playstyle as a response.
Some Teams:
Of course, you can't play pokemon without teams, and with my own teams, as well as some given to me to post with permission, you'll find plenty of good building examples to take from in this section.
A more self explanatory offensive team that makes good use of some of the breakers in the tier. Sandshrew and Kecleon make for an excellent hazard core to support the team as well.
This team focuses around using one of my favorite breakers in the tier, Octillery. With its excellent choice specs boosted special attack and amazing coverage, this monster finds itself terribly hard to switch into. Raticate uses its breaking power as well to boost up against stall teams and cause issues for offense teams. Baltoy compresses hazard roles, with Vullaby to help momentum as well as sit on enemy physical attackers. Shelgon
helps round out this team by being able to set up and smash and check the mighty simisear, with Lampent being a guaranteed switch in.
Another powerful breaker team featuring Exploud, but now it includes the mighty Dragonair as an immensely powerful setup sweeper. The team mostly explains itself, with Boldore and Staryu forming your hazard core.
The team is as simple as it gets, get your rain up and start punching holes in the enemy. Lapras can be changed for Seadra, as it is faster and hits harder, but the team on its own functions well.
Just some standard sun offense to give people a grasp of the playstyle. Very similar to rain, suicide Onix makes for an outstanding lead and afterward just start breaking teams down.
Pinktidal's Sun Offense - Pinktidal
Another standard sun team, just as straightforward as the other, get your weather up and start putting the enemy into the ground.
"Let your god rise from his grave as when paralysis is spread, Regigigas will both figuratively and literally confuse everyone as to what he's doing on the field, but this confusion will not be for long, as after 5 turns, God awakens, and Regigigas unleashes his power amongst the enemy team, devastating them with his might."
Just a fun offense team to use, cripple up opponents then let regi come in and start ripping holes in whatever remains.
This balance team functions around the usage of bulky Eelektrik and it's partner Sandshrew. The defensive core with Eel serving as a pivot allows for Simisear and Granbull to receive relatively easy entry for smashing apart some teams, while Togetic makes for a disgustingly strong WinCon.
This FWG is fairly easy to understand. Foongus has regen and spore to spread status as well as maintain its longevity. Heatmor comes equip with Flash Fire as its ability so it is able to support Foongus. Staryu removes hazards and spreads Status via T-wave which allows Heatmor an easier time when attacking due to its poor Speed stat. Choice Banded Fearow is able to fire off Powerful STAB attacks. In addition, Fearow acts as a great offensive Pivot. Choice Scarf Krok is able to Remove Psychic types that threaten Foongus and its able to function as a late game cleaner thanks to moxie. Finally, Hippo is able to set rocks and tank attacks that Foongus and Staryu can't.
(Thanks BP for making this description)
Tacked On Balance - Tack
A more generic balance with a solid VoltTurn, and toxic spikes to mess with the opposing team, with Staryu as a reliable spinner to help keep hazards from being obnoxious.
This stall build revolves around the usage of Corsola and Foongus regen pivoting around the opponent, with Sandshrew cleanly removing hazards, and Flareon + Lickitung to pass around wishes and keep the team healthy. Lopunny is the team's mandatory Regigigas check as well, with sandshrew being an alternative check due to its spread.
A more standardized stall build featuring a emolga as a fat source of momentum for the team to use, Clefairy is able to soak status and provide rocks while Sandshrew removes the opponents hazards. Beedrill sets Toxic Spikes, which are extremely annoying for offensive teams to deal with, while Frillish spinblocks and cripples attackers with burn. Finally, Chimecho plays cleric for the team, keeping it healthy and unstatused.
Viability Rankings Predictions:
Every tier that's developed has a list of all the viable pokemon sorted by ranks, now, at the time of this post, we don't have one, but a relevancy based tier list created by Broken Phobias and myself. These are my predictions on the future presence of a viability rankings.
Note: this is only the S ranks down to the A- ranks, and the pokemon are not sorted within tiers.
S Rank
Simisear
Regigigas
A Ranks:
A+:
Arbok
Emolga
Raticate
Leafeon
Togetic
A
Lopunny
Kecleon
Kingler
Dragonair
Marowak
A-
Sandshrew
Boldore
Gastly
Vullaby
Octillery
Raichu
Explaining The Ranks And Placements:
S Rank:
The S rank is reserved for dominant meta threats that are insanely present in the metagame, and must absolutely be prepared for, for these threats, please check the Key Threats section.
A Ranks:
This rank is here for mons that are incredibly present, and are capable of splashing onto teams easily while being incredibly useful with little to no reprecussions.
Arbok - Incredibly good setup threat with Coil, great coverage, hard to revenge kill due to Sucker Punch
Emolga - A powerful breaker that doesn't hold back at all, with access to flying gem acrobatics it can almost always confirm a kill, it has an amazing speed tier, and it can fit defensive roles with its stellar kit.
Raticate - Another powerful setup sweeper with access to sucker punch, this one however suffers a slight timer due to having to status itself for its potenial power, but it shouldn't be taken lightly at all.
Leafeon - This eeveelution has the ability to take center stage within the sun teams as well as be a capable threat outside of them due to its execellent speed tier.
Togetic - An incredibly fat mon with eviolite, being able to soak up blow after blow and heal it away with reliable recovery, great mon with access to nifty utility moves and decent STAB in Tri Attack, with good coverage options like Shadow Ball and Heat Wave
Lopunny - An incredibly annoying mon to face with its access to Klutz Switcheroo, letting it cripple enemy threats and annoy stall teams, especially eviolite users. Has a nice STAB in return as well.
Kecleon - Amazing specially defensive tank and stealth rock setter. Color Change can be abused but it can also annoy mons like Simisear with the type changing.
Kingler - Setup Sweeper with the potential to steamroll entire teams if you give it time to set up, also runs a choice scarf set.
Dragonair - Dragon Dance using mon that devastates any unprepared team with Outrage + Espeed.
Marowak - Possibly one of the most disgusting breakers in the tier thanks to thick club, near impossible to switch in on, very easy to revenge.
Sandshrew - The tier's most reliable spinner and one of the better physically defensive tanks of the tier. Goatshrew does goat things.
Boldore - A very reliable rocker as well as great mixed wall, and it has the added benefit of threatening substitute users with Rock Blast.
Gastly - Hard counters Regigigas (Return + EQ), reliable special attacker otherwise
Vullaby - Amazing physically defense wall, and it can fight against some of the setup threats by hitting foul play to punish their setup.
Octillery - Choice Specs user that's stupidly hard to switch into, it can blast through teams that aren't ready to handle it, but it can be revenged rather easily.
Raichu - Pretty powerful special attacking threat with a good speed tier, suffers due to being outsped by simisear, but it can deal great damage and pivot around.
Note: These are my opinions and predictions, and should definitely not be taken as an official ranking. (Although it'd be neat if i predicted right)
Acknowledgements:
Thanks to Broken Phobias, Tack, and Pinktidal for allowing me to share their teams in this post.
Hope you enjoyed reading, play BW ZU!
Cofagrigus
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Grimer-Alola
Hippopotas
Palpitoad
Solrock
Zweilous
Electabuzz
Staryu
Kingler
Pelipper
Wormadam-S
Exploud
Hypno
Gloom
Budew
Cranidos
Drilbur
Koffing
Phione
Pineco
Porygon
Shelmet
Sudowoodo
Clamperl
Prinplup
Pupitar
Lickitung
Mankey
Minun
Quilava
Yanma
Aipom
Ponyta
Tropius
Anorith
Castform
Doduo
Flaaffy
Drowzee
Cubone
Delcatty
Elekid
Lileep
Rhyhorn:
Smoochum
Delibird
Horsea
Lombre
Sunflora
Voltorb
Croconaw
Magby
Wailmer
Exeggcute
Farfetch'd
Shuppet
Spoink
Arcanine
Scyther
