I disagree. For a start fairy is such a good offensive type it hits so much for neutral, and isnt resisted by alot. Since vgc is 2v2, theres always something for flutter mane to aim at, and hence its lead matchup isnt weak. Ontop of this booster flutter is the fastest relevant pokemon in the game, and you can invest enough bulk in it so only the strongest physical stab attacks can OHKO it - e.g. wogerpon's Ivy Cudgke doesnt usually OHKO, neither does something like incineroar flare blitz, so it can usually get at least 2 strong attacks off
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VGC 2024 Regulation F Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter LovelyLuna
- Start date
Power level, Iron Bundle
's 124 SpA with 70 BP Freeze-Dry just does not cut it anymore, and Speed Booster Flutter Mane 
is better if you're looking for Icy Wind speed control, thanks to the Fake Out immunity and hitting a lot harder. Though a lot of it is also probably to do with Raging Bolt 
and the rise in Fake Out on teams thanks to Incineroar 
.Bundle was also hit pretty hard by the introduction of AV Rillaboom, which could threaten an OHKO with grassy glide. During reg D and reg E rillaboom was really popular since it checked urshifu-RS really well, which was bad news for bundle. Another pokemon that matched well into bundle was Iron Hands. Pretty much every team had either Iron Hands or Rillaboom in order to have some checks for Torn Shifu teams going around, which gave bundle less joy. I still think its a good mon, which can be used in niche cases.Power level, Iron Bundle
What are some predictions we have for dortmund?
Flutter is absolutely a win condition. Fairy is one of the best typings into the current metagame, very very few mons resist it and most are weak. Flutter with specs is a 135 base special attack sweeper with an almost 100 bp move in MB and being able to tera fairy.
Yes its good, heres my analysis on it. I am the Glimmora man, you can trust me
Predictions for Dortmund:
-gholdengo will rise in usage
-flutter will be at #1, with waterpon and incin at #2 and #3 respectively
-torn and mugulis will be the tailwind setters of choice
-p2 ting lu teams will pop up a lot
-trick room in general will be a preferred comp among a bunch of players, specifically p2 ting lu, farig + bloodmoon, and hattdeedee.
-kommo o looks promising into the meta as a tera user and as a setup sweeper. It’s been prominent on p2 ting lu comps but nowhere else. However, i think it could shine.
-balance teams are looking very good into the meta
-gholdengo will rise in usage
-flutter will be at #1, with waterpon and incin at #2 and #3 respectively
-torn and mugulis will be the tailwind setters of choice
-p2 ting lu teams will pop up a lot
-trick room in general will be a preferred comp among a bunch of players, specifically p2 ting lu, farig + bloodmoon, and hattdeedee.
-kommo o looks promising into the meta as a tera user and as a setup sweeper. It’s been prominent on p2 ting lu comps but nowhere else. However, i think it could shine.
-balance teams are looking very good into the meta
I can also see Hisuian Arcanine rise as an alternative Intimidate user
Basically what Leo said, especially with Rilla+AV and Urshifu. Raging Bolt can just Thunderclap Bundle, since its Special Defense isn't anything to write home about. Not only does Flutter do a lot that Bundle does (icy wind, damage and pressure), but Iron Bundle just doesn't have the bulk to compete with the power level.
Even Urshifu is above flutter! And gholdengo and ogerpon-h are making a appearance.
Yeah, though I'm not surprised that Urshifu-S would dominate the metagame with Urshifu-R out of the way.
Gholdengo and Ogerpon-H are finally in Top 12, and although I expected Ogerpon-H to get to Top 12, Gholdengo was quite unexpected.
First of all I really recommend Incineroar over Scrafty, as the typing, stats, and Parting Shot are positives difficult to pass up, Parting Shot makes switching into Ursaluna easier.
Your team looks weak into a well positioned Incineroar, especially when paired with Amoonguss, as your only special attackers are vulnerable to Amoonguss. Tornadus Flutter Mane also looks problematic, as you don't have good answers to Flutter Mane,. Tornadus with Covert Cloak can help remove Farigiraf together and can make it harder for Iron Bundle to dominate with speed control. It's a pretty good core though, a few changes (Tornadus > Iron Bundle, Flutter Mane > Raging Bolt.) help fix it up.
Ok so I have seen a lot of strong players (including myself although I am not strong) have picked up sylveon recently so I would like to talk about why.
Urshifu-S-S has become a massive meta threat. It's standard check is fairy types, though due to flutters ghost typing it can be inconsistent at this, especially if you want to use a tera elsewhere. This is especially prevelent on opposing tailwind teams, where urshifu ouspeeds flutter and threatens an OHKO. Sylveon doesn't have these weaknesses, so has a niche as a consistent urshifu checl. It also has positive match ups into other meta pokemon, including raging bolt, and although it does not have the same coverage as flutter mane, this is not as relevant an issue on a fairy type has so few resists.
Urshifu-S-S has become a massive meta threat. It's standard check is fairy types, though due to flutters ghost typing it can be inconsistent at this, especially if you want to use a tera elsewhere. This is especially prevelent on opposing tailwind teams, where urshifu ouspeeds flutter and threatens an OHKO. Sylveon doesn't have these weaknesses, so has a niche as a consistent urshifu checl. It also has positive match ups into other meta pokemon, including raging bolt, and although it does not have the same coverage as flutter mane, this is not as relevant an issue on a fairy type has so few resists.
Bro this prorably aint the place to be getting help with your team, instead try the vgc room on showdown. Also that play may not work, flutter will prob survive the bundle move, and if torn goes for say sunny day, your raging bolt is going to take massive damage
Stellar Tera Iron Bundle is questionable but Iron Bundle is so weak it doesn't do enough
252 SpA Tera-Stellar Iron Bundle Tera Blast (100 BP) (1st Use) vs. 220 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Flutter Mane: 104-122 (65.8 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is assuming you call the Tera correct, they have little reason to Tera so they could not and both your Pokemon are forced to take massive damage.
I don't think iron bundle is unusable. It has a really poor raging bolt mu, a really poor rillaboom mu, but actually if you tried to use it as a speed control mon on the right team it could work. If it used a defensive tera like grass it should be much easier to position, while its stats (although not great) are respectable. It can definitely fill a niche.
I’m sorry, OFFENSIVE TING-LU!?
If you haven’t been on ladder past few days, you may be shocked to even hear this. Ting-Lu is built to be defensive, with massive Defense and HP stats and an ability that effectively gives all Pokemon on the field a mini Assault Vest. This is a Pokemon who deals the most damage with Fissure and Ruination and now offensive sets are being popularized on ladder. HOW!?
I think I now, but first we need to know what this set is. Typically ran with moves Stomping Tantrum, Heavy Slam, Payback, and *gasp* Protect, this unorthodox offensive Ting-Lu is paired with a speedy Booster Energy Gouging Fire and a DEFENSIVE Ogerpon-Wellspring. My first encounter with this weirdo core was in a stream done by WolfeyVGC, where he participated in an online tournament using Magmar. His first lost in the tournament was to this offensive Ting-Lu set, something he blamed on not being prepared for Ting-Lu at all since the big moose hasn’t been a viable pick since Ogerpon became legal. I thought it ‘‘twas a one off, an elaborate farce, a strange team that made a major appearance once then fall to obscurity. But then, I was laddering in Showdown!’s Bo3 ladder when I encountered this very team, and lost to it since my team was hyper offensive and poorly equipped to handle this set of Ting-Lu that could take hits and deal massive punishment damage. But I thought, surely this is coincidence. Perhaps someone with the same idea or someone who also saw the stream. But then I saw it again, and again. I lost two tours in one day in the VGC chat room to the vile monstrosity that is Offensive Ting-Lu. I can’t reliably use Rillaboom or Ogerpon to take it out because of it’s Tera poison and partnership with Gouging Fire and Waterpon. Urshifu comes so close, but alas with the Tera doesn’t deal enough damage and fails to live hits. Breaking swipe and Tablets of Ruin cut so much damage from the opposing side that it’s difficult to remove these titans, and redirection only makes things harder. As of now, the offensive Ting-Lu only grows stronger and without some big play soon, we may see the return of the moose.
tl;dr Ting-Lu doesn’t just sit there anymore, he sits there and makes you question your life choices as he murders you.
If you haven’t been on ladder past few days, you may be shocked to even hear this. Ting-Lu is built to be defensive, with massive Defense and HP stats and an ability that effectively gives all Pokemon on the field a mini Assault Vest. This is a Pokemon who deals the most damage with Fissure and Ruination and now offensive sets are being popularized on ladder. HOW!?
I think I now, but first we need to know what this set is. Typically ran with moves Stomping Tantrum, Heavy Slam, Payback, and *gasp* Protect, this unorthodox offensive Ting-Lu is paired with a speedy Booster Energy Gouging Fire and a DEFENSIVE Ogerpon-Wellspring. My first encounter with this weirdo core was in a stream done by WolfeyVGC, where he participated in an online tournament using Magmar. His first lost in the tournament was to this offensive Ting-Lu set, something he blamed on not being prepared for Ting-Lu at all since the big moose hasn’t been a viable pick since Ogerpon became legal. I thought it ‘‘twas a one off, an elaborate farce, a strange team that made a major appearance once then fall to obscurity. But then, I was laddering in Showdown!’s Bo3 ladder when I encountered this very team, and lost to it since my team was hyper offensive and poorly equipped to handle this set of Ting-Lu that could take hits and deal massive punishment damage. But I thought, surely this is coincidence. Perhaps someone with the same idea or someone who also saw the stream. But then I saw it again, and again. I lost two tours in one day in the VGC chat room to the vile monstrosity that is Offensive Ting-Lu. I can’t reliably use Rillaboom or Ogerpon to take it out because of it’s Tera poison and partnership with Gouging Fire and Waterpon. Urshifu comes so close, but alas with the Tera doesn’t deal enough damage and fails to live hits. Breaking swipe and Tablets of Ruin cut so much damage from the opposing side that it’s difficult to remove these titans, and redirection only makes things harder. As of now, the offensive Ting-Lu only grows stronger and without some big play soon, we may see the return of the moose.
tl;dr Ting-Lu doesn’t just sit there anymore, he sits there and makes you question your life choices as he murders you.
i blame tempest bro
Ok, just wanted to say some stuff here.
We’re really seeing the meta develop, with a common Rillaboom+Raging Bolt+Landorus-I core as the most common balance core. I think the reason Snow won the Utrecht Special Event, and the reason it was even considered is because of this insanely common core. What do you guys think about this?
We’re really seeing the meta develop, with a common Rillaboom+Raging Bolt+Landorus-I core as the most common balance core. I think the reason Snow won the Utrecht Special Event, and the reason it was even considered is because of this insanely common core. What do you guys think about this?
I also think the reason why tyo's Articuno team won is that most people don't have an option for weather changing. Yeah sure we have Tornadus, but that can't fit on every archetype. Another reason why is that we don't have a lot of Ice resists. IK we have Incineroar, but other than, we don't have anything. 7 out of Top 10 Pokemon in usage are weak to Ice or weak to Freeze-Dry.
Could a Sandstorm team work? Yeah Tyranitar hates Rilla and Urshi, but Watershifu's is on the decline and Torkoal and Pelipper seem quite rare - Torkoal requires Trick Room support and Pelipper doesn't have many good rain abusers outside Archaludon.
Tyranitar's biggest issue is that its def typing is just so bad, although there is less urshifu-r it is still threatened by single strike and much of the metagame (rilla, ogerpon, lando etc.). Additionally, there aren't many good sand abusers. However, ttar still has alot working for it, good ability good stats decent movepool, I'm sure it could work on the right team.
As a sidenote a couple of my friends were using it + lycanrock on a psyspam team, so perhaps that could be a starting point if you want to teambuild with it.
ttar's old buddy excadrill is finally back at least