Underrated fire Pokemon

Maestro_Arena

We´re seeing a lot of Infernapes, Infernapes, Infernapes...but there are some very good fire Pokemon that have improved with the new changes.

Arcanine: 110 Atk, 100 Sp. Atk, 95 Spd. It can be a good Choice Bander or use Howl for raise its attack. It has a lot of good physical attacks: Flare Blitz, Extremespeed, Crunch, Reversal, or Thunder Fang. And it has the always cool Intimidate.

Rapidash: 110 Atk, 105 Spd. A great choice bander with Flare Blitz, Megahorn, Poison Jab, or Double Kick for Tyranitar.

Ninetales: 100 Sp. Def and Spd. Nasty Plot. It has Extrasensory and Energy Ball. And 70 Accuracy Hypnosis.

Houndoom: 110 Sp. Atk, 95 Spd. You´ll always be very cool, Houndoom. Beat Up owns Blissey. It Nasty Plots for attack with powerful special attacks like Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb or Dark Pulse.

Magmortar: 125 Sp. Atk. Unfortonately, it only has 83 of Spd, then Choice Scraf would be useful por Magma evo. A Choice Scraf Magmortar can surprise some water Pokemon with Thunderbolt. It has some good fire attacks, Psychic, Focus Blast, and Solarbeam for the Sunny versions.

Entei: 115 HP, 115 ATK, 100 Spd. Great Choice Bander. Unfortanetely, it hasn´t Fire Blatz (WTF?); its best fire physical attack is Fire Fang. But hey, it has Stone Edge. It can Calm Mind too (it has Shadow Ball, Overheat and SolarBeam in its special repertory.
 
Rapidash and Ninetales are my two favorite fire types! Goukazaru is nice, too, but he's kind of ugly.

I have a question... I caught an Adamant Ponyta, and I just evolved it for the Elite Four. What is a good moveset for it? Flare Drive/Megahorn... and what else?
 
If this is Ingame Kristy, you might want Bounce, because Ingame trainers dont tend to swap/protect and with Flare Blitz, you'll wanna stay out of danger for as long as possible
 
Er, it's not an "excuse". It's a fact. 'Zard can't switch in more than one or two times with Stealth Rock on the field, and Bellyzard loses to SandStream.
 
I am disappointed no one so far has mentioned the OTHER Solid Rock Pokemon; Camerupt in this thread. Great Attacking Stats, good enough defenses and a nice new ability to help it out. You can now make a completly Special Attacking Camerupt thanks to Earth Power and it finally getting Solarbeam, or Go Mixed and Mess with Blissey. And Besides Camels are sexay! :-p

Edit: Oh yea and mega points for being able to work in Sandstorm and only taking neutral damage from stealth rock...
 
this topic's lack of heatran is X( good enough speed 130 special attack good enough defenses and HP and even enough attack to make blissy worry about explosion
neutral to stealth rock
4x resists ice/bug/steel/grass 2x resists ghost/normal/dragon/dark/flying/psychic
immune to toxic and fire attacks thanks to flash fire
Can wisp would be EQing switch-ins
 
AJC said:
this topic's lack of heatran is X( good enough speed 130 special attack good enough defenses and HP and even enough attack to make blissy worry about explosion
neutral to stealth rock
4x resists ice/bug/steel/grass 2x resists ghost/normal/dragon/dark/flying/psychic
immune to toxic and fire attacks thanks to flash fire
Can wisp would be EQing switch-ins
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"Underrated fire Pokemon"
 
Imp said:
"Underrated fire Pokemon"
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Heatran IS underrated compared to most other Pokemon. People take one look at his 4x EQ weakness and forget him. It's a shame too, as Fire is such a good type against some "supposed" metagame standards.

Stealth Rock is also rarer then all the hype expected from what I've seen in the RMT forum. I guess 1 of 24 moveslots just to inflict 12.5% usually just isn't worth it.
 
It's great how this kind of threads always attracts members that are always able to tell what "people in general" seem to think. And how these members in particular are able to tell a Pokemon is "underrated" as if they are so much more knowledgable and know exactly how good a Pokemon is.

Most Fire types simply do not cut it in standard. You cannot really deny it. If you use Arcanine with Howl, why wouldn't you just use Infernape with Swords Dance? You'll get much more power out of it...you simply cannot tell me a few less defensive weaknesses and Intimidate are worth trading for Fighting STAB, Stealth Rock neutralty and lots and lots of better moves.

This excuse is so annoying. With proper set up, Bellyzard seems a lot more deadly this gen then he did the previous one. Also, CSZard seems cool to me as well.
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With proper set-up Castform sweeps teams. The most proper set-up Charizard can have is Belly Drum, and Sand Stream + Stealth Rock fucks that up. And both of these are popular in WiFi, apparently. Also it isn't just 12.5%. It's 25% on Gyarados, Zapdos and Salamence, three of the most threatening Pokemon in the game. It's 50% on Moltres, who would be pretty incredible otherwise.

Just needed to blow some steam here.
 
Heatran is semi-underated. In other words, used yet noyt thought of.

Rapidash is underated. Really, Flash Fire+Charcoal+Flare Drive Hurts. Doubel Poweder is also nice. 105 Speed buts it a a very nice level.

Rapidash @ Charcoal/Leftovers
Jolly Nature *24 HP, 252 ATK, 232 SPD*
-Flare Drive
-Will-o-Wisp
-Hypnosis
-Megahorn
Simply premise. Switch in on a Fire Base sweeper. Sleep them. Use Will-o-Wisp for the obvious switch-in. Flare Drive everything else. Megahorn if needed.
 
Mekkah said:
Most Fire types simply do not cut it in standard. You cannot really deny it. If you use Arcanine with Howl, why wouldn't you just use Infernape with Swords Dance? You'll get much more power out of it...you simply cannot tell me a few less defensive weaknesses and Intimidate are worth trading for Fighting STAB, Stealth Rock neutralty and lots and lots of better moves.

With proper set-up Castform sweeps teams. The most proper set-up Charizard can have is Belly Drum, and Sand Stream + Stealth Rock fucks that up. And both of these are popular in WiFi, apparently. Also it isn't just 12.5%. It's 25% on Gyarados, Zapdos and Salamence, three of the most threatening Pokemon in the game. It's 50% on Moltres, who would be pretty incredible otherwise.

Just needed to blow some steam here.
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Yeah. The constant problem that I see in the metagame is that some Pokemon are just completely overshadowed because they're surpassed by another Pokemon in every way. Arcanine is a good example. It's a good Pokemon, but why should someone use this when there's clearly something that can do the job much more easily and efficiently. There's not enough variety in some Pokemon to merit the use out of the overshadowed ones. I completely understand and agree.

I like wry humor. :P Any Pokemon with proper set up can sweep teams. Stealth Rocks and Sandstream are becoming a large menace. Sigh... I agree here as well.
 
Mekkah said:
Most Fire types simply do not cut it in standard. You cannot really deny it. If you use Arcanine with Howl, why wouldn't you just use Infernape with Swords Dance? You'll get much more power out of it...you simply cannot tell me a few less defensive weaknesses and Intimidate are worth trading for Fighting STAB, Stealth Rock neutralty and lots and lots of better moves.
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I would say that, yeah, a few less defensive weaknesses and Intimidate ARE valid reasons to use Arcanine over Infernape. What it boils down to is that Arcanine can switch in on more things, while Infernape has trouble doing so without getting mauled by something nasty.

Combine this with the fact that Arcanine has Extremespeed and a stronger Flare Blitz withbetter HP to handle the recoil, and I'm not totally seeing the complete dominance of Infernape over Arcanine.
 
SDShamshel said:
I would say that, yeah, a few less defensive weaknesses and Intimidate ARE valid reasons to use Arcanine over Infernape. What it boils down to is that Arcanine can switch in on more things, while Infernape has trouble doing so without getting mauled by something nasty.

Combine this with the fact that Arcanine has Extremespeed and a stronger Flare Blitz withbetter HP to handle the recoil, and I'm not totally seeing the complete dominance of Infernape over Arcanine.
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Despite the fact that I love Arcanine, I just cant agree with that. Stealth Rock being so common this gen, Arcanine's switch in advantage over Infernape is pretty much cancelled. That 12.5% extra can really hurt. Plus, Infernaper has a very respectable Speed stat of 108, which can outspeed a lot of things, so that sort of cuts the Extremespeed argument too. But it is always nice to be able to attack first with an 80 base power attack.


Despite all this, Arcanine is a very respectable pokemon, which can definitely hold its own in the OU environment.
 
Honestly if Rapidash is gonna use Status moves with under 100% Accuracy it either needs Focus Sash or the Accuracy boost item.
 
What about Blaziken. He seemed to be completely forgotten yet he can do many similar things as Infernape but pack a harder punch.
 
No he shouldnt even be compared to Infernape. I hate how people compare them two when each have completely different styles of play.

If I am going to use Blaziken I would use it as a Starter or a Revenge Killer.

Blaziken @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
252 Attack/200 Speed/ Rest in Hp

Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Brick Break/Focus Punch
Stone Edge/Night Slash

Blaziken @ Leftovers/Focus Sash/Something

Agility
Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Substitute

Wow who is gonna Taunt a Blaziken?

Typhlosion is definitely Underrated. It gets Eruption and has 100 Base speed to utilize effectively. It does ~300 Damage to Blissey with CSpecs. Don't say Stealth Rock WEAK since it could always be a good starter. Also no love for Entei, Blissey definitely can't beat it. 101 HP Subs, can CM under them for some unbreakable Subs. Good Speed too.
 
I´d forgotten Entei.

Entei: 115 HP, 115 ATK, 100 Spd. Great Choice Bander. Unfortanetely, it hasn´t Fire Blatz (WTF?); its best fire physical attack is Fire Fang. But hey, it has Stone Edge. It can Calm Mind too (it has Shadow Ball, Overheat and SolarBeam in its special repertory.
 
yoshididdy Ur wrong. They SHOULD be compared. Same typing, similiar style and movepool, with the only difference being Reversal and BP, and neither are great. Brave Bird unstabbed isn't that good as well. Infernape has the speed, it outspeeds Garchomp, Salamence and others, Blaziken does not. Therefore, Infernape wins, Blaziken not.

SO STOP BEING BIASED KTHNX.
 
Houndoom is awesome. NP/FB/DP/HPGrass can rape. Or you could put flamethrower over FB for the PP. Will-O-Wisp can get in there too, as can substitute. Sludge bomb is kinda pointless imo, but it's there. It can Choice Specs decently as well. Don't forget Flash Fire either, put that together with NP, Blast/Thrower and HP Grass, and you have one fucking scary Houndoom.
 
yoshididdy said:
No he shouldnt even be compared to Infernape. I hate how people compare them two when each have completely different styles of play.

If I am going to use Blaziken I would use it as a Starter or a Revenge Killer.

Blaziken @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
252 Attack/200 Speed/ Rest in Hp

Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Brick Break/Focus Punch
Stone Edge/Night Slash
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Infernape is a speedy, hardhitting Fire/Fighting with bad defenses, best used with a Choice item or +2 stat-upper.

Blaziken is a slow, hardhitting Fire/Fighting with bad defenses, in this case using a Choice item but also known for using +2 stat-uppers.

I can totally see how they're different. I can't see how it's an endorsement of Blaziken.


As for that set, what is this revenge-killing? (This comes in, in comes a bulky water, who lols at the switch-in hit and forces you right out.) Why can't Infernape do exactly this same set, with more speed and Close Combat > Brick Break and without the strictly-filler Brave Bird? (PROTIP: Nothing that fears Brave Bird doesn't also fear STAB Flare Blitz.)

Blaziken @ Leftovers/Focus Sash/Something

Agility
Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Substitute

Wow who is gonna Taunt a Blaziken?
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This set is really bad with Blaziken's meh 80/70/70 defenses unless you use Focus Strip, and Focus Strip/BPass gimmicks don't stand up to Sand/Hail/Spikes/SR. (Focus Sash/BPass is lol; do you really want to bet a Poke on a 10% chance?)

Typhlosion is definitely Underrated. It gets Eruption and has 100 Base speed to utilize effectively. It does ~300 Damage to Blissey with CSpecs.
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Eruption Typhlosion is a gimmick, but it may be a fun gimmick.

Don't say Stealth Rock WEAK since it could always be a good starter.
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Well, its SR weak is especially relevant because you can't effectively use the Eruption gimmick again after switching in on SR.

Also no love for Entei, Blissey definitely can't beat it. 101 HP Subs, can CM under them for some unbreakable Subs. Good Speed too.
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Blissey doesn't come in on Entei who is now a physical attacker lol. (I hear Raikou doesn't have any Skarmory troubles any more either. ¬_¬)
 
I think I might try physical Reversal Houndoom again in DP. Now that it has physical Crunch for a second STAB, it should be more dangerous, especially since it now hits Psychics ad fat Bloss harder. Skarmory of course, stll has no business being in and will be flambe'd. Heracross can't get the drop on it either unless it is AS, but obviously neither of those things will ever switch in to each other.

Houndoom @ Leichi Berry
Hasty (+Spd, -Def)
<Flash Fire>
EVs: 8 HP/248 Atk/252 Speed
~ Substitute
~ Reversal
~ Crunch
~ Fire Blast

Stealth Rock is nuetral to Subversal-Doom, since it always shaves off 1/4 HP. Annoying, but since Houndoom forces switches it can still pull off a Sub. Div/4 +1 HP to abuse Reversal. I may consider Div/4 HP just in case I run into flabby TTar.
 
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