Pokémon Thievul

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readytolose

readytolose

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Thievul

Dark.png

Base Stats - 70 HP / 58 Atk / 58 Def / 87 SAtk / 92 SDef / 90 Spe

Abilities:

Run Away: No competitive use.
Stakeout [CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE]: Doubles the power of moves used against targets that have switched in this turn.
Unburden: If the Pokemon's held item is lost or consumed, the Pokemon's speed is doubled until it switches out, or it receives a different item or ability.

Level Up Moves:
- [00] Thief
- [01] Thief
- [01] Quick Attack
- [01] Tail Whip
- [01] Beat Up
- [01] Hone Claws
- [12] Snarl
- [16] Assurance
- [22] Nasty Plot
- [28] Sucker Punch
- [34] Night Slash
- [40] Tail Slap
- [46] Foul Play
- [52] Parting Shot
TMs:
- [TM08] Hyper Beam
- [TM09] Giga Impact
- [TM15] Dig
- [TM16] Screech
- [TM21] Rest
- [TM23] Thief
- [TM24] Snore
- [TM25] Protect
- [TM31] Attract
- [TM37] Beat Up
- [TM39] Facade
- [TM40] Swift
- [TM47] Fake Tears
- [TM53] Mud Shot
- [TM56] U-turn
- [TM58] Assurance
- [TM65] Shadow Claw
- [TM66] Thunder Fang
- [TM67] Ice Fang
- [TM68] Fire Fang
- [TM76] Round
- [TM78] Acrobatics
- [TM84] Tail Slap
- [TM85] Snarl
TRs:
- [TR11] Psychic
- [TR12] Agility
- [TR20] Substitute
- [TR26] Endure
- [TR27] Sleep Talk
- [TR29] Baton Pass
- [TR32] Crunch
- [TR33] Shadow Ball
- [TR37] Taunt
- [TR58] Dark Pulse
- [TR68] Nasty Plot
- [TR77] Grass Knot
- [TR81] Foul Play
- [TR90] Play Rough
Egg Moves:
- Quick Guard
- Knock Off
- Howl
- Torment
Notable Moves:

-Dark Pulse
-Psychic
-Parting Shot
-Grass Knot
-U-Turn
-Taunt
-Nasty Plot
-Play Rough
-Foul Play
-Knock Off
-Sucker Punch

Pros:
-Nasty Plot lets it break through slower foes and sweep
-Once Stakeout is released, it will be a great ability for breaking down defensive cores, especially since Dark is a spammable type due to its lack of immunities.

Cons:
-It has pretty bad stats and is quite weak overall
-It's outclassed by faster Unburden users or stronger Nasty Plot users with better coverage
-Although it's fast enough to fight against defensive cores it's outsped by a lot of things
-No secondary STAB typing coupled with very few coverage moves mean it can actually be easy to switch into in spite of Stakeout.

Dynamax Potential:
Thievul can make okay use of Dynamax. Stakeout boosted Dynamax attacks can really hurt and be tough to switch into, and it can benefit from the secondary effects of Max Darkness and Max Mindstorm to facilitate breaking or sweeping. It can also use Dynamax effects to set terrain for itself to activate Unburden.

Potential Movesets:

Thievul @ Psychic Seed / Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Grass Knot

Here's a Nasty Plot Unburden sweeper set. You can activate the terrain seed yourself by using Dynamax Psychic or Grass moves, thus popping your Unburden. Psychic Terrain can protect you from priority which is useful for sweeping, although Grassy Seed can be used too. Of course you can pair this set up with Indeedee or HA Rillaboom (when it releases) if you like, removing the need to set up your own terrain. Thievul can set up on weaker special attackers thanks to its decent Special Defense, potentially boosted by Psychic Seed.

Thievul @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Parting Shot / U-Turn

Once Stakeout is released, this will almost certainly be the go-to Thievul set. The best way to take advantage of Stakeout is to power up your Dark Pulse as much as possible. Stakeout boosted attacks really hurt from this mon and can shred defensive cores if you can get into a position where you force the opponent to switch out. Psychic is Thievul's best coverage move as it hits Fighting-types super effectively and also many Fairy-types for neutral damage. Grass Knot is kinda just there, but it does do a lot to Tyranitar. The last moveslot is a pivoting move, Parting Shot is good to pivot into something else safely, but U-Turn is a good option too cause it can do a bit of damage to the Dark-type switch-ins to Theivul when boosted by Stakeout.

Thievul can actually hit pretty hard if Stakeout activates and the correct move is chosen. For example, it stands a good chance of OHKOing specially defensive Toxapex with Psychic after Stealth Rock damage, has a chance to 2HKO physically defensive Clefable with Psychic on switch-in, and can OHKO physically defensive Rotoms with Dark Pulse on switch-in too. When very well played it can actually pose a threat to defensive cores.

Other potential options:
-Until Stakeout is released, most of Thievul's other options are not worth considering.
-Once it's released Nasty Plot + Stakeout can work as a breaker combined with a sweeper, the main issue is that if you Nasty Plot on the switch you can't take advantage of Stakeout, so it's often better just to fire off an attack, that being said it is worth considering due to its flexibilty.
-A Life Orb set can be used so you can switch moves, and also boosts U-Turn and Play Rough. Play Rough may seem wonky coming from Thievul's 58 base attack stat, but it's Thievul's best move to hit certain potential Dark-type switch-ins such as Hydreigon and Grimmsnarl, and if boosted by Life Orb and Stakeout, it can actually do quite a bit of damage.
-Mud Shot can be chosen over Grass Knot on either set and used to hit Bisharp. Bear in mind that it needs a Stakeout or Nasty Plot boost to OHKO it, and if it doesn't OHKO, you will give it an Attack boost from Defiant.

Final Thoughts:
Yeah it will almost surely make its way to the lower tiers. I think Thievul will find its home in a tier where its capabilities for breaking are appreciated, and its speed tier is more workable, but for now it's pretty much just a meme pick. I like it though, and wish it was more viable. What do you think of Thievul?
 
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I understand why GF puts Stakeout on kinda garbage stuff because it's a really fucking good ability but I'm just curious to see what it would do in the hands of an at least somewhat competent mon.

Yeah this thing is going down. Stakeout is fun and all but you can't do much once something does get in and I have no idea why you would run this as your Unburden Sweeper over Hawlucha unless you really hate Aegislash or something.
 
Thievul is, at least visually, one of my favorite early-route trash pokemon. It'd definitely be untiered if there were a full dex, but with the dexit debacle I could see this guy possibly succeeding in PU. Unfortunately, it's hard-walled by Vullaby, which is exactly the kind of defensive wall I can see thriving in a tier with Thievul's power level, so even then I'm iffy on whether it will thrive down there.
 
So my second-favorite Gen 5 Pokemon basically got replaced with this, huh? No. I want my Zoroark back!

Anyway, even without the National Dex, I don't even know if I see this being tiered at all. Stakeout and Unburden are both great Abilities, but Base 87 Special Attack and Base 90 Speed will only get you so far even with them. With all the other, better Dark-types out there, I see Thievul being a fringe PU mon at best.
 
Mightyena is better visually.

Check it out tho: might be a good pokemon vs certain threats, especially those with high attack, or pokemon who only have one move they can use that is effective against it. (psychic/coverage etc)

Thievul @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Speed
IVs: literally only speed matters
Timid Nature
- Torment
- Taunt
- Protect
- Foul Play


Torment means they can't use the same move twice in a row, so lead with that. when they break your sash as you use torment, unburden activates. alternate between Foul Play and Protect to prevent yourself from taking any damage while racking up damage against your opponent. if you think they're going to use a status move, taunt.


Two Layers of Toxic Spikes are almost a must, as well as Rapid Spin/Defog are pretty much required for this set. Galarian Weezing gets both Toxic Spikes and Defog, so its the best partner, as well as the only pokemon with Defog and Toxic spikes in its movepool.
 
Darvin said:
It'd definitely be untiered if there were a full dex, but with the dexit debacle I could see this guy possibly succeeding in PU. Unfortunately, it's hard-walled by Vullaby, which is exactly the kind of defensive wall I can see thriving in a tier with Thievul's power level, so even then I'm iffy on whether it will thrive down there.
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Considering how broken Unburden might be when Dynamaxed. In theory Thievul might find a tier assuming two factors:
1. There will most likely be an Unburden user on each tier (unless it gets banned to OU ou UU).
2. The worst Unburden user, assuming that gets outclassed on every tier by other Unburden users (or even HA terrain setters), might be the one getting Untiered for sure.

Overall, we already know that Thievul is largely outclassed by Unburden Liepard (or not, due to the latter's lesser special bulk) when fighting for a tier lower than Hawlucha's, Hitmonlee's and Drifblim's, but there are still other comparisons to be made (and people somewhat still prefer Prankster Liepard over Unburden, which might give a spot for Thievul).
 
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Zé Capáu said:
Overall, we already know that Thievul is largely outclassed by Unburden Liepard
Click to expand...

Thievul is a way better Unburden user than Liepard. Liepard has much worse bulk and lacks access to Psychic, but better speed which doesn’t even matter when Unburden lets you outspeed basically everything anyways. Historically, I think Liepard has been used more often as a physically attacker with Prankster utility.
 
Zé Capáu said:
Considering how broken Unburden might be when Dynamaxed.
Click to expand...
It really depends on what kind of setup fodder the tier provides it. Thievul has poor bulk and the only consistent way it has to activate unburden is substitute spamming. Moreover, without an item or ability to boost its offenses it can't really kill stuff without getting to +2. Even an uninvested Eviolite Machoke easily lives a 252+ Thievul Max Mindstorm and KO's easily without needing to dynamax itself. Getting both unburden and +2 is difficult on such a frail mon.
 
Its_Lorelei said:
Mightyena is better visually.
Click to expand...

Search it on DeviantART then tell me you feel the same way.

Anyhow this thing is kind of cool. Shame literally all of its stats are bad. Even Stakeout is kind of wasted as low base power moves mean it can't force switches as easily. Thievul has an awful movepool as well. Even Gumshoos is much stronger due to higher BP moves and coverage. But then again Gumshoos is dead so... I guess Thievul might see use in lower tiers or as a gimmick.
 
readytolose said:
Thievul is a way better Unburden user than Liepard. Liepard has much worse bulk and lacks access to Psychic, but better speed which doesn’t even matter when Unburden lets you outspeed basically everything anyways. Historically, I think Liepard has been used more often as a physically attacker with Prankster utility.
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I see. I thought Liepard was better for having more terrain options from its physical movepool, but neglected Thievul's special bulk which is useful for Dynamaxing.
 
MrHands said:
Anyhow this thing is kind of cool. Shame literally all of its stats are bad. Even Stakeout is kind of wasted as low base power moves mean it can't force switches as easily. Thievul has an awful movepool as well. Even Gumshoos is much stronger due to higher BP moves and coverage. But then again Gumshoos is dead so... I guess Thievul might see use in lower tiers or as a gimmick.
Click to expand...
It isn't nearly as strong as Gumshoos, but its higher Speed means it can potentially do well against frailer offensive teams.

... is what I would say if Thievul was actually fast. Base 90 isn't bad by any means, but it's incredibly unspectacular. Unless the lower tiers are super slow, I can see this thing relying on a Choice Scarf or Sticky Webs to get anything done.
 
oof. If only this mon got a fairy move (I was expected it to have Dazzling Gleam). Either way though, I had fun cheeseing a little bit with this mon a couple days back on an alt. I built a surprisingly solid team centered around a Sub-NP Unburden set with Psychic and Dark Pulse. Psychic seed boosts its Sp. Def and allows it to set up on Dragapults (that are more often than not the better Sp. Attacking sets rn) or other weakened special attackers - Thievul has passable Sp. Def to begin with.

Sub can help for setting up in front of stall-y Pokemon. I had fun destroying the Toxa-Ferro-GCor that were running around couple days ago.

This thing can really put in work after the Dark types are taken care of (fairy move would have been so good). Dyna can allow for self terrain set up in pinch.

Here are some replays of the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1017707697

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1017714156

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1017736128

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1018209999

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1018221345

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1018258826

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1018333022

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1019120593

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1019142052

As for the future of this mon, I think it can definitely have a place in a tier below OU where pokes like Hydreigon and Grimsnarl (this Gens premiere Dark types) are not there. Dynamax allows a little leeway (extra damage + HP buff + potential for self terrain set up) if this mon is being used as a cleaner or sweeper in a meta without Dynamax, opposing mons definitely need to be weakened more before things can happen.

I see RU-NU-ish in its future, especially after Stake Out is released. It is a decent mon. I doubt it will be untiered.
 
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Lmao so this is Gen 8's compensation for pursuit being gone?
I have no idea why people are suggesting it's going to be untiered, once stakeout is released i could absolutely see an LO set in like RU punishing wrong predicts and playing mind games
 
I came up with a pretty decent set for this thing:
Thievul @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Special Attack 252 Speed 4 Special Defense
Timid/Modest Nature
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Grass Knot

This set is meant to utilize the throat spray with snarl, which activates unburden while also increasing your special attack. The downside is that Thievul's special move pool is extremely shallow. This mon doesn't seem too great in general, but this set worked surprisingly well against certain pokemon.
 
TheBooKing said:
I came up with a pretty decent set for this thing:
Thievul @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Special Attack 252 Speed 4 Special Defense
Timid/Modest Nature
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Grass Knot

This set is meant to utilize the throat spray with snarl, which activates unburden while also increasing your special attack. The downside is that Thievul's special move pool is extremely shallow. This mon doesn't seem too great in general, but this set worked surprisingly well against certain pokemon.
Click to expand...
Thing is, you get hard walled by Dreigon who is also a much more relevant dark-type.
 
How does Foul Play interact with Stakeout? Does Foul Play use the attack stat of the Pokemon switching out or the one switching in?

A Stakeout boosted Foul Play could be the best use for this mon I feel.
 
I wish this mon was better than it is, because i really like its design and it has the tools to be a semi-viable theat but its stats let it down. Hopefully it gets a chance to shine in PU, but right now, its not worth looking at. Especially with no Stakeout.
 
Robot7620 said:
Thing is, you get hard walled by Dreigon who is also a much more relevant dark-type.
Click to expand...
Yeah without a doubt, the thing is that Thievul will more than likely end up in the lower tiers, where Hydreigon is not. I don't expect much from this mon, but I thought that was a mildly cool set.
 
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