Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #927))

[ausma]

Highvoltage has been removed from the VR council following his permaban and other recent events.

In better news, we are starting a new slate now, so if you have any major nominations you would like to push for, now is the time to do so!

 

[UltraSword]

My current view on the metagame after a few weeks of SPL, the survey, and some laddering.

Kingambit is still S rank as always, but Ting Lu has gained on it and honestly the entire tier as a remarkable sponge and utility piece. Zamazenta remains potent even though it has a different set mix than before.

S- is always rough. I gave Gholdengo a nod over Great Tusk because it works well on some Ting Lu and Samurott-H teams while we are seeing slightly less Great Tusk than before, but both clearly belong here. You can argue for a few Pokemon to be included here or a merger with A+ even, but then I would end up with too bloated of an A+ or A with a big gap between top-end and low-end, so I went with this grouping.

A+ fills out the big metagame defining Pokemon. Most need no explanation, but Pech is a rising star that is dominant on bulky-o as a sponge, pivot, status spreader, etc. while Dragapult finds its way into A+ after being S- for me just because it feels a tad weaker than it once was. Samurott-H is at close to a high point and Dragonite remains role compression god for offensive teams.

A could feel bizarre with Darkrai and Roaring Moon not making the A+ cut, but I think that this divide is fair right now, especially with Darkrai not being the same tier as some A+ Pokemon. Lokix could be a shocking inclusion to some, but it is an elite trade forcer and pivot with some of the best offensive utility between priotity, Knock Off, U-turn, etc. Alomomola was a 50/50 between A and A-, but grouped it here to keep lists even.

A- is the last I will go into -- Iron Moth is a big loser with all of the balance teams picking up, especially with Ting Lu being everywhere. It used to be almost A+, but now drops in the opposite direction. Primarina is still underrated as swapping into it is impossible while Corviknight finds itself less of a bad glue and more of a relevant metagame piece for once. Enamorus sneaks in as a lot of offensive teams feels like they lack counterplay, but can easily be argued for B+ alongside Iron Treads depending on the day while Latios could see A- on the right day I suppose.

Not going to go through lower subranks rn, thx 658Greninja for the tiermaker

I got to ask why is Okidogi in B-? It is probably the best uubl pokemon rn (I would argue better than garchomp). It has plenty of set variety great bulk (especially with av) and 2 great abilities. I definitely feel like it at least deserves B neutral but it could be higher.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Highvoltage has been removed from the VR council following his permaban and other recent events.

In better news, we are starting a new slate now, so if you have any major nominations you would like to push for, now is the time to do so!

I guess rise dogi weav and chomp?

Dogi is a cool poison/fighting blanket check for things kinda like buzzwole with its bug/fighting type that doesn’t fear pecha all that much which is kinda big with pecharunt’s increased usage

and weavile and garchomp usage are going up to a notable degree as well so I think that the meta trends have helped them with pecharunt being all over now, maybe rise weav and chomp too?

Also there is the question of where do we put clef? Opinions vary on it at the moment which makes it really difficult to place on the vr.

 

[Finchinator]

I got to ask why is Okidogi in B-? It is probably the best uubl pokemon rn (I would argue better than garchomp).

I’d have it third. Ursaluna is clearly the best, in my opinion, as it’s an absolute wrecking ball on Veil, TR, and just generally on offense that can fit it. Garchomp I’d have second as we see more people use both utility and SD — it is a Ground type with a ton of utility, but does face stiff competition that eats away at usage prospects. Then, I’d have Okidogi. Could argue B over B-, but have it third.

It has plenty of set variety great bulk (especially with av) and 2 great abilities. I definitely feel like it at least deserves B neutral but it could be higher.

Sure, but fitting it is a headache.

AV is neat, but runs a huge risk of running into NP/CM+ Psyshock on Ghold, Darkrai, or Valiant and struggles with Iron Moth frequently running it as well. If you need your AV Pokemon to exhaust Tera to assure winning this 1v1, then it’s almost not worth it to begin with. And BU Dogi is used much less. It has a pretty good niche (great into Zama, checks all Kingambit one time, spreads status, has Knock, soaks TSpikes) that can work, but you face such big overlap with some other common Pokemon that makes building with it clunky outside of hard offense.

 

[UltraSword]

Also there is the question of where do we put clef?

Personally, I feel like it is kind of meh, but I have not used it that much and I am not a stall player, but I personally feel like Clefable is similar to Meowscarada in the sense that I am kind of shocked it is still ou (though that isn't to say I think Clefable is as low viability wise as Meowscarada).

 

[UltraSword]

Ursaluna is clearly the best, in my opinion, as it’s an absolute wrecking ball on Veil, TR, and just generally on offense that can fit it.

I see where you are coming from, but I feel like it is too slow and the teamstyles you just mentioned are rather niche (though it is definitely a bomb of an offensive pokemon I will give you that).

Garchomp I’d have second as we see more people use both utility and SD — it is a Ground type with a ton of utility, but does face stiff competition that eats away at usage prospects.

No, but seriously, while I do think it is solid I personally think that all of the things Garchomp can do (well) can be done better by other pokemon in the tier. Its scale shot set is outclassed by Kyurem and there are a lot of ground types that outclass it defensively from Ting-Lu to even the fallen off Clodsire. It is also quadruple weak to ice without having the same defensive presence as Gliscor. Of course, Garchomp isn't unviable by any means as it is a great spin punisher, its speed is still pretty solid (which is pretty much the one big thing it has over physical Kyurem) and 130 attack is still really solid to this day. Despite this, I still do think Garchomp isn't quite ou worthy and unless some big metagame shifts happen (like Kyurem being banned) it won't be ou. I could be wrong though it is getting some pretty high usage right now so we will see.

Sure, but fitting it is a headache.

Very fair but I think it is easier to fit than Ursaluna.

 

[ausma]

Hi all, here are my personal votes for the latest slate! A big shoutout to 658Greninja for the tier list maker, having this handy made actually building a visual a ton easier. Ordering was done via the National Dex so there's no viability correlation there, but I'm happy to clarify which Pokekmon I think are the best/worst in a given tier if requested.

I wanted to take a second to go over maybe some of the more extreme picks:

Spoiler

S Rank

If you've been on the ladder or seen SPL at all lately, this Pokemon in the S ranks should not be surprising to you. However I think what makes it truly S-tier and not just S- is how well its set variety diversifies its applications on different archetypes. Red Card, access to options like Taunt, RestTalk, and Speed investment actually make it wildly versatile even though you'd expect its stat spread and role to lend more to bulkier structures. However, Ruination + Earthquake alongside what feels like immortality lets it always exert pressure and force a ludicrous amount of chip damage on Pokemon like Great Tusk which can be very valuable. It is not passive at all, however its immortality lends best to hazard stacking, which it is extremely good at doing since it can find so many turns to work with. You can run it on offense as a lead/failsafe, bulky offense, balance, even fat. It is a gorilla glue that this tier really appreciates having, and it's extremely hard to stop from chunking down your team and finding value in literally every game.

A+ Rank

The Booster Energy Dragon Dance sets are great and all, but keeping it out of A+ is understandable if you are only going on the basis of this set, which most people do. This Pokemon is capable of doing so much bullshit and in a lot of different ways. violet river and I have been going over a lot of this Pokemon's really unexplored applications. Covert Cloak + Roost + Dragon Dance with Tera Blast is fucking crazy, its access to Taunt is amazing, and it has a phenomenal offensive pivot set. The latter in particular is super underrated; it makes a lot of progress and leverages Roaring Moon's Special bulk/solid defensive typing into Pokemon like Iron Moth and Hisuian Samurott that are typically very difficult for offense to deal with. Choice Band/Scarf are both really solid too since Knock Off is the great progress maker and it has great coverage/access to U-turn for midgrounding. This mon can do so much shit and it has ludicrous set variety that is disgustingly underexplored and makes it very worth having in A+ imo.


While I believe Hisuian Samurott is still very worthy of the S-ranks, I think the metagame trends a bit against it right now since Ting-Lu is filling the niche of Dark-type Spike setter a lot more reliably due to its defensive utility, and it doesn't like Pecharunt becoming the more common spinblocker over Gholdengo since Malignant Chain is really problematic for it. Still underrated though.

A- Rank

Tera Steel Psychic Noise Latios is a nightmare to switch into and its defensive utility with Levitate and reliable recovery is really nice. It's had some SPL success and is a splashable offensive pivot/wallbreaker. It's a bit reliant on Tera sometimes but it usually is pretty worth it.

B+ Rank

I am a believer in Greninja. This guy can be a really good win condition with Battle Bond and its nifty Speed tier outrunning most of the Booster Energy Pokemon. The 4A Life Orb set with Ice Beam and Tera Ghost is really all it needs to be a nice win condition, especially since it's still quite good at forcing KOs very akin to its Gen 7 counterpart. Very scary Pokemon that I think is underrated rn.


Garchomp bros are winning rn. I'm really fond of Tankchomp rn since it can spam hazards, soak damage, and spread residual damage with Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin, and Dragon Tail is excellent into offense. It's sort of Ting-Lu lite that trades the absurd defensive consistency for some Speed and more aggressive residual damage spam, which is pretty nice on the right teams. SD + Scale Shot is definitely good but I'm not super high on it right now like some others are since priority and Booster Energy spam are still very alive and well, but I think there's potential on Psyspam which is trending positively rn.

C+ Rank

I know it's a meme for Webs mainers (which I sadly am close to becoming) to shit on Ribombee but every time I try using it now I just wonder why I'm not using Araquanid. The near guaranteed Webs are nice but that's pretty much it since Stun Spore is unreliable, Skill Swap is extremely matchup reliant, and Psychic Noise is hit-or-miss in a less literal sense, on top of the 4MSS you have trying to compress these tools alongside the mandatory Moonblast. I'd much rather have the defensive and offensive consistency of Araquanid which has a positive matchup into nearly all removal options while also having pinch defensive utility which is always appreciated on hyper offense. I also have been using other fringe Webs setters which have felt better holistically to me; Leavanny for instance is a fast Sticky Web setter that is more archetype reliant but actually poses a threat into most removal options and can pack a punch into Pokemon attempting to take advantage of it. It obviously should still be ranked in a respectable spot since it sees consistent usage and is a reliable setter, but I just don't really like using it.

D Rank

This guy is lowkey a giga threat. It's reliant on Tera Blast and aggressive hazard removal, but god damn can it be good with the right positioning. The Speed Boost + Throat Spray set is the one of note. Yanmega's crazy good Special Attack and ability to snowball Speed boosts to checkmate offense and attempts to capitalize on Protect make it both decent at revenge killing and a monstrous win condition into offense. It can also be a single Air Slash flinch away from robbing the game. Crazy stuff.


Weirdly useful defensive typing with Bulletproof, STAB IDPress, and Spikes gives it a decent niche on hazard stacking structures.


It was used in SPL and won. He's a strong guy who is a funny anti-lead and good at taking positive trades.

 

[MC Squared]

View attachment 710796

Hi all, here are my personal votes for the latest slate! A big shoutout to 658Greninja for the tier list maker, having this handy made actually building a visual a ton easier. Ordering was done via the National Dex so there's no viability correlation there, but I'm happy to clarify which Pokekmon I think are the best/worst in a given tier if requested.

I wanted to take a second to go over maybe some of the more extreme picks:

Spoiler

S Rank

If you've been on the ladder or seen SPL at all lately, this Pokemon in the S ranks should not be surprising to you. However I think what makes it truly S-tier and not just S- is how well its set variety diversifies its applications on different archetypes. Red Card, access to options like Taunt, RestTalk, and Speed investment actually make it wildly versatile even though you'd expect its stat spread and role to lend more to bulkier structures. However, Ruination + Earthquake alongside what feels like immortality lets it always exert pressure and force a ludicrous amount of chip damage on Pokemon like Great Tusk which can be very valuable. It is not passive at all, however its immortality lends best to hazard stacking, which it is extremely good at doing since it can find so many turns to work with. You can run it on offense as a lead/failsafe, bulky offense, balance, even fat. It is a gorilla glue that this tier really appreciates having, and it's extremely hard to stop from chunking down your team and finding value in literally every game.

A+ Rank

The Booster Energy Dragon Dance sets are great and all, but keeping it out of A+ is understandable if you are only going on the basis of this set, which most people do. This Pokemon is capable of doing so much bullshit and in a lot of different ways. violet river and I have been going over a lot of this Pokemon's really unexplored applications. Covert Cloak + Roost + Dragon Dance with Tera Blast is fucking crazy, its access to Taunt is amazing, and it has a phenomenal offensive pivot set. The latter in particular is super underrated; it makes a lot of progress and leverages Roaring Moon's Special bulk/solid defensive typing into Pokemon like Iron Moth and Hisuian Samurott that are typically very difficult for offense to deal with. Choice Band/Scarf are both really solid too since Knock Off is the great progress maker and it has great coverage/access to U-turn for midgrounding. This mon can do so much shit and it has ludicrous set variety that is disgustingly underexplored and makes it very worth having in A+ imo.


While I believe Hisuian Samurott is still very worthy of the S-ranks, I think the metagame trends a bit against it right now since Ting-Lu is filling the niche of Dark-type Spike setter a lot more reliably due to its defensive utility, and it doesn't like Pecharunt becoming the more common spinblocker over Gholdengo since Malignant Chain is really problematic for it. Still underrated though.

A- Rank

Tera Steel Psychic Noise Latios is a nightmare to switch into and its defensive utility with Levitate and reliable recovery is really nice. It's had some SPL success and is a splashable offensive pivot/wallbreaker. It's a bit reliant on Tera sometimes but it usually is pretty worth it.

B+ Rank

I am a believer in Greninja. This guy can be a really good win condition with Battle Bond and its nifty Speed tier outrunning most of the Booster Energy Pokemon. The 4A Life Orb set with Ice Beam and Tera Ghost is really all it needs to be a nice win condition, especially since it's still quite good at forcing KOs very akin to its Gen 7 counterpart. Very scary Pokemon that I think is underrated rn.


Garchomp bros are winning rn. I'm really fond of Tankchomp rn since it can spam hazards, soak damage, and spread residual damage with Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin, and Dragon Tail is excellent into offense. It's sort of Ting-Lu lite that trades the absurd defensive consistency for some Speed and more aggressive residual damage spam, which is pretty nice on the right teams. SD + Scale Shot is definitely good but I'm not super high on it right now like some others are since priority and Booster Energy spam are still very alive and well, but I think there's potential on Psyspam which is trending positively rn.

C+ Rank

I know it's a meme for Webs mainers (which I sadly am close to becoming) to shit on Ribombee but every time I try using it now I just wonder why I'm not using Araquanid. The near guaranteed Webs are nice but that's pretty much it since Stun Spore is unreliable, Skill Swap is extremely matchup reliant, and Psychic Noise is hit-or-miss in a less literal sense, on top of the 4MSS you have trying to compress these tools alongside the mandatory Moonblast. I'd much rather have the defensive and offensive consistency of Araquanid which has a positive matchup into nearly all removal options while also having pinch defensive utility which is always appreciated on hyper offense. I also have been using other fringe Webs setters which have felt better holistically to me; Leavanny for instance is a fast Sticky Web setter that is more archetype reliant but actually poses a threat into most removal options and can pack a punch into Pokemon attempting to take advantage of it. It obviously should still be ranked in a respectable spot since it sees consistent usage and is a reliable setter, but I just don't really like using it.

D Rank

This guy is lowkey a giga threat. It's reliant on Tera Blast and aggressive hazard removal, but god damn can it be good with the right positioning. The Speed Boost + Throat Spray set is the one of note. Yanmega's crazy good Special Attack and ability to snowball Speed boosts to checkmate offense and attempts to capitalize on Protect make it both decent at revenge killing and a monstrous win condition into offense. It can also be a single Air Slash flinch away from robbing the game. Crazy stuff.


Weirdly useful defensive typing with Bulletproof, STAB IDPress, and Spikes gives it a decent niche on hazard stacking structures.


It was used in SPL and won. He's a strong guy who is a funny anti-lead and good at taking positive trades.

I'm curious as to why both forms of Muk are ranked alongside each other?

 

[besudo]

Alolan muk is slept on fr fr.It can trade favorables with a variety of special attackers in the tier and come out on top especially when you consider poison chip plus shadow sneak. It also arguably is one of the best Darkrai counters and practically sits on it all game.

Honestly I believe outside of the context of specific stall and hazard stack teams where having stickyhold knock off immune mons is a huge asset to their game plan. Alolan Muk is just better in every other scenario that matters.

 

[ausma]

I'm curious as to why both forms of Muk are ranked alongside each other?

Alolan Muk has an extremely great typing for a Special tank on top of good Special bulk, taking on major threats like Darkrai and Gholdengo, and a STAB combo that includes a Knock Off powered up by Poison Touch. It's good at making progress and has nice coverage including Drain Punch for Kingambit and Ice Punch for Landorus-T, which always prevents it from being passive. Prot + 3A or AV are the way to go.

Base Muk has access to Sticky Hold which gives it a niche on stall teams, especially with the typing being so good into Iron Valiant. It's peaked ladder a couple times and iirc has been used in WCOP and/or SCL once or twice?

 

[SittinGamer]

A+ Rank

The Booster Energy Dragon Dance sets are great and all, but keeping it out of A+ is understandable if you are only going on the basis of this set, which most people do. This Pokemon is capable of doing so much bullshit and in a lot of different ways. violet river and I have been going over a lot of this Pokemon's really unexplored applications. Covert Cloak + Roost + Dragon Dance with Tera Blast is fucking crazy, its access to Taunt is amazing, and it has a phenomenal offensive pivot set. The latter in particular is super underrated; it makes a lot of progress and leverages Roaring Moon's Special bulk/solid defensive typing into Pokemon like Iron Moth and Hisuian Samurott that are typically very difficult for offense to deal with. Choice Band/Scarf are both really solid too since Knock Off is the great progress maker and it has great coverage/access to U-turn for midgrounding. This mon can do so much shit and it has ludicrous set variety that is disgustingly underexplored and makes it very worth having in A+ imo.

My bad if this would be better in simple questions, but is there something similar to a baseline spread for bulky Moon? I'd imagine it hits a specific speed benchmark (Kyu?) and then invests in def and HP as its stupido attack stat will snowball inherently. It seems like a way more dynamic and fun way to use RMoon.

 

[ausma]

My bad if this would be better in simple questions, but is there something similar to a baseline spread for bulky Moon? I'd imagine it hits a specific speed benchmark (Kyu?) and then invests in def and HP as its stupido attack stat will snowball inherently. It seems like a way more dynamic and fun way to use RMoon.

While there hasn’t been any standardization of a bulky Roaring Moon, I’ve had some fun with these:

Roaring Moon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 8 Def / 44 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Roost
- Outrage

Outrage KOs offensive Kyurem and 124 Def Iron Moth, with enough Speed for Iron Moth/Ogerpon-Wellspring.

Roaring Moon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 8 Def / 140 SpD / 88 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Roost
- Dragon Tail / U-turn

Investment lets you KO offensive Gholdengo with Knock Off after Stealth Rock, and there’s enough Speed for Iron Crown. You can go for Ogerpon-Wellspring if running U-turn.

Both have enough Defense investment to tank a Dragapult Dragon Darts from full.

 

[Whaloob]

Rises:

Ting Lu : A+ > S-

It’s all been said already. I’ll emphasize that this thing’s unusual ability to make use of lefties even on removal-free hstack teams needs to be studied. It just stays in so long (and resists rocks) that it heals it all off so often I swear.

Garchomp : B- > B

Most of what ought to be said about Chomp has been said already by others. Flexible role compression mon with SD Quake Edge looking very good into the current meta, hazard stack seeing an elevated presence in which Garchomp can act as a Ting Lu alternative trading bulk for speed/contact damage/alternate type matchups. All I’ll add is that it also makes for a very viable webs sweeper (thus benefiting from webs being good in the current meta), and that it has more potential to run mixed sets than most in part because its natural ground typing makes running a -spdef nature more palatable than for most (since it’s naturally tclap immune). Mixed sets tend to need help with Gliscor in particular, which is…not the best thing to be walled by since it can be pretty productive with openings, but this is not an impossible hurdle to prepare for with other slots by any means.

Ogerpon-Wellspring : A+ > S-

Despite the rise of hazard stack alongside Waterpon’s unavoidable hazard weakness, it is undeniably the most consistent breaker in the tier, if not ever in an OU. This thing virtually solos balance, semistall, and rain, forces tera on most stalls, and vastly transforms the appearance of the archetypes left viable in its wake in a way nothing outside of Zama and maybe Ghold do. An underrated feature of Waterpon is that its typing means that max attack Tusk can only do 45% max in a single hit provided it runs the standard spin/hlr/knock/spinner coverage, thus also living spin into an attack, while always threatening to kill back. This is an obscene opening for something that breaks with such ease to receive, being able to switch into and outspeed the most common mon in the tier and even punish hazard removal, which underscores its own viability on hazard stacking offense teams as potentially the greatest beneficiary of friendly hazards in the tier. Its set variety has only grown with time, demanding immense respect in the builder and in-game, and realistically absolutely falling into the category of “unreasonable to prepare for all possible sets”. And boo-hoo it’s locked into an amazing item and tera type for it.

Zapdos-Galar : UR > D/C-

With a choice band, Gapdos is a rocks-neutral, spikes/webs/tspikes-immune breaker with great matchups into tusk, zama, and stall, outspeeding and OHKOing tusk, 2HKOing Zama while resisting body press/crunch and being neutral to stone edge/heavy slam (and easily tanking ice fang), 2HKOing both Skarm and Corv with CC, and 3HKOing Dozo with either stab. Standard max speed Pecha is a roll to 2HKO with knock if it has an item for the first knock, and brave bird is almost guaranteed (99.6%) to 2HKO, all while outspeeding. Even if its longevity is hampered by recoil/defense drops and contact damage, this is worthy of a ranking in my opinion, especially in a BO/hstack/webs-filled meta where Gapdos can both fit easily and threaten dominant structures. Edit: also Defiant is a really nice ability for taking advantage of teams relying on Pecharunt as their main physical wall/pivot, although you need sub or tera poison/steel to take on malignant chain.

Mienshao : UR > D

Regenerator breaker that shrugs off chip with ease, allowing it to threaten both stall and offense structures comfortably with an adamant scarf 4A set (CC, taxel, knock, uturn). If it were even a tad sturdier I’d bump it up further, but for now I feel it has a small niche especially on future sight BOs.

Drops:

Iron Valiant : A+ > A

Still amazing, just not quite as potent as it used to be. The classic mixed set doesn’t accomplish much into rising star Pecharunt without tera steel, and even tera steel on malignant chain leaves the encore vs switch 50/50 for the next turn. Priority is everywhere as well, and boots is a huge sacrifice for IVal to take on to withstand spikes. Just feels too easy to stave off once and beat with speed control later to stay in A+ imo.

Ninetales-Alola : B+ > B-

I’m honestly not sure how this got all the way up here in the first place. It’s not even undisputedly the best screen setter thanks to Grimmsnarl. Neither screens nor snow have displayed any consistency in a long time either. It just seems to get taken advantage of far too easily (as do the types of sets that find their way onto veil teams) to justify being above anything in B, really.

 

[Seraphyde]

Highvoltage has been removed from the VR council following his permaban and other recent events.

Probably not the thread to ask, but do I even want to know what this is about?

In better news, we are starting a new slate now, so if you have any major nominations you would like to push for, now is the time to do so!

When the next update comes, is there a place where I can view the “whole” VR? Updates only provide rises and drops. I don’t know if the OP is accurate or gets updated regularly.

 

[Seraphyde]

UR -> D

I have seen a few teams make use of this thing and it somehow manages to always put in work. Banded Aqua Jet goes stupid, 2KOing HP-invested Tusk, while Crabhammer OKOes physically defensive G*rg, and CC nukes Gambit. Unfortunately its low speed means that it does not get many opportunities to click something that isn’t Aqua Jet, but when you look at the calcs, there is very little that wants to switch into this thing.

UR -> D

I don’t know why the average person would try to use this, but I have never won a match against a team that had one of these. It’s only useable set is with a Choice Scarf, but it’s Reckless boosted STABs combined with CC are surprisingly good anti-offense tools, maintaining solid chances of OKOs on a lot of threats. Tera Steel stops priority and Booster Speed revenge killers. However, it can’t be higher than a D because, in addition to being pigeonholed into a single set, it is pretty easy to wall.

UR -> D

Choice Scarf + Moxie allows this thing to be a niche late-game cleaner if the conditions line up, basically becoming diet Garmanitan after a boost. I once got swept by one of them by just mashing Earthquake. However, its gameplan can be usually stopped by a surprise Tera Grass or Flying, or SE priority. Usually, because its bulk is OK and it can sometime survive a hit from full.

 

[ausma]

Probably not the thread to ask, but do I even want to know what this is about?

It’s not relevant to this thread. You’re welcome to PM me if you really want to know but it won’t hurt you not to.

When the next update comes, is there a place where I can view the “whole” VR? Updates only provide rises and drops. I don’t know if the OP is accurate or gets updated regularly.

OP is updated immediately upon post.

 

[ooblt]

Scizor: B+ > A-

I've found the choice band set super consistent as a late game cleaner/revenge killer. Like its fellow priority spamming bug type Lokix it can scare out a lot of offensive threats with its strong bullet punch that Iron Valiant, Kyurem, Clefable, and Garg are particularly scared of, forcing switches/teras that are susceptible to U-turn's to keep up momentum or Knock off's for item removal. CC in its arsenal helps it deal with Kingambit/recently steel Tera'd pokemon and it has just the right amount of bulk to always tank at least one hit and kill most non resists after minimal chip. Also has the added bonus of not being as hazard weak as its fellow bug Lokix and having a much more spammable priority move compared to Lokix's First impression. With all the deserved hype around Lokix i want more people putting respect on the OG. Tera steel bullet punches can and will go stupid

 

[658Greninja]

Since I made the template used by Finchinator and ausma , I thought I should chime in my thoughts before the next slate.

> S
The big three of SV OU. Ting-Lu and Zama are both monumental glues for checking special/physical attackers respectfully. I’ll talk more about Ting in the future, but in short, this big ass moose fits on almost every team and makes easy progress with hazards + Ruination. It has been meta defining even before SPL. I almost considered dropping Zama cause of Pecha’s skyhigh usage, but I ran a Tera Steel Clear Amulet Howl set that broke a Molt/Pecha Balance like a cracker and I saw the vision. Ironpress sets are a tad bit overrated, but AoA sets with Boots/E-Belt/LO with Tera Dark/Steel are amazing for speed control and solid offensive pressure (Band is fun, but harder to play). It is the most popular mon in SPL for its splashability and vast set variety. Please experiment with Howl and Clear Amulet, you will not be disappointed. Gambit is still Gambit. Still incredibly consistent as a Sucker Punch bot and a glue. Lefties is ol’ reliable, but Lum variants are the most dangerous since you don’t have to use up Tera Fire to smoke past Molt or Cinder comps. Every team appreciates a Sball switch-in, and a Freeze Dry switch-in.

> S-
Hot take, but I don’t think there is much that rivals the sheer amount of set variety and utility that Dnite has. Top 5 in usage this SPL, a fixture on many Ting-Lu + Ghost Hazard Stacks, can emergency check more than-half the tier depending on its Tera type on top of being a scary lategame cleaner, one of the best Tera Blast users in the format. We’ve moved past Dnite being just an E-Speed bot at this point. Nowadays, Dnite can be adjusted to handle whatever matchup the player struggles with. Outside of your standard DD, you got Roost DD for role compressing lategame cleaning and Ogerpon checking. Tera Blast Flying with either Boots, Lefties, or Sharp Beak to break Balances and power through Zama/Tusk. Tera Blast Fairy is the same but shreds BOs. Tera Ground to dodge T-Wave and power through Pecha. Edgequake to extinquish the birds, Three Attacks Roost for maximum defensive utility and phazing on Ting-Lu builds. Even older sets like Scale Shot + Fire Punch Encore and CB can still pop off. As for Samurott. Stupid ass otter that makes progress everytime it hits the field with the freest layer of Spikes or Knock in your life. Might not be the best setter in the tier (Ting-Lu is still no. 1) but a close second.

> A+
Players love forgetting Garg exists and then get overwhelmed as it freely clicks Salt Cure, generating nice progress. Players are choosing Pecha more than Glowking these days, Garg in question having a better MU into that than Glowking. Waterpon is dropping Encore for Knock and/or U-Turn meaning Curse or ID sets are more consistent. Blanket checks several things in the tier. My fav set rn is Tera Ghost ID + BP for how easily it can snowball certain teams and also spinblock Tusk.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2295043399-eccsdgaxuwytxfqauwflgq0tekppxkdpw?p2
(Garg powers through Hydrapple, a supposed counter, with Salt Cure + BP. Would’ve won the game here had I not chickened out in front of the Samu and just clicked BP.)

While yes, its vulnerable to Spikes, this set also appreciates Spike and Knock support to continue juggling the opp’s team with Salt Cure chip, all while blocking Tusk’s spin with Tera Ghost. TL;DR, meta trends favor Garg where it can spam Salt Cure and do Garg things more easily.

I agree with everyone else that says Moon is A+. Even if it doesn’t outright sweep games, its almost always making progress with Knock, crippling stuff like Lando for its teammates, Gambit, Zama, etc. Experimentation of R-Moon continues past OLT, with bulky Roost Moon, Tera Fairy Blast, and Covert Cloak being the result. The bulky sets fixed its biggest issue of being frail and vulnerable to dying to E-Speed or Sucker post-Tera.

> A
Just to be clear, I still hate Kyurem and I want that stupid ice barney out of the tier, but Kyurem isn’t as splashable as the other DD sweepers in the tier (Dnite, R-Moon) nor wallbreakers like Waterpon. At the end of the day though, its still a Kyurem lmao, so dropping it a tad bit while recognizing how broken it is seems reasonable to me.

> A-
Blanket checks a bunch of things in the tier and provides the tier with a solid slow pivot. One of the few long-term answers to Gliscor in the tier, and can easily click Defog on hazard stack teams dropping Ghold in favor of Pecha. Pair this with something that abuses Ghold and you should be fine.

> A-
Moth is still good for absorbing Tspikes, checking Ghold and speed control, but this thing’s past its hayday. Its offense matchup is overrated as Ting-Lu and Dnite are popular rn on those structures. Speaking of, Ting-Lu absolutely ruins Moth and it’s one of the best mons rn. Moth is hit-or-miss in this bulkier meta and does not snowball as often as it used to. Dazzling Gleam is hard to drop since its reliable coverage into Moon, Zama, Pult, and Dnite, making it more one-dimensional. Doesn’t even have the luxury of 6-0ing Webs anymore cause Araq bullies the shit out of it.

> A-
The more I think about it, the more I realize Latios is cracked. You’re doing something right if you were used 5 times with a whopping 80% winrate in SPL. What an underrated Balance breaker. Draco + Luster/Psychic Noise deals a crap ton of damage to even resists. Bulky Gambit takes 36% minimum from Soul Dew Draco, and with support from Helmet Tusk and Spikes, you can wear down the war fool quickly. Tera Steel Latios checks several things like non-Tera Blast Kyurem, Dnite, Gliscor, Pecha, non-CC Tusk, and Hydrapple while dishing out big damage. Being a Spikes immune Dragon that speed ties with Ogerpon and doesn’t mind SR, Latios is easier to splash than you might think. Definitely earned its winrate.

> B+
Speaking of former OU staples that have been performing well lately, Water/Fighting is a really good offensive/defensive typing in this tier. As a solid pick on Boots spam/Hazard Stack, the best styles in the format rn, it hits many of the relevant Grounds and Dark types in the tier. Also has a solid defensive profile with resistances to Dark moves like Gambit’s Sucker, a Fire resistance, and a Water resist. A solid Gambit/Darkrai check packing hard hitting Vacuum Waves. Highly reccomend ppl to explore more with Keldeo. Icy Wind snipes Dragonite and Dragapult, Modest is cool for stronger Surfs and Vacuum Waves on Boots Spam. I’ve personally been really liking Calm Mind on this. It packs surprisingly decent natural bulk and +1 Surfs, especially with Tera, deal cracked damage. Also with Tera, you can 1v1 one of your biggest checks, Primarina. Great on the structures Keldeo fits on and even on offensive builds like Veil. Try it out.

Keldeo @ Heavy-Duty-Boots/Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Water/Poison/Ghost/Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Aura Sphere
- Vacuum Wave/Substitute
- Calm Mind

> B
Stall is still p good rn, but its placement on the VR is overstated. There’s alot of MUs that this archetype will just lose to to like Samu + Ghold, SD Gliscor, Waterpon, mixed Kyurem, NP Pecha, Prima, Ursa, etc. Dondozo itself can feel inconsistent due to being prone to getting overwhelmed by repeated assaults from SO boosted Gambit, R-Moon, Knock + Rocks, etc.

> B
Outside of its top 1 unboosted speed tier, its hard to justify over Samu/Ting-Lu as Spikers, esp since the former can set Spikes in front of Hatt. As a fast mixed attacker, it doesn’t appreciate heightened usage of Ghold, Ting-Lu, Corv, Tinka, and Lokix. NP sets are pretty shnasty tho but Focus Blast is inconsistent as always.

> B
Combining the niches of Ting-Lu and Lando is cool. Dealing over 30% chip to anything that makes contact is nuts in a meta dominated by physically offensive mons. Not a fan of SD sets. I find Chomp outclassed hard by Dnite, Moon, and Tusk in that department. Just run Dual hazards and Helmet and you’ll be fine.

> B
These two are pretty cool bulky Waters. Washtom has important immunities to Spikes and Ground while being a pivot that discourages Waterpon from switching. Can blanket check a handful of things and being able to annoy Ting-Lu with Wisp + Pain Split is nice. Volcanion is a solid lead into certain teams, bulky enough to trade its HP for burns or heavy damage. Also can pivot into Waterpon’s Cudgel and a burn immunity is appreciated on offense in a post-Gouging Fire era.

> B-
Lowkey underrated in this meta. Alot of Balances are Ting + Pecha and Taunt + NP punishes those builds really well. Its typing gives it a natural Sucker resistance and a Ghost resistance. Would be higher if you didn’t have to choose between being Tera reliant and missing Hurricane.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-817380
(Granted, Goltres swept with the help of Toxic Chain bs, but shutting down Ting-Lu and then breaking through the whole team is impressive. Funny that Webs didn’t matter that much since the Zama outsped anyways lol.)

> B-
These guys are ass, lmao. Poor Basepon went from a solid offensive pivot in the tier to not even being seen anymore on ladder or tours. Not a single player brought Basepon in the first three weeks of this SPL. Turns out pure Grass is garbage offensively when we have so many bulky Grass resists running around. It’s not even a good Waterpon check since most of them click U-Turn or Knock on you. Pecha is more reliable of a Waterpon answer, and Darkrai is a better fast Knocker. The only thing this has is fast Encore.

Meanwhile, Rillafraud can’t do shit to Pecha besides Knock for some chip and U-Turn. Band sets are too easy to exploit, non-choiced variants are too weak, and SD sets suck anyways cause Pecha doesn’t give a shit. Pure Grass is garbage offensively and even with Wood Hammer, its having a hard time breaking things. Imagine needing to Tera to OHKO Waterpon. Oh speaking of that, like with Grasspon, Rillafraud loses to U-Turn and Knock anyways. Only use it for Hawlucha cheese.

> B-
First, Skarm. Passive ass birb that is momentum fodder for a ton of things. It always feels inconsistent at its job due to how common Tera Ghost is. If its not running ID + BP then it is shutdown by Gambit. If its not running Brave Bird, then any Tera Ghost sweeper eats it alive. We have better hazard setters, but if you really need a Ground immune and a Spiker that doesn’t die to Ice Spinner, then Skarm would be your only choice.

I’m not much of a Torn-T believer as some of the people on the council. If I didn’t have to gamble every time I use it, I could see it. Still fine, as it still has its signature combo of Knock + U-Turn + Regenerator, but hates SR and is reliant on AV to actually eat hits in this power crept gen.

G-Weez still has its desirable traits (Unblockable Defog + N-Gas schenanigens) but everytime I use it, I always think, “If I used Pecha or Gking instead, this team might be better”. Its a heavy momentum sink and most of the Spike stacking teams output enough pressure to make it hard for G-Weez to remove hazards consistently anyways. Faces heavy competition from Pecha outside of Defog.

> C+
Got humbled once by Storm Zone running Iron Jugulis and now I’m here to spread the word. Hurricane/Knock/EP/Taunt is really good at forcing early game progress along with spikes. Its Ground immunity and Dark resistance lets it safely chip Ting-Lu down and improve its Gambit MU. Tera Ground Earth Power also lures and murks Bolt.

> C+
S tier design-wise, but in SV OU, we have way better spinblockers and wisp spreaders than we did in Pre-Home/Pre-DLC. Until Tera Blast gets banned and Volc gets retested, Dirge should stay out of the B ranks

> C+
LIVE WO-CHIEN REACTION

Lowkey underrated on Balance. Similarly to Ting-Lu, it has Ruination which is a broken move, along with Knock and Leech Seed to force further progress. Base typing is trash minus checking Samu, but Tera Poison Wo-Chien 1v1s so many things such as Waterpon, Samu, Dnite, Zama, Dankrai, Pult, Valiant, Pecha, Gliscor, DD Kyurrm, etc, that it sometimes might be worth it to burn Tera. Annoys the shit out of offense with Leech Seed, annoys the shit out of Balance with Knock + Ruination. These tools also come in clutch in the Gambit MU by forcing heavy chip vs it.

> C
Coba is a niche Steel alternative to Tinkaton that can pivot, check non-Tera Ghost Gambit, outspeed Kyurem, prevent Samu leads from getting Spikes up with Helmet + BP, switches decently into Lokix, and can 1v1 offensive Tusk with Iron Defense, punishing Tusk for trying to spin away its hazards.

Duckular hit me up on Empo and it really benefits from current OU trends. Pecha hazard stack is really good, and Empo can not only punish Parting Shot with Competitive, but can be a solid niche pick on those structures. Has a ton of role compression with Knock, Rocks, slow Flip Turn (slower than Mola’s), Roar, or Haze. Blanket checks Primarina, Ghold, and DD Tera Blast Kyu which are scary for Ting-Lu teams. Punishes Defog attempts from Corv which Pecha + Spiker cores aren’t great at dealing with.

> C
In a similar vein to Empoleon, Kilowattrel deters Parting Shot and Defog attempts on hazard stack with Competitive while packing an incredible offensive typing (as demonstrated by Zapdos) and a speed tier tying with Darkrai. Could also tech Tera Blast Ground/Fighting to punish Gambit, Glowking, Raging Bolt, or Iron Treads.

> C
Ranking Leavanny here cause Sun + Webs is pretty based.

 

[UltraSword]

This is my personal vr of gen 9 ou. I will not be mentioning every single pokemon but there are a few things that I wish to explain about my list.

First off let me explain what each tier means.

S: Best Of The Best
S-: Metagame Definers
A+: High Level Threats
A: Well-Known Threats
A-: Mid-High Tier Threats (Those were my best ideas for A and A- names lol)
B+: Above Average
B: Average
B-: Below Average
C+: Established Niche Picks
C: Less Niche
C-: Edge of Viability
D: Theoretically Viable (But Usually Outclassed)

Second off I would like to thank 658Greninja for the template as it has most of the viable pokemon in gen 9 ou (imo).

Third off I did not rank every pokemon on said template but one pokemon that wasn't on the template that I would like to rank is Vileplume who I personally think is C+/C (yes, I think it is that good cry about it).

Finally, I will not be explaining each pokemon that I have ranked (or any of them for that matter) on this post due to general laziness. If you have a question about any specific pokemon on the tier list however, please respond to this post below (or if that isn't allowed pm me on my Smogon account homepage).

Anyway, thanks for reading and have a nice night everyone!

 

[veti]

vr

I've been grinding OU after coming back from my hiatus, have some controversial takes to defend

-> A+

Darkspam teams have fallen off a lot and Sucker Punch just doesn't feel reliable enough to be S rank worthy as a revenge killer, if I need priority my first thought has shifted from Gambit to Dnite. Its still an excellent mon, but not something to throw on pretty much any team like you can with zama+lu and tusk to a lesser extent.

-> A+

Thunder Wave is still broken, Gking is being phased out of the meta, the majority of teams rn cannot swap into zapdos long term (or at all) very well. Also just a really nice defensive presence and static yellow magic bails you from lost games. Only really stopped by Rest Ting-Lu, Iron Treads, Gking, Spdef Gliscor outside of stall.

-> A

Hate using this mon, it provides such little utility for how demanding it is in builder, all it does is do damage (admittedly a lot of it) and pretend and fail to check Ogerpon. Kyurem with a good matchup is one of the scariest threats in the tier which keeps it from dropping any further, but I can't in good faith put a mon thats anything but splashable in A+.

-> A

Enamorus cleaves through the dominant Bulky Offense teams like nothing else and can also punish Sticky Web teams really hard with Contrary+Tera. Healing Wish sets are never deadweight in any matchup and there's a a ton of good sets that go under the radar like Modest Scarf Tera Fairy, Tera Blast Rock for Moltres, Lorb DKiss, and Agility.

-> A-

Latios is really good rn, Luster Purge has limited switchins and even mons like Ting-Lu and Kingambit hate being slammed by Draco Meteor, Levitate+Tera Steel effectively gives it permanent boots and gives amazing defensive utility vs scary breakers like Kyurem and Enamorus.

-> B+

Max HP Volcanion has absurd calcs that it lives and its a rare wallbreaker that OHKOs Ting-Lu. Steam Eruption is insanely hard to swap into, Dnite gets burnt and crippled which is absolutely huge for a ton of frailer offensive threats that get scared by espeed, Primarina and Ogerpon can't take Sludge Bomb well, even Galarian Slowking gets blown away by Steam Eruption

-> higher than Sun (B+ playstyle even if I put its highest setter at B because of competition)

I've stolen some sunless wake teams from tours like SPL and they've treated me well, its similar to Ogerpon-W but with two main draws being that it can hold Boots and its Draco Meteor slams all the dragons that answer Ogerpon-W. I def think it deserves a subrank above the sun playstyle itself.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How does Volcanion OHKO Ting-Lu? My calcs ain't calcing

 

[LordThemberchaud]

How does Volcanion OHKO Ting-Lu? My calcs ain't calcing

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 496-584 (96.4 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

It's a roll to OHKO and requires Tera though.

 

[Kadiro]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 496-584 (96.4 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

It's a roll to OHKO and requires Tera though.

The fact that ting-lu survives that 25% of the time is just stupid. What was GF thinking when they gave us this?

 

[Eeveeto]

The fact that ting-lu survives that 25% of the time is just stupid. What was GF thinking when they gave us this?

They thought that no recovery other than rest was enough to balance it out. And it would have been... if they didnt remove almost all Defoggers and introduced Gholdengo at the same time.

 

[Talpr0ne]

The fact that ting-lu survives that 25% of the time is just stupid. What was GF thinking when they gave us this?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 380-448 (94 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Interestingly Tyranitar is even bulkier specially than Ting-Lu. Of course Ting-Lu has a better type and its bulk is non-conditional (meaning it can Tera freely), that's just to highlight my pet theory that Ting-Lu is just a reimagination of DS era Tyranitar as a purely defensive Pokémon this time.