What if Pokemon Conquest had a competitive metagame?

[Mathy]

After several cycles of asking, not getting a definitive answer, and then not caring for a long time, I've finally decided to post this in OI, because it will attract the most relevant crowd here. But, mods, please feel free to move this topic to GL if you don't think this is the place.

Pokemon Conquest is rather overlooked as a Pokemon spinoff. Part of it may be due to just how silly it sounds: Pokemon controlled by Samurai Warriors on a Fire Emblem battlefield? But, Conquest managed to find a happy medium between the complicated SRPG and the simple battle system of Pokemon, and created something really special. It's a game I still go back and play today. But I only ever owned one copy (and I've always been an introvert), so I never got to try out the PvP battles. Maybe someday...

In the meantime, let's theorymon! I've been wanting to do this for a while with my brother Low Quality Teams.

Overview of PvP
Let's start by discussing what the multiplayer format has to offer. Although I can't play it for myself, I have found what may be the only recorded footage there is on YouTube of the multiplayer format. Based on this footage, apparently:

• Players can choose to fight at whatever Link level they have their Warriors trained to, or to set the Link level. The latter option is still capped off by the Warrior's compatibility (Ranmaru+Dragonite in 100% Link mode would still only be 90%). AFAICT the former option would only be relevant if there were FEAR-like strats, but I can't think of any, so just treat 100% mode as being the same as no cap.
• Players can fight on any of the first seven kingdoms (though for theorymonning we can consider the other kingdoms as well), and can be either the attacker or the defender. (P1 chooses both of these options.)
• Players can choose any Warriors currently in their gallery, in any order. (They are not put in Gallery order as they would be during story mode.)
• Energy at the start is always set to the neutral level, and Warriors can't have items. (This is verifiable just by looking in your Gallery.)

Our first ruleset
A good metagame shouldn't give power to one player to decide the battlefield and roles. But a central ladder should cover as much as possible within the game. The best compromise I can think of is to have these aspects decided at random for ladder battles, and after teams are selected. So, we can define a standard "Ubers" metagame as:

Teams
Choose any 6 warriors with any 6 compatible Pokemon, at any link percentage that is legal with each Warrior. Energy is always at its neutral level, and there are no items. Match
After teams have been chosen and a match has been made, one of the first seven kingdom battlefields is chosen at random. Then, roles of attacker/defender are given at random. Whoever fulfills the win condition for their role is the winner.

So, what to ban from OU?
Nothing past this point is going to be definitive, as most of the meta is untested. Also, most text from here on out will be adapted from Low Quality Teams' analysis of OU, linked below.

For now, let's ban:

• Pokemon: Dialga, Reshiram, Zekrom, Arceus, Rayquaza. These are all the "overpowered" legends except Groudon and Mewtwo. Those two can be used, but as you'll see below this won't be much of an issue.
• Warriors: Kenshin Rank II and Shingen Rank II. +1 Range/Atk, and +1 Atk/Def, respectively, for 3 turns for the entire party, is just way too much power.

OU has no other restrictions.

OU Top Threats
These Pokémon are so powerful that they will shape the metagame, and they will make it worth bringing Pokémon that aren’t otherwise very useful to counter these big threats.

OU Top Threats

Staraptor​

Staraptor is possibly the strongest threat in the tier. Its 4 range and flying type is incredibly useful for traveling around crowded fields and finding the best points to attack. Its ability, Vanguard, combined with its above average attack stat and extremely powerful move Brave Bird make it capable of dealing out extreme damage. As if that weren’t enough, Muneshige II’s warrior skill Typhoon boosts the whole team’s range and attack.

Haxorus​

Haxorus has the highest non-legendary Attack stat in the game. But to take it a step further, it has Outrage, a move that would be decent just hitting once but actually hits two or three times in one turn! In addition to this, it also has Impact as one of its perfect link warrior skills, which results in a one-time basically guaranteed flinch on something it can’t kill. The other option is Mighty Blow for raw power.

Darmanitan​

Darmanitan has an incredibly powerful move, with a very big range that makes it easy to spread tons of damage on many targets. If your accuracy is too much of a problem? Use Warrior Woman, to not only boost speed so you can easily hit just about anything but also cause targets to flinch, a powerful concept with a move that targets 7 tiles at once. What really makes Darmanitan outstanding, though, is its ability Conqueror. The high-powered move with the ability to make it flinch things makes it pretty easy for Darm to get one KO, and from there its Speed will no longer need to be boosted by a warrior skill. Another ability option, Spirit, is almost just as good, effectively almost doubling its very high HP.

Other Good OU Teammates

Other Good Teammates

Jolteon​

Jolteon’s 3-tile hitting Thunderbolt may not appear to be an excellent spread move, but with Player III’s Motivate combined with its 4 range, it can put heavy damage on many Pokémon in a single turn. It also has Vanguard, which helps it deal decent damage when not boosted by the skill. Its biggest downfall is its bad bulk.

Gallade​

Gallade functions as a vulture meant to pick off weakened targets in order to get a Conqueror boost. Marksman as a warrior skill helps it accomplish this, also allowing Gallade to boost Psycho Cut’s good crit rate and also let it easily hit things with much higher speed before getting the Conqueror boost. Gallade’s biggest struggle is not being able to win many 1v1 matchups to get its boost, but its potential is great.

Gyarados​

Gyarados has great bulk when it can pull off Intimidate, and it also does decent damage with Aqua Tail. The knockback from this move can be helpful in various scenarios. Its typing, flying ability, knockback, and Intimidate or Frighten make Gyarados somewhat of a utility Pokémon good for weakening opponents around a close range attacker.

Chandelure​

Chandelure deals excellent damage with its high attack and strong Fire Spins. It doesn’t have the best speed, making it not super reliable for hitting several targets. What makes Chandelure stand out is Kanbei II’s Extinguish, an easy way to get rid of threatening multi-turn Warrior skills. Neither of these traits alone would be highly useful, but together they make Chandelure a solid pick.

Lucario​

Lucario is decent in the fact that it is a fighting-type attacker that isn’t weak to flying or psychic. It is also the only fighting type with 4 range, thanks to Sprint. Faith might seem like a redundant skill when you already have a move that never misses, but the support potential is extreme for Pokémon that are extremely powerful but a less-than-accurate move is the only thing holding them back.

Metagross​

Metagross is a solid tank with few weaknesses, Tadakatsu II’s Unrivaled takes its great Attack and Defense to insane levels. One big problem with using Metagross is how its 85% accurate Meteor Mash is further limited by its below average speed. It severely struggles with fire types, as well as steel resists, both of which are fairly common.

Hydreigon​

Hydreigon is essentially an airborne Haxorus with a lot less power. Levitate is a great gain from this trade-off, and Hydreigon is also a bit bulkier. Ambition is an excellent skill to pair with the multi-targeting move Dragon Pulse, but the reason Haxorus is top tier and Hydreigon isn’t is because Hydreigon has a significant fighting weakness, and the fact that despite how it can make bulky targets that live Dragon Pulse flinch, it doesn’t have an option to completely nuke a resist.

Machamp​

Machamp is another prominent holder of the Conqueror ability. It doesn’t have many good ways of raising the middling accuracy of Cross Chop, which makes it less useful to use than Darmanitan unless considering type matchups; there are multiple things that Machamp will beat that Darmanitan won’t. Machamp, like anything with Conqueror, has massive potential if it gets a KO, but unlike Darmanitan it will struggle with resists and fast targets.

Conkeldurr​

One might think that Machamp and Conkeldurr would play virtually exactly the same, but that would be incorrect. Conkeldurr is meant to take several hits with its ability Spirit, and then also be able to completely nuke a single target with Chesto. While its purpose is completely different from Machamp’s, its matchups against other Pokémon are essentially the same.

Alakazam​

Alakazam is a decent glass cannon, somewhat like Jolteon. But instead of having longevity in dealing big hits with an ability like Vanguard, it has more longevity in staying alive, with its ability Life Force and Kanetsugu II’s Love & Honor. It is the psychic type with the most immediate power, and unlike Gallade which preys on a good matchup to earn very high stats, Alakazam is more immediately useful in neutral matchups but isn’t meant to stay on the field for quite as long.

Sceptile​

Magoichi II’s skill has the potential to boost Leaf Storm to nuclear levels of power if you build your team around it right (Lots of girls!!!) You might think that the amount of already powerful Pokémon that happen to resist grass would push it out of viability, but the real reason the Cupid nuke is so good is that it is easy to hit multiple targets thanks to Leaf Storm’s attack range. This can easily make Sceptile make 2-for-1 trades with the enemy team, as anything neutral won’t be living, and even more frail resists will have trouble surviving. The biggest thing that keeps Sceptile out of extreme viability is that this nuke is the only thing it can be used for, making it ineffective late-game or at any point one Cupid has been used.

Empoleon​

Empoleon is unique is that it gets all the great resistances that come with a Steel typing, with none of the losing to every fire type in existence. It of course needs more than this to be considered good, but it certainly delivers with Elegance giving 100% accuracy Hydro Pumps as well as a highly nifty extra bit of range that lets it easily choose the best place to attack from to hit the most opponents in the most optimal manner. Empoleon’s biggest struggles are fighting types, electric types, and anything that resist water, since 1v1ing a resist would result in not being able to use your own resistance effectively, since you both take damage at the same rate.

Excadrill​

Another steel that tries to not lose to fire types, but uses blistering offense instead of bulk and fire neutrality to do so. Adrenaline as a warrior skill to raise Attack, as well as the highly offensively powerful ability Run Up allows it to dish out tons of damage to even neutral targets, and very easily KO electrics and the many other types weak to ground. Excadrill’s biggest problem is that it struggles with the bulky fighting types and, of course, any flying type or levitating target.

Braviary​

While offensively it has no chance of outshining Staraptor, Braviary is possibly the best support Pokémon in the tier, with Masamune II’s One-Eyed Dragon, boosting range of the user and all adjacent allies by 3, for 3 turns. This could easily let a ton of your Pokémon get the jump on the enemy team by flying in from a distance, allowing for one or two early knock-outs if executed perfectly. Even later in the battle Braviary is useful, as Sky Drop acts as a good support move to get a dangerous Pokémon temporarily out of the picture while you bring in something that would otherwise be crushed.

Volcarona​

Volcarona is an outstanding fire type, with a fighting resistance and a ground neutrality to make it stand out from other fire types. It is one of the best fighting counters, with its good bulk, resistance, and Flame Body ability to burn the majority of contact-move using fighting types. Kabuki Dance is an extremely good skill, being one of the only to boost Energy, which defaults to neutral at the start of link battles. What keeps Volcarona from top tier with these insane qualities? Just the amount of fire-type competition, and its incredibly awkward move range.

Terrakion​

Terrakion manages to be decent even though it doesn’t have an outstanding ability like other fighting types. Carefree is the niche that it has, even though it can’t hit several targets, it at least gives it very high attack as well as a very useful flinch effect. Terrakion is also the only fighting type to resist fire, and ignores all of Darmanitan’s Conqueror boosts with Sacred Sword. Finally, it is faster than all the other fighting types, meaning you will never feel obligated to run Ranmaru II or get pummelled by RNG.

Articuno​

Articuno is the best Ice type available due to not being weak to fighting, and having exceptional bulk. Blizzard is super good for hitting many targets, especially with Cold Eyes guaranteeing every one of them gets hit. Ice is very good offensively, as it is the only type that is strong against both flying and dragon, home to two of the most threatening Pokémon, as well as other important things you would want to take care of. Articuno’s big problem is that while it is good at crowd control, it isn’t quite as useful in 1v1 setups where its below-average attack stat shows itself.

Gigalith​

“Gigalith? Where’s Tyranitar?!” you say. Sure, while Tyranitar’s stats are better, the reason to use Gigalith is that it gets Marksman from a perfect link, so it can fix its Stone Edges to actually hit while T-tar cannot. The other stat improvements from Tyranitar aren’t worth the lack of 3 turns of never-missing bliss. Having a rock type is useful if you have coverage for fighting types (which is easy because Staraptor), since you take care of flying and fire types in one team slot. All you have to do is find a workaround for its terrible 2 range.

Luxray​

Don’t get me wrong, Thunder is a garbage move. But the reason to use Luxray is because it synergizes well with Staraptor, if Muneshige II’s Typhoon and Ginchiyo II’s Thunderclap are used in the same turn, it’s +3 range and +3 attack to the whole team. Luxray’s not any good of an attacker when you consider things like Jolteon, or even Raichu, but at the very least Luxray dishes out decent damage in the opportunities that it can get the proper distance from an opponent and land the hit.

Espeon​

How could you top cool Conquest-exclusive abilities like Spirit, Conqueror, and Celebrate? Share. That’s how. You get the benefits of all of your allies’ warrior skills, even if they normally only affect the user, regardless of your field location. Espeon seem really weak with its horrible move Psybeam, but look past it. Espeon can use Cupid. Espeon can use Chesto! Espeon can use Unrivaled! It can even do it all in the same turn!

Gengar​

Ninjutsu is a great skill to make Gengar a 4-range flier like Staraptor or Braviary. You might think that this ghost type would be terrible at beating psychics due to its weakness to them, the big ones are frail enough to the point where Gengar is fine as long as it gets the first hit. Where Gengar really shines is being a true, 100% counter to all of the fighting types. Even the birds that are super effective are only neutral to their strong attacks! Get you a ghost who does it right.

Samurott​

Why use this instead of Gyarados? Conqueror. Its stats aren’t that much lower, and its multi-target move lets it somewhat back itself up even when surrounded by enemies. But really, that’s all that can be said in its favor. While squeezing a water type and a Conqueror sweeper into one sounds good on paper, Samurott needs tons of help, or good type matchups, in order to get one kill to make its stats only on par with Gyarados. Only use it if you are really good at leaving enemies at low health for it to pick off, or if you don’t have space for both a water and a Conqueror abuser and super want to use both.

Scizor​

With the number of fire types that are either high tier or really helpful utility, you’d think ol’ Scizor here would never find a home. While the high concentration of many-target hitting fire types is true, a Scizor in the hands of a proper player will be able to control their moves in such a manner where Scizor never has to face a fire type, to where it is then a useful ally. It still needs back up once fire is extinguished, however, since it won’t leave a scratch on any bug resist, most of which can return with neutral damage.

Scrafty​

Every fighting type brings something unique to the table, and this one may lose to the other fighters but is also immune to psychic and resistant to ghost, making it a bit easier to use in some situations. Despite this, it lacks the power of something like Conkeldurr or Lucario, and even with its good bulk and Spirit as an ability, it still won’t be as useful in the matchups you would expect your average fighting type to easily dominate.

Umbreon​

Umbreon’s extremely tanky, which is great if you’re assigned defender. But unlike other Pokémon you would give that designation, Umbreon has potential to hit hard alongside a partner due to the ease of boosting Assurance. It also has 4 range like the other eeveelutions, what holds it back is its typing not being useful defensively on its own, and is also pretty bad offensively.

Points for Further Discussion
I reiterate, by no means is this a definitive guide to any competitive aspect of Conquest. Because we only own one copy of the game, we haven't been able to try out the meta, and I can't make some sort of simulator of Conquest because we lack crucial information, namely the damage formula, and the chances of various random events happening. So a lot of this thread is to have a fun discussion about what these meta would be like.

• Although choosing map and role at random seemed the fairest to me, it may mean that many battles are decided by RNG before they even begin. Is there an alternative to this randomness that still keeps the ladder fun to play? Is it possible to add customization to the ladder in some way, or should this be kept to unranked battles?
• What notable teambuilding strategies do you foresee? For example, would a 90% to 98% Warrior-Pokemon pair potentially be viable among 100%s? Might it be viable to run 2 of the same mon on different Warriors?
• What Pokemon do you think would be used in OU enough to be banned from the next tier down by usage?
• Who has the advantage, the attacker (moves first each turn) or the defender (able to stall out the turn counter)? The defender may be able to resort to running away or tanking attacks to out the turn counter. Do you see this being viable on any of the battlefields?
• What other metagames could be implemented? Imagine a simulator like Showdown, where the battle mechanics can be bent to our will.
• Is Simisear secretly the best Pokemon in the game?

In addition to this forum thread, we have created a Discord server where we hope to foster a community. You can join our Discord server here!

Further Reading
Conquest OU Threatlist and Viability Rankings, written by Low Quality Teams
List of Pokemon and Max Stats, c/o Low Quality Teams

 

[Ironmage]

Glad to see somebody else remembering this game exists. I keep thinking that it needs a sequel with how easily megas/Z-moves could be integrated (item that changes the warrior skill to the mega/Z-move, probably limiting Z-moves to either of a mon's STABs).

It is worth noting that it is possible to get groudon and mewtwo with rank 1 Shingen/Kensin (I actually did this on my cartridge, due to using excadrill over rhyperior). I'm not in a position to say whether they would be overpowering with only Rally/Bustle, though.

I'm in much the same position in terms of experience (i.e. lots of single-player time, no multiplayer time), but here's my thoughts on the various maps:

Spoiler

Aurora: Likely leans towards attacker advantage, due to the movable logs giving an extra advantage to going first (being able to set up the map how you want). "Tall" AoEs are going to be useful since you can hit a target with both a log and the move itself.

Ignis: There's a strong chokepoint if the attacker is short on fliers/Fire-types/groudon, not that that's super likely with how good several of those are. If I remember correctly, there is some kind of pattern to the falling rocks, so it's not likely to be a massive disadvantage for fire-weak mons.

Greenleaf: I think of this one as defender advantage, because its the only one I have really had risk of timing out against the AI. Forced movement is better here than most banner stages due to all of the traps right beside them.

Fontaine: The gates serve to mitigate the first-turn adavantage, but do not really produce enough of an obstacle for time pressure to be a real concern. Likely the closest to a pure deathmatch the kingdoms get.

Violight: Lots of chokepoints for non-fliers/Electrics, though there will likely be spreading out and ranged attacks regardless. You'd most likely need two Electrics to actually hit something with the triggered traps, and that's not going to be likely. Like Ignis, I believe the timed hazard has a pattern to it.

Chyrisalia: I don't know if the traps in set locations or random. I don't think this makes camping in your starting area a good idea for the defenders, since the center also offers extreme-range weaponry. Given the prevalence of AoEs at higher levels, I would imagine there would be a lot of ball-based damage going on. Since surviving seems so tough, I'd imagine this would be biased towards the attacker

Pugilis: A map highly dependent on mobility. I would imagine that the banners are only held if one side already has a noticeable advantage. Hard to tell which team starts off in a better position.

Illusio: Definitely defender-biased. Because of how the cubes and portals work, the initiative goes to the side that needs to move the least, and there's likely to be a few turns burnt if the attacker tries to send in a lot of mons.

Terrera: Going to be interesting with the first gust occurring the first time anybody gets on the lift. The fact that it is ground-typed damage does make thing interesting for the big-hitting fire-types.

Cragspur: Likely defender advantage due to requiring multiple fliers to not take damage from the boulders. I suppose theoretically the fact that they are more spread out could be a problem for them.

Viperia: Given the massive pool of poison next to the central banner, it's likely to be more team-dependent than attacker/defender bias.

Yaksha: I can't really imagine this being all that fun. The only noteworthy thing is that somebody's going to be fighting a 5v6.

Avia: Definitely defender-biased. If you ever get to a point where you have a flyer and the attacker doesn't, you can go to a corner that is impossible to reach and just wait it out.

Valora: While a human opponent likely isn't going to be stupid enough to get completely locked in, the difficulty moving around and the defenders starting together likely gives them the advantage.

Spectra: Oh god the RNG

Nixtrom: Staying in place certainly has advantages on this map, though there's a lot of turns for how quickly the distance can be closed. Hard to say who has the advantage

Dragnor: Since the hazards only really come up in calculated plays and scenarios involving forced movement, I'm tempted to say this one is normal first-strike advantage on the attackers.

 

[silly worm]

Groudon and Mewtwo would not need to be banned since play is at the highest link possible for each Warrior/Pokémon combination, and Groudon and Mewtwo with Shingen I/Kenshin I respectively only go up to 70%. There'd be no reason to use Mewtwo at 70% compared to Alakazam at 100%, so that's the biggest factor in why they weren't banned.

 

[Baconfry]

I think a much more diverse and healthy metagame will appear if you cap maximum link at 70% (or at the very least, 90%). For one, Leaf Storm/Outrage/Brave Bird will actually apply their drawbacks, leading to more strategic considerations. And warriors will be less predictable: you might see Ginchiyo using Samurott, or Motonari using Gallade, for example.

I believe a good start would be a 70% capped match, with each side consisting of 2 warlords and 4 regular warriors. Or warlords capped at 90% and regular warriors capped at 70%, perhaps? At any rate, a metagame in which only Perfect Links are used would become stagnant very quickly.

 

[Ironmage]

I'm not a fan of partially restricted availibility like a 2 Warlord limit, but as someone who likes more options, I can definitely support a lower level in this case. 90% with Warlords and 70% without does seem like a good plan.

 

[Ransei]

Hi someone showed me this thread. I've spent hundreds of hours playing Pokemon Conquest in the past, if not at least 1000, and have 100%ed the game all throughout. Over the past year or I've brought up discussions about a competitive Pokemon Conquest metagame in a PS! room, although that was mostly AG/Ubers. Here are my thoughts about if Conquest had a competitive metagame

Assuming this is to be OU, I have some takes on what Pokemon and even maps should be banned, because some maps are just too uncompetitive. This is my idea of it

Banlist
Pokemon: Groudon, Dialga, Mewtwo, Reshiram, Zekrom, Arceus, Rayquaza, Crobat
Warriors: N/A
Maps: Terrera, Avia, Valora
Items: Guardian Charm

The banlist for Pokemon is mostly straightforward. Almost all of them are "Uber-level" in this metagame. However Crobat was added. I think Crobat should be added to the banlist because it has the combination of speed and range to stall out turns in most of the battlefields and will dominate banner maps when it's not stalling out turns. Crobat has the highest evasion stat in the game (speed) and the highest range in the game by far (6) when stacked with Shadow Dash, its natural range, and Flying-type. Crobat is not good at hitting but the combination of its assets allow for this Pokemon to fly halfway through entire maps in a single turn and quickly avoid getting hit by everything. If anything comes close to it, Crobat has a high chance of dodging their attacks. Under worst case scenario, Nene can use Nene Nimpo to have Crobat dodge all attacks for 1 turn and escape. Since Crobat has a natural range of 4 (higher than nearly everything in the game), it can easily prevent the opponent from catching up to it. Crobat can easily give the defending side way too much of an advantage by cheesing around most maps and stalling out the max turns the attacking side to win with, therefore having this Pokemon around would be too unfair.

To explain the map bans
Terrera - afaik this is the most uncompetitive banner map because the game is strongly determined by when sandstorm arrives to blow away everyone on top of towers. There's an immediate disadvantage that goes to any army that climbs up such towers first and even after that the sandstorm arrives again pretty randomly iirc. Personally I'm not sure if there is a way to work around that. If the army doesn't outright lose after this then the game is still largely favored on either side by when sand tosses Pokemon off those towers. If the offensive side avoids them for too long, it could be an automatic win for the defending side.

Avia & Valora - These maps are too big and will easily allow for Pokemon of high ranges, especially Crobat, to cheese all the way around it and stall out the maximum amount of battle turns for the attacking side to win. Valora in particular is extra uncompetitive because in a case where you have to face off in a 1v1 ending, one player could use the robots there to fish the other player to get caught by them and end up somewhere far away from them, maybe even softlocking them for the rest of the game.

Item bans
Honestly I haven't really paid attention to items at all with the exception of a few, however the Guardian Charm is the one I noticed most. It is an item that increases Attack and Defense stats by 3 stages and range by 1 stage if the holder is the last one standing on their team. I've used this item in the game to be able to tableflip matches that the Pokemon would stand no chance in fighting otherwise and it is immensely broken for the boosts it's given. Especially if it's given to the likes of Darmanitan, who increases its Attack stat further and fully restores its HP if it falls down to 33% or less the first time, it could easily win games and be overbearing.


Stuff to look after for potential bans
Pokemon: N/A
Warriors: Yoshihiro, Oichi
Maps: Greenleaf, Pugilis, Spectra, Nixtorm

Warriors
Yoshihiro's main Pokemon is a Conkeldurr, which should not look very threatening at first because a Conkeldurr normally does not, however it has one of the highest attack stats in the game and Yoshihiro's Chesto skill raises its Attack by an additional 2.5x in one turn. Especially when combined with various items, its Superpower move, and other warrior skills, this is the single-hardest hitting Pokemon in the game overall and I fear this thing would hit targets way too hard to be allowed in an OU Conquest tier. It would already be one of the greatest Pokemon in an AG Conquest metagame because it is the single best answer to the horrifyingly busted Arceus but from experience I've also seen this Pokemon manage to OHKO stuff on even level that resist its Superpower attack. The defense drops aren't even that much of a drawback as Conkeldurr can still sometimes take an attack, making it all the more concerning. Chesto! warrior skill can let Yoshihiro's Conkeldurr OHKO nearly everything in the game that isn't Ghost-type to be honest, or come close, which is quite immensely scary.

Oichi has a godsend warrior skill called Soft Light. This restores her entire team's health by 100 and cures them of their status. A type of situation that would be too good to drop out in most OU situations regardless of Oichi's ace being a Wigglytuff. Sure while Wigglytuff sucks, Oichi is one of the few warriors who can be highly usable with 90% link Pokemon. Chandelure is great. Haxorus is great. Munna has an overlooked niche. She's able to whip out Jolteon and use (although nerfed) Staraptor. There are lots of feasible options she can use in order to get her way.

Greenleaf - This map is too centralized around using Flying-types or very long-ranged attackers and is just outright uncompetitive otherwise. The traps surrounding each banner are unpredictable and can end any side's chances of winning entirely if they're unlucky enough to step into two of these. High caution is required for nearly all non flying-types when going near these banners and something can easily fall trapped more than one time in a row.

Pugilis - This map is also too centralized around using Flying-types or long ranged attackers because otherwise one side can easily knock the other off the ring and then block both entrances with their remaining Pokemon to stall out 5 turns and win. Only Flying-types and long-ranged attackers can work around this I think.

Spectra - Anyone who has played Conquest saw this coming. Spectra is very notorious for its will-o-wisps inflicting any sort of hax on any side whatsoever. I don't think this map is outright uncompetitive because of the great amount of measures you can take to restore your Pokemon's status or even prevent them from getting it (Oichi is a godsend and Jigglypuff Charm allows her to soak wisps) but the amount of situations you can get haxed in here is something to look after. The statues are also very annoying.

Nixtorm - This map is very large and heavily catered to Ice-types and Flying-types (yes nearly every map that gives a huge advantage to something also gives a huge advantage to Flying-types and other maps only give Flying-types a huge advantage). Most other Pokemon just slip and slide around and have limited range, while Ice and Flying-types can move freely wherever they want. This combined with the size of the map could allow for various high ranged Pokemon to stall out the maximum amount of turns for the attacking side to win, but I haven't really looked through this map intensely enough to have a full opinion on it.

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I thought about a Conquest Ubers metagame (was thinking AG at first but honestly some of those maps really need to be banned) and I came up with a VR for warlords, which I may discuss more of later especially if people have any questions

Conquest Ubers/AG Warlord Viability Rankings

This VR is specifically for the attacker's side. I realized I would have to make a VR for the attacking side, the defending side, and for banner maps for the VR to be accurate because how good each of these warlords are vastly depends on each.

For example, Nene would be significantly higher on defending maps and in banner maps. Nobunaga could shockingly be a little lower in kingdoms trying to defend themselves.

Lucario honestly sucks in this game but Ranmaru is extremely high for his warrior skill, Faith, which ensures all attacks from teammates hit for three turns in a row. This is incredibly valuable especially at 100% link as Pokemon with higher speed like Mewtwo can dodge many attacks otherwise. Unfortunately I don't think this ensures you hit Arceus LOL. Ranmaru also has some good 90% pairs on his own like Infernape and Conkeldurr.

Shingen is not on the same rank as Kenshin because Groudon has a range of 2 which really sucks and its signature move Earth Power is also not great because Flying-types dominate the game. Kenshin tends to be overrated by many people because of how powerful Mewtwo is, but having a large group of Pokemon completely wall it is a huge liability and Mewtwo isn't necessarily bulky. If it gets hit by Pokemon supported by items and/or warrior skills, it can get one-shotted by super effective moves from many Pokemon.

Kanbei's warrior skill is insane as it shuts down all active warrior skills. When the game revolves around warrior skills then this is quite grandiose. Chandelure is also a really amazing Pokemon in this game so it's all the better for Kanbei.

I overlooked Keiji for the longest time and he's not high because of Terrakion at all. Terrakion is outclassed. The reason why Keiji is high because his warrior skill is described as this - For 4 turns, raises Attack by 1 stage, and the Pokémon's move has a 50% chance to make targets flinch. This on top of insane 90% link picks like Darmanitan, Infernape, Hydreigon, Volcarona, Machamp, and although nerfed, Haxorus, can make him an absolute beast in the battlefield if used properly imo.

Arceus and its warlord would be the definitive tier for defending kingdoms, but lower in attacking kingdoms because Arceus does not do the most damage and can fall short of making KOs a lot of the time.

That's all I have for now.

 

[Mathy]

While our server has been silent for over a year, some more developments have emerged since this was posted with regards to how the game works and how the metagame should be.

I do have a couple responses to the above.

Playable Maps
As a matter of fact, all maps are playable in a link battle, not just the first seven. That was a naive assumption I made based on the only footage I could find of Conquest's multiplayer.

Anyways, here's my thoughts on each map:

every map

Aurora: It's small enough that the defenders don't have an insane advantage. Though some might say it's so small that the attackers have an unfair advantage. I suppose "how small is too small?" is an open discussion.

Ignis: An interesting map because it's the only one where Fire-types are given a terrain advantage. But for anything that isn't a Fire-type or a flier, this map is extremely congested, not to mention the fire pillars that come and go as they please, and the random fireballs that can completely snipe you if you're unlucky. It's these factors that I think Ignis should be banned.

Greenleaf: While 4-range fliers will dominate the metagame on most any map, Greenleaf is especially notorious as its layout is very abuseable by the attacker if they brought enough high-range mons. Plus the traps are always in really stupid places and are a mechanic that's just terrible for a banner map. Ban this one.

Fontaine: This is a pretty balanced map and I don't have much to say about it, except that I'm not sure what's the point of the singular fountain that sprays you.

Violight: The terrain layout is so congested that some Pokemon are simply unable to attack. I think this one should be banned similarly to Ignis.

Chrysalia: While the fencing traps are a bit uncompetitive, there's nothing unbalanced about this map and the balls are fun to kick around.

Pugilis: Again, 4-range fliers will dominate the metagame on any map, so their advantage isn't really a reason to ban any of them. Pugilis is quite balanced on the attacker/defender divide, actually -- it's practically impossible for one team to get all the banners straight away. Two teams with diverse fliers and non-fliers make for an interesting game.

Illusio: Absolutely awful map with luck-based portals and needing to manage the moving platforms. Defender will get so many free wins from this, ban ban ban.

Terrera: Fittingly the polar opposite to Illusio, a banner map where the attacker is heavily favored. This is due to the fact that the sandstorm always happens after the defender's turn, giving the attacker a free chance to get the banners. The defender does have a potential counterplay, and that's to hyper guard one tower's elevator. Whether this is even possible is an open question, because I've never tried it in an actual competitive setting. The existence of this strategy doesn't make the map balanced, though, so this one should be banned.

Cragspur: Watch for falling rocks. If not for their existence I'd argue this would be a fairly balanced map, but alas, the defender just gets free chip on the attacker most of the time. Although, this does punish a lot of 4-range fliers. Not sure on this one honestly.

Yaksha: Although it has an obviously uncompetitive gimmick, the map itself is very balanced, with a sweet-spot size for a combat map similar to Fontaine.

Viperia: Another banner map that's quite balanced, actually. And the layout is fun to play.

Avia: Far too wide-open and the jump pad mechanic just makes this free for defenders. There's even a cheese island that a 4-range flier on the defending team can fly to and can't be caught by anything but another 4-range flier. Ban.

Valora: An ugly and congested layout, with the cranes being the icing on the cake for an extremely defender-favored map. Ban.

Spectra: Honestly the problem with this one isn't the wisps (they're quite easy to avoid), it's the statues. Those things will move in the worst possible way and potentially trap the attacker, forcing them to waste several of the 15 precious turns this map has. Ban.

Nixtorm: Pretty much unplayable by anything that's not Ice or a flier. Ban.

Dragnor: Balanced layout and admittedly has one of the less-annoying gimmicks.

On Crobat
Not sure how it completely eluded us that Crobat was the expert staller. Regarding its Speed stat, now that we actually know the accuracy formula we can put things into perspective.

If you are 50 points slower than something, that could result in up to -22% accuracy with max Charisma stats. If you're 100 (or more, it caps here) points slower than something it could go up to -46% accuracy. Really the only thing that reliably catches Crobat would be Jolteon and even that would struggle a lot.

 

[pika pal]

One thing I'm on the fence about is what effect randomizing the "sides" for a match would have. Some Pokemon seem like they perform much better on Defense than on Offense (most immediately Fly-Stallers like Crobat, and also low-power Support Mons/Warriors like Oichi). While both sides benefit from Firepower to remove opponents from the battlefield, free turns or a lot of survivability options like Defense or Evasion increases feel bias to the side that just has to "not lose" until the time limit is up.

I haven't done nearly as much analysis on how PVP or the balance between Warriors or Maps would work in this game, but this was one point of the initial postings that I'm curious about. Maybe these aspects were considered and deemed acceptable when the idea was first put forth, but I do think it presents an interesting point.

 

[SubChampion_Iris]

do u want my input? in a few words let me tell you some broken stuff.

Fire spin. goes on for quite awhile I think like 5-4 times.
Motochika + Samurott is broken with their abilities.
Serperior would make for a really GOOD stall because of how many spaces it goes.
Oichi anda few tanky mons are good for healing.
then ina who is pretty strong