ORAS PU Wonder Guard is a great guard

[Karst]

Ghost in the Shell - does Shedinja actually work?

Introduction

Hello, lurker here, I'd like to present a team that I thought was pretty interesting, that I've used quite a lot and with modest success.
I think it's hard not to like Shedinja. There are a number of unique, gimmicky Pokémon that require special circumstances to work but Shedinja is surely the most unique and gimmicky of them all.
Unfortunately time has not been kind to the little golden bug ghost, with every generation bringing about new ways to remove its precious hit point. Still, there are few things more satisfying (and likely frustrating for the opponent) than a Shedinja in a situation in which it cannot be touched.
Of course this team isn't all about Shedinja - overall, it's simply a stall-oriented PU team that started with the idea of making Shedinja work.
Most of my teams tend to be rather defensive, as I tend to build them by checking off defensive roles: okay, I need a good special wall, I need a good physical wall, a rapid spinner, a hazer or phazer....and before I know it, I have 5/6 and they're all defensive.
Anyway, here goes.

The Team

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 ATK / 252 SPE
Adamant (+ATK/-SATK)
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Baton Pass
- Protect

This is pretty much the mon the team was built around, which is funny because it's probably the least used. I'd say I get a ratio of about 50/50 of games I can't even bring Shed into play because I failed to get rid of entry, and games that I won because it ended up against things that couldn't touch it.

X-Scissor hits pretty hard, Shadow Sneak hits pretty fast and anyway those are pretty much the only offensive moves viable on Shedinja.
Baton Pass is for expected switches and Protect scouts potential SE moves but especially stuff like Toxic that the Focus Sash won't save it from.
Usually it doesn't come out until later, but if there's no hazards out it can break momentum against things like choice locked opponents.

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SDEF
Bold (+DEF/-ATK)
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Stunfisk has long been my favorite Stealth Rocker in NU, but the bulky fisk is even more comfortable in PU. Its dual STABs offer fantastic SE coverage and its SATK is sufficient to make things like Probopass regret a Taunt.
I pretty much always lead with it, it can set up rocks in relative comfort against most other common leads, except Weakness Policy Golem.
Max DEF and HP gives it ridiculous mixed bulk, allowing it to survive things like Choice Band Basculin's Waterfall (79.6 - 93.8%) or Timid Rotom-Frost's Blizzard (73.9 - 87.2%). Toxic is a necessity against anything with recovery and/or reasonable bulk.
Static is an amazing ability, allowing it to potentially end a sweep simply by switching in, and it works great in tandem with Discharge's high para rate. Paralysis support is very important for this team as all but one member are very slow.

Torkoal @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 232 DEF / 28 SDEF
Bold (+DEF/-ATK)
- Lava Plume
- Clear Smog
- Rapid Spin
- Yawn

Torkoal has two main purposes, physical wall and rapid spinner. It's very good at the former, sadly not as good at the latter. Being weak to stealth rock and hit by Spikes and TSpikes is not really what you want on a spinner, and if Torkoal fails at its task Shedinja is doomed before it can even come in.
Still, it's a very reliable check to many physical attackers.
Lava Plume threatens to burn, Clear Smog prevents it from being set up on, Rapid Spin spins rapidly, and Yawn is a nice annoying move that I mainly use to "scout" switch ins and keep momentum.

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SATK / 8 SDEF
Calm (+SDEF/-ATK)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast

Regice is a special sponge and tank. With max SATK investment its Ice Beam hits pretty hard and BoltBeam coverage is as good as always. Thunder Wave ruins fast sweepers and like with Stunfisk, is a big help for this slow team.
Focus Blast misses many BoltBeam switch-ins, especially Rotom-Frost, very hard, OHKO'ing after Stealth Rock. As Regice lacks reliable recovery, a Calm nature was used to allow it to switch into special attacks as often as possible. It takes a pittance from special attacks like Kadabra's Psychic (19 - 22.5%) and even strong SE attacks like Life Orb Zebstrika's Overheat don't worry it greatly (36.6 - 42.9%).

Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SATK / 4 SPE
Modest (+SATK/-ATK)
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Leaf Storm
- Wish

Exeggutor is used mainly because of its enormous special attack - very few things that aren't immune can comfortably switch into a Leaf Storm. Rotom-Frost 0/0 (yes, I use it often as an example, it's a common mon) is guaranteed OHKO'd, even a potential 252/0 is 50% OHKO'd without Stealth Rock.
Now the unusual part here is of course Wish+max HP. The idea is that it can Wish on something it forces out and hopefully heal one of its mates, usually Torkoal or Regice. With 95 base HP and max investment, it can pass impressive 197 Wishes, and its lack of speed doesn't matter so much if the opponent was paralyzed.
In practice it may want to use its great attacking potential most of the time, and because it has so many weaknesses it doesn't force out as many things as I'd like.
Psychic is used over Psyshock as PU doesn't have many special walls, and the ones there are (like Regice or Grumpig) take very little damage from Psyshock and/or force Exe out anyway.
Giga Drain is a good move that doesn't force Exeggutor out like Leaf Storm does and helps it recover Life Orb and other damage.
One point in speed allows it to outspeed, uh....nospeed Bouffalant and opposing Exeggutor I guess.

Dodrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 ATK / 4 DEF / 252 SPE
Jolly (+SPE/-SATK)
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Knock Off
- Pursuit

Finally, something completely different. Where everything else is very slow and mostly defensively oriented, Dodrio is here for fast, immediate physical power.
Choice Band Dodrio's 120/102 BP STAB moves deal massive damage to most things that don't resist them, and 252 SPE Jolly makes it very fast for PU.
In early and mid game, Dodrio uses Return to punch holes in things and Knock Off if there are potential Ghost or tough Rock/Steel switch ins. Later in the game, when priority move users and faster mons have been removed or crippled, it can clean up.
Brave Bird is immensely powerful but massively cuts Dodrio's survivability especially if rocks are out, so it generally isn't used unless there's no other way to get rid of something.
Dodrio is an absolute necessity on the team as it provides power and pace that nothing else has.

Conclusion

Overall I've been pretty happy with this team, every member has been useful in certain situations.
There are several weaknesses though that I'll list.

• It relies a LOT on Stunfisk. Not just for Stealth Rocks, but because its the only member that can reliably handle numerous threats, such as pretty much any fire type. It's also the only member with toxic, so bulky Pokémon with recovery are a massive problem if it's dead.
• It only has Torkoal to Spin, and if hazards are out and Torkoal dies, I lose two Pokémon instead of one. This point is obvious I guess, and it's not like having more than one spinner is normal, but Torkoal just isn't as reliable as a spinner as I'd like. It fulfills the physical wall role better than the spinner role.
• It's fairly weak to setup. Shedinja can actually stop a fair number of setup sweepers cold. Torkoal can Clear Smog or Yawn them out, although if there's a Sub involved that's out the window. Dodrio is fast and strong, but it's not that fast. That's a lot of Ifs. Besides Shedinja's Shadow Sneak the team also completely lacks priority - I might put Quick Attack on Dodrio over Pursuit.
• It's very weak to Toxic, and doesn't have a cleric. Shedinja is instakilled by it. Besides Dodrio, everyone on the team really, really hates being poisoned.
• It lacks speed and offensive power. Bulky mons that I don't manage to toxic are a huge problem. Torkoal and Stunfisk have very unimpressive attacks. Shedinja, Regice and especially Exeggutor have power, but all three are very slow. Only Dodrio is both fast and strong, and Dodrio is fragile, predictable and choiced.
• There are some mons that it just doesn't have an answer to, first and foremost Weakness Policy Golem. It outspeeds everything bar Dodrio which it Sucker Punches to death, it's immune to Thunder Wave and threatens Stunfisk with a non-contact, super effective STAB Earthquake which OHKOs at +2.

Anyway that's all, what do you think?
Should I drop the silly Wish Exe and go for a more conventional set? Replace Yawn with Toxic on Torkoal, or just use a different spinner altogether? Is using Shedinja just dumb to begin with? (yeah, probably)

Thanks for reading.

 

[Raiza]

Hi Karst, it's always nice to see people build around things such as Shedinja, which in my opinion have plenty of potential, so I'll be more than happy to help you fix your issues. However, the team is weak to a plethora of Pokemon, and it would need to completely change structure to fix all the issues there are, so I will just stick to changing few Pokemon and sets to plug the biggest holes in your build.

The first thing that popped up to my eye is that your team is VERY weak to Stealth Rock. This is due to you having 4 Pokemon that are weak to it, one of them gets insta-killed, and another is your Rapid Spinner itself, Torkoal. Torkoal is not enough of an answer to deal with Stealth Rock: it's not reliable at all as it doesn't carry any decent recovery, which makes it even more easy to pressure and weaken it, this is accentuated by the fact that it has to constantly switch into the field because your team otherwise would get deteriorated rather quickly. Also Torkoal has a pretty poor match-up against most Stealth Rock users, which doesn't surely help it in its task of getting Stealth Rock removed. What you can do to fix this is replacing Torkoal with Vibrava. Vibrava is way more reliable than Torkoal for simple reasons I'm going to list to you: I suggested you this change mainly because Vibrava is not weak to Stealth Rock, and this already gives it way more freedom regarding switching into hits, then it also carries a reliable recovery in Roost, which helps too regarding switching in and being durable. Vibrava also provides you an insurance against specially attacking Fire-types, which were a pain as both Torkoal and Stunfisk carried physically defensive focused spreads, and Golem, as it can pivot out with U-Turn and break its Sturdy, or can win the 1v1 directly clicking Earthquake if Golem is running the Custap Berry variant. U-Turn also provides momentum bringing your strong attackers into the field with safety, and creating a chain with Baton Pass Shedinja, given they also have a pretty nice typing synergy together.

This change leaves you with double Ground-types, which overlap and can be pretty underwhelming at times especially because they are your main walls, since they rely too much on teammates to switch to fix the many weaknesses these two are susceptible to, such as the plethora of Grass- and Ice-types that are running around these days. For these reasons, I find bulky Relicanth to be more fitting here than Stunfisk. Relicanth has way better typing synergy with Vibrava than Stunfisk, and also provides you with a less passive Stealth Rock setter, as it carries the heavy hitting Head Smash. Other than that, Relicanth also hugely helps against Normal-types such as Choice Band Dodrio and Stoutland which threaten your team given you have no resists to Normal-types, and other offensive powerhouses such as physical Floatzel, which you have no switch ins for if Stealth Rock are up. Relicanth can also serve as a soft check to specially attacking Floatzel and lower the pressure put on Regice, but it has to be healthy.

Now onto set changes: I would rather run a Modest nature on Regice, as it would help you hit harder and bring down faster things such as Misdreavus that can be threatening to your team, and I don't see a Calm nature being too key here, especially now that you have another insurance against special attackers in Vibrava, and Wish Exeggutor also helps staying healthy. In the thread you also state that setup sweepers can be kind of a pain for your team, which is understandable as it is rather slow, replacing Stunfisk with Relicanth makes it less passive and harder for opponents to find chances to set up, but Vibrava is also arguably more passive than Torkoal, so it balances it out. What I think would help you against setup sweepers is running Will-O-Wisp on Shedinja over Protect: Protect is actually okay on Shedinja, but I feel like Will-O-Wisp would be more valuable to you. Will-O-Wisp on Shedinja will make it less of a set up fodder and better of an answer to slower physical set up sweepers, while it is also beneficial in general when forcing out opposing switches, which is common when running Shedinja as it will often wall an opposing Pokemon because of its ability, causing them to switch out. Will-O-Wisp is also nice to cripple bulky Pokemon. Following chance is facultative, but last thing that I think can make you less weak to set up sweepers would be to run Choice Scarf Dodrio, which will provide an actually fast answer to them, but will make you slightly more susceptible to balanced and defensive builds, even though they still shouldn't be that big of a deal when running Exeggutor. Something similiar to that would be keeping Choice Band but running Quick Attack over Pursuit, as you already said, but Pursuit is pretty valuable against things such as Misdreavus.

sets

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
- Earthquake

Relicanth @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Toxic
- Waterfall

 

[Karst]

Hey Raiza, thanks a lot for the feedback. Those are some great suggestions.
I've replaced Stunfisk (which was painful) and Torkoal (less painful).
Vibrava is a mon I've seen around a bit and it seems pretty cool, I've rather liked that evolutionary line since Gen3.
I've never been much of a fan of Defog and much prefer Rapid Spin, but I have to say it's impressively bulky and can defog reliably.
U-Turn is the best part though, really helps with momentum. Its offenses are so awful, I'm considering just replacing Earthquake (42.5 - 50.4% on lead Golem) with Toxic, though that would have for example left me helpless against an Ariados setting up Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web. The quad weakness to Ice doesn't help, nor does the weakness to Knock Off, but it does seem like a solid mon.

Relicanth is something I've been looking at for a while, I was going to put an offensive Rock Polish variant on a team. I'm very happy with it.
It really shuts down many physical attackers and Fire mons, although it tends not to live very long. There's always an HP Grass or Giga Drain hiding somewhere you don't expect it.
Like you said, while Vibrava has even less offensive presence than Stunfisk, Relicanth really threatens with that dangerous Head Smash.
If there's anything I could criticize about it it's that it isn't all that reliable at Toxic'ing, less so than Stunfisk as its bulk is really entirely limited to the physical side and it has that dangerous quad weakness.
Still, a great addition to the team overall.

Of course this is after only a few games, I really can't say that much. But those are definitely good improvements!

Edit: I've also changed Regice to Modest, and replaced Pursuit on Dodrio with Quick Attack (Pursuit really isn't something you want to choice yourself into, and it has Knock Off for Ghosts and Psychics anyway) but I can't really comment on those changes yet as it's pretty hard to judge them after only a small number of games.