OU SM OU Viability Rankings

[Clem]

(VR by Skypenguin and zinnias)​

Welcome to the official SM OU Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." You're encouraged to post your thoughts or opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in SM OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Ferrothorn can be ranked in the A+ tier as a supportive presence, Kartana can be ranked in the A+ as an offensive presence, and Toxapex can be ranked in the A+ tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Keep in mind that rankings are subjective and that your opinion is not a fact, but rather, you should use facts to support your opinions.

S RANK

S rank

Magearna

S- rank
Landorus-T
Toxapex


A RANK

A+ rank

Kartana
Mega Charizard X
Heatran
Gliscor
Mega Latias
Kyurem-B
Chansey
Tapu Koko
Tornadus-T
Serperior
Greninja
Ferrothorn
Ash-Greninja



A rank

Volcarona
Cresselia
Tapu Lele
Mega Diancie
Mega Medicham
Weavile
Kommo-o
Excadrill



A- rank

Mega Alakazam
Mega Mawile
Clefable
Rotom-Wash
Hawlucha
Manaphy
Mega Swampert
Mega Tyranitar
Tapu Fini
Victini

B RANK

B+ rank

Mega Scizor
Slowbro
Mega Lopunny
Mega Charizard Y
Garchomp
Seismitoad
Skarmory
Mega Latios
Tapu Bulu

B rank

Pelipper
Dragonite
Ditto
Hydreigon
Mega Slowbro
Kyurem
Zapdos
Gastrodon
Mega Garchomp
Celesteela

B- rank
Hoopa-Unbound
Mega Gyarados
Mega Heracross
Reuniclus
Thundurus-T
Mega Pinsir
Mega Sableye
Hippowdon
Jirachi
Magnezone
Keldeo
Volcanion

C RANK

C+ Rank

Gyarados
Tyranitar
Blacephalon
Crawdaunt
Moltres
Mega Aggron
Alolan Marowak
Alomomola
Necrozma

C rank

Mew
Mega Venusaur
Breloom
Amoonguss
Tangrowth
Gengar
Mega Aerodactyl
Krookodile
Bisharp
Kingdra
Mega Manectric

C- rank

Mega Altaria
Buzzwole
Pyukumuku
Mantine
Salamence
Bronzong
Alolan Ninetales
Azumarill
Suicune
Mega Gallade
Porygon-Z
Mega Camerupt

There's a few things I'd like you to keep in mind before posting:

• Take a moment to think before you actually post; if it's a relatively simple question such as "why isn't x ranked" then this isn't the place for it.
• Try to keep as objective as possible: Just because A is your favourite mon, it doesn't automatically make it a good mon

 

[gamefish32]

Kyurem Black: A- to A:

Kyurem black has already risen in the past from being a B+ to an A- Pokemon, but I really think the direction of this meta and it's maturation over the last year or so really indicates its incredible presence on teams. It's Icium Z set is potent combines with a way to deal with Toxapex, especially when using a +Attack nature (which I have been greatly preferring), it is able to almost always two hit ko Fully Defensive Toxapex even with black sludge recovery (94.9% of the time). It is also incredibly good at wearing down ash Greninja's checks, such as dealing with a Chansey that has had any chip, or typically a round of stealth rock damage, and Magearna with an Icium Z or a fusion bolt, being able to wear down cores just enough for potent sweepers such as Greninja and other late game sweepers to go on a rampage. It also works very well on all terrains, as it doesn't love priority moves, it gets a boost from electric moves from Koko (which is absolutely huge at eliminating the few checks that can resist it), and getting itself a bit of recovery with grassy terrain, which is paramount especially due to the fact that kyurem black can't afford to run leftovers, and often has to drop roost for coverage. It's ability to break holes is huge, and with proper prediction the icium z set can be deadly to nearly every single Pokemon in the tier. It's scarf and life orb sets are also potent in their own way, able to surprise Pokemon such as landorus-t from a safe u-turn, and also drawing in ice resistant Pokemon to hit them with an extremely powerful hidden power fire.

I think it really warrants a rise in this time in the meta, as it's bulk combined with it's sheer power is something extremely dangerous against any team.

Freeze Shock, Ice Beam, Fusion Bolt, Earth Power, Roost, Substitute, Hidden Power Fire

 

[galarian darmanitan]

Why were so many pokemon purged from the lower ranks?

 

[Icemann]

Why were so many pokemon purged from the lower ranks?

Sure some of those mons had theoretical niches but they were almost never used in real matches. Like yeah alolan golem technically can work because it can trap heatran, but that was last seen like in 2017. Was used with eject button pex iirc. Stuff like alolan wak, Uxie, and cresselia were strictly trick room mons, and were essentially next to non existent in tournament. Can't really think of the others, but they were terra bad

I am a bit surprised to see volcanion, terrak, and avalugg off the list though, I think they are wayyyyy better than something like ninetales lmao. Free latias while your at it

 

[Katy]

Sure some of those mons had theoretical niches but they were almost never used in real matches. Like yeah alolan golem technically can work because it can trap heatran, but that was last seen like in 2017. Was used with eject button pex iirc. Stuff like alolan wak, Uxie, and cresselia were strictly trick room mons, and were essentially next to non existent in tournament. Can't really think of the others, but they were terra bad

I am a bit surprised to see volcanion, terrak, and avalugg off the list though, I think they are wayyyyy better than something like ninetales lmao. Free latias while your at it

struggles a bit with the matchups in gen7 ou because mega-lati twins and garchomp as awell as bulky scarf landorus-t are really common, furthermore volcanions typing hinders it to do its job and it is tbh rather slow and therefore very prone to many top-threats in the metagame like gliscor, mega latios, mega latias, garchomp, rotom-wash and tapu fini. while it might look decent on paper in practical use it can't stand a chance to the many bulky waters and many bulky dragons as it has struggle getting past them. other fire-pokémon offer much more with coverage-options to actually do something in battles, like making progress during the battles; victini hits superhard with a stab v-create and volcarona has many coverage moves to break past threats and a boosting move in quiver dance and heatran is very reliable with a stallbreaking-set to trap pex or the protect-set to punish fast offensive threats like mega lopunny and mega medicham when they use hjk, furthermore tect allows it to scout choice-locked pkmn.

has the unfortunate metagame situation that a lot of threats can revengekill or punish it, lando-t is very common, mega lati-twins give it also a struggle and with the thrive of grass-types like serp, bulu and kartana it gets scared out very easily. furthermore faster offensive threats like ash-greninja, choice scarf-lando and bulky waters like fini it cant do much. pretty much all of terrakions sets are rather unreliable as it either wants the power boost from sd or the speed boost from scarf thus it eithr lacks the breaking power or the speed and it wants both of it.

no comment on it, was only used because of a very very few mons as a phys-def tank. not more not less.

still barely holds on with its niche of having access to a good speed-tier and snow warning + aurora veil in 1 slot. furthermore it can punish switch-ins with hypnosis and it has hail in its moveslot alot of times to summon the snow warning again to disrupt annoying opposing weather-situations. furthermore it can counteract to rain-teams with snow warning and a freeze-dry which hits the most common rain abusers like mega pert and kingdra for 4x damage and it also hits the weather-setter pelipper with 4x damage. thus its niche - even tho its very minimal - is still justified in gen7 ou.

 

[apesh!t]

why the fliping hell is ash geninja not in s tier

A lot of things being used right now handle it really well. Fini is on a lot of teams right now, pex is as good as ever, and bulu, Chansey, kommo, I’m sure I’m missing others are also good options. I honestly have the belief that it didn’t necessarily get worse, just the fact that it only has 1 set throughout the whole meta meant that people just learned different ways to play around it. Even if your team doesn’t have a wall to it you can still use its lack of bulk and the fact that it is forced to lock into a move to your advantage. Obviously it’s still a top 6 or 7 Pokémon that demands attention in the builder. It can flinch past a few of its checks, specs hydro is strong as shit even before evolving, and spikes are great. I think A+ is perfect for it.

 

[slayer21809]

why did rain lower in the viability rankings?

 

[Aegicrash]

This seems reasonable, although the fact the mega zard y is in the same tier as mega allade troubles me. I think that mega charizard y is a sold B.
also, mega pinsir is a mon iv'e had a fair share of success with, spamming return, eq'ing heatran, and using the appropriate hp for steela (or cc).

 

[Hawaii Express]

yeah, mega gallade isn't as near as mega zard y. zard y creates weather, has good spatk with good stab moves and solar beam plus reasonable speed.
megallade on the other hand, doesn't even have access to zen headbutt lmao, and is outclassed by mega dickcham

Mega gallade does learn zen headbutt though and while it may be true that mega medicham outclasses it, it still has a niche in its slightly higher speed stat, ability to learn SD, and that it can pressure bulky psychic types with Knock Off.

 

[Finchinator]

Mega Gallade functions as more of a win condition due to its higher speed and access to Swords Dance whereas Mega Medicham is a direct nuke. Mega Medicham is much better due to it not relying on being in multiple terms and being more tolerant of getting forced out by revenge killers due to the impact it can make over 1-2 turns. Mega Gallade would be better if we saw less Tornadus-Therian and Scarf Kartana all over the place perhaps, but now it is pretty limited in what it can do. Their current placements are perfectly reflective of their viability I feel (Mega Medicham in A/A- and Mega Gallade in B-/C+). I do not think either is particularly comparable to Charizard-Y, but unfortunately Sun archetypes never really took off this generation due to strong reliance on both Defog and Pursuit support, causing there to be very few viable teams with it. However, one Sun team with a couple Fire types has been used a few times and it could use a raise to B rank to reflect this perhaps.

 

[Clem]

S RANK

S+ rank

Magearna

Reasoning

Magearna is definitely the best mon in the metagame right now. Its incredible bulk alongside great defensive typing allows it to act as a great check to some of the absolute best Pokemon in the tier, namely Latias, Zam, Lele to some extent, and Gren if AV. Its offensive sets are incredible at sweeping as well, Shift Gear Magearna is a "pick your checks" kind of Pokemon with access to great coverage and strong z-moves, giving it options to deal with every single one of its counters if it's packing the move it needs. Heart Swap is my favorite set right now, mainly because it slams CM Zam and prevents Reuniclus (and other Bulky Psychics) to set up on Gear. The CMSplit invalidades stall simply by existing, and is great against Balance as well.

S rank

Landorus-Therian

S- rank

Gliscor

Reasoning

Gliscor being this high might come as a surprise for some people, but the bat is incredibly obnoxious to deal with without the right tools. Glis' SD SpDef set is absolutely stupid on balance teams, especially if backed up by tspikes to wear down its rare checks. Its pseudo-immunity to status, great defensive typing and outstanding bulk with investment allows it to live moves it shouldn't, such as Ice Beam from Clef, HP Ice from various Pokemon like non-Specs Koko, and even Z-Moves from the likes of Timid Tran. The Rocks/Defog set is great as well, since Glis' recovery and resistance to most passive damage allows it to repeatedly set-up or get rid of rocks depending on its set. I believe Gliscor is easily top 5, if not top 3 in the current state of the metagame due to its ability to reliably do its job and to stuff a lot of important Pokemon.

Mega Alakazam

Reasoning

I don't want to go into too much details about Zam being there, since I already talked about how broken Zam is in the SPL XII discussion thread

Toxapex
Heatran

A RANK

A+ rank

Kartana
Mega Mawile
Tapu Lele

Reasoning

Lele is a difficult mon to rank in a viability ranking because most of what makes it good is how much it limits teambuilding. Specs Lele has absolutely no switch in whatsoever. It hits extremely hard and your safest bet is usually to Pursuit trap it after scouting for the move it locks itself into, but that's mostly viable for Choice sets. Specs is a whole threat, but CM + Z or even AoA Mind Plate is stupid good. Lele's coverage is also excellent, it doesn't always utilise most of its options, but HP Fire is great for Scizor, Thunder / Thunderbolt smacks Celesteela and even Shadow Ball can be used for Bulky Rachi. Psychic Terrain it brings is extremely threatening when paired with Zam, making for very offensive Psychic Spam teams that are very difficult to deal with due to the very few poor matchups they have.

Tornadus-Therian
Ash Greninja
Serperior

Reasoning

Serperior is the most straightforward Pokemon in the metagame and most of what makes it good is its access to one of the absolute best moves in the game: Glare. With Paralysis support, Sub and/or Leech Seed, and the snowballing power of Leaf Storm, Serperior is able to win most if not all 1v1s against anything not named Ferrothorn or AV Tangrowth. I've seen SpDef Trans get 1v1 by Paralysis + SubSeed sets, but Serp's coverage options allow it to go with more immediatly threatening sets, like HP Ground or HP Fire sets. Nature Power is a fun option, although reliant on terrains to work properly.

Mega Latias

Reasoning

Mega Tias used to be, in my opinion, the best mon in the metagame shortly after Zygarde's ban. Its ability to deal with Heatran, Rain, and check Kartana makes it a very good and splashable options on most balance teams. Its sheer bulk makes it nigh impossible to OHKO without a super effective STAB move, making it difficult to Pursuit trap. Its offensive capabilities are also highly valuable for bulkier teams, its high BP moves backed up by an impressive 140 Special Attack make it difficult to switch into for most offensive teams. It can run a lot of different sets, from Defog to TWave/Wish Support, to CM Stored Power/Bolt Beam (esp on tspikes teams), making it an even more difficult mon to handle.

A rank

Volcarona
Garchomp
Ferrothorn
Mega Scizor
Mega Lopunny
Tapu Koko
Protean Greninja
Tapu Fini

A- rank

Manaphy
Mega Swampert
Pelipper
Mega Medicham
Clefable
Rotom-Wash
Celesteela
Magnezone


B RANK

B+ rank

Mega Latios
Kyurem-Black
Reuniclus
Excadrill
Mega Tyranitar
Mega Charizard Y
Zapdos
Kommo-o
Kyurem
Ditto
Chansey
Weavile

B rank

Victini
Mega Diancie
Mega Charizard X
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Skarmory
Tangrowth
Hawlucha

B- rank

Nidoking
Tapu Bulu
Hippowdon
Gastrodon
Mega Camerupt
Amoonguss
Slowbro
Mega Sableye

C RANK (in alphabetical order)

C+ Rank

Mega Aggron
Bisharp
Crawdaunt
Mega Gallade
Gyarados
Mega Heracross
Hoopa-Unbound
Hydreigon
Mamoswine
Thundurus-Therian
Mega Venusaur

C rank

Araquanid
Azumarill
Blacephalon
Mega Garchomp
Gengar
Mega Gyarados
Keldeo
Kingdra
Krookodile
Mew
Mega Pinsir
Quagsire
Ribombee
Suicune
Thundurus

C- rank

Alolan Ninetales
Seismitoad
Mega Slowbro
Terrakion

(reasoning for most non-obvious S/A mons later tm)

 

[Charmflash]

I see a lot of arguments praising this Pokemon, more so than I think it deserves, so I'll be taking some pointers from the poster before me to lay out my thoughts on why that is.

Magearna is definitely the best mon in the metagame right now. Its incredible bulk alongside great defensive typing allows it to act as a great check to some of the absolute best Pokemon in the tier, namely Latias, Zam, Lele to some extent, and Gren if AV. Its offensive sets are incredible at sweeping as well

I really dislike the notion of talking about AV/Defensive Leftovers Magearna and offensive Magearna in the same breath. The two couldn't be further apart from each other, and you are making them both seem like a stronger addition to teams than they actually are. While the versatility of a Pokemon should be taken into account when ranking, Magearna's rough set can often be determined by looking over your opponent's team, or at the latest, when it clicks it's first move. The Sun & Moon OU tier has tons of pivots to scout Magearna with, and it will usually not blow you out the park from the get-go as you can pivot in Toxapex, MegaZor, and friends pretty comfortably.

Shift Gear Magearna is a "pick your checks" kind of Pokemon with access to great coverage and strong z-moves, giving it options to deal with every single one of its counters if it's packing the move it needs.

While there are great "guaranteed" (Chansey, Volcarona, Amoonguss, Mega-Venusaur, Megazor+Tran...) answers to Magearna's Shift Gear set, this is true to some extent. However, the Sun & Moon tier does an exceptional job at scouting movesets (think Toxapex, Ditto, other Regenerator mons like Amoonguss, Protect) and the potential counters depending on the coverage chosen are plenty. You may argue that Magearna is at an advantage in those situations, since it may do some remarkable damage if it predicts well 2-3 times before the opponent has scouted the set, but you mustn't forget that this is also a dangerous situation for the Magearna side, since they risk Magearna being relegated to useless fodder that can't ever recover HP if it cannot break quickly. Running SG Gear also brings other problems, like needing to run another Steel to answer things like Lele/Zam. Overall, I completely disagree with the notion that SG Gear is, or ever has been even remotely the defining threat of this tier.

Heart Swap is my favorite set right now, mainly because it slams CM Zam and prevents Reuniclus (and other Bulky Psychics) to set up on Gear.

Defensive Leftovers is quite good against Zam, but Heart Swap actually doesnt beat Reuniclus/Mega-Latias/Clef (unless Steel move for Clef, but at that point why are we running Heart Swap?) whatsoever as the 16pp can not compete with Calm Mind's 32. What you need to run is Confide, which has the same amount of pp as one of those Calm Mind users, but will leave you more passive.

The CMSplit invalidades stall simply by existing, and is great against Balance as well

This is untrue as well. Confide trades even with Magearna's Calm Mind pp, and is a very good, and common addition to stall teams since it can take on any otherwise problematic Calm Mind user like Blacephalon or Reuniclus (in case it can break your unaware user / you don't have one). As for it being "great" against Balance, I would disagree with this notion as well. Giving up another move for Pain Split exasperates it's problem of getting walled by the things it didn't pick coverage for, and status (burn, paralysis), which balance teams so often rely on, can be unimaginably detrimental to it's effectiveness long-term, especially if it is carrying a z-crystal.

There are definitely positives to Magearna as a Pokemon, and it is a very flexible addition that can fit on many teams to great success, but let's not pretend that it is this unstoppable powerhouse.

Here's mine
S




A
A+





Latias






A












A-









Latios


B
B+









B











B-











C
I'm having a hard time deciding whether Seismitoad or Terrakion are better, theres quite a few more mons that can pop off situationally in this tier, but I think the ranking above is mostly fine. Mimikyu should be one of those mons.

 

[mushamu]

I see a lot of arguments praising this Pokemon, more so than I think it deserves, so I'll be taking some pointers from the poster before me to lay out my thoughts on why that is.


I really dislike the notion of talking about AV/Defensive Leftovers Magearna and offensive Magearna in the same breath. The two couldn't be further apart from each other, and you are making them both seem like a stronger addition to teams than they actually are. While the versatility of a Pokemon should be taken into account when ranking, Magearna's rough set can often be determined by looking over your opponent's team, or at the latest, when it clicks it's first move. The Sun & Moon OU tier has tons of pivots to scout Magearna with, and it will usually not blow you out the park from the get-go as you can pivot in Toxapex, MegaZor, and friends pretty comfortably.


While there are great "guaranteed" (Chansey, Volcarona, Amoonguss, Mega-Venusaur, Megazor+Tran...) answers to Magearna's Shift Gear set, this is true to some extent. However, the Sun & Moon tier does an exceptional job at scouting movesets (think Toxapex, Ditto, other Regenerator mons like Amoonguss, Protect) and the potential counters depending on the coverage chosen are plenty. You may argue that Magearna is at an advantage in those situations, since it may do some remarkable damage if it predicts well 2-3 times before the opponent has scouted the set, but you mustn't forget that this is also a dangerous situation for the Magearna side, since they risk Magearna being relegated to useless fodder that can't ever recover HP if it cannot break quickly. Running SG Gear also brings other problems, like needing to run another Steel to answer things like Lele/Zam. Overall, I completely disagree with the notion that SG Gear is, or ever has been even remotely the defining threat of this tier.


Defensive Leftovers is quite good against Zam, but Heart Swap actually doesnt beat Reuniclus/Mega-Latias/Clef (unless Steel move for Clef, but at that point why are we running Heart Swap?) whatsoever as the 16pp can not compete with Calm Mind's 32. What you need to run is Confide, which has the same amount of pp as one of those Calm Mind users, but will leave you more passive.


This is untrue as well. Confide trades even with Magearna's Calm Mind pp, and is a very good, and common addition to stall teams since it can take on any otherwise problematic Calm Mind user like Blacephalon or Reuniclus (in case it can break your unaware user / you don't have one). As for it being "great" against Balance, I would disagree with this notion as well. Giving up another move for Pain Split exasperates it's problem of getting walled by the things it didn't pick coverage for, and status (burn, paralysis), which balance teams so often rely on, can be unimaginably detrimental to it's effectiveness long-term, especially if it is carrying a z-crystal.

There are definitely positives to Magearna as a Pokemon, and it is a very flexible addition that can fit on many teams to great success, but let's not pretend that it is this unstoppable powerhouse.

Here's mine
S




A
A+





Latias





A












A-









Latios


B
B+









B











B-











C
I'm having a hard time deciding whether Seismitoad or Terrakion are better, theres quite a few more mons that can pop off situationally in this tier, but I think the ranking above is mostly fine. Mimikyu should be one of those mons.

While I don't agree with Magearna being an unstoppable powerhouse either, I find it curious as to why you would drop it to A+. In my opinion it's definitely better than the Pokemon that are ranked in that tier through virtue of flexibility and overall more consistency/fitting virtually everywhere while being extremely consistent at the roles it fulfills and with sweeping sets still remaining very dangerous at the end of the day. Ranking Kartana over Magearna is kind of questionable to me since they're both super dangerous as breakers; Magearna trades Speed and less immediate wallbreaking potential for defensive utility it can provide through its typing and bulk. I find keeping Magearna at S more reasonable; it's definitely one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

 

[Charmflash]

While I don't agree with Magearna being an unstoppable powerhouse either, I find it curious as to why you would drop it to A+. In my opinion it's definitely better than the Pokemon that are ranked in that tier through virtue of flexibility and overall more consistency/fitting virtually everywhere while being extremely consistent at the roles it fulfills and with sweeping sets still remaining very dangerous at the end of the day. Ranking Kartana over Magearna is kind of questionable to me since they're both super dangerous as breakers; Magearna trades Speed and less immediate wallbreaking potential for defensive utility it can provide through its typing and bulk. I find keeping Magearna at S more reasonable; it's definitely one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

In my opinion, the defensive utility of speed/spa invested Magearna is quite negligible, limited to checking Lele or switching into very specific sets like Heatwave-less Torn. You said it yourself, it trades speed, as well as power for that utility, which are obviously the most defining stats of a good offensive Pokemon. Not to mention that defensively, Kartana is no slouch either, it can take a hit from the likes of Mega-Swampert, Gliscor, Lando-T like a champ, and is immune to Leech Seed from Ferro. I think that Kartana is criminally fast for how powerful it is, and it's speed can also help out for defensive purposes in revenge killing scenarios.

 

[curiosity]

Update will be out soon, but for the meantime here’s a tier list format for those who are interested.

 

[sunbhie]

I'm so happy there is still discussion going on for this meta-even though the ladder has taken a big hit since the SS OU meta was saved with DLCs, I think it's still a fun metagame with a lot to be discovered.

The first problem I have is Mega Sableye being so low. This pokemon is the staple of stall ( an extremely viable and common playstyle this meta) for a reason. To begin with it's able to completely invalidate common OU hazard/status setters such as Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Skarmory, Chansey, Hippowdon, Mew, and MAggron. It's also able to completely stop rocks from defensive variants of Tyranitar, Garchomp, Landorus, and Gliscor.

Furthermore it has stellar defensive typing, solid defensive stats and immunity to status (barring something like mold breaker toxic excadrill-and tspikes which are realistically never able to be kept up against it). Immunity to almost all status and taunt, coupled with good bulk, great typing, and reliable recovery is being severely underestimated as a boon with Sableye being ranked way down in B.

Mega Sableye with max spdef (the common set) is also able to switch into specially defensive heatran and pp stall it's magma storms-also being immune to taunt or toxic-and hard wall mega medicham at the same time. This a feat no other OU pokemon is capable of-Sableye's defensive utility cannot be understated. It is criminal to put this pokemon in the same tier with Kyurem and below Gastrodon. I suggest he be moved to A- at least.

B-->A-


I also believe Victini is out of place at A. Heatran is everywhere, so are toxapex (ironic that a poison type causes a psychic pokemon so many problems) and mega latias. Rain is prevalent and it dies to common priority like greninja's water shiruken and mawile/bisharp sucker punch. It's typing and decent bulk allows it some decent niches defensively, but overall a very weak defensive typing. Lastly it's very subpar as a pivot due to it's weakness to entry hazards. I suggest

A--> B+



Finally I believe Tapu lele needs to move up. I agree with what Pujo has said. Tapu lele has no true switch ins-it can even run specs shadow ball/ghostium z to obliterate it's classic "check", jirachi while also slamming victini. Spdef heatran takes about 80-92 damage from fightinium z . It has a phenomenal movepool that it can use to nail supposed switch ins, amazing utility with it's terrain, and obscene raw power. Between Z move sets, specs, scarf, A- is too low for this pink monster. I suggest

A- -->A

Edit: I now want to elaborate more on tapu lele. I think this pokemon has a very high ceiling of skill especially with z moves. Here are some calculations for common switch ins, none of these sets are outlandish.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Assault Vest Magearna in Psychic Terrain: 130-153 (35.8 - 42.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 188+ SpD Jirachi: 200-236 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Scizor-Mega: 316-372 (92.1 - 108.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 390-459 (55.4 - 65.2%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 214-254 (53.9 - 63.9%)
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 416-490 (104.7 - 123.4%)
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 456-538 (118.1 - 139.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%)
252 SpA Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 174-206 (51 - 60.4%)
252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 178-211 (41.9 - 49.7%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 267-315 (62.9 - 74.2%)

In the manner of lacking true switch ins Tapu Lele is similar to Mega Mawile, yet it does not suffer from Mawile's atrocious speed. It requires excellent plays and good prediction but I think this pokemon has insane potential yet to be discovered. A rank material without a doubt; maybe even A+.

 

[Maktyum]

Here is my humble opinion as a casual player (i'm not a confirmed tournament player contrary to Pujo or Charmflash but another point of view can always be good).

S RANK

S rank

Landorus-Therian
Magearna

S- rank

Toxapex
Heatran

A RANK

A+ rank

Kartana
Tornadus-Therian
Mega Mawile
Mega Alakazam
Gliscor
Ash Greninja
Tapu Lele (see Pujo's reasoning for this)
Mega Latias

A rank

Garchomp
Volcarona
Ferrothorn
Mega Scizor
Serperior
Mega Lopunny
Protean Greninja
Tapu Koko
Mega Medicham
Rotom-Wash

A- rank

Tapu Fini
Pelipper/ Mega Swampert
Manaphy
Clefable
Kyurem-Black
Celesteela
Magnezone
Mega Latios
Reuniclus

B RANK

B+ rank

Excadrill
Mega Tyranitar
Victini

reasoning

It is underrated in my opinion. The reserved rise of sun teams with and access to powerfull and useful attacks or final gambit with the scarf set make it a threatening mon. However it needs support preventing it to be higher.

Chansey
Kommo-o
Zapdos
Ditto
Mega Diancie
Weavile
Tapu Bulu

B rank

Mega Charizard Y
Mega Charizard X
Jirachi
Mega Sableye
Kyurem
Tyranitar
Hawlucha
Skarmory
Tangrowth

B- rank

Mega Heracross
Hippowdon
Gastrodon
Mega Gallade
Hoopa-Unbound
Amoonguss
Slowbro
Mega Venusaur

C RANK

C+ Rank
Bisharp
Mega Aggron
Thundurus-Therian
Crawdaunt
Gyarados
Blacephalon
Hydreigon
Mamoswine
Nidoking

C rank

Araquanid
Azumarill
Mega Garchomp
Keldeo
Gengar
Mega Gyarados
Ribombee
Mew
Kingdra
Mega Pinsir
Quagsire
Krookodile
Suicune
Thundurus
Seismitoad

C- rank

Alolan Ninetales
Mega Slowbro
Terrakion

sorry for my english

 

[GS Cross2]

because greninja-ash is not in the S, I remember that at the end of the generation it was in the S

 

[Zokuru]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1414736365

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-358665

Rank Scolipede thanks.

 

[z0mOG]

was doing a mental review of the vr in my mind and just decided to put the changes into writing -- aka personal VR update. explanations are all in my head so tldr just trust me bro. also quick plug for the sm discord: https://discord.gg/YwExQ2F3NK

(all ordered)
S RANK

S rank

Landorus-Therian
Magearna
Toxapex

S- Rank

Heatran

A RANK

A+ rank

Kartana
Greninja + Ash Greninja
Tornadus-Therian
Gliscor
Mega Latias
Ferrothorn
Clefable
Garchomp


A rank

Mega Latios
Mega Tyranitar
Mega Alakazam
Mega Mawile
Rotom-Wash
Tapu Lele
Tapu Fini
Tapu Koko
Serperior
Mega Lopunny
Mega Medicham
Magnezone
Excadrill


A- rank

Mega Scizor
Ditto
Chansey
Tapu Bulu
Victini
Kyurem-Black
Kommo-o
Celesteela
Volcarona


B RANK

B+ rank

Jirachi
Tyranitar
Zapdos
Pelipper
Mega Swampert
Manaphy
Tangrowth
Gastrodon
Kyurem
Weavile
Hawlucha


B rank

Mega Charizard X
Hippowdon
Reuniclus
Slowbro
Amoonguss
Mega Diancie
Skarmory
Mega Sableye
Hoopa-Unbound


B- rank

Mamoswine
Mega Charizard Y
Mega Heracross
Gyarados
Mega Aggron
Hydreigon
Mega Venusaur
Thundurus-Therian

Mons under B- that I'm optimistic may still be viable:
Blacephalon, Bisharp, Mew. Probably won't find me using anything below B+ personally, but everything B- and up has enough competitive value to be ranked.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Good VR list z0mOG ! It seems fighting types are generally weak in SM OU huh? Thanks to the Fairy tapus and stuff lol. Speaking of which, why is Bulu a little lower than the other three Tapus?

 

[z0mOG]

Good VR list z0mOG ! It seems fighting types are generally weak in SM OU huh? Thanks to the Fairy tapus and stuff lol. Speaking of which, why is Bulu a little lower than the other three Tapus?

Grassy terrain is harder to make use of than the others due to how likely it is to help out your opponent, on top of the fact that it is just generally a lot less reliable vs the top mons of the tier. Generally you can kinda just look at how it matches into torn/tran/pex/magearna/kart/mlatias, and it is generally reliant on using superpower/stone edge turns correctly to make progress, which can mean not having the HP you need to be defensively valuable if you aren't getting synthesis or protect turns right. It's a fine mon, but just too unreliable as a sweeper/breaker against the top of the tier.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Grassy terrain is harder to make use of than the others due to how likely it is to help out your opponent, on top of the fact that it is just generally a lot less reliable vs the top mons of the tier. Generally you can kinda just look at how it matches into torn/tran/pex/magearna/kart/mlatias, and it is generally reliant on using superpower/stone edge turns correctly to make progress, which can mean not having the HP you need to be defensively valuable if you aren't getting synthesis or protect turns right. It's a fine mon, but just too unreliable as a sweeper/breaker against the top of the tier.

Hmm, those are all pretty interesting ideas. I haven't played as Bulu myself much, but I imagine it would take a little extra effort in Teambuilding to cover some of its shortcomings compared to the other three Tapus. Thank you, that's very intersting.

I've been experimenting on ladder a little bit, and I think a G-W-F core with Bulu, Greninja, and Heatran is highly effective! What do you all think?

 

[z0mOG]

Ranking updates. I'm mostly taking what has been seen (so far) from this SPL and in smogtour playoffs into consideration for my changes. Notes applied for relevant drops and rises if I have enough to say. After SPL I will probably just edit this post if I feel it necessary.

S RANK

S rank

Magearna
Landorus-Therian (Gliscor up = Lando gotta come down. Only one spot, though. Magearna is as good as ever really -- and honestly more versatile than Lando-T these days with the invention of sets like phys def, weird cm pain split sets, or you can just stick to tried and true AV / 3 atk SG. This is more of a note for Magearna as I read it back... but as Lando-T's biggest fan I've got to comment here.)
Toxapex

S- Rank

Gliscor (Gliscor has usurped Landorus-T in usage for a reason. I don't rate it higher still due to the fact that it is less versatile and can be abused a bit harder in the builder naturally. That being said... it's just so much value in a mon. SD is great and pairs amazingly with trappers. U-Turn hazard control is great and pairs amazingly well with breakers that are hard to switch-in in such an offensive meta like Mawile.)
Kartana

A RANK

A+ rank

Tornadus-Therian
Greninja + Ash Greninja
Ferrothorn
Clefable
Heatran (Heatran has lot an immense amount of steam with the prevalence of Gliscor and the shift to psychic types all being able to dumpster Heatran. At the end of the day though... it's Heatran. Spdef will always get at least some value and you can always use it as a one-for-one Z-nuke to bait Gliscors, Latis, Tyranitars and such.
Mega Latias (In my mind, the battle for best mega is between Latias and Tyranitar. I think Weavile's rise in prominence is almost enough for me to eke out Tyranitar, but Latias is always just so effective in any game SOMEHOW. While I don't personally enjoy playing the "french team" (Lati Tran Ferro Clef Glis Rotom), Latias is a huge cornerstone on one of the most consistent teams in SM history.)
Mega Tyranitar
Tapu Lele (All of my teams end up with a specs lele and I cannot stop myself. No mon makes progress faster. It is somehow the best lead in the tier because it's the safest way to get it in.)
Mega Alakazam

A rank

Rotom-Wash (It amuses me how some teams can just autolose to this mon. It lowkey invalidates all of those Aggron+Wish, Venu+Chans, etc type archetypes while also always holding value versus the best archetype of the tier. Next SPL I probably rank rotom mid A+.)
Mega Latios
Mega Mawile
Tapu Koko (I was super optimistic that Koko was good in this minimal-grass meta SM... it's just a bit underwhelming still. Not too many archetypes I like it on either. Screens is ok, and other than that I only really appreciate it on teams with abusers that can get in on uturns versus grounds and the rare grass types [Medicham]).
Tapu Fini
Serperior
Mega Lopunny
Garchomp (Long gone are the days of Garchomp being a top 3 Z-move holder in the tier. It still functions fine as a breaker for vanilla/bulky offenses -- the spl usage stats just indicate where teams value their ground type and z-user to be though.)
Mega Medicham (Not the mon for me, just a bit too mind-game and RNG reliant to win games. Empo using Medicham is an S- though.)
Magnezone
Excadrill
Chansey (OP. It's ironic how Chansey is one of the most pressuring mons versus offensive teams just through status, and being able to get free switches in to the mons that disregard status such as Toxapex.)

A- rank

Kommo-o (Kommo-o is just always so versatile on HO and vanilla offense(see: teams like Psy spam) as both a sweeper and a role compressor. It will never do anything truly amazingly though, as no sweeper set is perfect and the bulky sets can invite in a lot of unwanted threats that make headway, like Lele/Fini/Toxapex.)
Mega Scizor
Ditto
Tapu Bulu
Victini
Kyurem-Black
Weavile (I just really love the constraint Weavile can put on people in the builder AND in-game. It really is one of the most accurate mons in terms of "in practice" matches "on paper". Great on those Gliscor, Lati esque balances.
Celesteela
Volcarona


B RANK

B+ rank

Manaphy
Pelipper / Mega Swampert (These two should never separate and thus rank together. Manaphy gets to be one spot higher because I think there is room to use it on webs/screens/some underexplored archetype -- generally will also just be another rain guarantee though.)
Mega Diancie
Gastrodon
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Slowbro
Hawlucha
Tangrowth
Mega Charizard X (Excited to see more Zard-X HOs pop up in the future. I personally saw an increase in value with scarf Lando-t being much more rare, and Gliscor being setup fodder to an extent.)

B rank

(Fulfills a pretty creative role on HO builds not looking to suicide with Lando-t. Doesn't have much defensive utility with the wisp/taunt/etc sets these days though, and is kind of asking to get outplayed.)
Kyurem
Zapdos
Hippowdon
Reuniclus (Usage probably doesn't reflect a B mon, but Reuniclus is a bit of a resource suck to ultimately be a mostly MU fish and "don't crit or freeze me XD" slot.)
Skarmory
Mega Sableye (Good players will beat Sableye teams. You have very little room to make your own headway and Sableye only fits on specific archetype.)
Hoopa-Unbound


B- rank

Amoonguss
Mamoswine
Mega Aggron
Mega Charizard Y
Mega Heracross
Bisharp
Alomomola
Gyarados-Mega
Hydreigon (Ngl this is the only mon here I'd use. It's just not that good though.)
Thundurus-Therian

 

[z0mOG]

Ranking updates. I'm mostly taking what has been seen (so far) from this SPL and in smogtour playoffs into consideration for my changes. Notes applied for relevant drops and rises if I have enough to say. After SPL I will probably just edit this post if I feel it necessary.

I got bored so I summarized this all into a video (with slightly messed up obs proportions...). Expect more content and SMPL