Togekiss (Substitute + Thunder Wave)

Mulligan

Mulligan

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/togekiss

[Set]
Name: Substitute + Thunder Wave
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Thunder Wave/Body Slam
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Aura Sphere
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm(+SpD, -Atk)
EV's: 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on site:

  • The metagame has shifted with Heatran, Starmie, and Gengar seeing even more use now that Latias and Salamence are Uber. This is a great alternative to the now defunct Sub/T-Wave Jirachi. Flying and Fighting also still give great overall type coverage.
  • Anyone that has played with/against Sub/T-Wave Jirachi during it's inception can attest to it's annoyance and ragequits it was responsible for. Guaranteed paralysis is extremely annoying for any Pokemon in OU that relies on outpacing it's opponents.
  • 2HKO's all offensive Heatran with Aura Sphere(although they shouldn't dare switch in anyway). 2HKO's min HP/min SpD Tyranitar with same Aura Sphere
  • LO Starmie's best move vs. this Togekiss is Hydro Pump, which is a 3HKO if Stealth Rock is not present. It can go up against SubSplit Gengar one on one and win the damage race, although it will be severely low on HP if Focus Blast hits every time.
Additional Comments:

  • Fire Blast is an alternative offensive option, but only if your team desperately needs the coverage as, without Aura Sphere, Togekiss loses any chance of standing up to Heatran and Tyranitar.
  • You can also forego Aura Sphere for either Wish or Roost, but again you lose coverage against Heatran and Tyranitar. Roost and/or Wish are a consideration, however, if you want to support the team and/or if you decide not to have Rapid Spin support.
  • Body Slam is an option to attempt to paralyze Ground types(mainly Gliscor and Flygon), but even at 60%, the chance of not paralyzing can be off-putting.
  • 72 Speed EV's put you at 214 speed, which is enough to outpace everything after a Thunder Wave bar a Ninjask at +1 speed. An alternative though is to move those EV's to either Special Attack or to max out Special Defense, though more Special Attack EV's don't turn any notable 2HKO's into OHKO's.
Teammates and Counters:

  • It's biggest weaknesses are any Pokemon who carry Stone Edge, Ice Punch or ThunderPunch. Stone Edge from Tyranitar is the biggest threat, hence Aura Sphere being the main choice on this Togekiss(an offensive Tyranitar will take upwards of nearly 60% upon switch-in).
  • Swampert, as with all Togekiss, has beautiful synergy, resisting the Rock attacks aimed at this Togekiss, while Togekiss resists any Grass attacks aimed for Swampert, most of those being special attacks.
  • Togekiss will appreciate a Rapid Spinner so it can use this set with long term planning in mind, just like Jirachi did. If you forego this however, Roost and Wish are options to heal the damage from SR, but know that you will lose the coverage Aura Sphere grants and be less effective vs. Heatran and Tyranitar, as stated above.
  • Wish support from other Pokemon is another choice if you decide not to have Spin support and still want to keep the Flying/Fighting coverage on Togekiss. Ironically, the best Wish supporter for this Togekiss is Jirachi. Jirachi resisits the Rock and Ice attacks that are meant for Togekiss, although it does take neutral damage from Electric attacks. Togekiss is immune Ground attacks and can come in on most Fire moves(bar a Flare Blitz) aimed at Jirachi as Wish heals the damage Togekiss will take.
  • Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are secondary threats as the main user of these attacks in this metagame(Starmie) will barely do 25% with them. Starmie's best option is Hydro Pump vs. this set.

I hope no one else posted this, but I didn't see it anywhere else. Just wanted to know what QC thought about this. I've been using this for a little while and it's surprisingly effective and, if nothing else, catches people off guard. If it looks good, I will go further by doing a full analysis so it can go to the Copyediting phase.

EDIT: Looking back, this is pretty close to the Paraflinch set. If you go for Roost, the only difference is the EV's. I'm wondering if it should be a full analysis or just go to AC(the way it's played is just like how Sub/Twave Jirachi was played, but you can argue that the Paraflinch set can be played the same way if you opt for Substitute on it).
 
Meh I'm not really sure about this set.

SR + Sub means you'll be low on health most of the time and with Lefties as your only form of recovery, if the opponent has SS up then Togekiss will be unable to heal itself.

It also has slightly less bulk than Sub + Twave Jirachi and worse typing. However, I will test this anyway and report back with results.
 
It's 4 move slot syndrome all over again. This set would have a lot of promise if it could also Roost. In general I think I'd prefer Roost over Substitute and then you have a ParaFlincher set with different EV's. Substitute, as someone above mentioned, drains Tog's health so fast. Also, there aren't that many pokemon who Togekiss will actually force to switch to get a Substitute up on. Its typing really lets it down.
 
This is a bad set without roost. And still its not good at all. The type coverage is not there and you need a hell of alot of special attack ev's to beat the #1 pokemon heatran with airslash. So with stealth rocks up you are already at half health under a sub.I will give it a try though.
 
Added a small edit to the OP. All the arguments are fair, but I had forgotten about giving 'Kiss Wish support from other team members, which is in the edit above in Teammates and Counters.

@ comatthew6: Not sure if you meant to take Body Slam out of AC and slash it in with Thunder Wave, as Body Slam is in the AC now. I did slash Body Slam in anyway, though, since it can slow down Gliscor and even moreso, Flygon.
 
This set is not sufficiently different from the sets online to get its own section. Use the subjective changes thread to propose small amendments such as this.
 
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