What is better: Scyther or Scizor?

[soadrocker856]

I am debating whether or not to evolve my Scyther.

Here he is:

Scyther - leftovers/life orb (not yet decided)
Technician
Jolly
6 hp/ 252 attack/252 speed
-Aerial Ace
-X-Scissor
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance

Aerial ace is an amazing move. STAB + Technician = 120 (or 135?) base attack. That is amazing considering it will never miss. Brick break is to counter any rock types that would try to sweep it. Works really well against DD-Tars that would expect to survive an X-Scissor and come back to OHKO with a stone edge. Swords dance is self-explanatory.

Would it be worth it to waste a move slot for agility if I want to sweep with a Scizor? And would it be worth losing a lot of win with my pwnage aerial ace?

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

It really depends on what you want or need for your team. One obvious problem with Scyther is his 50 percent weakness to Stealth Rock. However, he is faster that Scizor and can generally use technician better.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Scyther is more sturdy thanks to it's Steel type, which might let it survive longer and able to survive a hit of an Electric, Rock or Ice move that Scyther might not. Having one weaknesses help too.

Scizor also happens to have 394 Attack, which it can afford to use Adamant as it's speed isn't anything you would +personality anyways. Swords Dance up and just use Quick Attack as your main move.

 

[Lee]

Jolly is a brilliant nature for Scyther, but an awful nature for Scizor.

Adamant Scizor hits 229 which outruns Adamant T-tar and Bulky Gyara quite nicely. Jolly Scizor hits 251 which outruns nothing of any worth. Breloom perhaps, but there's no way he'll stay in.

Jolly Scizor can function as a Choice Scarfer though as the nature allows him to outrun things like Infernape, Starmie and even Alakazam. Adamant cannot do that.

 

[Great Sage]

This is kind of an apples and oranges argument. Scyther is a fast sweeper that is fragile, but makes better use of Aerial Ace+Technician because of STAB. Scizor is more durable but slower, but Life Orb+Technician+Swords Dance+Quick Attack can hurt a lot of faster stuff, which as a rule tend to be less stable. Choose which fits your team better.

 

[Derek(PUK)]

Scyther is UU material, scizor is OU material. Not saying end of discussion, just saying they're in different tiers and both are good in there respective tiers.

 

[agusganog]

Scyther is fairly good at sweeping, especially with Jolly nature (and swords dance), while Scizor can take a hit and then strike back hard. Scizor is also a very bulky baton passer.

 

[soadrocker856]

It really depends on what you want or need for your team. One obvious problem with Scyther is his 50 percent weakness to Stealth Rock. However, he is faster that Scizor and can generally use technician better.

I have a RSing Forettress willing to do away with stealth rock.

I might just go ahead and breed an adamant Scizor. I am keeping my scyther for UU battles and my Scizor for OU battles. I am probably going to add agility in place of SD. You guys gave me some good ideas for a new Scizor, and for that, I thank you.

 

[lincarnate]

Scyther is a great UU sweeper (too many Bug resists and too many Pokemon with >105 speed in OU) while Scizor has many options in OU (Baton Passing, walling, sweeping). I plan on using a Jolly CB Scyther with U-turn/Aerial Ace/Brick Break/Pursuit on my UU team and one day working the Swords Dance-Quick Attack Scizor onto an OU team. They're different Pokemon and should be used as such.

 

[Thunderpup]

Scyther is UU material, scizor is OU material. Not saying end of discussion, just saying they're in different tiers and both are good in there respective tiers.

Well, scizor is BL and he fits in there better, in OU he's alittle bit harder to work with. I know, I've ran him.

Jolly nature screams scyther. It's really good for a scyther, and in UU, he's torn apart some teams, I know, I almost got swept by one.

 

[Blazeback]

Scisor is probily the better way to go, because the technician would work better with him and he looks coolier!

 

[soadrocker856]

Scisor is probily the better way to go, because the technician would work better with him and he looks coolier!

Technician does not work better with him. There aren't any moves that would benefit from technician, besides getting in a finishing quick attack. And if cool translated to better, than we'd never have to see another blissey again.

 

[X-Codes]

Scisor is probily the better way to go, because the technician would work better with him and he looks coolier!

The only Steel move Scisor gets is Iron Head, which doesn't work with Technician. His only bug moves, U-Turn and X-Scissor, are also already over 60.

Scyther's Flying-type + Aerial Ace is far superior Technician fodder.

 

[soadrocker856]

Metal claw would get the technician boost, but isn't as good as iron head. And iron head has a 30% flinch, which is pretty damn helpful.

 

[The Notorious B.I.G]

Metal Claw and Fury Cutter work with it. I'm not Sure on How Fuyr CUter works, though.

 

[soadrocker856]

Metal Claw and Fury Cutter work with it. I'm not Sure on How Fuyr CUter works, though.

Fury cutter is a bug form of rollout. For every consecutive hit, the BP increases.

 

[Gmax]

Fury CUtter is too unreliable. The power will increase over 5 turns, but it has a 90% acc, and if you miss the move goes down to its initial power again. Plus, if the opponent switches in a Bug resist like Skarm/Forry, you'll be forced to switch out, resettingthe cycle to 0.

EDIT:Not at all like Rollout. Rollout is continued for 5 turns until it misses, while with Fury Cutter you can change the attack in between. And beaten.

 

[soadrocker856]

Well the basic idea of increasing power for every landed shot is the same.

 

[Forsety]

Scizor hands down.

Two words. Stealth Rock.

Its virtually ruined Scyther. However if they weren't around it'd still be the age old debate of what you prefer. Scyther has overwhelming speed, one hell of a painful Aerial Ace, great attack, baton pass and great buffs.

Scizor has sturdiness lack of general weaknesses and ridiculous attack and able to use recovery effectively and Baton pass again.


Though Scyther being fragile is a rather large misconception considering it has base 80 in both defenses. Too many weaknesses would be more correct since I've seen it survive T-bolts, Ice Beams on a regular basis through its good defenses alone.

 

[The_Rider]

Scizor is a lot harder from the physical side along with some awesome resistances thanks to the steel type however lack of speed and a reliable move to abuse technician really lets him down I'm not saying his bad that's just the way to tell it. Scyther on the other hand suffers from a horrible typing bug and flying is really bad and although it's defenses are a bit below average it can still benefit from it. STAB Aerial Ace+Technician boost hurts what it can and that good speed also gives him an edge over Scizor

 

[GonE]

With that nature definately go with Scyther.

 

[Re$Ullus]

I think the general consensus is that scyther is more for the UU environment (that I don't find as stealthrock-happy as OU btw) and scizor for being a tricky/risky move in OU.
Yeah, I agree.

 

[Forsety]

UU isn't exempt from Stealth Rock...alot of things learn Stealth Rock opposed to the 5 odd pokemon who learn Spikes.

If anything Stealth rock is a bigger threat in UU since majority of Pokemon fell short in performance because of SR in the OU game. Most of the pokemon within OU are either neutral or resistant to SR.

 

[TSPhoenix]

Well since neither are that bad defensively what about moves like Roost and Counter? They also get Light Screen but tend to think they have better things to do.

 

[Forsety]

Counter/Roost could certainly work with Scizor at least giving its typing and stats and neutrality to Rock/Ground/Fighting. But with Scizor it may just be more effective to run a bulky EV spread, 2 attacks + Roost + Swords Dance as generic it maybe.

It could work with Scyther to an extent helping lessen the impact of SR with a sorta...bulky Scyther.

Scyther @Leftovers or Light Clay
Technician w/Jolly
HP-80, Atk-36, Def-176, Spd-216
-Roost
-Light Screen
-U-Turn/Brick Break
-Aerial Ace

The setup is relatively simple. Even with only 196 s.def after a single Light Screen it boosts its s.def to over 392. Roost can help you scout, stall and recover from SR damage. The speed gives enough for 330 which beats neutral 115 and beneficial 100's and even neutral Garchomp.

Leftovers is if you really are desperate for extra healing but Light Clay is more ideal if you want to U-Turn out and pass off the boost to someone even stronger. Aerial Ace for its strongest STAB, Brick Break if you want better coverage in exchange for less power.

As for damage calculations here is a few basic ones using standard spreads.

Threats- After Light Screen-
Chain Chomp Fire Blast- 38-45%
Chain Chomp Draco Meteor- 33-39%
Modest Starmie Boltbeam- 38-39%, 19-22% w/Roost
Modest Starmie Surf- 29-34%
Lonely Electivire T-bolt- 43-51%

I haven't bothered with PorygonZ since they're almost always scarfed rendering Roost useless against Boltbeam. If your still curious on the damage than Modest 252 will do 24-28% after Roost.

CSHera Close Combat- 17-20%
CBHera Close Combat- 26-31%

Scyther afterall enjoys switching into Hera and scaring it off