Resource SV PU Viability Rankings (Post-DLC1)

[Aurist]

art by IoSonoNeon">IoSonoNeon​

S Rank
S
Porygon-2
Skuntank

A Rank
A+
Arboliva
Eelektross
Floatzel
Muk
Palossand
Passimian
Sneasel-Hisui


A
Braviary
Cramorant
Clawitzer
Farigiraf
Lurantis
Orthworm
Rotom
Poliwrath
Pyroar
Morpeko
Sneasel
Spiritomb

A-
Articuno
Avalugg-Hisui
Bombirdier
Froslass
Raichu-Alola
Rhydon
Swanna
Veluza
Weezing

B Rank
B+
Appletun
Charizard
Combusken
Crabominable
Cryogonal
Haunter
Houndstone
Perrserker
Persian-Alola
Raichu
Rotom-Frost
Samurott
Tauros
Tauros-Paldea-Combat
Naclstack
Whiscash

B
Banette
Basculin
Cacturne
Dachsbun
Dugtrio-Alola
Glaceon
Medicham
Probopass
Trevenant
Victreebel

B-
Dugtrio
Gurdurr
Indeedee-F
Klawf
Ludicolo
Mabosstiff
Masquerain
Sableye


C Rank
C
Ditto
Electrode
Gabite
Golduck
Golem
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Leafeon
Misdreavus
Rabsca
Scovillain
Thwackey
Ursaring
--

All ranks are currently in alphabetical order. You can find the votes that the VR council submitted below.

PU VR Vote history

VR mini Slate Dec 2023: 1/2
VR Slate Nov/Dec 2023
VR Slate Nov 2023
Early VR Slate Oct 2023

Our current VR council is made up of the following members:

VR Council members

asa
Aurist
DugZa
fish anemometer
gum
ishtar
Morge
plznostep
sensei axew
Vulpix03
zS

 

[Aurist]

The VR has now added the New Pokemon from the Nov shifts and we are looking to update the ranks for the Nov meta - thread is now open for comments and nominations!

EDIT: Noms are now back to our standard S A+/A/A- B+/B/B- C tier lettered formats!

 

[Perla]

My personal experience concerning the new mons:

Top (strong and splashable)
,

Limbo #1


High (strong, not always splashable)
, , , , ,

Limbo #2
, ,

Mid
, (sticky web is fine)

Limbo #3

(it's a ground type)

Low


Abstain
(unsure about the criteria for rain)

 

[gum]

to make sure everyone's on the same page and so that nominations focus on the same thing, we'll be going back to the letters format. that means that we'd appreciate discussion about pokémon you think sit from s-rank to somewhere in the a-ranks more than other ranks, and you can expect a full update sometime next weekend :)

some of my own noms:

new -> s
passimian is a fantastic scarfer and very scary breaker. its movepool allows it pressure most of the tier very effectively, and even resists don't appreciate taking a close combat from that attack. it constantly feels like it dictates the rythm of games, and can clean up without that much difficulty. knock off makes it especially good at this, as it means it can pressure answers like weezing way easier. it doesn't really matchup badly into anything right now, and i think it's pretty clearly a top 3 pokemon

new -> a+
i feel like most people underrate indeedee pretty severely, or at least i haven't see much discussion surrounding it. most of our darks are not very bulky, and are a predict or two away from folding. it just matches up well vs a lot of our defensive cores, as most of our spdef walls don't do a solid job against it (articuno, chansey, and muk) now that probopass isn't anywhere as common. can run multiple sets well too, which makes it an interesting option on a lot of teams

new -> a
sun sets are very scary and can win a lot, but honestly i don't think that set is good enough to warrant a rank in a by itself. offensive strength sap is a great breaker that also offers a fair amount of defensive utility vs stuff like orthworm and houndstone, giving it a lot of chances to get into the field in this meta and click buttons. more defensive sets are also great, forgoing the damage output to kinda work like a frailer and more annoying weezing with better recovery. knock's pretty cool too

top -> a-
for sure still a good pokemon, but i'd say it took a hit with these recent metagame shifts. it's less scary as its speed tier pre-aura wheel / rapid spin exposes it to a ton of faster threats like sneasels, swanna, and scarf passimian, which are all very common. at the same time, it also doesn't hit hard enough vs slower pokemon like arboliva which is a pretty bad combination of traits to have as a frail breaker / cleaner. rapid spin is still very good and is now slightly more valuable with sandslash leaving and it can be fairly scary late-game, but it's no longer the knock aura wheel pshot bot it was last month

 

[waterfals]

New mons ranking
S:
S-:
A+:
A:
A-:
B+:
B-:
C:
UR:

Other Notable Shifts
Top -> S-: (still top)
Top -> A: (top -> high)
High -> S-: (high -> top)
High -> B+: (high -> mid)

• I've used all the new things above B+ in my personal ranking, I might be under-valuing the things in B+, but I also haven't seen other people using or much outside of weather, I think struggles atm so I feel a little more confident with that B+ rating
• I might have way too low but I haven't seen much of it yet so I'm just ranking it on what I've seen outside of sun.
• I think is slightly better than , but I could definitely be wrong
• is my favorite mon so I put it in B-, I think it has a niche of being able to come in on Articuno and force progress to some degree with rocks/lava plume
• // likely are the best they'll ever be, with more and more drops coming in I can't see any of these 3 ever going above mid tier again, Rotom maybe has a shot based on having a great typing, but access tera kind of waters down the niche of having elec/ice stab and its speed tier is just not very good for what it wants to do
• genuinely feels like one of the most solid spdef walls to me with eviolite. I hope this mon gets more opportunities to show off how good it is.
• is still good, but it isn't as ubiquitous as it was last month with the addition of Orthworm as well as Muk, I do think Weezing has recieved some excellent options to pair it with though in Arboliva and Orthworm
• I think both and are very good atm, psychic spam feels very useable atm with there being two real solid answers in Ursaring and Arboliva(skuntank also is probably okay), and Bombirdier can just do so many things that it makes a solid place for itself in the tier essentially just being a much better klawf trading bulk for speed + utility + tri-stab
• is really good but still overrated when people say it's ban-worthy imo, it's a solid (maybe the best) scarfer and even its bulk up/band sets are good, but I do think Pauros, Medicham, and Bombirdier are not that far behind, and with the exception of Medicham they can also fill other roles well. Anyway I don't think this thing is bannable rn
• is S- by virtue of being by far and away the best option for a spinner while still actually being a very good mon.
• got better with these shifts as it is the #1 answer to arboliva atm with its spdef set. It also has more targets for wish passing as well as future sight.
• I think is very good, but also not bannable. It sometimes feels unfair, but you already know exactly what it's doing at preview and there are enough things that check it that if you don't bring some way of dealing with it then it's kind of your own fault.
• is the ruler of the tier. It just outputs insane amounts of damage while still being able to take multiple hits from pretty much anything. Tera just exacerbates this problem letting arbo beat things like charizard and articuno, as well as giving it the chance to heal back to full after getting off extra specs boosted giga drains when it really shouldn't. Overall I think this is definitely the number 1 or 2 threat in builder with vivillon also being an issue, but imo vivillon is a lot more manageable with things like scarf basculin not having to worry about it at all.
• Last but not least, is also still very good, I put it at the top of S- on reputation alone though. I feel like I haven't seen zard be that menacing lately, but looking at builder its pressure can't be understated. There is basically nothing that can wall zard before tera, with muk and chansey being your best options. I think physical zard is not very good, but it does have the option of running that as well and therefore invalidating muk as a check as well. Overall I still think this is a very good mon, and deserving of A+/S-

 

[Morge]

Yay now I can give my terrible opinions!!! Mostly gonna be focusing on new drops/super notable mons shifting.
-> UR
These aren't real mons. Arbok is outclassed by the million other poisons in the tier, monferno is outclassed by the million other fighting types in the tier, indeedee-F is pretty much just worse than indeedee-m and quaxwell is just bad. I don't see any real reason to use any of these mons.

-> S
In my opinion these are the 2 best mons in the tier at the moment. Cuno is mildly bothered by all the electrics in the tier but still serves as an answer to basically every other special attacker in the tier and an amazing defensive pivot, while passimian is the best scarfer and offensive pivot in the tier, with knock + U-Turn letting it make progress in basically every matchup and just generally hitting extremely hard with CC even with basically every team having at least one if not multiple fighting resists. Just generally extremely splashable mons that are pretty much always good.

-> S-
Morpeko is still extremely good although its flaws are a little more apparent now. Its still our best hazard removal on most teams and can be extremely threatening late game with aura wheel, but its often not hitting as hard as you would like, and its outsped by quite a lot of scary threats unboosted, both of which are pretty big deals for a mon this frail. I still think morpeko is really good though and it still feels like a tier defining mon to me, just maybe not quite as good as it was before. Oh yeah and zard is still nuts, not a whole lot switches into it safely without tera.

-> A+
Just generally really good mons, bombirdier pretty much does it all and is probably our best rocker, rotom is a super annoying pivot with our limited grounds and a pretty good scarfer, indeedee is a mon I haven't seen a whole lot of funnily enough but its really annoying to switch into without if you don't have a good dark, and muk is just a generally good defensive poison and a pretty potent curse sweeper. Arbolivia is a bit overrated I think, specs hits super hard and defensive sets can be really annoying to break through but specs sets are super easy to revenge kill with how slow it is and it can feel like a tera sink at times because grass/normal is not a very good defensive typing, still a menace though. Weezing has definitely taken a fall since last month with generally more competition and its lack of recovery and general vunerability to being worn down being even more apparent, but its still super good and forms a pretty solid defensive pair with a lot of new mons, and being our physically bulkiest fighting resist is pretty great in this tier.

-> A
Good mons. Vivillon is still an extremely annoying sweeper but we have enough fat special walls that for now it feels manageable if you play around the sleep right. Orthworm is just a good phys wall, the fighting weakness is unfortunate and its special bulk blows but its physdef is huge, dual hazards are nice, and coil sets feel pretty good at making it not too passive. Also ground immunity is always appreciated even if we don't have a whole lot of good ground types at the moment and lets it pair well with a lot of mons like muk that a steel type normally wouldn't pair as well with.

-> A-
Pretty good mons but less generally splashable than others here I think. Ursaring I was initially pretty down on but my opinion on it has gone up, flame orb and bulk up sets kinda suck but restalk 2 attacks or even just 4 attacks sets make for pretty good tanks. Victreebel is a pretty cool wallbreaker with a nice defensive profile but its still kinda frail and struggles with the bulky poisons, especially muk who you can't even knock, also scary on sun but sun is still a fake playstyle sadly. Sneasel-H has an amazing speed tier and a pretty good defensive typing but fighting/poison isn't a great stab combo and it doesn't really have the coverage to back it up. Sneasel shares the same amazing speed tier but with a worse defensive typing and weaker stab moves but a better offensive typing and knock, and priority which is cool. Clawitzer generally competes for its role with arboliva where it does fine enough I think, trading bulk for a better speed tier and U-Turn, but it can often struggle to find opertunities to come in and actually break stuff.

-> B+
Ludicolo is pretty good on rain and rain is still very strong but its pretty much just limited to rain teams, although self setting sets seem kinda cute I guess.
Edit: uhh, with damp rock banned full rain teams don't really work anymore and ludicolo is more like a B- or even C rank mon

-> B-
Golems eh, its a ground type which is good and the physical bulk is very nice but its not an amazing typing in most situations and its really slow and specially frail. Just kinda meh.

-> C
Golem-A is a kinda cute wallbeaker. Its not great, basically all the same problems with regular golem apply without the advantage of being a ground type but galvanize body slams hit very hard and it can always explode to at the very least significantly dent something. Leavanny is pretty terrible, but webs is an alright playstyle and leavanny does have some advantages over masq as a web setter with its better speed tier and knock.

 

[plznostep]

Time for some noms from the NO.1 FLITTLE FANATIC!

to S tier
Passimian is the definition of centralizing, it fits incredibly well on a lot of archetypes and VoltTurn cores with other top Pokemon like Rotom due to how effective it is as a scarfer thanks to it's access to U-turn and other coverage moves such as Knock Off and Earthquake. Then lategame Passimian is quite good at cleaning once the Fighting-type answers have been dealt with. Bulk Up is also an option even if it is inferior to it's other sets, but either way, Passimian is the king at the moment and I think it deserves S tier. You can't go wrong with this Pokemon.

to S tier
Rotom is similar to Passimian where it fits very well on VoltTurn archetypes and is also quite effective at cleaning and breaking too, with Trick + Nasty Plot on Scarf being particularly effective in my experiences. Other options on Scarf work as well such as Will O Wisp and also Sub + Nasty Plot or Sub + Hex work outside of Scarf while Specs can also be effective, giving Rotom quite some flexabiltiy on what you could be facing. Rotom also arguably has more defensive utility then Passimian thanks to it's typing and ability with Levitate, allowing Rotom to check Fighting-types like Sneasel-Hisui and helps it's matchup versus Ground-types like Whiscash while it also synergizes quite well with Terastallization typings like Steel. I think out of the two, Rotom ends up worse still since Arboliva being around can give it some trouble since its basically forced to never click Shadow Ball ever again, but it can pivot out thankfully and bring in it's partner to break.

to A+ tier
Victreebel is one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Manual Sun is a very scary playstyle and Victreebel stands out as one of the best abusers thanks to its wonderful coverage and good offensive typing which also gives Victreebel quite a lot of defensive utility, and in comes Victreebel's defensive sets which I believe are so underrated at the moment. It is the glue that keeps team together against most physical threats such as Passimian, Poliwrath, and Morpeko and it's utility movepool in Knock Off and recovery in Strength Sap are the icing on the cake for an absolutely incredibly Pokemon that I believe should definitely be seeing more use.

to A- Tier
Vivillon is a one trick pony in Quiver Dance + Compound Eyes Sleep Powder, but it can do that one trick fairly well. In rankings however, this doesn't help Vivillon as it's not really that useful defensively on archetypes such as Balance due to its poor typing which means it's mainly a HO Pokemon. Still, Vivillon can do okay since it does find entry on Fighting- and Grass-type moves from Pokemon like Passimian and Arboliva. Even with this semi low ranking, I do feel quite conflicted on this Pokemon in general but I do think it's good to let Vivillon stay for a while since in theory there are some decent ways you can try dealing with Vivillon that I can see emerging.

to B+/A- tier
I think Veluza is quite underrated at the moment. The new meta has made some changes that Veluza likes, mainly Passimian being a top tier Pokemon means that Veluza can find some setup opportunities on moves like Close Combat, meaning just its existence makes Passimian weary to click the move. Orthworm is also set up fodder, since it cannot hit Veluza for any meaningful damage. Tera Fairy also helps Veluza set up fairly well since there are plenty of mons that want to lock into Dark-type moves such as Knock Off which Veluza can use at set up to sweep. Once Veluza has setup, it's a monster to stop with it outspeeding a vast majority of Scarfers and hitting quite hard since Water- and Psychic-type coverage hits quite a few mons for neutral damage. Veluza is quite restricted, being a HO Pokemon, but that does not mean it's any less effective on the archetype.

to A tier
Sneasel is quite good at the moment. Firing off STAB Knock Off's is an amazing way to make progress while also just being a very strong move for Sneasel to use and additionally Sneasel has some nice options outside of that with Ice Shard to hit setup sweepers like Vivillon very hard and if you hate Orthworm, Low Kick can be used to hit these problematic Steel-types and completely changes the matchup between it. Swords Dance as a boosting move is of course amazing and when combined with Ice Shard, even some Scarfers have to be careful when trying to revenge kill it. The only reason its not higher is a lack of defensive utility and its not very flexable outside of these Swords Dance sets, with the only other set really being Banded which is not as effective in my opinion.

to A- tier
Sneasel-Hisui is a very scary Pokemon once Fighting-type answers have been dealt with. It's bulk with Eviolite is actually quite respectable, especially one the special side making it tough to revenge from Scarfers like Rotom. Having access to Swords Dance and two high base power STAB moves in Close Combat and Gunk Shot makes Sneasel-Hisui hit incredibly hard and options like Trailblaze eliminates the option of revenging Sneasel-Hisui entirely while Lash Out can be used to hit Ghost-types that may want to try walling Sneasel-Hisui. Sneasel-Hisui's fatal flaw however is it's inability to break past some common Fighting-type answers, although having access to Switcheroo can mean Choice sets can try and cripple it's checks that way.

to B+ tier
Lastly, i would like to talk about Golem. While Golem can struggle to deal with Electric-types due to its low SpDef, it can answer some other scary Pokemon in the tier, like Muk and Morpeko for instance which gives Golem some merit as well, and even just for being a Ground-type to block Choice Locked Electrics as well since our options in the field is very limited and Golem is one of the few Pokemon that can work. Custap Berry lead is also a fine set which adds to its versatility. I think it's just not amazing at answering most Electric-types despite it's typing and it's weakness to a few common typings mean I can't justify putting it any higher.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Golem-A is a kinda cute wallbeaker. Its not great, basically all the same problems with regular golem apply without the advantage of being a ground type but galvanize body slams hit very hard and it can always explode to at the very least significantly dent something.

+1, Fully agree. Golem-A's a cute wallbreaker but if a ground type exists it's struggling. Golem stuffs it, Whiscash stuffs it, anything with tera ground stuffs it for free, but if you aren't packing an immunity/your immunity dies Golem gets switchin opportunities against most phys attackers and threatens the OHKO/can just set up rocks at its worst. I think the trapper set is awful, though, and doesn't play to any of Golem-A's strengths. C rank really shows that Golem-A is technically viable but you need a damn good reason to use it instead of anything actually consistent.

...slightly biased, sorry.

new -> a+
i feel like most people underrate indeedee pretty severely, or at least i haven't see much discussion surrounding it. most of our darks are not very bulky, and are a predict or two away from folding. it just matches up well vs a lot of our defensive cores, as most of our spdef walls don't do a solid job against it (articuno, chansey, and muk) now that probopass isn't anywhere as common. can run multiple sets well too, which makes it an interesting option on a lot of teams

I wouldn't go as far as A+ but this thing is mad good. Great breaker + Healing Wish is always good, esp for shit like Sneasel-H or Passimian to get them healthy and/or remove statuses. I think it's not perfect into the Ghost/Darks (even if you slot in Dazzling), and Farigiraf being super strong means there's a good and fairly common Psychic resist that isn't afraid of Hyper Voice.


other than that uhhh

-> A
This thing is FIRE. Wide set variety, free tertiary STAB, immune to the Pranksters' Twave/Will-o/Taunt/Encore, Parting Shot or U-Turn are both excellent pivoting tools and it gets memento????? I don't think I've seen a single game where Bombirdier didn't manage to do SOMETHING important. I've seen Scarf, AV, Sash suicide lead, it just does almost everything. It's sustain long-game is kinda mid, but the bird doesn't need to stick around the whole game, just long enough to snag a kill or two.

-> Somewhere below Bombirdier but not that low
Heat Wave's the only real thing I care about here. You trade the versatility of Bombirdier for late game cleanup potential and the ability to blow through Houndstone (Fluffy) and Orthworm (Steel type) with Heat Wave. I don't think it's great, but I think it's pretty nice to clean up vs Weather teams and stall turns with Sucker Punch. NP sets might honestly be better than physical or mixed just to avoid worrying about burns and delete stuff like Avalugg-H.

-> B
I don't see it? Like, it's a pretty cool IronPress user or hazard lead, but it's also SUPER weak to weather teams because of Weather Ball Victreebel/Tera Fire Leafeon/Charizard for Sun and Golduck/Ludicolo/Charizard on Rain, and I feel like it's very reliant on Wish support to reliably answer what it's meant to. Bombirdier would be slowed down by it, but Knock removes Orth's only passive healing. Passimian fucks it up. Anyone who can status it probably wins.

-> B?
These two are demons that deserve to burn in hell, they're some of the most consistent weather setters in my experience and also have Encore/Twave. I hate them. The drop of Victreebel means their utility is very appreciated, and because they're faster than Sableye, they can still set up before they're Taunted. Lots of utility, zero offense, super teammate reliant but if you want sun/rain they're both incredibly good.

 

[Bella]

Yeah, im writing an essay post again :3
All the new stuff placement!!! Woo!!!!

New -> S / S-
AAAAAA Holy Crap this thing is stupid AAAA
In all honesty i really hope this thing gets suspected in the near future. Its quite literally one of the most comically nuts mons in this tier. While counters exist on paper, they either get slept (Articuno, Chansey, Whatever) or is beated by Tera Ground (Naclstack.) Its basically a fast spore for it. Thats not to add on that imo Flying is a great offensive typing atm as not much is a safe swap into it and most of our resists (like Orthworm or Rotom) are just too frail to take it on reliably. I do not see how people find this mon healthy for the tier at all.

New -> S-
Also nuts, just not as clearly broke as Vivillon imo. It does one thing, and does that one thing well: It is an extremely potent revenge killer and cleaner. My main issue with it is that it can prediction reliant at times and it is extremely obvious what its going to be running (CC, Knock, EQ, U-turn w Scarf Tera Fighting.) It also helps that much more mons such as it cant break though common walls like Weezing, Muk, and Sableye well and alot of common scarfers such as Basculin and Rotom outspeed it. Still, its a great mon and theres no denying its influence on the tier.

New -> S- / A+
An interesting mon, to say the least. Its stat spread is incredible for this tier, and its a very potent Specs user imo. Earth Power coverage is alot more massive than people think and Grassy Terrain has helped me out in a pinch alot with saving me from potential KOs or having Leaf Storm or Giga Drain get the extra boost to KO. I don't think its broken however, since you have to take an attack before you can fire back. Leech Seed harvest sets exist too, although i dont think they are that great.

New -> A
Note to new users of the bird: USE. CHOICE. SCARF. Seriously its great, and 82 Speed is funny as hell when you remember that Paasimian is only base 80 speed, meaning you win the interaction! Having 3 stabs for it is incredible too, Rock Coverage is great for the bird. Heavy Duty Boots Pivot rocks sets arent bad too! Overall, its a great slappable mon on this tier and such a fun mon to use.

New -> A / A-
Just click curse on this thing. Seriously, its a very annoying sweeper if you let it boost too much. Having Knock and a semi-reliable form of recovery and coverage in Drain Punch is great too! Poison is also a stellar defensive type especially for this tier imo. Utility sets with Haze and Toxic and whatever works too, although its not nearly as good as the curse set imo. Great mon nontheless.

New -> A-
Most of what i said in this post about Rotom has remained the same. Does one thing and does that one thing well! Outspeeding Passimian is great and its Ghost typing gives it great switchin opportunities.

New -> A- / B+
Indeedee is a great mon in this tier imo. Choice Scarf is an excellent cleaner and Psychic terrain as always is great for it. I think CM sets have potential, although im not sure really as i have not tested it. Its STAB Combo is also great for this tier too!

New -> B+
Easily our best steel. Having only 2 weaknesses is great and Coil allows it to be a threatening sweeper, as you really only need Iron Tail and Body Press. Also easily the best hazardstacker in this tier imo, and fuctions as a great HO lead too with Steel Beam! Unfortunately, its Special bulk is not that great which is why i could not place it higher. Amazing Pokemon still.

New -> B+
This is one of the more fun mons to use imo. Sun is probably still the best set for it, although SD sets and Sap Special Attacking sets are also very good. 70 Speed tier is kinda whatever, but a Grass that completely beats other grasses is very good imo.

New -> B+
Clawitzer is just clicking buttons with Choice Specs and nuking the tier. If it takes a hit, its a near guarantee your taking like 60% minimum from Water Pulse LOL. That also adds on to its great coverage with Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse / Whatever, and U-Turn allowing for Pivot opportunities is nice. Although, i've kind of found it hard to fit.

New -> B+
Swords Dance is a very very very good Sweeper since it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame aside from Dugtrio which is not common. I enjoy Tera Dark on it alot, allows it to set up on Sableye and boosts up Lash Out. I think Scarf is fine, just has the issue of you can't run SD.

New -> B
Honestly this would be higher if it was not so hard to fit. Anyways RestTalk sets with Body Slam and Shadow Claw are.... fine. Guts Facade Flame Orb Sets are... fine. This mon is just... fine. I don't have much to say. Its just a mon that functions in this tier. Not that good, not that bad. the embodiment of B tier.

New -> B
The fact this is the best Ground-type in this tier proves how dire we need Sandslash again in this tier. Anyways, its a good wall. Sits on stuff like Zard and the like while setting rocks in their face and i think its a stellar Tera user, especially with a Tera type like Grass. 120 Atk is nothing to joke around either, even uninvested its very Potent and you can easily use max HP max Atk. EdgeQuake coverage is always good too!

New -> B-
Its the third wheel of the Poliwrath / Golduck Rain Dynamic. Not much else to say about it, its only good on Rain. Having grass stab is situationally useful and it has good power potential with something like Life Orb. Just ok.

New -> B-
The typing really hurts it imo, although it still has its nice perks. STAB Knock will always be amazing and Ice and Dark is a great offensive typing. My main issue is that unlike its Husian Cousin Sneasel H does not have much Defensive use for its typing and it is forced to run Boots often whereas Sneasel H can run Evo 99% of the time on SD sets allowing it to set up easier. I think this has potential though, people just have to use it right.

New -> B-
Galvanize is cute! Body Slam Galvanize and Explosion is very scary as PrincessGardevoir has taught me. Having Volt Switch and Rocks is also very very cool! Just dont like its defensive typing for it tbh, also feels kind of awkward to use if that makes sense? I can see people voting this higher up the VR though.

New -> B- / C
Feels pretty bad with Knock Off everywhere now. Being our only Magic Bouncer is still neat and it has some neat tricks still with Nuzzle and Healing wish and a surprisingly deep coverage movepool. It def can work but much like Sneasel J, it is only viable on very very specfic teamstructures.

New -> C / UR
Im so mad this thing sucks. Theres gen like... 0 reason to use this over Masq as a webs setter aside from higher speed which BARELY matters and also Knock Off, which is neat i guess. Maybe SD sets could work given enough support for it? Not high on this mon at all though and the only drops mon i would truely consider terrible.

So, this post is getting far far farrrrr too long atm, so Part 2 with all the stuff that needs to be changed in the current VR (imo) will be out... whenever i feel like it

 

[DripLegend]

only commenting on mons i've been using atm, might make second post/update with more mons later

-> S
still think this mon is insane lmao, specs is hard to switch into and arbo has great stabs that hit most of the tier besides steels (even they get nuked by leaf storm or earth power if it's not orthworm). has options to either use defensive tera to sit in on usual counters and kill most, or bolster one of its already strong STAB types and start nuking even harder. voltturn being great rn lets this mon get in multiple times a game and puts itself in positions to get kills easily.
-> S
also another disgustingly good mon that dropped that facilitates so much in terms of voltturn. CB and scarf are both great and fulfill their roles really well on most team archetypes. tera fire + tera blast nukes hound and gives wisp immunity, speed tier is crowded for it but doesnt usually mind it as much as i think other mons in its tier do. always makes progress when it's in, either spamming one of knock CC tera blast u-turn.
-> A (maybe a little higher but solid at A)
this mon feels great to use and is really benefitting from the common grounds leaving us. speed tier is great and all of the sets it used to run got better as a result of the drops/shifts. speed tier largely uncontested, especially with scarf.
Mid -> A-/A
this mon's been really stepping up with more prominent physical threats popping up and blanket checks them all really well. annoys a bunch of teams with night shade/wisp and makes it awkward to pivot into sometimes as well. cb is a great mixup and poltergeist nukes a ton of teams, especially punishing special attackers that think they can switch into the bulky variant for free.
-> A/A+
no grounds are here and volt turn is great, this runs scarf rly well and is able to pivot and chip random stuff. tera electric still does way more than u think it would from regular ass rotom lmao. just really bad into darks but it can cripple tomb with tricking scarf and if you're running a different set then maybe wisp others on switchin. imo scarf is the best set since next to no grounds being in the tier just lets it run wild and the speed tier is good but a lot of electric weaks like zard and swanna are naturally faster so it helps facilitate that more.
-> B/B+
psychic is an amazing typing but indeedee wants scarf so bad it's insane. coverage is also pretty average and since ghosts and darks are usually everywhere it really can't lock into its own stab options as much as it wants to. it feels bad running other sets besides scarf since hitting 317 is super awkward and even then you don't outspeed scarfers we see a lot of or have been seeing previously like pauros, swanna, or peko just to name a few. probably fine for psyterrain HO with healing wish but it's rly bad usually even tho psychic is great offensively.

 

[UberSkitty]

My turn, new mons have been posted about enough, so I'm gonna give some input on where I think the already ranked mons should go.

-> S
Despite already being here, zard has proven to be a huge threat in the meta, with its multiple sets making it virtually impossible to wall with one mon. While I don't think it's unstoppable to the point that it should be banned, I can see why it's being looked into.
-> S-
Adding S- back was brought up, and I think it makes sense, even if it feels like we just removed it. While most of the S- candidates are new, I don't consider cuno tippy-top-tier yet it's such a great option on many teams, hence S-. This is notably thanks to Haze letting it stop so many prominent setup mons like Vivillon and Farigiraf.
-> A+
Has a handful of great sets, including defensive options like WishPass and offensive options like OTR and Double Dance. Can be really hard to stop once it gets going.
-> A+
I told yall this mon was amazing from the beginning. Yall just didn't listen.
-> A+
While slightly overhyped at first with all its new moves, it still a great mon.
-> A+/A
While a lotta people would prob rank this A+, I just think it has fallen off a little since it first dropped, so I'm leaning towards A. Muk being here isn't helping either, even if they run very different sets.
-> A
Can do a bunch of different stuff, like set up Aurora Veil and pivot out, disturb weather with Scarf, or set up with SD.
-> A
Just your regular annoying af wall, notably with Apple Acid making it very hard to wall in return. Not to mention its offensive sets like Specs and Eject Pack+Draco Meteor.
-> A
I saw this mon in the survey as something potentially being looked into, and I don't really see it. Still great mon tho.
-> A
Very similar to cuno with Haze and recovery and stuff. While not as good, it's a great option to replace cuno with when you finish a team and realize it lacks hazard removal.
-> A
All the dark mons and Farigiraf running around really sucks for it, but it's still a great physical wall that can stop stuff like Medicham and Poliwrath in their tracks, forcing them and a lotta other mons to run Tera Dark.
-> A/A-
I'm leaning towards A-, since despite medi being just suspected, it's another mon that's really fallen off recently, especially with Passimian being the better Scarf/Band mon thanks to U-turn.
-> A/A-
Still a great utility mon and outspeeds base 110s and even Scarf aboma, tho feels kinda abusable at times. Also a little bit of 4mss between Knock Off, Foul Play, Parting Shot, Taunt, and T-Wave.
-> A/A-
Does Pyroar stuff. Be fast, hit hard, and Taunt/WoW stuff you're not KOing. Not too common anymore tho, which is why I'd also consider A-.

-> A/A-
Didn't expect this mon to hold up in this meta, but V-Switch is so nice rn and it's STAB combo is near-unresisted.
-> A/A-
While amazing as always on paper, all these Ghost mons+not being able to hold HDB really pulls it down.
-> A/A-
Still great, but another fighting scarfer I'd rather use Passimian over. BU is still cool tho.
-> A-
By all means great/annoying af to face, it's just so hard to fit on a team. It could prob be A, but I've barely seen it recently, which really impacts its relevance.
-> A-
With Sandslash gone, it has regained its usefulness as a glue mon with SR+Spikes and voltblocking.
-> B+
Kinda forgotten with all these newer water mons and poli running around to wall it, basc is still by all means a hard af-hitting mon, and is probably the best Aqua Jet user out of the bunch.
-> B+
Honestly borderline A-, while this mon isn't too common, it can easily stop so many special attackers and makes a great defensive core with some of the best walls like Weezing and Sableye. Also that juicy utility movepool...
-> B+
I didn't care much for this mon at first, saw it as just a worse Swanna, albeit bulkier, with a more restricted movepool. While Cramorant is a decent wall/Defogger, what really puts it this high is Gulp Missile, which is just such a pain to play around.

-> B+/B
Pretty much just this high thanks to zard, and other stuff like Pyroar and Braviary. Tho it's also really nice to have an alternate option for SR+Spikes, and, while not as relevant, is an option for a TR/weather setter.
-> B+/B
Vivillon returning really sucks for it. Still its natural bulk+Intimidate gives it a niche as a QD user and is our best Webs setter (not you, Leavanny).
-> B
People have been dissing this mon but it's still by all means usable. One Moxie boost and things can quickly get out of control. It's also notably good against rain teams.
-> B-
Cute mon with a bunch of utility options+Levitate means it doesn't have to hold HDB.
-> B-
Nobody has been using this mon, so I wouldn't be surprised if council just sticks it in C or UR, but I swear it's a great option! On top of the obvious Magic Guard niche, it also has such a great utility movepool and decent bulk with Eviolite. Also other Fairy mons like Dachsbun and Tinkatuff have really fallen off, lessening its competition.
-> B-
Good sun sweeper.
-> C
Left out of the recent VR, Static+Dragon Tail gives it enough of a niche to justify ranking imo.
-> C
Another way to deal with all those setup mons.
-> C
Once titans, they have really fallen off and we have much better options now. Will inevitably drop to UR eventually, but might as well stick in C for now to "ease the fall".
-> C
Our only sand setter. Tho Sandslash leaving has admittedly left a large dent in sand, at least we still have Houndstone and the Duggys.
-> C
Borderline UR, but I think Electric Terrain still has enough viability to keep it ranked.
-> C
Even with competition with Arbo as a Grassy Terrain setter, I think stuff like U-turn and Grassy Glide makes Thwackey still usable.

UR:
Just some mons previously ranked that I think shouldn't be anymore.

All those hazards are nice on paper, but nobody's actually gonna use the mon.

Indeedee-Male is just so much better, bar some niche stuff like TR setting.

I love monke, but it sucks.

Muk. ig it has some advantages like higher physical bulk, but even then there's Weezing.

The time has come.

Unsure:
Haven't seen these mons enough in this meta to be too sure/don't have much to say about them, but this is what I ranked them before the shifts:
A-:
B+:
B:
B-:
C:

Rain:
Making this its own section since I think Rain being so good overall has a large impact on its setters/sweepers, who I'd say would go lower otherwise.
-> B+
Offensively underwhelming these days, but a prime option for a rain setter+sweeper.
-> A-/B+
ik it's one of the new mons that I said I wouldn't talk about, but it's just one of the best options as a rain sweeper.
-> A+/A
I think we can all agree Belly Drum poli is what's really making rain cross the line into broken right now. While I'd say ban in most cases, poli has so many solid non-rain-related sets that idt it's fair to lose just cuz of this one.
-> B+/B
Mostly outclassed by its alolan counterpart, reg Raichu is better in rain since VSwitch mons are such a threat and voltblockers can be hard to fit otherwise.
-> B+
It's just one of the best weather setters, with Prankster Rain Dance+U-turn. Not to mention the solid bulk+Roost+a bunch of utility options like T-Wave and Encore to further help the sweepers.

 

[asa]

This is my personal VR, and since the plan is to vote on these Pokemon soon anyway, I figured to post it here and discuss some of my placements in detail. Not going to cover everything, but I will talk about the new mons and some other things that interest me. If you do want to know more about why a particular Pokemon is ranked where it is, though, feel free to lmk.

Before I start, I don't really think we need an S- rank rn. To me, there's a pretty noticeable gap between S and A+ rn, and the extreme centralization that feels necessary to justify adding S- isn't there like it was in earlier metas. That's just my perspective, though, and I can see an argument for any of Arboliva, Muk, or Articuno being enough of a cut above the rest of A+ to warrant adding a new tier.

S

Passimian and Rotom are probably the two best Pokemon in the tier right now. They're incredibly easy to use, incredibly consistent, and deceptively versatile while lacking significant drawbacks and having a big impact on every game they're in. Both of these Pokemon are primarily responsible for how good VoltTurn is right now, too, which few other Pokemon in the tier can claim. I think Rotom is slightly better overall, if only because Ground-types generally aren't doing so hot whereas Fighting checks are mostly fine, but both it and Passimian are still elite.

A+ through A-

Choice Specs sets are ridiculous and can easily punch through non-Chansey teams while still managing to trade with a lot of attackers. Arboliva's other sets don't really impress me much, though SubLeech/Sub + 3 attacks can be really disruptive if they catch you off guard. Seed Sower is also huge for supporting both itself and its teammates, which is especially useful for Pokemon like Muk, Orthworm, and Whiscash that lack recovery and even offensive Pokemon like Sneasel-H and Tauros-P. Arboliva's defensive typing is really awkward, which means you have to work to support it on a team, but walling Rotom's STAB combo while also resisting Water and Grass is really good.


Morpeko is still really useful and annoying to play around, especially for some offenses, but it's not a contender for S anymore. There are more Pokemon around to either outspeed and KO it or tank its hits and deal it heavy chip, though it really appreciates the absence of Sandslash + some of our other Grounds being nerfed by Orthworm's presence.


Really annoying special sponge that can either double as a wincon or easily spread chip with Poison Touch Knock Off/Drain Punch, Toxic, or Toxic Spikes. Physically defensive sets probably also work for taking Fighting attacks better, and Grounds almost don't exist right now, which makes you really difficult to take down. My only gripe with Muk is that it can die pretty fast with hazards up if it isn't careful, but you definitely have to build and play with it in mind if you want to avoid losing to it long-term.


Somewhat underrated imo. Swords Dance sets are insanely dangerous and consistent as well as flexible in what they want in the last moveslot, which makes playing around them difficult. Choice Band is pretty good too, especially if you don't run into Weezing, while Choice Scarf is good against almost every offensive Pokemon (including a lot of weather sweepers) and basically feels like you have Deoxys-S on your team. Sneasel-H is only really limited by its middling Attack and only decent bulk tbh, doesn't have many real flaws other than those.


I like Bombirdier. Compressing Stealth Rock, Knock Off, and pivoting in one teamslot is huge and allows it to fit on multiple teams with little difficulty. The typing and decent bulk let these defensive utilty sets sponge hits from Arboliva and Swanna too, which can be useful if you need to wrest momentum back from them but don't have a perfect counter in the back. Lead sets are also good and still offer a lot of useful support thanks to Knock Off, Taunt, and Memento. I don't really dig Choice sets, since they're weak to rocks while also synergizing pretty poorly with a lot of our removers, but they're probably still fine in the right matchup.


Wouldn't count Charizard out yet, it's roared back with a vengeance after slightly falling off multiple times. Flame Charge sets in particular can still be devastating, especially against offense. It also throttles a lot of our better Pokemon, including Passimian, Arboliva, and Orthworm. That said, the introduction of Muk (and even Golem and Ursaring), Tera Dragon Articuno remaining popular, and Chansey and Cramorant becoming more popular all make taking its attacks easier, and new Choice Scarfers like Rotom, Passimian, and Sneasel-H are capable of threatening it out.


Had this in A- before, but OTR sets as well as defensive Wish sets are pushing the limits of what Farigiraf is capable of. It's capable of threatening Muk pre- and post-Tera, and more Ghost-type attacks + Morpeko's slight decline + the presence of Orthworm help it find opportunites to set up and go to work.


Definitely better than I initially thought it would be. Not many of our removers can easily switch into Heavy Slam + Body Press, and Coil sets can be pretty nasty late-game. The Ground immunity in addition to its natural resistances to Grass, Ice, and Normal + massive physical bulk ensure that it will find an opportunity to switch in and play its game. Orthworm's main flaws are being super easy to chip, huge Knock bait, and losing to a lot of our special attackers 1v1. It also can't do much against sturdy setup sweepers like Muk, and it often has to Tera to avoid having its Fighting weakness exploited. Still, it's pretty good overall.


Broken on sun, and has the stats, typing, and movepool to still work even without sun. Muk and Chansey are some of its only consistently bad matchups, but Victreebel can still potentially tech past these whether on sun (Growth + Power Whip) or not (SD, Knock Off, Encore, etc.). Strength Sap is also cute for teams in need of a backup Fighting check, though Passimian prevents you from recklessly spamming the move.


Defensive sets are good against Fighting-types, Muk, and pretty much every other physical attacker, and Fire-types aren't quite as common as they were last month. Offensive sets are still decent, too, and can trade with offensive teams a bit.


A- feels like a fine start for Indeedee-M. Choice Scarf's Speed tier is incredible, outrunning Rotom, Passimian, and +1 Vivillon, and it also lends a lot of useful support to different playstyles. Choice Specs can shred slower teams without even being total deadweight against offense, and it's good at punishing builds that rely too heavily on blanket special tanks like Whiscash and Muk. Not entirely sure how consistent it is, and I wouldn't say it's easy to fit on teams, but it's usually pretty effective.


May be slightly overrating this, but A- seems like a fine start for this too. Having the same Speed as Sneasel-H/Persian-A is always a plus, and so is having a strong, STAB Knock Off. Poliwrath seems to be less common overall, which makes Sneasel's STAB combo harder to play around. The priority also helps against Choice Scarfers and the occasional Electrode. Can't even be slowed down by Intimidate either. However, Sneasel doesn't really switch in on much and can't viably run Eviolite, both of which limit its opportunities to set up and actually do damage. It also sometimes falls barely short of a critical KO before itself dying, which further hurts its consistency.


QD + Tera is annoying, and so is 91% accurate sleep. However, it has pretty bad bulk, often needs more than one boost to secure its sweep, and isn't quite fast enough at +1 to outrun a lot of our better Choice Scarf users. You still do have to be careful against this Pokemon, though, it punishes carelessness in ways most other Pokemon don't/can't.

B+ through B-

Sits on strong ass special attackers all day, which is especially useful now with Arboliva and weather sweepers being so common. Our removal is at a point now where Eviolite is easier to justify and make use of than Heavy-Duty Boots, which only makes Chansey even tankier. Rotom being so good makes non-Shadow Ball feel like a genuine liability at times, but this is still the best Chansey's been in PU so far.


Meh. Clawitzer's strong and not completely garbage defensively like Medicham is, but it's just not very consistent. Only really good vs balance, which still has plenty of tools to play around its attacks, and seriously hates how common offense is rn.


Possibly underrating it a little, but I just think it sucks rn. Unless I really needed defensive removal, I wouldn't run Cryogonal. Not being weak to Electric is useful in the Rotom MU, and Fires are generally less common now, but Articuno just feels so much better and commonly Teras out of those weaknesses anyway.


Definitely underrated. Orthworm does wall you, but you're not guaranteed to run into it, and you still block Volt Switch and tank hits from Muk, Charizard, and Morpeko either way.


Great on full rain, though I think Golduck is better if you want a rain cleaner on HO/BO. Ludicolo's extra weaknesses, lower Defense and Speed, and lack of a boosting move are all pretty wack compared to the duck.


See: Clawitzer. Medicham has it slightly worse due to now having more Fighting-type competition, though it can still pull its weight from time to time.


Cheap, but seriously not bad rn. Fits really well on HO builds and hits good numbers after using Fillet Away.


Might also be underrating this too, but it just seems mid. RestTalk is a decent alternative to specially defensive Muk on some builds, though the prevalence of Knock Off, Fighting-types, Haze, and entry hazards really limits what it tends to do. Flame Orb is cute on Sticky Web and probably also Trick Room, but it's definitely not consistent.


MPull + IronPress seems situationally useful against Orthworm, Probopass, and Perrserker and can probably steamroll some teams with the right Tera type. Galvanize-boosted attacks are also pretty strong, too, if that's your thing.


Cute on hyper offense, but I really wouldn't bother with it anywhere else rn. Can probably outlast setters like Orthworm and Whiscash with some weird RestTalk set, but at that point, just use a remover.


Weather, and sometimes bulky pivot sets to piss Fighting-types off. Illumise also has Tinted Lens if you wanna mess with that, I guess.

C

Leavanny sets webs and has Knock Off + STAB Pounce and Leaf Blade, which is pretty annoying for a lot of our removers to deal with, but that's about it.

The rest of these guys would probably get shoved into a locker.

 

[UberSkitty]

ik I just posted, but I've changed my mind/made a decision on a few mons. Each section is ordered based on that last post. Get ready for another long read!


First, there's the mons I was indecisive about (i.e. A/A-, B+/B):
A+/A -> A+
Was leaning A before since I do believe it's fallen off a little, but being an amazing check for some of the new drops like Passimian, Muk, and Hisuian Sneasel really redeems it.
A/A- -> A-
Yeah...idt anyone is gonna disagree with this. Honestly it's closer to B+ than A at this point.
A/A- -> A-
Yeah, a little too passive, even with Foul Play. Doesn't help that we have two more base 115 mons (the Sneasels), which also dents its niche.
A/A- -> A-
Still does Pyroar stuff, but rn I prefer zard for a fire mon and arboliva for a specs normal mon.
A/A- -> A-
eh, I just haven't seen it much, really impacting its relevance imo. Also Rotom exists as another offensive VSwitch option.
A/A- -> A-
Yeah, being so easily worn down really screws it over.
A/A- -> A
It's def an option over Passimian as a fighting scarf, since that much higher speed lets it outspeed stuff like Scarf Rotom and +1 Viv.
B+/B -> B+
Yeah, being a zard check makes it def worth. And against Sandslash being gone helps, one less SR+Spikes mon to compete with.
B+/B -> B
Viv.
A-/B+ -> A-
Just a really good partner for poli, second best Swift Swim user (sorry Golduck). But like I said before, I would rate lower if not for how good Rain is.
A+/A -> A
Poli's ranking is simply very disputable between all its different sets, so A is a good midpoint.
B+/B -> B+
Again, that electric immunity is now really valuable on Rain, with Sandslash being the old go-to glue. And it has a bunch of set options, between Specs, Scarf, NP, and secondary Rain setter. But again, would rank lower if not for Rain.

charizard:

Next, there's the mons I simply changed my mind about:
A -> A-
While Haze+Rapid Spin makes it p easy to slap onto a team, it can be pretty underwhelming/a momentum drain. I still wouldn't go as far as B+ tho.
B+ -> A-
Nobody is using Chansey, and I think that's why it's considered mid. But every time I run into one of these mf all I can think about is how screwed my special attackers are.
B+ -> B
Switched this with Raichu as an electric mon on Rain. Also Rotom as another option doesn't help.



Had a section in my last post marked "Unsure", but made up my mind on a handful of them:
-> B+
People stopped using this mon, and I can't blame them. There are just better offensive dark mons now.
-> A-
Reg Rotom dropping made me question frostom's viability, but it's proven to still be a huge offensive threat.
-> B+
A cool/bulkier alternative to Sableye, and CroTomb can be a bitch to deal with, but that's assuming you get the chance to set up in the first place. Utility is also a usable option, but at that point I'd just go back to using Sableye (or other utility mons like Alolan Persian and Weezing).
-> B-
Too many fighting mons for this to stand out anymore. And too many fighting checks trying to check all of said fighting mons.
-> B
Still a cool scarfer/whatever, but I prefer Rotom as a ghost scarfer at this point. Also being so frail and outsped by/speed tying with a handful of other scarfers doesn't help.
-> A-
Just a bulky fella for all those fighting mons.
-> B+
While somewhat easily stopped by stuff like poison and flying mons (who resist both Leaf Storm and Superpower), it's still a powerful wallbreaker and bulky switchin for a bunch of stuff. Also there's Contrary to punish Appletun's Apple Acid and Defog. And speaking of Defog, it gets Defog!
-> B
Another mon that benefits from Sandslash leaving, it's now our only mon that can both set up SR and spin. Also that defense...
-> B
While another Rain sweeper, I find it kinda deals with 4mss when choosing its coverage, especially if running NP/Rain Dance/some other utility move like Encore. Could see it's Scarf Cloud Nine set going to B+ on paper, tho I haven't seen/used that in a long time.
-> B+
A great soft check for viv, thanks to it's natural special bulky and immunity to Sleep Powder. Also has all those utility options like U-turn, Knock, Wish, and, ofc, Rapid Spin.
-> B
The Sneasels outspeeding alolan duggy has really given this mon an advantage. Tera Fire is great on it, stopping it from being walled by Orthworm and KOed Sneasel's by Ice Shard.
-> C
Powerful wallbreaker ofc, but nobody uses this mon anymore, just use frostom or obama. This is another mon that will inevitably drop to UR eventually.



And finally, here's some noms I strongly disagree with (I'm looking at you, allstarapology):
-> A-
I could maybe see this falling to A, but Aura Wheel alone makes is really hard to stop offensively once it gets going. And that's not to mention its relative unpredictability/versatility, between sets like Band, Scarf, and utility. Also Sandslash leaving really helps, makes us more desperate for Rapid Spin, not to mention one less defensive ground is always nice (ignoring we got Golem in the process).
-> A-
Honestly, I consider this mon S rank, S- at the lowest. People want this thing suspected. If you don't have an answer, you're screwed, and if you do have an answer, it's put to sleep and used as setup bait. Hurricane+Ground Tera Blast is near unresisted, with some exceptions like Rotom, but even then, once you tera all it can do is WoW (assuming it doesn't have a Sub up) or Shadow Ball ur spdef-boosted mon. And good luck RKing it if ur scarfer is something slower like Passimian or obama. Also Grassy Seed Restalk QD is funni.
-> B+
This mon is still defensively amazing. It can stop top threats like Hisuian Sneasel and Tauros in their tracks, not to mention really helping against weather/TR sweepers, who you aren't about to outspeed or ko with a priority attack. It's also the almost whole reason so many mons run Tera Dark, only further proving its relevance.

Mentioned poli and Raichu above, but I'm just sticking these together to tell you you are drastically underrating Rain.
edit: nvm with Damp Rock gone Rain is really nerfed so I'm not sure where I'd put these mons anymore, but def lower.
-> B-
Speaking of Rain, we all know Voltbeat is the better weather setter thanks to that stronger U-turn (even if nothing else), so idk why you'd choose Illumise over it. Though I did see a Rain team with both Volbeat and Illumise once...
-> C
Now this is the big one I disagree with. idk what to say that I didn't already in the last post, so here's some recent Honchkrow replays:
Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com)
(nvm I only had one saved but look how it slays sun!)


In conclusion, I wonder if I'll change my mind again and make another long post...

 

[Aurist]

Hello, the council has now voted on the latest slate of viability rankings. This is our first move to lettered rankings for these shifts which should hopefully provide more nuance to the ranks. It's worth noting enough VR council members used a C+ ranking that we've created the C+ rank. There are quite a lot of unranks for the tier as the tier adjusts to having a lot of new mons and old mons fall off.

The changes:

NEW -> Rank
Arboliva -> A+
Bombirdier -> A
Clawitzer -> A-
Golem ->B+
Golem-Alola -> C
Hattrem -> C
Indeedee -> A
Leavanny -> C
Ludicolo -> B+
Muk -> A+
Orthworm -> A
Passimian -> S
Rotom -> A+
Sneasel -> A-
Sneasel-Hisui -> A
Ursaring -> B
Victreebel -> A
Vivillon -> B+
Top -> Rank
Articuno -> A+
Morpeko -> A
Swanna -> A+
Weezing -> A
High -> Rank
Abomasnow -> A-
Appletun -> A
Braviary -> A
Charizard -> A+
Cryogonal -> B+
Farigiraf -> A
Mabosstiff -> B-
Medicham -> B
Naclstack -> A-
Perrserker -> B+
Persian-Alola -> A-
Poliwrath -> A
Pyroar -> A
Raichu-Alola -> A
Rotom-Frost -> A-
Sableye -> B
Samurott -> B+
Skuntank -> A
Tauros -> A-
Tauros-Paldea-Combat -> A
Mid -> Rank
Avalugg-Hisui -> B
Basculin -> B+
Cacturne -> B
Chansey -> A
Crabominable -> B
Cramorant -> A-
Dachsbun -> B
Dugtrio-Alola -> B
Electrode -> B
Gabite -> B-
Golduck -> B+
Gurdurr -> B-
Haunter -> B+
Houndstone -> A-
Klawf -> B-
Leafeon -> B
Lurantis -> B+
Masquerain -> B+
Probopass -> B+
Rabsca -> C
Raichu -> B
Scovillain -> B-
Spiritomb -> A-
Swalot -> UR
Thwackey -> C+
Trevenant -> B
Whiscash -> B+
Low -> Rank
Arbok -> UR
Beartic -> UR
Carbink -> B-
Chimecho -> UR
Clefairy -> UR
Ditto -> C
Dugtrio -> B-
Falinks -> UR
Glaceon -> UR
Glimmet -> C
Gogoat -> UR
Honchkrow -> C
Houndoom -> C
Indeedee-F -> UR
Lycanroc-Midnight -> C+
Magcargo -> C
Misdreavus -> C
Monferno -> UR
Noctowl -> UR
Quaxwell -> UR
Sawsbuck -> C
Sliggoo-Hisui -> UR
Tinkatuff -> UR
Veluza -> B-
Volbeat -> B
Wyrdeer -> UR

That's all for this slate. Votes for this slate are here!

Further slates should be smaller in list as things get less volatile, at least before DLC2 drops in January.

Further nominations for rises and drops are now being accepted, but we do not have a specific time set for the next VR vote.

 

[bodi]

Gogoat -> UR

How the mighty have fallen

 

[Epicbubble7]

Maybe I'm too low ladder to get but I don't get how gurdurr is that low?

 

[TheShowdownHoedown]

Maybe I'm too low ladder to get but I don't get how gurdurr is that low?

Its problably due to the fact that Fightings and Fighting checks are a lot more common (Muk shits on it iirc) and there being more removal than in September, I feel like Gurdurr is still fine but this is my reason as to why its low.

 

[Theblobfishman9]

Its problably due to the fact that Fightings and Fighting checks are a lot more common (Muk shits on it iirc) and there being more removal than in September, I feel like Gurdurr is still fine but this is my reason as to why its low.

If you run facade on it you do beat muk in most cases, additionally it isnt as good of a defog mon as cram but the mon is better as a def unit. Even after knock with correct investment it can still wall phy mons, evenmoreso if it is running bulk up. It also can out bulk up mons like poliwrath too which is helpful. It should really be ranked slightly higher imo to like B or B+.

 

[Aurist]

I'd like to make some nominations as the meta is still adapting and was still embroiled in weather stuff when the last slate got made.

Rise noms
A+ -> S

Idk how more people don't see what I see with this thing, I think it's quite easily the best mon in the tier, especially with Choice Specs. Gets big value out of switching in on neutral/resisted moves, allowing it to act as both a blanket temp check and one of if not the best breakers in the tier. Pairs fantastically with the plethora of bulky Poison / Ghost mons that most teams seem to be packing. Just clicks buttons in many games and also loves to Tera for free value (Fairy in particular) but doesn't mandate Teraing to function. Also the hardest Rotom check in the tier as it gets value out of eating Volt Switches. SV PU: The mon to me right now.​

Sneasel-Hisui A -> A+

I already voted for this to be A+ in the last slate and it was only one vote off being placed there. This thing has only taken off even more as many of its notional checks are finding themselves unable to answer it / break its substitutes without packing a lesser used move just for it, we're seeing that with Muk adapting with Zen Headbutts and more Weezings running Haze. This thing has a very pronounced effect on teambuilding and itself is very easy to fit on a team and win with. Kinda broken tbh.​

Veluza B- -> B+

Veluza felt like it was placed quite low due to its effectiveness in the previous meta, however Veluza is feeling more successful than ever in HO builds, notably forming part of a pretty successful sample team. The major increase in use of slower (<110 in this case) scarfers and the fact that balance/fat is getting increasingly passive to deal with a lot of things is making room for Veluza to shine imo.​

Drop noms
I wanna make some batch drops relating to the bans of Damp Rock and Heat Rock as although some of these mons are still valid they've lost a significant presence in the meta and will need to prove themselves in current PU.
Victreebel A -> B+, Leafeon B -> B-/C
Golduck, Ludicolo B+ -> B-
(note, I'm not nominating Poliwrath to drop as I think it was A+ with Damp Rock and is A worthy without, best bulky water in the tier and a great Sub booster. I'm also not nominating Volbeat to drop as it continues to prove useful outside of weather teams as a temp fighting check, para spreader, anti setup mon and slow pivot, and if anything has its moveset freed up by not having to run Rain Dance/Sunny Day)

UR noms
Arbok UR -> C

I have been an Arbok hater for the last couple months, mainly because people have insisted on using crappy Coil/Scale Shot sets which do absolutely nothing. However it's proven pretty decent recently as a niche bulky poison mon that can spread para / badly poison and knock while also being able to check Sneasel-H. Worthy of a spot imo. By the way Intimidate is horrible because you're trying to check Passimian and Lurantis too, so you have to stick with Shed Skin but being a status switch in is not bad for it either. Below is a pretty good set that UberSkitty had come up with and I adjusted slightly, mostly to pack EQ over Rest due to needing to check Sub Sneasel-H.​

defensive Arbok set

Arbok @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dark / Water / Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Glare
- Knock Off
- Poison Fang
- Earthquake

I'd love to see more noms from people, as I know there's a broad thought that the B tiers in particular could be more accurate, and I've heard some complaints that a number of recently URed mons are in fact viable.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

I'd love to see more noms from people, as I know there's a broad thought that the B tiers in particular could be more accurate, and I've heard some complaints that a number of recently URed mons are in fact viable.

alrighty!

THE IMPORTANT NOM:
C -> C
I'm not nominating him, I'm just so happy he's here and wanted to say: "Pog." I know he's not good but godDAMN AM I GLAD HE'S DECENT



Rise Noms
A -> A+ or goddamn S idk
This thing continues to just rob games and I have no idea why we're acting like it's fine. Lots of mons are getting better because they specifically have a good matchup in to Sneasel-H, and just Sneasel-H. Well, they're also good at checking a handful of other mons, but their best use case is specifically ONE bastard. Aurist really said everything, it's a mon that picks and chooses which tiny handful of counters to completely invalidate with its fourth move slot and Tera and is only truly stopped once both its 4th move and Tera are revealed. I love abusing it but god do I feel bad when it just wins.

B -> B+ or A-
Been seeing a lot of this fella recently. He's both a nice lead to get the game off, a midgame sash mon to trigger Tangling Hair, or a jumpscare Swords Dance sweeper. He accomplishes a lot in one team slot, such as forcing Sneasel to get -1 speed, Memento to get in Veluza or Simian, and having a fantastic offensive STAB combo Orthworm notwithstanding, that he deserves a big bump up. Shoutout to the lunatic running Sand Force Dug with Hippopotas and OHKOing my entire team.

C -> B or B+
I'm completely biased here on Honch, and admitted to it on the PU room last night, but Honch is an excellent sidegrade to Bombirdier. Mixed or fully special sets take advantage of a really good STAB combination plus the ability to freely delete Will-o spam and Heat Wave as a way to completely destroy Orth/safely take out Arboliva without recoil on mixed sets. I've mostly stuck with Mixed for Sucker, but NP does great into a bunch of common switchins like Avalugg-H or the Rocks. You're trading Rock coverage and SR for much higher power, Heat Wave, and Moxie. If Bird is A, then Honch isn't far behind.


Drop Noms

Victreebel A -> B+, Leafeon B -> B-/C
Golduck, Ludicolo B+ -> B-

+1ing this, I've only seen one Ludicolo recently and at least it can somewhat function without 8 turns of rain. I also want to add that probably should drop more too; I don't think that being a Grass with a better mu into Orth and Arboliva is enough to justify that pathetic speed stat and lack of any coverage.

B+ -> C+ or more realistically C
He sucks. Horrific stats and an unimpressive movepool don't give him much besides saying that he is one of the small handful of Grounds in the tier, but if you're desperate for that, Dug-A and Dug are fantastic leads and can pivot in once or twice vs. Scarf Rotom, and Golem is an even better suicide lead with alright matchups into phys attackers. Every mon in A+ and up outside of Charizard just mops the floor with it, even Rotom, which can Trick or Will-o to completely neuter it.

C -> UR
Let's be real, neither of these have ever seen the light of day and they're only getting worse as mons that do what they can, but better, show up. Leavanny might be fine at C since you could maybe argue its case as a Webs setter with Knock, and 92 speed is much better once Viv is out of the picture, but still. Everyone else in C can act like they're doing something, Mag sets SR and is a funny shell smasher, Rabsca can revive and set TR, Ditto is the counterpick to end all counterpicks, and Houndoom is kinda mid but Fire/Dark is pretty good coverage that I praise on Honchkrow, but its a stretch to say either of these 2 eke out anything.



rapid fire round bc i dont have much to say
If I could nominate for a S-, this is the one mon in there. Absurdly consistent, best scarfer in the tier, will-o and trick give you to ways to delete fat squads.
UR -> C+ or B-, Was kinda surprised it's not ranked anywhere. NP sets are solid. Good matchups in high tiers right now and really bullies Whiscash. Isn't OHKOd often if at all, but being locked into Boots usually is pain.
B -> B+, Banger mon with a lot of solid mus, tera makes it not terrible and I've seen a few Loaded Dice Avaluggs that just delete stuff under TR or late game. Some suicide leads with Custap are also popular since Mountain Gale OHKOs way too many mons and its awful spdef means anything will knock it into range Losing to most special attackers keeps it out of A.
B- -> B+ or A-, super solid mon that almost always gets a good situation to shine, and often forces defensive teras. Memento, Screens, and fewer Sabs floating around give it lots of freedom.
B -> B-/C, objectively mid, super weak to Knock ruining its longevity, pure Normal is better done by Komala or the hybrid type mons
B -> B-/C, stuck living in the shadow of a brother with more firepower who OHKOs Sneasel-H and scarfless Passimian.

 

[Aurist]

Couple responses to some things I agree/disagree with!

I also want to add that probably should drop more too; I don't think that being a Grass with a better mu into Orth and Arboliva is enough to justify that pathetic speed stat and lack of any coverage.

IMO this thing's niche is what it was before Damp Rock/Heat Rock teams took over the meta for a while - as a solo sun sweeper. 75 is a nice tier for a Chlorophyll mon and it hits quite hard, allowing it to act somewhat as anti-offense and still having some degree of breaking power. B- is a decent slot for it currently I feel.

B+ -> C+ or more realistically C
He sucks. Horrific stats and an unimpressive movepool don't give him much besides saying that he is one of the small handful of Grounds in the tier, but if you're desperate for that, Dug-A and Dug are fantastic leads and can pivot in once or twice vs. Scarf Rotom, and Golem is an even better suicide lead with alright matchups into phys attackers. Every mon in A+ and up outside of Charizard just mops the floor with it, even Rotom, which can Trick or Will-o to completely neuter it.

I really can't agree with this, Whiscash doesn't have as many bad matchups as that in the higher tiers. For one Muk doesn't come in on it and Cash can beat it out with EQs before it's pulled off Curses (btw I kinda prefer physical Cash atm). Rotom's only out vs Whiscash is to Trick it and there's significant opportunity cost to that and even after that it can't really threaten Cash much. Swanna can hurt it with Knock but Cash threatens Swanna itself with Stone Edge so Swanna isn't exactly free, it has to pivot around it. Cash is also a good temp check to Sneasel-H right now which is very important in this tier.

C -> UR

Agree with Leavanny who never really had use to begin with, but Sawsbuck I feel is actually quite good in the tier right now, particularly with a Sub hax set. Things that want to come in on a Headbutt often really don't want to take a Thunder Wave or a Horn Leech and 95 speed is a pretty solid place to be at. Para spam is really good right now IMO and Sawsbuck is only one of a couple offensive mons that can pull it off.

B -> B+, Banger mon with a lot of solid mus, tera makes it not terrible and I've seen a few Loaded Dice Avaluggs that just delete stuff under TR or late game. Some suicide leads with Custap are also popular since Mountain Gale OHKOs way too many mons and its awful spdef means anything will knock it into range Losing to most special attackers keeps it out of A.

This mon has been popular lately and I had already supported a rise to B+ in my previous slate vote, my feelings remain the same. I think it might be the best spinner for less offensive teams (Morpeko being the best overall), It's not super easy to spin block as it hurts and trying to kill it often leads to predictable plays.

B -> B-/C, stuck living in the shadow of a brother with more firepower who OHKOs Sneasel-H and scarfless Passimian.

I quite strongly disagree with this, Raichu-A's psychic stab makes it more broadly applicable and rightfully in a higher tier, but Raichu's place as the only Volt immune (Dugs are sorta fake volt immune) that can fit on offensive builds gives it a strong niche still. Under many circumstances it functions about the same as its partner, and its function apart from it is more niche, but I personally end up using it more thanks to Lightning Rod providing solid outs for offensive voltturn teams. Definitely still a mid B tier mon to me.

 

[Morge]

This VR is pretty good but there are definitely some mons that stand out to me as being horribly misplaced

A -> A-
Pauros feels pretty fraudulent at the moment, the classic BU + trailblaze wincon set feels pretty bad, its fighting stab has pretty bad coverage with basically every team packing at least one often more fighting checks, and since 2 of your moveslots are being used for setup you only get to fit one coverage move which always leaves Pauros super wanting for coverage, regardless of what you pick you're always gonna be missing something crucial and no matter what you pick you can't really do anything to the ghosts. Scarf and band sets are pretty solid with the speed tier but face stiff competition from passimian because no knock turn. Competition also doesn't help pauros, passimian is the overall better breaker and sneasel-h is the overall better wincon and pauros often just ends up feeling like lesser versions of those 2. Still solid, the speed tier gives it a real niche over passimian but I just feel like its harder to justify running this at the moment.

A+ -> S
If any mon deserves to stand alongside passimian in S at the moment it should be its partner in crime rotom. Passimian + rotom volturn teams define the tier at the moment, with rotom being extremely hard to stop pivoting due to the lack of grounds and wisp and trickscarf making it even harder to play around. Just extremely flexible and good at everything it does.

B+ -> B/B-
Having masq in the same tier as viv feels super weird (viv also probably deserves a rise but I'm not gonna bother with that while theres a suspect ongoing) but even beyond that masq really doesn't feel all that impressive to me. It struggles with all the same fat special walls that viv struggles with (cuno, chansey, muk ect) but without the option to brute force them with sleep so its just kinda hard shut down. If the opposing team has a cuno masq just feels like dead weight. Even if it doesn't have to deal with those mons its still not super impressive as a sweeper, it speedties scarf passimian and is outran by every other scarfer which is not a good position to be in as a sweeper. even in the event that viv gets banned masq is just not that good as a quiver dancer. Its also the best webs setter which is a fine playstyle but not really enough to have it ranked so high.

C -> UR
Glimmet sucks. Its only niche is as a HO lead but its just so massively outclassed at this role by bomberdier/avalugg-hisui hell even golem. Toxic spikes aren't great with so many poisons running around and while spikes are cute it really doesn't feel like it can consistently get them up alongside rocks.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

I'll concede on those points Aurist, I'm nowhere near good enough to actually have my opinions carry any weight lmao, I just use Golem every game because he's funny.

Agreed on Rai, forgot he has Lightningrod since it been literal years since I cared about base Raichu, and given that nothing else is actually a volt immune mon its fine. Never seen it but that's enough justification for me.

still disagree with Whis as the #1 whiscash denier, especially if you're arguing that its mu into Sneasel is good.

and I didn't even know anyone was using Saws at all, since I've never seen it.

 

[Theblobfishman9]

Nomination Time

Falling
A -> B
The lack of heatrock in the tier really hurts bel, additionally I find it can be a bit challenging to slot on a team. It still def usable but I find it hard to justify running over some of the better grasses or poison types like arbo, muk, and weezing.

A+ -> A-
I think there are way to many rotoms levitating around the tier for an A+ to be justified on this mon. Even if you tera ground on it, you have still wasted your tera and you dont even KO rotom in return(252+ SpA Swanna Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom: 153-181 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO/252 Atk Swanna Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 200-236 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). At that point its easier to justify bombi which does KO with the knock.

A -> A-
Weezing is good, but at the same time it gets shut down with taunt and or can be setup-ed on by sub mons. Also having to justify running weezing instead of muk unless you wanted to double up on poison types hurts it.

Rising
A-> A
I know I just argued that swanna's matchup against the rotoms holds it back, but in this case cram is also the best hazard remover in the tier and worth burning a tera on it for some of the more hazard weak teams. Plus gulp missile can 100 percent win you games and is one of the best abilities in the tier.

UR -> B-
I'm aware that my fans offensive sets are indeed not as good as the other two forms in the tier. But bulkier np sets are the way to go and it has good matchups against some of the best mons in the tier such as pass, arbo, braviary, sneasel-h, cram, viv, and with sub np sets it can set up right on nacl, orth and weezing. Chansey kinda beats all non tera ghost sets and its everywhere on ladder so I wont argue for now that it should be higher, but it should at least be ranked.

 

[plznostep]

Rises

A to A+
Get this mon up to A+. Sneasel-Hisui has shown the tier that it is an immense threat that every team needs an answer for, less you get overwhelmed. It has solid defensive stats thanks to Eviolite which makes revenging it with Pokemon like Rotom harder (if you even can because if its running Trailblaze, then you can't even outspeed it in the first place after a boost) and nice resistances in Fighting notably for Fighting-types like Passimian, while also resisting Grass which can be nice for Arboliva. It has quite the diversity in its sets, such as Substitute, Trailblaze, Lash Out sets which can dictate the mons that answer Sneasel-Hisui, such as Trailblaze ruining Whiscash, Substitute dealing with status, and Lash Out dealing palpable damage to Ghost-types and Tera Ghost Pokemon. Choice sets are also fine enough with Switcheroo being a great way of crippling defensive walls. This is without mentioning that Sneasel-Hisui is incredibly fast, making it pretty good at dealing with opposing offense. In summary, it's hard to not justify using Sneasel-Hisui on most Hyper Offense teams, especially when paired with other common Hyper Offensive picks like Veluza (another Pokemon i'll be mentioning), and has a strong argument to be put on Balance teams as well over Passimian.

B+ to A-
While Whiscash seems like an underwhelming Pokemon (and you're not wrong), it's Ground-typing is so important in dealing with many VoltTurn strategies due to it's Electric immunity and decent matchup into Electric-types, unlike Golem, and ability to set up hazards like Stealth Rock and Spikes which is important in whittling down these sort of playstyles by punishing switches. Furthermore, Whiscash has some pretty decent matchups with top tiers, notably the aforementioned Electric-types, but it does decently into Muk and Charizard as well. All these traits makes Whiscash deserving of A- over B+ in my humble opinion, as having a positive matchup into VoltTurn is just that valuable.

B- to B+
I want to echo the thoughts i've seen here of Veluza rising. Veluza finds many opportunities to set up on Choice-locked Fighting- and Water-types, such as Basculin and Passimian. It also finds setup opportunities on defensive walls such as Orthworm and Terastallization can also give it setup opportunities. It only needs one turn to become incredibly threatening to a team, outspeeding basically all relevant scarfers and it hits quite hard as well, with a nasty crit rate to boot. Any competent team needs some kind of answer to Veluza.

Drops
A to B+
It was a lot better when Sun was around, now really its defensive sets are left, which Grass/Poison typing carries but I can't really put it on level with anything in the A tier.

A to A-
Might be wrong, but Appletun kinda just gets rolled over by the meta and whenever I try to use it, i'm very underwhelmed. It has a useful Fire resistance, until you realise the best Fire-type is Charizard. Water resistances are nice at the moment, until you realise Swanna is there, and most Water-types have a way to hit it super hard like Clawitizers Dragon Pulse, and Basculin clicks Flip Turn and all a sudden Passimian comes out and smacks you with a strong U-turn, which is really not nice to be weak to, or they just go into Specially Defensive Orthworm, who can eat up your hits fairly well, or Muk who kinda just destroys you. Grass-type competition is also quite fierce at the moment, with Arboliva being undeniably top tier, who by the way, also has a way to smack Appletun with Dazzling Gleam, so Appletun can't really put that Grass resistance to use most times. So thats my rationale for nomming it lower.

B+ to B/B-
I don't really mind where this drops or really even know but I know it probably needs to, Rain isn't really around anymore so Golduck isn't either.

There we go, just felt like doing a few noms from personal experience :3