Format Discussion Super Staff Bros Brawl Resources & Discussion thread

[Kalalokki]

Art by LifeisDANK ​

What is Super Staff Bros?
Super Staff Bros is a seasonal ladder format featuring random teams made up of Pokémon created by the staff members of Pokémon Showdown. But these aren't your standard everyday Pokémon; these Pokémon have custom abilities, moves, and even items that do not exist in standard formats! From custom Z-Moves to randomly transforming into Missingno. and even re-rolling your entire team in the middle of the match, these custom moves, abilities, and items have a wide variety of crazy functions that are sure to keep you on your toes. In addition to their custom attributes, these staffmons are named after the PS staff member they represent and post witty messages on their staff me battle, and there is no limit to how many Mega Evolutions a side may use. Other than these changes, it's just a normal Pokémon battle; the first trainer to KO their opponent's team wins!

How do I learn more about this?
There's a super handy article that shows the entire roster available, as well their sets, moves, and everything that is custom made for this metagame!

What's this thread for then?
Basically to discuss the metagame in general and to provide with some handy resources, such as role compendium and speed tiers.

[insert mon here] is broken and should be nerfed!!!
We'll probably not make too many major changes to sets and such, mostly because we've spent a long time playtesting this metagame already. The philosophy of the metagame is to have a diverse cast of characters that are all strong in their own rights, where broken often checks broken. Since the metagame is randomized, you can often get bad or good matchups and that's just part of it all. Feel free to leave your thoughts on the mons though, we might not address most of the concerns however.


Hope you'll have fun playing this work of love from us staff!

 

[Kalalokki]

Role Compendium

Mega Pokemon:

Form changers:

Wallbreakers:
Special:

Physical:

Mixed:

Set-up sweepers:
Swords Dance:

(

)
Nasty Plot:

Calm Mind:

Dragon Dance:

(

)
Quiver Dance:

(

)
Boosting Speed:

Other:

(Physical QD)

(Bulk Up on kill)

(Shift Gear)

(Curse)

(Tail Glow)

(+2 Def,SpDef,Spe)

(+1 SpA)

(Stockpile,Growth)

(+3 Atk)

(+1 Atk)

(+1 Def,SpDef,Spe)

(+2 Atk, +1 Spe)

(+2 SpA, +1 Spe)

(Physical Soul Heart)

(Hone Claws)

(Coil)

Choice item users:
Choice Band:

Choice Scarf:

Walls:
Physically defensive:

Specially defensive:

Mixed:

Pivots:
Offensive:

Defensive:

Entry hazards:
Stealth Rock:

(

)
Spikes:

(

)
Toxic Spikes:

(

)
Sticky Web:

Hazard removal/prevention:
Rapid Spin:

(

)
Defog: (

)
Other:

(Transfers hazards from its side to opponent)

(Clears everything)

(Terrain clears and prevents hazards)

Clerics/Support:
Wish:

Cure status:

Healing Wish/Lunar Dance:

Screens/Aurora Veil/Other:

Anti-meta:

Priority:

(Extreme Speed)

(Gale Wings 1.0)

(Shadow Sneak)

(Holy Duck)

(Ice Shard)

(Sucker Punch)

(Pilfer)

(Bullet Punch)

(Regrowth)

Terrains/Field Effects:
Psychic Terrain:

Grassy Terrain:

Misty Terrain:

Trick Room:

Other:

(Summons Gravity)

(Prismatic Terrain)

(Scripted Terrain)

(Literally Cheating)

Weather:
Rain:

Sun:

Hail:

Sand:

 

[Kalalokki]

Speed Tier Compendium

(Frozen Skin),

(+2) - 656

(Mega, +1) - 640

(Season's Gift) - 634

(+1) - 565

(+2) - 546

(Jolteon, +1),

(Swift Swim) - 538

(+1) - 525

(+1) - 519

(+1) - 492

(+2) - 480

(Stimulated Pride),

(Espeon, +1),

(Scripter) - 478

(+2) - 472

(+2) - 464

(+4) - 462

(+2) - 458

(+2) - 438

(Leafeon, +1) - 433

(Mega) - 427

(+2),

(+2) - 414

(Base, +1) - 409

(Timid) - 394

(+2),

(+2) - 388

- 379

(Adrenaline Rush) - 378

- 377

(Mega) - 375

- 372

,

,

,

- 361

(Modest),

(Jolteon) - 359

- 357

(+1),

(+1) - 354

(+2) - 352

,

,

(Dawn),

- 350

,

- 348

- 346

(Flareon/Glaceon/Umbreon/Vaporeon, +1) - 343

(Gliscor, +1),

- 339

- 335

- 333

(Base) - 331

- 330

,

,

(Sylveon, +1),

,

,

,

,

- 328

- 322

(Espeon) - 319

,

- 317

(+1) - 310

(+1) - 309

(+2) - 308

,

- 306

- 295

(+1),

(+1) - 291

,

(Leafeon),

,

(Dusk) - 289

- 284

- 280

- 279

(Base) - 273

- 269

(+1) - 264

- 262

,

- 240

,

- 239

,

- 236

- 232

(Flareon/Glaceon/Umbreon/Vaporeon),

- 229

(Gliscor),

,

- 226

,

,

(Sylveon) - 219

,

- 207

,

(Gligar),

,

- 206

- 199

- 198

,

- 194

(Level 125) - 193

- 192

- 189

,

(Level 120) - 186

(Level 115) - 178

,

,

,

- 176

(Level 110) - 171

,

- 166

(Level 105) - 163

- 156

- 154

(Mega) - 139

,

,

- 136

- 126

- 122

(Base) - 121

,

- 100

,

,

- 96

- 87

- 86

- 85

,

- 76

- 69

- 63

- 67

- 58

- 31

- 27

 

[Aelita]

help kalalokki is broken and should be nerfed

 

[TheJ3estPenguin]

help kalalokki is broken and should be nerfed

jdarden and morfent are broken too

 

[Chloe]

honestly the only mons i'd really see as broken atm are deg, duck and level 51.

deg is annoying. even with 75% acc sleep+bad dreams+nightmare+leech seed is horrendously broken and to top it all off, mgar would be an s rank mon already without the move. that coverage + that sig is just really silly. i don't understand how people see any other issue in the meta with this still going around. there's also a small chance either side sets up gravity via trickster or dragonwhale and that just eliminates most of the moves drawbacks. even without considering teammate support, it really is an insane pokemon and ruins a lot of matches.

duck is really really silly too but is at least a farfetchd so its not fast or bulky but still, its way too powerful, that signature move is insane as well, even without a shift gear boost it ohkos the majority of the meta. past shift gear its also quite difficult to stop without something really bulky.

level 51 is interesting, it's definitely not as broken as deg but it's definitely too much in a lot of matchups especially if they don't have a toxic user or some other random niche mon. not many things 2hko this pre-stamina/cp boosts, let alone after.

ti is a very good mon but broken is a bit of a stretch, it requires pretty optimal circumstances in order to setup and sweep like other people are reporting.

jdarden isnt too bad considering even after multiple spdef boosts it drops to a lot of prominent special attackers. there's a plethora of ways to play around it but i do understand why people see it as an issue.

morfent isnt broken at all i dont understand that one.

kala is fine generally especially considering things like deg that are much more powerful and fast enough as is.

cc is really good but has enough counter play. same case with dragonwhale and marty.

just my two cents, these are probably controversial opinions but i fail to see how so.

 

[Taptricity]

Is there a possibility that a viability rankings could even happen for Super Staff Bros even though it’s a randomized meta?

 

[Kalalokki]

Is there a possibility that a viability rankings could even happen for Super Staff Bros even though it’s a randomized meta?

I was thinking about it one point, but ultimately decided against it. It's both a randomized metagame, as you said, and I really don't want to rank staff's sets against each other. Sure, it's impossible for all mons to be equally good no matter how hard we try, but I feel like we can try to nerf/buff stuff to be as equal as everything else in the end instead. It's supposed to be a fun, over the top metagame that represents the large variety of staff that we have and VRs typically bring a lot of heated debates, which I feel don't belong here.

 

[MANNAT]

Is it possible that there could be a non-randomized version of this tier as a Pet Mod sort of tier or is that just straight up not happening?

 

[HoeenHero]

Is it possible that there could be a non-randomized version of this tier as a Pet Mod sort of tier or is that just straight up not happening?

I don't think this would be wise on main at least. In addition is specifically designed as a randomized meta so it would need some work to be non-randomized.

 

[DarkBeserker]

so we have been talking almost exclusively about nerfs, how about we talk about buffs?

Andy >_> - this mon is probably the worst mon in SSBB, it has no coverage and its special move: Pilfer is cool but not the most effective as if you know what it does, it is easily predictable. What to do about it: maybe give it some better attacks/coverage or maybe even a better ability then it would be fine IMO

Megazard - this mon isn't exactly very good either, as it is very hard to actually get it snowballing when you get the boosts and it is easily OHKO'd by a lot of things. maybe just give it better boosting moves like cosmic power > Stockpile so it isn't useless

last but not least. A quag to the past - this mon is probably the worst wall in SSBB as it doesn't really wall anything, and if anything runs grass coverage it sorta dies. what I would suggest is making murky ambush hit both types of moves, not just contact but that would probably just make it OP

 

[HoeenHero]

Andy >_> - this mon is probably the worst mon in SSBB, it has no coverage and its special move: Pilfer is cool but not the most effective as if you know what it does, it is easily predictable. What to do about it: maybe give it some better attacks/coverage or maybe even a better ability then it would be fine IMO

Being removed.

Megazard - this mon isn't exactly very good either, as it is very hard to actually get it snowballing when you get the boosts and it is easily OHKO'd by a lot of things. maybe just give it better boosting moves like cosmic power > Stockpile so it isn't useless

last but not least. A quag to the past - this mon is probably the worst wall in SSBB as it doesn't really wall anything, and if anything runs grass coverage it sorta dies. what I would suggest is making murky ambush hit both types of moves, not just contact but that would probably just make it OP

Both being buffed.

 

[pyresword]

Megazard buff makes me very nervous. I already think it's in the "pretty good" range as is, and I also think it's the type of mon that will become ridiculously broken very quickly once it passes a certain threshold. I also don't know how it's being buffed though and there might be a smart way to do it that dodges issues.

 

[DarkBeserker]

Being removed.

Both being buffed.

thank you so much Hoeen! :D what will replace Andy? (miapi possibly?)

 

[HoeenHero]

thank you so much Hoeen! :D what will replace Andy? (miapi possibly?)

Were doing a playtest of an update to the format on monday, more information can be found in the random battles room. Details of about the update will be avaliable monday.

 

[13electrode13]

HoeenHero please pick up your xfix sets, I literally just played a metronome battle

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-990676810

 

[DarkBeserker]

thoughts on the new mons. (Bold = requested nerf, italic = suggested Buff)

Deetah - easily the best of the newcomers, incredibly strong and doesn't even need a setup turn, has nothing really not going for it. its move set has really good coverage, its STAB move is stupid good as its a 140 x 1.5 electric move that has 30% to paralyze. plus it gets PASSIVE RECOVERY, overall this mon is really stupid right now and should probably be fixed

Alpha - don't really know what to think about this one, pretty underwhelming due to other weather users that are often much better like torkool and marshmallon, heck it's pretty frail due to it being an Espeon and its setup bait to some of the stronger mons in the tier. maybe if it got a better movepool it could be more useful

Akiamara - this one is... really bad. doesn't wall anything and really doesn't do its job well as a setup check. I guess it can get some jank kills but nothing is going well for this Mon. please do something with it

Aethernum - Really cool mon, nothing really wrong with it. good job team!

Andrew - Really annoying but can get stalled out by quite a few mons in this so it's not a huge issue, lava terrain is a super cool idea and works well for synergy, sucks that it hurts everything though

Anubis - love the idea of distortion world but it just doesn't transfer very well because speed tying with everything this really annoying and can lose you games, maybe if it set something like a trick room or something that could be cool, aside from that. pretty cool mon, heretics mark is good as it can take some hug threats out of the battle, yet you can give someone a broken mon at the same times, so it's risky really

a random duck - pretty balanced. not much to say yet again!

Averado - might be the worst newcomer, has not very good moves, bad ability, choice scarf really doesn't help it cause sweepers boost speed anyway and can just lock it in a bad move. looking like old megazard. >_>

end of part 1 - 2nd will come out very soon

 

[NightStriker]

I noticed that the Role Compendium and Speed Tiers are outdated. For example, Marshmallon and Alpha aren't on the "Weather"-related roles (and Alpha isn't put as a screens-setter), and a bunch of the Megas aren't in the game anymore, like that Mega Gengar, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Gallade, and Mega Swampert. And some of the "Form-changers" there I don't recognize, like the Eevee and Lycanroc. Also, I don't think some of the special wallbreakers Octillery, Tapu Lele and Sylveon are in Super Staff Bros anymore, just to name a few. Please update the Role Compendium and Speed Tiers so as not to confuse new players (as I got into Super Staff Bros just this season).

 

[HiZo]

I noticed that the Role Compendium and Speed Tiers are outdated. Please update the Role Compendium and Speed Tiers so as not to confuse new players (as I got into Super Staff Bros just this season).

You do have a point, Ill get around to this eventually.

 

[NightStriker]

Is there any chance these sets could be added to SSB?

Weavile

/

/

Weavile @ Life Orb / Never-Melt Ice / Black Glasses
Ability: Arctic Premonition
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- High Jump Kick / Close Combat
- Frozen Claws

Custom Ability - Arctic Premonition
This Pokémon’s Ice-type moves have their priority raised by 1.

Signature Move - Frozen Claws
Ice Physical Base Power: 85 Accuracy: 100% PP: 10 (Max: 16)
If the user moves before the target or the target switches out, this move’s power is doubled.

Hydreigon

Hydreigon @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Belch
- Revelation Dance
- Water Shuriken
- Empowering Venom

Innate Ability - Toxicize
This Pokémon's secondary type is replaced with Poison on switch-in. If this Pokémon has no secondary type, its primary type is changed instead.

Signature Move - Empowering Venom

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Raises the user's Special Attack by 12 stages in exchange for the user losing 1/2 of its maximum HP, rounded down. The user then eats its own held Berry even if the conditions are not met. Fails if the user would faint or if its Special Attack stage is 6.

White Kyurem

Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Instant Fuel
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Ice Burn
- Roar of Time
- Blue Flare
- Focus Burn

Signature Ability - Instant Fuel
This Pokémon's two-turn moves complete in one turn. This Pokémon does not need to recharge after using a move that requires it.

Signature Move - Focus Burn

Status Accuracy: - PP: 15 (Max: 24)
Raises the user's Speed and accuracy by 1 stage.

Alolan Raichu

Raichu-Alola @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electro Ball
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Short Circuit

Innate Ability - Surge Shield
If Electric Terrain is active, this Pokémon's Defense is multiplied by 2x and its Special Defense is multiplied by 1.5x.

Signature Move - Short Circuit

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Sets Electric Terrain. The target's item is replaced with an Iron Ball. 100% chance to raise user's Speed by 1 stage. 20% chance to raise user's Special Attack by 1 stage.

These are sets I created myself. I was wondering, could there be a way to put them into the Super Staff Bros metagame and roster if a staff member is willing to have one of the sets represent them?

 

[HiZo]

Is there any chance these sets could be added to SSB?

Hydreigon

Hydreigon @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Belch
- Revelation Dance
- Water Shuriken
- Empowering Venom

Innate Ability - Toxicize
This Pokémon's secondary type is replaced with Poison on switch-in. If this Pokémon has no secondary type, its primary type is changed instead.

Signature Move - Empowering Venom

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Raises the user's Special Attack by 12 stages in exchange for the user losing 1/2 of its maximum HP, rounded down. The user then eats its own held Berry even if the conditions are not met. Fails if the user would faint or if its Special Attack stage is 6.

Alolan Raichu

Raichu-Alola @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electro Ball
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Short Circuit

Innate Ability - Surge Shield
If Electric Terrain is active, this Pokémon's Defense is multiplied by 2x and its Special Defense is multiplied by 1.5x.

Signature Move - Short Circuit

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Sets Electric Terrain. 100% chance to raise user's Speed by 1 stage. 20% chance to raise user's Special Attack by 1 stage.

These are sets I created myself. I was wondering, could there be a way to put them into the Super Staff Bros metagame and roster if a staff is willing to have one of the sets represent them?

You would have to ask the staff member themselves, and we are not adding sets in the current brawl metagame now. It is too late to do that.

 

[HoeenHero]

Is there any chance these sets could be added to SSB?

Hydreigon

Hydreigon @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Belch
- Revelation Dance
- Water Shuriken
- Empowering Venom

Innate Ability - Toxicize
This Pokémon's secondary type is replaced with Poison on switch-in. If this Pokémon has no secondary type, its primary type is changed instead.

Signature Move - Empowering Venom

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Raises the user's Special Attack by 12 stages in exchange for the user losing 1/2 of its maximum HP, rounded down. The user then eats its own held Berry even if the conditions are not met. Fails if the user would faint or if its Special Attack stage is 6.

Alolan Raichu

Raichu-Alola @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electro Ball
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Short Circuit

Innate Ability - Surge Shield
If Electric Terrain is active, this Pokémon's Defense is multiplied by 2x and its Special Defense is multiplied by 1.5x.

Signature Move - Short Circuit

Status Accuracy: - PP: 5 (Max: 8)
Sets Electric Terrain. The target's item is replaced with an Iron Ball. 100% chance to raise user's Speed by 1 stage. 20% chance to raise user's Special Attack by 1 stage.

These are sets I created myself. I was wondering, could there be a way to put them into the Super Staff Bros metagame and roster if a staff is willing to have one of the sets represent them?

Sets are offered to Global drivers and higher, along with public room owners when submissions are open. Each set is meant to reflect each unique staff member (since their name is attached to it) as well. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the format though, if your a programmer we might be able to give you some things to do next time we open submisions probably summer of next year.

 

[DarkBeserker]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-1009153307

2 xfixs lul
edit: im blind and it was flare.

 

[pyresword]

glitzer popping is currently selecting G-Max moves, which feels unintentional given that this is a gen 7 format.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-1025666654

 

[NightStriker]

I can tell that Sundar has been nerfed, because:

• It has a Serious Nature.
• It has Hidden Power Fighting instead of Focus Blast.

But this mon is still very powerful, as I have sweeped with it several times. Could it be considered that Sundar is just outright removed?