Thunder Wave Blissey = too dangerous?

Lee

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Throughout ADV, Thunder Wave was a staple on Blissey, pissing off fast sweepers and just generally giving Blissey something to do against other things.

But as I was brushing through RMT's, I saw a few posters suggesting that Blissey drops Thunder Wave for Ice Beam so as not to enrage Electivire.

I would advise you to not use t-wave on Blissey. You see, Electivire can come into a Blissey t-wave, and get a 50% speed boost. You don't want to have to deal with that. I would put ice beam over t-wave to hit those pesky dragon types hard.
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On the one hand, Blissey Thunder Waves are very predicable and easy to lure out. Electivire can take these, get a speed boost and start devestating squads with his dangerous movepool.

On the other hand, is Electivire really that common? Well...yes. Is a speed boost Electivire really unstoppable? Obviously not. There's still many things that can switch in (if they predict right), take another hit and OHKO (Metagross, Swampert, Donphan et al).

So what do you intend to do? Keep Your Blissey Thunder Waving, and ignore this potential free stat-boosting switch as just a minor nuisance, or drop Thunder Wave altogether? Maybe just predict a little differently?

And has anyone else had a problem with this, or are me and the other dudes in RMT making a big deal out of nothing?
 
Well, Electivire is pretty common. With the "It's super effective!" moveset from the analysis, he hits 13 out of 17 types SE. He has 379 max attack, and after a speed boost, 405ish speed depending on how many EV's you invest into it. Plus, Lonely with Tbolt OHKO's Skarm IIRC, so you're not really walled by very much.
 
Hehe...well, I don't recall encountering many Blisseys without Thunder Wave, so it was staple in my eyes, aight?

Anyway, it's a formality.
 
Personally I have been thinkin' about this and I'm gonna make another Blissey, because mine (Ice Beam, Seismic Toss, Aromatherapy, Softboiled) is useful in certain situations but just CERTAIN, I rarely use Aromatherapy and nobody switches Dragons on Blissey =S now.

The CM Set looks nice for me, well the good thing is that I can have all of them thanks to Emerald Cloning.
 
Lee said:
Hehe...well, I don't recall encountering many Blisseys without Thunder Wave, so it was staple in my eyes, aight?

Anyway, it's a formality.
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I don't recall encounting blissey at all in RBY, considering it didn't exist yet. Yay for nit-picking!
Edit: meh, beat to it
 
Shit...I think we all know that was meant to say ADV. It's 5.20 am ffs.

Edited.

*embarrased*
 
Electivire cross chop (no choice band) is not a OHKO on blissey.
Blissey's counter to cross chop is a OHKO on electivire.
Case closed.
 
Epistaxis said:
Electivire cross chop (no choice band) is not a OHKO on blissey.
Blissey's counter to cross chop is a OHKO on electivire.
Case closed.
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How many Blisseys actually carry Counter? Seeing as how he was talking "standard" Bliss, I'd say a good none.

Case back open?
 
hay what's up my name's cross chop and i miss 20% of the time and just as much of the time I critical hit, I am a very reliable attack to attempt to counter.
 
Aamto12 said:
How many Blisseys actually carry Counter? Seeing as how he was talking "standard" Bliss, I'd say a good none.

Case back open?
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If you look for help and refuse to change your set, there's nothing I can do. If someone was terribly afraid of electivire, they would carry counter on blissey.

And Jabba, if you want to play a game with 100% guarantees on everything, quit pokemon and take up solitaire or something. :/
 
Don't you get the trend.

T-wave isn't popular because all the Electivires/Dragons, but eventually, later in the metagame, people will start carrying Electivire/Dragon counters, this might lessen the popularity of these Pokemon, so then T-wave might make a come back, then the trend starts all over again.

This is why Ice Beam is popular now, because of the trend demanding Ice Beam.

It's all about trends.
 
Nah, still not a KO. But seriously, even though it is a 2HKO, what is Blissey gonna do back? Seismic Toss? Isn't gonna be too much of a problem for Electivire.
 
I think we've been through that already.

Anyway, what are the chances of Blissey carrying Counter and Thunder Wave? Since Softboiled is neccesary, that leaves you to choose between Seismic Toss, Ice Beam, Aromatherapy, Stealth Rock etc.
 
Lee said:
I think we've been through that already.

Anyway, what are the chances of Blissey carrying Counter and Thunder Wave? Since Softboiled is neccesary, that leaves you to choose between Seismic Toss, Ice Beam, Aromatherapy, Stealth Rock etc.
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Here, I'm assuming YOU'RE the one using blissey. I myself would run:
-Softboiled
-Counter
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave
If you're using electivire, however, simply swap cross chop for focus punch to avoid counter if you're so worried. The problem with blissey and skarm and the rest of those ridiculous standards is that it lures people into thinking the standard set is the only right set.
And been through that already? :/ You haven't posted a thing about it.
 
I agree with Tinnacious in that a lot of the focus around competitive battling has to do with trends. Electivire may be popular now, but when people start carrying hard counters for it, it'll be in a pretty difficult situation.

I don't run Blissey (and nor will I ever), but if it were feasable at all, I would probably try to use a move that wouldn't screw me over. Ie... err... if I say, bring in Blissey against Azelf...or something, and its expecting a Thunder Wave, I'd rather use Seismic Toss on the switch, then if an Electivire ISN'T brought in, proceed to use Thunderwave... depending on what is brought in.

Yes, it requires luck, and shut up, I know Azelf would probably explode in Blissey's face in most cases, but hey, Pokemon is a lot about luck.
 
Yes, but Aamato and Griffin did. So what you're saying is you would still use Thunder Wave? That's all I was asking. Lemme know how it goes. I am genuinely interested in whether Electivire is just gonna view it as a party.
 
Lee said:
Yes, but Aamato and Griffin did. So what you're saying is you would still use Thunder Wave? That's all I was asking. Lemme know how it goes. I am genuinely interested in whether Electivire is just gonna view it as a party.
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To tell the truth, I never use blissey, so it's not about what I'll use, I guess. But counter's always been a good, if not reliable, way to get KOs with blissey, seeing as it can survive physical hits a lot better than you would think. And it works 60% of the time on vire, which is good enough for me!
 
Epistaxis said:
And Jabba, if you want to play a game with 100% guarantees on everything, quit pokemon and take up solitaire or something. :/
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Eh he's not whining about luck, he's saying that countering Cross Chop isn't a total remedy since there's a 20% chance of Blissey being OHKOed or uncovering the fact that it carries Counter.

I see TWave Blissey as a not really bad alternative, even if Garchomp and Electivire can abuse it, threatening special sweepers that Blissey can't really hurt a lot is a good option.
 
The presence of Electivire in the metagame does not nullify the usefulness of Thunder Wave. That's be like saying: Bob might die from cancer anyways, so lets not try to chemotherapy.

I mean, by that line of thought, we should all stop using Thunderbolt. Oo'

And yes, Electivire is very very VERY common. Anytime you see a Gyarados, expect an Electivire (sometimes he's not there, but usually he is). He's a great sweeper when he gets Motor Driven because of his awesome Ground/Ice/Fighting/STAB Electric moveset, but he's mediocre without the boost.


I say, use Thunder Wave, but be sensible about the dangers of Electivire.
 
spies said:
Eh he's not whining about luck, he's saying that countering Cross Chop isn't a total remedy since there's a 20% chance of Blissey being OHKOed or uncovering the fact that it carries Counter.

I see TWave Blissey as a not really bad alternative, even if Garchomp and Electivire can abuse it, threatening special sweepers that Blissey can't really hurt a lot is a good option.
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It WILL be trouble if they critical, but won't be that bad if they miss; the very sight of counter will set up a prediction game in your favour. The only thing they can really do is switch in something, while you can set up stealth rocks, aromatherapy, etc. if you can predict right.
 
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