Yawn + Dragon Dance Kingdra

dragonpokeZ

dragonpokeZ


Are you drowsy? Let's dance!

Name: Yawn + Dragon Dance
Move 1: Yawn
Move 2: Dragon Dance
Move 3: Outrage
Move 4: Waterfall
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Uses Yawn to force switches and use Dragon Dance better.
  • Yawn filles the really small movepool of Kingdra.
  • Waterfall + Outrage gives good coverage.
  • People expecting a Substitute version will get surprised.
  • Yawn is really good when your opponent only has 1 Pokemon left.
  • Swift Swim works really well against rain, while Sniper can make critical hits more powerful.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Struggles against both Empoleon and Ferroseed, so Magneton can be a good partner
  • Rain will make it really fast, but it isn't that easy to use it when needing to charge with Dragon Dance
  • Can also use Leftovers and a bulkier spread to set up easier, or Jolly nature for more speed.
 
You know, you might want to mention some additional options in AC. Maybe stuff like Leftovers, Timid Nature, not really sure what else but i'm sure there's something (Maybe more bulk for easier setup?)
 
tehy said:
You know, you might want to mention some additional options in AC. Maybe stuff like Leftovers, Timid Nature, not really sure what else but i'm sure there's something (Maybe more bulk for easier setup?)
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll put it, but I can¡t think about a bulkier spread.
 
IMO, I am not a UU player, only NU and OU, but wouldn't you just plain use Dragon Dance with more coverage than using Yawn first?
 
Vertex said:
IMO, I am not a UU player, only NU and OU, but wouldn't you just plain use Dragon Dance with more coverage than using Yawn first?
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The problem is that Kingdra does not need more coverage, and also it doesn't have it. Substitute blocks burns and that, but Yawn has a really good surprise effect which can decide a game.
 
dragonpokeZ said:
The problem is that Kingdra does not need more coverage, and also it doesn't have it. Substitute blocks burns and that, but Yawn has a really good surprise effect which can decide a game.
Click to expand...

That's not what I meant. Okay look at this:

230.png
VS
429.png

Kingdra use Yawn!
Mismagius became drowsy.
Mismagius used Shadow Ball!
Kingdra took 41% damage!

Retard Trainer called Mismagius back!
Retard Trainer sent out Registeel!
Kingdra used Dragon Dance!

~~~~~~

Honestly, that means that you could've not waste the turn using Yawn, to make them switch, but use Dragon Dance right way in Turn 1. Hidden Power [Fighting] or some kind of coverage move would honestly be better since you could atleast hit Empoleon and Ferroseed which is why I think its not worth the time. Substitute would also be superior. The only thing I'd see Yawn useful for is preventing set-up sweepers from setting up, which Substitute can do while retaliating as they break the Substitute.
 
Vertex said:
That's not what I meant. Okay look at this:

230.png
VS
429.png

Kingdra use Yawn!
Mismagius became drowsy.
Mismagius used Shadow Ball!
Kingdra took 41% damage!

Retard Trainer called Mismagius back!
Retard Trainer sent out Registeel!
Kingdra used Dragon Dance!

~~~~~~

Honestly, that means that you could've not waste the turn using Yawn, to make them switch, but use Dragon Dance right way in Turn 1. Hidden Power [Fighting] or some kind of coverage move would honestly be better since you could atleast hit Empoleon and Ferroseed which is why I think its not worth the time. Substitute would also be superior. The only thing I'd see Yawn useful for is preventing set-up sweepers from setting up, which Substitute can do while retaliating as they break the Substitute.
Click to expand...



I disagree with Vertex. Yawn is used to force switches which gives Kingdra time to setup Dragon Dances, which would make it so Kingdra can deal huge damage to the switch in with one of its two STABs (which are really all it needs to attack, as Empoleon and Ferroseed are both quite rare). If the switch in manages to outspeed Kingdra after the boost, then it can just continue boosting as Pokemon who're faster than Kingdra after a boost usually can't OHKO it. At +2, Kingdra can both outspeed and OHKO said Pokemon, then proceed to sweep the rest of the opponent's team. The only scenario of where this strategy wouldn't work out is if the Pokemon that Kingdra first used Yawn against heavily dented it so the switch in could OHKO (Kingdra shouldn't be Yawning Pokemon that do over 50% to it), or the switch in is a Pokemon that can take a hit and then phaze Kingdra out (Roar Suicune). Empoleon also gets 2HKOed by +2 Outrage while it can only 3HKO back with Ice Beam, so there's that (although Empoleon would win with some prior damage if it attacks while Kingdra gets that second boost). Using HP Fighting isn't going to help as it still does pathetic damage to both Empoleon and Ferroseed.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Now onto the set comments and such, I have a few suggestions you might want to implement:

  • Slash Lum Berry with Life Orb as Kingdra's switch ins might sometimes be defensive Pokemon that use TWave or WoW (Slowbro/Cofag) in attempts to cripple it. Lum also allows Kingdra to use Outrage a second time without worrying about the confusion.
  • Mention what this set particularly beats (setup sweepers, something like Bisharp comes to mind)
  • Yawn gives more opportunities, which is really what sets this set apart from others (replace the first point with my suggestion)
  • Expand on Waterfall + Outrage saying that Kingdra's STABs give it nearly perfect coverage, lessening the need for another attack.
  • The last point in SC should be removed.
  • AC is incomplete, the last point needs to be split into two, one that talks about Jolly, and one that talks about Lefties.
  • Mention how Swift Swim should only be used with rain support from Tornadus, if it doesn't have any, then Sniper is the better choice. (Mention this is AC, not SC)
  • The Magneton point should go after the nature and ability points.
  • Mention entry hazard setters, Bronzong is a good option as it can switch into Flygon and other Dragons with ease, while also having its Fire-type weakness mitigated by rain.

230.png
This is all I got for now, but I hope I helped
230.png
 
I get it, Yawning costs one turn and to avoid the sleep they switch which also costs one turn. Yawn doesn't give you any time to set up, but it is useful in that the opponent now has to bring in their second best thing to tackle the Yawner.
 
Yeah, this plays too similarly to the current offensive Dragon Dance set so I don't think it deserves it's own analysis, not to mention Yawn is only actually good in theory, not in practice. If anything I'll probably add this to the AC section of the current set, but for now

QC Rejected 1/3
 
I fail to see how this can do a better job than the Sub + DD set that's already on-site because, in the end, you're basically accomplishing the same thing. Substitute has more pros, such as blocking status and sometimes even withstanding certain hits, while Yawn is just good for the surprise factor and sleeping the last Pokemon on the opponent's team. What happens if the opponent doesn't actually switch out and instead finishes you off as you obliviously Dragon Dance? Cool, you got one of his Pokemon to sleep, but you just lost a formidable sweeper. Yawn is pretty easy to work around and can potentially cost you rather than help you if you're playing against a semi-decent person. I'm not convinced this set is good enough to warrant an analysis and thus a mention in OO is the better way to go in my opinion.
 
Hey there interesting set however Yawn is a 2 part move and to be honest, by the time you manage to pull it off, the opposing Pokemon will get off some nice damage on the Kingdra. Not to mention that with LO it just becomes so prone to being revenge killed by scarf mons and priority.

People expecting a Substitute version will get surprised.
Click to expand...

To be honest Bronzong / Slowbro / Amoongus won't Toxic / Twave / Spore anyways fearing the chestorest or Substitute; they'd attack, get some respectable damage and once you reveal the Yawn on the switch-in; they can just switch to a scarfer to get some damage and then bring back bronzong to finish to be honest. Phazers such as Blastoise still have an easy time facing this Kingdra and without Rest or Substitute + life Orb you really lessen your chances of a mini/clean sweep.

It doesnt really deserve a whole set on the basis of a singular move that can be a huge liability in alot of situations.
 
Honestly, me and Calloflochie threw this exact set together a month or so ago and it's definitely worthy of some notable mention. However, we used a bulky EV spread since that was the focus of the set. We ran Yawn mainly to help nab more boosts, it's pretty useful with the bulk added. The spread was: 248 HP / 110 Atk / 4 SpDef / 146 Spe. The EVs were customized to focus on bulk with as much HP as possible while maintaining enough speed to outpace positive-natured Base 115s after hitting a +1 from Dragon Dance, while everything else was put into Atk. Lum Berry was the item of choice for dealing with the occasional status move, but Leftovers is pretty convenient for longevity. It's pretty effective at nabbing boosts, and though I don't have the replay, the Poke LITERALLY took me from a 5-1 deficit down to a 1-1. The only reason I lost that battle was because I hit myself in confusion (my Lum Berry got used up, go figure). Most of the time it was used it was during the midgame if a sweep was possible, if not lategame. It really struggles against phazers/bulky waters, but when it sets up, it does work.

A lot of arguments go against the move Yawn, but when you can actually take a hit (much to your opponent's surprise), you'd be surprised how much more useful it is. I feel it's at least a bit worthy of a mention in AC for the main set at the least.
 
It's been a while since I posted and the OP hasn't produced something to make me change my stance.

(QC REJECTED 2/3)
 
Watta pity, I wanted to see some logs of it in action. In any case, it might warrant an AC spot on the Offensive DD set, like RT. said. For the moment though,

QC REJECTED 3/3
 
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