Zetsubou Billy

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Zetsubou Billy

Billy In Despair
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Hello, Smogon! This team is really different from what I usually play and it was made alot differently than my other teams usually are made, but it has been surprisingly successful and it's alot of fun to play with. If you know me you know I like to play semi-stall or stall but this team is all out offense. When rating, don't hesitate to change as much as you feel is necessary; hell, re-build the team if you have to! The reason I say this is because the team in my last RMT was successful for me as it was, so I decided to keep a copy of the original and make different variations of the team based on what people suggested. This team has been successful for me in its original version so I'm keeping a copy of it since I know it can do well, but I would very much like to hear what you have to say so it can be improved and I can make a new version of it with your suggestions implemented.

This team is basically a combination of offensive double teams - double water and double fire! This way alot of pressure is put on my opponent and it's hard for them to counter essentially the same thing twice.

If we go by the 1-2, 3-5 and 6 method of teams, this one would look like:
1 - 2 (lead synergy): Starmie | Metagross
3 - 5 (the core): Breloom | Kingdra | Heatran
6 (the sweeper): Infernape


Now, with that out of the way, I present Zetsubou Billy!

In-Depth

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Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin


Christ, Starmie is an incredible lead. It will rock your shit, to put it mildly. 95% of the time I'm at an advantage right off the bat thanks to its great power and unresisted coverage, and very rarely is Stealth Rock set up in my face, which always helps when using an offensive team that likes to switch. The few leads Starmie cannot handle are taken on nicely by Metagross. Lead matchups thingies are fun, so let's get to them!

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Hydro Pump to the Sash as it sets up rocks. Take a Rock Slide and Rapid Spin for the kill, leaving them without Stealth Rock.

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The new fad is Choice Banded U-turns, but I still run into the old Focus Sashers fairly often. Hope I win the initial speed tie in case they are Choice Banded so I can smash their face into the dirt with Hydro Pump, but if it's standard Sash who sets up rocks turn 1, I really want the speed tie turn 2 so I can Spin and kill them before they Explode. It's not really a matter of life or death if I don't win it though, rocks don't really bother my team that much, it's just really convenient being able to play without my opponent having them.

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Oof. Hope to win speed tie so I can get the KO with Thunderbolt, but if I lose it, I'll go to PasshoTran to get a funny surprise kill (they always stay in trying to Hydro Pump, and I don't want to reveal Kingdra, my late-game sweeper, on turn 2).

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Ice Beam - only a complete retard would keep Skarm in and alot of the time people try to get something like Shaymin or Celebi in on a Thunderbolt.

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Switch to Heatran. Why? Well, Hydro Pump doesn't kill and Payback would really hurt Starmie, but the main reason is because when you see a Forretress, they generally have a Blissey, which is their immediate switchin to Starmie, and they sure as hell will not switch it out from a Heatran, allowing me to get a nice Magma Storm+Taunt+Explosion combo off on it, therefore letting Starmie go crazy on the rest of the team.

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See Forretress, minus the part about Hydro Pump not killing and Payback really hurting.

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People still use this piece of shit? Ok. Hydro Pump as they lay rocks and then Spin on the switch to Bliss or a grass type.

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Ice Beam the obvious switch to Roserade/Celebi/Shaymin/sometimes even Flygon!

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Hydro Pump to the Sash as it lays rocks, Rapid Spin to kill it off without them.

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Switch to Metagross on Payback. Meteor Mash, threatening a 2HKO, take DynamicPunch's confusion with Lum Berry, then lay rocks on their switch to Heatran. If they stay in like an idiot and D-Punch again to kill me, that's fine, Metagross at below half health wouldn't be of much use anyway, so I go to Starmie and finish with Hydro Pump (No Guard prevents it from missing).

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Thunderbolt their bulky water switchin that expected an Ice Beam.

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They won't Sleep Powder me thanks to Natural Cure, so I get a safe switch into Metagross on the Leaf Storm, proceeding to beat it with a combination of Lum Berry+Meteor Mash+Bullet Punch.

Outside of being an incredibly efficient anti-lead, Starmie is a great mid-game offensive threat with its fantastic power and type coverage. Rapid Spin is incredibly useful, seeing as I like to double switch around, not having Stealth Rock inhibit me is nothing but good. With good prediction I can often take out full teams with this thing alone. Starmie serves as my initial Infernape check since usually once it's done its thing in the lead slot it's too weak to really be of much use later, especially without Recover, so it's usually just fodder so I can safely send in Kingdra. However, if I don't die to whatever attack I come in on, I can fire off Hydro Pumps and just fuck shit up, maybe get a Rapid Spin off if there are rocks up. I also like coming in on opposing Heatran going for SR that Metagross lures in while setting up my rocks, being able to spin them right back off the field, since if they are running semi-stall with Rotom-A, would you really risk a Hydro Pump to the face to save just your Stealth Rock?

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Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion


Metagross is here for the obligatory Stealth Rock, the ability to defeat the few leads Starmie has trouble with, some key resistances, and the ability to check some big threats.

You may be wondering why I don't have Earthquake. Well, think about it - EQ is used for hitting Pokemon like Heatran, Infernape, opposing Metagross and Lucario. I have Starmie, Kingdra, and a (max speed) Ape to deal with Tran and opposing Ape. Metagross has practically no room to set up Agilities, not to mention once Loom gets a Seed on him I can beat it by switching and abusing resistances. Lucario literally has no room to set up (would you really Swords Dance in Metagross's face?) unless Ape somehow gets locked on U-turn, but I still have CB Mach Punch to take it out, plus Gross dies to +2 Close Combat anyways, so it's useless.

Gross helps patch up weaknesses to Tyranitar, opposing ChestoRest Kingdra (I believe a +2 Waterfall fails to 2HKO), and is usually the thing I send out to take fearsome Draco Meteors from the likes of MixNite. I also really appreciate its steel typing because it is really my only way of dealing with a boosted Dragon Dance Dragonite - force it into Outrage, send in Metagross and take it out with Meteor Mash+Bullet Punch. It's far from an ideal check though, and I usually end up losing two mons to a +1 Dnite; luckily it doesn't get much room to set up besides Infernape's choice-locked attacks. Comments on how to fix this weakness would really be appreciated, as Dragonite is currently the biggest threat to my team!

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Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch


Breloom is the first part of my FWG core, but it was really thrown in there because it countered Tyranitar to hell and back and my only check to it at the time was Infernape, not because I think that FWG is the greatest OU core of all time and it is necessary on all teams.

It also makes for a great Swampert switch-in, not even being KO'd by Ice Beam if I'm near full health. By crippling Pert with Spore, I essentially put a huge counter to both of my end-game sweepers out of the match. I usually don't lead with Spore though, I like to get a nice Leech Seed off as my opponent switches to something like ResTalk Gyarados. I found the spread on the analysis ineffective so I improvised and just maxed defense, throwing the remaining EVs into attack, and keeping 236 HP for a max Poison Heal number. Leech Seed recovery is really sweet, increasing the longevity of my whole team by a surprising amount. Not to mention I have great bait for the biggest HP sources ever, Blissey and Snorlax, in Starmie. I also get a free setup with this guy when people try to send in Scarf Tyranitar in on Starmie's Ice Beam/Thunderbolt to Pursuit it, only to find themselves staring into the face of a Breloom that just double switched in. SubSeed Loom is really quite an underrated threat nowadays, and you'd be surprised at the amount of teams it just outright beats.

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Heatran @ Passho Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Magma Storm
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Taunt
- Explosion


Heatran really supports this team like no other Pokemon could. Its unique trapping set helps me defeat stall and open up holes in the opposing team that my two late-game sweepers can capitalize on to win me the game.

I have always liked the combination of Heatran and Infernape. Heatran's bulk allows it to switch in and attack with viciously powerful STAB Fire Blasts, weakening the opponent's bulky water so that they can't come in and counter Infernape late-game. The same principle applies here, except instead of just weakening the bulky waters, Heatran practically has a guaranteed kill on them thanks to the trapping ability of Magma Storm. Stall is put on smash once I trap and kill Gyarados with HP Electric, allowing Kingdra and Ape to run wild. If I trap Bliss, Taunt to stop Protect, and Explode to kill, Starmie will fuck them up bad. As for offensive teams, their best bet against Ape is usually a Starmie of their own, which is usually also their best Heatran switch. Trap them on the switch, live a Hydro Pump thanks to the Passho Berry, and destroy them with HP Electric. Passho also helps beat Kingdra, so whether it tries to set up Dragon Dances or just kill me straight away it's going down to Explosion; if that doesn't kill, Ape's CB Mach Punch finishes the job. HeaTrap is really a great set that should see more action, although Magma Storm has gay accuracy, j/s.

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Kingdra @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 HP / 156 Atk / 40 SDef / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rest


Great set. Even though it's not exactly the surprise rapist it once was, many teams are still really weak to it and it's really easy to get a couple Dragon Dances. I like to say that Life Orb Starmie and Offensive Suicune dominate the metagame. Well, Kingdra dominates them both! Starmie can't 2HKO me with a Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam / Thunderbolt. Suicune can't 2HKO me with a +1 Ice Beam. While they struggle to do significant damage to me, I Dragon Dance in their faces, then heal up and spam the beastliness that is a boosted Outrage, doing nasty damage even to Steel-types that resist it. The only Pokemon that resist my dual STABs are Empoleon and Shedinja. Empoleon can be revenged by CB Ape's Mach Punch, and Shedinja dies to rocks (plus, who the fuck uses it?).

Kingdra absolutely dominates Heatran, since Dragon Pulse is pretty much a thing of the past. Opposing FWG cores are put on smash thanks to their lack of damage output against this dude. If I get two DDs, it's pretty much gg, as their Scarf Flygon will be outsped and destroyed. If they switch in on the first Dance, they're definitely Outraging, so I can switch in Metagross, kill them off, and get my sweep off later. Since ChestoRest Kingdra has gotten more popular lately, I decided to drop 4 fairly useless Attack EVs and invest them into speed so if the game came down to Kingdra vs Kingdra I'd win. This dude is a huge threat today who is practically unstoppable with the right support.

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Infernape @ Choice Band
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Mach Punch
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz


Ape is here as my second late-game cleaner. He also acts as an effective mid-game scout and wallbreaker.

When I saw a Choice Band Infernape for the first time in Wilechase's RMT, I thought to myself "it would never work, limiting its ability to switch moves is really crippling for something as diverse as Ape and the extra power isn't worth it". Well, my curiosity got the better of me, so I tried it out and I was just flat out amazed. This thing is so powerful it's ridiculous. Starmie's ability to prevent rocks lets me go U-turn wild, absolutely thrashing any Starmie that wants to switch in. If I'm forced to go for Close Combat or Flare Blitz as they switch it in, Kingdra will be more than happy to come in and boost in its face. Late-game once I've scouted the team, I can form a plan to eliminate any flyers/psychics/ghosts and just sweep with the sheer power and coverage of Close Combat. This is by far my favorite Ape set, even though at first I thought it was utter crap.
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Conclusion
So this is the end of another RMT. A big thing I've considered is a Jolly Scarf Flygon, but I can't figure out where to fit it in, so if you guys could help me with that, that'd be great. Thanks for reading!
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Creds to Tomahawk9 for the threat list!

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Heatran:

Choice Scarf: Play around what move it's locked into. Starmie and Kingdra are my main options, although Ape's Mach Punch can help in a pinch.

Stealth Rock:If it's leading, Starmie rapes it. Starmie and Kingdra make good switch-ins, while Infernape can revenge kill it.

Substitute: At worst, I'll lose a mon to it, but with Starmie and Kingdra being my initial switches, I usually don't.

Choice Specs: This thing hits scary hard, but it's mere DD fodder for Kingdra. Ape revenge kills (Starmie doesn't because it's usually my first switch and it usually gets rocked by an Overheat).


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Scizor:

Choice Band: Heatran makes a solid switch. Infernape isn't too shabby at taking U-turns either. Both Pokemon can kill it easily. Starmie KOs it with Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock.

Swords Dance: Heatran owns it. Ape in a pinch, although a boosted Bullet Punch does hurt.

Choice Scarf: Breloom fodder thanks to its lack of power. Heatran and Ape take it on as well.


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Flygon:

Choice Scarf: Lock it into Outrage and kill it with Metagross. Breloom can take it on easily, although that's not my preferred option. Worst comes to worst I'll make a plan to put my opponent into a position where I get 2 DDs with Kingdra and will then outspeed it.

Mixed: Thankfully rare, it really messes me up. Starmie and Infernape revenge kill it nicely, Metagross can take a hit in a pinch.


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Gyarados:

Bulky Dragon Dance: Starmie, Metagross's Explosion. Heatran often surprise kills it with Magma Storm+HP Electric.

RestTalk: HeaTrap does work. Starmie in a pinch.

Offensive Dragon Dance:Starmie, Breloom.


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Rotom-H:

Choice Scarf: Heatran.

Defensive: Heatran. Kingdra actually sets up on it by DDing through the burn and then Resting at the last second to deliver a boosted Waterfall/Outrage.

RestTalk: See Defensive set.


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Rotom-W:

Choice Scarf: See Rotom-H.

Choice Specs:Breloom takes advantage of choice-locked Thunderbolts/Hydro Pumps. Kingdra sets up on Hydro Pump. Ape wrecks it with Flare Blitz. Starmie deals heavy damage with Hydro Pump. Heatran can take any one hit thanks to Passho and Magma Storm.

Defensive: See Rotom-H.

RestTalk: See Rotom-H.


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Rotom-C:

Defensive: See Rotom-H/W.

Choice Scarf: See Rotom-H/W.

Defensive Substitute: Never run into one, but Heatran is a good counter. Ape and Starmie can help out in a pinch.


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Infernape:

Special Mix: Starmie, as long as it doesn't come in on Grass Knot. Kingdra checks it as well. My own Ape can deal with it thanks to max speed.

Physical Mix: Starmie, although U-turn hurts. Kingdra and Ape also check it.

Nasty Plot: Starmie, Infernape revenge kills.

Swords Dance: Starmie, Infernape revenge kills.


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Starmie:

Rapid Spin: Kingdra all day. Ape lures it in and smashes it with U-turn. Since my Starmie is max speed it can outrun and deliver a swift OHKO with Thunderbolt. Breloom takes it on as well thanks to its lack of Ice Beam.

Life Orb: Kingdra. Ape destroys it with a CB U-turn on the switch.


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Gengar:

SubSplit: Metagross is my initial switch to prevent it from Subbing. Starmie outruns, Kingdra can Dance in its face once and kill with Waterfall.

Life Orb: See SubSplit set.

Substitute + 3 Attacks: See SubSplit set.


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Tyranitar:

Choice Scarf: Breloom all day. Ape abuses its choice-locked moves with U-turn and can kill it with Mach Punch. Metagross takes it on well too.

Dragon Dance: Breloom can take even a boosted Fire/Ice Punch. Ape revenge kills with Mach Punch.

Choice Band: Breloom. Ape forces it out and can spam U-turn. Starmie doesn't OHKO but it deals heavy damage with Hydro Pump. Metagross avoids being OHKO'd by any move and can Meteor Mash it.


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Metagross:

Agility: Very problematic and the reason I am considering Jolly ScarfGon over someone on the team. Luckily it can't really set up anywhere. I have to get a Leech Seed on it with Breloom and then switch around, abusing resistances to rack up LS+LO recoil until it gets low enough to where Ape can kill it.

Lead: Starmie Hydro Pumps on the SR and then spins the rocks away as it does whatever.


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Dragonite:

Dragon Dance: The single biggest threat to my team. I have to force it into Outrage and kill it with Metagross, otherwise it's pretty much gg.

Mixed: Also a problem, though not to the extent that the DDer is. Starmie revenges with Ice Beam. It often tries to switch into Ape but it gets 2HKO'd by Close Combat / Flare Blitz after Stealth Rock.

Attacking Lead: Starmie rapes it with Ice Beam.

Choice Band: Really hurts. Again, Ape can 2HKO it on the switch after SR, Starmie revenges. Breloom gets a free Sub if I lure it into EQing.


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Breloom:

SubPunch: Doesn't get much room to set up, thankfully. Metagross takes it thanks to Lum. Starmie revenges, Kingdra can actually set up a Dance against it thanks to Chesto, Heatran wrecks it, Ape wrecks it.

SubSeed: Same as SubPunch but a bit more annoying.


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Jirachi:

Wish + Calm Mind: Heatran. Ape revenge kills.

Choice Scarf: Heatran. Ape. Breloom (Fire/Ice Punch does absolute jack shit).

SubCM: Heatran. Ape revenge kills.

Choice Scarf Lead: U-turn doesn't kill and that's the best move it can use, so Ice Beam as Celebi is a common partner and likes to switch in on the assumed Hydro Pump.

Offensive Calm Mind: Heatran. If it has HP Ground, Ape revenge kills.

Substitute + Thunder Wave: Heatran walls it for days. Ape revenge kills.


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Swampert:

Tank: Breloom. Starmie 2HKOs it, Ape 2HKOs it with a bit of prior damage, Metagross (Heatran too in a pinch) can Explode to severely hinder its usefulness.

Curse: Breloom. It's really quite rare, I don't think I've ever run into it.


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Blissey:

Wish Support: Heatran lures it in and kills with Magma Storm+Taunt+Explosion. Ape wrecks it with Close Combat. A well-timed Explosion from Metagross kills it. It's also Breloom fodder.

Cleric: See Wish Support set.

2 Attacks: See Wish Support set.


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Azelf:

Lead: Starmie Hydro Pumps to the Sash if it has one and then I hope to win the speed tie so I can kill it while spinning away rocks. If it's Choice Banded I die to U-turn if I lose the speed tie, unfortunately, but I'll get switch advantage because they are forced to reveal something to me.

Physical Choice: Abuse the move it's locked into. Heatran takes it on nicely.

Colbur Berry Lead: Same approach as the standard lead, although I'm guaranteed the Rapid Spin because it doesn't run max speed and therefore can't force a speed tie. Heatran walls it.

Nasty Plot: Heatran. If it has HP Ground/Fighting I'm trouble and will have to resort to Life Orb stalling until Metagross can pick it off with Bullet Punch. I can also risk a speed tie with Starmie. It's a big threat but it's thankfully rare.


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Zapdos:

Physically Defensive: Heatran. Starmie can get a solid Ice Beam off, Metagross can Explode.

SubRoost: This thing is nasty. Heatran can Taunt it so it can't Sub, then trap it with Magma Storm and Explode. Ape deals heavy damage with Flare Blitz. Starmie can get a nice Ice Beam on it, Meta can Explode.

Special Attacker: Heatran can take a hit and Magma Storm, Starmie can kill with Ice Beam, Ape can kill it with Flare Blitz.


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Suicune:

Offensive Calm Mind: Kingdra sets up all over it. Ape or Heatran can revenge in a pinch.

CroCune: Kingdra sets up on it hard.


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Lucario:

Swords Dance: Checked by Ape's Mach Punch.

Agility: See SD set. Breloom can take a hit and Spore it.


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Machamp:

Attacking Lead: From Starmie to Meta on Payback, Meteor Mash for the 2HKO while Lum cures confusion.

Substitute + 3 Attacks: Meta beats it one-on-one. Starmie can do a number on it with Hydro Pump after it's weakened from Sub. Heatran and Ape can do the same.

RestTalk:Meta beats it one-on-one. Heatran can switch in and get off two Magma Storms while it's sleeping and has a low chance to get DynamicPunch.


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Skarmory:

Physically Defensive: Starmie, Heatran, Ape.

Specially Defensive: Starmie, Heatran, Ape.

Taunt: Starmie, Heatran, Ape.


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Vaporeon:

Wish Support: Kingdra sets up all over its ass. Heatran traps it. Ape 2HKOs with CB CC.

Baton Pass: Never see it. Tran can trap it, Starmie can Thunderbolt.


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Gliscor:

Britscor: Starmie, Kingdra. Ape can Flare Blitz if it's weak. Gross can take an EQ and Explode.

Lead: Starmie takes it on all day.

Swords Dance: Starmie, Kingdra. Ape revenges if necessary.


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Kingdra:

ChestoRest: My Kingdra will outspeed it if we're both without boost thanks to my 4 extra speed EVs. Metagross tanks even its boosted hits and Explodes.

Substitute + Dragon Dance: Metagross tanks it like a beast.

Rain Dance Mixed Attacker: Scary. I have to switch around and waste RD turns. Heatran can take one hit with Passho and Explode.


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Celebi:

Physically Defensive: Heatran. Ape.

Tinkerbell: Heatran. Ape.


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Shaymin:

Special Attacker: Ape revenges, Starmie hits it hard with Ice Beam. Kingdra in a pinch.

Leech Seed: Heatran, Ape. Starmie and Kingdra can help out.


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Forretress:

Specially Defensive: Heatran. Ape.

Physically Defensive: Heatran. Ape.


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Snorlax:

Curse: Breloom trolls it hard. Ape.

Choice Band: Breloom still trolls it hard. Ape.

RestTalk: Breloom is still trolling it hard. Ape.


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Roserade:

Toxic Spikes Lead: Meta on the Leaf Storm and beat it with Lum+Mash+BP.

Spikes: Heatran, Ape.


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Bronzong:

Tank: Tran, Ape, Loom.

Dual Screen: Loom fodder. Tran, Ape.

Trick: Never see them, but after it's Tricked it's just Breloom fodder.

Offensive Trick Room: Loom tanks it.


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Aerodactyl:

Lead: HPump to the Sash and then spin away rocks as you kill it.

Life Orb: Kingdra takes a hit, Breloom Focus Punches it on the Taunt or Roost, Meta can take a hit (doesn't even have to if it's in Bullet Punch range).


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Jolteon:

Choice Specs: Ow. Loom can take it if it's locked into Tbolt. Tran takes it if it's locked on Shadow Ball.

Charge Beam: Kingdra takes a hit and kills it. Ape revenges it with Mach Punch if it's weak.

Life Orb: See Charge Beam set.


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Togekiss:

Paraflinch: This thing is a (BAN ME PLEASE). Heatran traps it, Kingdra can set up Dances and Rest on it, Ape can deal very heavy damage with Close Combat. I usually Explode on it with Metagross.

Defensive Nasty Plot: See Paraflinch set.

Choice Scarf: Easy to abuse what it's locked into. If it Tricks away the Scarf it's a less bulky paraflincher.


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Hippowdon:

Physically Defensive: Starmie. Breloom fodder.

Specially Defensive:Same as physically defensive.


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Magnezone:

Choice Scarf: Easy to abuse what moves it's locked into, although it is annoying when it traps Metagross, I can Explode and hurt it badly, following up by either going to Breloom to Sub (if it Tbolted) or Heatran to trap something (if it HP Fired).

Substitute: It usually traps Metagross, so Explosion prevents it from getting a Sub and then it's easily revenged.

Choice Specs: More powerful Scarf set but it's easier to revenge with Ape. Never seen one though.
 
I really like the offensive synergy you have going for this team, especially with the Heatrap + Infernape. Offensively, you have no issues, but defensively, you are weak to quite a few things. As you have mentioned, DDnite can utterly wreck your team. If it is Jolly + Lo it can set up easily on Breloom, Infernape, and Heatran. Mixnite can OHKO everything as well. Gyarados isn't as much because they will always try to set up on Tran, and you know what happens then...

I think the most changeable poke is Metagross. You can throw a Scarf Jirachi on the same spot, and gain the ability to check lots of stuff and still get SR up. It's a solid switch to Dnite if you run ice punch, and it can also check Tyranitar with iron head. I haven't tested SR scarf Jirachi outside of the lead spot, so trying it as a lead could work too, although Starmie is a sweet lead. The set would be the standard scarfer with Iron Head / Ice Punch / (Fire Punch / Thunderpunch) / Stealth Rock. It also provides a nice SD luke and Scizor check as well with fire punch, Starmie and Gyarados with thunderpunch.
 
I really like the offensive synergy you have going for this team, especially with the Heatrap + Infernape. Offensively, you have no issues, but defensively, you are weak to quite a few things. As you have mentioned, DDnite can utterly wreck your team. If it is Jolly + Lo it can set up easily on Breloom, Infernape, and Heatran. Mixnite can OHKO everything as well. Gyarados isn't as much because they will always try to set up on Tran, and you know what happens then...

I think the most changeable poke is Metagross. You can throw a Scarf Jirachi on the same spot, and gain the ability to check lots of stuff and still get SR up. It's a solid switch to Dnite if you run ice punch, and it can also check Tyranitar with iron head. I haven't tested SR scarf Jirachi outside of the lead spot, so trying it as a lead could work too, although Starmie is a sweet lead. The set would be the standard scarfer with Iron Head / Ice Punch / (Fire Punch / Thunderpunch) / Stealth Rock. It also provides a nice SD luke and Scizor check as well with fire punch, Starmie and Gyarados with thunderpunch.

Scarf SR Jirachi seems like a legit option over Meta, I'll test it out. I'll probs use ThunderPunch over Fire Punch because I have Luke covered well enough with Ape and I could use some extra Gyara coverage. Thanks for the rate!
 
You have a nice team here. From what I can see Zapdos can give you some trouble. As you stated in your threat list, Sub Roost Zapdos gives you some problems as once it gets into that infamous Sub Roost cycle, a lot of your Pokemon will be KO'd. From the looks of it however; I believe that other forms of Zapdos are worse. Life Orb KOs almost everyone of your Pokemon as you have a single electric resist, which is weak to Heat Wave. From my experience Breloom is a decent check to Sub Roost Zapdos, but I would suggest that you try that spread of 252 HP | 124 Atk | 132 Spe. This allows you to check Sub Roost Zapdos pretty decently with providing a little bit more offense to your Breloom. Not to mention that 132 Spe with an Adamant nature outruns minimum speed rotom, which is nice since defensive rotom is a somewhat decent check to Breloom. As for Life Orb Zapdos, there isn't really much to do without messing with your team's synergy. Although I think I may have a small suggestion, which is to try out Trick + Iron Ball Metagross. First of all Iron Ball Metagross allows you to lure in Pokemon like Skarmory, Rotom, and Zapdos and trick them an Iron Ball, and then KOing with an Earthquake. Not only will this help you check Zapdos to an extent, but it lures in counters for Kingdra to sweep. With pokemon like Skarmory crippled and Infernape spamming boosted Close Combats and Flare Blitz, Kingdra can clean up the bits and pieces later in the game quite easily.

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Adamant 236 HP | 252 Atk | 20 Spe Clear Body
Meteor Mash | Trick | Stealth Rocks | Earthquake

Finally, I would suggest that you try and get a better check for Gyarados. Although Heatran may seem reliable in a sense, a rare Life Orb'd Gyarados with Earthquake can give you some major trouble. If I were you, I'd just run a Scarf Rotom over Heatran. Although this may seem like a strange change as you get rid of your F/W/G core, you have CM Wish Jirachi and friends checked easily with your other team members, so I think Heatran is a replaceable member. With Metagross luring in Skarmory and Rotom and Starmie being able to spin, Kingdra and Infernape should be able to clean up late game versus stall anyways. Also, Scarf Rotom gives you a little bit of extra insurance versus Zapdos, which is always nice.

That's about all I have to say, this is a very solid team good luck with it.
 
You have a nice team here. From what I can see Zapdos can give you some trouble. As you stated in your threat list, Sub Roost Zapdos gives you some problems as once it gets into that infamous Sub Roost cycle, a lot of your Pokemon will be KO'd. From the looks of it however; I believe that other forms of Zapdos are worse. Life Orb KOs almost everyone of your Pokemon as you have a single electric resist, which is weak to Heat Wave. From my experience Breloom is a decent check to Sub Roost Zapdos, but I would suggest that you try that spread of 252 HP | 124 Atk | 132 Spe. This allows you to check Sub Roost Zapdos pretty decently with providing a little bit more offense to your Breloom. Not to mention that 132 Spe with an Adamant nature outruns minimum speed rotom, which is nice since defensive rotom is a somewhat decent check to Breloom. As for Life Orb Zapdos, there isn't really much to do without messing with your team's synergy. Although I think I may have a small suggestion, which is to try out Trick + Iron Ball Metagross. First of all Iron Ball Metagross allows you to lure in Pokemon like Skarmory, Rotom, and Zapdos and trick them an Iron Ball, and then KOing with an Earthquake. Not only will this help you check Zapdos to an extent, but it lures in counters for Kingdra to sweep. With pokemon like Skarmory crippled and Infernape spamming boosted Close Combats and Flare Blitz, Kingdra can clean up the bits and pieces later in the game quite easily.

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Adamant 236 HP | 252 Atk | 20 Spe Clear Body
Meteor Mash | Trick | Stealth Rocks | Earthquake

Finally, I would suggest that you try and get a better check for Gyarados. Although Heatran may seem reliable in a sense, a rare Life Orb'd Gyarados with Earthquake can give you some major trouble. If I were you, I'd just run a Scarf Rotom over Heatran. Although this may seem like a strange change as you get rid of your F/W/G core, you have CM Wish Jirachi and friends checked easily with your other team members, so I think Heatran is a replaceable member. With Metagross luring in Skarmory and Rotom and Starmie being able to spin, Kingdra and Infernape should be able to clean up late game versus stall anyways. Also, Scarf Rotom gives you a little bit of extra insurance versus Zapdos, which is always nice.

That's about all I have to say, this is a very solid team good luck with it.

Zapdos is really problematic but I like the idea of Trick+Iron Ball Gross to fuck it up and help Kingdra out in general. The only thing about that is, I lose my way of beating lead Roserade, but I can always just Ice Beam with Starmie and at least prevent them from getting T-Spikes if they Leaf Storm; if they Sleep Powder, I'll just spin them away later. Losing HeaTrap isn't the best thing in the world but I definitely see how Scarf Rotom would work, especially with Metagross becoming my lure. Thanks for the rate!
 
VERY solid team here, as always bro. But I was thinking a Scarfed Flygon would do better instead of Banded Infernape, considering you have like 3 ground weaks and two dragons resists, both of which will probably end up sticking around throughout the match, but that's just me.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~U-turn
~Stone Edge

You can replace Stone Edge with Fire Blast or Fire Punch to hurt steels, but you have 3 things that could potentially hurt steels already, so I wouldn't to be honest.

Besides that, like I said before, VERY solid team and I hope you keep making more of them. (I also hope you get into Gen5, but that's just me :B.)
 
VERY solid team here, as always bro. But I was thinking a Scarfed Flygon would do better instead of Banded Infernape, considering you have like 3 ground weaks and two dragons resists, both of which will probably end up sticking around throughout the match, but that's just me.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~U-turn
~Stone Edge

You can replace Stone Edge with Fire Blast or Fire Punch to hurt steels, but you have 3 things that could potentially hurt steels already, so I wouldn't to be honest.

Besides that, like I said before, VERY solid team and I hope you keep making more of them. (I also hope you get into Gen5, but that's just me :B.)

My only nitpick would be to use Jolly over Adamant so I fix up my AgiliGross weakness but ScarfGon is definitely a good choice; I'd also use ThunderPunch to check Gyara. Otherwise it seems like a great option, thanks for the rate!
 
With all the suggestions above I have nothing further, other than I love this team. I want to sex it. Anyway, it's awesome, I've always been a fan of CB ape, nailing starmie on the switch with u-turn is more satisfying killing a switchin abomasnow with pursuit on scizor, or something equally awesome.
 
With all the suggestions above I have nothing further, other than I love this team. I want to sex it. Anyway, it's awesome, I've always been a fan of CB ape, nailing starmie on the switch with u-turn is more satisfying killing a switchin abomasnow with pursuit on scizor, or something equally awesome.

Haha, thanks.

To anyone else who might come across this; I've been considering Scarf Flygon > Ape and Suicune back over Kingdra. Thoughts on this?
 
:o
Hey BKC,

Nice team =)

But at a glance, it seems really Dragonite weak, and a little weak to Agility Metagross.
Maybe scarf Flygon can patch up those two weaknesses.

Although, replacing Infernape means that Lucario can give your team hella' trouble. Maybe consider scarfing Heatran to fix that weakness?

Gl with the team!
 
:o
Hey BKC,

Nice team =)

But at a glance, it seems really Dragonite weak, and a little weak to Agility Metagross.
Maybe scarf Flygon can patch up those two weaknesses.

Although, replacing Infernape means that Lucario can give your team hella' trouble. Maybe consider scarfing Heatran to fix that weakness?

Gl with the team!

Thanks for the rate. Luckily Lucario doesn't get many chances to set up, and if I keep Flygon healthy (aka keep rocks off the field, which is very possible with Starmie) I can live +2 ExtremeSpeed and revenge from it. Scarfing Heatran along with Flygon would make me really weak to stall, and I'm not a fan of Scarf Tran anyways.
 
Like what other raters have said, you have an amazing team here. There is no wall that can stop you, the problem is on the other side of the spectrum. Stuff like CM Raikou, it is hitting Kingdra for 84 % min after it sets up on Ape and if it wins the speed tie gg, and offesive DD nite can 6-0 you easily. Adressing your previous comment Suicune over ChestoRest Kingdra does not work because Starmie will beat if you cannot get it with Ape's U-Turn earily on. What I think you should be doing is making Infernape a Scarfer. CBApe shits on Apes normal switches, Bulky Waters. But with Passho Heatrap and Kingdra you already are shitting on Bulky Waters. At the endgame everything will die to a ScarfApe CC and with your extra speed you will be very hard to stop. I think you run CC, HP Ice, Overheat, and U-Turn as your set. Again amazing team and you would get a luvdisc, but I cannot do that.

Changes in Short

Scarfape > CBApe
 
Aren't you the guy who won the KingDaddyDMAC's Tournament?

Your RMT looks like killer, I'll try it out in PO! :toast:
 
Sup BKC, killer team as always, terrible music as always :p. I really like the heavy offensive synergy put into this team and it is very strongth!! That said this type of team is often weak to fast offensive threats but with CB Infernape (so underrated) with Mach Punch and lovely Heatrap, you actually do pretty decently against most annoying sweepers. Of course, the ones that do trouble you like Metagross, Dragonite, Kingdra or Lucario are really hard to patch up without ruining the pace of this team, as simple priority doesn't really check them and scarfed 'mons don't seem to fit anywhere on the team. That said, as a rater it is my duty to annoy the team poster by suggesting ridiculous suggestions that ruin the synergy that once made this team special in order to cover offensive threats on paper, so let's have at it!

The two things that seem they would help most would be a Scarf Flygon or Scarf Rotom-a. The problem with these, of course, is that they fit in absolutely nowhere. If any member of your team had to be replaced, I would say it would be Starmie or Kingdra, and you really start neglecting some synergy roles if you get rid of those (although a scarf Flygon could shove its way into Kingdra's spot, it would just open you up to LO Starmie and weaken your offense). Thus I think we're going to need to get creative in the way that we traditionally consider "counter" Pokemon. I used to actually run a Toxic Orb Jirachi set to bluff a scarf set, which oftentimes scared away the Pokemon a scarf Jirachi would normally be responsible for revenging- by simply playing it as a Scarf Pokemon, I oftentimes caught my opponents off guard in the fact that (a) I wasn't locked into a choice move (I Ice Punched many a Gliscor) and (b) that I had a Pokemon with Toxic Orb, which I tricked onto their RestTalk Gyarados or SubRoost Zapdos, etc. This relied on the assumption that if I switched my "scarf" Jirachi into a DD Dragonite at +1, they would switch out, and surprisingly enough it seemed to work 90% of the time. It is for this reason that I think a similar set would benefit this team- it "covers" many of the Pokemon that trouble you while maintaining offensive momentum and luring/killing many of your other sweepers counters (like RestTalk Gyarados).

There is however an issue with that, and that is this; if your opponent in his infinite wisdom doesn't think and decides that "whatever, im going to sack my dragonite / metagross / w/e", you're actually quite screwed as you won't outspeed or kill. For this reason, I suggest that if you fear the awesome power of Toxic Orb Jirachi, the more moderate and safe option would be a Shuca Berry so that you could actually revenge something if push comes to shove. You aren't losing much so it might even be the primary option. I would probably use this over Metagross, thanks to similar typing and the fact that you can actually slap a SR over Trick on this thing if you're running Shuca Berry- SR Scarf Jirachi isn't unheard of. The other option would be to give SR to Heatran which, while ruining Heatrap, would probably be safer and make your non-scarf Jirachi less obvious. Idk this is definitely a convoluted matter of personal preference so I'll let you figure it out.

That's all the advice I have; geez BKC your teams take me forever to rate, that's a good thing. I hope this helps.
 
Hey BKC, solid team as usual.

I'm glad to see LO Starmie + Lum Metagross still working after 5 issues. However, when your opponent leads with a Pursuiter such as Tyranitar (or traps Starmie after setting up Stealth Rock), you become kind of weak to opposing Infernape and Gyarados. A good way to deal with both is a Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Rotom-H (though Pursuit weakness is annoying) or a Choice Scarf Flygon. However, Choice Scarf Flygon doesn't seem to fit on the team as it leaves you open to other threats such as Swords Dance Lucario, who KO's with ExtremeSpeed and a bit of prior damage and Pokemon you now check with both Infernape and Heatran. If you change Infernape for Flygon, you rely on Heatran to check a lot of threats which may be a bit overloaded, especially considering it Explodes often.

A note about Choice Scarf Flygon: it does not outspeed Agiligross anymore nowadays since most are Jolly.


You might want to consider a Naive / Timid nature on Heatran. Right now, you don't outspeed Adamant max speed Gyarados, which is a waste of Hidden Power Electric. You do lose a lot of power, so beware of that.


Changes in short: Choice Scarf Rotom-A / Flygon > Infernape (optional)




PS I might have nominated this if you didn't mess up the sprites; you have 2 BW sprites, 1 DP, 1 Plat and 2 HGSS. That annoys me in RMTs.

Edit: this song is indeed bad
edit2: imo
 
Like what other raters have said, you have an amazing team here. There is no wall that can stop you, the problem is on the other side of the spectrum. Stuff like CM Raikou, it is hitting Kingdra for 84 % min after it sets up on Ape and if it wins the speed tie gg, and offesive DD nite can 6-0 you easily. Adressing your previous comment Suicune over ChestoRest Kingdra does not work because Starmie will beat if you cannot get it with Ape's U-Turn earily on. What I think you should be doing is making Infernape a Scarfer. CBApe shits on Apes normal switches, Bulky Waters. But with Passho Heatrap and Kingdra you already are shitting on Bulky Waters. At the endgame everything will die to a ScarfApe CC and with your extra speed you will be very hard to stop. I think you run CC, HP Ice, Overheat, and U-Turn as your set. Again amazing team and you would get a luvdisc, but I cannot do that.

Changes in Short

Scarfape > CBApe

Thanks Ian. I originally tried ScarfApe but that was before I ran ChestoRest Kingdra, so I'll try it out here.

Aren't you the guy who won the KingDaddyDMAC's Tournament?

Your RMT looks like killer, I'll try it out in PO! :toast:

Yes I am lol. Thanks!

Sup BKC, killer team as always, terrible music as always :p. I really like the heavy offensive synergy put into this team and it is very strongth!! That said this type of team is often weak to fast offensive threats but with CB Infernape (so underrated) with Mach Punch and lovely Heatrap, you actually do pretty decently against most annoying sweepers. Of course, the ones that do trouble you like Metagross, Dragonite, Kingdra or Lucario are really hard to patch up without ruining the pace of this team, as simple priority doesn't really check them and scarfed 'mons don't seem to fit anywhere on the team. That said, as a rater it is my duty to annoy the team poster by suggesting ridiculous suggestions that ruin the synergy that once made this team special in order to cover offensive threats on paper, so let's have at it!

The two things that seem they would help most would be a Scarf Flygon or Scarf Rotom-a. The problem with these, of course, is that they fit in absolutely nowhere. If any member of your team had to be replaced, I would say it would be Starmie or Kingdra, and you really start neglecting some synergy roles if you get rid of those (although a scarf Flygon could shove its way into Kingdra's spot, it would just open you up to LO Starmie and weaken your offense). Thus I think we're going to need to get creative in the way that we traditionally consider "counter" Pokemon. I used to actually run a Toxic Orb Jirachi set to bluff a scarf set, which oftentimes scared away the Pokemon a scarf Jirachi would normally be responsible for revenging- by simply playing it as a Scarf Pokemon, I oftentimes caught my opponents off guard in the fact that (a) I wasn't locked into a choice move (I Ice Punched many a Gliscor) and (b) that I had a Pokemon with Toxic Orb, which I tricked onto their RestTalk Gyarados or SubRoost Zapdos, etc. This relied on the assumption that if I switched my "scarf" Jirachi into a DD Dragonite at +1, they would switch out, and surprisingly enough it seemed to work 90% of the time. It is for this reason that I think a similar set would benefit this team- it "covers" many of the Pokemon that trouble you while maintaining offensive momentum and luring/killing many of your other sweepers counters (like RestTalk Gyarados).

There is however an issue with that, and that is this; if your opponent in his infinite wisdom doesn't think and decides that "whatever, im going to sack my dragonite / metagross / w/e", you're actually quite screwed as you won't outspeed or kill. For this reason, I suggest that if you fear the awesome power of Toxic Orb Jirachi, the more moderate and safe option would be a Shuca Berry so that you could actually revenge something if push comes to shove. You aren't losing much so it might even be the primary option. I would probably use this over Metagross, thanks to similar typing and the fact that you can actually slap a SR over Trick on this thing if you're running Shuca Berry- SR Scarf Jirachi isn't unheard of. The other option would be to give SR to Heatran which, while ruining Heatrap, would probably be safer and make your non-scarf Jirachi less obvious. Idk this is definitely a convoluted matter of personal preference so I'll let you figure it out.

That's all the advice I have; geez BKC your teams take me forever to rate, that's a good thing. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the good ass rate Smith, I'll definitely try out this weird bluff Jirachi of yours. Oh and the song is good you just don't appreciate Japanese metal :(

Hey BKC, solid team as usual.

I'm glad to see LO Starmie + Lum Metagross still working after 5 issues. However, when your opponent leads with a Pursuiter such as Tyranitar (or traps Starmie after setting up Stealth Rock), you become kind of weak to opposing Infernape and Gyarados. A good way to deal with both is a Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Rotom-H (though Pursuit weakness is annoying) or a Choice Scarf Flygon. However, Choice Scarf Flygon doesn't seem to fit on the team as it leaves you open to other threats such as Swords Dance Lucario, who KO's with ExtremeSpeed and a bit of prior damage and Pokemon you now check with both Infernape and Heatran. If you change Infernape for Flygon, you rely on Heatran to check a lot of threats which may be a bit overloaded, especially considering it Explodes often.

A note about Choice Scarf Flygon: it does not outspeed Agiligross anymore nowadays since most are Jolly.


You might want to consider a Naive / Timid nature on Heatran. Right now, you don't outspeed Adamant max speed Gyarados, which is a waste of Hidden Power Electric. You do lose a lot of power, so beware of that.


Changes in short: Choice Scarf Rotom-A / Flygon > Infernape (optional)




PS I might have nominated this if you didn't mess up the sprites; you have 2 BW sprites, 1 DP, 1 Plat and 2 HGSS. That annoys me in RMTs.

Edit: this song is indeed bad
edit2: imo

I don't really need to outspeed offensive Gyarados thanks to Passho. I'll definitely try Scarf Rotom/Flygon.
This song is indeed good, man Smith has a bad influence on you people :(

Thanks for the rates guys!
 
Oh and the song is good you just don't appreciate Japanese metal :(

(...)

This song is indeed good, man Smith has a bad influence on you people :(

Okay, I just listened the 10-20 first seconds of the "Maximum the Hormone" version, but I just found out it's the wrong version. The "Death Note" version is pretty okay I guess, except for the screaming parts.
 
Solid team, what can I say? Not too much, actually, especially not that's been said already.

I do have a funky little suggestion you could try out, though:
Swords Dance Infernape.

You sacrifice the immediate power and scouting ability of the Choice Band and U-Turn, respectively, but you're able to boost your power even further, and the surprise value is there, and it can still beat several waters.

Problem is, he severely suffers from the 4-slot syndrome; you'll have to choose between Mach Punch for revenge killing and priority sweeping, or Stone Edge for hitting Dragonite and Gyarados trying to switch in. Not to mention, you also lose another way of dealing with Starmie, U-Turning as it switches in, so that's an issue.

I dunno, just something I thought I'd throw out there.
 
Solid team, what can I say? Not too much, actually, especially not that's been said already.

I do have a funky little suggestion you could try out, though:
Swords Dance Infernape.

You sacrifice the immediate power and scouting ability of the Choice Band and U-Turn, respectively, but you're able to boost your power even further, and the surprise value is there, and it can still beat several waters.

Problem is, he severely suffers from the 4-slot syndrome; you'll have to choose between Mach Punch for revenge killing and priority sweeping, or Stone Edge for hitting Dragonite and Gyarados trying to switch in. Not to mention, you also lose another way of dealing with Starmie, U-Turning as it switches in, so that's an issue.

I dunno, just something I thought I'd throw out there.

Eh, I never really liked SD Ape thanks to its frailty giving it limited setup opportunities and its 4 moveslot syndrome. I'll give it a try, though. Thanks for the rate!
 
What is your plan against Heracross? I really like using Choiced Heracross, so you shouldn't discount it as a threat. While you can bluff against it with Heatran, and maybe take a hit against it with Metagross or Breloom, Heracross still outspeeds them in the end, even without a Scarf, and your Starmie isn't really built to last. I know Infernape outspeeds it and can switch into Megahorn, but you should be more worried about Close Combat.

Also...

...and Shedinja dies to rocks (plus, who the fuck uses it?)

I use a Shedinja :toast: I even have a RMT up about it.
 
Eh, I never really liked SD Ape thanks to its frailty giving it limited setup opportunities and its 4 moveslot syndrome. I'll give it a try, though. Thanks for the rate!
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I always find Infernape surviving pretty well. It can find room to set up on certain members of stall/balanced teams, but probably almost no chance against an offensive team (bar a weak choice-locked move that it resists). 4 slot syndrome is a real killer, though.
 
What is your plan against Heracross? I really like using Choiced Heracross, so you shouldn't discount it as a threat. While you can bluff against it with Heatran, and maybe take a hit against it with Metagross or Breloom, Heracross still outspeeds them in the end, even without a Scarf, and your Starmie isn't really built to last. I know Infernape outspeeds it and can switch into Megahorn, but you should be more worried about Close Combat.

Also...

I use a Shedinja :toast: I even have a RMT up about it.

Heracross is actually a pretty underrated threat, but thankfully it's rare. Scarfers are taken on by Metagross and Breloom, Kingdra can take a hit if necessary. CBers are outrun by Infernape. Also Shedinja dies to either rocks, Heatran's Magma Storm, or Ape's Flare Blitz.
 
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