i just wanna say that you should never run modest scarf serp bcuz outspeeding shit like scarf kart is so crucial and the extra damage isnt really missed. scarf serp is a set i use a ton on bulky offense because the leeway it gives you vs stuff like volc/dd mons as well as the matchup vs rain is really appreciated in this meta. not to mention the fact that it checks zygarde AND gren which is something that most teams appreciate because of the role compression. the filler slot is never wasted imo as toxic is nice for zap/tang, and i've used knock off in conjunction with ash gren to help vs av mage's and chanseys. then of course if you dont have a fogger serp can do that in the fourth slot as well. def one of my fav mons right now scarf or synth glare solely because of the amount of role compression it provides, as well as the fact that glare allows you to cheese past counters frequently.
Been playing with some Sand Offense recently and I gotta admit, Excadrill surprised me at how effectively it could actually be as a wallbreaker, sweeper, and revenge killer, as it's Steel / Ground typing + okay bulk and massive 135 Attack in tandem w/ a Z-Move allows it to set-up an SD on Pokemon such as Tornadus-T, Clefable, and AV Magearna, and on forced switches against threats like Heatran, Protean Greninja, M-Medicham, overall it's a really cool mon, and although it isn't fantastic, it's definitely got a unique niche in the tier.Tyranitar-Mega (M) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge / Crunch
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch
- Pursuit
Excadrill (M) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin / Rock Slide
Of course let me talk about it's main partner: Mega Tyranitar. M-Tar is obviously a lot of splashable, and fits on some bulky offense teams in need of a Stealth Rock setter that can also soft check a multitude of threats such as Tornadus-T, Utility Heatran, Zapdos, M-Zard-X, Mega Latios, etc. While it does have some exploitable weaknesses to threats like Zygarde, Kartana, Tapu Bulu, its coverage options + incredible Attack stat allow it to punish these threats easily, and it's not easy to switch into by any means.
Anyways, I think ya'll should try building w/ M-Tar or even incorporate Excadrill into the build, as if these two are played right them they can absolutely dismantle certain teams.
Other observations I've had on the ladder is that stall is pretty common, I see multiple builds of it on the ladder, usually utilizing some form of M-Sableye + Defog user such as Zapdos, Gliscor, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that you should always incorporate at least some form of counterplay towards it, examples of good wallbreakers include Mega Mawile, Mega Heracross, SD Gliscor, and some Stealth Rockers that can keep them up versus stall include Mega Tyranitar, Mega Diancie.
I can’t answer the first two questions, but the role of Weavile on stall teams is less to function as a fast revenge killer (although that’s certainly a bonus) and more because of its ability to trap and eliminate (or otherwise severely threaten) certain threatening Pokemon for stall teams such as Energy Ball Reuniclus, Gliscor etc. and just generally being nice for weaking stallbreakers/removing them once they are weakened. I don’t really think that it’s necessary but it is definitely worth considering because it does improve some match-ups (as well as obviously worsening others) and honestly it just depends on what your priorities are when playing and what your team is weak to.
You forgot to mention how to not get 6-0d but hoopa c in there. which i guess ur just gonna take ls on that mon lmao. which is fine I guess lmao. just didnt wanna not mention thatStall in SM OU
Hey everyone. As many of you know, I have started to frequent stall in recent months. I feel like this archetype is not only ridiculously underrated in the current metagame, but also not fully understood by the playerbase, so I am making a post to try and raise exposure/understanding, provoke discussion, and hopefully help evolve the metagame as we know it.
I feel that the best way to approach this would be to break down the elements of stall teams themselves, explaining why they are what they are and perhaps piecing the puzzle together in the head of people who are less experienced with the archetype. I would also like to show some example teams/games to put it all out there and give some context. Finally, I want to discuss potential tiering implications that stall has on the metagame. Given that, I am going to break down this post into four parts:
Components of stall teams
- Components of stall teams
- Example teams
- How-to-play / Example games
- Tiering implications
Chansey
Chansey is the single most common Pokemon on stall teams currently. It has been this way for all of SM to be honest, but you can put specific emphasis on this recently seeing as more and more stall teams have been exploring options other than Mega Sableye, which used to be a staple. I feel it would be very hard, if not impossible, to create a stall team that lacks Chansey and can still be considered optimal. Chansey is of such vital importance because it has absurd bulk, especially on the special side, coupled with only being weak to Fighting types, having a great utility movepool, and being able to at least tinker with progress-making thanks to Seismic Toss and Toxic being viable options. While Chansey itself is oftentimes strapped for moves, being able to fit Toxic makes it significantly more effective and less passive. Stealth Rock and Heal Bell are on almost every stall team and Chansey is often needed for one or both. If you can give these to other Pokemon, then you will not only diversify your team and perhaps make a lot of match-ups less dependent on singular conditions, but you will also get the most out of your Chansey, which is beneficial. Anyway, I am going to assume that people understand the basic functions of Chansey, letting me move on from this and not go on-and-on about how many things it covers and how practical it is for these teams.
Mega slot
First and foremost, a mega is NOT mandatory on stall, let alone one of these two. It is plausible to make megaless stall that is optimal, but the match-up trade-offs are something that a user of these teams should be smart about. All of the teams I personally frequent and will be sharing have a mega and they all are either Sableye or Aggron, so I will proceed with my experiences and insight on these two. However, be sure not to limit yourself with your own builds/experimenting with stall if you wish to expand your horizons further than I currently have done so as an individual.
Mega Sableye is easily the most common mega evolution on stall and perhaps the third most common Pokemon on the archetype overall, behind Chansey and Zapdos. Mega Sableye is ridiculously practical on stall teams thanks to the ability Magic Bounce, letting it work in conjunction with Defog/Rapid Spin cores to assure that hazards are kept off the field as much as possible. Oftentimes, hazards being up combined with specific threats, switching sequences being provoked, or a combination of the two leads to the downfall of stall. Checks and counters only remain checks and counters if they are kept somewhat healthy, which hazards being up consistently can easily prevent. Therefore, one of the clear priorities of stall is to have consistent covergae of the hazard metagame, which is where Mega Sableye comes in to play. Non-Z Heatran, Gliscor, Non-Z Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, RH Garchomp, Chansey, some Protean Greninja, and Mega Aggron can almost never set up hazards if facing a well-played Mega Sableye stall, thus making the match-up ridiculously more favorable than it otherwise would be. On top of this, Pokemon that are capable of setting up Stealth Rock regardless due to their effectiveness against Mega Sableye, such as Mega Diancie, Clefable, Z Heatran, Z Landorus-T, Ash Greninja, Mega Tyranitar, and Z Garchomp, still have to think twice before clicking a hazard setting move in confidence due to Mega Sableye's presence and also honestly the presence of Mega Sableye has bolstered the viability of a number of these hazard setters, attesting to how viable it is.
Mega Aggron is far less defined in its roll than Mega Sableye, perhaps showing why it is not only less common, but also seen as more of a niche option given its current place in the viability rankings in C rank. With this said, it is a naturally strong and durable Pokemon, making it very worthwhile in certain contexts. Mega Aggron is perhaps the best counter the game has to offer to non-Focus Punch Mega Mawile, Mega Aggron is able to 1v1 any non-Z Fire Heatran, Mega Aggron pressures cores with Clefable, Tornadus-Therian, and/or Toxapex while also setting up Stealth Rock, thus making it super helpful when it comes to actually winning games, and Mega Aggron when given Wish support is able to turn a lot of difficult situations into manageable ones given proper execution (general sentiment, but still holds true and examples will be provided in replays later). For more on Mega Aggron and what it provides, I would advise reading this post and the one above it.
Unaware / Set-up deterrents
This slot is super straightforward, so hopefully everyone will understand it. Anyway, to briefly go over it: stall teams allow turns to opposing win conditions often due to the lack of consistent pressure they apply. Therefore, these Pokemon can set-up and try to sweep, but Unaware Pokemon can oftentimes thwart those efforts if used properly. Magearna is also listed as it functions in a similar fashion, but I will touch on this more later.
Quagsire is my favorite Unaware Pokemon because it doubles as a Ground type, proving to be very valuable in blocking Volt Switch and just having a generally helpful defensive presence. Overall, Quagsire has respectable utility with Haze and Toxic, making it less passive than it may seem to be. Scald is also a clear asset as the prospect of a burn makes a lot of things think twice about switching in comfortably.
Pyukumuku has seen much better days in the past, but is still a viable Unaware Pokemon. It was much more common on stall earlier in 2018, but you still see it pop up here-and-there. Pyukumuku is a merciless bastard to opposing teams that have specific win conditions that may otherwise do well against stall; with Block + Spite + Rest, Pyukumuku can eliminate entire specific Pokemon that stay in against it while just sitting there sleeping. It is the most passive piece of shit, but it has enough bulk and the right moves to eliminate specific win conditions, so it is a viable option.
Clefable is personally my second favorite Unaware Pokemon; Unaware Clefable is objectively worse than Magic Guard seeing as it takes status and hazard damage, which is basically everything... BUT it still is viable as it gets the job done against a lot of common bulky set-up. In addition, it also provides support to team members by being able to pass Wishes and if you elect to use Calm Mind or Toxic then it can be a lot less passive than it may initially seem to be, which is helpful for trying to make progress.
Magearna does not get the ability Unaware, BUT it does get Heart Swap and this is great against Calm Mind Clefable, Calm Mind Reuniclus, Calm Mind/Shift Gear Magearna, Calm Mind Mega Latias, Calm Mind Tapu Lele, Serperior, etc. Honestly, Magearna is a great Pokemon to have because it gives to a cleric, momentum grabber, decent balanced presence, AND it helps with a number of problematic boosters, including some that Unaware Pokemon can struggle with (i.e: specific Z Reuniclus variants, Calm Mind + Stored Power Clefable, Serperior, and Tapu Lele). Overall, Magearna can not fit on every stall team and more often than not you will want to use an actual Unaware Pokemon like Quagsire, but there are semi-likely circumstances that call for Magearna and these teams are much more versatile in terms of gameplay options given how resourceful Magearna is as a Pokemon I feel.
Defog cores
First and foremost, there are more viable Defoggers than these four. I don't even use Moltres at all myself, but it has been a viable option ever since the WCOP Finals tiebreak game where Bro Fist showed it off, so I wanted to include its little sprite above. Anyway, aside from this group depicted above, viable Defoggers on stall include: literally anything that gets Defog that you feel improves your team more than the alternatives if slotted on it. Do not try to limit yourself when building/testing stall. I would love to see the archetype diversify and new options tried out in the future, so go nuts!
Anyway, instead of going singular Pokemon by Pokemon, I feel like I will be a bit more direct and practical with this explanation. The goal of your Defog core is primarily to assure that you can consistently keep the hazards set by common hazard setters in the metagame off. If this is by threatening the setters out, thus letting you Defog freely, or simply outlasting them thanks to PP/Pressure does not matter, but the task must be done as effectively as possible for a stall team to have the necessary durability to function consistently. Normally, teams have multiple Defog users. Two is most common, but you can encounter a team with three every now-and-then. There are also alternatives like Mega Sableye, Avalugg, etc. that can also play a role in hazard control, which is appreciated.
I have a couple example Defog cores that you will later notice are recurring on the teams I share and I think that these are just solid examples of being able to cover a vast majority of the hazard-setters in the tier, especially when paired with the things mentioned above. Core 1 is by far my most common core and probably the most consistent. This Mew is able to stomach 2 Specs Lele Moonblasts almost always while hard countering Z Heatran and being able to handle max SAtk Mega Diancie. All things considered, it is a ridiculously good utility fit on the teams I use it on and I am glad I figured out this spread when I did. The Zapdos is super standard, but quite effective nonetheless. Zapdos is close to a staple on stall due to some specific favorable MUs it brings to the table and, more importantly, the ability Pressure, letting it outstall things like Stealth Rock Clefable lacking Calm Mind or Toxic and the PP of so many moves. Core 2 is best on Mega Aggron stalls, specifically those with Wish Chansey or Wish Unaware Clefable. Regardless, it is pretty solid at covering as much as possible between just two Defoggers without any Mega Sableye support, but it is strapped in terms of other effectiveness, leading the brunt of the progress-making work outside of Knock/status/potential Gliscor SR to be left on the 4 remaining members. Just to go into a little detail, this Mew is a more PDef oriented set, geared towards stomaching a number of important physical hits and being a top-notch counter to Mega Medicham which is otherwise problematic to non-Mega Sableye stall. The Gliscor set is meant to maximize SDef presence, giving it 4-5% less damage taken by special moves than the normal max HP rest in SDef spread, thus making the odds vs Z Heatran go up significantly. Core 3 is only viable on Mega Sableye stalls, but it is quite good on teams of that sort.
Don't limit yourself to just these, but these are three effective examples of Defog cores that I have integrated into multiple teams in the past with success. I feel like Zapdos is the single best Defogger on stall teams and it should be on a vast majority of stalls, but Mew and Gliscor are also both strong options. Mew is great because it can be used in so many different ways, with the SDef variant in core 1 being a great example of how it can be used to fit a specific mold. Gliscor in general never dies with Poison Heal, can potentially provide Stealth Rock as well, and has a ton of super practical applications. Overall, covering the hazard metagame should be a top priority and if your stall team has noteworthy holes on this front, then odds are you are going to struggle in relevant match-ups to that hole.
FINALLY, and this is separate from Defog cores, there is more than just these things I outlined above to stall teams. However, these are all near essential/common components that I felt it was best to outline. From there, you need to identify what your team needs and what your team is weak to and fill out the remainder in the most optimal way you possibly can, just like building any other team but with the end goal being more drawn-out and stall oriented of course.
Example teams
Here is a visual of all of the stalls I have built and/or used since the start of Smogon Snake Draft II (since August, pretty much). Anyway, I will show the imports and provide explanations for a few of the stalls I have used the most in tournaments and then just share the remainder as I do not feel like sharing a specific mindset over a dozen individual teams, especially when a ton of it is repetitive/overlapping.
Before I go through the teams, YES EVERY STALL TEAM HAS A COUPLE UNAVOIDABLE WEAKNESSES. I hope I don't have to repeat this a million times throughout the next week. If I do, I will regret even going out of my way to make this post. It is an inherent risk of using the playstyle; there are some associated with most playstyles, especially the "extremes" of the metagame.
Import
This team is the team I used vs Hayburner during Smogon Snake Draft II. I will get into the replay as part of the replays section later, but for now I want to go through the team. This was my first Mega Aggron build, so it was a bit of a novel experience for me, making me want to explore every possible option to come up with the optimal supporting cast. I knew Hayburner had a history of using "cheese" and I was kind of paranoid after Kickasser used some Webs against me the week prior, so I decided it was time to consider Buzzwole (and Chesnaught, but that team never really saw the light of day). Buzz is great for blanket checking a number of PDef win conditions, which also takes a lot of stress off of my Unaware Pokemon. Some examples are Zygarde, Mega Heracross (I am using Toxic on this variant to help put it on a timer instead of losing the 1v1 with BU), most Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Tyranitar. From there, I had Mega Aggron, Chansey (staple), and Buzzwole. I knew that I was vulnerable as all hell to hazards, so I threw on my best core of Defoggers to fit for size, which is the aforementioned Mew + Zapdos core that worked so well on a number of teams. Those two worked like a charm and then I just needed Unaware/set-up deterrent, which happened to be Quagsire as it provided me with a Ground type, it learned Haze which made me more comfortable against Reuniclus seeing as I lacked a Dark type, and it was a good fit for the team seeing as it can fit Toxic and my Chansey and Mega Aggron both lacked it. From there, the team was good to go. I tried to touch on the general roles and ideas behind adding each member, but throughout the process I also kept an eye on the list of threats to help decide Pokemon, moves, EVs, etc. I would be glad to answer any specific questions on those details, so feel free to ask here/over VM or PM, but I will not go into that much detail throughout this post as to not make it anymore of a novel.
Import
This is the team that I used vs Ramboss during Smogon Snake Draft II; this team was initially built to use against Posho and it was the first time I stalled a noteworthy tournament game since last Snake, so it sort of was the start of all of this. Instead of starting with Mega Sableye and working my way through, I actually want to say that the start of this team was the aforementioned Defog core of SDef Mew + Zapdos. This core has worked wonders for me so many times as I have alluded to on numerous occasions throughout this post and this is the origin of it. I knew these two plus an eventual Mega Sableye covered whatever I expected, so I threw on Mega Sableye for a few things, including added hazard control, and Chansey, which unfortunately needed SR + Heal Bell here, but sometimes that's what it has to come to. From there, I knew I needed a Mega Mawile check, an Unaware Pokemon/set-up deterrent, and ideally a Ground type over the next few Pokemon (actually, these roles + potentially having SR or Heal Bell to free up space on Chansey, but you will see this specific variant was not able to do that). Anyway, with all of these conditions in mind, I came up with all of these builds, of which the imports of the others will be shown later. I ultimately decided RH Tangrowth + Unaware Quagsire was the best fit for the opponent. The former provided great coverage for Zygarde, Kartana, and Mega Mawile given the set I was using. The latter of which provided a Ground type Unaware Pokemon with important utility moves such as Haze and Toxic.
OH yea before I forget! I made this amusing Google Doc before I played in case I grew uncertain about how to pilot stall seeing as this was my first big stall game in a while and I was not yet confident in my ability to play it, especially if things got more complex. HERE! It is absurdly long and tries to go in depth on every single potentially problematic Pokemon, which shows how fucking uncertain I was of myself going into that game tbh. Turns out I didn't really need it and I won the game without clicking on the tab once, but my MU was petty favorable. Anyway, this is a cool idea for beginners using their own stall teams. Try to write it out/play it out in your head, even if it is just for a small handful of Pokemon as opposed to the whole tier as I probably went pretty overboard here (ok yea 22 pages, I hella did lmao). Anyway, stuff like this being integrated into an approach to give you an extra layer of confidence is cool and I love hearing about how other tournament players approach their games, so I figured including a bit of my personal process for a first stall game could be intriguing for those who are trying to get into it themselves, so i hope this helped, even if it is just to the slightest extent.
Import
This is probably my favorite stall overall and it is the team I have used the most besides the two above that I used in official tournament games. Overall, it has been my go-to when I knew I wanted to stall someone in SmogonTour, but did not have a read on them as to what specific variant of other stall may be the play. Anyway, this team has one admittedly annoying flaw: lack of a Ground type. Tapu Koko is nearing an all-time-low and even then it uses U-turn over Volt Switch almost always, so that's not a big deal, but even then, it or AV Magearna + an annoying Pokemon will require some outplaying as opposed to laid back counterplay like normally, so keep this in mind when piloting this in those specific MUs. The team itself is meant to play a bit like the Ciele/ILovePinkMons stall did back in the hay day of SM, which is why I love it so much in SmogTour and even on the ladder occasionally. Mega Aggron + 2 Wish passers was the idea, leading me to Clefable + Alomomola, both of which helped a ton with Mega Medicham, too (Mola is RH, Clef is just a natural check), which is annoying to non-Mega Sableye stall. Anyway, I don't want to repeat the process as I did above twice already, but same old same old with the Defoggers and the dual wish core was integrated as the initial idea with Mega Aggron as I alluded to above, so from there it is just Chansey as always and picking the optimal sets for the team, which came with some threat-list analysis and trial-and-error on the ladder. This team is probably the most "fun" of any stall team to play for me and I say that entirely seriously -- I actually do enjoy playing stall, who would've thought? Certainly not me ~6 months ago. But anyway, here we are and here's the team!
Here are a bunch of other teams that I have just built or used, but much less than these three:
Do note that in the replays later on in the post, some moves may be different. I CStyled specific opponents who had problematic trends as to make sure I was not in danger whenever I had time to check replays. These imports are what I deem to be consistent variants of each team (or as consistent as possible, anyway). Feel free to change as you please anyway, of course.
- Alternative Mega Aggron Stall
- Chesnaught experiment
- Same 6 as team for Ramboss, but with Eo Tang
- Hippo+Clef over Tang+Quag
- First Avalugg variant
- Fuck Pyukumuku tbh
- Magearna variant
- Pyuku+Avalugg
How-to-play / Example games
First thing is first: I love this subforum, I love to help people, and I love this community. I do not love torture, however. Therefore, instead of going through replay-after-replay and analyzing specific plays/sequences, I will go over some general thoughts/guidelines on piloting stall and then provide example replays that you guys can use to try to connect it all together if you would like to. What you do with this post is totally up to you, but I will provide what is necessary to at least get a grasp given my abilities to help. Given that, here are some personal tips to playing stall:
There is so much more that can be said, but these points stood out to me, especially for when it comes to trying to explain things to likely OU Subforum frequents who may lack experience playing stall. I would be glad to elaborate or go into more depth on anything, so feel free to hmu anytime. Here are some replays:
- Information: Use any and all information you get from your opponents team/play. One piece of information, which can be as small as an EV spread or individual move, can lead to you figuring out multiple full sets/spreads. Once you have their team generally plotted out, you know exactly what you need and how you can best go about walling it, making progress, not compromising your collective defensive presences, and avoiding any potential instances of getting unlucky to lose in favorable match-ups. The information war is huge. If you are playing stall, it is almost nice to not disclose things purposely in some more drawn out scenarios if possible, especially if your opponent is well-versed in the metagame or playing stall. If you are the stall player, use whatever you know to piece the opponent's team together. From there, you can gameplan. PSA: USE THE FUCKING DAMAGE CALC ON ANYTHING YOU CAN PLEASE STOP BEING SO SLOPPY @ THE ENTIRE NEW GENERATION OF POCKET MONSTERS PLAYERS FFS
- Gameplanning: Sometimes, this can be done at team preview without much hesitation. Sometimes, it can be done partially then and then fully once you know more about their team/sets/spreads. And sometimes almost all of it is delayed until a later point when things are sufficiently felt out, if it is not too late and the early game was not too costly. This entirely depends on the opponent and their match-up, which makes sense seeing how reactionary a playstyle stall truly is. Anyway, your goal is to find a way to optimally prevent them from being able to break through significant members of your team/your team as a whole or at least have good odds to break you. It oftentimes becomes cyclical and repetitive in practice, but understanding how to plot a long-term gameplan and executing it is vital for a successful stall player. Your gameplan should also include methods of actually making progress, especially against durable opposing teams. Oftentimes, this centers around stuff as small as keeping rocks up for specific periods/sequences, stalling out specific moves PP so that a Pokemon can no longer threaten one of yours, or conditioning your opponent into a repetitive neutral sequence so that you can eventually take advantage with a more aggressive pivot thrown in to let you do damage, set hazards, status something, etc. This is all largely game dependent, but also insanely important to actually winning games as playing stall is rarely just trying to get the game to physically stall out for hundreds of turns.
- Prioritizing: Arguably a part of gameplanning, but also something that should just generally be of note to people playing stall. You need to know when to push a specific issue in the game and when to back off. You need to know when it is appropriate to stray from your normal sequences/lines of counterplay and when it is not appropriate to do so. You need to be able to gauge risk-vs-reward in a short term and long term fashion if you want to play drawn out games optimally. This probably sounds like some mumbo-jumbo mixture of a fortune cookie and an introductory level investments lecture right about now, but trust me it all has meaning and it will save your ass. There are ALWAYS going to be things you need to win the game when using stall, oftentimes the same things each time. There are SOMETIMES, however, going to be things you can risk in a timely, practical, and calculated fashion that may give you a leg up. Be it through setting SR up, getting an extra status, maybe forcing a trade? who knows, but if you can figure out what you need, what you can play a bit less conservatively, and what gives you some leverage for prediction/middlegrounds/getting the opponent a bit too caught up in their own plays to the point where they later second guess themselves...these things may very well be present in your battle and you need to make the absolute most of them to win vs good players in non-favorable MUs. Make note of this, try to decipher what this means to you, and try to figure out what it means in the context of specific games and you will find yourself maximizing your odds more often than not.
- Details: Health, PP, EV spreads, items, status, etc. -- do not forget any of these things. This is going to be brief and to the point. Newer players often overlook specific routes to victory for more common, generally effective ones they frequent in other match-ups with other archetypes. This is not going to get you very far with stall. You need to pay attention to each and every last detail, especially with regards to PP and EV spreads. That helps decipher some information above, get you to a point where you can make progress in your gameplan, etc. This stuff is all intertwined after all as it is the same game of Pokemon, but please do yourself a favor and be careful, pay attention to the details, and do NOT click.
I'd be fine going through a battle here-or-there just to explain my specific mindset, gameplan, priorities, etc., so feel free to contact me individually if you would like, but going through multiple and doing so consistently or all in this post for the sake of showcasing my thought process feels like it'd be way too much, so for now I'll leave it at that.
- vs Ramboss for Smogon Snake Draft II
- vs Hayburner for Smogon Snake Draft II
- vs Tech Froakies for finals of Stone's Money Tour
- vs Red Shredder for STour
- vs BNT for STour
- vs BlueIvy for STour
- vs Cielbakasan vs STour
- vs IPF for Stone's Money Tour
- vs Egor for God's Among Us
- vs Casparov for God's Among Us
- vs Trap for STour
- vs Frisoeva for STour
- vs DanDaMan99 for STour
- vs TDW for STour
- vs Clownlink for STour
- vs Energy for STour
- vs lyd for God's Among Us
Tiering implications
I was not sure if I wanted to include this section or not, but I think it is for the best. I think that stall has potential to be ridiculously good, even if people will likely adapt to it more-and-more over time if it gains traction. Do I think there is a chance that we could be in another position where stall is good enough to warrant some sort of suspect in the future? Maybe, it is not impossible. I would 100% not support a suspect of anything stall related currently, however. I would love to see more people experiment with stall, perhaps even find the next BIG stall during SPL/STour playoffs/OST or something. That could put it over the edge -- who knows? Certainly not me! Regardless, I think that this is something the general public needs to take more seriously and try out more as it is being overlooked a ton right now. I think that SM has a lot of evolving left to do and some of that can be found within the stall archetype, so hopefully this post and the resources provided throughout it can help provoke a more diverse metagame full of playerbase realization and perhaps the evolution of SM OU as we know it.
s/o mortimer the mighty bagon for the inspiration, finch out
Toxapex is hard to fit onto stall; it is possible, but it is more of a luxury and the structures I find to be the most consistent cannot afford to fit it. An example of a Toxapex stall team can be found here; however, this team pretty much bends over to any Tapu Lele, struggles even more than normal teams against Mega Tyranitar/Mega Diancie, and has a bit less reliable of a core of hazard removers than I personally feel comfortable with. It is a great help with Regenerator and being able to status/wall/provide utility in numerous contexts, but it is a trade-off that I oftentimes find to not be worthwhile when it comes to compromising overall team effectiveness/consistency.
Stall in SM OU
Hey everyone. As many of you know, I have started to frequent stall in recent months. I feel like this archetype is not only ridiculously underrated in the current metagame, but also not fully understood by the playerbase, so I am making a post to try and raise exposure/understanding, provoke discussion, and hopefully help evolve the metagame as we know it.
I feel that the best way to approach this would be to break down the elements of stall teams themselves, explaining why they are what they are and perhaps piecing the puzzle together in the head of people who are less experienced with the archetype. I would also like to show some example teams/games to put it all out there and give some context. Finally, I want to discuss potential tiering implications that stall has on the metagame. Given that, I am going to break down this post into four parts:
Components of stall teams
- Components of stall teams
- Example teams
- How-to-play / Example games
- Tiering implications
Chansey
Chansey is the single most common Pokemon on stall teams currently. It has been this way for all of SM to be honest, but you can put specific emphasis on this recently seeing as more and more stall teams have been exploring options other than Mega Sableye, which used to be a staple. I feel it would be very hard, if not impossible, to create a stall team that lacks Chansey and can still be considered optimal. Chansey is of such vital importance because it has absurd bulk, especially on the special side, coupled with only being weak to Fighting types, having a great utility movepool, and being able to at least tinker with progress-making thanks to Seismic Toss and Toxic being viable options. While Chansey itself is oftentimes strapped for moves, being able to fit Toxic makes it significantly more effective and less passive. Stealth Rock and Heal Bell are on almost every stall team and Chansey is often needed for one or both. If you can give these to other Pokemon, then you will not only diversify your team and perhaps make a lot of match-ups less dependent on singular conditions, but you will also get the most out of your Chansey, which is beneficial. Anyway, I am going to assume that people understand the basic functions of Chansey, letting me move on from this and not go on-and-on about how many things it covers and how practical it is for these teams.
Mega slot
First and foremost, a mega is NOT mandatory on stall, let alone one of these two. It is plausible to make megaless stall that is optimal, but the match-up trade-offs are something that a user of these teams should be smart about. All of the teams I personally frequent and will be sharing have a mega and they all are either Sableye or Aggron, so I will proceed with my experiences and insight on these two. However, be sure not to limit yourself with your own builds/experimenting with stall if you wish to expand your horizons further than I currently have done so as an individual.
Mega Sableye is easily the most common mega evolution on stall and perhaps the third most common Pokemon on the archetype overall, behind Chansey and Zapdos. Mega Sableye is ridiculously practical on stall teams thanks to the ability Magic Bounce, letting it work in conjunction with Defog/Rapid Spin cores to assure that hazards are kept off the field as much as possible. Oftentimes, hazards being up combined with specific threats, switching sequences being provoked, or a combination of the two leads to the downfall of stall. Checks and counters only remain checks and counters if they are kept somewhat healthy, which hazards being up consistently can easily prevent. Therefore, one of the clear priorities of stall is to have consistent covergae of the hazard metagame, which is where Mega Sableye comes in to play. Non-Z Heatran, Gliscor, Non-Z Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, RH Garchomp, Chansey, some Protean Greninja, and Mega Aggron can almost never set up hazards if facing a well-played Mega Sableye stall, thus making the match-up ridiculously more favorable than it otherwise would be. On top of this, Pokemon that are capable of setting up Stealth Rock regardless due to their effectiveness against Mega Sableye, such as Mega Diancie, Clefable, Z Heatran, Z Landorus-T, Ash Greninja, Mega Tyranitar, and Z Garchomp, still have to think twice before clicking a hazard setting move in confidence due to Mega Sableye's presence and also honestly the presence of Mega Sableye has bolstered the viability of a number of these hazard setters, attesting to how viable it is.
Mega Aggron is far less defined in its roll than Mega Sableye, perhaps showing why it is not only less common, but also seen as more of a niche option given its current place in the viability rankings in C rank. With this said, it is a naturally strong and durable Pokemon, making it very worthwhile in certain contexts. Mega Aggron is perhaps the best counter the game has to offer to non-Focus Punch Mega Mawile, Mega Aggron is able to 1v1 any non-Z Fire Heatran, Mega Aggron pressures cores with Clefable, Tornadus-Therian, and/or Toxapex while also setting up Stealth Rock, thus making it super helpful when it comes to actually winning games, and Mega Aggron when given Wish support is able to turn a lot of difficult situations into manageable ones given proper execution (general sentiment, but still holds true and examples will be provided in replays later). For more on Mega Aggron and what it provides, I would advise reading this post and the one above it.
Unaware / Set-up deterrents
This slot is super straightforward, so hopefully everyone will understand it. Anyway, to briefly go over it: stall teams allow turns to opposing win conditions often due to the lack of consistent pressure they apply. Therefore, these Pokemon can set-up and try to sweep, but Unaware Pokemon can oftentimes thwart those efforts if used properly. Magearna is also listed as it functions in a similar fashion, but I will touch on this more later.
Quagsire is my favorite Unaware Pokemon because it doubles as a Ground type, proving to be very valuable in blocking Volt Switch and just having a generally helpful defensive presence. Overall, Quagsire has respectable utility with Haze and Toxic, making it less passive than it may seem to be. Scald is also a clear asset as the prospect of a burn makes a lot of things think twice about switching in comfortably.
Pyukumuku has seen much better days in the past, but is still a viable Unaware Pokemon. It was much more common on stall earlier in 2018, but you still see it pop up here-and-there. Pyukumuku is a merciless bastard to opposing teams that have specific win conditions that may otherwise do well against stall; with Block + Spite + Rest, Pyukumuku can eliminate entire specific Pokemon that stay in against it while just sitting there sleeping. It is the most passive piece of shit, but it has enough bulk and the right moves to eliminate specific win conditions, so it is a viable option.
Clefable is personally my second favorite Unaware Pokemon; Unaware Clefable is objectively worse than Magic Guard seeing as it takes status and hazard damage, which is basically everything... BUT it still is viable as it gets the job done against a lot of common bulky set-up. In addition, it also provides support to team members by being able to pass Wishes and if you elect to use Calm Mind or Toxic then it can be a lot less passive than it may initially seem to be, which is helpful for trying to make progress.
Magearna does not get the ability Unaware, BUT it does get Heart Swap and this is great against Calm Mind Clefable, Calm Mind Reuniclus, Calm Mind/Shift Gear Magearna, Calm Mind Mega Latias, Calm Mind Tapu Lele, Serperior, etc. Honestly, Magearna is a great Pokemon to have because it gives to a cleric, momentum grabber, decent balanced presence, AND it helps with a number of problematic boosters, including some that Unaware Pokemon can struggle with (i.e: specific Z Reuniclus variants, Calm Mind + Stored Power Clefable, Serperior, and Tapu Lele). Overall, Magearna can not fit on every stall team and more often than not you will want to use an actual Unaware Pokemon like Quagsire, but there are semi-likely circumstances that call for Magearna and these teams are much more versatile in terms of gameplay options given how resourceful Magearna is as a Pokemon I feel.
Defog cores
First and foremost, there are more viable Defoggers than these four. I don't even use Moltres at all myself, but it has been a viable option ever since the WCOP Finals tiebreak game where Bro Fist showed it off, so I wanted to include its little sprite above. Anyway, aside from this group depicted above, viable Defoggers on stall include: literally anything that gets Defog that you feel improves your team more than the alternatives if slotted on it. Do not try to limit yourself when building/testing stall. I would love to see the archetype diversify and new options tried out in the future, so go nuts!
Anyway, instead of going singular Pokemon by Pokemon, I feel like I will be a bit more direct and practical with this explanation. The goal of your Defog core is primarily to assure that you can consistently keep the hazards set by common hazard setters in the metagame off. If this is by threatening the setters out, thus letting you Defog freely, or simply outlasting them thanks to PP/Pressure does not matter, but the task must be done as effectively as possible for a stall team to have the necessary durability to function consistently. Normally, teams have multiple Defog users. Two is most common, but you can encounter a team with three every now-and-then. There are also alternatives like Mega Sableye, Avalugg, etc. that can also play a role in hazard control, which is appreciated.
I have a couple example Defog cores that you will later notice are recurring on the teams I share and I think that these are just solid examples of being able to cover a vast majority of the hazard-setters in the tier, especially when paired with the things mentioned above. Core 1 is by far my most common core and probably the most consistent. This Mew is able to stomach 2 Specs Lele Moonblasts almost always while hard countering Z Heatran and being able to handle max SAtk Mega Diancie. All things considered, it is a ridiculously good utility fit on the teams I use it on and I am glad I figured out this spread when I did. The Zapdos is super standard, but quite effective nonetheless. Zapdos is close to a staple on stall due to some specific favorable MUs it brings to the table and, more importantly, the ability Pressure, letting it outstall things like Stealth Rock Clefable lacking Calm Mind or Toxic and the PP of so many moves. Core 2 is best on Mega Aggron stalls, specifically those with Wish Chansey or Wish Unaware Clefable. Regardless, it is pretty solid at covering as much as possible between just two Defoggers without any Mega Sableye support, but it is strapped in terms of other effectiveness, leading the brunt of the progress-making work outside of Knock/status/potential Gliscor SR to be left on the 4 remaining members. Just to go into a little detail, this Mew is a more PDef oriented set, geared towards stomaching a number of important physical hits and being a top-notch counter to Mega Medicham which is otherwise problematic to non-Mega Sableye stall. The Gliscor set is meant to maximize SDef presence, giving it 4-5% less damage taken by special moves than the normal max HP rest in SDef spread, thus making the odds vs Z Heatran go up significantly. Core 3 is only viable on Mega Sableye stalls, but it is quite good on teams of that sort.
Don't limit yourself to just these, but these are three effective examples of Defog cores that I have integrated into multiple teams in the past with success. I feel like Zapdos is the single best Defogger on stall teams and it should be on a vast majority of stalls, but Mew and Gliscor are also both strong options. Mew is great because it can be used in so many different ways, with the SDef variant in core 1 being a great example of how it can be used to fit a specific mold. Gliscor in general never dies with Poison Heal, can potentially provide Stealth Rock as well, and has a ton of super practical applications. Overall, covering the hazard metagame should be a top priority and if your stall team has noteworthy holes on this front, then odds are you are going to struggle in relevant match-ups to that hole.
FINALLY, and this is separate from Defog cores, there is more than just these things I outlined above to stall teams. However, these are all near essential/common components that I felt it was best to outline. From there, you need to identify what your team needs and what your team is weak to and fill out the remainder in the most optimal way you possibly can, just like building any other team but with the end goal being more drawn-out and stall oriented of course.
Example teams
Here is a visual of all of the stalls I have built and/or used since the start of Smogon Snake Draft II (since August, pretty much). Anyway, I will show the imports and provide explanations for a few of the stalls I have used the most in tournaments and then just share the remainder as I do not feel like sharing a specific mindset over a dozen individual teams, especially when a ton of it is repetitive/overlapping.
Before I go through the teams, YES EVERY STALL TEAM HAS A COUPLE UNAVOIDABLE WEAKNESSES. I hope I don't have to repeat this a million times throughout the next week. If I do, I will regret even going out of my way to make this post. It is an inherent risk of using the playstyle; there are some associated with most playstyles, especially the "extremes" of the metagame.
Import
This team is the team I used vs Hayburner during Smogon Snake Draft II. I will get into the replay as part of the replays section later, but for now I want to go through the team. This was my first Mega Aggron build, so it was a bit of a novel experience for me, making me want to explore every possible option to come up with the optimal supporting cast. I knew Hayburner had a history of using "cheese" and I was kind of paranoid after Kickasser used some Webs against me the week prior, so I decided it was time to consider Buzzwole (and Chesnaught, but that team never really saw the light of day). Buzz is great for blanket checking a number of PDef win conditions, which also takes a lot of stress off of my Unaware Pokemon. Some examples are Zygarde, Mega Heracross (I am using Toxic on this variant to help put it on a timer instead of losing the 1v1 with BU), most Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Tyranitar. From there, I had Mega Aggron, Chansey (staple), and Buzzwole. I knew that I was vulnerable as all hell to hazards, so I threw on my best core of Defoggers to fit for size, which is the aforementioned Mew + Zapdos core that worked so well on a number of teams. Those two worked like a charm and then I just needed Unaware/set-up deterrent, which happened to be Quagsire as it provided me with a Ground type, it learned Haze which made me more comfortable against Reuniclus seeing as I lacked a Dark type, and it was a good fit for the team seeing as it can fit Toxic and my Chansey and Mega Aggron both lacked it. From there, the team was good to go. I tried to touch on the general roles and ideas behind adding each member, but throughout the process I also kept an eye on the list of threats to help decide Pokemon, moves, EVs, etc. I would be glad to answer any specific questions on those details, so feel free to ask here/over VM or PM, but I will not go into that much detail throughout this post as to not make it anymore of a novel.
Import
This is the team that I used vs Ramboss during Smogon Snake Draft II; this team was initially built to use against Posho and it was the first time I stalled a noteworthy tournament game since last Snake, so it sort of was the start of all of this. Instead of starting with Mega Sableye and working my way through, I actually want to say that the start of this team was the aforementioned Defog core of SDef Mew + Zapdos. This core has worked wonders for me so many times as I have alluded to on numerous occasions throughout this post and this is the origin of it. I knew these two plus an eventual Mega Sableye covered whatever I expected, so I threw on Mega Sableye for a few things, including added hazard control, and Chansey, which unfortunately needed SR + Heal Bell here, but sometimes that's what it has to come to. From there, I knew I needed a Mega Mawile check, an Unaware Pokemon/set-up deterrent, and ideally a Ground type over the next few Pokemon (actually, these roles + potentially having SR or Heal Bell to free up space on Chansey, but you will see this specific variant was not able to do that). Anyway, with all of these conditions in mind, I came up with all of these builds, of which the imports of the others will be shown later. I ultimately decided RH Tangrowth + Unaware Quagsire was the best fit for the opponent. The former provided great coverage for Zygarde, Kartana, and Mega Mawile given the set I was using. The latter of which provided a Ground type Unaware Pokemon with important utility moves such as Haze and Toxic.
OH yea before I forget! I made this amusing Google Doc before I played in case I grew uncertain about how to pilot stall seeing as this was my first big stall game in a while and I was not yet confident in my ability to play it, especially if things got more complex. HERE! It is absurdly long and tries to go in depth on every single potentially problematic Pokemon, which shows how fucking uncertain I was of myself going into that game tbh. Turns out I didn't really need it and I won the game without clicking on the tab once, but my MU was petty favorable. Anyway, this is a cool idea for beginners using their own stall teams. Try to write it out/play it out in your head, even if it is just for a small handful of Pokemon as opposed to the whole tier as I probably went pretty overboard here (ok yea 22 pages, I hella did lmao). Anyway, stuff like this being integrated into an approach to give you an extra layer of confidence is cool and I love hearing about how other tournament players approach their games, so I figured including a bit of my personal process for a first stall game could be intriguing for those who are trying to get into it themselves, so i hope this helped, even if it is just to the slightest extent.
Import
This is probably my favorite stall overall and it is the team I have used the most besides the two above that I used in official tournament games. Overall, it has been my go-to when I knew I wanted to stall someone in SmogonTour, but did not have a read on them as to what specific variant of other stall may be the play. Anyway, this team has one admittedly annoying flaw: lack of a Ground type. Tapu Koko is nearing an all-time-low and even then it uses U-turn over Volt Switch almost always, so that's not a big deal, but even then, it or AV Magearna + an annoying Pokemon will require some outplaying as opposed to laid back counterplay like normally, so keep this in mind when piloting this in those specific MUs. The team itself is meant to play a bit like the Ciele/ILovePinkMons stall did back in the hay day of SM, which is why I love it so much in SmogTour and even on the ladder occasionally. Mega Aggron + 2 Wish passers was the idea, leading me to Clefable + Alomomola, both of which helped a ton with Mega Medicham, too (Mola is RH, Clef is just a natural check), which is annoying to non-Mega Sableye stall. Anyway, I don't want to repeat the process as I did above twice already, but same old same old with the Defoggers and the dual wish core was integrated as the initial idea with Mega Aggron as I alluded to above, so from there it is just Chansey as always and picking the optimal sets for the team, which came with some threat-list analysis and trial-and-error on the ladder. This team is probably the most "fun" of any stall team to play for me and I say that entirely seriously -- I actually do enjoy playing stall, who would've thought? Certainly not me ~6 months ago. But anyway, here we are and here's the team!
Here are a bunch of other teams that I have just built or used, but much less than these three:
Do note that in the replays later on in the post, some moves may be different. I CStyled specific opponents who had problematic trends as to make sure I was not in danger whenever I had time to check replays. These imports are what I deem to be consistent variants of each team (or as consistent as possible, anyway). Feel free to change as you please anyway, of course.
- Alternative Mega Aggron Stall
- Chesnaught experiment
- Same 6 as team for Ramboss, but with Eo Tang
- Hippo+Clef over Tang+Quag
- First Avalugg variant
- Fuck Pyukumuku tbh
- Magearna variant
- Pyuku+Avalugg
How-to-play / Example games
First thing is first: I love this subforum, I love to help people, and I love this community. I do not love torture, however. Therefore, instead of going through replay-after-replay and analyzing specific plays/sequences, I will go over some general thoughts/guidelines on piloting stall and then provide example replays that you guys can use to try to connect it all together if you would like to. What you do with this post is totally up to you, but I will provide what is necessary to at least get a grasp given my abilities to help. Given that, here are some personal tips to playing stall:
There is so much more that can be said, but these points stood out to me, especially for when it comes to trying to explain things to likely OU Subforum frequents who may lack experience playing stall. I would be glad to elaborate or go into more depth on anything, so feel free to hmu anytime. Here are some replays:
- Information: Use any and all information you get from your opponents team/play. One piece of information, which can be as small as an EV spread or individual move, can lead to you figuring out multiple full sets/spreads. Once you have their team generally plotted out, you know exactly what you need and how you can best go about walling it, making progress, not compromising your collective defensive presences, and avoiding any potential instances of getting unlucky to lose in favorable match-ups. The information war is huge. If you are playing stall, it is almost nice to not disclose things purposely in some more drawn out scenarios if possible, especially if your opponent is well-versed in the metagame or playing stall. If you are the stall player, use whatever you know to piece the opponent's team together. From there, you can gameplan. PSA: USE THE FUCKING DAMAGE CALC ON ANYTHING YOU CAN PLEASE STOP BEING SO SLOPPY @ THE ENTIRE NEW GENERATION OF POCKET MONSTERS PLAYERS FFS
- Gameplanning: Sometimes, this can be done at team preview without much hesitation. Sometimes, it can be done partially then and then fully once you know more about their team/sets/spreads. And sometimes almost all of it is delayed until a later point when things are sufficiently felt out, if it is not too late and the early game was not too costly. This entirely depends on the opponent and their match-up, which makes sense seeing how reactionary a playstyle stall truly is. Anyway, your goal is to find a way to optimally prevent them from being able to break through significant members of your team/your team as a whole or at least have good odds to break you. It oftentimes becomes cyclical and repetitive in practice, but understanding how to plot a long-term gameplan and executing it is vital for a successful stall player. Your gameplan should also include methods of actually making progress, especially against durable opposing teams. Oftentimes, this centers around stuff as small as keeping rocks up for specific periods/sequences, stalling out specific moves PP so that a Pokemon can no longer threaten one of yours, or conditioning your opponent into a repetitive neutral sequence so that you can eventually take advantage with a more aggressive pivot thrown in to let you do damage, set hazards, status something, etc. This is all largely game dependent, but also insanely important to actually winning games as playing stall is rarely just trying to get the game to physically stall out for hundreds of turns.
- Prioritizing: Arguably a part of gameplanning, but also something that should just generally be of note to people playing stall. You need to know when to push a specific issue in the game and when to back off. You need to know when it is appropriate to stray from your normal sequences/lines of counterplay and when it is not appropriate to do so. You need to be able to gauge risk-vs-reward in a short term and long term fashion if you want to play drawn out games optimally. This probably sounds like some mumbo-jumbo mixture of a fortune cookie and an introductory level investments lecture right about now, but trust me it all has meaning and it will save your ass. There are ALWAYS going to be things you need to win the game when using stall, oftentimes the same things each time. There are SOMETIMES, however, going to be things you can risk in a timely, practical, and calculated fashion that may give you a leg up. Be it through setting SR up, getting an extra status, maybe forcing a trade? who knows, but if you can figure out what you need, what you can play a bit less conservatively, and what gives you some leverage for prediction/middlegrounds/getting the opponent a bit too caught up in their own plays to the point where they later second guess themselves...these things may very well be present in your battle and you need to make the absolute most of them to win vs good players in non-favorable MUs. Make note of this, try to decipher what this means to you, and try to figure out what it means in the context of specific games and you will find yourself maximizing your odds more often than not.
- Details: Health, PP, EV spreads, items, status, etc. -- do not forget any of these things. This is going to be brief and to the point. Newer players often overlook specific routes to victory for more common, generally effective ones they frequent in other match-ups with other archetypes. This is not going to get you very far with stall. You need to pay attention to each and every last detail, especially with regards to PP and EV spreads. That helps decipher some information above, get you to a point where you can make progress in your gameplan, etc. This stuff is all intertwined after all as it is the same game of Pokemon, but please do yourself a favor and be careful, pay attention to the details, and do NOT click.
I'd be fine going through a battle here-or-there just to explain my specific mindset, gameplan, priorities, etc., so feel free to contact me individually if you would like, but going through multiple and doing so consistently or all in this post for the sake of showcasing my thought process feels like it'd be way too much, so for now I'll leave it at that.
- vs Ramboss for Smogon Snake Draft II
- vs Hayburner for Smogon Snake Draft II
- vs Tech Froakies for finals of Stone's Money Tour
- vs Red Shredder for STour
- vs BNT for STour
- vs BlueIvy for STour
- vs Cielbakasan vs STour
- vs IPF for Stone's Money Tour
- vs Egor for God's Among Us
- vs Casparov for God's Among Us
- vs Trap for STour
- vs Frisoeva for STour
- vs DanDaMan99 for STour
- vs TDW for STour
- vs Clownlink for STour
- vs Energy for STour
- vs lyd for God's Among Us
Tiering implications
I was not sure if I wanted to include this section or not, but I think it is for the best. I think that stall has potential to be ridiculously good, even if people will likely adapt to it more-and-more over time if it gains traction. Do I think there is a chance that we could be in another position where stall is good enough to warrant some sort of suspect in the future? Maybe, it is not impossible. I would 100% not support a suspect of anything stall related currently, however. I would love to see more people experiment with stall, perhaps even find the next BIG stall during SPL/STour playoffs/OST or something. That could put it over the edge -- who knows? Certainly not me! Regardless, I think that this is something the general public needs to take more seriously and try out more as it is being overlooked a ton right now. I think that SM has a lot of evolving left to do and some of that can be found within the stall archetype, so hopefully this post and the resources provided throughout it can help provoke a more diverse metagame full of playerbase realization and perhaps the evolution of SM OU as we know it.
s/o mortimer the mighty bagon for the inspiration, finch out
