Exca might have had a shot if it got Ice Spinner and Knock Off, but because it didn't I feel its significantly worse than Treads outside of sand teams, which has better speed, bulk, coverage, and utility, giving it more workable match-ups into Pokemon like Gliscor, Kyurem, and even Skarmory if you elect to run Thunder. Swords Dance is cool, but not enough of a selling point over Treads.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [PALAFIN RETEST]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I don't want to comment much because it's not yet playable, but I do want to point out a few mons that I think will be fun and solid. I also want to defend the decision to start Terapagos OU, since I've seen a lot of people complaining about it.
I think it's wrong to at least not try Terapagos, even if it lasts 3 hours. We know BST isn't a good enough argument to ban something especially in a situation where we're still not 100% sure how well Terapagos's weird mechanics will play out in a singles setting. I'm fairly certain the Stellar form will be broken. I believe it should be precedent to allow pretty much every new pokemon to start OU unless it is very obviously broken (Koraidon, Miraidon, etc.) In theory yes, it's absolutely busted, but especially with the wack mechanics of this DLC and specifically this mon, no reason it shouldn't be tried in OU. Also, I think the new tera type will be almost zero used on anything other than Terapagos, and contrary users like Serperior and Enamorus. It's bad.
Weather will be bad to start IMO & so will Gouging Fire (also known as Packing Heat). Terapagos is going to be spammed and the Stellar form getting rid of weather is going to impact Gouging Fire negatively, unfortunately. I do believe this mon will be a healthy offensive presence in the meta, because it has a number of offensive & defensive counterplay, and is held back by the recoil in order to have good fire STAB. It's also going to want to run Loaded Dice to boost Scale Shot, but it also really wants Boots. Looking forward to this mon if Terapagos ends up being too much
The Cons of Iron Crown: bad typing, mid speed tier, outclassed by a lot of other booster mons
The Pros of Iron Crown: it's going to win a lot of games regardless
this thing is going to be mad broken, book it now. no explanation to why, it's just going to be good. great movepool and great bulk and will be a great defensive tera user & sweeper.
wait... wait....
we did it boys, BW sand is back in a big way.
I think it's wrong to at least not try Terapagos, even if it lasts 3 hours. We know BST isn't a good enough argument to ban something especially in a situation where we're still not 100% sure how well Terapagos's weird mechanics will play out in a singles setting. I'm fairly certain the Stellar form will be broken. I believe it should be precedent to allow pretty much every new pokemon to start OU unless it is very obviously broken (Koraidon, Miraidon, etc.) In theory yes, it's absolutely busted, but especially with the wack mechanics of this DLC and specifically this mon, no reason it shouldn't be tried in OU. Also, I think the new tera type will be almost zero used on anything other than Terapagos, and contrary users like Serperior and Enamorus. It's bad.
Weather will be bad to start IMO & so will Gouging Fire (also known as Packing Heat). Terapagos is going to be spammed and the Stellar form getting rid of weather is going to impact Gouging Fire negatively, unfortunately. I do believe this mon will be a healthy offensive presence in the meta, because it has a number of offensive & defensive counterplay, and is held back by the recoil in order to have good fire STAB. It's also going to want to run Loaded Dice to boost Scale Shot, but it also really wants Boots. Looking forward to this mon if Terapagos ends up being too much
The Cons of Iron Crown: bad typing, mid speed tier, outclassed by a lot of other booster mons
The Pros of Iron Crown: it's going to win a lot of games regardless
this thing is going to be mad broken, book it now. no explanation to why, it's just going to be good. great movepool and great bulk and will be a great defensive tera user & sweeper.
wait... wait....
we did it boys, BW sand is back in a big way.
Although it will be decent, it is absolutely SCREWED over by ghold and gambit, without teraing. It does counter tusk, so it will likely have a niche, but you will have to have lots of anti-ghold/gambit tech, which an offensive mon is supposed to do. Again, not bad, but not great.first post in da new metagame thread, how does everyone thinkwill fare in this new metagame? i believe he could actually be very good this gen thanks to the advent of offensive tera and the buffs he got to his movepool (gaining flip turn, luster purge buffs). with all that being said, i think he will take quite some time to pick up in usage/viability (since HO will likely run him over unfortunately) but once the tier settles down i think ihe could rise as an extremely powerful wallbreaker with choice specs. you could also run 3A + recover or choice scarf but i think specs is what really makes him shine. but how would you all rate his potential in OU?
Edit: It now gets aura sphere, my bad. Still gets screwed by ghold and fitting in aura sphere is difficult with other great moves in kit. Specs and scarf can lose to gambit if it predicts, so my point kinda still stands.
Imagine if you said to a BW player that gliscor is the only one to be banned, they would be flabbergasted.wait... wait....
we did it boys, BW sand is back in a big way.
Wait, excadrill was once banned, nevermind.
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Clicking a Psychic move in the early meta will be risky so despite having flip turn and Aura Sphere i don't think latios will take off at the beginning, but once the meta settles youre right, I think it will be really strong. Probably OU viable like around B+ tier, the luster purge buff + having a pivoting move to exploit the switches it forces is game changing for it.first post in da new metagame thread, how does everyone think
Guys it's 2:45AM here I'm going to sleep now and should wake sometime before 10AM. I WANNA GET ONE OU GAME WITH THE TURTLE PLS DON'T BAN IT FOR THE NEXT 8 HOURS OR I WILL BE EXTREMELY SAD AND WAH WAH CRYING
The main idea I have for my first DLC2 team is Sun with Torkoal, Sub Agility Wake, Defensive Tusk, Venusaur, Hat Entei and AV Bridge. Considering even maybe running an E-Terrain/M-Terrain team to counter Darkrai? Worth it?
The main idea I have for my first DLC2 team is Sun with Torkoal, Sub Agility Wake, Defensive Tusk, Venusaur, Hat Entei and AV Bridge. Considering even maybe running an E-Terrain/M-Terrain team to counter Darkrai? Worth it?
Honestly I dislike the whole "BST doesn't matter" argument. In like 99% of cases, BST determines where you'll end up being. Slaking, Regigigas, Hoopa-U, Zamazenta, and Kyurem-B in older gens are an exception, and they're an exception for a good reason.
I think it's wrong to at least not try Terapagos, even if it lasts 3 hours. We know BST isn't a good enough argument to ban something especially in a situation where we're still not 100% sure how well Terapagos's weird mechanics will play out in a singles setting. I'm fairly certain the Stellar form will be broken. I believe it should be precedent to allow pretty much every new pokemon to start OU unless it is very obviously broken (Koraidon, Miraidon, etc.) In theory yes, it's absolutely busted, but especially with the wack mechanics of this DLC and specifically this mon, no reason it shouldn't be tried in OU. Also, I think the new tera type will be almost zero used on anything other than Terapagos, and contrary users like Serperior and Enamorus. It's bad.
Slaking has a detrimental ability making it so it loses every other turn.
Regigigas is similar but now having halved Atk and Spe for 5 turns every time it's sent out.
Kyurem-B had terrible movepool having a 2 turn move be its only physical Ice move, while also being an Ice type, then got Icicle Spear and Dragon Dance.
Hoopa-U has terrible defensive profile being slow, physically frail, and having 1 type it switches into.
Zamazenta like Kyurem-B before has a pretty bad movepool and also its stats being too mid outside of speed.
Terapagos doesn't have such detrimental flaws. Stellar form only requires you to use Tera and you get Pokemon with 160/110/110 bulk, 130 SpA, perm x1.2 boost to all non-STAB attacks, Adaptability boost to Normal attacks, a move that have nothing that resists it, and as a bonus can remove weather and terrain on switch in.
This is definitely a case of a Pokemon that's obviously broken
It’s our mythical and at of current time is unreleased
IIRC it's a Mythical that will eventually get its own event like in Gens 3 & 4.
you can run mystical fire for both but why would you? aura sphere smacks kingambit and heatran much harder and gholdengo cant switch into repeated draco meteors anyhow. if it terastallizes dragon you get 2HKOd on the spot. latios definitely has his outs against them but he requires a lot of careful chip beforehand or forces him to tera to break either of them. neither MU is ideal for latios but he is not helpless against them either. i think the bigger issue lies in how much faster everything has gotten, not to mention how a lot of these faster pokemon can easily force latios out
Regarding Terapagos Stellar-form (the 700 BST one), does its Weather-removing ability only work once per battle? Cause I think I've read somewhere that it's not supposed to be like Air Lock, and it takes effect exclusively upon the mon transforming.
I've got some bad news
What? *double checks research thread* Seriously? That has to be a bug, but that's interesting.
Stellar's Tera Starstorm is weaker than Terastal's due to effectively going from 180 Power with STAB to 144 with the Stellar Buff! +25 Base SpA is less gain than a 36 Power loss. That means you should NOT use your Tera on Terapagos offensively for Tera Starstorm unless you need it to not be a Normal Attack! It's a massive buff for any other attack though, so it's worth it if you need to buff another attack, like Stored Power.
Defensively, the only defensive buff Stellar form has is 130 HP, so you don't lose out on extra Def or SpD if you don't Tera if you know you're going to survive without the extra 130 HP. (Unless you get a Crit... There's also the "what if" of if that 130 HP will be needed to switch in later.)
Unreleased. :(
Fun Fact for anyone that didn't get Walking Wake or Iron Leaves: They're also event only! Yay...
I sure do love event only mons
I agree with you, Latios will fall off a bit early on, but some QBs on some OP mons like Deo-S will likely allow it to eventually make it back in the long run.
I agree with you, Latios will fall off a bit early on, but some QBs on some OP mons like Deo-S will likely allow it to eventually make it back in the long run.
Latios lost mystical fire in this game, so that is no longer an option. It's sad because as you said, it could hit both. Definetly outclassed by others, especially with both Deoxys forms in the tier, which although intially slower and frailer, can boost with np, and darkrai which outspeeds and ohkos you with dark pulse. It will probably become a lot better if at the very least, one of them leaves, but will always have a niche in the tier because again, it counter tusk extremely hard.
Latias on the other hand, yeah that ain't going to work, maybe it will even drop to RU???? Hope not and probably won't, but if t-tar is RU, anything can happen.
I disagree mainly because our favorite turtle has a pretty bad case of 4ms without the perfect neutral coverage stellar terastorm provides
rapid spin/rock polish
Calm mind
Tera star storm
Stored Power or Coverage, probably either moonblast or aura sphere to help against ting Lu and bliss.
That extra power doesn’t matter if you’re completely walled
ttar has way worse flaws than Latias and that’s why it dropped so far down. Latias was also UUBL last gen and got buffed this gen. It’s not going below UU.
Deoxys speed won't last 2 weeks in OU. It's hazard stacking plus Gholdengo will be hard to stop.
Currently working on OU reserved threads for Deoxys-D/Bastiodon, but I wanted to quickly share the Pokemon I'm the most excited to try in this upcoming new DLC2 OU meta. There looks to be so much more variety here than pre-DLC OU and (especially) DLC1 OU.
A lot of Pokemon got some really interesting new buffs (including Bastiodon who FINALLY got Body Press), so it'll be interesting to see what the new meta staples end up being!
A lot of Pokemon got some really interesting new buffs (including Bastiodon who FINALLY got Body Press), so it'll be interesting to see what the new meta staples end up being!
I think its worth noting that deoxys speed has like 20+ viable sets it can run in OU, while most of these sets are related to hazards and set up a good few are also offensive sets (Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho shift hits harder than Specs Dragapult Draco meteor for context)
To argue deoxys-speed is not broken is a take that one must be insane to make
its speed stat + taunt and spikes lets it set up hazards pretty much without obstacle in this tier, there are only a handful of pokemon capable of beating a lead deoxys-speed matchup and it has ways to work around all of them (including itself with trick scarf)
I genuinely have no clue why anyone thought this mon should be tested in OU.
To argue deoxys-speed is not broken is a take that one must be insane to make
its speed stat + taunt and spikes lets it set up hazards pretty much without obstacle in this tier, there are only a handful of pokemon capable of beating a lead deoxys-speed matchup and it has ways to work around all of them (including itself with trick scarf)
I genuinely have no clue why anyone thought this mon should be tested in OU.
Can you guys keep terapagos here for like 3 days, I'm busy but I want to play with my funny turtle for one game. ty xoxo
Anyway, while it's impossible to predict how a meta will shape from the first days, considering so much stuff will be warped to deal with mons that won't last for longer than a month, I think this dlc2 might shape into a really fun meta. We got a lot of new toys that actually seem to have some viability and move expansions that can deal with issues like gliscor, ghold, gambit etc
Anyway, while it's impossible to predict how a meta will shape from the first days, considering so much stuff will be warped to deal with mons that won't last for longer than a month, I think this dlc2 might shape into a really fun meta. We got a lot of new toys that actually seem to have some viability and move expansions that can deal with issues like gliscor, ghold, gambit etc
one example
and this is one of the many set up sets he can have, it even learn stored power just to force all the unaware user of the game to run tera dark
is probably at same level, if not better than diancie
Latias does have access to Draining Kiss, so it might be able to pull off a Double Dance Stored Power set. Back that up with Tera (Tera Steel with Levitate is always fun) and maybe get some work done.
Considering how easy Tusk is to wear down, especially with stuff like Gliscor around. I don’t think it is that bad of a hinderance. Also in case you wanted to just one shot it.
+2 252 Atk Tera Ground Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 354-418 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
On Sand, Drill outspeeds Booster Valiant, even with an Adamant nature and is invaluable on sand teams due to its ability to spin, clean, and threaten fast offensive threats. Considering Ttar has a few good mus into a couple threats, I think sand might make a comeback.
IMO gouging fire could be crazy cuz it's a fairly strong dd sweeper that can also function as a good wall and it really doesn't need to invest much to use it's great bulk. Gouging fire can also use temper flare (fire type stomping tantrum) or heat crash (it weighs 1300.7lbs or 590kg, so yes he is a fatty). For dragon stab you could just use dragon claw. Also, it get's morning sun because why the fuck not also you technically don't have to run boots because of how fat this thing is so you could very well run loaded dice.