Resource SV PU Viability Rankings

[Aurist]

art by UberSkitty
Welcome to the SV PU Viability Rankings!​

Here we will rank every viable Pokémon in PU as a community. This is intended to be an aid to teambuilding and a reflection of the current metagame, as well as a spark to discussion on these things.

We are accepting nominations for rank changes and newly ranked pokemon. The VR council will vote on nominations from posts every so often for updates. Please ensure your nominations are well considered and backed up with evidence as this may sway the votes - especially nominations to rank Unranked pokemon, which we will expect replay links to demonstrate their effectiveness.

Tiers are currently ordered alphabetically, this may also change as the tiers get more nuanced over time.

FULL VISUAL TIER LIST - TO BE UPDATED

TO BE UPDATED

S tier

Milotic​

A tier

A+

Arcanine​

Articuno-G​

Florges​

Rotom-H​

Skuntank​

Slowbro-G​

A

Bellibolt​

Espeon​

Mudsdale​

Pawmot​

Rhydon​

Salazzle​

Tauros-P-F​

Wo-Chien​

Zoroark​

A-

Bombirdier​

Cramorant​

Delphox​

Dudunsparce​

Goodra​

Sandslash-A​

Scrafty​

Tatsugiri​

Typhlosion-H​

Venusaur​

B tier

B+

Altaria​

Ambipom​

Bruxish​

Decidueye-H​

Electrode-H​

Frosmoth​

Grimmsnarl​

Golurk​

Hariyama​

Hoopa​

Palossand​

Persian-A​

Qwilfish​

Qwilfish-H​

Uxie​

B

Avalugg-H​

Braviary-H​

Floatzel​

Magneton​

Oricorio​

Sneasel​

Sneasel-H​

B-

Brute Bonnet​

Dipplin​

Froslass​

Glastrier​

Grafaiai​

Hitmonlee​

Houndstone​

Indeedee-F​

Lanturn​

Mesprit​

Naclstack​

Oricorio-P​

Orthworm​

Sandaconda​

Sceptile​

Shaymin​

Snorlax​

Thwackey​

Trevenant​

C tier

C+

Alcremie​

Farigiraf​

Mismagius​

Poliwrath​

Rotom-C​

Whimsicott​

Vikavolt​

C

Abomasnow​

Arboliva​

Articuno​

Coalossal​

Ditto​

Emboar​

Exeggutor-A​

Jolteon​

Kingdra​

Lurantis​

Lycanroc​

Malamar​

Minior​

Passimian​

Regirock​

Sableye​

Sandslash​

Venomoth​

Virizion​

 

[Aurist]

Our current VR council is made up of the following members:

VR Council

asa
Aurist
Bella
Bouff
DripLegend
DugZa
etern
fish anemometer
gulch
kyuss
Morge
MZ
tom holland
sufys
zS

NEW rank
NEW Pokemon are yet to be ranked due to being recently added to the tier.

None

VR COUNCIL VOTING HISTORY

VR COUNCIL VOTING

April 2024 - First Shifts
May 2024 - Lettered tiers
June 2024 - Nomination based
August 2024- New + nominations + C tiers
September 2024 - New + nominations
October-November 2024 - Full slate + UR nominations
January-February 2025 - Nominations

 

[Aurist]

We have an update for the SV PU Viability Rankings! This update progresses us from preliminary "Top/High/Mid/Low" tiers to more specific letter rankings as are standard for a more developed VR. The voting has changed ranks as follows:

Top

Flamigo -> A
Florges -> A+
Slowbro-Galar -> S

High

Altaria -> A-
Arcanine -> A+
Articuno-Galar -> A-
Bellibolt -> S
Bronzong -> A
Delphox -> A+
Emboar -> A-
Gastrodon -> A
Gligar -> A
Golurk -> A
Goodra -> A-
Grimmsnarl -> A-
Inteleon -> A+
Kilowattrel -> A
Milotic -> A
Mudsdale -> A
Pawmot -> A-
Rotom-Heat -> A
Salazzle -> A-
Sandslash-Alola -> A-
Scrafty -> A
Scream Tail -> A-
Scyther -> A-
Skuntank -> A+
Staraptor -> A
Tatsugiri -> B+
Tauros-Paldea-Aqua -> A+
Tauros-Paldea-Fire -> A
Toxtricity -> A
Wo-Chien -> A
Zoroark -> A

Mid

Abomasnow -> B
Ambipom -> B+
Bombirdier -> A-
Bruxish -> B+
Coalossal -> B+
Decidueye -> A-
Decidueye-Hisui -> B
Dudunsparce -> B
Duraludon -> B+
Electrode-Hisui -> B+
Glastrier -> B
Grafaiai -> B
Hariyama -> B+
Heracross -> B+
Hitmonlee -> B
Houndstone -> A-
Kingdra -> B-
Meloetta -> B+
Mesprit -> B
Minior -> B+
Oricorio-Sensu -> B+
Palossand -> B
Qwilfish -> B
Regirock -> B-
Rotom-Mow -> B+
Sandaconda -> B
Snorlax -> B-
Tornadus -> B
Virizion -> B

Low

Alcremie -> C+
Avalugg-Hisui -> B-
Braviary-Hisui -> B-
Charizard -> C
Ditto -> C
Drifblim -> C
Exeggutor-Alola -> B-
Farigiraf -> B
Floatzel -> C
Froslass -> B
Frosmoth -> C
Hitmontop -> UR
Hoopa -> C+
Jolteon -> C
Lanturn -> C
Lycanroc -> B-
Magneton -> C
Mismagius -> C
Muk -> C
Orthworm -> C
Poliwrath -> C
Porygon2 -> C
Qwilfish-Hisui -> B-
Rhydon -> C
Sandslash -> B-
Sceptile -> C+
Smeargle -> C
Sneasel -> C
Thwackey -> C
Toxicroak -> C+
Uxie -> C
Vikavolt -> C+
Vulpix -> UR
Weezing -> UR
Whimsicott -> B-

The full VR council voting for this round is linked here.

As an additional note, you may notice the creation of the C+ tier despite that tier not being a category for voting on. Due to C tier being very large and there being a significant enough number of pokemon with split votes in the area of B- to C, this tier was created.

Now that we have progressed to letter rankings, we are accepting nominations for rank changes and newly ranked pokemon. The VR council will now be voting on nominations from posts here rather than large sweeping votes on the whole tier. Please ensure your nominations are well considered and backed up with evidence as this may sway the votes!

 

[658Greninja]

Snorlax being a B- mon in PU is kinda wild. What happened to my boi?

 

[MC Squared]

Snorlax being a B- mon in PU is kinda wild. What happened to my boi?

Most of the A rank Pokémon are Fighting-types

 

[Aurist]

I'd like to kick off with a couple nominations in the hopes it inspires others to make their own noms.

Naclstack UR -> B

Naclstack is currently the only Unranked pokemon present in our sample teams, which I think is argument enough to include it in our VR. Naclstack is quite well matched into this tier, with its high bulk/status immunity/Salt Cure being a nuisance for our fat mons, and it being a specially bulky mon that can still prevent an Arcanine sweep (and win vs it in the case of curse sets) is a very clear role for it in teams.

Hoopa C+ -> B

Hoopa has been quite clearly underrated in the last vote IMO, with the general increase in viability of Scarfers with Trick, Hoopa emerges as the hardest hitting option for this while still outspeeding our fast unscarfed mons and also providing teams with a temporary backup Sdef switch in to lessen the pressure on our special tanks like Florges/AV Glowbro/Gastrodon/etc which are subject to quite a lot of chip. I think Hoopa is much easier to slot into a team than its current C tier status conveys.

Decidueye A- -> A

I think that Decidueye has been far too prominent for too long in the current meta to be as low as A-. Decidueye is seen commonly in offense, balance, hyper offense and bulky offense alike, matches very well into top mons in the tier and always gets value. It's one of the most splashable mons in the tier, it has top 10 usage last month and saw common use in PULT. It's a mon that is a flexible slot being able to check top offense mons like Tauros-Aqua, threaten faster sweepers with stab priority, break a variety of top tier fat mons (Glowbro, Bellibolt, Gastrodon, Florges, Milotic etc) while being immune to contact effects, and act as a late game cleaner/wincon and this is with the same set. It also has set variety as it's a passable physdef mon/defogger but this is significantly lesser to the SD set. I don't think it needs to push as high as A+ but it's also not that far off either. Easy A for me personally.

I think there's more we can adjust but I'll leave it to others as people on discord have had some strong opinions on some of these placements.

 

[Theycallmephil]

Meant to write this last night oopsies,
But without further ado I'd like to make some noms of my own

UR ->B tier

As previously stated Naclstack is the only unranked pokemon on a sample team(and a rather potent one at that), it is not just for this reason but also for the many tools at its disposal such as salt cure,status immunity, surprisingly valuable pure rock typing and access to recovery. That I believe this pokemon should be ranked. Not much else here.

Now for my more original noms...

B- ->B

Avalugg hisui or Havalugg has long cemented itself as a spinner with great attack to threaten numerous blockers, (Noteably Decidueye, golurk and even palossand) I personally think the splashable nature and unexpected reliability of this pokemon are undermined by its current rank
With tools like impeccable coverage, access to recover, the devastating mountain gale signature move and the aforementioned spin, avalugg has always leaned towards more offensive teams and in the current meta I feel it fills that role very well.

B -> A- or B+

Talk about a sleeper pick, dudunsparce cements itself as an absolutely devastating calm mind sweeper in the PU tier, with near infinite coverage, The insanely high powered boomburst, surprisingly good invested bulk, and a nice anti-knock/intim tech ability in rattled aswell as reliable recovery this behemoth of a snake can be quite a pain to take down and even harder to take a hit from, with the rapid downfall of former normal type rival in snorlax, dudunsparce has a pretty easy time sealing it's slot in teams, that's not to say its without flaws as it has the same struggles as other set-up sweepers, a strong dislike for moves like trick and toxic.
However these issues are things most teams are already planning for before even adding dudunsparce
Overall I think B is far too low for this powerhouse.
[Edit] all noms beyond this point were added after the posts may 25th post date.

A- -> A

Bombirdier looks like it would struggle to set itself apart from the omnipresent skuntank but, using its flying typing,access to pivoting moves, and superior attack
This pokemon has had little trouble making a name for itself in sv PU, bombirdier has the fun ability to keep most fighting types off the field using its stabs, as well as serving as a natural deterrent to heracross, a pokemon that usually doesn't care about skunktank. And of course we can't mention bombirdier w/o bringing up its other utility options, with moves like Stealth Rock/Roost/parting shot to name a few this pokemon finds itself very customizable to exactly what your teams needs.
It is for this reason I personally feel it meets all the criteria of an A tier threat

B -> B+

Seems weird to nom palossand up after singing bombirdiers praises but wtv
I was not a believer at the start of this meta because we got several new ground types which have all quickly become meta staples, but access to recovery, an amazing typing and weirdly perfect MUs into several offensive threats, mainly toxtricity, i believe this pokemon deserves to be moved up a rank.

A- -> A

This pokemon is extremely versatile, naturally the first instinct is to use its incredible wishpassing ability, and this instinct is not wrong, it is incredible at this job, infact it's by far the best at it imo
It has also shown itself to have promise as a set up sweeper, it's great bulk and extensive movepool allow it to execute a Sub CM set with dangerous efficiency
Using high base power moves like boomburst and Stored power/Fire blast to make up for its low base offenses. And other non- sub tools such as encore/disable/etc.
As has been said before, I think as this meta evolves we will continue to see more and more scream tail.


A -> A-

I really do not see the hype
It's worse at its main sets than waterbull, and it has next to 0 utility compared to emboar. It's main boons are its access to will-o-wisp, intimidate, base 100 speed(which rlly isn't very remarkable) and decent enough physical bulk, this bulk is sort of sabotaged by the moves its forced to run and fire/fighting simply doesn't hit even close to the targets water/fighting hits, it's for this reason I think it only being 1 tier below its twin is incorrect
So I think we should demote redbull.

B -> C+

The terrain teams this pokemon have called home are no longer at the forefront of controversy or viability and as such I believe it should be rated pretty low as a mediocre abuser of a niche playstyle, infact I am moving it to be on-par with sceptile. Who does alot of the same things,
Now I kinda have to mention non-terrain hitmonlee, who is just outright bad, it has the hilarious honor of being the worst hitmon at spinning, it has an okay scarf set and more traditional offensive sets using reckless and occasionally white herb unburden.
Overall I don't think this pokemon is nearly as strong as the pokemon in B tier and as such does not deserve that ranking.

That's all I have for now but if it'd allowed I may look into more, (not rlly spellchecked well sorry)

 

[Scarf Kricketune]

A short post on some of my nominations:

Rises

A -> A+

Very strong setup sweeper that does make progress in various stages of the game while having excellent bulk, abilities and a great typing.
This mon has many ways to approach winning and can fit on various playstyles including Hyper Offense, Offense, Bulky Offense and even Balance, making it a very versatile mon that can make use of any of its three excellent abilities to become a win condition or to support the team via knock off and staying healthy with rest + shed skin while functioning as a status absorber. On BO and balance, Scrafty's excellent bulk allows it to come in on more passive mons such as Slowbro-Galar, gastrodon and even milotic and threatening to knock off an item or setting up. On HO and offense teams it can go much more offensive with either poison jab or iron head and the corresponding tera to deal with fairy types. Can also make use of other support moves such as taunt and encore to ease its setup.

B+ -> A-

This mon offers excellent role compression in addition to being one of the only spinners effectively able to dissuade houndstone from spinblocking. While its typing is not amazing i dont find it too hard to pair coalossal with teammates that can deal with water, ground, and fighting moves, making its job easier. It has become many players go to hazard control on bulkier teams which to me indicate a slight rise on its viability. Also flame body can straight up win you games.

Drops

A -> A-

While on paper this mon has a great defensive profile due to levitate cancelling out its quad weakness and water/rock moves having some great switch ins such as gastrodon and mudsdale, this mon has some points that in my opinion hinder its viability quite a bit. I find this mon hard to fit in teams because defensive fire types are honestly not that amazing at being walls or pivots. Offensively, It has an awkward speed tier but it also needs all the speed it can get, mainly to outspeed mons like tatsugiri, skuntank and heracross making it unable to run full bulk most of the times. It can be decent at breaking and keeping mons low via Nasty plot 2 attacks and pain split, however, gastrodon will hard shut you down eventually if it is packing surf. Also the moment this mon gets knocked off its performance drops off significantly. I’ll keep it at A- for now because I do believe it is overall better than rotom mow.

A -> A-

I understand that initially this would be regarded very highly due to it being the only real steel type in the tier (being able to tank quite a few hits). However, I do think that theres many issues that bronzong has that don’t make it a desirable pick in my teams. Bronzong becomes easily abusable by a lot of setup sweepers due to its awkward stabs and flat out not pressuring offensive mons enough to make them switch most of the times. Also, Skuntank being as common and highly rated means that it can come in on Bronzong quite easily and force progress on the opposing team. Getting knocked early is significant enough and it will most likely play happen due to bronzong usually having the role of Stealth rocker. This mon does offer you a bulky steel that can be good but it can potentially hinder your team more than what it offers.

 

[sufys]

a very short post
A+ -> A

while delphox is really powerful, it's hard to fit in practice - it stacks weaknesses with a lot of common picks such as slowbro-galar and arcanine, which makes it somewhat difficult to include on a team, it also is quite vulnerable to priority and has a pretty awkward speed tier which also holds it back. overall i think a slight drop is warranted

UR -> C
this should probably be on the vr, has a nice niche as a scarfer with knock + u turn, and having eq means it doesn't struggle as much with bellibolt as similar scarfers like flamigo, here's a replay of it in action from ssnl grand finals:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-766690

 

[Morge]

Oh right we can make noms now

A- -> B+

A- was definitely too high for this mon, its not really done much since shifts from what I've seen and definitely doesn't feel on the level of the other mons in its rank. Yeah its a scary wallbreaker on paper but it offers little else beyond that which makes it much less appealing compared to other wallbreakers that are either faster or offer better defensive utility, even if they may not hit as hard. Like what walls does this actually safely come in other than wo-chien.

B -> C

Is snow actually a teamstyle people use post cetitan ban? Even if it is B rank for a mon who's only real purpose is to enable 1 niche teamstyle feels wrong. Like maybe I'm wrong and snow is a sleeper broken archetype or maybe specs is real but C rank feels right for what it is given that thwackey is similar in that it enables one archetype and does basically nothing else, and terrain feels slightly more prevalent than snow at least.

A- -> A

It was either this or moving skunk down a rank and I feel like this is more reasonable. I feel like this being a full 2 ranks below skunk is kinda wack when they bring a lot of the same positives (stab knock, stab sucker, dark type good) and bomb has some notable positives over skunk with utility moves like rocks and pivoting, even if I think bomb is overall worse the gap isn't that large.

 

[Corvy]

Hey fellas, this'll be my first attempt at nominating things and it'll mostly be rises from UR-C or B I think lol

Rises:

UR - C
This mon has some potential in this meta with the combo of electric immunity for volt blocking, stalling toxic turns with fake out, or crippling threats with a fast nuzzle. The meta, outside of some scarfers does not really outspeed this rat, so it can easily cripple things and switch out with Volt switch. Mons that work well with it also happen to be pretty good currently! Florges, Scream Tail, Wetbull, and the scarf birds combo well with it, while some more niche picks benefit from combokng with raichu. My fav example being Orthworm. All in all I think this mon has a small niche it can abuse rn

UR - B+
This little salt goober does pretty well into the meta rn imo. Rocks + salt curing the bulkier mons in the tier, forcing switch ins is surprisingly effective rn as most of the breakers in this tier also can't really afford switching in and risking a salt cure e.g. wetbull would lose 25%+ on a switch-in, flamigo dislikes rocks and salt cure.

C+ - B
I think this mon is getting underrated rn. Yes Florges exists, but Alcremie can still do mid-lategame sweeps, especially with most teams not being prepped for it at all.

B+ - A
Ambipom has a niche in that it punishes aggressive teams like almost no other. In combination with Belli, Glowbro, and Milo it can pretty much frustrate and ruin a lot of offense and balance teams. Stab Fake Out + U-Turn give it an insane amount of pressure. The argument against it rn is that it kinda loses to contact abilities, which imo are slowly getting phased out in favor of electromorphosis on bellibolt, and coal being harder to fit in teams imo.

Drops:

A- - B-
I do not see the hype around this mon, it has abysmal typing and pretty much loses to all meta threats, can't ever setup safely, and does nothing without setup.

C - UR
Get this goober out of the rankings. I love smeargle but you essentially play a 5v6 when you load this mon. Other mons set hazards up better than it, burning bulwark is neat but isn't enough to carry it out of dogwater tier. It has removal, yes, but there are basically 0 opportunities for this mon to even do that.

A- - B
This mon did not live up to the initial hype as I hope it would. It does do prankster things, yes, but often just feels lackluster in practice, be it offensive or utility sets

 

[gulch]

vr noms, grouped and ordered by how spicy the takes are

ICE COLD


A+ > S
Do I really need to explain this one? Consistent performer throughout all of PULT and has a billion tricks up its sleeve. Synthesis + Wish for staggered recovery alongside valuable team support, Psychic Noise to win certain matchups easily, Calm Mind to become massively threatening offensively, and Scarf to take advantage of anything that spent too much time proofing against the first three. There's hardly ever a game where this shows up and doesn't do SOMETHING. Even when it's not out, Florges is actively informing your decisions throughout the game because it's capable of so much. Not sure why this went down to begin with.


A > A+
I don't think this is remotely banworthy but it is really damn good, Shed Skin continues to be dishonest and lets you set up on meta staples with 0 fear. Bellibolt? Bitchmade. Coalossal? Who's that? Tera Poison helps you push through your checks really handily too, and even shit like Rest is viable.

MILD


B+ > A-, if not A
Insanely good at punishing meta trends right now, STAB Fake Out and Knock + Turn means this little shit is always providing some kind of value and the last slot is insanely customizable. Just great at dissuading offense and being really annoying otherwise.


B- > B
THE hyper offense lead. Just very good and consistent at its job, gets shit done 99% of the time, has a lot of neat little tech options here and there. Mostly just making this nom because Froslass is B and I rate the two equally at least (maybe even Lycan > Froslass, but that's partly personal bias), and moving Froslass down seems a bit less reasonable.


B > B+
I will forever be this mon's #1 champion, it's so good. Justified helps a lot of teams since Knock Off is extremely potent in this meta, the speed tier notably being above the bulls and Delphox is good, and your moves and item slot are extremely customizable. Beats the brakes off of Scrafty, Palossand, Gastrodon, Milotic, and Golurk too.


A- > A
Good for a lot of the same reasons Virizion is good, trading the speed for recovery, priority, and a host of utility options. Shadow Sneak is some of the best revenge killing this tier has to offer and being a Ghost-type gives you a lot of good defensive midgrounds, notably blocking Spin, Ambipom Fake Out, and totally stonewalling most Aqua Tauros sets. Good mon, brings a lot to offensive teams that would otherwise be using two or three slots to do all of the jobs Decidueye does in one.


C+ > C
These only really see use on terrain HO and that's not a playstyle I rate super highly when normal HO is so easy to pull off and often performs better. Alcremie in particular really suffers from the advent of Florges, and Sceptile just can't do much outside of terrain since it's unfortunately outclassed at almost everything.


A- > B+
In a tier where Florges is so insanely dominant, being a Dark-type without Knock Off kinda sucks! Setup is good and having nearly exclusive access to Parting Shot is cool, but I feel like the matchup spread just isn't there and this performs pretty poorly into a lot of common trends. It's slow, not exceptionally specially bulky, and just doesn't have a lot of moves that would really make its life easier. Sorry bro.

SALSA PICANTE


B- > B
He's that guy, honestly. Mountain Gale really sets Hug Juice Barrel apart from the competition, not much wants to come into it regardless and it makes pretty much every spinblocker think twice before coming in on you. Even some Tera Ghost stuff like Lycanroc crumbles out of sheer frailty, that 127 Attack makes even neutral hits hurt. Defensive typing is god-awful and will usually end up requiring Tera to fix, not going to defend that at all, but it's got the tools to be effective and is a huge asset to structures that really want hazards gone.


B+ > B-
Think to yourself. Think really hard. When was the last time you saw this on a serious, functioning team? Maybe once in PULT? The speed tier is amazing, but everything else this brings to the table is either laughable or done better by something else. Kilowattrel is already holding down the market as a fast Electric, SubSeed sets don't really function thanks to Toxtricity, other (better) Grass-types, and even shit like Specs Whimsicott, and the lack of power even with a Modest nature prevents you from claiming a lot of kills. I just see no reason to use this, really, it's kinda shitty at everything.


A- > B+
Natural Cure Simulator over here is good, but easily the worst removal option in the tier with the exception of maybe Scyther (more on him later). You lack the immediate threat of getting nuked that Tatsugiri provides and don't have the oodles of utility found on Coalossal or Alolan Sandslash. Your defensive typing is much better at base, and Tera can help you out of a lot of matchups, but I find A- hard to justify when eating hits and Defogging is all this really provides in a very offensively geared meta.


A- > B+, maybe further
Worst removal in the tier, probably. 105 Speed comes with some really awkward matchups, and a lot of the utility this provides can inadvertently cause problems for it in the long run. U-Turn makes your life hell if you run into Bellibolt + Coalossal cores (common) since a burned or paralyzed Scyther has a much harder time doing its job. You can deal with some offensive threats, but they either have ways to shore up their bulk, priority to snipe you with, or both, and your bulk largely relies on not getting knocked since without Boots you take 50% from the rocks you're intended to remove. Offensive sets also suck for the reasons outlined above, mons that beat it are just too common and several of them on a team at the same time is a regular occurrence.


C > UR
Not going to speak at length on any of these, just all kinda outclassed or statchecked by nearly everything. Drifblim is debatable since it does have a role on terrain HO, but I don't rate those teams super highly anyways.

SCALDING IRON GATES OF HELL


A+ > A-
Hear me out! Skunk's good. Great, even. However, this is the epitome of a roach mon. I agree that it being ranked two whole ranks above Bombirdier is a bit much, but I don't think moving Bombirdier up is the answer. Skuntank just happens to have the unfortunate reality of doing most things good enough and never quite being able to specialize in any one thing, and I think this ends up bringing it down a lot because the amount of role compression pushed onto it ends up wearing it down really hard. It's still a great fit on most teams and can provide tons of valuable utility, but I think the average Skuntank is trying to do a little too much at once in a tier that's consistently getting stronger and making it increasingly harder and harder to compete.

 

[kyuss]

Going to comment on some of the suggestions made.

from gulch post, while i agree with most of it, i had to disagree on those 3, comments in red:

A- > B+
In a tier where Florges is so insanely dominant, being a Dark-type without Knock Off kinda sucks! Setup is good and having nearly exclusive access to Parting Shot is cool, but I feel like the matchup spread just isn't there and this performs pretty poorly into a lot of common trends. It's slow, not exceptionally specially bulky, and just doesn't have a lot of moves that would really make its life easier. Sorry bro. - Altho i see where you are coming from, I think it has too many possibilities of sets to be dropped to B+. Awesome typing, STAB that works great with some of your sets by weakening special attackers, and great typing that sometimes is just what you need to close gaps in your build. By seeing it in teampreview you have to wonder if it'll be pure utility, resttalk, subbu, bu+berry+pickpocket, parting shot pivot, choice/any item trick, tw annoyance and so on. And if it's not setup, it doesn't even need as it has an amazing Attack stat. One mistake and it still has the potential of messing you up. I think A- is the perfect place. Not as easy to fit in teams but still great utility and threat. (also tera Steel and byebye Florges/most of it's counters)


C > UR
Not going to speak at length on any of these, just all kinda outclassed or statchecked by nearly everything. Drifblim is debatable since it does have a role on terrain HO, but I don't rate those teams super highly anyways. - I think if a mon from C deserves to be unranked it's Muk and MAYBE Lanturn. The remainder while pretty underwhelming in current meta have some uniqueness to its role that should guarantee a spot at least in C.


A+ > A-
Hear me out! Skunk's good. Great, even. However, this is the epitome of a roach mon. I agree that it being ranked two whole ranks above Bombirdier is a bit much, but I don't think moving Bombirdier up is the answer. Skuntank just happens to have the unfortunate reality of doing most things good enough and never quite being able to specialize in any one thing, and I think this ends up bringing it down a lot because the amount of role compression pushed onto it ends up wearing it down really hard. It's still a great fit on most teams and can provide tons of valuable utility, but I think the average Skuntank is trying to do a little too much at once in a tier that's consistently getting stronger and making it increasingly harder and harder to compete. - Mildly disagree, only on the point of putting it in the same rank as Bombirdier. I think Bombirdier is ok at A- but Skuntank still has the edge over it. The only scenario I see advantage in picking Bombirdier is 1- if you need rocks and have to do some role compression and 2 - if it synergies better (like needing a ground immunity). If neither of these scenarios is true Skunk is still the better choice, so maybe A is more realistic?

Now from Scarf Kricketune , this is the one I disagree the most. IMO if anything Rotom-h should be up to A+, not down to A- and i'll try to elaborate mostly based on his comments.

A -> A-

While on paper this mon has a great defensive profile due to levitate cancelling out its quad weakness and water/rock moves having some great switch ins such as gastrodon and mudsdale, this mon has some points that in my opinion hinder its viability quite a bit. I find this mon hard to fit in teams because defensive fire types are honestly not that amazing at being walls or pivots. Offensively, It has an awkward speed tier but it also needs all the speed it can get, mainly to outspeed mons like tatsugiri, skuntank and heracross making it unable to run full bulk most of the times. It can be decent at breaking and keeping mons low via Nasty plot 2 attacks and pain split, however, gastrodon will hard shut you down eventually if it is packing surf. Also the moment this mon gets knocked off its performance drops off significantly. I’ll keep it at A- for now because I do believe it is overall better than rotom mow.

1 - "I find this mon hard to fit in teams because defensive fire types are honestly not that amazing at being walls or pivots." - actually quite the opposite, II believe that Fire is an exceptional defensive typing, especially in the current meta. As long as you manage hazards and/or avoid having HDB removed. It resists 8 types and is immune to both ground, burn and paralysis. It's huge. Being weak to water and rock specially right now is not that big deal given their scarcity.

2 - "Offensively, It has an awkward speed tier but it also needs all the speed it can get, mainly to outspeed mons like tatsugiri, skuntank and heracross making it unable to run full bulk most of the times." - Initially I shared this idea, but upon using it extensively I started to actually find it's speed quite great. it's faster than things it doesn't want to take hits and slower than most things it wants to take hits before pivoting out. Those 3 you mentioned are good examples to be faster, and i would cite the likes of max speed arcanine, delphox, staraptor, scyther, electrode-h and flamigo as cases it's good to be slower.

3 - "It can be decent at breaking and keeping mons low via Nasty plot 2 attacks and pain split, however, gastrodon will hard shut you down eventually if it is packing surf." - I think this part outlines it's prowess rather than underlying it. Surf Gastrodon altho seeing more usage by now is still one of the easiest to deal with. If it doesn't have Surf, Gastrodon becomes easy setup fodder otherwise shouldn't be hard to get around. This damage done with surf can also come against the opp in future as a cycle of setup > pain split > attack is enough to deal with a lot of threats and in this case it's low HP/decent speed is an advantage.

besides that, I think a pokemon that has such good matchup against most of the S/A viability rank has no business in being that low. Just to illustrate:

: punishes both with NP + Pain Split and you can also choose between positioning with Volt Switch or dealing a huge amount of damage with Overheat. Pain Split is specially very good against both, given their high HP compared to Rotom-H. With a favorable Tera it can even mean GG.

: Rotom-H is a good check for both, able to regain momentum and illustrates two cases where it's actually good to be slower (even if not slower than bulky arcanine, it'll hit you with priority). Also depending on your tera you can create some mindgames.

: very good check, if it's choice you immediately can punish, if it's CM you can either setup faster with NP or reposition immediately.

: not the best check, but illustrates a case where it's good to be faster and allow you to gain momentum + avoid knock off. Skuntank also hates taking hits from Rotom in exchange of nothing.

the bad matchups from S and A+ are both and , but neither like switching on Rotom. So yes, Rotom-h either punishes passive mons, gain momentum or doesn't allow S and A+ to switch in comfortably, and is also one of the best mons to make progress early/midgame as you can mindlessly setup without fearing any significant drawbacks as it's very likely it'll be able to Pain Split away the damage at some point.

With that said, A -> A+: tl;dr - ultimate glue mon.


My last suggestion is B- -> A-

How can Whimsicott be ranked alongside Mesprit, or even below Decidueye-H, Virizion, and Tornadus? It’s simply inconceivable considering what it brings to the table. Whimsicott is an Encore Prankster, making it a threat that no Dark type would dare to mess with due to its powerful Moonblast STAB. Though it's frail, Whimsicott is a fast pivot, with enough speed to be faster than +1 Scrafty and has numerous key resistances making up for its lack of bulk. It's versatile enough to run Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers, or Pixie Plate to enhance its STAB moves, hell, even Choice Specs for a surprisingly strong hit or to lure its main counter with Switcheroo(e.g., Slowbro-Galar). Furthermore, it can frustrate opponents with a bulky Leech Seed and Substitute set. Overall, Whimsicott provides significantly more utility than almost anything in B (B+ somewhat included) tier and can arguably outclass some Pokémon in A- as well.

 

[gulch]

Going to comment on some of the suggestions made.

from gulch post, while i agree with most of it, i had to disagree on those 3, comments in red:


Now from Scarf Kricketune , this is the one I disagree the most. IMO if anything Rotom-h should be up to A+, not down to A- and i'll try to elaborate mostly based on his comments.



1 - "I find this mon hard to fit in teams because defensive fire types are honestly not that amazing at being walls or pivots." - actually quite the opposite, II believe that Fire is an exceptional defensive typing, especially in the current meta. As long as you manage hazards and/or avoid having HDB removed. It resists 8 types and is immune to both ground, burn and paralysis. It's huge. Being weak to water and rock specially right now is not that big deal given their scarcity.

2 - "Offensively, It has an awkward speed tier but it also needs all the speed it can get, mainly to outspeed mons like tatsugiri, skuntank and heracross making it unable to run full bulk most of the times." - Initially I shared this idea, but upon using it extensively I started to actually find it's speed quite great. it's faster than things it doesn't want to take hits and slower than most things it wants to take hits before pivoting out. Those 3 you mentioned are good examples to be faster, and i would cite the likes of max speed arcanine, delphox, staraptor, scyther, electrode-h and flamigo as cases it's good to be slower.

3 - "It can be decent at breaking and keeping mons low via Nasty plot 2 attacks and pain split, however, gastrodon will hard shut you down eventually if it is packing surf." - I think this part outlines it's prowess rather than underlying it. Surf Gastrodon altho seeing more usage by now is still one of the easiest to deal with. If it doesn't have Surf, Gastrodon becomes easy setup fodder otherwise shouldn't be hard to get around. This damage done with surf can also come against the opp in future as a cycle of setup > pain split > attack is enough to deal with a lot of threats and in this case it's low HP/decent speed is an advantage.

besides that, I think a pokemon that has such good matchup against most of the S/A viability rank has no business in being that low. Just to illustrate:

: punishes both with NP + Pain Split and you can also choose between positioning with Volt Switch or dealing a huge amount of damage with Overheat. Pain Split is specially very good against both, given their high HP compared to Rotom-H. With a favorable Tera it can even mean GG.

: Rotom-H is a good check for both, able to regain momentum and illustrates two cases where it's actually good to be slower (even if not slower than bulky arcanine, it'll hit you with priority). Also depending on your tera you can create some mindgames.

: very good check, if it's choice you immediately can punish, if it's CM you can either setup faster with NP or reposition immediately.

: not the best check, but illustrates a case where it's good to be faster and allow you to gain momentum + avoid knock off. Skuntank also hates taking hits from Rotom in exchange of nothing.

the bad matchups from S and A+ are both and , but neither like switching on Rotom. So yes, Rotom-h either punishes passive mons, gain momentum or doesn't allow S and A+ to switch in comfortably, and is also one of the best mons to make progress early/midgame as you can mindlessly setup without fearing any significant drawbacks as it's very likely it'll be able to Pain Split away the damage at some point.

With that said, A -> A+: tl;dr - ultimate glue mon.


My last suggestion is B- -> A-

How can Whimsicott be ranked alongside Mesprit, or even below Decidueye-H, Virizion, and Tornadus? It’s simply inconceivable considering what it brings to the table. Whimsicott is an Encore Prankster, making it a threat that no Dark type would dare to mess with due to its powerful Moonblast STAB. Though it's frail, Whimsicott is a fast pivot, with enough speed to be faster than +1 Scrafty and has numerous key resistances making up for its lack of bulk. It's versatile enough to run Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers, or Pixie Plate to enhance its STAB moves, hell, even Choice Specs for a surprisingly strong hit or to lure its main counter with Switcheroo(e.g., Slowbro-Galar). Furthermore, it can frustrate opponents with a bulky Leech Seed and Substitute set. Overall, Whimsicott provides significantly more utility than almost anything in B (B+ somewhat included) tier and can arguably outclass some Pokémon in A- as well.

On the topic of unranking Muk - do consider it's the only reason why stall really functions since Sticky Hold makes it the only real knock absorber available. I feel like that alone is enough to maintain being ranked.

 

[kyuss]

On the topic of unranking Muk - do consider it's the only reason why stall really functions since Sticky Hold makes it the only real knock absorber available. I feel like that alone is enough to maintain being ranked.

I kind of disagree for current meta. If you are going to use stall I believe glowbro can be considered a must for how much it brings and in that sense it would probably have better synergy with Dipplin or even a gimmicky Sticky Hold Gastrodon.

 

[Bella]

So i was planning on making a post when i got on VR council but i kinda forgo to do that, so we are doing it now! Its time for "Bella writes another multiple paragraph long vr post!!!!"

Rises:
A -> A+
This Pokemon is ridiculously strong. Choice Band Poltergeist obliterates anything that does not resist it or is named Ambi or Staraptor, while the coverage is excellent and can oftentimes be annoying (looking at you, Dynamic Punch confusions.) I think it also helps that the 2 best Pokemon in the tier and the two best psywalls (Belli and Galarbro) both just cannot deal with Golurk at all and let it come in often to break teams apart. Simply put, amazing mon and deserves the rise up, I would agrue its easily better than both Florges and Delphox atm.

A -> A+
Im lumping these two together because both do the same thing; they are easily the most splashable revenge killers in the tier atm. If you can name any frail fast attacker in the tier, these two can and will revenge kill them. Not much to say about it, these two are just extremely solid and deserve the raise up.

A- -> A
This is a backbone on hyper offense for good reason. melt already kinda went into it on his post already but tldr, excellent revenge killer and wallbreaker with a not terrible utility movepool for some nice utility sets to come up. Not much else to say here.

B+ -> A
OK here me out: This mon is super good. The typing is actually pretty stellar for the tier, Fire-Rock allows it to check a variety of threats like Raptor, Skunk, K9, Delphox, etc. Flame Body is a bitch too, it makes it really frusting to try and pivot around it with something like Scyther and Ambipom while risking the burn. And thats not the mention its agruably the best spinner rn and has the ability to set up rocks. Shockenly solid offensive typing too imo, and easily one of the most annoying, yet slowly rising, Pokemon in the tier.

B -> A-
I think people are really really underrating Palossand rn and I have no idea why. I have been really liking Itemless or Colbur berry atm, you can check Golurk with that set which is big imo. The defensive typing is great as always, especially with Tera water as it means you can check and beat k9, both bulls, Scyther, etc really easily and either set up rocks or threaten them or a switchin with a free Sorching Sand burn. In fact, i think atm its the single best spinblocker in the tier. Easy rise that is well deserved.

B- -> B
I know, I know, im bias, but Whimsicott is actually really really good. Specs Infiltrator is really solid atm with Switcheroo, Since Dark- and Fighting-types populate the tier hard and Bronzong and Galarbro really dont want to switch in in fear of a switcheroo. Encore Boots pivot sets arent terrible as well, as the Dark-types dont want to free pivot into an Encore over fear of being blasted by Moonblast. Especially when you look at who its surrounded by in its own tier like Hlugg, Alolan Eggs, and Sandslash-K, and looking at B where i think it easily is better than everything in that tier bar Palo, Viriz, and Torn, I think its a no brainer for it to deserve a small rise up.

Drops:

A -> A- / B+
The bella take of the day is that Gligar is both seriously underwhelming and very difficult to fit. Gligar is good, yes, but it has to compete with both Mudsdale, Gastrodon, and Palo for the Ground-type slot and its oftentimes difficult for me at least to justify it. It's weakness to Knock Off to me is extremely bad, it makes it a shaky answer to Skunk and Scrafty and Zoro while i think is really big for Ground-types to be able to comfortably switch into. I think the 4MSS it suffers from struggling to pick two of U-turn, Knock, and Toxic is really awful too since it needs all 3 to really be a stellar wall. The inability to even get leftovers recovery also is pretty awful imo, as it will be taking so much chip just swapping around from Rocks while the other 3 Ground-types either have leftovers to offset that or have recovery. Imo easily the most overrated mon in the tier, and speaking of overrated....

A- -> B
yeah this Pokemon is a noob trap. At the start of the meta it seemed cool with Bulk Up sets but now its hard to justify over any other Bulky Setup sweeper like Arc and Scream tail. No knock also really fucking sucks!

C -> UR
Going to make this really quick but tldr these mons suck and havent seen usage in forever and are only VRed out of the fact that there were good in DLC 1. Take them down to UR where they deserve to be in.

 

[plznostep]

hey, I want to add a few noms of UR mons that deserve a spot on the tier list

from UR to C/B- rank
from UR to C rank
from C to C+/Stay C

One day, I came to Scarf Kricketune after discovering Sun is actually rather good. It can function pretty well in the tier, with Scovillain being great against offensive teams with Choice Specs and Charizard being very good into bulky teams, with Pokemon like Goodra finding themselves 2HKO'd by Choice Specs in Sun. This leaves the biggest problem for Sun teams being one Pokemon in Coalossal, as while its not going to be able to keep taking on Sun abusers, especially if Pawmot is being ran alongside for another chance for an abuser, but it will be able to spin off your hazards while getting rocks up itself, which isn't unplayable for Sun but it is rather nasty to deal with. Otherwise, its a pretty viable playstyle that deserves to be ranked and I hope to see more of it in the future. I was actually gonna maybe nominate it higher but its too early to do that so uh play with it more please >_<

Here are some replays that me and Scarf picked up just showing what it can do.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2140695976?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2140683474
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2140649096?p2

from UR to C/C+
from UR to C

Psychic Terrain has also popped up recently and I think it deserves a spot on the VR. There are quite a few unburden users and notably, Sceptile becomes a lot better when under Psychic Terrain. Sure, It doesn't get a Leaf Blade boost, but it does allow it to run Earthquake which is very notable for targets such as Bellibolt, Slowbro-Galar, and Skuntank. Blocking Priority is also useful for blocking Skuntank's Sucker Punch and Earthquake is notably non-contact, meaning it doesn't have to worry about Static or taking too much damage from Aftermath + Rocky Helmet on Skuntank. Additionally, there are some Expanding Force users, such as Delphox, which are exclusive to Psychic Terrain and are also pretty good. elevating their already good offenses to new heights while again, blocking priority which is very notable for Psychic-types for again, Skuntank.

This is where Veluza comes in. Veluza outside of Psychic Terrain isn't too notable of a Pokemon, but in Psychic Terrain it is much better with it essentially acting as a Shell Smash Pokemon. The blocking of priority stops Pokemon that may otherwise be problematic in Decidueye and Skuntank and Psycho Cut is addtionally boosted in the terrain, allowing Veluza to threaten the tier's walls in Bellibolt and Slowbro-Galar much more. Veluza's defensive profile also lets it set up on some of the tier's Fighting-types, such as Tauros-Paldea-Aqua, Tauros-Paldea-Blaze, and Flamigo, meaning it can definitely find opportunities to set up in a game.

Here are some replays showing what Psychic Terrain can do.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2140119338
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2140113105
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2135103959

 

[Aurist]

Hello PU,

Thanks to everyone who made nominations, we got far more than I expected so that's great!

VR Council are gonna begin voting and the deadline for this is Sunday June 23rd.

Nominations above this post will be in the voting, any further nominations will be considered in the next round of voting. Thanks

 

[Aurist]

Slight update to this - due to NU banning Drought, pokemon with nominations on basis of their performance in Sun will be re-evaluated.

Vulpix and Scovillain, due to being unranked before will be removed from consideration in this voting. They can be nominated later if they prove viable.

Charizard's nomination up was based on Sun, but as it was already ranked on the VR it will be kept on for voting. VR Council members might however re-evaluate their vote based on the Drought ban.

Thanks and RIP Sun

 

[mistermath]

Hey! It's a bit late, but I'd like to comment on one of the nominations and also make one for the next round of voting.

A -> A- / B+
The bella take of the day is that Gligar is both seriously underwhelming and very difficult to fit. Gligar is good, yes, but it has to compete with both Mudsdale, Gastrodon, and Palo for the Ground-type slot and its oftentimes difficult for me at least to justify it. It's weakness to Knock Off to me is extremely bad, it makes it a shaky answer to Skunk and Scrafty and Zoro while i think is really big for Ground-types to be able to comfortably switch into. I think the 4MSS it suffers from struggling to pick two of U-turn, Knock, and Toxic is really awful too since it needs all 3 to really be a stellar wall. The inability to even get leftovers recovery also is pretty awful imo, as it will be taking so much chip just swapping around from Rocks while the other 3 Ground-types either have leftovers to offset that or have recovery. Imo easily the most overrated mon in the tier, and speaking of overrated....

I don't agree with two of the presented arguments for this nomination. Yes, it suffers from having to pick between toxic/koff/u-turn, but that's because it's the only ground type in the tier to have any of those options to begin with, which is an absolutely gigantic advantage. It means that it's less vulnerable to setup, it's more capable of making progress, and instead of being a momentum sink, it's a momentum generator. While it obviously doesn't want to lose Eviolite, the only other ground that takes knock off well is mudsdale, since gastrodon is typically not a physical wall and Palossand is ghost-type. And yes, I do mean other; Gligar itself is a plenty fine koff absorber, since eviolite acts like a mini-colbur berry in the sense that it cuts into koff's damage, unlike the lefties that the other grounds run.

The one big problem I do agree with is that Gligar lacks recovery. Without roost, it's outdone in longevity by both palossand and gastrodon. That said, I see it as the one thing making it not busted, rather than the one thing keeping it from being excellent. With its access to u-turn, gligar has a clear role as the best wall in the tier for offensive playstyles, trading its health for reliable progress, whether it be via passive damage or momentum. Sure, it's not great both on or against stall, but stall's hardly in the picture in PU atm.

And now for my nom for next round:

A -> B+

Okay, what does this thing actually do? It's a knock absorber, except it's actually weak to the secondary STAB of skuntank/scrafty and hit with sludge bomb from zoroark. It's a leech seed absorber, except the only other leech seeder in the tier is whimsicott, who slams it with moonblast/u-turn and whom wo-chien can't actually touch. It resists golurk's STABs, except both of golurk's coverage options in ice punch and dynamic punch decimate it. Add these to the fact that wo-chien is an absolute momentum drain and gets consistently chunked by all the u-turns from various other mons it can maybe sometimes try to switch into, and it's not clear what on earth this mon actually does.

There are two things as far as I can see that keep wo-chien around, and they are that:
a) Wo-chien happens to take most STAB choiced attacks from the tier fairly well, such that it can technically switch into those and create progress via ruination/koff/leech,
b) Tera poison solves basically all the problems I've listed above.

The limitation of the former is that it gets nailed by all the coverage moves these mons run (Ex: ice beam from inteleon), and the limitation of the latter is that it's a mon that's only useful once it's tera'd, and tera'ing also prevents it from doing the things it's supposed to do in the first place on paper, such as resisting golurk's EQs and meloetta's psyshocks.

In summary, I believe gligar is the best defensive glue for offense teams in the tier and should stay A, and wo-chien is a wall that isn't actually a wall and should be knocked down a peg or three.

 

[Scarf Kricketune]

Going to comment on some of the suggestions made.

from gulch post, while i agree with most of it, i had to disagree on those 3, comments in red:


Now from Scarf Kricketune , this is the one I disagree the most. IMO if anything Rotom-h should be up to A+, not down to A- and i'll try to elaborate mostly based on his comments.



1 - "I find this mon hard to fit in teams because defensive fire types are honestly not that amazing at being walls or pivots." - actually quite the opposite, II believe that Fire is an exceptional defensive typing, especially in the current meta. As long as you manage hazards and/or avoid having HDB removed. It resists 8 types and is immune to both ground, burn and paralysis. It's huge. Being weak to water and rock specially right now is not that big deal given their scarcity.

2 - "Offensively, It has an awkward speed tier but it also needs all the speed it can get, mainly to outspeed mons like tatsugiri, skuntank and heracross making it unable to run full bulk most of the times." - Initially I shared this idea, but upon using it extensively I started to actually find it's speed quite great. it's faster than things it doesn't want to take hits and slower than most things it wants to take hits before pivoting out. Those 3 you mentioned are good examples to be faster, and i would cite the likes of max speed arcanine, delphox, staraptor, scyther, electrode-h and flamigo as cases it's good to be slower.

3 - "It can be decent at breaking and keeping mons low via Nasty plot 2 attacks and pain split, however, gastrodon will hard shut you down eventually if it is packing surf." - I think this part outlines it's prowess rather than underlying it. Surf Gastrodon altho seeing more usage by now is still one of the easiest to deal with. If it doesn't have Surf, Gastrodon becomes easy setup fodder otherwise shouldn't be hard to get around. This damage done with surf can also come against the opp in future as a cycle of setup > pain split > attack is enough to deal with a lot of threats and in this case it's low HP/decent speed is an advantage.

besides that, I think a pokemon that has such good matchup against most of the S/A viability rank has no business in being that low. Just to illustrate:

: punishes both with NP + Pain Split and you can also choose between positioning with Volt Switch or dealing a huge amount of damage with Overheat. Pain Split is specially very good against both, given their high HP compared to Rotom-H. With a favorable Tera it can even mean GG.

: Rotom-H is a good check for both, able to regain momentum and illustrates two cases where it's actually good to be slower (even if not slower than bulky arcanine, it'll hit you with priority). Also depending on your tera you can create some mindgames.

: very good check, if it's choice you immediately can punish, if it's CM you can either setup faster with NP or reposition immediately.

: not the best check, but illustrates a case where it's good to be faster and allow you to gain momentum + avoid knock off. Skuntank also hates taking hits from Rotom in exchange of nothing.

the bad matchups from S and A+ are both and , but neither like switching on Rotom. So yes, Rotom-h either punishes passive mons, gain momentum or doesn't allow S and A+ to switch in comfortably, and is also one of the best mons to make progress early/midgame as you can mindlessly setup without fearing any significant drawbacks as it's very likely it'll be able to Pain Split away the damage at some point.

With that said, A -> A+: tl;dr - ultimate glue mon.


My last suggestion is B- -> A-

How can Whimsicott be ranked alongside Mesprit, or even below Decidueye-H, Virizion, and Tornadus? It’s simply inconceivable considering what it brings to the table. Whimsicott is an Encore Prankster, making it a threat that no Dark type would dare to mess with due to its powerful Moonblast STAB. Though it's frail, Whimsicott is a fast pivot, with enough speed to be faster than +1 Scrafty and has numerous key resistances making up for its lack of bulk. It's versatile enough to run Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers, or Pixie Plate to enhance its STAB moves, hell, even Choice Specs for a surprisingly strong hit or to lure its main counter with Switcheroo(e.g., Slowbro-Galar). Furthermore, it can frustrate opponents with a bulky Leech Seed and Substitute set. Overall, Whimsicott provides significantly more utility than almost anything in B (B+ somewhat included) tier and can arguably outclass some Pokémon in A- as well.

First of all thank you for your great quality reply and i apologize for the late response, have been really busy and i wanted to write a reply to the better of my ability now that i am a little bit more free.

I think there are some good points that definitely change my mind on rotom heat from your post, while there are others that i disagree with. I'll do my best to reply to each point you have made in response to my nomination.

1. "actually quite the opposite, II believe that Fire is an exceptional defensive typing, especially in the current meta. As long as you manage hazards and/or avoid having HDB removed. It resists 8 types and is immune to both ground, burn and paralysis. It's huge. Being weak to water and rock specially right now is not that big deal given their scarcity." - I do not believe that fire type is a great typing right now mostly for the reason you have provided on your second sentence regarding ability to keep boots on the mon. Knock off is a very good progress maker in PU and its also a very common move, making the task much more difficult. Also, fire typing alone only offers resistances to some relevant typings such as fairy (mainly from florges) and fire itself which multiple of the fire types in the tier, if not all, have access to a secondary stab move that can hit for strong neutral damage.
I do believe rotom itself has a great defensive profile, however, if you do need the resistances it offers, they can be obtained through other mediums that have access to reliable recovery and are not affected as much by boots being knocked off. Also, while scarce pokemon wise, water is a strong offensive typing in PU that will likely be present in a majority of the games, making it very relevant.

2. "Initially I shared this idea, but upon using it extensively I started to actually find it's speed quite great. it's faster than things it doesn't want to take hits and slower than most things it wants to take hits before pivoting out. Those 3 you mentioned are good examples to be faster, and i would cite the likes of max speed arcanine, delphox, staraptor, scyther, electrode-h and flamigo as cases it's good to be slower." - I agree with some of these points. Rotom Heat is able to come in on quite a few slower mons and shift momentum in favor of the rotom heat user, with the biggest cases of its success being Florges (a very relevant mon) and Bronzong. However i do not believe it has such an amazing MU vs slower mons as one might initially think. Here are a few examples.
Bellibolt: Acess to toxic, muddy water and simply pivoting out with volt switch.
Slowbro Galar: Acess to toxic, Surf (with calm mind surf being able to beat rotom heat pre tera if rotom is switching into slowbro), and chance of poison from sludge bomb or SSA.
Mudsdale: While not as common, this mon does run stone edge on ocassion (mainly for altaria and rotom heat itself), however i will agree that outside of this it would have the ability to come in reliably.

Regarding the faster mons you have mentioned:
Arcanine: Depends on the interaction, Curse Arcanine can very well appreciate rotom being a faster pivot to regain enough HP to deal with the incoming mon, as the most common set, if it gets enough curses it can potentially sweep if given the chance.
Delphox: Yes, it can take a psyshock and pivot out, so i agree that it can exchange some HP in order to regain momentum.
Florges: Absolutely agree with this, Rotom heat is one of my favorite florges check, however i do not believe that rotom heat is the only fire type that can offer this role, but it does so in a uniquely enough way to warrant some merit.

3. "I think this part outlines it's prowess rather than underlying it. Surf Gastrodon altho seeing more usage by now is still one of the easiest to deal with. If it doesn't have Surf, Gastrodon becomes easy setup fodder otherwise shouldn't be hard to get around. This damage done with surf can also come against the opp in future as a cycle of setup > pain split > attack is enough to deal with a lot of threats and in this case it's low HP/decent speed is an advantage"- After giving it some thought, i think the traditional Surf, ice beam / S bomb, spikes, recover set can be easy to deal with and tera Steel Plot can further abuse any gastro set for setup. I think, in a vaccum, this interaction will be favorable for the Rotom H user, however, it could likely require some mind games between clicking volt switch / overheat in order to catch a double off guard. The only mon i could see doubling into rotom heat during this situation that is able to scare it off would be tauros aqua (threatening a ko from high HP while also being faster), which is not really paired so often with gastrodon anyways (not considering other choiced mons for the sake of argument as most of them dont take +2 overheat too well). There might be other interactions i am missing but after further consideration i believe the gastrodon interaction can be beneficial for the rotom heat user when facing the traditional set.

Final Thoughts:

I believe i have slightly underrated this mon during testing given that, at the time, i would prefer to slot other fire/electric types while avoiding same type stacking and preferred other options such as bellibolt for pivoting, delphox for nasty plotting in front of florges, and covering the resistances that rotom heat offers with one slot with other mons along multiple slots. I believe this mons warrants more experimentation, however i do not believe it to be A+ for the reasons stated throughout my reply.

 

[Bella]

Quick post to talk about Zard, few other low tiers mons, and in response to mistermath s post

Charizard's nomination up was based on Sun, but as it was already ranked on the VR it will be kept on for voting. VR Council members might however re-evaluate their vote based on the Drought ban.

I don't think Charizard needs to go to UR. While yes, Sun ban does completely ruin alot of its niche, I think there's some times you can justify niche Belly Drum sets from time to time and even the occasional DD set. Obviously i think alot of this is gimmicky and falls under pure hypothetical, but I've seen enough replays of people pulling off batshit insane wins with Zard that I think it still well deserves its C tier.

Next, some few Pokemon I think that probably will need to go down / up a bit by the next vr council vote that I just kind of forgot to mention in my last post

C+ -> B-
I think Webs aren't that bad rn, especially when you consider the abusers you have at hand ie BU trailblazeless Bulls, Band Migo, Delphox, Skunk, etc as well as the very shaky forms of hazard control in the tier. Obviously 4MSS still plagues it but i don't think Vika (and by extension Webs as a whole) is a C tier strat. A slight raise is more than justified.

B- -> B
I've ran Mesprit in the past in a pretty fun, albeit somewhat flawed Future Sight Spam and I still really really like it. Obviously the fact that our Ghosts are super super bonkers rn is not doing it favors but once you realize you can run Colbur / Kasib berry or just no Item at all you find a surprisingly decent utility Pokemon with a crazy deep utility movepool and not bad options on the attacking side either. Obviously I still think its tougher to justify than over other entry hazard setters and utility pivots ie Gligar or something like that since they normally have better typing and less of a 4MSS, but I still feel like Mesprit is not the worst Pokemon ever and is much better than everything in B- bar like, hlugg and kingdra.

B -> C / UR
I feel like this a Pokemon that has seen 0 usage at all as of late and its for good reason. Simply put: everything it does, another Pokemon will do better. NP Trick Room? Delphox does not require an extra turn of setup and is more powerful while Galarian Slowbro does not do the exact same thing (Since it runs CM) yet it makes up for it with a much better defensive typing, regen, and Slack Off as reliable recovery. Double Dance? Terrible set but even then other doubledancers like Bronzong do that role better and more consistently. Wish? Florges is in the tier and is the third best Pokemon and runs Wishpassing sets extremely effectively while having a better defensive typing and better Special Bulk, while Scream Tail is also a great wishpasser. My point is that Farigiraf is just completely overwhelmed and outclassed and needs to drop to C tier or UR asap.

C -> UR
Smeargle is super super ass and makes you play a 5v6. Aside from the fact that HO is in a struggling position right now in my opinion, this mon is playing a 5v6. You are much better off running Lycan, Lass, Hlugg, or Vika as a HO lead who don't suffer the issues smeargle has of it doing absolutely nothing and just inviting stuff to come in freely after setting up a spike or just dying before that. Sure, Burning Bulwark, Stone Axe, and Mortal Spin are cool, but 1) Smeargle is the single most obvious example of 4MSS in Pokemon and can never fit all of those at once and 2) You are assuming it will have a chance to do anything after a Stone Axe which lol. Drop this thing.

Now, onto Gligar. Personally, I do really think Gligar needs to go down, and ill explain why more here.

I don't agree with two of the presented arguments for this nomination. Yes, it suffers from having to pick between toxic/koff/u-turn, but that's because it's the only ground type in the tier to have any of those options to begin with, which is an absolutely gigantic advantage.

I think having Tox / Knock Off / U-turn is valuable for Gligar, but the problem I find is that atm, those 3 traits are found throughout alot of Pokemon. For example, the 2 best mons in the tier (Galarbro and Belli) both have toxic while alot of other great Pokemon like Salazzle, Skunk, and even Goodra can effectively make cases to run it. Knock is found everywhere, from Skunk and Zoro to Aslash and Wo-Chien. Even then, I don't feel like the other Ground-types need Knock to thrive as they are just naturally blessed with other options. I don't think i need to list off how many things get U-turn, although i'll admit thats a great advantage the other Ground-types wish they had.

It means that it's less vulnerable to setup, it's more capable of making progress, and instead of being a momentum sink, it's a momentum generator. While it obviously doesn't want to lose Eviolite, the only other ground that takes knock off well is mudsdale, since gastrodon is typically not a physical wall and Palossand is ghost-type.

First off, 2 of the other ground-types has options to beat setup and agruably do the job better than Gligar does with Toxic. Obviously Mudsdale with Roar, but Gastro runs Clear Smog quite a bit which really can deter setup sweepers lacking sub (alot of them). (Palo obviously does not have a way to prevent setup, but Scorching Sands kinda prevents Physical Attackers? Not really but its something.)

The momentum generator part is fair, but I don't think any of the other grounds are that much of momentum sinks? Obviously Mudsdale has naturally high Atk and Roar to keep pressure up, but Gastro can get tempo with Spikes that puts alot of pressure on the team and Palo is the most momentum-sinky of the three but even then not alot of things really want to try to go up against it over fear of Scorching Sand / Sludge status chances.

Gastrodon can take a Knock off fine enough in a pinch especially the non Sticky Hold sets, plus Psydef is not that uncommon. Although yeah, Palo is a Ghost-type, you deter alot of the Knockers with the fear of scorching sand burn and honestly if you are running palo you probably should be Colbur or No Item so you can check Golurk better. For some calc examples of how good no item / colbur Palo can do against some common knockers:

252+ Atk Bombirdier Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 134-162 (35.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Skuntank Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 116-138 (31 - 36.8%) -- 65.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 140-166 (37.4 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zoroark Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 126-150 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

While some of these mons have some counterplay to Palo such as Taunt, the fact that Palo can still comfortably take a Knock should not be disregarded.

And yes, I do mean other; Gligar itself is a plenty fine koff absorber, since eviolite acts like a mini-colbur berry in the sense that it cuts into koff's damage, unlike the lefties that the other grounds run.

Ok so technically Gligar is a Knock Off Absorber, but you can only switch into a Knock once, and by doing so you lose so, so much defensive utility by doing this. A good example of this is that against SD Deci Tera Ghost Spirit Shackle you go from getting 2HKOd to OHKOd after Rocks chip or Knock chip.

+2 252+ Atk Spell Tag Tera Ghost Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Gligar: 292-344 (87.4 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Spell Tag Tera Ghost Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 194-230 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Another example? A +1 Paldean Tauros-F Flare Blitz goes from a 3HKO to a Clean 2HKO from full.

+1 252 Atk Tauros-Paldea-Blaze Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 127-150 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Tauros-Paldea-Blaze Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Gligar: 190-225 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

My point is I don't see why you would want to willingly get Gligar Knocked if you need a Knock Absorber on the spot that badly when you probably take like 20% from the knock and then take 20-30% more against every move after making it a much much much worse wall.

All in all, Gligar still needs to go down a peg. Idt its bad and I have found teams where its better than Muds / Gastro / Palo, but the weaknesses are really glaring and does not really make it A tier worthy imo.

Jesus i made this post way longer than I thought it was going to be

 

[UberSkitty]

Gonna throw some noms in the ring.
A- -> A
wtf is reliably switching into this thing? Draco Meteor destroys most stuff and it can just pull out it's coverage for the Fairy/Steel mons. Even has Power Whip for Gastrodon! (trust)
B+ -> A-
Fairly versatile set options, but the most notable is Trailblaze+SD alongside Guts or Moxie which can spiral outta control quickly.
B -> B+
B- ->B+
I'd usually say B rank is fine for these lead mons, but with how big offense is atm they've become more relevant.
UR -> B-
It's already been nommed for the C ranks, and alone is a meh mon, but it's a staple in Psychic Terrain, which is busted af atm with all those Expanding Force and Unburden mons. Also Healing Wish is nice.
UR -> C
While it's ability sucks considering it's vast utility movepool, I've found success in offensive sets as a spinner and Spikes setter. Also tanks special attacks even without investment.

Finally, I'd like to defend some of the C rank mons nommed for UR.

I like to view it as Gastrodon with less utility but isn't a total momentum drain. Does have some variety too, between its abilities' immunities, two pivot move options, and moves to spread status. Here's a replay with my preferred set Restalk:
Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com)

Nah fam, it's still solid wallbreaker with Analytic.

While questionable compared to similar mons like Sandslash-A and Bronzong, its better defensive typing+ability than the former and access to Spikes unlike the ladder gives it a definite niche on some teams.

I think the sample team it's in has had enough success to justify staying ranked. Also the movepool has endless meme potential like Population Bomb.

 

[Aurist]

Hi everybody, we have our (slightly late) updated VR following the first round of nominations!

The votes can be found here.

The results are as follows:

RISES

Florges A+ -> S

Golurk A -> A+
Scrafty A -> A+

Bombirdier A- -> A
Decidueye A- -> A
Scream Tail A- -> A

Ambipom B+ -> A-
Coalossal B+ -> A-

Avalugg-Hisui B- -> B
Lycanroc B- -> B
Whimsicott B- -> B

Hoopa C+ -> B

Naclstack UR -> B
Indeedee-F UR -> C+
Passimian UR -> C
Veluza UR -> C

DROPS

Delphox A+ -> A

Bronzong A -> A-
Gligar A -> A-
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze A -> A-

Altaria A- -> B+
Emboar A- -> B+
Grimmsnarl A- -> B+
Scyther A- -> B+
Articuno-Galar A- -> B

Electrode-Hisui B+ -> B

Hitmonlee B -> C+
Abomasnow B -> C

Alcremie C+ -> C

Drifblim C -> UR
Floatzel C -> UR
Lanturn C -> UR
Orthworm C -> UR

Thanks to Meri Berry who helped implement some improvements to the VR sheet

 

[Perla]

Coalossal B+ -> A-

The effect of a Jellicent-less meta...