Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

[RS25802580]

Man I was really close. I could enjoy this meta, I thought. But I am legitimately out of gas. After falling out of the 1900s, I thought I could bounce back again. If the meta adapts to me I will just adapt back. A few losses are just setbacks. Build new teams and strategies maybe incorperate some of the opponents cores into my style or try unothodox strategies like fairy blast rotom to lure in dragons. I briefly went back only to fall again. Since then I just couldnt climb back. I cant even beat players from the 1500s anymore, it is that bad.

I dunno, maybe I am truly talentless at this game or I am not in the right state of mind. There is no way that a player of 1900s caliber should ever lose to someone below 1600s this much so my run was simply a fluke. It is absolutely insane how fast the meta adapts though.


One thing I wanna say is, I absolutely HATE how many resources a lot of prominent mons require to beat. I am gonna name Kyurem for example since it is one of the mons that is a suspect candidate in many peoples eyes. If specs would be its only set, it would be fine. It's moves can be scouted with bulky walls like Slowking or bulky balloon resists like Gambit and then you go from there. But this thing has various sets that can be outright game ending. DD tera blast sets, DD mixed, DD-sub, Boots 4 attack and there is still more. These sets have different counters and checks. Guessing wrong will net you a dead mon at best and end the game at worst, with the one dead mon also being potentially game changing. Not to mention all these sets can be run on many different teams

Counters and Checks usually have the trait of having favorable typing against mons they check or counter but Kyurem can blow past water types with freeze dry and fire+steels with earth power on top of having high bst, verstality and the ability to end games on the wrong scout. Pair him up with a mon that also exerts huge pressure like Ogerpon, Gambit, Gouging ect... and then good luck. Kyurem is certainly not the only one like that of course.

I also highly dislike Zamas presence, he has many of Kyurem's traits above listed with high bst, a lot of viable set variance(ID-press alone has a lot variations like roar(to stop tera ghost setups), crunch for ghosts, rest, heavy slam for fairies,edge for the birds and more dangerously sub to block status and set up on passive mons. Even the evs you set can be extremely customizable with some running less speed and more def to hit harder on the spot and others investing in spdef bulk which it can tank suprisingly nicely for a "physical" mon.

There is also band and boots attacker set that can catch mons offguard. Like banded crunch can open up Slowking for the likes of valiant and bolt.

And true it wont sweep fatter teams but it can still put pressure on a lot of builds and even punch holes for other teammates. Not to mention it so goddamm fast for how bulky it is, how hard it hits and the potential to end games too. If you don't have bulky ghosts or dragapult on your team you will probably need atleast 2 mons to deal with this mon. Which is I guess is fine for a lot of people and honestly probably nothing special in a way. Who knows, with the rise of Sinistcha maybe things are adapting to it. But Zama will probably adapt back.


Lastly I wanna apologize if it comes across as "doomerpostin". I had to let out some of my negativity and grievances somewhere and it sure as hell shouldn't be towards my opponent so I hope you can forgive me. The points above might just be salt fueled and my own frustration at myself at not being able to adapt when I felt like I could before. I admit, I am a bad player so hopefully I can make peace with that now.

I know people will tell me I can quit the game and play sth else if I don't enjoy it and to be honest,, FAIR. Mons has been the game I love for years but it is not like the only game out there. Cheers.

Thanks for this post. Don’t feel too disheartened about the elo fluctuations. Nobody can consistently sit on high ladder. Even the best players are always rising and falling on their alts.

If you made it to 1900, you can make it again. You’d be surprised how much situational factors affect your gameplay on the day-to-day. State of mind plays a big role. If you’re a little tired or off your game the little mistakes add up. Conversely, when you’re at your peak state you’ll surprise yourself with how many straight wins you can get.

Many times I’ll drop into the 1600s from 1800 when I’m just tired or careless, but inevitably rise back up. A friend of mine who is a much better player consistently oscillates between 1900 and the 1700s when testing teams and new strategies.

 

[littensalt]

adding onto the kyurem discussion, genuine question has kyurem spawned any new techs or sets for mons OTHER than itself to check it?i know AV crown exist and its one of my favs to use but i genuinely think thats it, like i guess you can say AV glowking but im not sure if that ones too viable unless you can get hazards off EVERY time before it comes in, would love to get examples though

 

[pixelpenguin]

Ferrothorn will be at least in the top 5 usage or top 3 at least. Funny enough if Ferro was in this gen it wouldn't lose any moves since knock off, toxic, and leech seed are eggs moves for it. Ferro will never be bad, look at National dex ou in Gen 9, it's top 2 usage which says something. It walls a good chunk of the ou mons that's for sure which gen 9 ou is clear lacking a good wall for both physical and special without Tera which Ferro doesn't really need to abuse it, only if it's a bad match up which Tera Water, Grass, Ghost, Fairy, are good Tera for Ferro . Has the best typing. Only thing Ferro lacks is recover which Game Freak needs to give it Strength Sap and then it will be good. But yeah Ferro is an important Pokemon and Gen 9 ou is seriously lacking something and it's this mon. Garg, Gliscor, and Zaptop cannot fill Ferro shoes

Strength Sap Ferrothorn is kinda horrifying. We don't need to give it reliable recovery too, it already has everything sob

 

[Achohermano]

The usage stats came and I'm surprised the distance between tusk and Kambit is lowering. More people are using tusk as the meta grows it seems. Zama is also now top dog literally lol being number 3. Two OU mons, Weavile and Skarmory, have also now dropped where they would technically be UU and Serp is at an embarrassing 1.8% now. On other news, our boy Moltres is now OU by usage!

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-05/gen9ou-1695.txt

So happy about Moltres' rise. I've been using it since DLC2 dropped out and I think it's a cool and good mon:) it stops non-tera zama, and it's a really good check to most lando, cinderace, meowscarada, weavile, skarm, corv and great tusk set. Also, flame body is busted in general

 

[Alternator]

Most people believe tera is not broken as shown by surveys, but those who think it shouldn't be here are alienated, I still stand by the opinion that a temporary experimental no tera ladder should definitely happen as it would make it feel like those players are at least heard and give players a small brief glimpse at a potential no tera meta.

I think as long as such a thing is a brief temporary ladder, I don't see an issue as long as it only stays up for like a few weeks to a month so it doesn't divide the playerbase for too long. No tera ladder is at least worth running for like a few weeks to a month just to see how a no tera meta would look, because a lot of players just don't know or have no clue what said meta would even look like

I think it is worth trying and maybe running some tournaments within this temporary ladder to really get an idea of what a no tera meta would look like at least.

I mean I do think that it is worth a shot to see what that meta would look like even if it only lasts a short period of time as the nature of temporary ladders often is, and to also acknowledge that tera still is somewhat controversial

Take the lead on organizing a no-terastal tournament, then; a quarter of the player base would like some form of action, they should be a few experienced hosts willing to teach you the ropes.

If the interest is there and a semi-regular tournament can be sustained, you'll get to see what Gen 9 could have been. If not, you'll have confirmed that there isn't enough interest in a no-tera alternate to make a go of it. Either way, that's useful to know.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?

I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.

 

[Heatranator]

Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?

I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.

Just wondering, but what was the role that serp accomplished? Was it simply just a fast attacker or did it fill some defensive role.
The only thing I can think of so far is weavile with tera fighting low kick, but of course if serp had a specific role on this team, it would prob be easier to determine. Weavile can even take one earth power from specs kyurem and with tera fighting low kick, OHKO kyurem.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Just wondering, but what was the role that serp accomplished? Was it simply just a fast attacker or did it fill some defensive role.
The only thing I can think of so far is weavile with tera fighting low kick, but of course if serp had a specific role on this team, it would prob be easier to determine. Weavile can even take one earth power from specs kyurem and with tera fighting low kick, OHKO kyurem.

Serp mainly existed as a lure in for people expecting it to crumble under heavy physical hits; Think Tusk switch ins after Tink's balloon pops, etc. It basically existed to spread status and act as speed control while AV Crown took on any heavy SPA hits. A lot of the time I used Future Sight > Glare on Dark switch ins. Which worked great! until it didn't. Largely because stupid dragon can hit in either direction.

I originally had Pult in Serps place, but after a nasty run in with one too many Dozo's I swapped for Serp and it utterly demolished a lot of stall teams lol.

 

[Roshino]

Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?

I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.

Well, Kyurem usually tera Ices for wallbreaking, right? That being the case, it is VERY vulnerable to steel and Teraing won't help him much. As long as you set SR quickly AV Crown should force him out repeatedly with tachyon cutter. This interaction should deal heavy chip and scout if it's HDB, in which case your team should handle it normally as long as you make sure it can't hit the field easily since your entire team threatens it. It will require a sac or two and it'd crumble vs Tera Ground DD or something psychotic like that but that's why everyone hates Kyurem I guess

 

[Rekka's Backend]

it'd crumble vs Tera Ground DD or something psychotic like that but that's why everyone hates Kyurem I guess

You won't believe what I've run into about three times now that's made me come to the conclusion I need this stupid dragon wiped from the face of the earth.

It sucks cuz I've had a great deal of success against nearly every other existing threat in the meta, but man Kyurem is the one thing I feel like really ruins this team LOL. I assume its from people building it to counter stall or similar but it feels like a 50/50 as to whether I should bring in Crown or similar against it--Either due to it mashing Tera Ground or dragon dancing and immediately ruining my entire day. I played with Tera Fairy on crown for a bit but it didn't have the same bait potential as Tera Fighting for me against a lot of steel types I use it as back up against.

 

[Heatranator]

Serp mainly existed as a lure in for people expecting it to crumble under heavy physical hits; Think Tusk switch ins after Tink's balloon pops, etc. It basically existed to spread status and act as speed control while AV Crown took on any heavy SPA hits. A lot of the time I used Future Sight > Glare on Dark switch ins. Which worked great! until it didn't. Largely because stupid dragon can hit in either direction.

I originally had Pult in Serps place, but after a nasty run in with one too many Dozo's I swapped for Serp and it utterly demolished a lot of stall teams lol.

I don't think there is anything persay that can purely recreate what serp does while countering kyurem. The only other thing I can think of is a bulky cinderace.
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire/Fighting
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Court Change/High Jump Kick/Low Kick
You have the spreading status with will-o-wisp, which is nice, and you can take kyurem's ice moves decently well. Tera fighting helps you as with HJK, you can potentially ohko kyurem from full, while always living any non draco meteor hit (this is assuming its specs, bulky cinder can live any hit from HDB Kyurem from full). Of course, tera fire is better against most things. Low kick does less damage, but has no chance to deal 50% hp recoil. Though of course, court change can be chosen over the two in order to have more hazard control, which wears down specs kyurem easier.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

I don't think there is anything persay that can purely recreate what serp does while countering kyurem. The only other thing I can think of is a bulky cinderace.
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire/Fighting
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Court Change/High Jump Kick/Low Kick
You have the spreading status with will-o-wisp, which is nice, and you can take kyurem's ice moves decently well. Tera fighting helps you as with HJK, you can potentially ohko kyurem from full, while always living any non draco meteor hit (this is assuming its specs, bulky cinder can live any hit from HDB Kyurem from full). Of course, tera fire is better against most things. Low kick does less damage, but has no chance to deal 50% hp recoil. Though of course, court change can be chosen over the two in order to have more hazard control, which wears down specs kyurem easier.

Now that's an interesting one! I'll try it out, thank you. HJK sounds like a very good middle ground for dealing with both set up steels and getting status chip on switch ins.

 

[lucky333]

Thanks for this post. Don’t feel too disheartened about the elo fluctuations. Nobody can consistently sit on high ladder. Even the best players are always rising and falling on their alts.

If you made it to 1900, you can make it again. You’d be surprised how much situational factors affect your gameplay on the day-to-day. State of mind plays a big role. If you’re a little tired or off your game the little mistakes add up. Conversely, when you’re at your peak state you’ll surprise yourself with how many straight wins you can get.

Many times I’ll drop into the 1600s from 1800 when I’m just tired or careless, but inevitably rise back up. A friend of mine who is a much better player consistently oscillates between 1900 and the 1700s when testing teams and new strategies.

Thank you. Yeah I guess that is life. Full of ups and downs. Calmed my nerves a bit and am slowly playing better again. I simply have to refresh my mind every time shit hits the fan I guess and not let gxe or elo decide how good I am.

adding onto the kyurem discussion, genuine question has kyurem spawned any new techs or sets for mons OTHER than itself to check it?i know AV crown exist and its one of my favs to use but i genuinely think thats it, like i guess you can say AV glowking but im not sure if that ones too viable unless you can get hazards off EVERY time before it comes in, would love to get examples though

If we are talking about new answers, I have seen slightly more Scizors who can threaten with BP or get momuentum with u-turn.
AV H-Goodra does quite well into Kyurem, tanking most of its moves including EP while firing back from her good sized special attacks. There is also AV Hatt that can take on Kyurems attack temporarily and spread status or just fire back. Granted those aren't permanent solutions but they give you enough breathing room for you to wiggle with. Kyurem barely has any defensive answers and is mainly checked by offensive pressure though.

 

[Roshino]

Thank you. Yeah I guess that is life. Full of ups and downs. Calmed my nerves a bit and am slowly playing better again. I simply have to refresh my mind every time shit hits the fan I guess and not let gxe or elo decide how good I am.



If we are talking about new answers, I have seen slightly more Scizors who can threaten with BP or get momuentum with u-turn.
AV H-Goodra does quite well into Kyurem, tanking most of its moves including EP while firing back from her good sized special attacks. There is also AV Hatt that can take on Kyurems attack temporarily and spread status or just fire back. Granted those aren't permanent solutions but they give you enough breathing room for you to wiggle with. Kyurem barely has any defensive answers and is mainly checked by offensive pressure though.

I run Scizor and it does well but not on repeated switch-ins unfortunately (like you said - temporary), but it does really well in those situations and CB hits very hard, or you can knock-off for guaranteed progress. Decent stuff, though it still loses to DD Tera Ground because Kyurem is tanky as fuck.

One simply can't outright blank Kyurem, which is why it is so strong against stall. If they are playing correctly, it will only hit the field when it is safe to fire a nuke, and then retreat. It's kinda like RM in that regard - if it hits the field something is probably gonna die or take severe damage. Like you said - offensive pressure is all you can do, if Kyurem does hit the field it's a matter of cutting losses more than outright winning the interaction ig unless you get a nasty predict on its set

 

[RS25802580]

adding onto the kyurem discussion, genuine question has kyurem spawned any new techs or sets for mons OTHER than itself to check it?i know AV crown exist and its one of my favs to use but i genuinely think thats it, like i guess you can say AV glowking but im not sure if that ones too viable unless you can get hazards off EVERY time before it comes in, would love to get examples though

The Smogon-recommended AV Glowking set doesn’t have an optimal spread for the Kyurem matchup. Instead, invest more in special bulk with a Spdef boosting nature and some 120 Spdef EVs. This turns Ice Beam into a 4HKO and Earth Power into a 3HKO.

AV Glowking doesn’t like spikes chip so you need good hazards removal support. Keep in mind that Kyurem doesn’t have a lot of free opportunities to switch in so the strain can be more manageable in practice. You can also leverage your own hazards to chip Kyurem if Specs. So the dynamic goes both ways.

The offensive teams that use Kyurem also carry other special breakers/sweepers like Valiant, Deoxys, or Raging Bolt that can inevitability put a lot of strain on Glowking or any Spdef core. Many games Kyurem softens up Glowking so that Valiant/Bolt can sweep. So it helps to have good partners. Pair Glowking with a Flying type and bulky Steel type. Know when you can trade Glowking for Kyurem and when you have to conserve its health when there are other special threats in the back.

Mixed Kyurem sets are problematic. I think Tera Steel on AV Glowking could be used more to address this.

One other innovation is increased usage of Balloon Gambit and Ghold, which can always safely switch into Kyurem once.

I do think Kyurem puts a lot of strain on bulky teams and I wouldn’t mind seeing it get the boot at some point.

 

[Bold School]

Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?

I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.

One thing that stands out to me is a lack of priority. I don't know if Rillaboom is the answer you are looking for because Kyurem resists Grassy Glide, but you could add priority, passive recovery, and EQ resistance for your Okidogi and steels by replacing Serp for it.

Another thing that stands out to me is your Fire weakness. 4/6 of your mons are weak to Fire with no resists.

As for Kyruem, Av Crown is one of the better checks you could run. Tinkaton is decent, too. But I don't know what you are running it for besides rocks.

 

[BradenBmw]

Another thing that stands out to me is your Fire weakness. 4/6 of your mons are weak to Fire with no resists.

sinistcha isnt weak to fire, still agree tho, this team gets eaten alive by iron moth.

 

[Vaporwavvve]

Thanks for this post. Don’t feel too disheartened about the elo fluctuations. Nobody can consistently sit on high ladder. Even the best players are always rising and falling on their alts.

If you made it to 1900, you can make it again. You’d be surprised how much situational factors affect your gameplay on the day-to-day. State of mind plays a big role. If you’re a little tired or off your game the little mistakes add up. Conversely, when you’re at your peak state you’ll surprise yourself with how many straight wins you can get.

Many times I’ll drop into the 1600s from 1800 when I’m just tired or careless, but inevitably rise back up. A friend of mine who is a much better player consistently oscillates between 1900 and the 1700s when testing teams and new strategies.

Any tips for being stuck in 1300s for months after reaching 1800. This ladder feels equally difficult at all elos for some reason.

 

[Bold School]

sinistcha isnt weak to fire, still agree tho, this team gets eaten alive by iron moth.

That's true. I forgot about Heatproof.

 

[RS25802580]

Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?

I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.

I’m not sure what your Tinkaton set is, but if you haven’t already, I’d recommend trying out Air Balloon with Pickpocket as an ability. As long as Air Balloon isn’t popped you get a very free switchin into Kyurem. Pickpocket synergizes nicely with Air Balloon since once its popped you can steal other mons’ items upon contact.

I would also look into replacing Crown with Psyshock Glowking to deal with Iron Moth.

Any tips for being stuck in 1300s for months after reaching 1800. This ladder feels equally difficult at all elos for some reason.

Whenever you lose a match, I recommend saving your reply and watching it later. The games you lose are more valuable for learning than the games you win. Watch the replay and ask yourself what factors contributed to the loss and what you would have done differently. See if you can identity any pivotal turn(s) with misplays that contributed to the outcome. Or if there are team composition issues that became evident during the match.

Happy to discuss more in DMs with regards to teambuilding too.

 

[Avira]

Rekka's Backend, Iron Crown works best on Bulky Offense structures that can take advantage of the momentum it generates whereas your team is really slow.

I believe having Sinistcha and Guard Dog Okidogi on the same team is also kind of overkill, and it seems you clearly have PTSD from Zamazenta to be running both on the same team.

In Gen 9, it's kind of hard for a team with no priority, phazing, or speed control to succeed. And I do believe your team will prevent you from rising further.

 

[Saadhak]

Não tenho certeza de qual é o seu conjunto Tinkaton, mas se ainda não o fez, recomendo experimentar Air Balloon com Pickpocket como habilidade. Contanto que o Air Balloon não apareça, você terá uma switchin gratuita para Kyurem. O Pickpocket tem uma ótima sinergia com o Air Balloon, já que, uma vez estourado, você pode roubar itens de outros monstros ao entrar em contato.

Eu também consideraria substituir Crown por Psyshock Glowking para lidar com Iron Moth.



Sempre que você perder uma partida, recomendo salvar sua resposta e assistir mais tarde. Os jogos que você perde são mais valiosos para o aprendizado do que os jogos que você ganha. Assista ao replay e pergunte-se quais fatores contribuíram para a perda e o que você teria feito de diferente. Veja se você consegue identificar qualquer curva crucial com erros que contribuíram para o resultado. Ou se há problemas de composição da equipe que ficaram evidentes durante a partida.

Fico feliz em discutir mais nos DMs com relação à formação de equipes também.
[/CITAR]
você conseguiu 1660 pelo menos?

 

[Saadhak]

sinistcha isnt weak to fire, still agree tho, this team gets eaten alive by iron moth.

this is scary

 

[Saadhak]

How difficult would it be to ban tera?

 

[Rekka's Backend]

I’m not sure what your Tinkaton set is, but if you haven’t already, I’d recommend trying out Air Balloon with Pickpocket as an ability. As long as Air Balloon isn’t popped you get a very free switchin into Kyurem. Pickpocket synergizes nicely with Air Balloon since once its popped you can steal other mons’ items upon contact.

I would also look into replacing Crown with Psyshock Glowking to deal with Iron Moth.

For reference my Tink's set is Thunderwave/Knock/Hammer/Rocks. Usually I use it to set rocks against Hatters or Thunderwave Gargs/Ghold's a lot. Largely because I've found a lot of games end in needing to bruteforce against these two at times to open up teams. Glowking isn't a poke I've used a lot, but Psychock is a very interesting option--I'll give it a run and see how it fairs.

One thing that stands out to me is a lack of priority. I don't know if Rillaboom is the answer you are looking for because Kyurem resists Grassy Glide, but you could add priority, passive recovery, and EQ resistance for your Okidogi and steels by replacing Serp for it.

This is a very good good point as well. Okidoki I usually bring out soon as all SPA attackers are out of the picture as It's Def invested so it can almost always tank EQ's after one or two Bulk ups. Committing Tera fighting on rillaboom sounds funny to snipe a Kyurem so I might play with surprise factor.

Since I forgot to include it originally, here's a pokepaste for anyone that was curious: https://pokepast.es/adc00e2f296720c6 I just realized I aksed this question without dropping that due to posting late at night and being partially awake lol. Thanks for the replies thus far, I'll definitely experiment with things.

sinistcha isnt weak to fire, still agree tho, this team gets eaten alive by iron moth.

I've been pretty lucky to have not many Iron Moths on the ladder for some reason, but in hindsight I definitely see the danger involved. Usually i've just relied on Tera Water and Psychic noise into Typhon, but I think I'll have to future proof against fire types a bit harder.