Here's how to do a "NEw moveset!" thread, guys.
As you can see in the Toxicroak analysis, it has four sets: Swords Dance, Choice Band, Rain Dance and Nasty Plot, the latter two I'd consider somewhere between "unorthodox" and "novel". So, I'd say this set wouldn't be farfetched to put in at all.
Toxicroak @ Leftovers
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Move 4
Dry Skin
I used this thing because I needed a Heracross counter, and Toxicroak happens to resist Megahorn, Close Combat, Pursuit, Night Slash AND Stone Edge. This meant I had to run an extremely defensive spread (somewhere among the lines of max HP, near max Def, 4 Spd, some in Atk and Adamant/Impish). Obviously, this Toxicroak set makes an even worse counter to Heracross than, say, the Swords Dancer, because it's going to eat its own HP for Substitute so often. Therefore, the spreads I'd recommend are either:
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd - Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd - Adamant
Simple but true. You either take more hits, or pump Spd hoping that you have to take less of them. They both have pros and cons, as I'm sure you're aware of: max HP Toxicroak obviously makes better Substitutes. The weak ones have 308 HP, so 77 HP Subs, the stronger ones have ~92. Plus, a slower Toxicroak will have an easier time setting up the Substitute to begin with, since he will survive more hits, and if he's slower he can set it up as long as the opponent leaves him with more than 25% of his HP.
The faster ones will be better at blocking status, or protecting themselves against a move that would not break the Substitute with either spread. They will also more commonly outspeeds opponents they'd use the fourth move on, but we'll go in-depth on that later.
Now, for the actual use of the set, its like a lot of mixed attackers have been played in the past. Get in on something that cannot hurt you or, even better, something that can hurt you but doesn't dare. A good example of the latter is Blissey, who will not know you need a Substitute to actually hurt her. Blissey switch-ins can usually be seen from a mile away, so with some prediction you don't even have to risk eating Sing/Thunder Wave. And if Blissey stays in it pretty much always uses one of those, so Substitute blocks that.
But if you can't do all that, feel free to try and come in on:
Weezing
Sludge Bomb from minimum Special Attack Weezing:
206 attack vs 166 defense, 90 power(* 0.5): 40 - 47
Won't break your Substitute and you can't get poisoned. So as long as Weezing doesn't have Fire Blast, you can set up on it. Just don't come into Will-o-Wisp.
Waters
Dry Skin is essentially Water Absorb except you become weak to Fire. Everything else will rarely happen. That means that a Water type with only a Water-move to damage things with, such as Rest/Sleep Talk/Toxic/Surf Milotic, cannot hurt Toxicroak at all.
Don't bother to repeat Subbing if they can Ice Beam - a 236 Special Attack Ice Beam will break even a max HP Substitute every time. And that is being generous to Toxicroak by assuming they don't have more for more bulkier Salamence versions or Garchomp. Obviously, because of this, Starmie is out of your league too, since Thunderbolt will do just the same.
236 attack vs 166 defense, 95 power: 97 - 115
Fighters
Though Toxicroak isn't very defensively oriented at all, it can set up against Fighters if needbe. If that one free hit (between Focus Punch and Sucker Punch) is all you need to break through, then you can obviously afford to set up against one of these.
Medicham
Choice Band, max Attack, Adamant Brick Break on weak Toxicroak
480 attack vs 166 defense, 75 power(* 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.5), 308 max HP: 56.82% - 67.21%
Choice Band, max Attack, Adamant Brick Break on strong Toxicroak
480 attack vs 166 defense, 75 power(* 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.5), 370 max HP: 47.3% - 55.95%
Heracross
Adamant, max Attack Close Combat/Megahorn on weak Toxicroak
383 attack vs 166 defense, 120 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 308 max HP: 48.38% - 56.82%
Adamant, max Attack Close Combat/Megahorn on strong Toxicroak
383 attack vs 166 defense, 120 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 370 max HP: 40.27% - 47.3%
Obviously, you cannot tank at all against Medicham and Heracross, and both of them resist Focus Punch. These calculates are only meant to illustrate that without considerable defensive investment, Toxicroak does not counter them. However, he can take a hit and deal :some: damage back when they are weakened, in case you need to "blast a hole", so to speak.
Then Focus Punch comes looking around the corner. 342 Attack, 150 base power, STAB and effective against 5 different types is nothing to ignore.
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Medicham
342 attack vs 186 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 262 max HP: 56.49% - 66.41%
Toxicroak Sucker Punching 4 HP/0 Def Medicham
342 attack vs 186 defense, 80 power, 262 max HP: 40.46% - 47.71%
This is the brilliance of Sucker Punch. Toxicroak can go head to head with a Medicham that only took 4% damage before as long as Medicham is not using Psycho Cut. This trick doesn't work as well on Heracross, who is bulkier and resists Dark as well.
Toxicroak Focus Punch Punching 4 HP/0 Def Heracross
342 attack vs 186 defense, 150 power(* 0.5 * 1.5), 302 max HP: 49.01% - 57.62%
Now, some other calcs for you to enjoy...
Toxicroak Focus Punching 334 HP/400 Def (stat) Skarmory
342 attack vs 400 defense, 150 power(* 1.5), 334 max HP: 41.32% - 48.8%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 334 HP/400 Def (stat) Roosting Skarmory
342 attack vs 400 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 2), 334 max HP: 82.93% - 97.9%
If your opponent is switching in something that relies on status to harm you and figures he cannot do anything, he might go to Salamence/Gyarados. But since you have a Substitute up, that stops Intimidate from working. Of course, they may switch those in straight away...
Toxicroak Focus Punching Bulky Gyarados (386 HP/239 Def)
342 attack vs 239 defense, 150 power(* 0.5 * 1.5), 386 max HP: 30.05% - 35.23%
Toxicroak Focus Punching the same Gyarados after Intimidate
228 attack vs 239 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 386 max HP: 19.95% - 23.58%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Salamence before Intimidate
342 attack vs 196 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 332 max HP: 42.17% - 49.7%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Salamence after Intimidate
228 attack vs 196 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 332 max HP: 28.31% - 33.43%
Indeed, you'll want Stealth Rock up if you plan to get past these two.
You'll notice that I haven't discussed the mysterious Move 4 yet. The reason for that is because I could put move / move / move / move / move / move WOW TOXICROAK HAS A LOT OF MOVES there, but that looks ugly, so I'll discuss your options here instead.
Move 4: X-Scissor
This is the move I used first. I planned to use it on Celebi which I thought was still popular, but I only encountered one in my battles and Toxicroak never faced it. Instead, I ended up using it on Starmie whenever it was Recovering or switching in.
Toxicroak Sucker Punching OR X-Scissoring 252 HP/176 Def Starmie
342 attack vs 250 defense, 80 power(* 2), 324 max HP: 48.77% - 57.41%
Toxicroak doing the same on 252 HP/96 Def Starmie
342 attack vs 230 defense, 80 power(* 2), 324 max HP: 52.78% - 62.35%
Starmie is pretty much always going to 3HKO you with Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, but it can't do that if you keep X-Scissoring. It won't do jack to Slowbro and it is of no help to Fliers (Gliscor, Salamence, Gyarados), but as said, it helps for Celebi.
Toxicroak using X-Scissor on 404 HP/270 Def (stat) Celebi
342 attack vs 270 defense, 80 power(* 4), 404 max HP: 73.02% - 86.14%
Move 4: Hidden Power Ice
I know what you're thinking. I have Adamant, no Special Attack EVs and no STAB. What is that going to hurt?
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 252 HP/0 SpDef Gliscor
187 attack vs 186 defense, 70 power(* 4), 354 max HP: 58.47% - 68.93%
Now, Gliscor is faster than Toxicroak, so you'll always only be hitting on it behind a Substitute or you'll get Earthquaked. You'll need the speedy version of Toxicroak if you plan on bickering with it one on one, because Gliscor can Roost to become only 2x weak to Ice for a turn and outlast you.
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 4 HP/0 SpDef Salamence
187 attack vs 196 defense, 70 power(* 4), 332 max HP: 59.34% - 69.88%
Pretty much all Salamence with more HP will have Roost, or it must be a rare bulky Dragon Dancer without Roost. If they have Roost, they'll win anyway unless weakened. Anyway, a surprising amount of damage.
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 4 HP/0 SpDef Garchomp
187 attack vs 206 defense, 70 power(* 4), 358 max HP: 52.23% - 61.45%
Toxicroak using Focus Punch on 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp
342 attack vs 226 defense, 150 power(* 1.5), 358 max HP: 68.16% - 80.45%
As you can see, it is always preferable to hit Garchomp with Focus Punch if you can rather than Hidden Power Ice. If it is more bulky than this, it likely has HP, and I'd likely put more SpDef on it too if I was aiming to survive specific Ice Beams. Plus, not using Hidden Power Ice keeps a moveslot hidden (you'll use it less often than Focus Punch), so you can bluff one of the other options such as X-Scissor or Stone Edge.[/b]
Move 4: Stone Edge
Anticlimatic ending, but Stone Edge is probably the most solid option, so you can hit those fliers.
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 4 HP/0 Def Salamence before Intimidate
342 attack vs 196 defense, 100 power(* 2), 332 max HP: 75.6% - 89.16%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 4 HP/0 Def Salamence after Intimidate
228 attack vs 196 defense, 100 power(* 2), 332 max HP: 50.6% - 59.64%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on Bulky Gyarados before Intimidate
342 attack vs 239 defense, 100 power(* 2), 386 max HP: 53.63% - 63.21%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on Bulky Gyarados after Intimidate
228 attack vs 239 defense, 100 power(* 2), 386 max HP: 36.01% - 42.49%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 252 HP/220 Def Zapdos
342 attack vs 261 defense, 100 power(* 2), 384 max HP: 49.48% - 58.33%
That's it. My point is not that Toxicroak is underrated or that this set is the best. I'm simply pointing out with evidence and facts what it can and can't do, and my conclusion would be that this set would be good to add in its analysis.
As you can see in the Toxicroak analysis, it has four sets: Swords Dance, Choice Band, Rain Dance and Nasty Plot, the latter two I'd consider somewhere between "unorthodox" and "novel". So, I'd say this set wouldn't be farfetched to put in at all.
Toxicroak @ Leftovers
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Move 4
Dry Skin
I used this thing because I needed a Heracross counter, and Toxicroak happens to resist Megahorn, Close Combat, Pursuit, Night Slash AND Stone Edge. This meant I had to run an extremely defensive spread (somewhere among the lines of max HP, near max Def, 4 Spd, some in Atk and Adamant/Impish). Obviously, this Toxicroak set makes an even worse counter to Heracross than, say, the Swords Dancer, because it's going to eat its own HP for Substitute so often. Therefore, the spreads I'd recommend are either:
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd - Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd - Adamant
Simple but true. You either take more hits, or pump Spd hoping that you have to take less of them. They both have pros and cons, as I'm sure you're aware of: max HP Toxicroak obviously makes better Substitutes. The weak ones have 308 HP, so 77 HP Subs, the stronger ones have ~92. Plus, a slower Toxicroak will have an easier time setting up the Substitute to begin with, since he will survive more hits, and if he's slower he can set it up as long as the opponent leaves him with more than 25% of his HP.
The faster ones will be better at blocking status, or protecting themselves against a move that would not break the Substitute with either spread. They will also more commonly outspeeds opponents they'd use the fourth move on, but we'll go in-depth on that later.
Now, for the actual use of the set, its like a lot of mixed attackers have been played in the past. Get in on something that cannot hurt you or, even better, something that can hurt you but doesn't dare. A good example of the latter is Blissey, who will not know you need a Substitute to actually hurt her. Blissey switch-ins can usually be seen from a mile away, so with some prediction you don't even have to risk eating Sing/Thunder Wave. And if Blissey stays in it pretty much always uses one of those, so Substitute blocks that.
But if you can't do all that, feel free to try and come in on:
Weezing
Sludge Bomb from minimum Special Attack Weezing:
206 attack vs 166 defense, 90 power(* 0.5): 40 - 47
Won't break your Substitute and you can't get poisoned. So as long as Weezing doesn't have Fire Blast, you can set up on it. Just don't come into Will-o-Wisp.
Waters
Dry Skin is essentially Water Absorb except you become weak to Fire. Everything else will rarely happen. That means that a Water type with only a Water-move to damage things with, such as Rest/Sleep Talk/Toxic/Surf Milotic, cannot hurt Toxicroak at all.
Don't bother to repeat Subbing if they can Ice Beam - a 236 Special Attack Ice Beam will break even a max HP Substitute every time. And that is being generous to Toxicroak by assuming they don't have more for more bulkier Salamence versions or Garchomp. Obviously, because of this, Starmie is out of your league too, since Thunderbolt will do just the same.
236 attack vs 166 defense, 95 power: 97 - 115
Fighters
Though Toxicroak isn't very defensively oriented at all, it can set up against Fighters if needbe. If that one free hit (between Focus Punch and Sucker Punch) is all you need to break through, then you can obviously afford to set up against one of these.
Medicham
Choice Band, max Attack, Adamant Brick Break on weak Toxicroak
480 attack vs 166 defense, 75 power(* 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.5), 308 max HP: 56.82% - 67.21%
Choice Band, max Attack, Adamant Brick Break on strong Toxicroak
480 attack vs 166 defense, 75 power(* 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.5), 370 max HP: 47.3% - 55.95%
Heracross
Adamant, max Attack Close Combat/Megahorn on weak Toxicroak
383 attack vs 166 defense, 120 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 308 max HP: 48.38% - 56.82%
Adamant, max Attack Close Combat/Megahorn on strong Toxicroak
383 attack vs 166 defense, 120 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 370 max HP: 40.27% - 47.3%
Obviously, you cannot tank at all against Medicham and Heracross, and both of them resist Focus Punch. These calculates are only meant to illustrate that without considerable defensive investment, Toxicroak does not counter them. However, he can take a hit and deal :some: damage back when they are weakened, in case you need to "blast a hole", so to speak.
Then Focus Punch comes looking around the corner. 342 Attack, 150 base power, STAB and effective against 5 different types is nothing to ignore.
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Medicham
342 attack vs 186 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 262 max HP: 56.49% - 66.41%
Toxicroak Sucker Punching 4 HP/0 Def Medicham
342 attack vs 186 defense, 80 power, 262 max HP: 40.46% - 47.71%
This is the brilliance of Sucker Punch. Toxicroak can go head to head with a Medicham that only took 4% damage before as long as Medicham is not using Psycho Cut. This trick doesn't work as well on Heracross, who is bulkier and resists Dark as well.
Toxicroak Focus Punch Punching 4 HP/0 Def Heracross
342 attack vs 186 defense, 150 power(* 0.5 * 1.5), 302 max HP: 49.01% - 57.62%
Now, some other calcs for you to enjoy...
Toxicroak Focus Punching 334 HP/400 Def (stat) Skarmory
342 attack vs 400 defense, 150 power(* 1.5), 334 max HP: 41.32% - 48.8%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 334 HP/400 Def (stat) Roosting Skarmory
342 attack vs 400 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 2), 334 max HP: 82.93% - 97.9%
If your opponent is switching in something that relies on status to harm you and figures he cannot do anything, he might go to Salamence/Gyarados. But since you have a Substitute up, that stops Intimidate from working. Of course, they may switch those in straight away...
Toxicroak Focus Punching Bulky Gyarados (386 HP/239 Def)
342 attack vs 239 defense, 150 power(* 0.5 * 1.5), 386 max HP: 30.05% - 35.23%
Toxicroak Focus Punching the same Gyarados after Intimidate
228 attack vs 239 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 386 max HP: 19.95% - 23.58%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Salamence before Intimidate
342 attack vs 196 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 332 max HP: 42.17% - 49.7%
Toxicroak Focus Punching 4 HP/0 Def Salamence after Intimidate
228 attack vs 196 defense, 150 power(* 1.5 * 0.5), 332 max HP: 28.31% - 33.43%
Indeed, you'll want Stealth Rock up if you plan to get past these two.
You'll notice that I haven't discussed the mysterious Move 4 yet. The reason for that is because I could put move / move / move / move / move / move WOW TOXICROAK HAS A LOT OF MOVES there, but that looks ugly, so I'll discuss your options here instead.
Move 4: X-Scissor
This is the move I used first. I planned to use it on Celebi which I thought was still popular, but I only encountered one in my battles and Toxicroak never faced it. Instead, I ended up using it on Starmie whenever it was Recovering or switching in.
Toxicroak Sucker Punching OR X-Scissoring 252 HP/176 Def Starmie
342 attack vs 250 defense, 80 power(* 2), 324 max HP: 48.77% - 57.41%
Toxicroak doing the same on 252 HP/96 Def Starmie
342 attack vs 230 defense, 80 power(* 2), 324 max HP: 52.78% - 62.35%
Starmie is pretty much always going to 3HKO you with Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, but it can't do that if you keep X-Scissoring. It won't do jack to Slowbro and it is of no help to Fliers (Gliscor, Salamence, Gyarados), but as said, it helps for Celebi.
Toxicroak using X-Scissor on 404 HP/270 Def (stat) Celebi
342 attack vs 270 defense, 80 power(* 4), 404 max HP: 73.02% - 86.14%
Move 4: Hidden Power Ice
I know what you're thinking. I have Adamant, no Special Attack EVs and no STAB. What is that going to hurt?
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 252 HP/0 SpDef Gliscor
187 attack vs 186 defense, 70 power(* 4), 354 max HP: 58.47% - 68.93%
Now, Gliscor is faster than Toxicroak, so you'll always only be hitting on it behind a Substitute or you'll get Earthquaked. You'll need the speedy version of Toxicroak if you plan on bickering with it one on one, because Gliscor can Roost to become only 2x weak to Ice for a turn and outlast you.
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 4 HP/0 SpDef Salamence
187 attack vs 196 defense, 70 power(* 4), 332 max HP: 59.34% - 69.88%
Pretty much all Salamence with more HP will have Roost, or it must be a rare bulky Dragon Dancer without Roost. If they have Roost, they'll win anyway unless weakened. Anyway, a surprising amount of damage.
Toxicroak using Hidden Power Ice on 4 HP/0 SpDef Garchomp
187 attack vs 206 defense, 70 power(* 4), 358 max HP: 52.23% - 61.45%
Toxicroak using Focus Punch on 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp
342 attack vs 226 defense, 150 power(* 1.5), 358 max HP: 68.16% - 80.45%
As you can see, it is always preferable to hit Garchomp with Focus Punch if you can rather than Hidden Power Ice. If it is more bulky than this, it likely has HP, and I'd likely put more SpDef on it too if I was aiming to survive specific Ice Beams. Plus, not using Hidden Power Ice keeps a moveslot hidden (you'll use it less often than Focus Punch), so you can bluff one of the other options such as X-Scissor or Stone Edge.[/b]
Move 4: Stone Edge
Anticlimatic ending, but Stone Edge is probably the most solid option, so you can hit those fliers.
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 4 HP/0 Def Salamence before Intimidate
342 attack vs 196 defense, 100 power(* 2), 332 max HP: 75.6% - 89.16%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 4 HP/0 Def Salamence after Intimidate
228 attack vs 196 defense, 100 power(* 2), 332 max HP: 50.6% - 59.64%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on Bulky Gyarados before Intimidate
342 attack vs 239 defense, 100 power(* 2), 386 max HP: 53.63% - 63.21%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on Bulky Gyarados after Intimidate
228 attack vs 239 defense, 100 power(* 2), 386 max HP: 36.01% - 42.49%
Toxicroak using Stone Edge on 252 HP/220 Def Zapdos
342 attack vs 261 defense, 100 power(* 2), 384 max HP: 49.48% - 58.33%
That's it. My point is not that Toxicroak is underrated or that this set is the best. I'm simply pointing out with evidence and facts what it can and can't do, and my conclusion would be that this set would be good to add in its analysis.
