Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

A ton of casual players shifted to playing VGC on showdown rather than OU (or other formats) now that PS has a more official and polished VGC ladder. The implementation of Bo3 and team sheets, which weren’t in place early in the generation, became a big draw connecting the game’s official format to online play on PS. You’d see a big spike that was maintained, and a large part of that is lower ladder/more casual play.

This is fine and even a good thing, imo, as it grows the larger community and makes PS a place for all types of interests. But naturally it’s going to decay away at the other non-Random formats numbers.

There’s also the fact that the overall number of games has no correlation on actual metagame quality or interest. 99% of ladder games are more casual or lower level (hell, you can say 95%, but you get the point) — they have no concept of what is broken or if the tier is balanced, but just prefer to use what they like or find cool on any given day, oftentimes circulating in from media like YT.

Basically the point you’re trying to make isn’t one that is actually proven from the graph at all.
i think that proves at least that we really haven’t fixed the singles meta for gen 9 yet as a lot of people jumped ship for DOU and VGC, I think that is something to keep in mind that there is definitely something wrong with this singles meta if the singles decline indicates anything

But no need to doompost yet, I’m sure we will fix this tier eventually somehow…

But no, all that means is that people have lost interest in singles specifically and want to play doubles, so I think maybe we should consider something to maybe draw players back in for a bit who fell out of love with SV? I don’t know how exactly how you would do that though but there are a lot of potential ways to do that
 
Aw man I miss ferrothorn, im so shocked it never returned, seems like an important pokemon!

How impactful do you think it would be in the meta if it was around?
Ferrothorn will be at least in the top 5 usage or top 3 at least. Funny enough if Ferro was in this gen it wouldn't lose any moves since knock off, toxic, and leech seed are eggs moves for it. Ferro will never be bad, look at National dex ou in Gen 9, it's top 2 usage which says something. It walls a good chunk of the ou mons that's for sure which gen 9 ou is clear lacking a good wall for both physical and special without Tera which Ferro doesn't really need to abuse it, only if it's a bad match up which Tera Water, Grass, Ghost, Fairy, are good Tera for Ferro . Has the best typing. Only thing Ferro lacks is recover which Game Freak needs to give it Strength Sap and then it will be good. But yeah Ferro is an important Pokemon and Gen 9 ou is seriously lacking something and it's this mon. Garg, Gliscor, and Zaptop cannot fill Ferro shoes
 
Aw man I miss ferrothorn, im so shocked it never returned, seems like an important pokemon!

How impactful do you think it would be in the meta if it was around?
“252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 144-169 (40.9 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery”
“0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (105 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 236-278 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO”
“252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 54-64 (15.3 - 18.1%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery”
“0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 314-372 (97.8 - 115.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO”
“+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 146-172 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery”
“0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO”
GAME FREAAAAAK. BRING FERROTHORN TO GEN 9 OU, AND MY LIFE IS YOURSS
IMG_3762.jpeg
 
No, fuck Ferrothorn, I don,t miss him at all. I miss Roserade, Parasect, Dhelmise, Cherrim, Gourgeist, Shiinotic, Maractus and Carnivine, but Ferrothorn for me could burn in hell (Great Britain, also known as Galar).
In retaliation of this post I will now make a Ferrothorn appreciation thread.
 
No, fuck Ferrothorn, I don,t miss him at all. I miss Roserade, Parasect, Dhelmise, Cherrim, Gourgeist, Shiinotic, Maractus and Carnivine, but Ferrothorn for me could burn in hell (Great Britain, also known as Galar).
I am too lazy and tired to do math, but Ferro seems like it would make a decent Kingambit check. Couldn't hurt to have more of those.
 
I am too lazy and tired to do math, but Ferro seems like it would make a decent Kingambit check. Couldn't hurt to have more of those.
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 169-199 (48 - 56.5%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Ferrothorn Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 332-392 (97.3 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Yeah, its pretty great against gambit. Taking two kowtow cleaves is pretty amazing and ohko'ing back in return is something corv wish it could do.
 
i miss her.

Another Mon to be burned in hell. No, I want my Dondozo and other Restalk users to be able to sleep, use Pincurchin or the 167745 Taunt users if you want to prevent that.

I miss the niche low Tier Mons who could have had fun with Tera. Legends and Top Tier Mons from previous gens though? They can stay Dexited, I only have sympathy for Victini and Arctovish, those were the cool OU Mons. Also Zygarde, whether they let 50% one in OU this time or just the 10% dog.
 
Another Mon to be burned in hell. No, I want my Dondozo and other Restalk users to be able to sleep, use Pincurchin or the 167745 Taunt users if you want to prevent that.

I miss the niche low Tier Mons who could have had fun with Tera. Legends and Top Tier Mons from previous gens though? They can stay Dexited, I only have sympathy for Victini and Arctovish, those were the cool OU Mons. Also Zygarde, whether they let 50% one in OU this time or just the 10% dog.

never compare my glorious queen tapu fini to fraudcurchin again.
she is more than that! she is not a cheap quark drive abuser!
 
Man I was really close. I could enjoy this meta, I thought. But I am legitimately out of gas. After falling out of the 1900s, I thought I could bounce back again. If the meta adapts to me I will just adapt back. A few losses are just setbacks. Build new teams and strategies maybe incorperate some of the opponents cores into my style or try unothodox strategies like fairy blast rotom to lure in dragons. I briefly went back only to fall again. Since then I just couldnt climb back. I cant even beat players from the 1500s anymore, it is that bad.

I dunno, maybe I am truly talentless at this game or I am not in the right state of mind. There is no way that a player of 1900s caliber should ever lose to someone below 1600s this much so my run was simply a fluke. It is absolutely insane how fast the meta adapts though.


One thing I wanna say is, I absolutely HATE how many resources a lot of prominent mons require to beat. I am gonna name Kyurem for example since it is one of the mons that is a suspect candidate in many peoples eyes. If specs would be its only set, it would be fine. It's moves can be scouted with bulky walls like Slowking or bulky balloon resists like Gambit and then you go from there. But this thing has various sets that can be outright game ending. DD tera blast sets, DD mixed, DD-sub, Boots 4 attack and there is still more. These sets have different counters and checks. Guessing wrong will net you a dead mon at best and end the game at worst, with the one dead mon also being potentially game changing. Not to mention all these sets can be run on many different teams

Counters and Checks usually have the trait of having favorable typing against mons they check or counter but Kyurem can blow past water types with freeze dry and fire+steels with earth power on top of having high bst, verstality and the ability to end games on the wrong scout. Pair him up with a mon that also exerts huge pressure like Ogerpon, Gambit, Gouging ect... and then good luck. Kyurem is certainly not the only one like that of course.

I also highly dislike Zamas presence, he has many of Kyurem's traits above listed with high bst, a lot of viable set variance(ID-press alone has a lot variations like roar(to stop tera ghost setups), crunch for ghosts, rest, heavy slam for fairies,edge for the birds and more dangerously sub to block status and set up on passive mons. Even the evs you set can be extremely customizable with some running less speed and more def to hit harder on the spot and others investing in spdef bulk which it can tank suprisingly nicely for a "physical" mon.

There is also band and boots attacker set that can catch mons offguard. Like banded crunch can open up Slowking for the likes of valiant and bolt.

And true it wont sweep fatter teams but it can still put pressure on a lot of builds and even punch holes for other teammates. Not to mention it so goddamm fast for how bulky it is, how hard it hits and the potential to end games too. If you don't have bulky ghosts or dragapult on your team you will probably need atleast 2 mons to deal with this mon. Which is I guess is fine for a lot of people and honestly probably nothing special in a way. Who knows, with the rise of Sinistcha maybe things are adapting to it. But Zama will probably adapt back.


Lastly I wanna apologize if it comes across as "doomerpostin". I had to let out some of my negativity and grievances somewhere and it sure as hell shouldn't be towards my opponent so I hope you can forgive me. The points above might just be salt fueled and my own frustration at myself at not being able to adapt when I felt like I could before. I admit, I am a bad player so hopefully I can make peace with that now.

I know people will tell me I can quit the game and play sth else if I don't enjoy it and to be honest,, FAIR. Mons has been the game I love for years but it is not like the only game out there. Cheers.
 
Man I was really close. I could enjoy this meta, I thought. But I am legitimately out of gas. After falling out of the 1900s, I thought I could bounce back again. If the meta adapts to me I will just adapt back. A few losses are just setbacks. Build new teams and strategies maybe incorperate some of the opponents cores into my style or try unothodox strategies like fairy blast rotom to lure in dragons. I briefly went back only to fall again. Since then I just couldnt climb back. I cant even beat players from the 1500s anymore, it is that bad.

I dunno, maybe I am truly talentless at this game or I am not in the right state of mind. There is no way that a player of 1900s caliber should ever lose to someone below 1600s this much so my run was simply a fluke. It is absolutely insane how fast the meta adapts though.


One thing I wanna say is, I absolutely HATE how many resources a lot of prominent mons require to beat. I am gonna name Kyurem for example since it is one of the mons that is a suspect candidate in many peoples eyes. If specs would be its only set, it would be fine. It's moves can be scouted with bulky walls like Slowking or bulky balloon resists like Gambit and then you go from there. But this thing has various sets that can be outright game ending. DD tera blast sets, DD mixed, DD-sub, Boots 4 attack and there is still more. These sets have different counters and checks. Guessing wrong will net you a dead mon at best and end the game at worst, with the one dead mon also being potentially game changing. Not to mention all these sets can be run on many different teams

Counters and Checks usually have the trait of having favorable typing against mons they check or counter but Kyurem can blow past water types with freeze dry and fire+steels with earth power on top of having high bst, verstality and the ability to end games on the wrong scout. Pair him up with a mon that also exerts huge pressure like Ogerpon, Gambit, Gouging ect... and then good luck. Kyurem is certainly not the only one like that of course.

I also highly dislike Zamas presence, he has many of Kyurem's traits above listed with high bst, a lot of viable set variance(ID-press alone has a lot variations like roar(to stop tera ghost setups), crunch for ghosts, rest, heavy slam for fairies,edge for the birds and more dangerously sub to block status and set up on passive mons. Even the evs you set can be extremely customizable with some running less speed and more def to hit harder on the spot and others investing in spdef bulk which it can tank suprisingly nicely for a "physical" mon.

There is also band and boots attacker set that can catch mons offguard. Like banded crunch can open up Slowking for the likes of valiant and bolt.

And true it wont sweep fatter teams but it can still put pressure on a lot of builds and even punch holes for other teammates. Not to mention it so goddamm fast for how bulky it is, how hard it hits and the potential to end games too. If you don't have bulky ghosts or dragapult on your team you will probably need atleast 2 mons to deal with this mon. Which is I guess is fine for a lot of people and honestly probably nothing special in a way. Who knows, with the rise of Sinistcha maybe things are adapting to it. But Zama will probably adapt back.


Lastly I wanna apologize if it comes across as "doomerpostin". I had to let out some of my negativity and grievances somewhere and it sure as hell shouldn't be towards my opponent so I hope you can forgive me. The points above might just be salt fueled and my own frustration at myself at not being able to adapt when I felt like I could before. I admit, I am a bad player so hopefully I can make peace with that now.

I know people will tell me I can quit the game and play sth else if I don't enjoy it and to be honest,, FAIR. Mons has been the game I love for years but it is not like the only game out there. Cheers.

Thanks for this post. Don’t feel too disheartened about the elo fluctuations. Nobody can consistently sit on high ladder. Even the best players are always rising and falling on their alts.

If you made it to 1900, you can make it again. You’d be surprised how much situational factors affect your gameplay on the day-to-day. State of mind plays a big role. If you’re a little tired or off your game the little mistakes add up. Conversely, when you’re at your peak state you’ll surprise yourself with how many straight wins you can get.

Many times I’ll drop into the 1600s from 1800 when I’m just tired or careless, but inevitably rise back up. A friend of mine who is a much better player consistently oscillates between 1900 and the 1700s when testing teams and new strategies.
 
adding onto the kyurem discussion, genuine question has kyurem spawned any new techs or sets for mons OTHER than itself to check it?i know AV crown exist and its one of my favs to use but i genuinely think thats it, like i guess you can say AV glowking but im not sure if that ones too viable unless you can get hazards off EVERY time before it comes in, would love to get examples though
 
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