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Metagame Twisted Dimension [OMotM December!] (Balance changes, Page 5!)
- Thread starter VannAccessible
- Start date
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) wya??
Interesting metagame. This metagame for some weird reason reminds me of Flipped with how the metagame is turned upside down, although Flipped we did have the benefit of fast mons like Dragapult and Noivern having min maxxed defensive utility. Here, defensive answers are trickier to find since nothing really "sticks" out compared to the offensive stuff.
We forgot about this mon??? They call my boy jack of all trades because he steals your mon if you 1v1 him. I can see this running Swords Dance (with various items: Punching Gloves, Booster, Boots and maybe even resist/pinch berries), Choice Band, and even the occasional AV. 50 speed is a bit on the faster side since you get outsped by Ursaluna, but you do outspeed Daunt and tank Aqua Jet. Honorable mention to Pincurchin who supports Hands and is a crafty mon in its own right.
Avalugg is probably better mon than Avalugg-Hisui because Hisui isn't a good enough offensive mon even with that coverage 
. Having an absolute unit like Avalugg with reliable recovery move and absurdly minmaxxed stats is ALWAYS a positive for the meta. The downside is that there are a lot of slow Fighting, Steel and Rock types in this meta, so it's not as reliable as something like Dozo or Garg at this job.
Gutted by Sleep Moves clause but having a pivot with such low speed is always helpful in a metagame like this. Red card Amoonguss could even be a legit mon because you mess with a lot of set up sweepers with that typing and bulk (similar to OU if you think about it).
Not the best physically defensive mon in the metagame, but Hippowdon has a lot utility in this metagame with good bulk on both sides and access to Slack Off. Yes, it competes with Ting-Lu but this could be an option for more defensively inclined teams that would like to keep their ground-type alive. 
Palossand deserves a nod since it's a Ground that is immune to Facade from Luna, denys Hammer arm speed drops and does even better into Iron Hands than Hippo/Ting, but the Dark-type weakness is pretty brutal.
Lead golem-alola has always been an interesting mon, but it might actually be bit more feasible here. Sash Galvanize Explosion or sturdy vanilla explosion are both options I can see being used here from time-time. Magnet Pull Alolem seems okay, but it's not like Magnezone is terribly nerfed or anything.
Vikavolt now takes the mantle of a blazing fast and incredibly special attacker with some actually neat defensive utility. Electric/Bug/Grass isn't the best coverage, but I think it allows Vikavolt to hit a wide pool of mons for massive damage. Remember, this beetle has 145 special attack. The only downside is that Vikavolt doesn't get any set up moves and has a noticeable Rock weakness.
If Torkoal does end up being banned (which I think it likely will), Camerupt can be a nice replacement for it. Fire and Ground coverage is nifty in this metagame since a lot of go-to Fire-type answers don't like Earth Power. It's unfortunate that a mon as middling has Camerupt has a speed stat of 40 because that is, conveniently, slower than many would be annoyances such as Slowking and even Garg/Pex (stuff you're supposed to beat!). Also a noticeable power drop since you're not working with Drought.
Diancie is a Pokemon with a lot of bag of tricks with Calm Mind, Meteor Beam, Iron Defense sets, Double Dance, Hazards, and even a defensive pivot set with Heal Bell being sound theoretical options. The only issue is that Diancie's bulk is undercut by its lack of recovery and notable weaknesses to Steel, Ground, Water and Grass. Even if this doesn't end up being an S rank or A rank, I think it'll find its place in the meta.
Am I missing something here? I feel like Araquanid is a mon that benefits from 90% of OMs in any shape or form, but doesn't always hold its own because of its stats and movepool. Araquanid isn't the fastest or the strongest, but MAAAN does this thing pack a punch. Drizzle being freed means that this mon is able to dish out crazy damage to resists. For reference: 252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. The only reason I wouldn't test this mon immediately is because 1) it needs Choice Band for ludicrous damage (meaning you get outsped by Iron Ballers) 2) Pex, Slowbro and other bulky waters can take a hit and retaliate first.
Interesting metagame. This metagame for some weird reason reminds me of Flipped with how the metagame is turned upside down, although Flipped we did have the benefit of fast mons like Dragapult and Noivern having min maxxed defensive utility. Here, defensive answers are trickier to find since nothing really "sticks" out compared to the offensive stuff.
We forgot about this mon??? They call my boy jack of all trades because he steals your mon if you 1v1 him. I can see this running Swords Dance (with various items: Punching Gloves, Booster, Boots and maybe even resist/pinch berries), Choice Band, and even the occasional AV. 50 speed is a bit on the faster side since you get outsped by Ursaluna, but you do outspeed Daunt and tank Aqua Jet. Honorable mention to Pincurchin who supports Hands and is a crafty mon in its own right. Avalugg is probably better mon than Avalugg-Hisui because Hisui isn't a good enough offensive mon even with that coverage . Having an absolute unit like Avalugg with reliable recovery move and absurdly minmaxxed stats is ALWAYS a positive for the meta. The downside is that there are a lot of slow Fighting, Steel and Rock types in this meta, so it's not as reliable as something like Dozo or Garg at this job. Gutted by Sleep Moves clause but having a pivot with such low speed is always helpful in a metagame like this. Red card Amoonguss could even be a legit mon because you mess with a lot of set up sweepers with that typing and bulk (similar to OU if you think about it). Not the best physically defensive mon in the metagame, but Hippowdon has a lot utility in this metagame with good bulk on both sides and access to Slack Off. Yes, it competes with Ting-Lu but this could be an option for more defensively inclined teams that would like to keep their ground-type alive. Palossand deserves a nod since it's a Ground that is immune to Facade from Luna, denys Hammer arm speed drops and does even better into Iron Hands than Hippo/Ting, but the Dark-type weakness is pretty brutal. Lead golem-alola has always been an interesting mon, but it might actually be bit more feasible here. Sash Galvanize Explosion or sturdy vanilla explosion are both options I can see being used here from time-time. Magnet Pull Alolem seems okay, but it's not like Magnezone is terribly nerfed or anything. Vikavolt now takes the mantle of a blazing fast and incredibly special attacker with some actually neat defensive utility. Electric/Bug/Grass isn't the best coverage, but I think it allows Vikavolt to hit a wide pool of mons for massive damage. Remember, this beetle has 145 special attack. The only downside is that Vikavolt doesn't get any set up moves and has a noticeable Rock weakness. If Torkoal does end up being banned (which I think it likely will), Camerupt can be a nice replacement for it. Fire and Ground coverage is nifty in this metagame since a lot of go-to Fire-type answers don't like Earth Power. It's unfortunate that a mon as middling has Camerupt has a speed stat of 40 because that is, conveniently, slower than many would be annoyances such as Slowking and even Garg/Pex (stuff you're supposed to beat!). Also a noticeable power drop since you're not working with Drought. Diancie is a Pokemon with a lot of bag of tricks with Calm Mind, Meteor Beam, Iron Defense sets, Double Dance, Hazards, and even a defensive pivot set with Heal Bell being sound theoretical options. The only issue is that Diancie's bulk is undercut by its lack of recovery and notable weaknesses to Steel, Ground, Water and Grass. Even if this doesn't end up being an S rank or A rank, I think it'll find its place in the meta. Am I missing something here? I feel like Araquanid is a mon that benefits from 90% of OMs in any shape or form, but doesn't always hold its own because of its stats and movepool. Araquanid isn't the fastest or the strongest, but MAAAN does this thing pack a punch. Drizzle being freed means that this mon is able to dish out crazy damage to resists. For reference: 252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. The only reason I wouldn't test this mon immediately is because 1) it needs Choice Band for ludicrous damage (meaning you get outsped by Iron Ballers) 2) Pex, Slowbro and other bulky waters can take a hit and retaliate first.
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Yeah, Pincurchin looks to be really good. Naturally outspeeds Torkoal, provides Electric Terrain to a threat like Iron Hands, and Electric Terrain even shuts down RestTalk strategies. Plus, fast Zing Zap & Acupressure are nothing to sneeze at.I do not think this mon is good but Spin Out is funny enough to try.
Electric Terrain needs more discussion btw, now that Pincurchin is one of the fastest unboosted mons in the game its support gameplan is much better, and there's a ton of potential in boosting the likes of Iron Hands or Raging Bolt (fun fact! Bolt has sole access to Rising Voltage this gen). If I wasnt on mobile and needing to head back to work in 2 minutes I would spend more time thinking about what can benefit beyond these two as every other future paradox mon has like 90 base speed min.
I really like the idea of an Avalugg + Abomasnow / Slowking-Galar core for Ice Body + Snow boost. Really glad to see one of my favorites seeing immense viability here w/o Tera.Kin+ak (✧∇✧) wya??
Interesting metagame. This metagame for some weird reason reminds me of Flipped with how the metagame is turned upside down, although Flipped we did have the benefit of fast mons like Dragapult and Noivern having min maxxed defensive utility. Here, defensive answers are trickier to find since nothing really "sticks" out compared to the offensive stuff.
Will hazard stack remain viable enough that oft-standby Gholdengo remains relevant? 84 base Speed is middling by OU standards but looks as rusty here as Clefable's base 60 Speed does in OU...and Gholdengo has Clefable-tier bulk. I suppose finally outspeeding Great Tusk is nice, but getting outsped by Kingambit stinks...and the 'Gamb still holds its own at 50 base Speed thanks to Sucker Punch, Supreme Overlord, nice power, a decent defensive typing, and actual bulk. I guess Gholdengo can remain a Glastrier "check" here the same way Deng is already a Kyurem "check" in OU...
'sup boss?Kin+ak (✧∇✧) wya??
Interesting metagame. This metagame for some weird reason reminds me of Flipped with how the metagame is turned upside down, although Flipped we did have the benefit of fast mons like Dragapult and Noivern having min maxxed defensive utility. Here, defensive answers are trickier to find since nothing really "sticks" out compared to the offensive stuff.
That's an incredibly interesting OM, permanent TR is awesome, and being able to like run
how does reg TR work here? (I swear Im not gonna load Deo speed TR)
not an om expert at all but I think most stuff running a minimum of 252 bulk ev investment probably is going to impact the gameplay of this metagame a metric fuckton and that might be something being underlooked here. Slow mons already tend to be quite fat, and if u look at all the mons people have been mentioning so far lot of them already have the natural bulk to eat most super effective hits from full. Because of that I imagine OHKOes will generally be much harder to achieve here than in standard formats.
From this I'm tempted to conclude screens and/or weakness policy (potentially paired together) might end up be very strong! Especially if there are mons out there able to break through the raw bulk of things after a boost (such as glastrier who sounds kinda insane to me.)
Also Iron Ball being the new and much better choice scarf is funny lol
From this I'm tempted to conclude screens and/or weakness policy (potentially paired together) might end up be very strong! Especially if there are mons out there able to break through the raw bulk of things after a boost (such as glastrier who sounds kinda insane to me.)
Also Iron Ball being the new and much better choice scarf is funny lol
regular tr will not work, the mods have said that making it work right would be too close to modding the game.'sup boss?
That's an incredibly interesting OM, permanent TR is awesome, and being able to like runTrick room Deoxys-speedCB Glastrier will defo be sth new to me
You seem to be missing the key point: moves affected by Stall, Lagging Tall, Mycelium Might, Custap Berry, Quick Claw, and Quick Draw remain in their original priority bracket (they are moved to the beginning or the end of the priority bracket, not to a different bracket). Prankster increases a move's priority bracket, Quick Claw does not.
I'm back with another banger set.
Snorlax @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm
React if we are absolutely cooked.
Snorlax @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm
React if we are absolutely cooked.
How is the move order reversal actually implemented? Does it just use the same code as Trick Room?
How play dis
lower your speed stat to the bare minimum and sweep
How does Room Service interact with the perma-Trick Room? Does it auto proc?
May I propose to you possibly one of the most annoying threats in this metagame?
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Night Shade
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
In a metagame filled to the brim with Body Presses, this thing will thrive. An excellent speed tier just 5 points faster (or slower in this case) above / below Torkoal, Wisp neuters Body Press spam, Haze to erase Curse boosts, Pain Split+ Night Shade to whittle down bulky threats. Not many threats carrying Dark or Ghost coverage to take it out. I personally think that it will be a major menace going forward.
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Night Shade
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
In a metagame filled to the brim with Body Presses, this thing will thrive. An excellent speed tier just 5 points faster (or slower in this case) above / below Torkoal, Wisp neuters Body Press spam, Haze to erase Curse boosts, Pain Split+ Night Shade to whittle down bulky threats. Not many threats carrying Dark or Ghost coverage to take it out. I personally think that it will be a major menace going forward.
Trick Room isn't really active and fails when used, so Room Service would probably be useless. Meta only affects speed tiers, so it is meant to mimic the TR experience without actually giving you TR.
Why are Solgaleo
and Ho-oh
not included on the banlist? was this a mistake or is it intentional?
As to not keep this a one-liner, here's a funny guy
Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Facade/Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
20 base speed + belly drum + cheek pouch might finally make this a considerable threat
And i hope the speed halving items(
etc) don't last too long because a stronger choice scarf with no drawback sounds really unbalanced and feels like it ruins the whole gimmick of the metagame
and Ho-oh not included on the banlist? was this a mistake or is it intentional?As to not keep this a one-liner, here's a funny guy
Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Facade/Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
20 base speed + belly drum + cheek pouch might finally make this a considerable threat
And i hope the speed halving items(
etc) don't last too long because a stronger choice scarf with no drawback sounds really unbalanced and feels like it ruins the whole gimmick of the metagameWhy are Solgaleo
As to not keep this a one-liner, here's a funny guy
Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Facade/Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
20 base speed + belly drum + cheek pouch might finally make this a considerable threat
And i hope the speed halving items(
being unbanned is 100% intentional, idt its all that busted here due to needing to drop a move if it want recovery, however being unbanned is not something i noticed when looking over it, and it absolutely doesnt belong here, good catch. as for ... its kinda just a worse 
unfortunately.I think that the Power items and Iron Ball are balanced here because you trade hazard immunity for speed.Why are Solgaleo
As to not keep this a one-liner, here's a funny guy
Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Facade/Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
20 base speed + belly drum + cheek pouch might finally make this a considerable threat
And i hope the speed halving items(
Well, Twisted Dimensions has yet to be coded, and yet we already have a ban;
may drop once more later on after the meta has been established and polished, but for now, this turkey is going back in the oven.
Ho-oh is banned from Twisted Dimensions
This uber was missed by both the council and KaenSoul before the banlist became finalized. While we do plan to consider dropping a few mons later that shouldnt affect the meta that much, but until then, no one wants to keep a mon thats just a headache to deal with.
may drop once more later on after the meta has been established and polished, but for now, this turkey is going back in the oven.
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(Sorry your wings were too spicy for this world.)
chartung17 Ok, I gotchu. I made that distinction in the OP, as well.
These are both great questions, but ones we won’t actually know the answers to until the OM is programmed and implemented. When I know the answers I will let you know and update the OP.
I was told by the powers that be that we will likely not have implementation until we are voted for OMotM. Thankfully, we’re seeing a good amount of hype, so hang in there. :)
———————
On another note, I am absolutely loving the discussion so far. You guys have hit on what a lot of the most dangerous meta staples might be. I’m itching to offer my little ole opinion on what I think will be the biggest meta threats may be, but I also don’t want to dominate the conversation. Maybe I’ll pine in on that later.
I love seeing stuff like 
and 
brought up as having contributing roles. You guys are cooking.
your wings were too spicy for this world.)chartung17 Ok, I gotchu. I made that distinction in the OP, as well.
These are both great questions, but ones we won’t actually know the answers to until the OM is programmed and implemented. When I know the answers I will let you know and update the OP.
I was told by the powers that be that we will likely not have implementation until we are voted for OMotM. Thankfully, we’re seeing a good amount of hype, so hang in there. :)
———————
On another note, I am absolutely loving the discussion so far. You guys have hit on what a lot of the most dangerous meta staples might be. I’m itching to offer my little ole opinion on what I think will be the biggest meta threats may be, but I also don’t want to dominate the conversation. Maybe I’ll pine in on that later.
I love seeing stuff like
and brought up as having contributing roles. You guys are cooking.
Looking through all of this so far, love seeing all of these slow Pokemon get the chance to be interesting and viable.
However, looking at the initial ban list, I have to ask... why is Final Gambit banned? The only Pokemon with access to the move are going to be relativelyfast slow for the tier, and other than Annihilape none of them have an amazing HP stat to work with. Is there something I am missing?
However, looking at the initial ban list, I have to ask... why is Final Gambit banned? The only Pokemon with access to the move are going to be relatively
The issue with Final Gambit lies in Copycat chains.
High HP mons like Blissey, Chansey, Vaporeon and Azumarill can use Copycat, and now that they have access to a speed stat, they can go all in with some pretty cheesy FG strats that would be difficult to stop without either a Ghost type, priority or Protect.
Even if they don’t sweep a team on their own, even one of these guys can easily make an advantageous trade with a vital part of an opposing defensive core, allowing the rest of their team to sweep.
Since Copycat has other utility that Final Gambit does not, banning Final Gambit results in the least collateral damage in eliminating this uncompetitive strategy.
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Defiant Kingambit:i would suggest making this covert cloak to beat garganacl!
These mons are going to be fantastic, either as setup sweepers, bulky status spreaders, pivot and progress makers, etc. Being so slow and decently strong is nice, and Slowking comes with the added benefit of resisting Torkoal Eruption.
uh
fun idea: lead webs, court change with cinderace. now you have an ultra slow <insert breaker here>
