Super Mystery Dungeon (Spoilers abound!)

[sickweare]

Just confirmed by serebii:

"A new game has been announced. Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon (ポケモン超不思議のダンジョン) has been announced for release on the Nintendo 3DS in Autumn 2015 in Japan, the Winter of 2015 in North America and Early 2016 in Europe. No further details have been revealed about this game but keep your eye on the site"
source

I know the last mystery dungeon game was a bust overall, but maybe they improved this time around!

Discuss...

 

[NoCheese]

Proceed with caution folks until there's actually material to discuss. If this turns into a bunch of wishlisting, it will be locked. Certainly feel free to update as more official information is released, though.

 

[sickweare]

One thing to discuss is the big time gap for each region. Europe getting it last is a slap in the face to many Europeans who finally didn't have to wait so long for their pokemon release date, and now they aren't getting it until after Christmas..

 

[Cresselia~~]

Whoa! I knew the Mystery Dungeon has always been popular. (At least in Asia)

 

[Celever]

One thing to discuss is the big time gap for each region. Europe getting it last is a slap in the face to many Europeans who finally didn't have to wait so long for their pokemon release date, and now they aren't getting it until after Christmas..

While, as a brit, the delayed release date is disappointing, I think that it's even worse than it may first seem.

I believe that already there is ample evidence to conclude that this game is going to be rushed. The fact that it was only just announced now at the end of May while being scheduled to release this Autumn in Japan is already worrying as it gives less time for hype to build, though when in Autumn matters greatly. I'm guessing this will be released near the end of autumn considering the winter release date for America. Even though IIRC correctly ORAS had a similar schedule, the game was developed greatly at that point and we had trailers and the like soon thereafter. We only have a logo and a rather odd name for this game. Does this mean that the game isn't in late enough stages for a trailer to be compiled? Possibly.

Furthermore, the randomly delayed release dates also implies a rushed development. In recent times, copies of games are sent to shops ready to be bought before the release date so that games can have a near worldwide release. The fact that this game has such a broad time gap between releases makes me think it's going to be more of a rush to get units onto shelves, which would be hypothetically unnecessary if the development is well planned.

Neither of these are huge indications on their own, but combined this title already has me a little nervous.

BTW, WTF is that name? This reminds me of Super Mario 3D Land and the whole "stick the ending in the middle of the name, it's cool! :o

Edit: Actually, I just had a thought. The randomly blank announcement this close to E3 COULD mean that we're gonna be treated to a show there with playable demos etc.. After all, we don't actually know that this will be handheld. I'll be honest, I sorta assumed that it would be, but it could just as easily be for the Wii U.

Which is good, because then Pokemon fans will have more of an incentive to buy the Wii U than Pokemon Rumble U, which was a huge disappointment. The Wii U needs to do well GDI!

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I only worry about DLC being mandatory with such a short term release...

also HYPE!

 

[pika pal]

I have two main concerns with this.
- Did they learn what people disliked in GTI?
- Is this going to be a Free to Start game like Rumble World?

I'm admittedly less concerned about the second one, since PMD is more story driven than a F2S model could keep interesting, but the generic "Stamina Meter" thing from stuff like Puzzle and Dragons isn't unfeasible to use.

While, as a brit, the delayed release date is disappointing, I think that it's even worse than it may first seem.

I believe that already there is ample evidence to conclude that this game is going to be rushed. The fact that it was only just announced now at the end of May while being scheduled to release this Autumn in Japan is already worrying as it gives less time for hype to build, though when in Autumn matters greatly. I'm guessing this will be released near the end of autumn considering the winter release date for America. Even though IIRC correctly ORAS had a similar schedule, the game was developed greatly at that point and we had trailers and the like soon thereafter. We only have a logo and a rather odd name for this game. Does this mean that the game isn't in late enough stages for a trailer to be compiled? Possibly.

To play optimistic Devil's Advocate, I think there may be an explanation for this in part at least. The other Mystery Dungeons games typically required more time going into their art assets since they had a completely different sprite style, so every Pokemon needed a wholly different Sprite Sheet. For this, at the laziest, they might just be working with rescales of the main series 3D models, which would also save time for generic animations like attacks and damage.

The lack of a trailer is perplexing, but I also do have a thought: they have to be aware of Gates to Infinity's lukewarm-at-best reception, so unless this is them pushing the series to the Freemium spin-off like Rumble World, they probably want to assess the reaction. If people take well to certain things or worry about something else, maybe market around that in a potential trailer. If they are reusing assets just seeing something for it without much story context won't be the most exciting.

I have my eye on it, but I'm not getting "hyped" over it quite yet.

 

[Celever]

I have two main concerns with this.
- Did they learn what people disliked in GTI?
- Is this going to be a Free to Start game like Rumble World?

I'm admittedly less concerned about the second one, since PMD is more story driven than a F2S model could keep interesting, but the generic "Stamina Meter" thing from stuff like Puzzle and Dragons isn't unfeasible to use.


To play optimistic Devil's Advocate, I think there may be an explanation for this in part at least. The other Mystery Dungeons games typically required more time going into their art assets since they had a completely different sprite style, so every Pokemon needed a wholly different Sprite Sheet. For this, at the laziest, they might just be working with rescales of the main series 3D models, which would also save time for generic animations like attacks and damage.

The lack of a trailer is perplexing, but I also do have a thought: they have to be aware of Gates to Infinity's lukewarm-at-best reception, so unless this is them pushing the series to the Freemium spin-off like Rumble World, they probably want to assess the reaction. If people take well to certain things or worry about something else, maybe market around that in a potential trailer. If they are reusing assets just seeing something for it without much story context won't be the most exciting.

I have my eye on it, but I'm not getting "hyped" over it quite yet.

I don't think I quite understand what you mean about the model up scaling. I'm sorta expecting them to upscale models too (hopefully redoing shit like Glameow though) but I don't see what relevance it has to the games being released with such a broad range of release dates.

I'm also unsure how feasibly they can assess the reactions without doing a survey or something. Wouldn't that require hiring a bunch of people to browse the Internet all day? Generally things like feedback on Nintendo Club or the Smash Ballot are done for feedback...

If this game goes down the F2P route I will be severely disappointed, and the worst part is is that I could see it happening. Something like a lives system would absolutely kill the game...

 

[Codraroll]

Well, my first thought was "I think there's a reason why this wasn't announced at E3...". Either, they'll have a demo ready to play at the expo, and/or they've decided to clear the field for another game to take home the entire hype quota of the Pokémon fanbase. Better to give SMD some time in the limelight now, and then have something else "take over" from E3 onwards. Pokémon is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, so I'm pretty sure they'll feature something there. If they didn't have anything, they would have postponed this announcement to use instead.

Alas, any details on this announcement - or eventual future announcements - would fall into the realm of baseless speculation.

Which means we'll have a feast with it over in #OI, our IRC channel. Keep it off the forums, though.

 

[Lady Vader]

I feel like it is likely to be another game like Rumble World and Shuffle. Let us pray that we are wrong.

 

[Kurona]

I'll be honest, I sorta assumed that it would be, but it could just as easily be for the Wii U.

Which is good, because then Pokemon fans will have more of an incentive to buy the Wii U than Pokemon Rumble U, which was a huge disappointment. The Wii U needs to do well GDI!

Serebii's saying it's for the 3DS, so...

 

[pika pal]

I don't think I quite understand what you mean about the model up scaling. I'm sorta expecting them to upscale models too (hopefully redoing shit like Glameow though) but I don't see what relevance it has to the games being released with such a broad range of release dates.

I mean more they could use the same models as the main games and change their size scale to fit in Mystery Dungeon, as opposed to having to how the 2D games meant they had to make new sprite sheets for every Pokemon to match the art style and size scale of Mystery Dungeon.

That said, as I noted, I'm still worrying more so over the possibility of a F2P model, which, while I tolerated in Rumble World, I found its shortcomings reared their head tremendously in the late game.

 

[noobcubed]

Ugh, delaying the European release until after Christmas is like Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker all over again. Get your shit together Nintendo.

Not that I have ever played Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. I have downloaded the rom for the original game (since everyone tells me it's the best of the series), but haven't got round to playing it yet.

 

[Karxrida]

It's extremely likely that Mega Evolution will be available in this installment. It should be interesting to see how they justify it in a universe without humans (assuming we're still getting a plot).

 

[Phione]

It's extremely likely that Mega Evolution will be available in this installment. It should be interesting to see how they justify it in a universe without humans (assuming we're still getting a plot(.

I certainly hope we're getting a plot. Nobody plays Pokémon for the plot, but Explorers actually had a great, extremely well-written one, and at least Gates to Infinity tried pretty hard. It would be a shame to see that go away.

 

[Karxrida]

Come to think of it, how would they implement the mechanics of Mega Evolution? It's supposed to only last for a single battle in the main series, yet these games are roguelike dungeon crawlers that can have up to 99 floors in a dungeon. Would they implement a turn limit on each floor, let you only use it on a single floor so you only use it as a panic button, or just let you be Mega'd for the entire dungeon?

 

[Zowayix]

Not that I have ever played Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. I have downloaded the rom for the original game (since everyone tells me it's the best of the series), but haven't got round to playing it yet.

Sky is arguably the best in the series. PMD2 has a significantly more involved plot than PMD1 (though both are great) and Sky is essentially the updated re-release of Time and Darkness (like how Platinum is to D/P).

 

[Ondore]

If SMD was going to be a F2S game, it would launch simultaneously in all territories and probably in a week from now, instead of fall/winter/next year.

 

[The Manifold Curiosity]

I might fall too much into baseless speculation here and if so sorry (I have tried to give sensible reasoning for my speculation), but I have given the concept of Mega Evolution in mystery dungeon a bit of thought and I see a big issue that GF needs to address.

As we all know at the start of each MD game they give you a personality test and from that you become a certain Pokemon. Usually that Pokemon is a traditional starter and given we now have 18 starter options over the last 6 generations I don't think they will add too many more other options (e.g Eevee). Mega Evolutions are probably the best thing GF have done in a long time and they know from fans how incredibly popular they are. To not include them in this game would be madness and would harm sales a lot. The problem right now is that only 6 out of the 18 starters can Mega Evolve. If they keep it this way then there is favouritism to gen 1 and 3 starters as they can go Mega while the rest can't. This would again be bad for the game as each starter is effectively not equal and people will complain about this (and do the personality test over and over until they get a starter that can go Mega).

So GF can go down 3 routes really to cover their backs and maintain balance between starter Pokemon. They can either have no Megas, which as I said before is a very bad idea. They could have it so that each Pokemon you can be can go Mega, so then you would have Gen 1 +3 starters + others so all of the other Traditional starters are left out (again not a great option but better than before). Or you could give each of the traditional starters brand new Mega Evolutions that have never been seen before (effectively showcasing them before Pokemon Z comes out) which IMO would be a brilliant marketing tactic (as we would all want the game then!) and logically the best solution.

I could be wrong of course, but the fact a MD game has come out in gen 6 makes Megas for all traditional starters a strong possibility. Any other option will create major disappointment among fans.

 

[Codraroll]

^There is a fourth route, I believe: Include all Megas but the starters, to prevent some starters from being better than the others. That is even assuming that the starter Pokémon you get to pick in SMD include the full roster of starters from the main series games.

I think your "third route" has merit, though, but I'm not sure if Game Freak would create Megas for a full dozen starters in one batch. That would be a lot to introduce all at once, and potentially draining that well of marketing potential dry in one fell swoop. I believe they want to hold Mega evolutions of starters back and portion them out slowly, as they are the most marketable type of Megas.

Either way, I think we will know soon enough, probably more details will be announced around E3.

 

[Kurona]

It's extremely likely that Mega Evolution will be available in this installment. It should be interesting to see how they justify it in a universe without humans (assuming we're still getting a plot).

I think it's pretty easy to justify, in all honesty - considering the Pokémon you play as is always a human that became a Pokémon. So in that way, any Pokémon that can mega evolve who is currently in the party with you could mega evolve (given they're holding the appropriate stone).

 

[Karxrida]

If previous games are any indication, GF is not developing this and won't have direct involvement. I highly doubt we'd get new Megas regardless, as that would be something saved for a main series release.

 

[Brytmonlee]

As we all know at the start of each MD game they give you a personality test and from that you become a certain Pokemon.

Actually, in GTI, you could just pick your starter Pokemon and even then it was just relegated to Unova starter's, Pikachu, and Axew, and seeing as though it is the newest one in the series, either could be used. Personality if GTI's popularity comes into question, or just pick if they want to keep the trend going.

 

[pika pal]

I don't think we'll be getting new Megas in this game, but if I had to guess, I don't think it will impact the game balance too drastically for the main campaign.

In Explorers, you were stuck at your base form until you essentially cleared the entire story, while all your generic team members could evolve. Directly (prevent player Mega) or indirectly (prevent evolving to a Mega form), until Post-Game, the player just might not be able to Mega Evolve themselves before a point where they could use Pokemon besides the starter and partner, at which point the balance of what has Megas would be irrelevant.

Of course, this is assuming they fully think this whole point through in the first place. The spin-offs aren't something I credit for balance in this series (Conquest, despite being my favorite, clearly favored some Pokemon over others). Hell, look at Rescue Team: Machop, Cubone, and the Grass Starters were all less effective choices for main game because every big boss bar Groudon had a resisted their STABs or Normal moves (Skarmory, Team Meanies Gengar, or in general for Machop. Zapdos, Moltres, Articuno and Rayquaza). On any run where I played as them, I pretty much had to partner with Pikachu to avoid excessive level grinding for the bosses during the fugitive section.

And to go back to my first point, PMD pretty much dropped your starters into "generic" territory after the main plot as well. By the time your starters could evolve, you're past a point where they are mandatory to bring for the notable dungeons. While it might not be a popular decision, they could do the same with the main starters for SMD and relgate Mega Evolution to teammates until post-game.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I don't think we'll be getting new Megas in this game, but if I had to guess, I don't think it will impact the game balance too drastically for the main campaign.

But is there anything else that made them choose not to leak pictures of the games?