Venusaur (Sunny Day)

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QC: [0/3]
GP: [0/2]

Ok this is my first time doing one of these so please bear with me. I have been using this set a lot recently and it's been very successful.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: SolarBeam
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Doesn't completely rely on Ninetales support to pull off a sweep
  • Can easily beat all weather inducers with a well timed Sunny Day. For example, with a predicted Sunny Day this set isn't revenge killed by Choice Scarf Poiltoed and Tyranitar like other Venusaur are
  • With SolarBeam, this set has more initial power than most Growth sets (better revenge killer)
  • Sunny Day insures that SolarBeam retains its power / no chargeup to hit weather inducers
  • Sunny Day makes Venusaur a great asset to sun teams in a weather war by brining sun back after Ninetales is gone
  • Can also play a supportive role by putting stuff to sleep or simply passing sun to another sweeper if at low health
  • Hidden Power Fire hits any Steel-types hoping to switch in on SolarBeam. It also gets a "stab" boost in the sun making it a good attacking option.
  • Sleep Powder cripples switch-ins while Sludge Bomb offers secondary STAB and hits dragons for neutral damage
  • If you manage to get in a situation where Venusaur is outside of Sun and has activated the Sleep Clause, Venusaur's only virtually consistent and usable move is Hidden Power Fire, which may lead to prediction wars. For this reason Sludge Bomb is very tempting in the 4th slot
  • Life Orb is the preferred item since Venusaur will sometimes miss the boost from Growth. It also gives Venusaur the chace to OHKO standard Tyranitar with Sun SolarBeam. Leftovers is a good alternative for suvivability.

Additional comments:
  • The EVs grant maximum offensive potential
  • A Timid nature can be used to outspeed base 110 Speed Pokemon who hold a Choice Scarf, but the loss of power is noticeable
  • Other Hidden Power types can be used, but without Growth or sun boosting their power, they are usually underwhelming when you're looking to sweep
  • Hidden Power Ground or Earthquake can be used to hit one of Venusaur's biggest enimies Heatran, although they don't serve much purpose outside of this
  • Hidden Power Ice for Dragons
  • Leech Seed or Synthesis can be used over Sleep Power for survivability. Although not as effectively, Leech cripples switch-ins like Sleep Powder does, but with the possibility of healing up a teamate.

Teammates and counters:
  • Blissey and Chansey will always give Venusuar trouble with their massive special bulk
  • Heatran can switch in on an HP Fire and OHKO Venusaur with it's Flash Fire boosted attacks
  • Reuniclus and Latias can set up
  • Dragons in general will give Venusaur a hard time if lacking Hidden Power Ice
  • Ninetales is always a good teamate so Venusaur won't have to waste a turn setting up Sunny Day
  • Dugtrio and Wobbeffet trap Heatran, Blissey and opposing weather inducers
  • Offensive Fire-types that get boost from sun like Infernape, Victini or Darmanitian are great teamates. With their decent synergy shared with Venusaur, sun can usually be passed with ease.

Awsome Sunny Day Venusaur sweep by grimm70 (turn 15):
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Grimm70-vs-IFM--29-juillet-2011-at-23h46

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I've gotten in trouble by facing this thing a few times before. It might be worth noting that:
  • Outside of Sun and after activating the Sleep Clause, Venusaur's only virtually consistent and usable move is Hidden Power Fire, which may lead to prediction wars
  • Sludge Bomb is a completely arbitrary STAB, and I conclude that Sleep Powder is an arguably more favorable move there so it could cripple Dragon- and Fire-types.
  • Suggest a mixed attacking spead with a Rash nature and Earthquake in? (Heatran, Chandelure, even Infernape, and other Fire-types are huge problems for sunlight)
 
Venusaur needs Growth to sweep IMO. I mean, its so weak even with it! 100 SpA isn't cery impressive, and when you're using Solarbeam/ HP Fire as primary coverage it really doesn't help. Pokemon such as Heatran, Latias, Latios, Dragonite, and pretty much every dragon in existence walks all over this set.
 
Yea, the Growth set is devastating, but that set is already on SmogonDex. Like Brizznetz mentioned, this is more of a supporter set - as an author of Sunny Day Ninetales, you can attest how useful it is to have Sunny Day in one of the mon's moveslot to shift the momentum to your side (just watch Grimm70's match on the OP). This is why Leftovers is slashed, because it's not necessarily meant to pull a sweep - just bring back Drought and sleep something. Except Venusaur becomes much more threatening than Ninetales thanks to the Chlorophyll boost.
 
Hm. I think this set is a pretty good idea but I don't think it's fit for sweeping either. Why not considering using it as a support set, which is something venusaur is pretty good at. Sunny Day / Sleep Powder are the moves it must have. Then probably slash leaf storm, HP fire, sludge bomb and leech seed. Alter the EVs to a more defensive spread, probably using the subseed EVs or a variant of it. Use leftovers instead of life orb. This will allow venusaur to support sun teams even better. Slashing Heat Rock (or whatever it's called) could be possible as well.

without growth, venusaur has a hard time to sweep. I think a full support set would be a better idea. This will put the pressure off ninetales so you get a secondary weather inducer as a back up. In the sun, venusaur can wall bulky waters all day so ninetales doesn't have to be forced to take ~20% from random water moves. Using this as a support set may not seem too bad. Refer to NWO's sunny day ninetales as well. I think if you have them 2 on the same team, it'll be pretty hard to change the weather while those 2 spread status around with sleep powder from venusaur, WoW or toxic from Ninetales. This can potentially open a way for a sun abuser to sweep.

edit: ninja'd by Pocket! Lols.
 
1. As previously stated, Venusaur needs Growth to some serious damage, since it's offensive typing isn't great and it's offensive stats aren't great either.
2. I don't feel like this set warrants it's own set, maybe it simply deserves a slash next to the original set that's already in the dex.
3. Although Venusaur loses a little reliability with Ninetales, it's losses a very valuable moveslot, which can be used for Earthquake(to help check Heatran) or Growth.
 
Venusaur outspeeds everything mentioned above in the sun unless Latios has a scarf, so you can just sleep them quickly and have a crucial sun counter out of the way.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys :)

@ AG: great suggestions! I already have Earthquake in AC, but if others think it's good enough for a slash then I'll add it. Personally I don't like Earthquake on Venusaur, especially on a non-Growth set where it isn't even getting a boost. Sleep Powder and Sludge Bomb are much better options overall for me.

@ NWO: I've been debating on whether or not I should change the set name to just "Sunny Day" because people are overlooking it's supportive value and just focusing on how it can sweep compared to Growthsaur. Under sun, SolarBeam + HP Fire still have enough power to sweep a damaged team (just look at the replay). The checks / counters that you mentioned are simply put to sleep like Eggbert said. Pocket summed it up nicely.

@ Pocket: Good point concerning momentum shifting, I'll be sure to add something like that in the op!

@ sandshrewz: I don't think a full out support set with Sunny Day slapped on will be enough to differentiate it from the sub-seed set already on the dex. I think this set does a better job at setting up sun then a bulky set anyways. The offensive investment scares off opposing weather inducers and whatnot.

And thanks for editing the hidden power thing Oglemi :)
 
I don't see this as a sweeper nor as a threat seeing as that Dragons are HUGE on this metagame seeing as Dragonite is sitting at top in usage, Venasaur can't touch it especially if something is already asleep. You should probably run hp ice; also you might wanna take in fact that there is pther weather and you have to take that turn to set up an sunny day then get attacked most likely. This isn't that realible of a set especially a "sun sweeper".
 
Why?

Give Sunny Day an AC mention and call it a wrap this doesn't play any better or differently than what is already on there. Losing Growth is pretty huge. HOWEVER, if you don't run Growth, you are by default playing Venusaur as your revenge killer, which is fine. Although in that vain its probably better to use Synthesis over Sunny Day to take advantage of switch outs.
 
I agree with RaikouLover. I don't think this warrants its own set; it isn't very different than the sets Venusaur already has on-site. A simple AC or OO mention of Sunny Day's viability will suffice.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
<iconic> I agree with your rejection, man!

Moving. If you'd like to write up a sentence or two that explains Sunny Day's benefits, PM me and I'll add it into Venusaur's analysis (probably in Other Options).
 
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