Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [PALAFIN RETEST]

Glad Gouging Fire is sticking around since it's a reasonable answer to Gambit and Volc that can deal with both that we know will probably stick around with such a low ban percentage reminiscent of Zamazenta-H. Gouging Fire being able to keep the tera cheese pokemon in Gambit and Volc in line is very good and genuinely helps keeping those two in line. I think it's probably time to suspect Roaring Moon or Waterpon finally, since both are long overdue for suspects at this point.

BobbyHill said:
I said this before the Gouging Fire suspect and I’ll say it again. Nothing is getting banned for the rest of the meta.
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I wouldn't say that necessarily, I could see Roaring Moon and Waterpon getting high ban percentages since lots of people really hate playing against them
 
awyp said:
Just keep in mind there was a policy review to change the World Cup format in terms of which tiers being played because people are so discontent with the SV OU tier yet people want to keep voting DNB especially this time around where a bunch of people don’t play the tier get reqs to vote DNB to help the martyrdom of CTC.
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Oh please there is less salt in the dead sea than contained in this post. Even if it were true, they made the concerted effort to get the requirements to keep prehistoric enti in the tier, which they were literally qualified to do so over the countless others that didn't get the requirements but play frequently anyways.

Conspiracy theory aside it's not unreasonable or unwelcome that people participate in a suspect that started with a large amount of support for a ban at first and weeks later changing their mind after they actually played and found out for themselves.
 
Pokemon Trainer: Shadow said:
Hmm, genuinely shocked by the result. I guess people have found ways of dealing with Gouging Fire.
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Landorus-T being able to deal with all the sets is definitely a factor of being able to keep it, as well as being able to keep Volc and Gambit in line

I was someone teetering back and forth on whether Gouging was broken, but in the end I decided it was fine and if I actually bothered to go for reqs I would have voted no ban.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
Landorus-T being able to deal with all the sets is definitely a factor of being able to keep it, as well as being able to keep Volc and Gambit in line

I was someone teetering back and forth on whether Gouging was broken, but in the end I decided it was fine and if I actually bothered to go for reqs I would have voted no ban.
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Landorus-T can’t deal with the Raging Fury Sun set very well. Even at -1 Atk Proto Speed still has a high chance to OHKO Landorus-T.
 
awyp said:
Just keep in mind there was a policy review to change the World Cup format in terms of which tiers being played because people are so discontent with the SV OU tier yet people want to keep voting DNB especially this time around where a bunch of people don’t play the tier get reqs to vote DNB to help the martyrdom of CTC.
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I'm very concerned about the mod promotion process if people like you are getting through it and making these reddit tier posts. People wanted a different format for WCOP this year cause the 1 tier thingy caused fatigue. I think 8 SVs is the best option but I've never been on the WCOP stage so I don't know the best. Cry on Reddit instead please.
 
Pretty demotivated by the result but it is what it is :psysad:

Don’t realistically see anything being banned beyond this point since most of the current problematic mons all answer each other in diff ways so there’s almost always going to be division. Will continue to adapt until next time tho
 
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see y'all after a few bans jesus christ
 

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Paternozzo said:
No way people are mad that someone changed his opinion like it's not a completely normal thing lmaooooo
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:( Nobody gets anything. It wasn’t in a bad mood. Honestly, main reason I wanted GF banned was so Spammernoob would stop crushing me with Sun in CAP. I’m pretty neutral about it otherwise.
 
LORD SAGIS said:
I'm very concerned about the mod promotion process if people like you are getting through it and making these reddit tier posts. People wanted a different format for WCOP this year cause the 1 tier thingy caused fatigue. I think 8 SVs is the best option but I've never been on the WCOP stage so I don't know the best. Cry on Reddit instead please.
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Yup your post checks out, stay concerned then

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malomyotismon said:
Oh please there is less salt in the dead sea than contained in this post. Even if it were true, they made the concerted effort to get the requirements to keep prehistoric enti in the tier, which they were literally qualified to do so over the countless others that didn't get the requirements but play frequently anyways.

Conspiracy theory aside it's not unreasonable or unwelcome that people participate in a suspect that started with a large amount of support for a ban at first and weeks later changing their mind after they actually played and found out for themselves.
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Nice one, yeah my post is very salty but I think the reality of the fact is there had been an influx of voters who wanted to get reqs based on whatever they believe in regardless if has any merit or not that's not the point. I know people are discontent with this meta and if we want to continue to vote DNB with Archaladon being the only mon that 'the people' have voted ban on we're really in for a shit time with the remaining portion we have left with CG OU.

Do I think CTC was the only reason Gouging Fire got banned? No I'm sure people had a change of heart, this stuff happens all the time but I know that the votes would've been much closer if it hadn't been with CTC getting banned in the first place.
 
cromatkastar said:
this gen having all these broken mons keeping each other in check so that you can't ban one of them without the others becoming dominant reminds me of this


View attachment 615686
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Well technically that would mean that together they are not actually broke if they kept everything in a healthy state of equilibrium, but whether that is the case or not is not something I would suggested i am qualified to say.

On gouging Fire I don't personally think it's broken but it exists in a rather frustrating grey area that could be subject to change in future especially if other things change that it push in on direction or another.
 
awyp said:
Nice one, yeah my post is very salty but I think the reality of the fact is there had been an influx of voters who wanted to get reqs based on whatever they believe in regardless if has any merit or not that's not the point. I know people are discontent with this meta and if we want to continue to vote DNB with Archaladon being the only mon that 'the people' have voted ban on we're really in for a shit time with the remaining portion we have left with CG OU.

Do I think CTC was the only reason Gouging Fire got banned? No I'm sure people had a change of heart, this stuff happens all the time but I know that the votes would've been much closer if it hadn't been with CTC getting banned in the first place.
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See this point makes sense (ofc people changed their opinions, but there's no doubt CTC's posts swayed some people or even convinced some people to try for reqs in the first place) but now what does that have to do with your initial point of WCoP supposedly changing because of "discontent with SV OU"?
 
Disappointed with the results. What's even more disappointing is that this is yet another case where survey scores seemingly didn't matter. Gouging went from a 4.1 on survey -> under 50% ban vote, while arch only got a 2.6 -> 75% ban. We saw this before with Ursaluna-BM and Urshifu.

Realistically I don't see any other Pokemon getting banned after this. I'm likely to vote dnb on Volcarona and am undecided on Waterpon / Raging Bolt. Tera Blast will never get banned I think.
 
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I am just gonna put this out here, CTC had absolutely no impact on my change of heart. I despise some of the top players mentality, "lol you can't deal with it because you are a bad player" shtick and them locking down on you if you don't agree. I know some of them(not all. alot of them seem chill) give off the impression of an elite club looking down on the masses.

That said, loudly complaining while not doing anything(getting reqs, posting possible solutions, experiecing ladder with a variety of things) is also something I dislike so I understand that point of view too.

(I also forgot to vote cause I was busy with something else but I did get reqs). This was simply my experience from using the breaking swipe set and facing it. I was a little underwhelmed for something that broke the "Camerupt's back".

GF CAN be snowbally, dont get me wrong. But both the bulky version and offensive DD sets have similar answers and are also predictable(at least for now. I have seen a GF run sub to prey on more passive mons). CB is sun exclusive it is starting to get more answers as well with double water cores, Heatran and bulky protect stalling mons to waste sun turns making it's live harder. Not to mention it is also really hard to find a safe entry point for this mon lately, except if you run eject button Hatt/ something else but that also brings other problems, like an opponent pressuring you offensively early and you needing your Hatt to stay in to cripple it with Nuzzle but oops, you got send away. You know how in Yugioh, there are shitload of bossmonsters with jacked-up stats and game winning effects but are still considered bad because bringing them out is such a hassle? That is how it feels like.

^ those were simply my experiences. Quite a lot of people have different experiences here which is fine and I think you guys have valid points but I have my own criteria based on what is broken or not.

I completely get if you dislike the current meta but in my opinion it wouldn't change much with GF gone. I hate quite a lot of things currently but the elements that I hate are something most people are content with (for example I dislike Kingambits presence even though I can aknowledge the positives he brings) so I kinda have given up on that and deal with it. I encourage people to get reqs if you want change, even if you fail to get it, just do it for the experince. No shame if you don't get them. Me, I am not sure if I wanna do another reqs run since it was mentally exhausting but it was a fun experience.

In fact I feel like I should take a break. This game can reinforce the worst aspects of me especially since you can get rng'd or cheesed to hell because one wrong turn can cost you the game.
 
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lucky333 said:
That said, loudly complaining while not doing anything(getting reqs, posting possible solutions, experiencing ladder with a variety of things) is also something I dislike so I understand that point of view too…

GF CAN be snowbally, dont get me wrong. But both the bulky version and offensive DD sets have similar answers and are also predictable(at least for now. I have seen a GF run sub to prey on more passive mons). CB is sun exclusive it is starting to get more answers as well with double water cores, Heatran and bulky protect stalling mons to waste sun turns making it's live harder. Not to mention it is also really hard to find a safe entry point for this mon lately, except if you run eject button Hatt/ something else but that also brings other problems, like an opponent pressuring you offensively early and you needing your Hatt to stay in cripple it with Nuzzle but oops, you got send away.
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This and this.
 
cromatkastar said:
dont think thats true. the 5 families keep each other in check, but i don't think anyone would say that their existence is/was good for... society
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I'm sure there is a welcome to our sad irl reality there XD. No you are right, I do get having 5 problematic individuals that prevent each other being problematic, but at the same time are problematic for everything else yet remove one and everything falls apart like a bunch of Jenga blocks. Tis a complicated issue to be sure, make me wonder what removing all in a susspect would look like just to see.
 
I'm not surprised at GF not getting banned but this shows that if that wasn't banned, nothing else will for the rest of the gen. We're very late into the meta/gen and at the point where you basically need this mon to keep in check this other one and another one to keep in check or counter this one and the story goes on and on.
 
UnusualBoy said:
I'm not surprised at GF not getting banned but this shows that if that wasn't banned, nothing else will for the rest of the gen. We're very late into the meta/gen and at the point where you basically need this mon to keep in check this other one and another one to keep in check or counter this one and the story goes on and on.
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i mean to be fair we are not getting the next generation any time soon.
 
Gen 9 huh...Truly the generation that keeps shooting itself in the foot - where every suspect splits the player base in half and no one can agree on what is and isn't acceptable.

If you don't like this gen as it is, pack it up and play something else. The main players have decided on the identity of the tier and unless the almighty CTC himself bestows upon us mere mortals his teachings of what will bless the tier, nothing will gain enough traction for change. Barring some divine discovery, this is gen 9 folks.

With no clear direction of where to go from here, I implore those with power to use this time to reflect and consider modernizing some of the policies that got us here.

For instance, would have the tier been made more enjoyable if Supreme Overlord was banned? How about Electro Shot? Did we have to wait for a 2nd Last Respects user before the move was banned? I understand why things are as they are but modern mons are designed differently than how they were 10 years ago - we should seriously reconsider our collective stance on how exclusive moves and abilities are evaluated.

Look away now...

We have 3 different interpretations of sleep clause across the site. Regardless of your view whether it was the right thing to do or not, wouldn't it be nice to have consistency? Was it the right decision to ban sleep and not Darkrai on current tiering policy? I don't know (spoilers no one does because that meta doesn't exist) but I do know that that decision indirectly nerfed grass types, indirectly nerfed sun, indirectly buffed waterpon etc. Was it right to enact a change that had (unforeseen?) meta changing consequences when something much simpler could have been enacted and then, if that didn't settle the issue, ban sleep clause? Again, I don't know but if tiering policy drove us to make such a widespread change instead of a more granular one (Darkrai) that could have been built upon if that didn't work, then I think that policy should be reflected on.

Toss in updating species clause in some form as well - what's the problem with me using Zapdos and Zapdos-G on the same team for instance? They're completely different mons.

Good luck to the council for the rest of the gen because I would have no idea where to go from here to appease people.
 
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