Metagame SS NU Metagame Discussion

[shiloh]

After only a couple months of waiting, NU is ready to start up. We are looking forward to a metagame that is sure to be diverse and plenty of fun! To quickly go over what Alpha means; it means that there will be no tiering during the next month of the tier, and instead it will be a time for players and council members to get acclimated to this new tier. During this time, we will be able to get a good idea on what the future of NU for the upcoming generation will be, and will hopefully be able to go into Beta with no hitches! Without further ado, here are the RU stats from last month, which will give us our initial banlist (thanks to marty and the immortal for these):[/CODE][/HIDE]

RU (1630 stats)

Combined usage for RU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Gigalith           | 25.049% |
| 2    | Sigilyph           | 23.646% |
| 3    | Goodra             | 19.808% |
| 4    | Salazzle           | 17.618% |
| 5    | Passimian          | 16.821% |
| 6    | Roserade           | 14.510% |
| 7    | Vaporeon           | 13.646% |
| 8    | Dhelmise           | 12.957% |
| 9    | Steelix            | 12.902% |
| 10   | Vileplume          | 12.666% |
| 11   | Pangoro            | 12.291% |
| 12   | Galvantula         | 11.466% |
| 13   | Xatu               | 10.024% |
| 14   | Torkoal            |  9.082% |
| 15   | Rillaboom          |  9.052% |
| 16   | Barbaracle         |  8.660% |
| 17   | Drifblim           |  8.351% |
| 18   | Mr. Rime           |  8.269% |
| 19   | Jellicent          |  7.662% |
| 20   | Mudsdale           |  7.517% |
| 21   | Silvally-Ghost     |  7.509% |
| 22   | Escavalier         |  7.396% |
| 23   | Runerigus          |  7.390% |
| 24   | Boltund            |  7.346% |
| 25   | Ninetales          |  6.972% |
| 26   | Snorlax            |  6.873% |
| 27   | Shiftry            |  6.421% |
| 28   | Aromatisse         |  6.407% |
| 29   | Rotom              |  6.306% |
| 30   | Indeedee-F         |  6.303% |
| 31   | Machamp            |  6.199% |
| 32   | Sableye            |  5.727% |
| 33   | Turtonator         |  5.691% |
| 34   | Quagsire           |  5.562% |
| 35   | Silvally-Steel     |  5.557% |
| 36   | Alcremie           |  5.541% |
| 37   | Gallade            |  5.418% |
| 38   | Flapple            |  5.258% |
| 39   | Whimsicott         |  5.151% |
| 40   | Gastrodon          |  5.151% |
| 41   | Bewear             |  5.123% |
| 42   | Eldegoss           |  4.964% |
| 43   | Cinccino           |  4.865% |
| 44   | Accelgor           |  4.697% |
| 45   | Hitmonlee          |  4.693% |
| 46   | Froslass           |  4.661% |
| 47   | Vanilluxe          |  4.626% |
| 48   | Gurdurr            |  4.544% |
---------------------------------------
| 49   | Rapidash-Galar     |  4.460% |
| 50   | Cursola            |  4.304% |
| 51   | Toxicroak          |  4.257% |
| 52   | Mr. Mime-Galar     |  4.249% |
| 53   | Piloswine          |  4.202% |
| 54   | Sandaconda         |  4.125% |
| 55   | Silvally-Fairy     |  4.071% |
| 56   | Garbodor           |  4.051% |
| 57   | Rhydon             |  4.039% |
| 58   | Vikavolt           |  4.013% |
| 59   | Hitmontop          |  3.984% |
| 60   | Unfezant           |  3.860% |
| 61   | Jolteon            |  3.779% |
| 62   | Togedemaru         |  3.734% |
| 63   | Mantine            |  3.682% |
| 64   | Perrserker         |  3.509% |
| 65   | Falinks            |  3.441% |
| 66   | Shuckle            |  3.339% |
| 67   | Rotom-Fan          |  3.206% |
| 68   | Arctozolt          |  3.071% |
| 69   | Kingler            |  2.915% |
| 70   | Appletun           |  2.914% |
| 71   | Orbeetle           |  2.717% |
| 72   | Vullaby            |  2.708% |
| 73   | Drednaw            |  2.653% |
| 74   | Qwilfish           |  2.629% |
| 75   | Scrafty            |  2.595% |
| 76   | Slurpuff           |  2.516% |
| 77   | Hitmonchan         |  2.490% |
| 78   | Cofagrigus         |  2.396% |
| 79   | Butterfree         |  2.353% |
| 80   | Trapinch           |  2.221% |
| 81   | Arctovish          |  2.180% |
| 82   | Crustle            |  2.165% |
| 83   | Golurk             |  2.150% |
| 84   | Drampa             |  2.118% |
| 85   | Ferroseed          |  2.110% |
| 86   | Malamar            |  2.092% |
| 87   | Thievul            |  2.091% |
| 88   | Leafeon            |  2.051% |
| 89   | Flareon            |  1.847% |
| 90   | Eiscue             |  1.693% |
| 91   | Rotom-Frost        |  1.603% |
| 92   | Dubwool            |  1.535% |
| 93   | Carkol             |  1.527% |
| 94   | Haunter            |  1.522% |
| 95   | Pincurchin         |  1.511% |
| 96   | Gourgeist-Small    |  1.423% |
| 97   | Klinklang          |  1.392% |
| 98   | Abomasnow          |  1.339% |
| 99   | Silvally-Dark      |  1.306% |
| 100  | Stonjourner        |  1.300% |
| 101  | Ninjask            |  1.241% |
| 102  | Manectric          |  1.150% |
| 103  | Pyukumuku          |  1.096% |
| 104  | Lanturn            |  1.081% |
| 105  | Dusclops           |  1.063% |
| 106  | Basculin           |  1.013% |
| 107  | Glaceon            |  1.012% |
| 108  | Grapploct          |  0.985% |
| 109  | Stunfisk-Galar     |  0.947% |
| 110  | Ludicolo           |  0.885% |
| 111  | Skuntank           |  0.882% |
| 112  | Lapras             |  0.779% |
| 113  | Mawile             |  0.757% |
| 114  | Sawk               |  0.714% |
| 115  | Musharna           |  0.703% |
| 116  | Silvally-Ground    |  0.660% |
| 117  | Noctowl            |  0.641% |
| 118  | Bellossom          |  0.638% |
| 119  | Gourgeist-Super    |  0.638% |
| 120  | Beartic            |  0.564% |
| 121  | Type: Null         |  0.560% |
| 122  | Shedinja           |  0.521% |
| 123  | Sneasel            |  0.519% |
| 124  | Trevenant          |  0.518% |
| 125  | Duosion            |  0.497% |
| 126  | Dusknoir           |  0.485% |
| 127  | Maractus           |  0.467% |
| 128  | Raichu             |  0.408% |
| 129  | Lunatone           |  0.407% |
| 130  | Greedent           |  0.387% |
| 131  | Silvally           |  0.383% |
| 132  | Shiinotic          |  0.380% |
| 133  | Silvally-Fire      |  0.377% |
| 134  | Drilbur            |  0.374% |
| 135  | Silvally-Dragon    |  0.364% |
| 136  | Clefairy           |  0.347% |
| 137  | Mareanie           |  0.322% |
| 138  | Silvally-Water     |  0.317% |
| 139  | Palpitoad          |  0.299% |
| 140  | Wishiwashi         |  0.288% |
| 141  | Delibird           |  0.279% |
| 142  | Liepard            |  0.276% |
| 143  | Solrock            |  0.276% |
| 144  | Drakloak           |  0.268% |
| 145  | Silvally-Flying    |  0.238% |
| 146  | Gothitelle         |  0.222% |
| 147  | Mr. Mime           |  0.215% |
| 148  | Heatmor            |  0.209% |
| 149  | Diglett            |  0.204% |
| 150  | Togetic            |  0.196% |
| 151  | Silvally-Poison    |  0.192% |
| 152  | Beheeyem           |  0.189% |
| 153  | Linoone-Galar      |  0.178% |
| 154  | Silvally-Electric  |  0.167% |
| 155  | Vespiquen          |  0.162% |
| 156  | Sudowoodo          |  0.145% |
| 157  | Swirlix            |  0.144% |
| 158  | Gourgeist          |  0.143% |
| 159  | Roselia            |  0.141% |
| 160  | Morgrem            |  0.136% |
| 161  | Silvally-Fighting  |  0.134% |
| 162  | Hattrem            |  0.123% |
| 163  | Octillery          |  0.120% |
| 164  | Persian            |  0.118% |
| 165  | Whiscash           |  0.116% |
| 166  | Meowstic           |  0.112% |
| 167  | Pikachu            |  0.108% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

Everything under 4.52% usage will be the initial tier list for NU Alpha!

This thread will be the hub for anything from metagame observations, team posting, set sharing, and whatever else you guys feel is relevant to the Alpha tier. Just do not post any one liners, and stay on topic. Just as a reminder, there will be no bans over the next month, but we will be keeping an eye on the metagame over the next month to see if there is anything that will require a ban once we enter beta!

Happy posting!

 

[Zneon]

Aight people wassup, I'm just gonna give my first impressions on some of these Pokemon:

It's only been one day and this Pokemon already looks fantastic. Toxicroak is not only more splashable than I thought with Dry Skin, but an absolute threat with NP and SD sets, it has so many options with shit like Dpulse and Sucker these sets for Cursola, and priority like Vacuum and the aforementioned Sucker can revenge faster mons like Mr-Mime or Unfezant. It has so many variations and options with NP and SD sets that it is a threat to almost any team.

Looks like the premier rocker in this tier, like it was one of the premier ones last gen, except it doesn't have competition with Lix and Toad as they are in the higher tiers. Rhydon can not only set up rockers but be threatening to hazard control with its great offensive presence, Unfezant, Mr-Mime and Hitmontop can be threatened by an EQ or Rock Slide and can't 2HKO Rhydon back due to its amazing bulk with Eviolite, pushing its viability is the fact there is a lack of knock in this tier.

Silvally-Fairy, or Silvally in general, looks like an absolute metagame staple right now, it can fit on many types of teams and being useful on all of them, it can be a pivot and an SD sweeper on the same slot. Fairy is an amazing typing, and despite Poisons like Garb, Skuntank and Toxicroak running around, it has great utility by being able to pivot around its checks with U-turn or Parting Shot. It won't be a surprise if this Pokemon stays extremely common in the tier.

Unlike the other gens before, this thing is actually usable now, but that's now because it has a new toy to play with in Brave Bird. Band Unfezant is an absolute nuke on any non-flying resist, which stuff like Garb, Mr-Mime and Silvally being 2HKO'd with ease, and making it even worse is that with Super Luck you can hax your opponent and even get kills on any non-flying resists that switch in, having a great speed tier and amazing offensive presence makes it a great wallbreaker that shouldn't be undervalued.

Aight so that's about it, I can't wait to see how this tier develops a month from now, it's been so much fun!

 

[Feliburn]

Well gonna pitch in a bit:

I've found Lanturn to be one of the nicer defensive mons in the tier, I originally started using it to handle Rotom forms, Unfezant, Togedemaru, Mantine, even using it as a Rhydon check cause I'm crazy about speed creep.

Golurks a very nice offensive rocker, with the right coverage this mon can break a lot of defensive cores rn. I know everyones loving the Rhydon meta but Golurk should probably get looked at as well.

Ferros been p good at handling every single physical attacker and setting up spikes, really valuable in a meta struggling for removal. I've even been experimenting with using Heat Crash Rhydon to OHKO Ferroseed. I've been running plain max defense cause I didn't wanna risk anything vs Rapidash.

This mons incredibly annoying now that Pursuit is gone and the main dark types to switch into Haunter are like Skuntank and Silvally-Dark, both which take a good chunk from Dazzling Gleam. Definitely one of the better offensive mons currently.

I know people like Aboma cause it has access to Aurora Veil, but honestly Aboma lacks good switchins because the combination of Blizzard - Earth Power - Leaf Storm/Giga Drain is incredibly good, you basically have to guess right every time vs it. Aurora Veil just adds on to how good it actually is. Would definitely start exploring more offensive sets in teams outside of Aurora Veil offense.

Agreeing with everything frens dude above said, Unfezant is a very nice scarfer and Silvally forms rule, been having more success with Fairy and Dark forms.

 

[DavidDMS]

^ I can vouch for this guy after he wooped my ass a couple times.

Hitmonchan can do the same things it always does. Threaten rock setters, pick off opponents with Mach Punch, and do lots of damage with Drain Punch. Ice Punch and Thunder Punch are the preferable coverage options.

Great defensive Pokemon. Despite the loss of Defog, Haze is a cool choice that guarantees that you beat the Falinks that you will constantly encounter.

This powerhouse forms a great volturn core with Unfezant and Silvally, and it often forces your opponent to make risky predictions or sack an essential mon.

 

[ausma]

Vikavolt looks extremely schnice right now! Vikavolt shreds a lot of the bulky waters that are down there such as Mantine, Qwilfish, and Pyukumuku. Plus, now that it has access to Sticky Web, I have no doubt this thing will be the superior web setter over Orbeetle thanks to its coveted offenses and Bug/Electric STAB to cleave through the bulky psychics and waters plaguing the tier. After having tested it a lot, it could be in contention for one of the best offensive mons in the tier currently (especially on Trick Room), but its SR weakness and lack of reliable recovery does have me cocking a brow.


Toxicroak is another thing that looks pretty dangerous. Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, and STAB on Gunk Shot/Fighting moves look really nice at the moment with all of these bulky Pokemon and speedy psychics running about.


The fact this thing has Brave Bird now makes me think that it'll be a terrifying wallbreaker with its crit sets alongside Vikavolt to cover its offensive blind spots/set much appreciated webs. Flying STAB is nice against Gourgeist/Trevenant which also look like staple walls at the moment as well, and Defog support is always nice to have as well. I think it'll be more based in offense, but I can see a pivot set working relatively well with HDB.



Oh yeah yeah, time to wall and burn half the tier.

Falinks is going to be scary. Not at all broken since we have Musharna, Pyuku, and the ghost walls, but it will be terrifying thanks to its ludicrously strong boosting and coverage options. SD and No Retreat are viable for dual boosting now that Zen Headbutt isn't a necessity for coverage anymore, and it further exacerbates the offensive/sweeping potential Falinks has. Additionally, I see a ton of ice and rock types down here at the moment, and not only does that work to Toxicroak's benefit, but it will juice Falinks up a notch especially. I can see this working well with Aurora Veil HO and balance as a consistent win con.

Oh, and don't get me started on Defiant vs. the likely Intimidate spam in the tier.

 

[Rabia]

another role compendium to use for the alpha stage; all Pokemon are on the Viability List as of the creation of this

Entry Hazard Setters

Stealth Rock:

Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:


Entry Hazard Removal

Defog:

Rapid Spin:


Setup Users

Swords Dance:

Nasty Plot:

Bulk Up: (contrary superpower)

Calm Mind:

Other: (quiver dance) (quiver dance) (iron defense) (shell smash) (agility) (shift gear) (rain dance) (rain dance) (growth) (dragon dance) (curse) (iron defense) (agility) (cotton guard) (belly drum) (no retreat) (belly drum) (calm mind + iron defense)


Wallbreakers

Physical:

Special:

Mixed:


Revenge Killers

Choice Scarf:

Priority:

Naturally Fast:


Walls

Physical:

Special:

Mixed: (idk lol)


Trappers

Arena Trap:


Suicide Leads


Pivots

U-turn:

Volt Switch:

Parting Shot:


Clerics

Wish:

Aromatherapy:

some of the placements are obvs up for your own interpretation ie what classifies as a mixed wall vs a physical/special and whatnot; all this is really meant to serve as is a general quick reference so people can see roughly what a mon does

 

[Realistic Waters]

Sneasel @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Throat Chop
- Low Kick

Sneasel lost Knock off and Pursuit but it's still rather decent imo. Idk if you count Jolteon as a meme but it's the second fastest relevant mon after it so you're able to revenge kill popular choices like Silvally Dark, Mr Mime G, Haunter, Unfezant, Raichu, Rapidash and Toxicroak (after small chip). Ice shard handles Butterfree and random choice scarfs / weakened set up sweepers. Good choice for balance/offensive teams.

The metagame is interesting so far, it sucks to have limited hazard control options, but hopefully things change may change soon. I haven't played a tonne of games so far but it should be fun exploring the new things we have and looking at new ideas.

relevant calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Dark: 274-324 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 238-282 (77.5 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rapidash-Galar: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Butterfree: 272-324 (104.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Machineae]

Classic NU hazard stack core. Not much has to be said about this that we don't know about. Not sure what the premier spinblocker of the tier will be at the moment, but obviously look towards one of those. Running these two will some cool offensive options in the form of LO chan and CB Liepard

sets

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Seed Bomb

 

[Spikenizz]

I’m Going to throw my hat in the ring with something I think can be a monster with correct play and matchup

Theivul can be a great substitute with any berry due to its unburden. It also has access to nasty plot even 1 nasty plot is enough to tear through a late game team. It’s also is great at revenge killing the ever-present Falinks since it’s unboosted Psychic has a guaranteed chance to 2HKO it at max hp invest.

however, this mon is almost entirely walled by other dark types, especially scrafty. So this mon is far from perfect, this is just a set I thought was kinda cool.

Thievul @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
Here is what I used in case youre curious

 

[Hogg]

On my phone so I'll make this brief but been having fun on the ladder so far. Togedemaru is a fantastic scarfer with a great set of resistances and immunities, plus U-turn and a very nice Speed tier. Sawk is really excellent thanks to SturdyBoots and absolutely ridiculous coverage; I just wish it had a few more moveslots because it's so hard to choose between elemental punches/Counter/Throat Punch/PJab/EQ. Cofagrigus is one of the absolute best walls around, with Body Press being a huge boon to non-TR sets. The Silvally forms are very good, especially Fairy but don't sleep on Dark either. Rhydon and the serpent and Golurk are all great rockers, though recently I've started using Piloswine and it has been my favorite option yet. Hazards are incredibly like they are in every lower tier right now and will likely continue to be until Home turns everything on its head. I'm literally running a triple boots + spin team and still find myself running into trouble against well built hazard stack.

 

[Machineae]

I’m Going to throw my hat in the ring with something I think can be a monster with correct play and matchup

View attachment 221625Theivul can be a great substitute with any berry due to its unburden. It also has access to nasty plot even 1 nasty plot is enough to tear through a late game team. It’s also is great at revenge killing the ever-present Falinks since it’s unboosted Psychic has a guaranteed chance to 2HKO it at max hp invest.

however, this mon is almost entirely walled by other dark types, especially scrafty. So this mon is far from perfect, this is just a set I thought was kinda cool.

Thievul @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
Here is what I used in case youre curious

I feel like Liepard runs this set even better despite having no prankster anymore. It's a lot faster to start out and has (lol) one more base SpA. In previous gens Prankster+Encore, NP, Sub, Dark Pulse w/ black glasses was a staple for me but if you wanna throw in an unburden twist:

Liepard @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse

Encore provides plenty of opportunities to get up a sub or immediately boost and fire off a strong shot.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

I’m Going to throw my hat in the ring with something I think can be a monster with correct play and matchup

View attachment 221625Theivul can be a great substitute with any berry due to its unburden. It also has access to nasty plot even 1 nasty plot is enough to tear through a late game team. It’s also is great at revenge killing the ever-present Falinks since it’s unboosted Psychic has a guaranteed chance to 2HKO it at max hp invest.

If you need to revenge kill falinks it probably has no retreat up. This means you need to be scarf to outspeed it, theivul aint suriving a CC regardless of the circumstances. On the other hand Falinks is great at revengekilling theivul since its first impression has a 44% OHKO chance even without any boosting item

Other things ive seen in the meta:

Abomasnow is a monster that always needs to be accounted for, it has a really easy time forcing switches ad either spamming brutal blizzards or setting aurora veil. Hail is constant chip , which is horrible for many NU pokemon that rely on lefites to heal. Abomasnow also has great synergy with other potentially spooky mons like Rotom-Frost, Beartic and Jolteon (gets weather ball for pseudo bolt-beam coverage in hail)

Ludicolo is also stupid good in this meta. It can set up rain on wherever it wants and hits most of the tier for big damage, things like phys. def cofagrigus take 90%+ from Hydro in rain. Mantine is the only thing ive seen so far that does not die to anything ludicolo commonly carries, and can scare it back with hurricane/ air slash. and even that you can lure with LO thunderpunch.

Best thing about ludicolo is that it forces so many switches when it gets rain up that its hard for the opponent to properly damage it, so it can come in multiple times a match and click those monsterous hydro pumps.

Stonjourner is a really cool alternative rocker due to its solid base 70 speed, which lets it outspeed stuff like abomasnow and OHKO it with heatcrash/rock blast before it can set up veil. It looses to other rockers and cant take a single special hit, but its speed tier and solid attack stat is enough in my eyes to make it shine

Cursola has absolute insane coverage, besides STAB shadow ball/hex you can pick from stuff like: Ice beam, Earth power, Hydro pump, giga drain, power gem etc. on top of this it has a great support movepoll, and it can be used as a specially defensive cofagrigus that drops phyiscal bulk for bonkers special attack. if only it had trick room....

 

[658Greninja]

Just strolling by to share my thoughts on the meta

The Big Three

These are the mons I fell might be the most impactful rn. Coffin makes spinning near impossible, and packs NP, WoW, TSpikes, Body Press, Iron Defense, etc. It’s ludicrously bulky and can fill plenty of different roles. Garbodor gets spikes up so easily and threatens stuff with Gunk, Stomping Tantrum, Seed Bomb, Explosion, etc. It’s also a very splashable check to fighting types and FairyVally. Rhydon is the best rocker in the tier and difficult to swap into. Functions as a Fezant switch in, wallbreaker, rocker, and tank in one slot.

The other big boys (girls)
Veil is broken, nothing else to say about Obamasnow other than its also a solid breaker. Chan is one of the last remaining spinners of NU. Hits like a truck and has enough special bulk to take at least one good hit. Kingler has no good switch ins other than Appletun and Gourgeist. Everything else dies at +2 or just in general. Mantine is a great anti meta pick for its ability to check Kingler and Rhydon, but we all know that RU is gonna take it back next month since Vaporeon is gone. Swine is a solid rocker and has priority which is always nice to have for stuff like Unfezant. Togedemaru is one of the best scarfers in the tier + Fairy/Flying/Electric resist and pivot. Croak does alot in the tier. SD, Scarf, NP, I’ve even seen variants with Taunt and Toxic. People like HDB on Fezant but I find that set kinda underwhelming due to the lack of bulk, Band is a different story. Band BB has no safe switch ins other than Rhydon. Even Togedemaru and Jolt are 2HKOd by BB. It also has priority in Quick Attack and lures in Rhydon with U-Turn anyways. Vika is our best webber besides Orbeetle. Hits like a truck and is a decent check to fighting types.

Also good boys

Golurk is a solid rocker/spinblocker. Might face competition from Rhydon though. Haunter is really good rn. Hits like a truck and has few safe switch ins. Its utility belt is huge as well. Malamar is a solid wincon. Not as good as I thought it would be but still really good. Qwilfish is Garbodor but with Taunt. Qwil’s speed tier is nice in NU rn which is a nice trait over Garb. Sawk is an offensive beast. Whatever doesn’t mind CC is stomped by Throat Chop, Stone Edge, Poison Jab, or whatever it throws out, HDB Sturdy is a decent revenge killer. Scrafty is a nice wincon cause of how bulky it is in the tier. Shed Skin is really nice for stuffing Coffin. Fairy, Dark, and Water Silvally might be the best ones here. Fairy is a great cleaner/breaker. Dark is slept on till your Coffin dies. Water has nice defensive utility and coverage.

The new boys (girls)

Falinks is kinda inconsistent. It seems nice on paper but it’s too easily answered with Scarf Fezant or Coffin. Band First Impression might have potential though. Gime is very fast for the tier and having spin is highly valuable down here. Might be more consistent as time goes on. Orbeetle does alot in here. Double Dance and Webs seems like the best sets here, especially Double Dance with TSpikes. Perrserker is either really good or underwhelming. Hits like a truck vs most stuff in here but is also incredibly slow and even a bit frail. I could see this rise if Mantine leaves. RainbowDash is underrated. Immunity to TSpikes ans fanatstic offensive typing on top of its great speed tier. Don’t sleep on this. Sandacondra is rockless Rhydon. Glare is annoying, Coil Resttalk has potential.

DON’T SLEEP

Drampa has very little switch ins. Most of the meta is nuked by either Draco or by its coverage. It also chucks fat stuff like Coffin and Mantine. Ferroseed is a great glue mon, covering fairies and waters while providing rocks, spikes, and the rare Knock Off. It pairs really nicely with the other sleeper pick, Flareon. Who also provides wishpass support while having an offensive presence. Roselia is no Garbodor but it might have perks over it. It can check FairyVally and Kingler more reliably due to it’s access to recovery. It also has a better MU against Rhydon and other grounds. Slurpuff is heavily slept on. Between CM and WishPass, it’s the only fully evolved user of Aromatherapy besides Roselia which almost never runs that. It’s coverage is almost perfect for sweeping with CM and has enough bulk to take one or two hits, especially with defensive sets. Also yes, I think Basculin is a sleeper pick. It’s basically a faster Kingler with less dmg but outpaces base 95s like Haunter and the Silvallys, its has the coverage to mess with Mantine and Obamasnow with Head Smash, Toxicroak and Roselia with Psychic Fangs, Gourgeist with Crunch, etc. It also has Adaptability boosted priority which is always great to have.

Low Ladder bait

Butterfree never sweeps. Too slow, easily revenged, kinda frail, etc. Top almost never breaks past Coffin. Doesn’t even have Drain Punch for recovery. Just use Chan. Jolteon never breaks through bulky grounds and kinda blows but I could be wrong.

 

[Karoshi]

Misc. observations during my first twenty or so games. Still need to play alot more games but here is my initial thoughts.

Pincurchin is surprisingly bulky... until it isn't. I have used it to wall out several key pokemon but it lacks the HP to properly survive the strongest wallbreakers. That said Spikes, Electric Surge and Self Recovery gives it fairly good utility. 101 Atk and 91 SpAtk is surprisingly strong as well especially with Electric Terrain up. I don't know how good it will actually be but don't sleep on it.

Don't use Abomasnow as your lead mindlessly. He isn't fast, has like a million weaknesses, isn't that bulky if A.Veil isn't up and is very predictable. I think he is a top tier threat but I've crippled most teams with him by taking him out right away.

Silvally of any type is a scary special attacker. Amazing bulk, great speed tier in NU and a strong pivot. Alot of special attacking Pokemon lost their coverage while Silvally got to keep its array of attacks. I would be surprised if most teams don't splash one on their team.

Arcto-Fossils are way too slow to use properly. Even with max speed and sticky web support I was constantly outsped. Trick Room is the only viable option and unfortunately I don't think the TR users in this tier are all that good. Mixed with their bad typing and I don't see them being used too often. Arctovish was less dead weight but that isn't saying much.

Appletun feels like he is one of the hardest walls to break if you don't have a dedicated check and possibly the easiest if you do. One test team melted him on accident while another couldn't break through it. I need to test him out some more.

Rhydon is Amazing. Nothing to add just wanted to reiterate.

Thievul seems like a trap. Never used it myself but everytime I ran up to it never threatened anything and died right away. 87 SpAtk is usable but not great, 90 speed means it loses out to key threats and it only truly hits hard on switches but since it doesn't threaten much unboosted you either have to forgo setup to hit hard once or setup and forced to swap out yourself. Even when I wasn't using Scrafty or Vikavolt I never had issues. I'm skeptical on its value.

Alolan Vileplume was a great surprise pick in PU last gen and I feel like it is here as well. Quiver Dance + Strength Sap is a win condition onto itself. Toxic is less of a concern this time around and when its true counters are gone there are very few checks. Needs support to remove TSpikes though.

 

[Pro_Hybrid]

I've played close to forty games at this point, and I wanted to share the team I've had some early success with.

https://pokepast.es/26b880d1a970da2c

Aurora Veil is really great in combination with set-up spam, and Abomasnow itself is a fairly solid breaker with Ice Shard helping to pick off threats at low HP. It's also great against any rain teams I've run into so far.

I think this may be the best Mon in the tier right now, with both NP and SD sets being very threatening and each have different counter-play. Also, despite not being very bulky, I feel like Croak's typing and water immunity give it decent opportunities to set-up.

Really good glue Mon even without Defog. I really like Fairy for switching into fighting types and because there aren't a lot of great fairy resists that can take a Fire Fang.

Probably tied with Rhydon as the best rocker in the tier. Glare is busted.

LO Haunter is a menace with no Pursuit. Thunderbolt is to help with Mantine specifically, and Destiny Bond is a good back-up against bulkier setup sweepers.

Great Scarfer and revenge killer, as well as Defog for back-up hazard removal.

Some other Mons I've had success with in the tier so far:

Really powerful wallbreaker with Specs and with no Pursuit, Cofag is probably more splashable though.

This thing is good in rain, but I think Focus Sash lead with Rocks and CB can also be good.

I've been running a double dance set with Calm Mind, Agility, Stored Power, and Bug Buzz with Heavy Duty Boots. It's a good late-game cleaner if you can weaken stuff like Mantine.

 

[Rabia]

Small post for now but don’t sleep on Piloswine and Golurk; I think they’re both insanely great Stealth Rock setters atm due to the immense role compression they provide along with a really solid offensive presence. Sandaconda is good but imo a step below them; Coil sets seem like they have good potential tho.

 

[earl]

Flareon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wish
- Protect
- Copycat

Copycat is fun, you can do stuff like set hazards or steal a status move or whatever, I like it more than Yawn at least.
Here's a replay of it pranking a cofag
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1057410978

 

[Nogan]

We have two defoggers in the tier, and Unfezant is probably better in most circumstances with its speed, u-turn, and natural power. Noctowl has some added utility with Whirlwind, but I haven't seen enough setup sweepers to want that on a balance team. And I think you absolutely need Defog if you care about hazards, because rapid spin is just far too unreliable to depend on with at least 4 bulky ghosts in the tier. Eviolite Dusclops, for example, sits on every spinner, and the lack of Dark types and Knock Off means it isn't going to be threatened easily. It's also one of the only mons that has Memento, so it might work really well in tandem with getting in, say, Toxicroak to set up a free SD or NP.

 

[Fragmented]

Look at all the sparky bois



Togedemaru is probably the best scarfer in the tier, since it has U-turn to pivot out of the unfavourable match ups it has vs Ground-types, Nuzzle to cripple stuff like DD Scrafty or Agility+CM/ID Orbeetle, and good ol' Zing Zap and Iron Head to paraflinch stuff down. Annoying to deal with but a great mon nonetheless. 8/10

Fantom and Frostom can run a myriad of sets, but the best one imo is NPBoots with either Tbolt/Volt Switch or Wisp as your last slot. Scarf works too and you can cripple stuff, but with all the Electric immunities running around, being locked into Volt Switch isn't favourable. The distinguishing thing between the two Rotoms is that one beats Ground-types (including Piloswine if you're lucky), while the other beats Fighting-types which Frostom hates. 7.5/10, with ranking probably rising when Home frees Defog.

Vikavolt is still a threat and a menace to deal with, having near perfect coverage and Sticky Web to support the team. Specs is still hard to switch into, and bulky sets could still work, though they have taken a backseat in this very offensive meta. 8/10

Other honourable mentions:



Isn't great, but it isn't as terrible as people make it out to be. Its coverage is dismal, but it does have usable SpDef to at least tank a hit. You can run it on Rain/Hail/Sun as well to use Weather Ball as pseudo coverage to hit the Ground/Grass types that otherwise sit on it for days. Another cool slot to run is Twave, since it is hella fast and can probably cripple something else for your team to take advantage of later. 7/10 He is still a good boy.


The anti sparky boy, this guy deals with all the above mentioned lads, bar Vikavolt. It could potentially be set-up fodder for the Rotoms, and hates being tricked a Scarf (unless you're running the ferrari set), but otherwise, Lanturn can sit on them and potentially scare them out with a Scald burn. 7.5/10


Seen this around, but it kind of hates losing HP Grass since the only thing it can hit now is Togedemaru. Specs Switcheroo is still annoying, but I don't think its that good now. 4/10


He's just happy to be here. Look at those cheeks, positively brimming with sparks of joy. Being able to run both NP and Surf on the same set is a blessing, although it is still hardwalled by Lanturn unless it hits all the Focus Blast. 10/10 for this sparky boy.


Honourary Electric type, but he ain't loyal to the boys. He is seen often running off with the other types. 0/10 no loyalty. However, Fairy is probably the go-to type now, since it threatens out almost all the Fighting-types in the tier, and with the release of Home, will probably be one of the better forms of hazard control.

Other stuff not related to the sparky boys:

Feliburn used this core on ladder, and I hated facing every minute of it. Few usable Fire-types in the tier means Ferro can switch in freely, only really needing to worry about Fighting types, which are checked by Mush. On the other hand, Mush can sit pretty easy, and it now gets Moonblast to bop would-be switch-ins like Darkvally, Scrafty and Skuntank; while still having recovery with Moonlight. Add a Poison-type and/or a spinner and this core is really annoying to take down.


Only used this for it's ability to beat Ferroseed. Drednaw could probably do the same with Superpower, but Stonjourner is so heavy that Heat Crash is almost always 120 BP.


This thing is stupid scary. Scarf is eh cos Togedemaru exists. LO 4 attacks or Sub 3 Attacks are both threatening sets since GF decided that Haunter could use all the coverage in the world. Energy Ball as the last move to OHKO Rhydon and hit other Ground-types and Lanturn hard, which frees up Electric-types on your team to Volt Switch and what not.


With the bulky waters in the tier being Lanturn and Mantine (and unfortunately Pyukumuku), this thing is having a field day (or pool day). Agility is probably better than SD due to the pace of the meta and the lower level of bulk in the tier. Now with access to High Horsepower, it can hit stuff like Lanturn, Qwilfish and Toxicroaks that switch in much harder. Last slot is debatable, with Knock Off being a good neutral option to cripple Ferroseed and other bulky mons dependent on Lefties, Superpower again for Ferroseed, and Rock Slide for Vikavolt and Mantine if it doesn't miss :(.

On a smaller note, Piloswine and Rhydon are still both good, Sandaconda is annoying since it can Glare, Butterfree isn't great since it's slow and Hitmontop is still bad.

 

[erisia]

I've played a few matches and this tier seems fun without Dynamax or the Z-moves of last generation. At first I was skeptical of some of the move cuts but I actually like Hidden Power not being a thing anymore; its means Special Attackers can actually be more reasonably countered and can have similar coverage issues to physical attackers in the tier. I haven't played enough to have any major comments on the meta but here is my favorite new boy:

Sandaconda @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin / Sand Spit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Earthquake
- Body Press / Stone Edge

Rhydon is probably better overall, but being able to shrug off the occasional Burn, having access to 100% accurate paralysis against non-Ghost types, the Speed to actually take advantage of Paralysis, and not having any 4x weaknesses give it some niches. I haven't tried Sand Spit yet but it could potentially be interesting for disrupting weather teams. Haunter absolutely shits on it though unless it runs Stone Edge. Electric-types are a lot less threatening now without Hidden Power so it can usually take them on reasonably well.

I also liked this set for Cursola; I'm not 100% sold on it but it has excellent coverage and Ghost-types seem quite strong from the matches I've played. I partnered it with LO Haunter as a sort of Ghost-spam core.

Cursola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain / Hydro Pump

I've found it's relatively easy to keep hazards off the field with Unfezant as an anti-Ghost partner that can Defog and pivot for it. While Life Orb Haunter is stronger and has a secondary STAB, Cursola is faster when it manages to get off a Weak Armor boost, and there's not a lot of non-Scarfers that can revenge it outside of priority. I think this set is best paired with Haunter since it can run completely different coverage and beat a lot of things that Cursola can't hit super-effectively.

 

[Fish Gaming]

Guys. Butterfree isnt that bad. It may be slower than vivillon last gen, but it still fills the same role it does. I personally have found myself getting many sweeps with this butterfly.

Butterfree @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain

I have personally found this set to be one of butterfree's best sets. Focus sash to stop it being ohko'd. Sleep powder into quiver dance into hurricane. Giga drain for recovery.

 

[CreamyGlasses]

This Mon is dad. Doesn’t die, FUCKS EVERYTHING over, has rocks. Use always.


Other dad in the tier. Does good damage. Sits on shitmontop and most spinners all day.


Only good hazard remover in the tier. Only thing that can beat the aforementioned dads. Also Vullaby (its main competition) sucks lol.

 

[Moron5]

Been peeping the NU ladder for a bit and wanted to share a few of my thoughts:

Best Kingler check and practically walls every Rhydon. Personally I do not recommend running an item on this mon if you want to check Kingler effectively (+2 Kingler knock off does like 70%). Really annoying to switch into even if you have Ferroseed which can't leech seed you.

Always prep for this mon's cotton guard + body press set, not even kidding. Either maintain your ghost, phazer, really strong special breaker or you're getting screwed by this thing. Doesn't help a lot of the stronger special attackers are weak to Fighting like Frostom or Abomasnow. A lot of the time, this thing can just win on preview it's ridiculous.

This mon should be a staple on any team not only needing a great speed control option but especially to those struggling to shoehorn hazard control to not get screwed by spikes, rocks and especially webs cheese. I think scarf is the best set but band is good I guess. But emergency hazard control is so essential rn being of 2 viable mons with defog and ghosts making it annoying for traditional spinners.

This mon benefits greatly much from hazard stacking meta as it can just skip over spikes and tspikes and only being neutral to rocks. This mon also extremely versatile while I see a lot of specs sets and some scarf sets here and there, I like LO Taunt the most as shutting down webs/spikes and being able to switch around your moves is great. The versatility on this mon is also insane, Energy ball can OHKO Rhydon with LO and chip Lanturn decently, Dgleam can shut out Scrafty, even Will O Wisp allows you screw Toxicroak without having to do a mindgame.

Very underlooked mon considering it basically loves the knock off distribution nerf and walls half of the tier pretty easily. Standard RestTalk Wisp Night Shade really annoys sometimes without a super effective breaker and even then since it's a more physically offensive meta can cripple knock off mons really hard with wisp.

Pretty fun mon to use right now despite the nerfs coming into this gen. Band is probably the only viable set but it hits pretty nicely among the whole tier with Ice/Dark Coverage and with strong priority to top it off. 115 Speed is also just kind of insane to have in a tier where only 2 mons outspeed you without scarf and they both suck right now. Last slot I just like Poison Jab to screw Slurpuffs and Silvally-Fairies.

 

[BLINGAS]

initial shits

haunter: super strong. i've been running specs hex with like 4 status users, but im sure life orb or just non hex specs works fine too. not many dark types to punish this thing (skuntank kinda dogass) and pursuit obv doesn't exist.

sneasel: do switchins to this even exist? cb icicle crash doesn't really have much to stand in its way. off the top of my head (with no testing) i'd guess like phys def lanturn? mawile? i don't really know. best answer to this is just hope you have rocks up and you can keep them up

piloswine: also not sure what switchins this has, outside of just tanking everything with coffin. to a lessser extent rhydon is also a scary ground attacking rocker similar to piloswine, but without ice coverage it has a couple more walls to get it

personal things i tried
stunfisk: in hindsight, i think sandconda does everything this thing does but better. regardless stunfisk is cool, spreads para and shit.

hitmontop: fucking ladder warrior. this shit sucks but technitop is fun to use per usual. thief hits coffin for like 45ish so its not that bad and catches a few people off guard. kinda sucks at everything else though

 

[Cowtao]

Laddered to #61 finally. Got cucked by a lot of stuff and I think it’s time to weigh in some quick thoughts.

Silvally (Water / Dark / Fairy) - Hits like a truck. Ok Coverage moves in Grass Pledge and Psychic Fangs. Throw on a SD and Silvally can 2HKO the Meta depending on his coverage. Also aided by team preview for mind games of which Silvally the player is running.

Cofagrigus - There is almost no reason to run other spin blockers except Cofag. Extremely tanky with good coverage moves and great utility available to it. It’s to a point where you need a dedicated Cofag killer to be ladder successful. Nasty Plot, Trick Room, Stall, or just general utility. Cofagrigus is busted

Scrafty - His abilities + his coverage is really good. Provides a great matchup to ghosts and has great versatility in his sets. Dragon Dance Sets are extremely scary with his coverage. A lot of alternating mind games you can play off of again because of three great abilities and great coverage. Lack of great fighting-types puts Scrafty and Hitmonchan at the top.

Vikavolt - Specs is by far and away the best set to run right now. Almost nothing can come in on his two STABs. Even resisted walls (Cofag, Slurpuff) can be 2HKO after hazard use but they still don’t like taking a 40-45% hit from Bug Buzz. Energy Ball rounds out to destroy Sandaconda, Rhydon, etc. Very brain dead and prolly should be suspected in the future.

Ferroseed - Very annoying and tanky. Lack of good fires can provide a lot room for Ferro to setup. Lack of fighting types makes Ferro a good choice to come in on popular attackers such as Silvally, Rapidash-Galar, etc.

Meta is half baked as most of the stuff is locked away in higher tiers or is not available yet. Half of the mons are barely viable by default of no competition. Interesting to see how Home will effect things.