All Gens The Best Types In History - Round 2: GSC (See post 114)

Jellicent

Jellicent

is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Alright, so I thought this could be an interesting project to kick off. Each round, we'll attempt to rank the best types in a generation. We'll assign points to each type at the end of the round and move on to the next gen. When we're finished, we'll tally up all the points and see which type has proven to be the most influential throughout history.

A few notes:
  • Points will be awarded based on rank and number of types available. So, first place in RBY will get 15 points, while first in GSC - BW will get 17 points. Second place would get 14 points in RBY and 16 in the other 4 past gens. You get the gist.
  • In the event of a tie, for instance two types being equally worthy of third best in ADV, they'd both receive 15 points. The next type on the list would just get 13, as it's still 5th place.
  • This can be pretty subjective, so back up your reasons for each type's ranking. One-liner posts like "X is the best type" or "Y sucks, easily last place" will be deleted. Similarly, don't just post a list of which order you think they should be in without offering any reasoning behind your choices. This is meant to spark discussion, so offer some explanation.
  • We're just looking at the current OU metagame for each gen. Mewtwo being banned in every gen has no bearing on Psychic's placement. Similarly, Dragon typing affected quite a few bans in DPP, but we're looking at how the currently-OU Dragons stand up to the rest of the types, not Garchomp and friends.
  • Just because there are more of one type in OU than another doesn't necessarily mean that type is better. How much the best Pokemon of each type has impacted the metagame is also worth taking into consideration.
  • When looking at important Pokemon, consider how their typing has helped or hindered their success. Think about their weaknesses and resistances, the effectiveness of their STAB attacks, and any other perks that come with their typing.

With that out of the way, we can open this up to discussion. Let the debating begin!
 
For RBY, there should be no question that Psychic was the best type. It was only weak to Bug (which had irrelevant move distribution), was immune to Ghost (which suffered a similar issue as Bug), and was unresisted. That coupled with the fact that Alakazam, Slowbro, and Starmie could use STAB Psychic to rip through threats made it pretty scary. On top of that, the TM had pretty solid distribution, so other powerhouses like Gengar could also use its offensive prowess.

For second, I'm actually going to go with Normal. Normal in RBY only had one weakness to Fighting and one type that was immune to it: Ghost. What do those things have in common? Psychic ate Fighting-types alive and the only notable Ghost was also weak to Psychic thanks to its dual-typing. Normal types tended to have really good stats to counterbalance their lack of STAB power, but that was a negligible weakness. Tauros was a monster sweeper. Chansey was a brick wall. Persian outran everything not named Alazakam and disrupted. Snorlax ate your attacks and laughed as he crushed your team literally and figuratively. As for moves, Body Slam hurt a lot AND it had a paralysis chance, and no one can forget the terror of Wrap. Checking these Pokemon was a matter of relying on Golem and Rhydon to resist their STABs, but that's about all you could do.

For third, I'm going with Water. Weak to only Grass and Electric, and strong against Ground, Rock, and Fire. Water types also got access to Ice Beam and Blizzard, which mitigated the threats posed by opposing Grass types, who's biggest counter threat was the slow Solarbeam. Starmie, Vaporeon, Lapras, and Slowbro were all big threats for a reason. Low risk, high reward.
 
Psychic and Normal define RBY OU. Of the 16 OU Pokémon in RBY, Alakazam, Exeggutor, Jynx, Slowbro and Starmie (5) are Psychic, and Chansey, Persian, Tauros and Snorlax (4) are Normal. These Pokémon tend to keep each other in check, sometimes being the only real means to.

As for the rest of OU, only Water (Cloyster, Slowbro, Lapras, Starmie) kind of stands out, but all of these guys have secondary typings. Some of these Pokémon do not even use their Water STAB. I think Ground is actually a more significant type if you are to talk about defining the RBY OU metagame, as one of Rhydon/Golem is present on every type. They completely negate any possibility of Zapdos or any non-Raichu Electric type being more than a novelty. The only Water that's used more often than these two very similar Pokémon is Starmie, and Starmie's standard set has no Water move.

I'm saying Ground and not Rock because it's what makes their Earthquake so strong and Electrics so useless. If Golem and Rhydon lost their Rock typing it would be unfortunate but they would be a lot more useful than if they lost their Ground typing. On a similar note, something like Sandslash is more viable in OU than Aerodactyl or one of the Water/Rock goofballs.

Ice is great because of the broken 90% Blizzard found on quite a few OU Pokémon and hitting a lot of the tier for at least neutral damage, plus RBY freeze is the best status effect ever.

So for me:
1. Psychic
2. Normal
3. Ground
4. Water
5. Ice
6. Electric

The rest is kind of whatever. Fire is bad mostly because Starmie alone can keep them in check and they have few switchin opportunities, Fire Blast can burn Chansey when you usually want to paralyze, sleep or freeze it, plus they give frozen Pokémon a chance to thaw. Poison is bad because it has literally nothing going for it except for double damage on Exeggutor. Bug is bad for the same reasons, pretty much. Almost every type besides the above six is secondary or irrelevant and I cba to type anymore.
 
I think it's safe to say Psychic was the best type in RBY. Due to its one weakness, it was practically unopposed and the very limited amount of bug-type moves only aided its ascension. There were only a few move that were super effective on it, Leech Life, Pin Missile, and Twineedle. Of the three, only two are powerful, Twineedle and Pin Missile. Twineedle was exclusive to Beedrill, a Bug/Poison-type that was weak to Psychic-type attacks anyway and although Pin Missile was not exclusive, it was only found on Beedrill and Jolteon, so a Pokemon that's weak to Psychic-type attacks, or a Pokemon that has a low Attack stat.
 
1 Normal - Normal and Psychic are obviously dominating forces, but in OU it's normals who truly rule, much more mandatorily. Their attacks are often staple on non-normal-types. They have it all - oh wait; ubers! That's not really being considered here though.. 3 OUs (tauros, snorlax, chansey are all OU atm, persian is not) but persian and kanga get occasional valid use too :] anyway the 3 mons that are OU are totally dominating and definining forces, 3/4 of the big 4.
2 Psychic - Only resisting itself, and being relevant in every tier, it has a lot going for it. Putting it as #1 is not unreasonable, but I feel normal has the slight edge just for the importance of OU.
3 Ice - Whilst it's less acknowledged as a good typing throughout the generations, this is Ice's best generation. Steel doesn't exist. Immune to the freezing effect from all attacks that can offer it. Fighting is awful. Ice resist is significant. Its weakness to Fire is fairly insignicifant. Its rock weakess is certainly bearable (although a little more painful for articuno maybe) - it has great matchup versus all rock type pokemon apart from sometimes the water/rock pokemon, which are almost non-existant in OU. It really does merit being 3rd in this gen. Whilst it lacks much else in meaningfull resistance, ice resistance and freeze immunity is absolutely gigantic this gen. It's an important contributing factor for all mons that are OU in this gen. And of course, as an offensive coverage move, it's invaluable. I will defend Ice #3 to the death in my icy fortress.
--
At this point it's tricky, trying to order water/grass/ghost/rock/electric/ground. Ground and then Electric are most significant in terms of value of attack, Water's very rare as an attack but defensively it contributes a lot to a mon's success. Grass is only relevant to a small pool of mons, and even smaller for ghosts, but the electric/ground resist (but ice weakness) and normal immunity play a lot in the mon's successes. Rock goes hand in hand with ground, it offers slightly more defensively but leaves an exploitable ground weakness; ground helps with electric types but leaves a major ice weakness. My ordering continutes
4 Water - it's the only type to really have everything going for it, its flaws are few but not unexploitable. Starmie, Slowbro, Lapras, Cloyster all owe some of their success to their water typing (perhaps for cloyster it's more of a hindrance though, but STAB on Clamp's no bad thing). Added Ice resistance is cool even if it means electric weakness and no freeze immunity. It's a good offensive type in occasional circumstances (see kingler, offensive starmie, clamp cloy, surfbro).
5 ground - it's significant in terms of a movepool option - earthquake is everywhere, and hits certain stuff in virtually ever tier; pairing great with normal in offensive coverage, and defensively offering an electric immunity that's relevant in a lot of tiers. Diglett's one of the best LC mons too although perhaps irrelevant. In terms of OU presence it just adds ice weakness, but lets the users have STAB on earthquake (really quite vital actually - moreso for rhydon than golem though imo). The fact it makes it a losing matchup versus a lot of common OU mons doesn't stop the presence of rhydon and golem.. it's more here for the power it adds to tauros, snorlax, rhylem's attacks really.
6 electric - just about creeping in at number 6, due to the godliness of thunder wave, the importance of it to keep slowbro in check, the fact there's a couple of mons viable or included in the official tiering of OU, and the fact it makes chansey's standard. Twave is a primary reason though.
7 grass - mixed bag, but ground and electric resistance are positive. bug, fire, and ice weak - bug only relevant for jolteon in ou with bug, and fire resistance is basically irrelevant. Ice resistance is horrid, but offensively hitting water on the SE, having a high crit move, hitting rock/grounds for death, access to powders (grass type moves).. the last typing to go with the big 4 goes here. Whilst egg is super relevant, it's nearly the only one.
8 rock - it's definitely up there, normal and to a lesser extent flying resistance are huge. But not as gigantically relevant as the stuff above it. Rhylem's strongest attack to hit exeggutor, and lapras/cloyster/jynx (threatening them when weakened and paralysed) - it pairs well with ground (not as good as in later gens or as normal does, but nevertheless).
9 ghost - normal resistance is all that's contributed to it. That is huge though. Gengar is good in OU, but not super dominant. It's one of 2 reasons why gengar is viable.
10 flying - it's a good offensive typing, but it only has one good attack, and it's poorly distributed. Most flying types have gigantic issues with the rock types in every tier. Electric's resistance to it is unfortunate too. Ground resist is good but not saving. Zapdos is the best flying type in OU; it's a fairly rare option nowadays tho, dragonite even rarer. It just offers up horrible weaknesses for little gain.
11 poison - it's a bad typing. HOWEVER it is the very bottom of our good part of the list and the draw into bad. It adds weaknesses to ground and psychic, but a lot of poison types can cope, usually due to their other type (like victreebel and gengar in OU). However, it usually drags down whatever it's on. That's why it's down so low here. Offensively it's almost utter crap but not quite. Sludge is sort of viable on a borderline(??)-unviable Weezing. I dunno ice beam might be better though. Whilst it's low, it still proffers decent OU mons; gengar, victreebel, uhm...
12 dragon - no relevant attacks, and defensively offering little hope, but it's relevant in OU. Ice weakness sucks. If it weren't for dratini's line to all have wrap access, it could face being lower down the list. This is not the gen of the dragons.
13 fire - it's not a terrible typing, the weaknesses are bearable, but the main issue is how bad burns are in OU; they're rubbish. Fire Spin's poor accuracy is disappointig also. Still, there's a few of them that are too good for NU and that's gotta count it above fighting and bug.
14 fighting - at the bottom of the barrel, but machamp's power cements it as a good player in NU. Definitely an underwhelming typing, but at least it yknow has attacks above 40 base power. I feel seismic toss also helps put it above bug with its pin missile jolteon. Raish Chansey>Jolteon.
15 bug - at the bottom; the only significance any bug types have is their access to certain powder moves. Their ground resistance would be cool but their low stats, other vulnerabilities, etc. put them below even fighting types for me. Pin Missile helps it not be totally forgotten.
 
Last edited:
Dragon's not touching second place. Psychic and Normal have a pretty solid top 2 by a large margin. Which is actually the top is debatable, however. I could see a pretty strong case going for Normal, with Tauros, Chansey, and Snorlax being total metagame definers. Toss in the fantastic STAB moves (Hyper Beam, Body Slam, Selfdestruct) that make them the monsters they are.

Mekkah, while Ground is definitely a major factor in Golem / Rhydon usage, Rock is at least noteworthy. The Normal resistance goes a pretty long way, and Rock Slide is still important coverage. It's definitely above other types like Fire and Bug. Grass, Ghost, and Flying are at least worth mentioning as being a cut above the more garbage types as well.
 
Psychic was RBY. You had to have a psychic type on your team or else you'd be screwed. Alakazam, Starmie, Executor, Slowbro, Jynx, all great in Gen 1 OU. The only counter to a psychic was another psychic! My second choice would be normal, weak to only fighting and only ghosts (aka Gengar) was immune to it. Chansey, Slorlax, and the king Tauros were dominating forces in Gen 1. As for last place its probably bug. The strongest bug move was twinneedle, and only Beedril got it.
 
Having not played RBY regularly, I can't seriously vote on this, but I know enough about it to put Psychic as the best type in RBY.

The issue with Normal is that its only benefit prior to the recent discoveries was STAB. Ghost immunity doesn't matter because the only Ghost move taking the type chart into account was Lick.

With the newfound immunity to Body Slam paralysis, the Normal type received a significant defensive buff. We haven't really been able to tell the effects of this, but considering similar effects in later generations boosting a type's usage, Normal is now the clear #2.
 
yeah we kind of have it's not taken very long to adapt (maybe for lapras tho it sucks a ton for it lol).
Also I neglected mentioning the importance of Sing and Wrap as moves. Seriously though, you can run a viable RBY team with only 1 psychic type, you can't run a viable team without at least like 2 normal types (I've seen it done with 1 tho.. I guess lol) and your typical amount is 3.

Normal #1 porco dio
 
Jellicent said:
Mekkah, while Ground is definitely a major factor in Golem / Rhydon usage, Rock is at least noteworthy. The Normal resistance goes a pretty long way, and Rock Slide is still important coverage. It's definitely above other types like Fire and Bug. Grass, Ghost, and Flying are at least worth mentioning as being a cut above the more garbage types as well.
Click to expand...

I meant it as I said it: it's very nice, but I'd rather lose the Rock part than the Ground part. Hyper Beam/Explosion resist is very nice but to make use of them you gotta take risks.

I like Grass just fine because it's Exeggutor and some lesser used but still viable 'mons like Venusaur and Victreebel. Razor Leaf is the only reliable way to deal with Slowbro. But the non-Egg Grass 'mons are all stopped by Exeggutor and Gengar so it's not that amazing.

Ghost is just Gengar. He's good, but he's only one mon. Yeah, better than a throwaway type, but he's a very high risk 'mon. Fast Hypnosis, but it can miss and he ends up getting slept or taking a million damage. Explosion, but it could be predicted and then he dies. Can switch in on Explosions, but it could also be an Earthquake and then he dies.

Flying is really secondary and never the main attraction. Drill Peck on Zapdos is nice, but it's so rarely useful unless they let you take on Exeggutor with it. Other than that all it has going for it is being on Dragonite and I guess Dodrio?
 
I'd like to hear y'all discuss Normal vs. Psychic for the #1 spot at greater length. The conventional wisdom of course is that Psychic is the best type, but I don't think it's self-evident when you actually look at the meta.
 
I'd argue with out of the big four that are about 80-90% mandatory 3 being pure normal type, and the value of body slam, hyper beam, explosion, and to a lesser extent, self-destruct, sing, recover, softboiled, and wrap, is enough to push it over psychic with 1 mon being at that mandatory range, but several being very good (jynx, starmie, slowbro, alakazam), as well as the goodness of Psychic, Reflect, and Amnesia isn't as much as Normal's. In terms of niche options, you have persian/kanga/raticate(/dodrio?) versus Hypno afaik lol. I just think normal has enough going for it there. Psychic types all get walled and stalled to various degrees, it's the normals breaking the meta and doing a bit of stalling on top of that.
 
The list is mostly arbitrary from 7th position as RBY OU was quite limited in typings, but oh well.
  1. Bird - Explanation here. It totally deserves a separate post.
  2. Normal - Chansey, Tauros, and Snorlax are in practically every team, and it's a quite good offensive type with a great offensive attacks in Hype Beam, Slash and Double-Edge (and Wrap, if you feel like using Dragonite who thinks he is Togekiss). It doesn't have any real weaknesses, although Fighting has better attacks than Psychic weakness - Bug. Tauros is also S rank.
  3. Psychic - Every team packs Psychic types like Alakazam and Exeggutor. There is just practically one relevant Psychic-type attack, Psychic, but that attack is enough for it to be very powerful. Not to say that Psychic types don't have any real weaknesses (Jolteon may use Pin Missile, but it's for things that are immune to Electric, not Psychic types). On second position, because some Psychic types don't use Psychic attacks because of Psychic types in the metagame.
  4. Ice - Blizzard has 90% accuracy and ridiculous power (also 10% chance to practically OHKO), so make sure to take a Water type to resist it. Not to say that Ice resists Ice, and Ice types are immune to freezes which are very powerful in RBY. Only one real weakness to Rock.
  5. Ground - It's a reason why Golem and Rhydon are usable. It makes them immune to Electric attacks, and their Earthquakes are ridiculously powerful. Although Flying types are immune to Ground, they are weak to Ice.
  6. Water - Although outclassed offensively by Ice, defensively it's amazing making user resist common Ice attacks.
  7. Electric - Super effective against Water, and paralysis by Thunder Wave is amazing, way better than lame Toxic and Burn. Too bad that common Ground is immune to it, although Starmie's BlizzardBolt helps alllievate this a bit.
  8. Ghost - It provides immunity to Normal for Gengar, that's about it (nobody cares about 20 BP Lick).
  9. Rock - Resists Normal, and I guess it's the only actually useful typing that is super effective against Ice.
  10. Grass - Resists Ground (which doesn't let Ground types spam Earthquake until Exeggutor is down) and Electric, has Ice weakness.
  11. Flying - Immunity to Ground, weakness to Electric, Ice and Rock. I guess it may help Dragonite. Perhaps?
  12. Fighting - Super effective against Normal. Weak against Psychic. Nobody would use that, but at least Fighting type has a niche - I said, this list is quite random at this point.
  13. Dragon - Only relevant because of Dragonite, but to be honest, Dragonite would be better of in first generation without Dragon typing, as it provides nothing really useful. Sure, four resists, but Electric type resist is weakened by Flying type, and it introduces nasty x4 Ice weakness. Offensively, it's... Dragon Rage.
  14. Fire - Fire Spin is the only thing it has going for it, and 70% is inaccurate.
  15. Bug - Super effective against Psychic, but who cares when its moves are just bad.
  16. Poison - Weak to Psychic and Ground, doesn't provide anything useful. Gengar is OU, but Poison typing only harms it.
 
Last edited:
I found the bottom part easier tbh after the top 3; grass and flying should definitely be above fighting though. [see my post for my list + fairly in depth explanation]
 
I should probably mention that utility moves like Thunder Wave, Reflect, Recover, etc. don't really affect how a type would place, as any type uses those moves just as effectively. Something like Curse could be mentioned in later gens I guess, as it works differently for Ghosts.

Psychic vs Normal is definitely the main debate for this gen. I'd lean more towards Normal myself. Tauros and Snorlax are offensive champs, and their STAB attacks are a big part of what makes them so great. Toss in the fact that they have EQ for Gengar and Blizzard (plus Surf in Lax's case) for the Rocks, and you've got a pretty awesome presence.

The Psychics generally have more moveslot issues. While Psychic is a great STAB attack, it's often dropped in favor of other moves on Starmie and Slowbro. Zam and Starmie also have to watch out for Chansey, which can eat their attacks (unless screwed by Special drops) and threaten to neuter them with Thunder Wave. They also have to be careful of Body Slams being thrown around. Slowbro's more countered by crits than anything else. Eggy is probably the scariest of the bunch.

It's not uncommon for Normals to make up half of a competitive team. It's pretty rare to not see Tauros on any team, while Chansey and Lax are also staples. Psychics don't have quite as much utility imo, though it's certainly close.

Mekkah I agree that Ground probably beats out Rock typing-wise, just mentioning that it's a step up from the bottom-dwellers. On the same page considering Grass as well; it at least has merits to push it above the lower ones. Ghost is just Gengar, but it's also one of the main reasons to ever use it. The fact that it has to watch out for EQ from the likes of Snorlax / Golem is unfortunate, but it's a high-risk / high-reward thing if it can eat a predicted boom. Flying's kind of scraping by, but still edges out some of the worst.
 
Honestly, the fact that body slam doesn't paralyze normals harms normal types as much as it benefits them. It clearly benefits Chansey and Persian/Tauros in some instances, but hurts Snorlax due to no longer being able to consistently take down an unparalyzed Chansey. It also hurts the utility of Body Slam (which is a normal attack) on random stuff like Lapras or Rhydon.

1. Normal is the best attacking type due to being physical. It technically has a flaw which is the fact that rocks and gengar resist it but everything that would consider using Body Slam will also be packing EQ or Blizzard anyway, with the only relevant exception being some snorlax sets.

2. Psychic is the best defensive/utility type. Not only because it has no relevant weaknesses, but because psychic pokemon are all pretty good. They usually have great special as well as access to recover and/or a sleep and paralysis move. Psychic is a good, neutral move that can hit physicals hard and psychic types then have some of those utility moves to deal with other special based pokemon. Also beacuse psychic resists psychic, psychic types make each other more of a necessity.

3/4 There are a few good water-type pokemon but not because the water type is particularly good. Starmie is good because it boltbeams and recovers, lapras is a versatile bulky attacker, slowbro sets up amnesias, and cloyster clamps and explodes. As an attacking type, water is pretty useless on special based mons when you can boltbeam, but the existence of good water mons does make an impact and it's the reason boltbeam is a thing to begin with and stuff like chansey/starmie/lapras use thunderbolt

So 3 is a toss up between water and ice. There are less good ice type mons compared to water, but blizzard/ice beam is a much better attacking move.

5 is for ground easily. Being immune to tbolt makes zapdos and jolteon useless against them, and the immunity to thunder wave and thunderbolt in general. EQ being the perfect complement to body slam/hyper beam on physical attackers.

6 electric. Zapdos/Jolteon are not that common but thunderbolt as a coverage move is. Plus thunder wave.

7. probably grass. exeggutor is everywhere, victreebel is pretty good, razor leaf being se against water/rock/ground is quite useful. plus sleep powder/stun spore if that counts

8. either rock or ghost for the resist/immunity on normal attacks. it doesn't help that tauros/lax will use eq/blizzard/surf but the fact that the rock and ghost types exist is what is making them use the coverage move.

9. the other one

10. flying. you have dragonite, zapdos and his drill peck. dodrio?

11. quite remarkable the fact that it ruins gengar victreebel and venusaur. sure it's a negative thing but at least it leaves a mark in rby that way

12. fire. well there is moltres...

13 and 14. now this is a matter of whether jolteon's double kick is >, = or < to its pin missile.
 
Trying to make an actual list is rough. I've tried to space them out so that similar leagues of typings are clumped together.

1) Normal, for why I've mentioned before.
2) Psychic, the only thing that can really come close to Normal's dominance.

3) Ice. It's a trickier call, but I'll roll with it. Offensively, it's fantastic, both for coverage and freeze chances. Fire and Fighting weaknesses aren't too big of a deal. Rock is a bit worse, but Ice resistance and freeze immunity more than makes up for that, especially since GolDon won't like eating Blizzards anyway.
4) Ground. The Electric immunity and STAB EQ put GolDon in the big leagues. After the Normals, they're the best physical offense around.
5) Water. Might seem a little low, considering the number of good Water-types in the tier, but it's more of an added Electric weakness for Lapras and Razor Leaf weakness for Slowbro than anything else. Despite that, it's not a bad typing by any stretch.

6) Electric. It's a solid offensive typing, although Ground's immunity hinders it. It only brings a Ground weakness to the table, which isn't even a factor for Zapdos. Despite that, GolDon's presence brings it down a notch. Still, it's the main reason GolDon has that huge of a presence.
7) Grass. It's helpful for Eggy, who's a standard for most teams. Victreebel's also notable for screwing over Slowbro thanks to its Grass STAB. The Ice weakness sucks, but at least it has Electric and Ground resists. What sucks is most are Grass / Poison, so that Ground resistance goes away and a glaring Psychic weakness creeps in instead.

8) Rock. The added resistance to Normal is a blessing. Rock Slide also allows GolDon to do some heavy damage on Zapdos. That said, it stacks up with their Water and Grass weaknesses from Ground, which sucks. It's also just not as strong offensively as EQ.
9) Flying. It at least brings Drill Peck to Zapdos. Ground immunity is something for Zap and Nite, although nothing huge. The added weaknesses to Ice and Rock are downers, as well as removing both of their Electric resistances. Dodrio?
10) Ghost. Well, it's just Gengar really. The Ground and Psychic weaknesses suck, but that's more of a reason that Poison sucks than Ghost. Still, it's kind of inseparable in this case. High risk, but that Normal immunity is its saving grace.

11) Dragon. There's not even a STAB to speak of here. The resistances are really all it's bringing to the table for Dragonite, and that's not much. We're getting down to the "at least it's something" level.

12) Fighting. With a huge Psychic weakness, Fighting really only brings a super effective hit against Normals to the table. Even then, none of the Fighting-types jump out. Machamp, Poliwrath, Hitmonlee, etc. are niche at best. It gives Jolteon a coverage move, but that's pretty much it.
13) Fire. The chance to burn something or unfreeze something sucks. Weaknesses to Water, Ground, and Rock sucks. It's not a good type. Moltres and Charizard are the posterboys for the type. It's sad that it's not the worst.
14) Bug. Nothing that's Bug-type is worthwhile. It's in the same "It gives Jolteon a coverage move" tier, and even then, it's only really used against Eggy.

15) Poison. This probably seems odd, since there are viable Poison-types, but hear me out. The Psychic and Ground weaknesses mean it's battered by most special and physical threats. The fact that there are OU-viable Poisons is not a merit to the typing at all; it just shows that they have a niche despite a massive handicap. Gengar, Victreebel, and Venusaur would be so much better if they lost that secondary typing. Nidoking would probably see actual usage without the Poison-typing. It's awful.
 
Last edited:
It bothers me a lot when people I've never heard of in a RBY setting say "Psychic is obviously the best type" when it's not.

Normal is the best typing in RBY. There's four (almost) universally agreed upon top Pokémon in RBY, and three of those are Normal. The most common coverage move in RBY is Normal-type (Body Slam), ran on specialists AND physicals. "Psychic has no weaknesses" is just as true of a statement as "Normal has no weaknesses", which means, not entirely. Jolteon uses both Double Kick and Pin Missile, and out of the five Psychic types in OU, three of them really don't like taking Pin Missile (only the best option vs. one, in fairness) whereas only one Normal type is bothered by Double Kick.

Ice is the third best type in RBY, followed by Water. After that it turns a bit messy. Maybe Ghost for fifth.
 
Crystal_ said:
13 and 14. now this is a matter of whether jolteon's double kick is >, = or < to its pin missile.
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding directly to my post :) you're forgetting seismic toss on stuff like chansey and zam which imo swings it for fighting. I dunno if either should be above fire though. In serious top level RBY, fire doesn't exist, but every other type leaves some sort of mark. In casual games I think fire has reasons to edge it. I'm not against fire below both of these lol, but several fire types are on the very very edge of unviability in OU, so there's that. Then again, machamp, hitmonlee, venomoth, parasect, etc. all have viability very similar to that of the fire types (but in terms of lower tiers, fire types outshine them)
Jellicent said:
15) Poison. This probably seems odd, since there are viable Poison-types, but hear me out. The Psychic and Ground weaknesses mean it's battered by most special and physical threats. The fact that there are OU-viable Poisons is not a merit to the typing at all; it just shows that they have a niche despite a massive handicap. Gengar, Victreebel, and Venusaur would be so much better if they lost that secondary typing. Nidoking would probably see actual usage without the Poison-typing. It's awful.
Click to expand...
I had considered that approach.. not sure which approach is better to consider. Do we consider how good the type is in terms of also what OU-viable mons there are with that typing as being a factor even if it's a huge handicap? That's where our opinions differ; if we felt that that still gave it some value, I'd consider it above fire/fighting/bug, if not then last is reasonable.
Isa said:
Ice is the third best type in RBY, followed by Water. After that it turns a bit messy. Maybe Ghost for fifth.
Click to expand...
Suprised by ghost for fifth; I mean I know you're not being overly specific here, but it's been rated much lower mostly so far. I could see an arguement for it though.
 
I'm okay with Normal > Psychic, a pretty good case has been made. It's not completely illogical to think of Psychic as the best - it does have some really good Pokémon in it after all. But I think what breaks the balance (besides the higher amount of Normals per team vs Psychics) is that Psychic is a poor offensive type because it's such a common defensive type. Plenty of Psychics pass up on Psychic itself in favor of other options: Starmie, Slowbro, if I remember correctly Jynx doesn't necessarily need it either. Exeggutor and Alakazam use Psychic but they have no better options, STAB or otherwise, and they commonly get into trouble because of it.
 
Normal and Psychic as the top 2 is pretty solidified. The next 3 are a bit more of a toss-up, though. Ice, Water, and Ground are mostly dominating the 3-5 slots, although the exact order needs some hammering out still. Interestingly, Electric has been the most consistent pick of all, at a solid #6 in every list so far, haha.

Ice seems to be the favorite for the third slot, but good cases for Water and Ground can still be made, so I'm interested hear a bit more about that debate.

As for Seismic Toss, it's a Fighting attack, but, kind of similar to moves like Thunder Wave, it doesn't matter what Pokemon uses it. A STAB Seismic Toss means nothing and it's not super effective on anything, so it's not really a factor when considering Fighting as a type, at least imo.

Also, Piexplode, my case for Poison goes more with what I outlined in the OP, mostly "Just because there are more of one type in OU than another doesn't necessarily mean that type is better" and "When looking at important Pokemon, consider how their typing has helped or hindered their success." I can understand if people would rather place Poison higher, since there are viable Poison Pokemon, but I just don't see it being in any way a beneficial typing, offensively or defensively, in the RBY metagame. It just feels weird ranking it higher than anything else, but that might just be me :P
 
Isa said:
It bothers me a lot when people I've never heard of in a RBY setting say "Psychic is obviously the best type" when it's not.

Normal is the best typing in RBY. There's four (almost) universally agreed upon top Pokémon in RBY, and three of those are Normal. The most common coverage move in RBY is Normal-type (Body Slam), ran on specialists AND physicals. "Psychic has no weaknesses" is just as true of a statement as "Normal has no weaknesses", which means, not entirely. Jolteon uses both Double Kick and Pin Missile, and out of the five Psychic types in OU, three of them really don't like taking Pin Missile (only the best option vs. one, in fairness) whereas only one Normal type is bothered by Double Kick.

Ice is the third best type in RBY, followed by Water. After that it turns a bit messy. Maybe Ghost for fifth.
Click to expand...

I agree with you up until your final sentence. There's no way Ghost and Water is taking rank over Ground. Or even electric, for argument's sake.
 
The defining type of RBY had to be Psychic, with only one weakness (Bug), which only had, like, 3 moves that did damage. They had a good STAB move of Psychic, which could take out many Pokemon, including much Bug Types as they usually have a subtype of Poison. Same thing for Gengar's line too.

Second would be Normal, with the move Body Slam and Pokemon like Snorlax. They also had one weakness, but also had an immunity to Ghost, making the type great against offensive Gengars and such. Normal also housed one of the most prominent walls in the game, being Chansey.

Third would go to Ice. Blizzard and Freeze chances, Ice types can easily OHKO many Pokemon, and if they don't, they can freeze it and slowly chip away at them.
 
Regarding gen 1.
1. Normal
Normal is better than Psychic for offense primarily because you can have perfect coverage with Normal STAB (EQ, Blizzard and/or Surf), while there is no coverage move for Psychic-types. Also, physical > special, because there are a lot of good Pokémon with 1) great special bulk; 2) good defensive typing; and 3) a recovery move, while there is no physical equivalent which fits all three criteria. The closest thing is Lapras with Rest.
Defensively, I'd say Normal and Psychic are on par. Both have almost no real weakness and each has a nice unique perk (immunity to BS paralysis / resistance to Psychic).

2. Psychic

3. Ground
I'll probably be in the minority here, but I'd argue that Ground is better than Ice. Part of the reason is again the fact that physical > special. Blizzard is great and all, but you will need a freeze to get past some Pokémon.
However, the importance of the immunity to Electric is not to be underrated. Not only do Golem and Rhydon shut down any relevent Electric in the game (and that's no small feature), but thanks to their immunity they can gain free switches on predicted Thunderbolts and Thunder Waves (one of the most common moves in the entire game). We all now that TB and TW are mainly used by special-based mons, and that special-based mons are more likely to be paralyzed later in the match. In this hardly uncommon scenario, Golem/Rhydon can switch in, outspeed, and KO with their physical moves.
Finally, I think that we should take into account that almost any OU team has a Ground type, while only a few have an Ice type.

4. Ice
Ice is with no doubt one of the 2 top best special attacking types together with Psychic, because they both have the ability to neutralize special walls (Psychic through Special drops, Ice through freezes). Also, STAB Blizzard is the most damaging special attack in the game (Base Power 120, while other special attacks are usually 90-95).
Defensively, Ice is one of the best types as well, because its three weaknesses are rare, while it is the only type to resist Ice without being weak to Electric AND the only one to be immune to the freeze status. Too bad all existing Ice-types except for Jynx are weak to Electric anyway.

5. Water
Personally I think Water is a really mediocre typing which just happens to rank this high because of two factors: 1) There are a lot of really good Water-type Pokémon; 2) There are no pure Ice-types.
I think most Water-types would change their typing to Ice with no second thought. Offensively, Water-types mostly use Blizzard over Surf/HP anyway. And defensively, Water is a good typing because it resists Ice and has no physical weakness, but it is outclassed by Ice because the latter has more uncommon weaknesses and it is immune to freeze as well. Or rather, it would be outclassed, if most Ice-types weren't weak to TB anyway.

6. Grass
Again, it seeems I must go against the crowd here, but I think Grass is more important in RBY than Electric. Grass being resistant to Ground gives you switch in opportunities and Grass being resistant to Water is the main reason most Water-types don't use their STAB. More importantly, however, Grass-types have Sleep Powder and they manage to still be useful after they have put something to sleep, while most other sleepers are only used because they are sleepers.
This is why Grass-types are most commonly not used as leads, compared other sleepers. Because if you don't put something to sleep with your non-Grass sleeper it becomes dead weight, while Sleep Powder is only one of Exeggutor/Victreebel roles.

7. Rock
Resistance to Normal- and Flying-types attacks might seem not a huge deal when Tauros and Snorlax learn Blizzard/Surf anyway. But we must not forget that Rock-types are the main reason why many otherwise good Pokémon are so uncommon. Zapdos, Dodrio, and possibly even Scyther would be far more common if Rock-types weren't in almost every team.
The fact that Ground and Rock usually take the same slots also helps.

8. Electric
Electric has the same problems of all special types, plus being walled by Goldon and being defensively mediocre. Zapdos is good, but that has more to do with 1) Flying nullifiying Electric's sole weakness at no cost; 2) Zapdos learning Drill Peck; 3) Zapdos having legendary BST. And it still manages to be one of the least common OU Pokémon.

9. Ghost
No STAB, but the sheer awesomeness of this type is the only reason other than Hypnosis that Gengar is used at all. Immunity to the best attacking type in the game and no real weakness. Unfortunately, the only Ghost in RBY happens to be part Poison, but that isn't the type's fault, it's the Pokémon's!

10. Flying
Flying has many similar issues with Electric. The main reason I'm ranking it lower is empirical evidence: Zapdos is both the best Electric-type and Flying-type in the game, but Jolteon > Dodrio.



11. Fire
I'm ranking Fire higher the rest because of Fire Spin, which is a semi-viable niche. But really from this point on, everything sucks.

14. Dragon
No STAB and their resistances are mostly irrelevant because Water-types use Blizzard, Fire and Grass are not an issue, and Dragonite is neutral to Electric (at the cost of taking double damage from the more common Ice attacks). Dragonite is good despite its Dragon-typing, not because of it.

13. Bug
Despite having no STAB, Bug-types do have a rare resistance to Ground-types, which at least give them a switch-in opportunity. It's something.

14. Poison
The typing sucks, but at least there are viable Poison-types Pokémon.

15. FightingI can't find anything redeeming about this type.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top