What do you think of e-begging?

[Cresselia~~]

E-begging is when people beg for money online, for whatever reason, without going through a charity. The beggar receives the money directly.
There are also beggars who ask for items instead of money, such as begging for video games.

There are many forms of e-begging.
There are some that gives you nothing return, and there are some that promises some artwork in return.
Some have a Youtube or Twitch channel, and whilst they wouldn't give you anything physical in return, they might type your name if their next video or so.

Some of these would say clearly what the money is for, such as breast augmentation surgery. Others may not really say what the money is for.

There is also a growing trend of them highlighting their disability (or being LGBTQ+), and put that on the first sentence of their fundraising page.

=============

My main issue is that there is no control of what they spend the money on, after you've given them money.
There's also no way to know whether said person really has the disability they claimed.
It is also more difficult to tell whether the person really is poor, compared to physical begging. (With physical begging, it's more difficult to fake it.)

But that said, I just think that if you have internet access, you probably aren't homeless (yet)
And if you aren't homeless, and that you really have said disability, you probably are entitled to some sort of social welfare/ disability grant/ benefits, etc.

Some people told me that I should be more supportive towards content creators, but I personally don't see why I owe them.
Most budding Youtubers start off working a normal job and use their free time to do youtube, and slowly switch to a part time job, before being a full-time Youtuber.
(I heard it's difficult to survive on youtube nowadays, but can they not sell merch or give merch in return, instead of giving nothing in return?)

I also dislike the idea of begging for video games or breast augmentation surgery, because they are clearly not a necessity.

Some people complain that I'm being insensitive towards the needy, but I just don't feel that anyone owes them anything.
I also don't like how some people think that just because they are disabled, you owe them money.

 

[Divine Retribution]

"Video games and breast augmentation surgery" is one thing. What about people who crowdfund cancer treatments or other similarly necessary procedures? What about people who crowdfund money after some kind of disaster destroys their house? Or to raise money for someone who just lost a family member? Or even to raise money to develop a game, or any of the countless other legitimate uses of crowdfunding?

I'm assuming you accept that some forms of crowdfunding are legitimate, and working on that assumption, where do you draw the line between legitimate crowdfunding and "e-begging", and what standards are we using exactly to determine one from the other? I'll agree with you on one thing; people should absolutely be honest about what they're crowdfunding for (I don't know the relevant laws but I'm pretty sure lying about the reason you're trying to raise funds is illegal in most countries, and certainly against the TOS of pretty much all crowdfunding sites), but assuming they are being honest, I don't think anything should necessarily be off limits. If some idiot wants to give someone money to buy video games or for breast augmentation surgery or whatever, so be it. It's their money, it's their choice.

 

[Cresselia~~]

"Video games and breast augmentation surgery" is one thing. What about people who crowdfund cancer treatments or other similarly necessary procedures? What about people who crowdfund money after some kind of disaster destroys their house? Or to raise money for someone who just lost a family member? Or even to raise money to develop a game, or any of the countless other legitimate uses of crowdfunding?

I'm assuming you accept that some forms of crowdfunding are legitimate, and working on that assumption, where do you draw the line between legitimate crowdfunding and "e-begging", and what standards are we using exactly to determine one from the other? I'll agree with you on one thing; people should absolutely be honest about what they're crowdfunding for (I don't know the relevant laws but I'm pretty sure lying about the reason you're trying to raise funds is illegal in most countries, and certainly against the TOS of pretty much all crowdfunding sites), but assuming they are being honest, I don't think anything should necessarily be off limits. If some idiot wants to give someone money to buy video games or for breast augmentation surgery or whatever, so be it. It's their money, it's their choice.

Ya, I think some forms are acceptable when some are not.
I would say that if you absolutely need something, such as cancer treatment, disaster relief, then it's completely fine.
Crowdfunding for things like developing a video game also sounds acceptable to me, if they have already showed screenshots of their developing game. (Provided if their price is reasonable?)

What I don't like, is that people who claim to be disabled, whether real or not, who act like you owe them.
Or like, if they ask for money to buy things that are not necessities, or rather basic things but they gave you a high price for it.
Such as a disabled person asking for a certain blanket that is way more expensive than regular blankets.
(And that said blanket is not related to the disability, it's just him/ her wanting it. )


Frankly, I didn't know that lying about fundraises were illegal. How often do people get caught?
If people really get caught, why are there so many call-out sites on the internet?

 

[dice]

poor people deserve leisure. poor people deserve wants. poor people deserve fun.

crowdfunding is one of the few options to survive under the unabating grasp of capitalism for many folks. shaming how they seek funding in times of desperation, and, god forbid want something nice, is patronizing as hell. pointing toward breast augmentation (which is often necessary to help dispel dysphoria for many people) and "video games" (fringe as hell.. really? i never see this on twitter and it seems like you're emphasizing this to make a sweeping disavowal) & whatever else as evidence is so silly. do you not give money to the homeless too unless you can track how they spend it? this attitude is insufferable. let people live. they are not the problem.

as an aside: direct giving is far more effective than giving to non-profits ever is. we should, in fact, support this practice.

 

[Cresselia~~]

poor people deserve leisure. poor people deserve wants. poor people deserve fun.

crowdfunding is one of the few options to survive under the unabating grasp of capitalism for many folks. shaming how they seek funding in times of desperation, and, god forbid want something nice, is patronizing as hell. pointing toward breast augmentation (which is often necessary to help dispel dysphoria for many people) and "video games" (fringe as hell.. really? i never see this on twitter and it seems like you're emphasizing this to make a sweeping disavowal) & whatever else as evidence is so silly. do you not give money to the homeless too unless you can track how they spend it? this attitude is insufferable. let people live. they are not the problem.

as an aside: direct giving is far more effective than giving to non-profits ever is. we should, in fact, support this practice.

No I don't give cash to the homeless.
I give them food and other items.

Poor people deserve wants.
Ok.
But where do you draw the line?
What if he's asking for a $500 watch or so?

 

[Kink]

Read everything. On the same page as dice. This is where your personal sentiments can dictate what to support. Your values are your own, and you can choose those initiatives accordingly. Getting mad at someone to support video games or breast augmentation has little meaning, better to get mad at Republicans getting funded by the NRA, where true ethical dilemmas exist.

When something isn’t clearly right or wrong and instead you need to rely on personal sentiments to make a justified belief or judgement, you should take a step back and not project those values onto others.

 

[earl]

As long as they’re not actively going out of their way to ask me (I’ve never been approached or asked to give before) I don’t really care. If their is someone who I believe is deserving of my money I’ll give it to them

 

[Surgo]

and there are some that promises some artwork in return.

This is what we like to call a "transaction". It's not begging.

 

[vonFiedler]

The people who said that youtube/twitch/influencing couldn't be turned into a career are the same ones who call anything like patreon etc e-begging. Some blatant over the top jealousy coming from people who got tricked into working standard desk jobs and are still too taken in by "capitalist values" to place their anger correctly.

 

[Surgo]

I don't think anyone itt has mentioned Patreon at least. Nobody thinks that's begging, right? At least I hope not.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I don't think anyone itt has mentioned Patreon at least. Nobody thinks that's begging, right?

I wouldn't be so sure

Some have a Youtube or Twitch channel, and whilst they wouldn't give you anything physical in return, they might type your name if their next video or so.

Some people told me that I should be more supportive towards content creators, but I personally don't see why I owe them.

Imagine thinking people should make videos for you for free

 

[Surgo]

I've patreoned up Martha Wells (an author) and the Tiny Snek Comics guy. Because you know what they'd do if they didn't have that income stream? Stop working on the stuff I enjoy and get a different job. But I enjoy that stuff and want them to keep making it.

 

[billymills]

I kinda like "e-begging".

It's kinda similar to the micro-transaction model implemented in the gaming community, so it's obviously going to be successful.

Some people donate as appreciation for existing content, some in the promise for new content, and some just for cosmetics. I like that it can be de-centralized. I don't control what business owners spend their money on when I buy something at a store, so I don't see the problem that I can't control what they spend it on.

 

[internet]

People ask because it works. People give because they want to. I am not sure where the issue exists, or what could even be done if there was one.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I wouldn't be so sure



Imagine thinking people should make videos for you for free

Youtube videos are not free. They get money from ad revenue.
It's not enough for a living, but I know many Youtubers who work part time or even full time BEFORE their Youtube channels provide enough for a living. (And I have already posted this in the OP)

I used to be a Youtuber too. I didn't beg for anything.
(Am I actually stupid for not begging anything?)

You just want to add things onto my posts to make me look bad, and I see that you are doing this all the time.
Stop it.

I don't think anyone itt has mentioned Patreon at least. Nobody thinks that's begging, right? At least I hope not.

Patreon has rewards.
The content creator has to do something in return.

 

[HailFall]

I don't like seeing the "pay for my operation" posts. It just stresses me out and makes me feel guilty over not having money to spend on things like this. I do think it would be a lot better to do this through a reliable charity, so they can ensure the money goes to people who need it, and it isn't a big scam.

Generally I think the same principle applies as real life begging. It's an obnoxious, disruptive, and emotionally manipulative behavior and paying them only encourages it.

If you're going to beg for money for a medical procedure, I need to be 100% sure it's not a scam and you've exhausted all possible avenues for help.

 

[internet]

Patreon has rewards.
The content creator has to do something in return.

in principle, patreon is a pay what you want model where subscribers can pay what they think the content is worth. creators are not obligated to offer rewards and many still get patrons while they don't.

the thing the creator does in return is make the content in the first place.

 

[EV]

My main issue is that there is no control of what they spend the money on, after you've given them money.

Unless you're receiving a service or product in return (in which case we're not talking about e-begging like Surgo said above), a "donation" for a cause should be viewed as a gift. And gifts, in my world, are unconditional. As soon as the money trades hands, whatever the recipient decides to do with it is now their prerogative. Expecting the recipient to exist in some form of indenture is not how giving should work.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Unless you're receiving a service or product in return (in which case we're not talking about e-begging like Surgo said above), a "donation" for a cause should be viewed as a gift. And gifts, in my world, are unconditional. As soon as the money trades hands, whatever the recipient decides to do with it is now their prerogative. Expecting the recipient to exist in some form of indenture is not how giving should work.

Gifts are unconditional, yes.
But if you saw someone funding for , say medical equipment, then spent the money on something luxurious (such as a designer's bag)
Would you give him money the next time you see him funding?
Or do you feel it's completely ok?

 

[internet]

literally nobody in this thread is in favor of charity scams. please stop thinking anyone is in favor of charity scams.

 

[tcr]

E-begging is the exact same as real begging only you can reach a bigger audience. I don't see how one can take differing stances on panhandling like that unless one views street begging as a "lower class" form of commerce due to internet access. I think that is laughable due to the amount of areas that offer 'Free Wifi', especially in large population cities that hold the population of those who would beg.

My main issue is that there is no control of what they spend the money on, after you've given them money.
There's also no way to know whether said person really has the disability they claimed.
It is also more difficult to tell whether the person really is poor, compared to physical begging. (With physical begging, it's more difficult to fake it.)

But that said, I just think that if you have internet access, you probably aren't homeless (yet)
And if you aren't homeless, and that you really have said disability, you probably are entitled to some sort of social welfare/ disability grant/ benefits, etc.

This is really ignorant, even from you Cresselia~~
Not only can you not know what people spend money on if you give money on the streets, you also have no way of knowing if they really have the disability anyway, and yes, you can "easily fake being poor." There are numerous stories of panhandlers who go out in ragged gear to grift money out of people.

The whole "if you have internet access you aren't homeless" stereotype to me rings up the old conservative adages of "oh they have a phone, they must not be really poor" or "oh they have a refrigerator they must not be really poor" (source). Being "poor" doesn't have a quantifiable gatekeep, just because they have access to the internet somehow doesn't mean they aren't really struggling, and it's being condescending to think that. As to your 'disability' skepticism, there are many disabilities that simply cannot be seen physically, or don't have the signs pointing to how they have the disability. Mental health problems, social disorders, even 'hidden' disorders like a fucked up back that prevents hard labor (most low education level jobs) can all prevent people from being able to make their own money.

 

[Cresselia~~]

literally nobody in this thread is in favor of charity scams. please stop thinking anyone is in favor of charity scams.

So you are suggesting that charity scams are rare?
If not, how do you prevent charity scams?
Do they get caught at all?

 

[Cresselia~~]

E-begging is the exact same as real begging only you can reach a bigger audience. I don't see how one can take differing stances on panhandling like that unless one views street begging as a "lower class" form of commerce due to internet access. I think that is laughable due to the amount of areas that offer 'Free Wifi', especially in large population cities that hold the population of those who would beg.


This is really ignorant, even from you Cresselia~~
Not only can you not know what people spend money on if you give money on the streets, you also have no way of knowing if they really have the disability anyway, and yes, you can "easily fake being poor." There are numerous stories of panhandlers who go out in ragged gear to grift money out of people.

The whole "if you have internet access you aren't homeless" stereotype to me rings up the old conservative adages of "oh they have a phone, they must not be really poor" or "oh they have a refrigerator they must not be really poor" (source). Being "poor" doesn't have a quantifiable gatekeep, just because they have access to the internet somehow doesn't mean they aren't really struggling, and it's being condescending to think that. As to your 'disability' skepticism, there are many disabilities that simply cannot be seen physically, or don't have the signs pointing to how they have the disability. Mental health problems, social disorders, even 'hidden' disorders like a fucked up back that prevents hard labor (most low education level jobs) can all prevent people from being able to make their own money.

Ok. Thank you for explaining. Now I understand a bit more.

As you said, scams exist, and how exactly should we prevent them? (on an online setting)

 

[internet]

So you are suggesting that charity scams are rare?
If not, how do you prevent charity scams?
Do they get caught at all?

These questions are unrelated to the point i was making, which is that nobody in this thread supports charity scams.

People are fine with people asking for money with transparency, because there is nothing wrong with it.

People are not fine with scams.

Is there something difficult to understand about this?

It might be unfortunate that you can't really prevent the scams beyond people staying informed and wary, but they're ultimately not that harmful. People will only really donate what they can miss.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Youtube videos are not free. They get money from ad revenue.
It's not enough for a living,

You're correct. They are also not free to make. I assume you don't use adblock? And you are correct, it's not enough for a living. If you do YouTube full time, you need additional revenue streams to pay for it, beyond adsense. This is accomplished by patreon, YouTube premium, twitch donations, etc. I assume you don't do any of these, given your stance on "e begging"'. Do you only watch YouTube creators who do this as their side job? Cause if you watch people whose full time job is online video creation without supporting them in some way, you're counting on others to do that instead.

know many Youtubers who work part time or even full time BEFORE their Youtube channels provide enough for a living. (And I have already posted this in the OP)

I used to be a Youtuber too. I didn't beg for anything.
(Am I actually stupid for not begging anything?)

This is irrelevant. If you make YouTube videos as a hobby, that's your choice. If you want to make them full time, that's your choice as well. If you want to enjoy professional level videos, that's your choice and you should chip in to support these creators making content for you. If you are content to only watch hobbyists, then go right ahead.