Togekiss (Choice Specs)

AccidentalGreed

AccidentalGreed

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Alright, so while I'm in a Togekiss mood, I noticed that Togekiss didn't have a Choice Specs set on his analysis. I even Control + F'd the analysis and didn't find any mention of Specs. Whether Choice Specs gets its own analysis or Other Options mention, I'd like to have it be on site.

Status: Quality Control. Please give suggestions and comments (and of course QC stamps are dandy!)

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Aura Sphere
move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 4: Trick / Tri Attack / Shadow Ball
item: Choice Specs
ability: Serene Grace
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Modest

Why This Set Should Be On-Site

  • To go along with Togekiss' fantastic Special Attack, Choice Specs can be held so Togekiss becomes even more powerful
  • Has generally good coverage in Air Slash and Aura Sphere. Coverage is completed with a Fire- or Ghost-type move.
  • With Serene Grace, Togekiss can optimally flinch the opponent, leaving it helpless in Togekiss' KO.
  • The main strategy is to abuse Air Slash. Since it has such good coverage by itself, it should not be too hard to find a target for Togekiss' sweep.
  • Togekiss also has bulk, so this set should be hard to defeat.

Perquisite Set Comments
-Similar to the Choice Scarf set, but with significantly more power and less speed.
-Also has immediate power without the need to set up like the Nasty Plot sets
-This additional power allows Togekiss to more swiftly KO opponents it couldn't before
-Has generally good coverage in Air Slash and Aura Sphere
-Coverage is well completed with a Fire-type move
-If faced against paralyzed or slow opponents, Togekiss can flinch them to death with powerful Air Slashes
-The general strategy is to abuse Air Slash, using Aura Sphere and Flamethrower / Shadow Ball if needed. Aura Sphere is there to compliment Air Slash and OHKO Tyranitar. It also 2HKOes Snorlax and Skarmory.

Additional Comments
-Fourth slot is personal preference. Trick cripples switch-ins and Blissey, whereas Tri Attack provides a powerful secondary STAB.
-Togekiss doesn't mind entry hazard support to sweep more easily
-Timid for Speed so you can outspeed neutral base 90's, and Modest or generally more power. Modest is most recommended with paralysis support so Air Slash flinches more often, though this is fine with Timid as well.
-Fire Blast is a more powerful alternative to Flamethrower, and is acceptable except for less accuracy.
-Whereas Flamethrower is a way to OHKO Scizor without having to rely on flinching, Shadow Ball is specifically to hit Rotom-A, who resists all of Togekiss' other moves.
-Alternate, more bulky spreads can be considered since Togekiss has pretty good bulk. Togekiss doesn't even have to run max Special Attack to function.

-Togekiss has the ability to flinch its counters to death, but cannot rely on luck to do so.
-Common switch-ins are those who resist Air Slash, so have a teammate that can pivot off Electric-, Steel-, and Rock-types. Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Metagross, and Tyranitar are all common Air Slash resistances
-An alternate way of eliminating Rock- and Steel- types, because Togekiss's purpose is to abuse powerful Air Slashes
-Blissey walls Togekiss and could cripple it, even though Togekiss has Trick.
-Gliscor and Flygon can handle Togekiss' weaknesses pretty well, and hits the Rock-, Steel-, and Electric types with Earthquake
-Breloom handles slower Rock- and Steel-types well and also checks Blissey.
-Starmie hits hard with Life Orb Hydro Pump and can run Rapid Spin to keep Stealth Rock off the field
-Thunder Wave + Substitute Jirachi spreads around paralysis and could sweep teams alongside Togekiss. Togekiss also likes an increased Flinch chance and somebody to take Rock- and Dragon-type attacks.
 
Shadow Ball for Rotom-a slashed into the third slot.

Also, it's not really that fast...perhaps a bulkier spread?

Rotom is also a (very) common Flying resist.
 
I think a life orb set is far better than this. To be honest i don't see one situation where choice specs would come in handy over life orb+roost or even leftovers.It might work for 1 turn but then we switch to a resist and wall you.You can run the exact same set and have recovery and the ability to switch moves. Say if rotom or zapdos comes in on your airslash.Then you can simply use flamethrower to finish it off provided you have some entry hazards up.
 
Curtains said:
I think a life orb set is far better than this. To be honest i don't see one situation where choice specs would come in handy over life orb+roost or even leftovers.It might work for 1 turn but then we switch to a resist and wall you.You can run the exact same set and have recovery and the ability to switch moves. Say if rotom or zapdos comes in on your airslash.Then you can simply use flamethrower to finish it off provided you have some entry hazards up.
Click to expand...

I admit that I haven't thought of a pure Life Orb set for Togekiss upon Control + F'ing its analysis for Specs. I would probably mark that as a good idea and all.

However, I'm going to say that Togekiss does have the liberty to use Choice Specs too. With Serene Grace for Flinch abuse, a fantastic Special Attack score, and perfectly good coverage, Togekiss does indeed deserve Choice Specs. In case of Life Orb + Roost, this almost entirely sacrifices Togekiss' bulk for similar damage, and, coupled with Sandstorm, Orb recoil, and opponent-induced damage, Togekiss might not find time to Roost at all. Leftovers is best left to a bulky Nasty Plot set or support set, though I can see an attacking Togekiss with either Life Orb or Leftovers.

Specs, on the other hand, maintains Togekiss' bulk with less sacrifice in addition to boosting the power of its moves much further. This applies to his Speed and Choice Scarf as well. Yes, Togekiss doesn't have the luxury of switching attacks, but nevertheless, all Pokemon need teammates to beat specific counters, like Choice Band Dragonite. Air Slash also has pretty good coverage by itself. Togekiss, like many other Choice users, doesn't necessarily have to beat everything by itself, and have teammates to take care of Zapdos and Rotom-A alternatively. With Trick, Togekiss actually has a way of crippling Blissey-or pretty much anything except dedicated Special Attackers-as well.

As far as bulky EV spreads go, I want to achieve enough Speed so I'm not Spored by Breloom, so I'll devise one. Any suggestions on EV spreads would be helpful, because Togekiss like that Speed.
 
I would say, just slash Choice Specs next to Scarf and rename the set ''Choice'' on the current analysis. The sets are exactly the same, so I don't think it's worth to have both, merging would probably be better if Specs has to go on-site.
 
Nosferalto said:
I would say, just slash Choice Specs next to Scarf and rename the set ''Choice'' on the current analysis. The sets are exactly the same, so I don't think it's worth to have both, merging would probably be better if Specs has to go on-site.
Click to expand...

I was thinking if Specs can't have it's own set, it either should be written alongside Choice Scarf or at least given some mentions throughout the analysis. Choice Specs might not even go Max Speed like the Scarf set and may instead have a bulkier spread.

I also think that if a bulky spread manages to become its main spread, it could be separated from scarf or given paragraph in "choice".
 
I'm not so sure on this. The reason you use a Scarf is so you can Air Slash hax everything and come out unscathed. Choice Specs may have the power to OHKO stuff the Scarf can only 2-3HKO, but most of the time the Scarfer is coming out with less damage.
If the Scarf 2HKOes Pokemon X, say, it has a 57% chance of doing so without being attatcked. 3HKOes, that's 2 chances of 57% in a row, which is about 30% of coming out unhurt. However, the Choice Specs is much slower, and as a result, unless you're up against Mamoswine (who has Ice Shard), Dragonite (ExtremeSpeed), Heatran (usually Scarfed), Breloom, Scizor (Bullet Punch), Tyranitar (can be Scarfed or DD), Empoleon (Agility), Metagross (Agility, Scarf, BP), Magnezone (Scarf), Machamp, or whatever else, you're taking damage for sure. And as shown in the brackets, most of these Pokemon that are slower than Togekiss have ways to get around it. You could invest in a bulky spread, sure, but I would think that these offensive powers (as well as anything faster than you) could easily OHKO you if not 2HKO. And as for the big ones that can't OHKO you (such as maybe Substitute Heatran), I don't think you'll be scoring the KO on them first.

I think a mention in Optional Changes is probably best unless someone can prove me wrong and find an EV Spread that lets Togekiss O-2HKO tons of shit and survive tons of shit at the same time too. don't forget, the Scarfer doesn't worry about Rocks as much because so long as the opponent doesn't have priority it's flinching them to death. Specs needs to switch into Rocks AND take a hit.
 
Rejecting this for a couple reasons:

1: Specs + SR weak? No thanks.

2: Togekiss' STAB doesn't have great coverage as-is, and it's not very fast.

3: Togekiss really benefits from its awesome type coverage, and locking it in is iffy at best.

All in all, Togekiss has a lot more interesting things to do than Choice Specs, which just isn't that good in this metagame.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
Agreeing entirely with SDS, Togekiss really doesn't want to get locked into a move simply for a bit more power. It really hurts its versatility.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
Well, I can see why Choice Specs Togekiss isn't getting much support. Thank you for your criticism, guys. I would like to point out that Choice Specs does have a basis, and that I'm a bit spectacle due to Serene Grace Air Slash and 120 Base Special Attack, but I'll take the rejection with stride. I'll admit that there's problems due to coverage and speed.

Short lived, this was, though I insist this should get a mention in Other Options.
 
3/3. I don't this should even get an AC mention tbh, I can't think of many (if any) situations in which Specs Togekiss would be better than any of it's other sets
 
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