What would you guys think for a Pokemon's signature move

[Sonikku A]

So in 1997 Bandai made a card set for the 151 Pokemon, with the art representing a Signature move.
Link: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pocket_Monsters_Carddass_Trading_Cards
So just for fun, what if we try to guess some for the other Pokemon Gens?
To start, Cleffa seems to be "Dizzy Punch". Art from GSC

Some Legendaries already have a signature, so we'll skip those. That leaves... the rest of Gen 2-8!
Spreadsheet for this project! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11i00Dh1HAII3hGc9rpr4R-ZRy9-VWjyCPFR8c8D_XBU/edit?usp=sharing

 

[DrPumpkinz]

It would be helpful if you linked to the card set.

 

[Sonikku A]

It would be helpful if you linked to the card set.

Fixed!

 

[Celever]

This is a really neat idea! There's always been moves that people tend to associate with specific Pokémon despite being learned by many of them. For the purpose of this list we'll assume that all Gen I Pokémon keep the Gen I moves they originally got in the card set, and because I'm lazy and don't want to figure out the ~10 Gen I moves that weren't included in the set I'll start with Gen II moves. First, the in-game signature moves which are obvious choices. Some are shared between two evolutionary stages, so I opted for the ones who I think it better applies to.

Signature Moves in-game so obvious choices (even if not signature any more)

- Strange Steam
- Spider Web
- Toxic Thread
- Morning Sun
- Pain Split
- Megahorn
- Beat Up
- Octazooka
- Present
- Steel Wing
- Conversion 2
- Sketch
- Triple Kick / Rolling Kick (neither of these fit any better on Pheromosa or Marshadow, the only other Pokémon to learn them respectively)
- Milk Drink
- Softboiled
- Aeroblast
- Sacred Fire
- Heal Bell (this is signature in Gen VIII, go figure)
- Leaf Blade
- Blaze Kick
- Muddy Water
- Extrasensory
- Slack Off
- Arm Thrust
- Smelling Salts
- Assist
- GrassWhistle
- Magic Coat
- Teeter Dance
- Needle Arm
- Crush Claw
- Poison Tail
- Weather Ball
- Ice Ball
- Mist Ball
- Luster Purge
- Origin Pulse
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Ascent
- Doom Desire
- Psycho Boost
- Defend Order / Heal Order / Attack Order
- Flower Shield
- Chatter
- Rock Wrecker
- Roar of Time
- Spacial Rend
- Magma Storm
- Crush Grip
- Shadow Force
- Lunar Dance
- Heart Swap
- Dark Void
- Seed Flare
- Judgement
- V-Create
- Heat Crash
- Simple Beam
- Secret Power
- Storm Throw
- Power Trip
- Crafty Shield
- Night Daze
- Tail Slap
- Horn Leech
- Gear Grind
- Shift Gear
- Water Shuriken
- Snap Trap
- Head Charge
- Fire Lash
- Fiery Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike
- Glaciate
- Ice Burn
- Freeze Shock
- Secret Sword
- Relic Song
- Techno Blast
- Mat Block
- Powder
- Noble Roar
- Light of Ruin
- Parting Shot
- King's Shield
- Topsy-Turvy
- Parabolic Charge
- Electrify
- Flying Press
- Forest's Curse
- Trick-or-Treat
- Geomancy
- Oblivion Wing
- Land's Wrath
- Diamond Storm
- Hyperspace Fury
- Steam Eruption
- Spirit Shackle
- Darkest Lariat
- Sparkling Aria
- Beak Blast
- Ice Hammer
- Revelation Dance
- Pollen Puff
- Accelerock
- Baneful Bunker
- Solar Blade
- Strength Sap
- Trop Kick
- Floral Healing
- Instruct
- First Impression
- Shore Up
- Purify
- Multi-Attack
- Shell Trap
- Zing zap
- Psychic Fangs
- Anchor Shot
- Clangorous Soul
- Sunsteel Strike
- Moongeist Beam
- Prismatic Laser
- Fleur Cannon
- Mind Blown
- Spectral Thief
- Plasma Fists
- Double Iron Bash
- Drum Beating
- Pyro Ball
- Snipe Shot
- Stuff Cheeks
- Jaw Lock
- Tar Shot
- Grave Apple
- Apple Acid
- Overdrive
- Octolock
- Tea Time
- Magic Powder
- Confide
- False Surrender
- Spirit Break
- Obstruct
:sirfetch - Meteor Assault
- Decorate
- No Retreat
- Aura Wheel
- Dragon Darts
- Behemoth Blade
- Behemoth Bash
- Eternabeam

That knocked a lot of Pokémon and moves out of the way, but there are still some interesting ones to consider. For the most part I think it makes sense to put moves on Pokémon introduced in the same generation as they were, but with some exceptions (this is just a start on Gen II moves):

• Thief is an interesting move because it's a Gen II move that should probably be put on a Gen VIII Pokémon. learns this move upon evolution, so it seems like the best candidate.
• Mind Reader again should probably be learned by despite being a Gen II move.
• Nightmare strangely falls on , the only Pokémon after Gen I to learn it by level-up besides Darkrai, who has Dark Void.
• Curse should probably be learned by considering its namesake, despite being a Gen II move.
• Flail should probably be ' counterpart to Magikarp's Splash.
• Cotton Spore makes sense on all 3 cotton evolutionary lines -- Jumpluff, Cottonee and Eldegoss -- but because learns it upon evolution it actually makes the most sense on it imo.
• Heracross is the only Gen II Pokémon to learn Reversal but is taken up by Megahorn, so I think it actually makes the most sense on , who learns it as a level 1 move and keeps it in line with its Topsy-Turvy signature move taken by Inkay.
• I can see several moves making sense for , but in line with Cursola's Curse I think Spite is a fun choice.
• Protect is tricky because it makes sense on many Pokémon, but its only Gen II options are Pineco (who I think Rapid Spin works better for) and Forretress (who I think Spikes works better for). Of later Pokémon, I actually think is the best option given its design.
• Mach Punch was originally Hitmonchan's signature move but it was introduced in Gen II. As a result, I would put it on even though it didn't learn it until Gen IV.
• Though Belly Drum would be fun on Azumarill, it doesn't learn it by level-up. As a result, I think it's actually a great option for , as its competitive set is always Belly Drum.
• No Gen II Pokémon learn Sludge Bomb and the Pokémon who's literally a pile of sludge can't be used because it's Gen I, so I think this one goes to
• I think Zap Cannon is most iconic on rather than its Gen II compatriot Ampharos, given its use in battle facilities.
• Perish Song is funny because in theory it makes the most sense on Misdreavus, but as Pain Split was its signature move for 3 generations we have to look elsewhere. Altaria, Absol and Kricketune are all excellent options, but I think Kricketune fits Fell Stinger the best, and Altaria has many options like Disarming Voice, Sky Attack, Dragon Breath, Round, Refresh, and Cotton Guard, one of which it likely ends up being assigned. So gets Perish Song I think.
• The only Gen II Pokémon who learns Outrage is Granbull and it didn't learn it until significantly later. With that said, I don't know what Dragon-Type Pokémon it fits best on.
• Giga Drain probably falls onto given it's such a good fit for its design, and doesn't fit so well on any of the Gen II Pokémon that learn it.
• Endure is again really hard to place, but I'm inclined to say because it comes learning the move in Gen IV.

This is a neat idea for a thread and I think it could be a fun community project if someone (preferably Sonikku A as architect of the thread) made a spreadsheet for us to update and discuss.

 

[R_N]

So I know that Meditate is a gen 1 move (somehow) and got to be associated with Hypno in Cardass but....well... I mean I think Meditite the meditating Pokemon in the iconic meditating pose should probably have Meditate as its signature move in would-be revision. It seems fine to me, that same set of cards gave Supersonic to Zubat, Goldeen, Shellder, Magneton and Tentacool

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Looking through the cards, two things stand out.

1. Most of the moves seem more concerned with being an interesting pose or action for the Pokemon to be drawn doing, instead of actually being a signature move.
2. Evolutionary lines don't repeat moves.

 

[Ironmage]

a few random suggestions:

Buneary--Frustration: only mon to learn it via level-up

Porygon-Z--conversion: The cards have porygon using tri attack, so conversion is free to go on its biggest user

clauncher/clawitzer--water pulse: should be self-explanatory

scizor--bullet punch: likewise

Since the cards repeat moves, should we also consider changing some gen 1 mons as well? (e.g. give Mewtwo psystrike)

 

[Sonikku A]

[QUOTE="Ironmage

Since the cards repeat moves, should we also consider changing some gen 1 mons as well? (e.g. give Mewtwo psystrike)
[/QUOTE]
That'd be a good idea. Since we are covering multiple Gens anyway, redos for Gen 1 should be allowed
As for the spreadsheet I'll start it when I get home after work

 

[Sonikku A]

This is a neat idea for a thread and I think it could be a fun community project if someone (preferably Sonikku A as architect of the thread) made a spreadsheet for us to update and discuss.

Not finished, but the spreadsheet basics are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11i00Dh1HAII3hGc9rpr4R-ZRy9-VWjyCPFR8c8D_XBU/edit?usp=sharing
Every 25 mons I paste the guidlines just to be safe. Just did 3 slots for each now in case we have debates. Feel free to edit!

 

[R_N]

I added a fair amount but I can already tell we will be at war with each other on some of thes emoves

 

[Scorpio]

As always I am here with Helix Chamber stuff:
https://helixchamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/movecomparereplacement.png

About a month ago HC posted Part 1 of their analysis for the Gen 1 prototype asset’s move list, and in it they noticed a trend in which moves from ID 116 onwards in what we got appeared to be associated with various Pokémon. Above is the list they made, feel free to use it for consideration (though the 2nd and 4th columns are prototype stuff so... ignore those)

 

[Celever]

As always I am here with Helix Chamber stuff:
https://helixchamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/movecomparereplacement.png

About a month ago HC posted Part 1 of their analysis for the Gen 1 prototype asset’s move list, and in it they noticed a trend in which moves from ID 116 onwards in what we got appeared to be associated with various Pokémon. Above is the list they made, feel free to use it for consideration (though the 2nd and 4th columns are prototype stuff so... ignore those)

This is interesting stuff, but there are some odd things here compared to the final game. For instance, this associates Gyarados with Waterfall when in Gen I it was the signature move of Goldeen & Seaking; Blastoise is associated with Spike Cannon when only Omanyte, Omastar and Cloyster could learn it; Super Fang is listed with Aerodactyl when only Rattatta, Raticate, Nidoran(F) and Nidorina could learn it; Smog is with Grimer when only Koffing, Weezing, Magmar and Flareon could learn it; and there are perhaps others that I haven't noticed as inconsistent off the top of my head. What was the source behind this material?

So I know that Meditate is a gen 1 move (somehow) and got to be associated with Hypno in Cardass but....well... I mean I think Meditite the meditating Pokemon in the iconic meditating pose should probably have Meditate as its signature move in would-be revision. It seems fine to me, that same set of cards gave Supersonic to Zubat, Goldeen, Shellder, Magneton and Tentacool

Ha, I suppose I didn't look through the card set carefully enough. I figured all of the moves were only given to one Pokémon, but in that case Gen I seems to be fair game for this project.

Not finished, but the spreadsheet basics are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11i00Dh1HAII3hGc9rpr4R-ZRy9-VWjyCPFR8c8D_XBU/edit?usp=sharing
Every 25 mons I paste the guidlines just to be safe. Just did 3 slots for each now in case we have debates. Feel free to edit!

This is good stuff! I went ahead and finished the Pokémon lists, and may add a moves tab later so we can clearly see which ones still need assigning. I also put some signature moves next to Pokémon as I added them, but I didn't do them all. I'll probably finish that up later too using the list I put in the spoiler in my other post in this thread.

Edit: I also put a couple of non-signature moves on Gen VIII Pokémon, which I thought were obvious calls. Applin got Withdraw because it only has the option between that or Astonish, and Dreepy got Astonish because it's the only STAB move it gets by level-up (not a necessary predicate, but it fits better than Quick Attack, Bite or Infestation which are its other options). I gave Cursola Curse because of the reasoning in my previous post, and Centiskorch Inferno because its G-Max move has the same effect as Inferno and it learns Inferno upon evolution. Cramorant Dive because it triggers Gulp Missile and makes more sense for its design than Surf (birds can't swim, they can dive or float), Boltund Thunder Fang because the only STAB with Strong Jaw, and then Thievul and Eldegoss got the moves I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Scorpio]

This is interesting stuff, but there are some odd things here compared to the final game. For instance, this associates Gyarados with Waterfall when in Gen I it was the signature move of Goldeen & Seaking; Blastoise is associated with Spike Cannon when only Omanyte, Omastar and Cloyster could learn it; Super Fang is listed with Aerodactyl when only Rattatta, Raticate, Nidoran(F) and Nidorina could learn it; Smog is with Grimer when only Koffing, Weezing, Magmar and Flareon could learn it; and there are perhaps others that I haven't noticed as inconsistent off the top of my head. What was the source behind this material?

They know.

"Note that a Pokemon doesn’t even need to learn the move naturally to be associated with it. Some Pokemon might have even been designed along with their designated move, even if the move eventually ended up being used by completely different species.The connections are mostly formed through a combination of Pokemon’s gimmick or appearance and move’s name or effect – and the association is often strongly implied by lore, i.e. Pokedex entries.

The aforementioned Abra doesn’t learn Rest through level-up, but it is described as sleeping 18 hours a day, therefore its connection with the move is very plausible. Perhaps its Teleport-only moveset was a later idea. Gyarados is connected with Waterfall because of the Chinese myth this Pokemon references, and the list continues on. This prompts an interesting vision of Game Freak’s programmers working on Pokemon and moves hand-in-hand. "

 

[Sonikku A]

They know.

"Note that a Pokemon doesn’t even need to learn the move naturally to be associated with it. Some Pokemon might have even been designed along with their designated move, even if the move eventually ended up being used by completely different species.The connections are mostly formed through a combination of Pokemon’s gimmick or appearance and move’s name or effect – and the association is often strongly implied by lore, i.e. Pokedex entries.

The aforementioned Abra doesn’t learn Rest through level-up, but it is described as sleeping 18 hours a day, therefore its connection with the move is very plausible. Perhaps its Teleport-only moveset was a later idea. Gyarados is connected with Waterfall because of the Chinese myth this Pokemon references, and the list continues on. This prompts an interesting vision of Game Freak’s programmers working on Pokemon and moves hand-in-hand. "

So TMs fair game? That'll help some mons

 

[Celever]

They know.

"Note that a Pokemon doesn’t even need to learn the move naturally to be associated with it. Some Pokemon might have even been designed along with their designated move, even if the move eventually ended up being used by completely different species.The connections are mostly formed through a combination of Pokemon’s gimmick or appearance and move’s name or effect – and the association is often strongly implied by lore, i.e. Pokedex entries.

The aforementioned Abra doesn’t learn Rest through level-up, but it is described as sleeping 18 hours a day, therefore its connection with the move is very plausible. Perhaps its Teleport-only moveset was a later idea. Gyarados is connected with Waterfall because of the Chinese myth this Pokemon references, and the list continues on. This prompts an interesting vision of Game Freak’s programmers working on Pokemon and moves hand-in-hand. "

I think all of these are plausible, but no likelier than Pokémon who learn the move in the final game. Sure Abra is known for sleeping, but sleeping is a much more prominent part of Snorlax's design. Gyarados fits Waterfall thanks to mythological reasons, but so do Goldeen and Seaking. Aerodactyl doesn't have buckteeth (which seems to be what Super Fang uses) and Blastoise doesn't have spikes, either.

I more so meant to ask what the connection is between these Pokémon and these moves. Is there something in the code? Because if it's just speculation, I think there are some leaps in logic. But if it's in the code it can't be argued against.

 

[Scorpio]

I think it’s an educated guess on Helix Chamber’s part; read the article for more info: https://helixchamber.com/2020/04/01/rg-proto-move-analysis-part-1-mirror-move/

On the subject of moves associated with Pokémon that can’t actually learn them, the Eeveelutions should absolutely get their respective Eevee tutor moves #JusticeForFlareon

 

[CoolMan6001]

Nidoran(F) and Nidorina

They didn't learn Super Fang in gen 1. They only got it through the move tutor and only began to have it as level up in LGPE.

because its G-Max move has the same effect as Inferno

Did you mean to say Fire Spin here?

 

[R_N]

I think all of these are plausible, but no likelier than Pokémon who learn the move in the final game. Sure Abra is known for sleeping, but sleeping is a much more prominent part of Snorlax's design. Gyarados fits Waterfall thanks to mythological reasons, but so do Goldeen and Seaking. Aerodactyl doesn't have buckteeth (which seems to be what Super Fang uses) and Blastoise doesn't have spikes, either.

I more so meant to ask what the connection is between these Pokémon and these moves. Is there something in the code? Because if it's just speculation, I think there are some leaps in logic. But if it's in the code it can't be argued against.

Scorpio's right in that they explain their reasoning in the actual article.

Next comes the interesting part. From around 116 (Focus Energy) and certainly from 118 (Metronome) up until the end of the list are moves that are seemingly disorganized and in random order – just like pretty much any further addition to the movelist in each new generation. Moves aren’t lumped together according to effect or animation, let alone type. As it turns out, this part of the move list has moves that each can be associated with one Pokemon – similar to signature moves (we’re going to use that term as a shorthand for this concept from now on). In fact, they follow the Pokemon index list. For example, moves in the range 150 to 156 (Splash, Acid Armor, Crabhammer, Explosion, Fury Swipes, Bonemerang, Rest) can be clearly associated with Pokemon from Period 4b of the index list (133 Magikarp, 136 Muk, 138 Kingler, 141 Electrode, 144 Persian, 145 Marowak, 148 Abra). The same is true for the majority of this portion of the move list, with only a few exceptions – some of which can be explained by the data in the prototype assets. We will make sure to cover these in detail.

it's basically educated guessing based on how this part of the final movelist happens to line up with the pokemon index list. I don't think it's too outlandish a theory, really. We already know gen 1 got shaken up several times, ironing out moves and what went to who goes hand in hand.

Super Fang, in particular, might have originally been actual fangs. Aerodactyl has very prominent teeth & jaw on its sprite...

and of course those get mentioned in its dex entry

A ferocious, prehistoric Pokémon that goes for the enemy's throat with its serrated saw-like fangs.

It was also at some point a 100 base power move before getting transitioned to its new effect.

The original animation was also just standard hitting sprites, rather than the unique "buck fangs" chomping animation it would use gen 2-on.


So to me it's definitely probable that Super Fang may have been concieved with Aerodactyl, before they thought it would fit the Raticate line more, probably since it had more prominent teeth.



That said we probably don't need to adhere too deeply to it. Plans changed for some of these moves and many new moves have been introduced since then, but it's a nice reference point for some of these.