The Best and Worst Boss Fights in Pokemon

[Yung Dramps]

Ever since I got done with my "Which Pokemon Are Used The Most By Important NPCs?" spreadsheet, I've had Pokemon boss fights, teams and Pokemon selection on the brain due to all the insight gained via that sheet and the intensive scouring through teams assembling the sheet required. Seeing as this fleeting obsession newfound interest has yet to subside fully, I figure I'd make another thread about it more open to discussion and longevity. Discuss anything that makes you love/hate certain boss fights in the main games or spin-offs, whether it be build-up, atmosphere, story significance, the fight itself and more.

To kick things off, let me talk a bit about my most loved/hated final villain fights in the main games.

Best: Cyrus #3 (Platinum)
The perfect storm of engaging combat and story significance. On its own it would still be good for providing a perfect level of challenge via Cyrus' very well-rounded team and notable but not excessive level boost compared to what the player will likely be at this point. But what truly makes it is the atmosphere: The entire duel takes place with the dark blue void of the Distortion World serving as a backdrop. This along with Cyrus' chilling, powerful theme playing in the background signals that you are no longer fighting an average crook or a poor misguided fool, but a dangerous madman who must be stopped at all costs.

Worst: Archer (HGSS)
This is, what, the 3rd time I've ranted about this guy? As such, I'll keep it concise and to the point: two one-stagers and a Houndoom, none of which are above Level 40 is utterly inexcusable for a culminating villain fight like this. I single out his HGSS incarnation because at least in GSC he had the "excuse" that he was a generic executive in that, but now that he's his own character who I assume is supposed to be taken seriously and GF by this point had nearly a decade more experience in boss design (including creating the aforementioned final Cyrus fight literally just the previous game before this), the fact they didn't even make the most rudimentary changes i.e. evolving Koffing into Weezing is even more laughable. There's an argument to be made for staying accurate to the source material, but not when that source material was fucking garbage.

 

[R_N]

For best....

Lusamine (Nihilego)
The lead up to this is pretty cool, I was pretty invested in Lillie's arc and seeing her tell off her mom was good. I love the shocking reveal of fusing with Nihilego and the design is fantastic.
But more to the point, while it is the same team as last time, I love that teveryone gets the totem/beast aura to boost their stats. I had a pretty solid team so it wasn't too hard or anything, but it was cool to see a gimmick applied to this game. Also all her pokemon (where applicable) had their eyes trextures changed to reflect them being under the effects of Nihilego's poison.
The trippy remix of her theme is also pretty solid.

Just a really fun boss all around.

Opal
I also want to give a shoutout to Opal. While her gym was just 3 battles and Opal herself wasn't super taxing to deal with, Opal as a character is fantastic enough to carry it and the quiz gimmick is really clever! She asks 3 questions throughout and they'll provide boosts to one side or the other if you get them right. I got them wrong so it definitely made her a little harder in spots. It was just a really fun twist on the battle formula, far better than what Piers & Raihan did for their gyms, and the fact it sticks with me helps make it one of the best imo.



And worst...well, I'll go in a slightly different direction
Totem Vikavolt
So, in general, I adore all the totem fights. They all tend to have One Weird Trick to make them trivial, but I always put in a pretty solid fight otherwise.
But Vikavolt I put as one of the worst bosses because of how disappointing it is. It's entire kit runs off Attack, its allies do a poor job of support...it does get all stats +1 and an occa berry but it's just not that hard to deal with and neither are the charjabugs.
I feel like you can tell there was a point in development where Vikavolt used special moves and it was deemed too hard. There's just no way to explain having Charjabug designed the way it is AND having a Totem Vikavolt, but not actually threading the obvious needle otherwise.
Totem Togedemaru is, frankly, an improvement across the board. Higher level, better moveset, better and more annoying allies that synergizes with Togedemaru's moveset. Not too hard to take down but it can and will put up a fight.

 

[sb879]

I don't really have a particular favorite, but I'll give shoutouts to Gen 3 and 7 for having consistently good boss fights.

For least favorite, it's easily Brycen. This fight does absolutely nothing interesting and is pathetically easy. 3 mono-Ice Pokemon this late into the game that don't even utilize their hail abilities? lol. I would be amazed if there was a person on this planet that lost to him in a normal run.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Best: Colress 3 (the Plasma Frigate)
Colress really saves Neo Team Plasma from being borderline forgettable. I mean, you see them only a few times before lategame, and yeah, they do FREEZE A CITY, but at the end of the day, it’s hard to live up to the complexity of N as a character and his interactions with Ghetsis (who is made a little more...generic evil despite still being a raving mastermind, and only has 2 scenes). In addition, in BW1, Plasma was a constant force in the story, and as a result, their hijacking of the plot felt very natural, as opposed to being crammed in at the end like BW2 did.

But I digress. Onto the boss fight itself. I think it does a perfect job of being difficult without being over-the-top. You have an Eviolite Thunder Wave Volt Switch Magneton, an Agility Metang (giving him a Metagross might be pushing it, but considering you face a Hydreigon not long after, it’s not that Farfetch’d), a Calm Mind/Recover Beheeyem (underrated Psychic in the context of Unova I feel, one of the few Calm Mind learners) a Shift Gear Klinklang (with Air Balloon) and a decent Magnezone. It’s just a really fun fight, and with the great song playing in the background (which only plays for the third fight/postgame rematches, making it feel more climatic), which is unlike almost any other Pokémon song to that point (until the Ultra Beasts came around) it captures the feeling that most Totems did of presenting a challenge without asking too much of the player.

Worst: Lance (HGSS)

I’m probably gonna get some flack for this, but I felt like saying this would be the more interesting opinion over BW1 Skyla/8th gym (whose problems are immediately obvious after a glance at the mons and movesets). Lance requires a bit more background.

HGSS is a remake that tries to make everything as inconvenient to the player as possible. The evolution stones being locked by Pokeathlon, the regular trainer rematches requiring a guide to rematch them with any foresight or frequency (did you know that you can call them at certain times ask for rematches? Because the game doesn’t tell you that!), the wild mons being consistently underleveled, a good 70% of the dex generally sucking or requiring TMs from the Game Corner to be good (remember, you can’t buy coins).

Take all of the above and also add in the atrocious level curve and you WILL be underleveled and unequipped for Lance unless you really go out of your way not to be (remember, the final rival fight a half hour ago only topped level 40 while Lance hits 50 in only a few E4 fights) and now you have to fight a character who doesn’t feel as good as the battle theme suggests.

Onto the team itself. Three Dragonites. Which the average player won’t have a good counter for (lol underleveled Ice Path mons which again require terrible grinding and often an Ice Beam TM from the game corner to actually do their job). Yes, you can say Lapras, but I think the average player probably won’t know it exists (Friday, out of the way section in Union Cave, who is going back there without knowing beforehand?) so I feel it’s a moot point. Gyrados would be cool if you didn’t fight Clair a few hours ago, and Charizard and Aerodactyl are interesting but are mons the player doesn’t have access to yet (not to mention Charizard has a mostly physical moveset including Fire Fang over Flamethrower) so they feel kinda weird. Though granted Steven also did that with Metagross so there is a precedent.

Even HGSS’s better mons aren’t adept at handling him. Quagsire gets boned via resisted STAB, Ampharos is okay but is gonna get worn down countering so many threats, Golem has to deal with Stone Miss and some special moves, Heracross sees both STABs mostly resisted bar Aerodactyl (who it shouldn’t fight anyway), and even Magneton can get blown back by the level 50 Dragonite’s Fire Blast.

When I beat Lance, I don’t feel a sense of pride, I feel a defeated sigh of relief and say “thank goodness the badly designed excuse of final boss fight is over, now to do Kanto which will be over in a few hours.”

And yes, I know GSC let you Ice Punch him to death. It doesn’t excuse the other terrible design decisions, most of which were made even worse in the remake like the Game Corner or mostly stayed pretty awful like the level curve (why did they barely change this?)

 

[Jerry the great]

Alright then... I might as well state my top 3 best and worst boss battles. I mean two, because I can only think of two per category.

#2 best: Ghetsis (black and white)
I swear... I've mentioned before about how perfect Ghetsis is at his role of being a villain. He is one of the best characters in the entire series.
The fact his team fits with his overall evilness and stuff is one of the many things I love about Ghetsis. His Cofagrigus represents death, his Bouffalant looks fearsome, his Bisharp looks intimidating, Seismitoad I guess would represent something that just got messed up, his Elektross is also intimidating at the time, and Hydregion represents the Hydra. You see, his whole team represents scariness (Bisharp, Elektross, Bouffalant), pain (Cofagrigus, Seismitoad) or evil itself (Hydregion). When it comes to talk of villans, Ghetsis has the most evil team of them all. His theme also represents his evilness. You have the drums playing in intimidating manners, a part where it screams Ghetsis or Dennis or something in an evil manner, and yeah. Not to mention he provides the kind of challenge all final bosses should provide: He's challenging, but not because of cheap tactics or stupid overleveling, but because of sheer raw power. He's also a great change from the rest of the final bosses from Pokemon, as instead of fighting a champion, the game actually decides to be original with a final boss for once. He's not so challenging it's almost impossible to beat the game, but not so little challenging you could easily beat him with little to no effort or on your first try. Overall, this battle screams awesome.

#1 best: Red (HGSS)
This battle is amazing. It takes advantage of Hail in a clever way by giving his Snorlax and Blastoise a strong coverage option in Blizzard and allows for Lapras to have a strong stab, his team represents events in Pokemon yellow (Pikachu as a forced starter, the three fully evolved Kanto starters are given to you in their first form, Snorlax was a roadblock, and Lapras was given to you by a silph co employee), he uses one of the most epic battle themes in Pokémon history, he is very challenging, and the best part? You're basically fighting YOURSELF FROM A PREVIOUS GAME. Seriously. Words cannot describe how awesome this battle is. The reasoning I chose this one of all Red battles is because it is more challenging than the others and uses the environment to it's advantage. I'm sure many fans would agree with this being the best Pokemon battle in the entire series. Now yes I did mention that I don't like when bosses are stupid over leveled, but that's different with Red because with his Pokemon, with the exception of Snorlax, if he wasn't stupid over leveled, your stats and type advantages could easily overpower him to where he isn't even a challenge. So that's different for this battle.

#2 Worst: Cynthia (Platinum)
I swear, this is just... Ngh. It's too challenging, even for final boss standards. Remember how I mentioned in my point for Ghetsis how he wasn't so challenging the game is almost impossible to beat? Yeah well take off the n't on wasn't for this battle. To make things even worse, you want to know one of the ways it's so hard? Because of Togekiss and that STUPID AIR SLASH!! Seriously! That's just sheer annoying tactics, not challenge! Not t mention when she uses full restores on her Milotic! Seriously. The words "Cynthia used a full restore!" has given me nightmares, actual nightmares, just because of that Milotic. But you want to know something? THAT'S NOT EVEN THE WORST OF IT!! That stupid Garchomp is! Seriously! It feels like my Pokemon take so much damage and do so little in return! You might be thinking "but Jerry, you could just spam revives or something, eyyyyy?" Well you lose so much from fighting the elite four that you'd have very little to rely on to manage fighting this monster! Remember my point on stupid over leveling? That applies here! You see, Cynthia is like, 10 levels higher than your Pokemon! The only way you'll ever get to her levels is by fighting the elite four over and over again, in which that means you'll lose a bunch of cash from losing a battle and you'll have killed of a lot of your item supply grinding! Granted you could save your items, but that means you'll just make your grinding even slower! Overall, I freaking this battle. Seriously. I almost wanted to break into the Game Freak headquarters and force them into making final boss battles however I want them to be, just because of this stupid nightmarish battle that came from hell itself. The music doesn't help either, as parts of the song only gives me more dramaticness.

#1: Peterel (HGSS)
Ah yes. You're breaking into this radio tower and fighting team neo rocket at it's near fullest power to save all of not just Jotho, but Kanto as well. Awesome. You know what's not awesome? This lame, easy, and lazy battle. All it is is five koffings and a weezing! Let me tell you, I certainly recall Peterel having more than just one evolution line in the last battle. It's just so stupidly easy, and lazy! Seriously! Was Game Freak on stupidity medicine and sleepy when they made this battle? I swear! This is so stupid, that I could make a better boss battle than it! It's lazy, stupid easy, and the last battle with him was much better! Like ugh! At least with the other executives they had more variety and stuff! I'd love to go on and on about this lazy, stupid, easy, cruddy battle, but ehh I don't feel like doing much more complaining. At least with Cynthia she doesn't use one evolution line!

 

[fwqef]

I don’t have the motivation to write about everything but let me chime in on Cynthia. It’s very interesting how some people said that Cynthia was one of their least favorite bosses due to how challenging the fight is. For me, Cynthia is one of my favorite bosses specifically because of that. I am a competitive player by heart and I like being faced with challenges. I admire strong trainers and pokemon in the series. You don’t necessarily need to grind hard to beat Cynthia. I believe the challenge is in beating her with a well-laid out plan and well-rounded team even if your mons are 15 levels behind. I understand that we enjoy playing pokemon for different reasons but it was pretty interesting to see the different perspective here.

 

[R_N]

I don’t have the motivation to write about everything but let me chime in on Cynthia. It’s very interesting how some people said that Cynthia was one of their least favorite bosses due to how challenging the fight is. For me, Cynthia is one of my favorite bosses specifically because of that. I am a competitive player by heart and I like being faced with challenges. I admire strong trainers and pokemon in the series. You don’t necessarily need to grind hard to beat Cynthia. I believe the challenge is in beating her with a well-laid out plan and well-rounded team even if your mons are 15 levels behind. I understand that we enjoy playing pokemon for different reasons but it was pretty interesting to see the different perspective here.

Yeah it is a little surprising though I am more accepting of the DP level issues. The entire Elite 4 was actually really high level and they only got higher. Aaron starts with a level 53 pokemon and Cynthia ends on a level 66 garchomp. Stark contrast to Volkner, who tapped out at 49 and Victory Road who hover around the 46-49 range. Steven ended on a level 58 Metagross for comparison. You're still going to be outleveled, but the gap is more managable.
I think it's telling that Platinum, which generally slightly increased the trainers you encountered or slightly buffed the leaders by a level or two, nerfed them across the board, every Pokemon losing between 4 & 6 levels. You're still ending on a level 62 Garchomp but it's much more managable a level curve.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Yeah it is a little surprising though I am more accepting of the DP level issues. The entire Elite 4 was actually really high level and they only got higher. Aaron starts with a level 53 pokemon and Cynthia ends on a level 66 garchomp. Stark contrast to Volkner, who tapped out at 49 and Victory Road who hover around the 46-49 range. Steven ended on a level 58 Metagross for comparison. You're still going to be outleveled, but the gap is more managable.
I think it's telling that Platinum, which generally slightly increased the trainers you encountered or slightly buffed the leaders by a level or two, nerfed them across the board, every Pokemon losing between 4 & 6 levels. You're still ending on a level 62 Garchomp but it's much more managable a level curve.

Y'know, funnily enough, there is another thing that makes the DP elite four much less OP than they seem, but before we get to that...

Best: Leon (SWSH)
While I prefer Iris overall, Leon has what is probably my favorite Champion battle in the whole series. There is a bit of a level jump similar to Cynthia, but in my experience it was far more manageable due to stuff like the EXP Share and just the general increase in options for the player while still providing a very nice challenge. Also like Cynthia, his team is a conga line of some of the Galar Pokedex's most fearsome Pokemon such as Aegislash, Haxorus, Rhyperior, Dragapult and more along with his signature Gigantamax Charizard, a hulking, blazing beast befitting of a powerful trainer like him that has been seen and hyped up for the entire game before this. Finally there's the awesome location of your battle: Slugging at the final challenge of the region in a massive stadium filled with people cheering you and your foe on is something so hype-inducing and yet seemingly so obvious that I am stunned it has never been attempted before for a champion fight.

Worst: The Entirety of the Pokemon League (DP)
This might be a bit absurd sounding to those not in the loop, but if you've played or even seen a walkthrough of Diamond and Pearl's incarnation of the Sinnoh Elite Four, you'll understand. In short, this laughable boss gauntlet, in addition to the ridiculous level jump R_N mentioned earlier, is the culmination of two of OG DP's biggest flaws:

• Pokemon Selection: I will never be able to fully comprehend the utterly bone-headed decision to omit so many of Gen 4's awesome new evolutions from the regional Pokedex, and while it isn't so bad at the first half, by half 2 the game design is just about ready to burst with the Pokemon League being one of the absolute worst victims. Every single one of them has to resort to using Pokemon (sometimes multiple) that are either bad, dont match their types, or sometimes even both. Aaron is stuck with Beautifly and Dustox, Bertha has to use Sudowoodo in addition to Quagsire giving her 2 Water/Ground types, 3/5's of Flint's team isn't even Fire type (with one of the non-Fires being Lopunny) and while Lucian just barely manages to have a mono-Psychic team he has to use freaking Girafarig to get that to happen. Not even Cynthia emerges fully unscathed: She ends up having to use Gastrodon, which is largely redundant with Milotic on her team and sticks out like a sore thumb among all her other elegant/cool-looking Pokemon. Now some argue that having more mons than just exploitable monotype squads is cool, and while in theory that's nice, intent is also important. Raihan from SWSH could've had a mono-Dragon team if they wanted to give him one, but they intentionally made him use a unique strategy with more type variety. DP's Elite Four have to use Pokemon that don't match their types because there are legit no better options. Now with all this considered - Multiple types and the huge level jump - this Elite Four sounds straight-up unfair. But there's a problem...
• Absolutely Terrible AI: I've seen and heard the stories. Alakazam using Energy Ball on Roserade, Medicham using Fire/Thunder Punch on Garchomp despite having Ice Punch, the list goes on. It's essentially fully regressed to the Gen 1 formula of being a slot machine, and with that goes down the vast majority of the E4's potential challenge. The Platinum version, despite being lower leveled, ends up being much harder in the end because of the actually good AI and Pokemon selection.

 

[Hematite]

One thing that I think might be worth pointing out about Cynthia - specifically her Garchomp - is that its moveset is intentionally designed to leave openings for the player.
She has Earthquake, of course, which is terrifying... But then she has Dragon Rush, which trades 20 power over Dragon Claw for a 25% chance to miss? And Giga Impact, which isn't at all stronger than STAB Earthquake but comes with a 10% chance to miss and a recharge turn? Platinum even nerfs her to have an even less optimal moveset - beyond cutting her level, I mean, it also switches her main coverage move from the physical Brick Break to the special Flamethrower - which is a little more than 27% higher in base power, but her Attack stat is about 51% higher than her Special Attack, so it's a definite net loss. A Garchomp at her level with an optimized moveset would be an awful thing to fight, but that's clearly not what this is - this is a boss that's designed to look scarier than it is, not to beat players indiscriminately without giving them a fair chance!
These flaws are RNG-based, of course, but it's not the kind of RNG that makes the whole battle come down to a dice-roll - it's the kind that makes players think on their feet and adapt their plan as they go. You can't plan on when the next opening will be, so you always have to be prepared to make the best use of it when it comes. I'm not sure if I would ever agree with making a boss fight that totally comes down to hax, but I don't feel like Cynthia oversteps in that respect; it feels like a healthy level of unpredictability (especially given that you can save before and try again - it's like the opposite of the infamous "battle facility bias:" she has to win every single time, but you only have to win once... so this kind of enemy design is at least less stupid in the context of a single-player campaign than in a serious competitive environment).
A boss that involves luck like this does sometimes take a few extra tries for the wrong reasons, so I understand it being frustrating... but to be honest, I've almost never felt like victory was so out of reach that I just didn't want to give it another shot at all (and when I did feel that way, it was usually because I messed up pretty badly on the Elite Four, not because of any inherent problems with Cynthia herself). On the contrary, I kind of love how close it always seems to be, both when I lose and when I win!
She's not my absolute favorite boss in the series or anything, but I think you guys might be overstating her overpoweredness a little.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

It's essentially fully regressed to the Gen 1 formula of being a slot machine

It's actually worse. Strong trainers in Gen 1, such as the Elite 4, would heavily prioritize super effective moves, and even read your switches like a book (by which I mean they cheat and choose their move after you switch). If not for the oversight with status moves that causes them to be spammed against Pokemon that are "weak" to it (like spamming the Psychic-type Agility against the Poison-type Venomoth) this would be an incredibly powerful AI system.

 

[Blazer50030]

Here are mine.
Good
N(BW)
I felt like this battle was one of the most important battles in the whole series. The build up is amazing with N learning though you that not all humans are bad. And he might have one of the best teams of all time. With a Zekrom/Reshiram, both fossils, Klinkang, Vanilluxe, and Zorark this team is really good. And the AI so decent to.

Bad
Bryen(BW)
YOU SUCK. I mean come on. Brock was better than you. You have a mono ice team that isn't using hail, NO secondary typing on any Mon, and a really dumb AI. I sweep his team with a newly caught Gurder. That is a sign bro. You shouldn't have stayed for BW2. Lenora should have.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Want to give a special shoutout to a postgame fight in PMD Red/Blue Rescue Team (original) which I'll put in spoilers for those wanting to go into Rescue Team DX blind as a "worst fight".

PMD Rescue Team Spoilers

Mewtwo in Western Cave

Essentially the fight happens at the end of a long 99F Dungeon with a lot of strong enemies and... it's a complete pushover who can't even deal much damage to you. Very unbefitting of the the world's strongest Pokémon. Also says a lot about Charizard and Blastoise who wipe to it prior to you being able to enter the cave.

And the worst part is that you cannot recruit it on the first visit so you have to deal with this pushover twice. At least it's guaranteed on the second attempt provided you have the space.

 

[R_N]

Honestly....all the ice leaders qualify for Worst Leader. All of them are fairly late in the game (earliest is Melony at 6, latest is Wulfric at 8) and the deck is too stacked against them; Candice is probably the hardest just because she has a Medicham in DP and hail abusers in Pt.

Here are mine.
Good
N(BW)
I felt like this battle was one of the most important battles in the whole series. The build up is amazing with N learning though you that not all humans are bad. And he might have one of the best teams of all time. With a Zekrom/Reshiram, both fossils, Klinkang, Vanilluxe, and Zorark this team is really good. And the AI so decent to.

Bad
Bryen(BW)
YOU SUCK. I mean come on. Brock was better than you. You have a mono ice team that isn't using hail, NO secondary typing on any Mon, and a really dumb AI. I sweep his team with a newly caught Gurder. That is a sign bro. You shouldn't have stayed for BW2. Lenora should have.

For what it's worth, Brycen wasn't kept for BW2. The striaton Triplets, Lenora and Brycen stopped being leaders so Cheren & Roxie take over as the first & 2nd leaders, drayden gets bumped to 7th and Marlon takes over for 8.



Actually that reminds me...
Beworst: The Triplets
so...
In theory, I like these goobers a lot as a boss battle. The monkeys aren't great pokemon, but they're perfect as an early game roadblock. And the triplets having advantage over your starter is pretty clever. Lillipup is a little silly but I get they wanted only one of them to be a road block, not both Pokemon. Work Up is a dangerous move for the early game.

But in practice they're terrible because the entire early game of BW1 is designed around this being a roadblock and getting the free monkey so you understand the type triangle. The only pokemon you can find before gym one are 2 normal types, ad ark type and a psychic type. I don't mind when a gym leader just so happens to have a bunch of pokemon in the immediate area to counter them but it really bugs me here because they kind of force you to do it (and it makes the gym consist entirely of patrats & lillipups...)

 

[Jerry the great]

Hmph. I did not expect what happened to happen over my #2 worst.

Look, it's my own viewpoint, aight? I've done the battle and even beat it after, not even exaggerating, grinding off the elite four 20 times because only then was I finally matched with her levels. Sure, maybe she isn't as over leveled as in diamond and pearl, but as Dramps said, the Diamond and Pearl elite four has poorer AI which means you'll have much more items to use vs Cynthia, and that version also lacks the togekiss. Also like I said, I don't like battles that rely on cheap mechanics like flinch hax and stuff. Look, it could be your favorite boss battle of all time. That's aight. Just because I hate or like something doesn't mean you have to as well. We're all entitled to our own opinion. If we weren't, would this thread even exist? I mean, you could say Red from HGSS is a trash battle, and even though I am a HUGE fan of that battle, I'm not going to assault you over it. Please understand. I don't like battles that rely on RNG, I don't like crazy high level curves (unless I see good reason for it like Red) and I certainly don't like a mix of both. I have done it and found it too hard for my liking. As you see from Red and Ghetsis, I love challenge. I just hate when that challenge is level curves without anything to balance it (like poor moveslots or pokemon you could easily take care of otherwise) and when a lot of that challenge comes from luck.

 

[fwqef]

This is not too related but I wish the elite 4 weren’t locked into monotype. There are plenty of ways to add personality into a pokemon team than having 4~5 same type pokemon. For example, there are cute pokemon, cool pokemon (Cynthia fits this well), elegant pokemon, scary pokemon, fast pokemon, bulky pokemon, etc. Also, they could be masters in a certain tactic like sticky web or rain.

I just wish I would be fighting actual trainers who are contenders for the champion instead of glorified gym leaders.

 

[UninspiredLunch]

This is not too related but I wish the elite 4 weren’t locked into monotype. There are plenty of ways to add personality into a pokemon team than having 4~5 same type pokemon. For example, there are cute pokemon, cool pokemon (Cynthia fits this well), elegant pokemon, scary pokemon, fast pokemon, bulky pokemon, etc. Also, they could be masters in a certain tactic like sticky web or rain.

I just wish I would be fighting actual trainers who are contenders for the champion instead of glorified gym leaders.

Considering SWSH congratulates you for knowing your type match-ups in the freaking Champion battle, I'm afraid it's unlikely. I do wonder how Raihan got away with his cool theme team. Reminds me of those awesome weather teams N had in the B2W2 postgame.

 

[Worldie]

Considering SWSH congratulates you for knowing your type match-ups in the freaking Champion battle, I'm afraid it's unlikely. I do wonder how Raihan got away with his cool theme team. Reminds me of those awesome weather teams N had in the B2W2 postgame.

Rahian was probably a experiment from GameFreaks for an "alternative" Gym leader.
Even though he's pretending to be a dragon type specialist, he is in fact a weather specialist and his Gym team revolves around sandstorm in doubles.

Considering he's one of the most appreciated battles in this gen (such a shame he is only singles in the League even though features multiple weathers and typing), I would hope GF moving forward will make more of those alternative Gym leaders or boss fights in general.

 

[Random Passerby]

I can't think of a single instance but I'll just list out 5 of each category in no particular order.

Best

Tate & Liza (E)
- I think this is the only gym which features Double Battles and they will spam moves like Earthquake which doesn't hit their Levitate mons. Confuse Ray and Hypnosis means you need to think what to hit carefully.

Cyrus (Plat)
- The build-up to the climax and his incredibly well-rounded team makes for a memorable fight.

Cynthia (DPP)
- I was cruising through the game until she hit my Empoleon with a Lv66 Garchomp Earthquake. That drew my attention to the challenge instead of me coasting through the main game as usual.

N (BW)
- The buildup to the scene where N and you battle using your legendary Dragons is good. Zoroark and the Fossils are not bad either.

Totem Wishiwashi (SM)
- Imagine going for a normal sidequest and gets attacked by a Water monster. That's what it felt like.

Worst

The Straitan trio (BW)
- You are forced to go through this sidequest glorified tutorial to get an elemental monkey to beat the boss. Not fun.

Bruno (RBY)
- You are supposed to be one of the best trainers in the region and you used 2 Onix? Hitmonchan has elemental punches despite bad Special and Machamp's only attacking move is Submission.

Koga (GSC)
- Come on, Game Freak. This guy is an Elite Four member yet you would actually have to try hard to lose to this guy.

Flint (DP)
- An Elite Four Fire-type member who uses two Fire-types and a Lopunny. There is no way they didn't see the issue with the Sinnoh Dex when designing this fight yet they refused to go back and fix it.

Sabrina (RBY)
- Her team is at least 10 levels above yours when you fight her. Psychic is also an overpowered type in this generation so yeah, not fun.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I've done my favorite and least favorite villain fights, elite 4/champion fights... Now on to rivals.

Best: Wally #2 (ORAS)
This battle is the definitive showcase of two of ORAS' biggest traits over the originals and other remakes, those being damn good character revamps and gasp actually utilizing the cross-gen evos properly. For the first thing, while Wally's arc is still paced pretty badly within the main story, this final encounter is infinitely more dramatic than the original RSE's take, what with the original music and the beautiful battlefield of light and roses; in fact, in terms of atmosphere, I think the only thing that beats it is the final Cyrus fight from Platinum! As for the latter thing, Mega Gallade on its own makes this battle and Wally as a character just that much more awesome and memorable, seriously, when was the last time you thought of this kid as a Gardevoir user? My only suggestion for improvement is that I wish they had gone all the way and also gave him Magnezone and Roserade for this duel, but other than that this is damn good shit, even if it's not the most challenging.

Worst: Tierno #3 (XY)
I pondered over whether to include one of the last encounters with the XY rivals at route 19 or the final Brendan/May fight from OG RSE, but ultimately the XY gang edged out because at least Brendan and May got more proper send-off fights in ORAS. XY didn't even get an enhanced edition or sequel, meanwhile, so no improvement in the near future for their rivals! The next step was then to figure out which one of the 3 was the shittest, and after looking over their teams I realized Tierno's Roserade (1 of only 3 Pokemon on his team, effectively being 33% of the fight) has one move in Petal Dance. It's sad because his team is this close to being kinda decent (Crawdaunt, Roserade and Talonflame, a nice FWG core of strong bois), but the other unfortunate parts of XY's design clips his wings even worse than Trevor and Shauna.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Worst: Tierno #3 (XY)
I pondered over whether to include one of the last encounters with the XY rivals at route 19 or the final Brendan/May fight from OG RSE, but ultimately the XY gang edged out because at least Brendan and May got more proper send-off fights in ORAS. XY didn't even get an enhanced edition or sequel, meanwhile, so no improvement in the near future for their rivals! The next step was then to figure out which one of the 3 was the shittest, and after looking over their teams I realized Tierno's Roserade (1 of only 3 Pokemon on his team, effectively being 33% of the fight) has one move in Petal Dance. It's sad because his team is this close to being kinda decent (Crawdaunt, Roserade and Talonflame, a nice FWG core of strong bois), but the other unfortunate parts of XY's design clips his wings even worse than Trevor and Shauna.

I just realized that Tierno should have returned in Alola. Boy would've loved Oricorio.

 

[Champion Leon]

Ever since I got done with my "Which Pokemon Are Used The Most By Important NPCs?" spreadsheet, I've had Pokemon boss fights, teams and Pokemon selection on the brain due to all the insight gained via that sheet and the intensive scouring through teams assembling the sheet required. Seeing as this fleeting obsession newfound interest has yet to subside fully, I figure I'd make another thread about it more open to discussion and longevity. Discuss anything that makes you love/hate certain boss fights in the main games or spin-offs, whether it be build-up, atmosphere, story significance, the fight itself and more.

To kick things off, let me talk a bit about my most loved/hated final villain fights in the main games.

Best: Cyrus #3 (Platinum)
The perfect storm of engaging combat and story significance. On its own it would still be good for providing a perfect level of challenge via Cyrus' very well-rounded team and notable but not excessive level boost compared to what the player will likely be at this point. But what truly makes it is the atmosphere: The entire duel takes place with the dark blue void of the Distortion World serving as a backdrop. This along with Cyrus' chilling, powerful theme playing in the background signals that you are no longer fighting an average crook or a poor misguided fool, but a dangerous madman who must be stopped at all costs.

Worst: Archer (HGSS)
This is, what, the 3rd time I've ranted about this guy? As such, I'll keep it concise and to the point: two one-stagers and a Houndoom, none of which are above Level 40 is utterly inexcusable for a culminating villain fight like this. I single out his HGSS incarnation because at least in GSC he had the "excuse" that he was a generic executive in that, but now that he's his own character who I assume is supposed to be taken seriously and GF by this point had nearly a decade more experience in boss design (including creating the aforementioned final Cyrus fight literally just the previous game before this), the fact they didn't even make the most rudimentary changes i.e. evolving Koffing into Weezing is even more laughable. There's an argument to be made for staying accurate to the source material, but not when that source material was fucking garbage.

Joey - Top % Rattata - puts up the worst fight bar Bug Catchers, but provides the best lines *and dedication*.

Thus he qualifies for both categories.

#OG-RBY

I've done my favorite and least favorite villain fights, elite 4/champion fights... Now on to rivals.

Best: Wally #2 (ORAS)
This battle is the definitive showcase of two of ORAS' biggest traits over the originals and other remakes, those being damn good character revamps and gasp actually utilizing the cross-gen evos properly. For the first thing, while Wally's arc is still paced pretty badly within the main story, this final encounter is infinitely more dramatic than the original RSE's take, what with the original music and the beautiful battlefield of light and roses; in fact, in terms of atmosphere, I think the only thing that beats it is the final Cyrus fight from Platinum! As for the latter thing, Mega Gallade on its own makes this battle and Wally as a character just that much more awesome and memorable, seriously, when was the last time you thought of this kid as a Gardevoir user? My only suggestion for improvement is that I wish they had gone all the way and also gave him Magnezone and Roserade for this duel, but other than that this is damn good shit, even if it's not the most challenging.

Worst: Tierno #3 (XY)
I pondered over whether to include one of the last encounters with the XY rivals at route 19 or the final Brendan/May fight from OG RSE, but ultimately the XY gang edged out because at least Brendan and May got more proper send-off fights in ORAS. XY didn't even get an enhanced edition or sequel, meanwhile, so no improvement in the near future for their rivals! The next step was then to figure out which one of the 3 was the shittest, and after looking over their teams I realized Tierno's Roserade (1 of only 3 Pokemon on his team, effectively being 33% of the fight) has one move in Petal Dance. It's sad because his team is this close to being kinda decent (Crawdaunt, Roserade and Talonflame, a nice FWG core of strong bois), but the other unfortunate parts of XY's design clips his wings even worse than Trevor and Shauna.

I agree for Tierno.

In that pic, he looks like a Summo Wrestler who just got poked.

How tragic.

 

[Pikachu315111]

BEST: N

BW Pre-Champion Battles: Even before his Champion Battle, N was making himself a major nuisance to the player. Okay, sure, his first/Accumula Town battle is just a Purrloin with Normal-type moves, but later on he adds more Type variety and his team is different every time making him much more challenging then your average route trainer and normal rivals. Most notable of these battles would probably be third/Nimbasa City battle where he uses a Sandile (with Moxie and Mud-Slap), Scraggy (with Hustle), Darumaka (with Hustle), and Sigilyph (nuff said).
BW Champion Battle: First Champion to use a Legendary. His team is also alright for the most part (though most have a weakness to Fighting-types). But even then it through in some fun twists like showing off Zoroark's Illusion Ability (though not sure if Klinklang was the best choice, probably should have tried a Pokemon weak to Psychic, Dark, or Ghost-type moves). But the star here was his Legendary even if it was essentially a setup battle to have you and him bash your Legendaries against each other.
BW2's Seasonal Battles: And if you didn't think N's battles weren't tough enough in BW, BW2 brings N back for monthly battles each based on a weather team! He starts out with a Pokemon with a weather summoning Ability, uses Pokemon that'll get the advantage in the weather either through Type boost or Ability, and has two emergency weather summoners holding their respective weather stones. And while his team does have weaknesses, he does make sure to cover them in one shape or form.

WORST: Korrina

Gym Match: Girl, I can wall you with a newly caught Honedge.
Tower of Mastery: Your Lucario will always be faster than her's, you'd have to purposely lose.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Okay, sure, his first/Accumula Town battle is just a Purrloin with Normal-type moves, but later on he adds more Type variety and his team is different every time making him much more challenging then your average route trainer and normal rivals.

This concept is such a cool and unique one. N doesn't really have permanent party members. All of his fight, bar the last one, use Pokemon found in a nearby location (Route 2 for Accumula, Pinwheel Forest for Nacrene, Desert Resort for Nimbasa, and Chargestone Cave for, well, Chargestone Cave). And while the final fight does buck this trend somewhat, most of his Pokemon have traceable origins. Zekrom or Reshiram was befriended at Dragonspiral Tower, Klinklang was probably caught at Team Plasma's P2 Lab, which is also probably where Carracosta and Archeops were revived. And Zoroark is implied to be N's best friend or something.

The Vanilluxe is harder to pin down, though. It's possible that N picked it up as a Vanillite or Vanillish during his trip to Dragonspiral Tower, but that doesn't work if you aren't playing in the winter, so the only other possibility is that N stopped by the Cold Storage for some reason.

 

[Cataclyptic]

Seems like an interesting concept, so I’ll throw in my two cents. But first, I want to say that I agree with everyone who said the DP elite four and champion are garbage- they are way too overleveled for the game, especially with how slow grinding is, and the AI does in fact suck. The fights are pretty bad in general.

WORST BOSS FIGHTS:

To no one’s surprise, the guy who kept screaming “PLEASE NOTICE ME GIOVANNI-SEMPAI” made it onto the list. His 3 mon team is bland and easily exploitable. One would think that adding Houndoom, one of the best pokemon ever made, to his team would improve it but no. Why use that base 110 special attack when you can use Fire Fang? I can’t say I agree with his new meta strats.

(Every Kalos gym leader)

One time, I attempted a nuzlocke in Pokemon Y. It was too easy, so I turned the EXP share off. Within minutes, it was still too easy, so I banned mega evolution. Within minutes, it was still too easy, so I only brought in an amount of pokemon equal to the amount each gym leader had.

I quit the nuzlocke because I literally steamrolled through all of these idiots without even trying. Who on earth thought that giving gym leaders a maximum of THREE pokemon would be a challenge in a 6v6 format? And who decided to give most of them less than four moves!?

BEST BOSS FIGHTS

(Platinum)

I love the fact that Cynthia is a legitimate challenge in this game. The AI got improved, so when you win you feel like you’ve actually won. Her team is well balanced and contains the infamous Garchomp. THIS is what the top trainer of a region is supposed to feel like. I can actually believe she is the champion, and boy does it feel good every time you beat her. And yes, the music in her boss fight is objectively the best.

I love this battle for the aesthetic alone. So in order to save Lusamine, you and Lillie need to travel to a freaking alternate reality where the rotom dex FINALLY shuts up (bonus points), and there you find weirdass jellyfish things in the air, and even Guzma admits all is lost at this point. And then Lusamine decides to use the fusion dance on the Nihilego, turning her into an eldrich abomination, giving her pokemon totem boosts! HELL YES!

Bonus good boss fight: VS Rayquaza and Dialga in thier respective mystery dungeon games. Not sure if we’re counting side games, so I’ll stop there.

 

[Magnus0]

I'd like to mention Drayden as one of the worst gym leaders in the franchise. Who's idea was it to combine dragon dance with dragon tail? This galaxy brain tactic was used for B2W2 as well. It's such a shame, because Drayden looks so cool and he has a Haxorus, so you would think that he'd be very challenging.