Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[ianlazerbeem]

honestly this whole era of competitive singles has been great for stall haters because stall is dogwater in gen 9 and people rarely play stall in old gens (because not playing stall is more fun and that's the only reason you'd play oldgen ladder)

Not a single correct word in this whole post

-Stall was great and really fun to use at points in prehome as well as DLC1 before the mistake known as the Gliscor ban, pretty good during the arch era as well and has been viable in most iterations of the meta (least so during the zap king Lu dark ages)
-stall players love old gens, often more than gen 9
-stall is quite common in metas like GSC, DPP, and ORAS
-playing stall is fun for a lot of people, just not you
-there are reasons to play oldgen ladders beyond fun, for instance tournament practice

please research and engage with the stall community more before confidently making false blanket statements like these

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Not a single correct word in this whole post

-Stall was great and really fun to use at points in prehome as well as DLC1 before the mistake known as the Gliscor ban, pretty good during the arch era as well and has been viable in most iterations of the meta (least so during the zap king Lu dark ages)
-stall players love old gens, often more than gen 9
-stall is quite common in metas like GSC, DPP, and ORAS
-playing stall is fun for a lot of people, just not you
-there are reasons to play oldgen ladders beyond fun, for instance tournament practice

please research and engage with the stall community more before confidently making false blanket statements like these

Although I am a stall hater, I have to add to this post. If you check the RMT section you can see the amount of people that created successful stall teams that did fairly well (like the vileplume one created by 658Greninja that was posted recently) not only at the present time but in DLC1 and maybe even before that.

Edit:

I'm sorry Smogon, I've finally converted to stall.

............no.............what did i do.....

 

[sims796]

Although I am a stall hater, I have to add to this post. If you check the RMT section you can see the amount of people that created successful stall teams that did fairly well (like the vileplume one created by 658Greninja that was posted recently) not only at the present time but in DLC1 and maybe even before that.

Ex. Cuse. Me.

I'm sorry Smogon, I've finally converted to stall.

EDIT: I'm sorry, do you mind linking it? I can't quite find the thread.

EDIT 2: Found it!

 

[mrsuslawl]

What happened with CTC anyways? I haven't been too active on the forums for the past few weeks due to personal stuff and apparently the guy's account got nuked while I was busy.

ctc and daddybuzzwole started arguing in the ban thread and iirc CTC dropped some slurs and got his acc banned

 

[sims796]

ctc and daddybuzzwole started arguing in the ban thread and iirc CTC dropped some slurs and got his acc banned

It wasn't just with dbuzz, either, dude just seemed to have that Reddit fervour with everyone. No offense to Redditors, I'm one of course, but IYKYK.

Made me avoid posting in that thread until that was amended.

 

[YubelVT]

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gouging Fire: 232-274 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
reminder that this guy has more physical bulk than skarmory on top of reliable recovery

THE CHIP LET'S GO

It wasn't just with dbuzz, either, dude just seemed to have that Reddit fervour with everyone. No offense to Redditors, I'm one of course, but IYKYK.

Made me avoid posting in that thread until that was amended.

CTC just kinda seemed to be this

 

[RainWaiv]

View attachment 616866

this guy looks like eric van wilderman

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

IMO I would rather get run over by an offensive team than a stall team and my view on stall hasn't changed since I started playing
A meta filled with just offense mons means fast paced games which for me is better than 800+ turns of during small chip damage to everything.

yes, but this is like saying "i'd rather get punched in the arm than punched in the face". personally i'd rather not get punched at all (ignore my profile picture)

 

[Heatranator]

yes, but this is like saying "i'd rather get punched in the arm than punched in the face". personally i'd rather not get punched at all (ignore my profile picture)

I think the phrase that fits facing stall best in "Death by a thousand cuts".
Some people can take the extended pain well, while for some it is the most unbearable thing ever. I am in the latter camp.
Doing the pain however, that is a different story, because then I am all for cutting down my opponents a thousand times.

 

[RainWaiv]

I think the phrase that fits facing stall best in "Death by a thousand cuts".
Some people can take the extended pain well, while for some it is the most unbearable thing ever. I am in the latter camp.
Doing the pain however, that is a different story, because then I am all for cutting down my opponents a thousand times.

I think the difference between playing stall and playing against stall is that playing stall is an active choice on your part. I still don't play it because I think I have better things to do with my time than toxic an entire team and switch between my regenerator mons for 70 turns, but being put up against stall is like watching paint dry but instead of being an active choice you're forced to sit there and watch and click and maybe get a few predicts right otherwise you know for sure your gxe will be unrecoverable and your chance at the suspect test is pretty much over.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I think the phrase that fits facing stall best in "Death by a thousand cuts".
Some people can take the extended pain well, while for some it is the most unbearable thing ever. I am in the latter camp.
Doing the pain however, that is a different story, because then I am all for cutting down my opponents a thousand times.

ah yes, as a great man once said:

In Chess, The terminology people use to describe my play style is Positional.
I am a positional player.

Some people in chess are aggressive.
They like fast attacks and sacrificing pieces to win in blaze of glory.

We would call Hyper Offense aggressive.
It’s like someone taking a Gun and shooting a person in head.
It’s aggressive and fast.

Positional Play would be like putting a person in a Big oven and slowly turning the temperature from low to medium to high.
A person in an oven will die.
It’s going to be slow, painful and methodical.

Pokémon Death by thousands Spike entries cuts!
I’m play in a way which forces you to switch and when you do you will take hazard damage.
I’m keep chipping you down.
I’m keep the pressure on you.
I’m slowly turn up the heat, until your position cracks or you boil over inside and make a mistake.

 

[sims796]

I really don't hate facing stall all that much. Either it's a sucky team, and I can laugh at how flimsy the attempt was, or it's deceptively well put, and the best part (when losing) is not knowing I've lost until its too late.

"Why is X not dead?!"

Is something I find myself saying. It's pretty humbling.

 

[Heatranator]

+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Regirock: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Cooking up a regirock team, cause I have used registeel and Morkal has used regice to good success, I'm going to finish the original quartet (regidrago can go stuff itself I ain't going to use it in OU. jk, I like that mon)

 

[DaRotomMachine]

(regidrago can go stuff itself I ain't going to use it in OU. jk, I like that mon)

Regidrago @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Steel
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
- Tera Blast

top quality stuff right here yk?

 

[viivian]

ctc sacrificing his account only for GF to remain unbanned is going to make it to top 5 smogon moments of march 2024

genuinely curious, did CTC's ban actually change the outcome of the vote or did most people simply begin to adapt to gouging fire's presence in the metagame

 

[FayaWizard]

genuinely curious, did CTC's ban actually change the outcome of the vote or did most people simply begin to adapt to gouging fire's presence in the metagame

No, the metagame simply shifted as people discovered ways to beat the Breaking Swipe set, as well as the general hype around it slowly dying.

 

[MC Squared]

ctc sacrificing his account only for GF to remain unbanned is going to make it to top 5 smogon moments of march 2024

So is he permabanned from the Smogon forums or is this a timed ban?

 

[Blue glass]

genuinely curious, did CTC's ban actually change the outcome of the vote or did most people simply begin to adapt to gouging fire's presence in the metagame

Only 37.2% voted for the ban so Gouging Fire wouldn't have been banned even if we remove the people who voted only because of CTC's ban. The community changed their mind like they did with Walking Wake.

 

[pika pal]

genuinely curious, did CTC's ban actually change the outcome of the vote or did most people simply begin to adapt to gouging fire's presence in the metagame

It's mostly just people memeing/joking since CTC was one of the earliest DNB proponents for GF before the sentiment overall shifted visibly in the thread (several early pages show a lot more pro-ban vs DNB and that ratio shifts hard later one).

So is he permabanned from the Smogon forums or is this a timed ban?

My understanding is he had other infractions and the conduct in the Suspect thread earned him a 3rd one with a time/duration on it, such that he'll be able to post again when that one (or one of the other two if one of those was timed) is done.

 

[East Coast Elite]

Finchinator I really have to say, I have 0 belief the meta won’t stop rapidly adapting with all the threats left here. Sure Gouging Fire shouldn’t have been banned, but there’s such intense threat saturation that a team that does well one week is bad a few days later.

Quite often I’ll find that a 1800s 10 days ago struggles in mid ladder now. Besides an Archaludon situation, I have trouble seeing anything else getting banned especially because top players love Raging Bolt and Waterpon. This gen has been defined by offense/HO with so many tools, it’s super difficult to keep up with in the builder and with no bans on the horizon (or suspects likely to pass for that matter) I don’t see any evidence of it slowing down.

 

[Finchinator]

Finchinator I really have to say, I have 0 belief the meta won’t stop rapidly adapting with all the threats left here. Sure Gouging Fire shouldn’t have been banned, but there’s such intense threat saturation that a team that does well one week is bad a few days later.

Quite often I’ll find that a 1800s 10 days ago struggles in mid ladder now. Besides an Archaludon situation, I have trouble seeing anything else getting banned especially because top players love Raging Bolt and Waterpon. This gen has been defined by offense/HO with so many tools, it’s super difficult to keep up with in the builder and with no bans on the horizon (or suspects likely to pass for that matter) I don’t see any evidence of it slowing down.

I think people just need to be patient and understanding; we have had “oh no, oh fuck, this is bad” moments scattered throughout the history of OU.

BW was even worse than this when Keldeo wasn’t banned, SM had plenty of gloom-and-doom when Dugtrio initially stayed, and last generation had so many public fires to put out between Dynamax and the pace of tiering surrounding the new early-generation releases.

I promise you guys that there will be more tiering action this generation — this isn’t a guess or a hypothesis, but there’s no way we are going to go a year and a half of constant evolution without any tiering progress.

I think we have the perfect storm right now: constant releases, Tera is entirely unprecedented, power creep is higher and more varied than ever, and big tournaments happening quickly after releases. All of these things overlapping is going to cause chaos and I think it’s actually a good thing the tier is naturally evolving.

However, there is work to be done. The tier will continue to naturally develop and eventually (sooner rather than later) we will look into the next steps tiering wise, too. You guys just need to be patient and not obsess over recent results.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

My understanding is he had other infractions and the conduct in the Suspect thread earned him a 3rd one with a time/duration on it, such that he'll be able to post again when that one (or one of the other two if one of those was timed) is done.

from what i've been told, he actually has a permanent 3-point infraction because he's permalocked on showdown (for spamming or trolling probably), so it only takes a single infraction for him to be banned at any given time. that being said, you're right, he'll be back in a couple months, although considering his history of ban evasion he can kinda just come back whenever he likes. it's really hard to get permabanned on the forums for just toxic behavior or even for constant rule violations, it usually has to cross over into actual-crime territory or stuff like doxxing, death threats, blatant racism, etc

 

[East Coast Elite]

I think people just need to be patient and understanding; we have had “oh no, oh fuck, this is bad” moments scattered throughout the history of OU.

BW was even worse than this when Keldeo wasn’t banned, SM had plenty of gloom-and-doom when Dugtrio initially stayed, and last generation had so many public fires to put out between Dynamax and the pace of tiering surrounding the new early-generation releases.

I promise you guys that there will be more tiering action this generation — this isn’t a guess or a hypothesis, but there’s no way we are going to go a year and a half of constant evolution without any tiering progress.

I think we have the perfect storm right now: constant releases, Tera is entirely unprecedented, power creep is higher and more varied than ever, and big tournaments happening quickly after releases. All of these things overlapping is going to cause chaos and I think it’s actually a good thing the tier is naturally evolving.

However, there is work to be done. The tier will continue to naturally develop and eventually (sooner rather than later) we will look into the next steps tiering wise, too. You guys just need to be patient and not obsess over recent results.

I understand and trust you, but it’s just a bit frustrating. Feels like a “rich get richer” sort of meta for the foreseeable future.

 

[Finchinator]

I understand and trust you, but it’s just a bit frustrating. Feels like a “rich get richer” sort of meta for the foreseeable future.

I do not think anyone wins when the metagame struggles; a lot of top players are frustrated with things, too. We saw it in a handful of suspect posts (and votes), too. I really just think we need to be patient!

But yes, I hear you and your concerns. I get why people see things this way and all I can say is I assure you we are working our hardest right now.

 

[East Coast Elite]

I do not think anyone wins when the metagame struggles; a lot of top players are frustrated with things, too. We saw it in a handful of suspect posts (and votes), too. I really just think we need to be patient!

But yes, I hear you and your concerns. I get why people see things this way and all I can say is I assure you we are working our hardest right now.

Thanks! Appreciate the (mostly thankless) work you do!