Joycap is banned, thread is unlocked, Kyurem is suspected, don’t be a shithead
-
Snag some vintage SPL team logo merch over at our Teespring store before January 12th!
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, Srn, TPP, and viivian.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
thank god, i was this close to launching a full-scale invasion of the politics thread
With you and what army?
Finally... I can talk again. I was starting to wonder if we'd be on lock for a really long time. 
So, um. Moving on from where we all were last time...
A Kyruem suspect's happening now - I hope it finally gets banned, but I won't harp on about that more (I'll just leave that to everyone else). Instead, I'll ask a question that's been on my mind for a bit:
What do we think of this guy? I've heard some really good things about Okidogi, and it's sitting in an okayish spot on the VR at B-, so I'd like to ask for the OU thread's thoughts on it. How's everyone's favorite dog (barring Zamazenta) doing right now?
So, um. Moving on from where we all were last time...
A Kyruem suspect's happening now - I hope it finally gets banned, but I won't harp on about that more (I'll just leave that to everyone else). Instead, I'll ask a question that's been on my mind for a bit:
What do we think of this guy? I've heard some really good things about Okidogi, and it's sitting in an okayish spot on the VR at B-, so I'd like to ask for the OU thread's thoughts on it. How's everyone's favorite dog (barring Zamazenta) doing right now?
It’s quite a nice check for Zama if nothing else. Aside from that it’s a decent wincon with BU but really wants to have all of Poison STAB + Knock + Ice Punch + Drain.Finally... I can talk again. I was starting to wonder if we'd be on lock for a really long time.
So, um. Moving on from where we all were last time...
A Kyruem suspect's happening now - I hope it finally gets banned, but I won't harp on about that more (I'll just leave that to everyone else). Instead, I'll ask a question that's been on my mind for a bit:
What do we think of this guy? I've heard some really good things about Okidogi, and it's sitting in an okayish spot on the VR at B-, so I'd like to ask for the OU thread's thoughts on it. How's everyone's favorite dog (barring Zamazenta) doing right now?
That thread is already the worst thread on Smogon and makes this one look like a 24/7 Civil Discussion. Your invasion wouldn't make it much worse than it already is.
oh i wasn't gonna talk politics, i was going to colonize it in the name of ou and have kyurem discussion there
The thread gets unlocked and DaddyBuzzwole immediately breaks the rules, putting it in danger of being locked again...
To be on topic, Tera Fairy Assault Vest Toxapex is okay into a couple Kyurem sets like Boots and can be used to scout Kyurem's set 'cause of the high bulk and Regenerator. It doesn't fit on most teams but can be used on some select fat balances as a check to mons such as Cinderace, Darkrai, Dragapult, Enamorus, Glimmora, Heatran, Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Primarina, and Walking Wake.
To be on topic, Tera Fairy Assault Vest Toxapex is okay into a couple Kyurem sets like Boots and can be used to scout Kyurem's set 'cause of the high bulk and Regenerator. It doesn't fit on most teams but can be used on some select fat balances as a check to mons such as Cinderace, Darkrai, Dragapult, Enamorus, Glimmora, Heatran, Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Primarina, and Walking Wake.
Look man all I'm sayin is Joycap only derailed our thread for a few hours while here it got shut down for like two days.
L for el primero smogon metagame
Maybe this will be the first time i get recs and try to kick another annoying dragon out of the tier (this will make Meowscarada marginally more valuable as a consistent Gliscor check)
L for el primero smogon metagame
Maybe this will be the first time i get recs and try to kick another annoying dragon out of the tier (this will make Meowscarada marginally more valuable as a consistent Gliscor check)
I have a question about how the council decides to quickbann vs suspect a mon. does it have to be a super majority with the members to quickbann if its not a super majority a suspect comes in? I know the general public prefers suspect tests because they want a say in decision making and I know the council likes to let the community have a vote but in my opinion Kyurem is a way bigger problem then goug was and goug had a 90 percent ban vote. We are about 3-4 bans away from a healthier meta suspecting Kyurem kinda redundant.
Sorry for the baby rant not trying to get banned
Ok sure I'm not gonna read all posts that resulted to the thread being locked, I just saw the weird Joycap meme so w/e...
I'm gonna be honest here, if Kyurem gets banned we'll finally be leaning toward a great tier but if he doesn't you should definitely reconsider the Kokoloko method njnp stated a loong time ago (here should be a great introduction to it) or at least talk about it, I'd also like your thoughts about it, why not in a survey once again, with SCL going on, yeah I can guess we're not going to make such decisions this early but unless the OU community finally gets the fact that Gliscor
Kyurem 
(didn't read thoughts on it yet maybe it'll get banned this time hopefully) maybe Darkrai 
and every other broken stuffs that shouldn't even be legal in OU, are all a serious problem, we won't get a healthy metagame until the very end of SPL at this point so yeah can u, TLs, share ur thoughts on what u'd ban and what you would not ? I've never really been interested to ask/tell anything here Ima be honest but yeah let's talk.
Though if Kyurem gets the ban he deserve we might get a chance once again to save the tier (this olt was def the worst one I spec/played)
I'm gonna be honest here, if Kyurem gets banned we'll finally be leaning toward a great tier but if he doesn't you should definitely reconsider the Kokoloko method njnp stated a loong time ago (here should be a great introduction to it) or at least talk about it, I'd also like your thoughts about it, why not in a survey once again, with SCL going on, yeah I can guess we're not going to make such decisions this early but unless the OU community finally gets the fact that Gliscor
Kyurem (didn't read thoughts on it yet maybe it'll get banned this time hopefully) maybe Darkrai and every other broken stuffs that shouldn't even be legal in OU, are all a serious problem, we won't get a healthy metagame until the very end of SPL at this point so yeah can u, TLs, share ur thoughts on what u'd ban and what you would not ? I've never really been interested to ask/tell anything here Ima be honest but yeah let's talk.Though if Kyurem gets the ban he deserve we might get a chance once again to save the tier (this olt was def the worst one I spec/played)
What are these other broken mons you talk about? Zamazenta and Raging Bolt, for example, are healthy presences in OU with readily available counterplay in the meta despite their crazy statlines.I can guess we're not going to make such decisions this early but unless the OU community finally gets the fact that Gliscor
I don't believe the meta is so bad that the kokoloko method will need to be applied. It's not the case (IMO) that there are ton of broken mons running rampant in the meta.
Last edited:
Exactly how is Gliscor too oppresive in the tier? I've always felt somewhat 50/50 on it, but what makes it too much for the tier?Ok sure I'm not gonna read all posts that resulted to the thread being locked, I just saw the weird Joycap meme so w/e...
I'm gonna be honest here, if Kyurem gets banned we'll finally be leaning toward a great tier but if he doesn't you should definitely reconsider the Kokoloko method njnp stated a loong time ago (here should be a great introduction to it) or at least talk about it, I'd also like your thoughts about it, why not in a survey once again, with SCL going on, yeah I can guess we're not going to make such decisions this early but unless the OU community finally gets the fact that Gliscor
Though if Kyurem gets the ban he deserve we might get a chance once again to save the tier (this olt was def the worst one I spec/played)
I'm aware that it's defensive presence is immediately felt on any team it's on, I know that much. Is it just a more specialized case where the answers to it are awkward, or is there something i'm lost on that i'm just not seeing?
the answer is both because we're always at least 500 messages away from someone drawing the absolute craziest comparison between smogon tiering policy #9823939191 and irl politics
anyways uhhh. kyurem sucks. i hate kyurem. my stance on this pokemon has not at all changed within the last 7 months.
I disappeared for like six months from this thread, and I was greeted with the same chaos I left in the first place. Man, I just love this website! I am radiating happiness knowing that grown people are still arguing over a monster game designed for children under the age of ten. Just so this is not a one-liner, what do you guys believe will rise in usage following the bans of Gouging Fire and Kyurem? Who do you want to suspect next? Personally, I am expecting Zamazenta, Darkrai, Raging Bolt, and Ogerpon-Wellspring to be on the radar. Maybe Roaring Moon down the line again? We will see.
based on my viewing of tournaments this weekend
Guys that are Kind Of Having A Moment:
Guys that are Trying To Have A Moment But Kinda Suck:
thoughts??
Guys that are Kind Of Having A Moment:
Guys that are Trying To Have A Moment But Kinda Suck:
thoughts??
i could see gliscor and tera blast recieving tiering action in the future but it's far too early to speculate what would change if both were to be banned, let alone if suspect tests for those pokemon will even happen anytime soon. only thing i can say for sure is that gliscor becomes exponentially more irritating should kyurem be banned, everything else just kinda stays the same
I agree, I was just saying that this method still exists as it seems to be forgotten. Personally, I mentioned every other broken stuff that should be legal in OU so others can add mons to that list if they want. After Kyu/Scor/Darkrai, Waterpon would be my next pick. It will have even more limited counterplay, but I’m not speculating for now. Let’s focus on Kyurem first. I’m just saying that besides these two suspects, which are a huge step, things are going a bit slow, ngl.
Roaring Moon will definitely be a serious case to talk about, it’s just a bit early I think, but w/e for now
We end up at lugia/solgaleo in OU discussions regardless :P
(Wanted to respond to this, but then the thread got frozen XD)Since the beginning of February, when Kyurem was not banned even with a 58% support.
At the time, one of the main DnB arguments was the need for Kyurem to counter Rain/Sun that dominated the ladder. Now both Torkoal and Pelipper are not even in OU, Archaludon was banned next, then Volcarona which was one of the best Kyurem ''counters''. The beginning of the OLT brought us the SubProt set, and Freeze-Dry has never stopped being a problem, with a coverage that not even Tera Blast can provide.
Kyurem has been on the rise since February when it was already broken and if there is an exception to the "rule" of waiting a 2 week period for the metagame to adapt, it should be Kyurem.
I was not won over by Ausma's arguments, because I was never exactly against his position on Tera Blast, but I have changed my POV on this. Not even Baton Pass had an outright ban, so the only way we can have a chance at a metagame without Terastal is by gradually de-characterizing it until other players can see its other negative effects. If in a future I'm until present and the opportunity arises, I will take a pro-ban stance.
Supreme Overlord with 135 atk and 100/120/80 bulk makes this Pokémon Broken.
Sucker Punch + Terastal type change makes this Pokémon unhealthy, with unthought-out and only guessable interactions between opponents. We've had enough of seeing Kingambit endgames. Is Encore enough? Please don't. Just wait for someone to start using Mental Herb.
Kingambit is centralizing, it can fit as the last slot in anything other than hard stall. There's no reason not to use it. One could argue that bans and more bans will only take away the diversity of the tier, but when something is too good to be unused and forces counterplay with more than one Pokémon, we are trading a variety on paper for a practical loss in diversity.
It encourages Broken x Broken. I see several anti-Zamazenta posts and several players saying that it can even be broken, but it is a necessary evil. This Pokémon, like Kyurem, has been DnB in the past and is in a growing development and is out of control, but it will have little support if Kingambit remains.
Pre-DLC, Kingambit was DnB even with 55% support for banning it.
After Kyurem and then the adaptation period, I call attention to Kingambit being a problem for the tier.
Honestly, kingambit is one of my mons high up for ban/test, and has been for a while. It promotes unhealthy endgames. If Tera wasn't factored, I think its fine, as most bulky fighting types can check it effectively, or most ID+Body Press mons can handle it. Even defensive checks struggle sometimes, just because it can tera out of it's weaknesses and grab an extra turn to win. Or the defensive checks need to be kept healthy, and a little too much damage, from crits or having to run double duty, and gambit can revenge KO entire teams with little troubles.
I have played around more with Dragon spam mons and ideas. So far, I have found Outrage Moon performed best on a team with slow pivots. It's definitely a viable set. I don't know if one would exactly call it the thing that pushes RM over the edge due to the drawbacks, but it's something. The power is higher than Gouging Fire. It basically always can get 2+ KOs when a Fairy isn't in the way, provided it is played decently. The thing that I think would matter more is how many Fairy or even Tera Fairy mons can counter other RM sets. This would dictate whether or not the counterplay to it overlaps enough.
aha! i knew it, it was kyurem's fault all along
People sometimes run tera blast ground or fire on dd kyurem, but I think tera blast electric can be good to destroy primarina. With this, you can also setup on gholdengo (without trick), you can't be para, and you still hit every good steel type mons. You also have an almost unresisted combo. Tera Blast Ground may be better, but with Tera Elec, you aren't weak to any priority.
252 Atk Tera Electric Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Primarina: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tera Electric Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem is way too unpredictable.
252 Atk Tera Electric Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Primarina: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tera Electric Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem is way too unpredictable.
Tera Fairy does hamper it. Half of my success with NU mons like Vileplume is a surprise Tera Moonblast.
Yes. Vileplume is a near-excellent counter if you catch it right. Let that sink in.