Judging by 1825+ stats, compared to October, November saw a large increase in Ogerpon-Wellspring usage as well as increases in Gholdengo and Raging Bolt usage, so maybe Iron Crown dropped 'cause Tachyon Cutter resists became more popular? Ting-Lu is also in the Top 10 of usage for high ladder in November, so that could be another factor in Iron Crown's drop since it eats Iron Crown's attacks for days and stops Volt Switch.
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #755)
- Thread starter ausma
- Start date
Judging by 1825+ stats, compared to October, November saw a large increase in Ogerpon-Wellspring usage as well as increases in Gholdengo and Raging Bolt usage, so maybe Iron Crown dropped 'cause Tachyon Cutter resists became more popular? Ting-Lu is also in the Top 10 of usage for high ladder in November, so that could be another factor in Iron Crown's drop since it eats Iron Crown's attacks for days and stops Volt Switch.
I kind of noticed this too... Looking at what is brought to tours and ladder recently it looks like people are straying away from trying to defensively beat Kyurem and Iron Crown is already a suspect Kyurem Check since people are using Physical DD more often. We are also seeing new AV mons like Torn (sometimes fairyblast) and Ting-Lu that might be trying to replace it's role while being more consistent as a mon. And people are also exploring things like SPD Roar Molt that help with Sub-Tect Kyurem and random Shuca mons like Gambit and Ghold that can surprise Kyurem. But I definitely still think it's still a good mon though despite the fall in usage.
ninetales sets itself apart from torkoal thanks to encore and healing wish + a much better speed tier. torkoal is still fine as a sun setter but it's generally much more limited in what it can do compared to ninetales
iron crown's matchups into most other top tiers are quite lacking and the pokemon it actually does check have either fallen off themselves or are still able to pressure it offensively via their coverage. it's still a great pokemon but it doesn't really have as much breathing room as it once did
Yeah okidogi is just a fat breaker that checks a lot of things, its very reminiscent of gen 8 buzzwole in that way, plus it can snag some toxic chain poisons
Along with what everyone else said it also doesn't help that kyurem is running tera fire on the dragon dance set which resists steel type moves and at the same time threatens a ko on iron crown
toxic chain was more practical back when okidogi was allowed in UU. guard dog is a strictly better ability in the context of OU, without it okidogi just gets farmed by landorus and can't even 1v1 ID zamazenta
with that being said i think okidogi is an excellent pokemon in OU. bulk up is a fantastic late-game wincon and is very consistent at forcing early-game progress, whereas AV is great at forcing trades vs annoying pokemon like darkrai and iron valiant. it definitely suffers from 4MSS but drain punch and knock off are usually enough to get the job done by themselves
Why did Garg not fall a bit in the latest VR update? I think Garg has taken a fairly sizeable hit recently, both on ladder and in the tour scene. In OUPL, Garg wasn't used once during week 4, and while it did get decent use in week 3 with 3 appearances, it went 1-2 with its two losses being mostly irrelevant sack fodder. Seeing Garg on ladder right now is quite rare, and I almost never see it featured in team ideas from tour-level players. The structures Garg fits on probably don't like the recent trend to webs, nor does Garg itself like sets like SubTect Kyurem or Tera Ground Dnite/Moon rising in popularity. I think defensive tera hogs in general are about as unviable as they've ever been in SV OU.
To be clear, I don't think Garg is a completely worthless pick, it's just a bit puzzling to see it currently in A rank with meta staples such as Roaring Moon, Moltres, and Alomomola. I would think that A- at the minimum, and maybe even B+, would be more fitting for it at the moment.
To be clear, I don't think Garg is a completely worthless pick, it's just a bit puzzling to see it currently in A rank with meta staples such as Roaring Moon, Moltres, and Alomomola. I would think that A- at the minimum, and maybe even B+, would be more fitting for it at the moment.
Nominating Cloyster to be on the VR Rankings somewhere between D and C. It has a good matchup vs all the hazard ground types (Landorus-Therian, Gliscor, and Ting-Lu). It has a great matchup vs webs (especially if you run Rock Blast for Araquanid) and can pickup a couple kills vs HO teams.
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Spikes / Rock Blast
- Liquidation / Rock Blast
I recently used Cloyster in my OUFL game here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-809748?p2
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Spikes / Rock Blast
- Liquidation / Rock Blast
I recently used Cloyster in my OUFL game here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-809748?p2
- Neutralized his webs lead
- Got a second kill due to sash being active
- Would have 6-0'd him if I was Terra Water (was Terra Ice)
So, I looked back at this and literally no one voted for garg to change ranks which is a little funny. I don't necessarily agree with you that "defensive tera hogs in general are about as unviable as they've ever been in SV OU" and I think that's exactly where garg's viability lays. Balance, while not great, really relies on things like garg or mons that are have slightly less tera-hog syndrome like glisc/dozo to have any chance of keeping up with offense. The way I see it, balance benefits more from telegraphed, near 100% usage defensive teras than other playstyles because of the way it answers threats diffusely, rather than the 1-threat-1-(or two)-counter gameplan of stall. This is because you're using HP as a resource in balance games and if you plan on teraing one of your defensive answers it very frequently opens you up to threats from partners. Basically, garg remains as viable as it is for the same reason that we rose hydreigon and latios, who are nearly always tera steeling in many matchups.
It also comes down to garg simply being a better mon than other balance inclusions like iron crown and alomomola (I personally voted pecharunt and tinkaton to the same tier as garg). That being said, if I were to rank the mons within the subranks, garg would be near the bottom of A for sure. A lot of the time it feels like it sucks to run, but is a necessary evil for certain great tusk balance structures like the team that (I believe) lax and ctc made with AV Samu, Zapdos, Specs Crown, Tusk, Garg, Pult.
Another way for me to say the first point is that tera water/fairy garg enables quite a few balance structures while simultaneously remaining a potent threat with curse (even if that is quite rare on ladder). Especially tera water garg allows you to discount gholdengo which has been seeing a small but steady and significant rise in usage (22% -> 25% on ladder from October 1 to December 1 and an even higher usage rate in SCL at 30%). While I don't agree with piyu that ghold is the best mon in the tier, it's probably the hardest thing for balance to prep for bar kyurem, so this value can't be understated.
tl;dr garg is a low A rank for sure but maintains its rank by virtue of irreplaceable defensive utility for balance, enabling several different balance structures despite balance's relative inferiority to other playstyles, and progress-making/threat presentation with salt cure/curse.
He got removed
Keep in mind that you need to provide reasonings and, especially in the case of noms from unranked, replays to support your nomination (no, a Jimothy Cool video would not suffice). Future posts like this will be infracted.
In the top right hand corner, it will show what post number it is. Unfortunately idt there is a way to go to a specific post number.
The long awaited VR update is now here!:
Newly Added
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:iron-crown...
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UR to D UR to D UR to DRises
B to B+ B to A- B to B+ B to A- B- to B B- to B-
C+ to B- C+ to B- C+ to B C+ to B- C to B C to C+-
D to C+ D to C+Drops
S- to A+ S- to A+-
A+ to A A to A- A to A-:iron-crown...
Thank you my broView attachment 695284
In the top right hand corner, it will show what post number it is. Unfortunately idt there is a way to go to a specific post number.
Here is post 755 with all the changes though, for future referenceThe long awaited VR update is now here!:
Newly Added
Rises
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Drops
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:iron-crown...
what a ray of sunshine you are. What kind of comunity is this? am i not allowed to share my opinions here?
what does dia do...
It's a serviceable Trick Room setter (with Power Herb + Meteor Beam) and can be a very situational wincon with CM + Draining Kiss or Diamond Storm + Body Press. It's not particularly good but it's borderline viable on very specific teams.
I voted UR on this thing even though I beat Mada with it in ADPL. It USED TO do exactly what Ruft said it does, and very well. There was a full trick room team with it during OLT that messed up a lot of people. And also the semi-TR team I used in ADPL. However, the main advantage it had as a TR setter was the ability to set up TR on and kill Gouging Fire, which is no longer a factor. Now, I feel like you're better off using almost any other viable setter.
Maybe it's the Uber-drop brainrot but my brain actually went to Dialga when reading the Trick Room explanations that followed.
Is Trick Room still viable in this meta such that being able to set it with any niche advantage warrants a ranking? I feel like compared to Webs, TR is just a really hard sell as a way to flip the script on fast Offensive teams.
Nominating
to B+/A-
What can I say? I'm a Cornerstone stan! Anyways, I want to nominate her to this placement for a couple of reasons.
First, lets talk about it's offensive capability. With SD, Cudgel, Power Whip, and Knock Off , it can shatter the flying types like Zapdos and Moltres(which wellspring can't even ohko without +2), and nearly all the steel types do not like Knock Off. Gambit gets repeatedly chunked if it tries to switch in, and may end up in low enough health where it can struggle to sweep. The dragons are OHKO'd or 2 shot, unlike wellspring which has to run play rough. Zamazenta is not only forced to waste its dauntless shield, but it also hates taking power whip in general. Even Lando and gliscor get chunked, which can be enough to beat it later on.
Secondly, while its typing is very lackluster(it has a thunderclap resistance, so uh...one thing over wellspring), Sturdy is very important. With Sturdy, it can also function as an emergency check with hazards off, which is more of a neat bonus if anything, but its important to consider when theres a out of control sweeper, and you've managed to get rid of hazards(something you should normally try to do with ogerpon anyways).
There are many issues with cornerstone, like being offensively checked by a lot of things, its hazard weakness, and the bad typing. But being lower than Hoopa, Meowscarada, and Manaphy(the cheese machine), as well as Lokix(the cheap cheese machine) is wild to me.
What can I say? I'm a Cornerstone stan! Anyways, I want to nominate her to this placement for a couple of reasons.
First, lets talk about it's offensive capability. With SD, Cudgel, Power Whip, and Knock Off , it can shatter the flying types like Zapdos and Moltres(which wellspring can't even ohko without +2), and nearly all the steel types do not like Knock Off. Gambit gets repeatedly chunked if it tries to switch in, and may end up in low enough health where it can struggle to sweep. The dragons are OHKO'd or 2 shot, unlike wellspring which has to run play rough. Zamazenta is not only forced to waste its dauntless shield, but it also hates taking power whip in general. Even Lando and gliscor get chunked, which can be enough to beat it later on.
Secondly, while its typing is very lackluster(it has a thunderclap resistance, so uh...one thing over wellspring), Sturdy is very important. With Sturdy, it can also function as an emergency check with hazards off, which is more of a neat bonus if anything, but its important to consider when theres a out of control sweeper, and you've managed to get rid of hazards(something you should normally try to do with ogerpon anyways).
There are many issues with cornerstone, like being offensively checked by a lot of things, its hazard weakness, and the bad typing. But being lower than Hoopa, Meowscarada, and Manaphy(the cheese machine), as well as Lokix(the cheap cheese machine) is wild to me.
Cornerstone is just so hard to fit due to its only defensive merit being Sturdy pre-Tera. It has a unique offensive profile and the Rock STAB OHKOing Flying type Pokemon like Zapdos or Moltres while hitting Dragonite super effectively is a major plus (which Wellspring cannot claim), but the tradeoff usually skews in the other direction. You also want to fit all of Knock, SD, and Fighting coverage, but never can fit everything. Personally, I think it’s fine in mid Bs for now