Metagame [Spoilers] Monotype Generation 9 Pre-Release Discussion

[Zap]

With a lot more information released about Gen 9, use this thread to discuss the upcoming metagame for Monotype Generation 9!

All data mined information collected thus far is presented in the thread here.

For a more visually pleasing and all in one source, refer to this doc. Just note that this information on here is not fully verified and is subject to change.

With all that being said, use this information for the basis of your discussion, stay civil, and have fun!

 

[Neko]

Visualization of all the Pokemon for reference
Notes: still exists

Normal

Losses:
The loss of Porygon line may be quite scary for normal teams, as they now lack a very sturdy wall that threatens birds (Flying-types)
No more immunities :>

Gains:
However, the return of , , and the existence of new Pokemon in Hisui-Zoroark, Cyclizar, and the Mouse thing (possible 10 hit move with Technician) might give it a nice shot in the meta :o
*Mouse gets DD + Defog, which, with Technician, could be scary

Dragon

Losses:
but we have a new Ice Dragon thats a bit offensively inclined
No more cheesing steel
No more semi fast mon with utility, for now

Gains:
>Roaring Moon is too op, might get banned XP (If this gets Dragon Dance, its unstoppable at +1, especially considering Og Mence's coverage)
>Tatsugiri has a respectable statline and neat typing, might be something to take note of (It however has a bad movepool)
>Baxcalibur shares Kyurem's typing is said to have a move thats DD + Defog (Debunked, its the Mouse that gets it). Considering its bulk and speed + Power, this might be the mon who influences at around what speedtier choice scarf users may be :o
Staples like Hydreigon, Dragalge, Dragapult, and Garchomp remain, so its not too bad for Dragons, though losing Kommo-o makes Normal matchup harder....

Fairy

Losses:
The Tapu's ;w;
What entry hazard stacking and poison immunity

Gains:
>Fluttermane and Iron Valiant would be staples for Fairy teams, due to their insane wallbreaking prowess (based on statlines)
>Tinkaton might not be a meme if it gets a thick club-esque item
>Klefki is gone, so the screens setter would be Grimmsnarl. No Clef either, so Screamtail / Wiggly would be the Stealth Rock Setter. Azumarill remains to be a good Physical Attacker to stave off stinky Ground-types
>Enamorous, contrary go brr :o (Depends on the movepool though, but its almost an upgrade to Togekiss)

Ground

Losses:
Sandless ground my beloved
Another W for Dragon
Rip Special Attackers
Sadness.

Gains:
>Toadscruel as an Azumarill counter might be plausible
>Sandy Shocks is cool for zapping Birds as Mamo isnt there to help us
>Iron Treads looks a bit Excadrill-ish, but is nowhere as strong enough
>Great Tusk may be a good addition too
>Poopsire is a nice alternative to Gastrodon due to its neutrality to Grass, immunity to Water, and bulk
>Landorus-T, Garchomp, Gastrodon, and Krookodile remain though, and help out Ground, but the lack of special attackers kinda hurts

Fighting

Loss:
But will be back in DLC because of ...stuff

Gains:
>Pawmot, an Elec/Fight mon with a nice Speedtier and Volt Absorb. Can also apparently revive a fainted mon.
>Iron Valiant, a mon with a good other type (Fairy), Speed Tier, and looks to match
>Annihilape, a part Ghost-type mon with a decent speedtier. It might deal enough to break up walls, and is faster than CS Gardevoir :O
>Buffed Gallade, might be nice for Poison as it loses its speedier options + no Aegis means press Band CC to win (Gimmeghoul line oof)
>Great Tusk for Toxapex, and another Elec immune
>Quaquaval is appealing, but the speedtier is...questionable
>Past Volcarona is a threat if it gets Victory Dance (Phys Quiver Dance), allowing it to blow past Psychic-types (but wont do much to Poisons, though)
Hawlucha, Toxicroak, Breloom, and G.Zap remain as solid options
Overall, Fight might be very potent pre-dlc if no one gets banned, Imo

Psychic

Losses:
Imagine losing your most splashable mon
Rip Psychic
>:(

Gains:
>Psychic Ostrich (Espathra) has Speed Boost, and not too terrible Special Attack, depends on the movepool though if its good or a dud
>Buffed Gallade might be worth using while Victini is not present
>Veluza with Sharpness and not too bad Attack might be worth looking into, though probably Scarfed?
>Wyrdeer and Farigiraf seem a bit...off, but are options
>Armarougue is our Victini replacement, and its fast-ish enough for Steel, but the Speed is still lackluster + awkward Choice Scarf user if ever
>Screamtail is a probable entry hazard setter but I have no idea what this mon is trying to accomplish based on its spread
>Hatterene, Indeedee, and Bronzong return to support Psychic teams, with Gardevoir as a way to stave off Water teams (since Ground has no reason to use sand for now)
>As there's a ton of Ghost-types and Dark-types this gen, Psychic might have it rough until Tapu Lele and friends return

Ghost

Losses:
But we get a fluffy ghost dog to absorb the Knock Offs
No more Electric immunities for u
one less speedtier to be scared of
but we get Gimmighoul's line, which is a bit more offensively inclined

Gains:
>Hisui Zoroark provides a Ghost-type immunity for Ghost teams and has a serviceable speed tier
>Basculegion provides wallbreaking with adaptability + not flat out horrible Speedtier
>Houndstone is a fluffy doggo that can absorb knock offs, but will it have decent longevity like galarian corsola though?
>Annihilape provides a way to smash those pesky Dark-types alongside Mimikyu. Has Defiant too, so Spikestack w/ Froslass might be a neat concept
>Ceruludge with Weak Armor, it might be a good Physical attacker I guess?
>Ghouldengo is an interesting Pokemon by virtue of statline, but depends on the movepool if it can be a good fit for Ghost. It'll definitely help Steel however-
>Brambleghast has a decent speedtier and not too bad typing, and may be the key in helping matchups like Water and Ground
>Skeledirge is weird but could be looked into
>Fluttermane be like Spectrier 2.0, and would form a very dangerous Ghost-spam core with Gengar and Spectrier
>Staples like Gengar, Spectrier, Mimikyu, and Froslass return to provide Speed and utility for Ghost teams.
>Overall, even though there's a ton of Dark-types existing, Ghost might be fun to play as (though its speedtiers are rather...all over the place)

Poison

Losses:
There seems to be no Ground-immune for poison this gen. Hooray! :3c
Steel / Poison matchup is gonna be worse + about to get mowed by Elec spam
We have stinky and overquill
Options for hitting birds are now more limited...

Gains:
>HO Poison might be viable, with Iron Moth, Toxicroak, Glimmora, Toxtricity, and Gengar. Overquill, if its anything like the original Quillfish and has Spikes, would be the facilitator if ever
>Revavroom gets Shift Gear, possibly being a nice setupper too.
>Glimmora has an interesting ability, possibly letting Toxapex not run Tspikes
>Toxapex and Amoongus return as the Regenerator duo (defensive backbone) for Poison teams, though the Recover nerf makes them slightly worse
>As this gen features waaay too many offensive threats and only so much walls to handle them, Poison might be in a bad spot in the metagame (Infil Toxic Crobat would've helped...)

Dark

If getting new Pokemon were a gacha, then Dark would've been the guy who got 5 SSRs in a single pull. How, and why is this possible?
Losses:
Overquill might have Tspikes
And the era of balance dark might be gone

Gains:
A lot.
>Kingambit would be an extremely scary threat in Screens HO, esp if its left as the last mon standing, under screens. Its bulk is also really high, and it just clicks Sucker Punch 90% of the time anyway
>Roaring Moon. 105/139/71/55/101/119 stats. Under Screens. With DD. Have fun :D
>Iron Jugulis competes with Galarian Moltres due to its immediate potency + speed tier which lets it possibly get away with just Nasty Plot
>Chien-Pao is a Weavile thats buffed harder, but depends if it has access to Triple Axel, Knock Off, and Swords Dance. Its still a potent revenge-killer however
>Chi-Yu is a better Houndoom, though Jugulis/Goltres should be enough to decimate Steel teams
>Meowscarada has a decent speedtier and Protean. Depends on the movepool though, and Zarude might still be the better Choice Scarf user between the two because of Zarude's coverage + higher Attack (unless Gatito gets Close Combat too, then Zarude is now entirely ouclassed outside of Bulk Up sets, and even then Grass starters tend to learn Swords Dance)
>Grimmsnarl returns to set screens for Dark teams
>staples like Tyranitar, Sableye, Krookodie, Greninja (Prot user #2), and Weavile remain to assist Dark teams in breaking stuff up.
>On the side note, Hoopa is back. Will it be retested, if ever?

Steel

Losses:
Durian's gone...
And so is half of the SpDef sponge...
And Steel's counter to its counters...
And our other steel birds...
And the revenge-killer...

Gains:
>Gholdengo may be able to push Steel teams to a more offensive direction, especially since half the defensive pivots are gone. It also complete's Steel's immunity core, making it happy despite the losses
>Revavroom may be a decent pick, assuming its able to learn Toxic Spikes. Filter is also cool, though it probably still falls to Earthquakes
>Revavroom gets Shift Gear, possibly being a nice setupper too.
>Iron Treads kinda feels like Excadrill as it will likely have Rapid Spin and shares a similar typing, but having a worse ability and attack would be kinda sad
>Orthworm is an interesting mon as it provides a Ground immunity without the Electric weakness, but fitting it in seems off
>AV Kingambit may be used to cope for the lack of Melmetal. Otherwise, its steel a pretty powerful setup sweeper/last stand-esque mon Steel teams have, if ever.
>Heatran and Corviknight return to form the immunity core for Steel teams
>stuff like Lucario, Magnezone (Magneton), Bisharp might be appealing to fill the gap and help transition the type to be a bit more offensive (as it lacks passive mons now)

Grass

Losses:
No more defensive pivots
Nor the setup beater
We have Spicy Pepper for Chlorophyll
Special attackers are gone too
Kinda niche to begin with, but smacking Poisons was always nice

Gains:
>Meowscarada provides an excellent speedtier for grass teams, possibly even compensating for the lack of Whimsicott if it gets Play Rough (cats...play roughly too, so it makes sense if ever)
>Scovillain has a fun typing but has an awkward speed (slightly under Heatran, too) tier. It'll be able to smack Corviknight really well however
>Wo-Chien has decent all around stats, but stacking weaknesses to U-turn is unideal for Grass
>Liligant-Hisui, especially if it gets Victory Dance might be a threatening wallbreaker for Grass teams with Hustle (just don't miss)
>Electrode-Hisui is fast, but hits like peanuts so its not helping grass teams that much...I think
>Brambleghast provides a special attacker with a serviceable speedtier, but depends on its coverage if its worth using
>Breloom, Rillaboom, Amoongus, and Zarude remain to support Grass teams, but without Ferrothorn or Cradily to set hazards, it feels like Grass will have a hard time until Durian returns, at least. That, or it transforms into some sort of HO

Flying

Losses:
Reduced Defensive core
Since...last gen
Gains:
>Enamorous, though Flying usually has the dragon matchup covered
>Kilowattrel, an Electric-immunity thats faster than Thund-I and has recovery too
>Iron Jugulis competing with Goltres, as above, but Jugulis would be better due to only needing to use Nasty Plot over double dance because of the speed, possibly.
>not much, but most of Flying staples remain, making it possibly still the best type in the meta

Water

Losses:
When your only Electric immune is Quag and Gastrodon
Misty terrain as a whole is also gone for now + Dragons are covered by Greninja
Breaking Poison is slightly harder now, though not impossible due to Future Sight + Teleport
Though people prefer Urshifu-R anyway
Gains:
>Swift Swim Basculegion could be quite scary, but Barraskewda outclasses this unless it gets a better move over like...Phantom Force
>Iron Bundle as the Freeze-Dry check with the pivoting required to pull it off? It has an insanely good statline too
>Palafin, a mon with base 160 Attack...when sent out the second time, with base 100 Speed. Gets Flip Turn to facilitate the process too, but finding a spot for it on a rain team feels hard
>Quaquaval can be an option over Urshifu-R due to Speed Boosting move + Moxie + access to Acrobatics might separate it from Urshifu-R?
>Pelipper returns as the premier weather setter, and Barraskewda's still here to stay
>Staples like Rotom-W, Toxapex, Slowking, and Gastrodon form a nice defensive backbone, while Volcanion, Greninja, Urshifu-R, and Cloyster provide offenses

Electric

Losses:
F
but we have Pawmot, which helps lots

Gains:
>Stealth Rock users in Iron Thorns (tho finding a slot for it is difficult)
>Physical attackers in Pawmot, Iron Thorns, Iron Hands (has belly drum too)
>Pawmot provides a second chance to sweepers like Specs Zapdos, Regieleki
>Ice Terastal Regieleki
>Future Mon's abilities get activated under terrain, which is a double edged sword for this type. A factor to consider before slapping terrain on your team, too
>Nothing much to be said, staples like Rotom-W, Magnezone, Zapdos, Alolan Raichu, and Regieleki are in, and one has to make do with pinchurin until Koko comes back

Only missing Rock, Ice, Fire, and Bug, most of which I dont use that much, so I'd leave these for other people + my braincell has been overworked
Ty for reading my incoherent post if you reached this far, ahaha

 

[Rex Slayer]

Hyper offense is going to be crazy in gen 9, I hope noivern will finally get what it deserves! I'm little sad flying lost some of it's defensive core

 

[DreamPrince]

By the way according to Datamine, the only notable Defoggers are going to be Lilligant, Frosmoth, and Braviary. Thankfully Boots should be in this game, so it won’t be as bad but hazard stacking might me more viable than ever, especially if Pokémon Home doesn’t permit transfers.

On a brighter note, really excited to try Ghost this Gen on Hyperoffense, between Hisuian Zoroark, Paradox Misdreavus, and Annihape, Ghost actually has some really good options to combat Dark, Normal, and Ghost, some of its hardest matchups alongside the returning crew of Dragapult, Mimikyu and Gengar.

 

[Ronman5]

I’m so happy flying gets to suck for like Ah few months like the average new gen quota till home when Landorus comes back…. Per the new gen quota, will post more detailed thoughts when I’m off work but I’m impressed with what I’ve seen so far in buffing types heavily like Ice or normal (once home drops) along with interesting mons in this game and when home comes (example for me personally Kleavor)

 

[Newfi Cheese]

Hi! I play Rock. I would like to talk a bit about Rock in the new gen, and why I think it's going to go from arguably the worst type in the game to completely unviable. I am usually able to hover around 1500-1600s depending on the MU luck of the day, but now I have no idea how you would ever consistently win matches. Let's get into it!

What Rock Loses

THE BIG STUFF

While I personally don't run Shuckle, I prefer the Trick Room variant of Rock, it's still a big loss. Shuckle is a great, consistent source of both rocks and webs, and the cornerstone of the aptly named Webs Hyperoffense. With the loss of the main Trick Room mon (More on that later) both playstyles of Rock are now dead. Yay!

Terrakion is arguably the most important mon for Rock. Great speed tier, made even better with scarf. Great coverage, and bulky enough to take a neutral hit. Premier late game cleaner or revenge sweeper. Losing it is a big drop in power and speed control.

(Only image I could find, sorry) I talked about this a bit a few days ago in the viability ranking, but Nihilego is crucial for Rock. By far the best special attacker, and Power Herb Meteor Beam is the best way to get rid of pesky physical walls and free up the rest of the team. Great sweeping potential with Beast Boost into certain matchups as well. Tough loss!

I think Rhyperior is SUPER underrated for Rock. The best check around for soooo many physical attackers. Your best option against most steel types, fighting types, ground types, you name it, Rhyperior has your back. It can take some water or grass type moves, like Ferrothorn Power Whip, and secure the KO in return with Weakness Policy. There are TONS of type matchups where preserving your Rhyperior as a counter is crucial. Huge defensive and offensive loss.

Another mon that I don't personally use a ton, but recognize the value. Best mon for dealing with ground types, and a strong shell smash sweeper. With all these other strong mons going out, it could be Barbaracle's time to truly shine, but alas...

NO BACKUPS
Don't worry! Even the mid tier Rock types are gone now! Let's talk about them.

The other Rock special attacker! Losing HP Grass hurt a lot this gen, but it was still effective, and the only other option if you don't feel like using Nihilego. Can use both Meteor Beam and Shell Smash sets, which can catch opponents off guard.

Best Ground Type switch in (Barring Air Balloon shenanigans), and decent choice bander. Didn't get much time to shine in SS because of superior options, but also won't do much in Gen 9 because it doesn't exist!

Crazy Trick Room sweeper. With Air Balloon it can find times to swap in and wreck havoc. Losing it is essentially the death of Trick Room, as without it, there just isn't enough offensive threat for it to be worth it.

A deeply flawed pokemon that still holds a certain niche in Rock for being able to swap into water type moves, and much more valuably, demolish electric type teams (Once Zeraora and Magnezone are dealt with that is). Now it can't do either of those things though, because it's dead!

Seems like a lot right? A majority of these are a staple of Rock teams. Have no fear though, certainly the new stuff is good, right?

What Rock Gains

Rock finally gets access to an Intimidate mon, and despite middling stats, it seems like a decent pick up. Great answer to Rillaboom, but too frail and with way too many weaknesses to be an actually effective pivot. With such few options, this is probably going on the team though!

lol

Just a joke of a typing. Didn't work with Aurorus, isn't going to work here either, especially not with such a hyper offensive team. Doesn't matter how big your defense is with that many 4x weaknesses.
Klawf
I think it's just too slow. With Shell Smash it could work, but afaik it doesn't get that. Regenerator isn't going to work on a pure rock type either, again, rock just plays too offensively for it to function. Something to keep an eye out for though, with Focus Sash and Swords Dance there is potential for it to be a threat.
Garganacl
This intrigues me. Super interesting ability, being immune to status with decent bulk has huge potential upside, and a ghost resistance is like... a thing? Access to recovery as well. Salt Cure won't actually matter against Water or Steel types, since they'll probably just knock it out long before the damage racks up.
Glimmora
Embrace your new special attacker. Auto include on every team for that reason essentially. It doesn't look bulky enough to make use of it's ability unfortunately, but decent coverage makes it a potential new choice scarfer.
Iron Thorns
With Booster Energy you get a one-time +1 to attack. Not bad with stats like that, and it has fantastic coverage. Pretty slow and not particularly bulky though, and the 4x weakness to ground hurts a lot considering the omnipresence of EQ. Unimpressive.

And that's it! Yay..... I think it's pretty clear that what's being lost is not equal to what's being gained, which really hurts on an already bottom-tier type.

That basically concludes my thoughts on each mon. I don't know how rock is going to play now. There's some good new defensive mons added, but I just don't think Rock can ever play defensive. I'll still play Rock, but I might wait until DLC drops to actually try and ladder, because the type just doesn't seem viable. Thanks for reading if you did!

EDIT: Realized I forgot Kleavor! My bad. Kleavor has impressive attack, and a damage boosting ability, but it's frail and not fast enough to be a truly threatening choice scarfer. Regardless, it's a pretty damn good typing and again, other weak options means that it's probably a lock on the team.

 

[Zach Parrott]

MonoIce looks kinda unplayable now. It loses Alolan Ninetales, Piloswine/Mamoswine, Kyurem, Galarian Darmanitan, Alolan Sandslash, and Arctozolt, along with Weavile potentially being nerfed (transfer moves potentially being removed). The only things Ice really gains are Weavile 2 (Chien-Pao), Cetitan (which is not Arctozolt 2), and Baxcalibur (which is a decent replacement to Kyurem but the two do very different things). Ice right there with Bug, Rock, and Grass for the race to the bottom :c

EDIT: Oh and Iron Bundle which is decent for its speed tier but doesn't really push the type up.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Some comments I have on takes I saw...

Hi! I play Rock. I would like to talk a bit about Rock in the new gen, and why I think it's going to go from arguably the worst type in the game to completely unviable. I am usually able to hover around 1500-1600s depending on the MU luck of the day, but now I have no idea how you would ever consistently win matches. Let's get into it!

What Rock Loses

THE BIG STUFF

While I personally don't run Shuckle, I prefer the Trick Room variant of Rock, it's still a big loss. Shuckle is a great, consistent source of both rocks and webs, and the cornerstone of the aptly named Webs Hyperoffense. With the loss of the main Trick Room mon (More on that later) both playstyles of Rock are now dead. Yay!

Terrakion is arguably the most important mon for Rock. Great speed tier, made even better with scarf. Great coverage, and bulky enough to take a neutral hit. Premier late game cleaner or revenge sweeper. Losing it is a big drop in power and speed control.

(Only image I could find, sorry) I talked about this a bit a few days ago in the viability ranking, but Nihilego is crucial for Rock. By far the best special attacker, and Power Herb Meteor Beam is the best way to get rid of pesky physical walls and free up the rest of the team. Great sweeping potential with Beast Boost into certain matchups as well. Tough loss!

I think Rhyperior is SUPER underrated for Rock. The best check around for soooo many physical attackers. Your best option against most steel types, fighting types, ground types, you name it, Rhyperior has your back. It can take some water or grass type moves, like Ferrothorn Power Whip, and secure the KO in return with Weakness Policy. There are TONS of type matchups where preserving your Rhyperior as a counter is crucial. Huge defensive and offensive loss.

Another mon that I don't personally use a ton, but recognize the value. Best mon for dealing with ground types, and a strong shell smash sweeper. With all these other strong mons going out, it could be Barbaracle's time to truly shine, but alas...

NO BACKUPS
Don't worry! Even the mid tier Rock types are gone now! Let's talk about them.

The other Rock special attacker! Losing HP Grass hurt a lot this gen, but it was still effective, and the only other option if you don't feel like using Nihilego. Can use both Meteor Beam and Shell Smash sets, which can catch opponents off guard.

Best Ground Type switch in (Barring Air Balloon shenanigans), and decent choice bander. Didn't get much time to shine in SS because of superior options, but also won't do much in Gen 9 because it doesn't exist!

Crazy Trick Room sweeper. With Air Balloon it can find times to swap in and wreck havoc. Losing it is essentially the death of Trick Room, as without it, there just isn't enough offensive threat for it to be worth it.

A deeply flawed pokemon that still holds a certain niche in Rock for being able to swap into water type moves, and much more valuably, demolish electric type teams (Once Zeraora and Magnezone are dealt with that is). Now it can't do either of those things though, because it's dead!

Seems like a lot right? A majority of these are a staple of Rock teams. Have no fear though, certainly the new stuff is good, right?

What Rock Gains

Rock finally gets access to an Intimidate mon, and despite middling stats, it seems like a decent pick up. Great answer to Rillaboom, but too frail and with way too many weaknesses to be an actually effective pivot. With such few options, this is probably going on the team though!

lol

Just a joke of a typing. Didn't work with Aurorus, isn't going to work here either, especially not with such a hyper offensive team. Doesn't matter how big your defense is with that many 4x weaknesses.
Klawf
I think it's just too slow. With Shell Smash it could work, but afaik it doesn't get that. Regenerator isn't going to work on a pure rock type either, again, rock just plays too offensively for it to function. Something to keep an eye out for though, with Focus Sash and Swords Dance there is potential for it to be a threat.
Garganacl
This intrigues me. Super interesting ability, being immune to status with decent bulk has huge potential upside, and a ghost resistance is like... a thing? Access to recovery as well. Salt Cure won't actually matter against Water or Steel types, since they'll probably just knock it out long before the damage racks up.
Glimmora
Embrace your new special attacker. Auto include on every team for that reason essentially. It doesn't look bulky enough to make use of it's ability unfortunately, but decent coverage makes it a potential new choice scarfer.
Iron Thorns
With Booster Energy you get a one-time +1 to attack. Not bad with stats like that, and it has fantastic coverage. Pretty slow and not particularly bulky though, and the 4x weakness to ground hurts a lot considering the omnipresence of EQ. Unimpressive.

And that's it! Yay..... I think it's pretty clear that what's being lost is not equal to what's being gained, which really hurts on an already bottom-tier type.

That basically concludes my thoughts on each mon. I don't know how rock is going to play now. There's some good new defensive mons added, but I just don't think Rock can ever play defensive. I'll still play Rock, but I might wait until DLC drops to actually try and ladder, because the type just doesn't seem viable. Thanks for reading if you did!

EDIT: Realized I forgot Kleavor! My bad. Kleavor has impressive attack, and a damage boosting ability, but it's frail and not fast enough to be a truly threatening choice scarfer. Regardless, it's a pretty damn good typing and again, other weak options means that it's probably a lock on the team.

You seem to miss a few things. Klawf for one is more than usable, no shell smash, but trail blaze + anger shell and a base 75 speed means you can easily end up with +1 offenses and +2 speed while using a grass attack. On top of that Klawf has Crabhammer, meaning that aside from ground/dragons it can do real damage to ground monos with Trailblaze vs. ground/waters and Crabhammer vs. everything else.

Arcanine Hisuian isn't just an intimidate attacker, it gets the ability Rock Head over justified now along with Head Smash and Flare Blitz. Off a Choice band, and with no Heatran on Steel, Arcanine destroys just about everything in sight, 2HKOing Hoodra and defensive walls while OHKOing most else, all the while taking zero recoil. Head Smash 2hkos Skarm and kills most things Flying has, this mon's stab combination alone DESTROYS defensive cores for multiple types, all the while being having the option to run an intimidate set for Scizor as you said.

There's no Omastar, but Rock has a brand new water/rock shell smasher in DREDNAW. 74 base speed, ice coverage, water stab, and a ton of options, this is the new premiere Rock Shell Smasher.

Glimmora as you said is the new special attacker, but we'll see how much utility it has. Corrosion on it is an option but honestly I think Arcanine alone covers steel, overall new toy that's fun.

I think you underestimate Iron Thorns as well and it's potential in the water matchup, plus it's coverage has alot. Main issue is special D drop but Eletric/Rock is pretty solid typing overall, and with fire punch there's potential for a Scizor Check.

On top of this Rillaboom doesn't have Grassy Glide, meaning the grass v. rock won't be totally unwinnable. Either way I see rock right now as having a more than winnable matchup vs. Ground with counterplay for grass and steel.

MonoIce looks kinda unplayable now. It loses Alolan Ninetales, Piloswine/Mamoswine, Kyurem, Galarian Darmanitan, Alolan Sandslash, and Arctozolt, along with Weavile potentially being nerfed (transfer moves potentially being removed). The only things Ice really gains are Weavile 2 (Chien-Pao), Cetitan (which is not Arctozolt 2), and Baxcalibur (which is a decent replacement to Kyurem but the two do very different things). Ice right there with Bug, Rock, and Grass for the race to the bottom :c

EDIT: Oh and Iron Bundle which is decent for its speed tier but doesn't really push the type up.

Ice I won't entirely write off just yet, I'll agree though that it loses A LOT. One thing of note is that hail is now snowstorm, with the notable difference being a +1 to ice defenses. On top of that it's options right now are Cloyster, Froslass, Articuno, Weavile, Draxcalibur, Chien Pao, Iron Bundle. Chien Pao will definitely get banned but will be broken first bit of meta, Iron Bundle has solid stats, and Draxcalibur is a burn immune bulky DDer that boosts attack when hit by fire.
Overall my thoughts for Ice is it'll have a solid HO team, that may be a bit matchup oriented, but will honestly fare alot better than some other types.

Ice right there with Bug, Rock, and Grass for the race to the bottom :c

EDIT: Oh and Iron Bundle which is decent for its speed tier but doesn't really push the type up.

I truly don't think Bug, Rock, or Ice are racing to the bottom of this meta. Honestly the only type I've really written off was grass, but even that has gotten some goodies such as Breloom back, the snail peril, protean cat, dark amoonguss, walking squid, and overall just alot of options to try out.

Rock

To defend Rock here, I'm not sure how the steel matchup will be yet solely because of Iron Donphan's ground + steel STAB alongside a potential Scizor, and fighting will likely be rough, however it's new options give it ALOT of offensive pressure. Band Rock Head Arcanine alone 2hkos every neutral in the tier, and in the steel game it will pretty much force a sacking game with the 2 big checks being Iron Donphan and potentially Hoodra. The ground matchup no longer has Excadrill, and between Anger Shell Klawf with Trailblaze+Crabhammer+EQ it can easily introduce a sweeping scenario, with Drednaw doing the same with Shell Smash in its arsenal along side ice and water coverage.

Ice

Ice's offensive pressure this early meta I won't write off either. Chien Pao has no switchins, Delibird solos ground, all the while having a suicide lead option in froslass, and 2 amazing setup sweepers in Draxcalibur and Cloyster. I expect Ice to have some rough matchups, but especially right now I don't think people really understand how oppressive these mons will be. Either way the combination of Delibird, Cloyster, and Draxcalibur I believe will let Ice have a favorable fire matchup, and especially with Chien Pao, this monotype will absolutely destroy balance. Weavile likely won't have knock off, but iirc Triple Axel was a tutor move so chances are that's still in.

Bug

Bug is a bit limited in options but honestly it got everything this gen that I was asking for. Slither Wing gets High Horsepower, Close Combat, and Flare blitz, making it a solid steelbreaker that's also capable of breaking in poison cores alongside Volcarona. Slither Wing also gets trailblazer, flame charge, morning sun, and bulk up, meaning it can opt for sets to perform different roles or prolong longevity. Scizor gets technician boosted trailblazer, and with scald pretty much out, I believe will be very difficult to handle for balanced or bulky waters. Not to mention but Bullet Punch will be as oppressive as ever in the fairy matchup, with tapu lele not in the game yet. Kleavor I consider a great option for a scarf, if sharpness is only a 1.2x boost, adamant scarf would be able to ohko max hp Arcanine while also setting up rocks. It's ability to threaten fire and flying while acting as a hazard setter cannot be understated. Sharpness also boosts X-Scissor (and fury cutter if you want to meme). The combination of a winning mu vs. dark and fairy already makes Bug a solid option for anti meta imo. Normal has always been a favorable matchup for bug, though perhaps some changes may need to be made as the meta approaches, with new toys on normal such as Cyclizar and hisuian zoroark. Either way, forretress is huge in this matchup, maybe a few stat changes need to be made to better handle zoroark without solid special sponges like armaldo or araquanid, but between slither wing and scizor/kleavor getting Close Combat, I honestly favor bug here. Bug's last slot has a variety of options as well, between hera/rabsca/venomoth/vivillon, and some lower viability things like Scyther for the fighting mu or Masquerain for a webs lead. Hera is neat for allowing Slither Wing/Kleav to opt for sets you want to try. Veno/Vivi's sleep powder can't be understated, especially in an early meta where types have overly busted mons. Rabsca's ability to revive a mon may be worth using an otherwise F tier mon. The other bugs that are new don't seem worth, perhaps if Lokix had a better speed+attack stat, but alas. Either way I consider bug right now a C tier antimeta type that has a few things it can play around with.

Some types I will bring up that 100% drop in viability, as everyone pointed out flying, but also Electric, and Fire will be far less viable than they are right now, and ground + steel I'm on the fence about.

Electric

Electric truly has nothing for dragapult, you would need to run physically defensive Iron Hand to have a shot, and outside of E Terrain I think that still loses the 1v1 vs. Dragapult with the exception of rng. Speaking of E-Terrain, activating it is like driving into a brick wall and saying "don't worry, I can jump out at the last second and live this". Quark Drive and any future paradox mon is just waiting for it to activate to get the free 1.5 boost on an already busted mon. Not only that but the 2 options Elec has - Hariyama and TTar, are far less dangerous with it than most of their counterparts are looking to be, perhaps making an E-Terrain Electric most viable against bulkier or slower teams where it's 2 tank paradox attackers can get an attack boost to break through cores. On the flipside, all of electric is dying the second the Iron Moth gets a special attack boost.

Fire

I'm putting fire in the exact same boat as Electric, only setting up Sun doesn't even benefit its own paradox mons. Instead you cause the opposing 135special A Specs Misdreavus to get a +1 speed boost and are now losing the game.

Ground

Ground loses Exca and Mamoswine, and Nidoking but also gets some really good options in Great Tusk and Clodsire, all the while keeping Chomp, gastro, and Hippo. Rillaboom loses grassy glide, but also just about every pokemon and its mother gets Trailblaze and Ice Spinner. These last 2 moves I don't think should be just glanced over. You have tons of stuff with Ice Spinner like Great Tusks, Tronphan, Lilligant - Hisui which straight up sweeps after setting up with Victory Dance, Azumarill, Urshifu, etc. All the while Ground just lost its ice resist, making the new variety of ice moves not only more dangerous, but old threats such as Cloyster even more difficult to deal with. Grassy Glide may be out, but Zarude just got Swords Dance, Breloom is back, Lilligant Hisui as I said sweeps on its own, and while trailblazer in itself may not seem dangerous, in the hands of pokemon such as Technician Scizor, Crabhammer Klawf, or Rillaboom may prove incredibly dangerous.

One other thing of note is that without Nidoking, or thousand arrows, pokemon such as Corviknight become impossible to deal with, especially considering that Landorus doesn't get gravity anymore. If Lando-I gets the ban again, the only way I really see ground breaking an Iron Defense Corv is with Garchomp clicking fire blast and hoping that the 8pp Roost debuff is enough to win the match.

Poison

Losses:
There seems to be no Ground-immune for poison this gen. Hooray! :3c
Steel / Poison matchup is gonna be worse + about to get mowed by Elec spam
We have stinky and overquill
Options for hitting birds are now more limited...

Gains:
>HO Poison might be viable, with Iron Moth, Toxicroak, Glimmora, Toxtricity, and Gengar. Overquill, if its anything like the original Quillfish and has Spikes, would be the facilitator if ever
>Revavroom gets Shift Gear, possibly being a nice setupper too.
>Glimmora has an interesting ability, possibly letting Toxapex not run Tspikes
>Toxapex and Amoongus return as the Regenerator duo (defensive backbone) for Poison teams, though the Recover nerf makes them slightly worse
>As this gen features waaay too many offensive threats and only so much walls to handle them, Poison might be in a bad spot in the metagame (Infil Toxic Crobat would've helped...)

Uhhh Neko, Fire has no Heatran, and poison has Iron Moth. Just give it a specs and kill everything lol. Plus I guess there's no Nido but with Clodsire/Dragalge options, someone'll will figure out a comp that handles Elec fine and isn't terrible. Plus if it's E-terrain Iron Moth kills shit in like 1 hit

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Oh also, Last Respects if it isn't banned OHKOs everything. 50BP +50BP per KOd mon on your team and Adaptability Basculegion gets it. Give it a band and the damage calc is something like 190% on max Def Ferro when it's the last mon.
For reference
5 allies KOd: 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Basculin Last Respects vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 576-678 (163.6 - 192.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
3 Allies KOd: 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Basculin Last Respects vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-454 (109 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
1 Ally KOd: 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Basculegion Last Respects vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sableye gets screens, might as well say goodbye to Misdreavus + Spectrier (which also gets psychic + draining kiss now)

The 4 perils are busted, their abilities act like Auras not like intimidate, meaning even stuff like Mirror Armor won't block it, and mons switching in get the debuff. This means that everything around Chi-Yu has a special D Debuff, and around Chien Pao a defense debuff. Chien Pao gets multiple priority moves, stuff like throat chop, sacred sword, and icicle crash, and Chi Yu calcs show it 2hkoing assault vest Slowking.
For reference
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 272-324 (69 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 321-378 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 177-208 (50.2 - 59%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The other two Perils work similarly, with Ting-Lu debuffing Special attack of all other mons while having 155/125/80 bulk, and Wo Chien debuffing attack while having 85/100/135 bulk, thankfully it's Chien Pao and Chi Yu that get recover and not them, though Wo Chien does have leech seed.

Some other things of note - Urshifu, Zarude, and Cinderace all have Swords Dance now. I saw Neko comment about Meowscara, no point in it being the setup mon with the protean debuff imo, though that wouldn't apply to a choice set where you use it anyway since it gets Play Rough. Huge plus for Dark there.

Also, Annihilape has 110 HP and Final Gambit, might as well final gambit KO toxapex or something and then revival blessing with Pawmot.

 

[Neko]

Neko, Fire has no Heatran

it comes when home drops (apparently)

Corviknight become impossible to deal with,

For ground:
Sandy Shocks would help with that, though with the genies (or the thunderbird ( Kilowattrel ) in the meantime) around it would be harder to snipe it, but its better than having nothing at all

Clodsire

I forgot about him, but wont he be a bit too passive if ever?

 

[Aschmaros]

Hi everyone, whilst I wish I could come out with a detailed post, that will unfortunately have to wait whilst I compile more information and calculate some things. In the mean time, I wanted to pose a question on if Terastallizing will stay in Monotype or get banned. Whilst the full mechanics of Terastallizing isn't known, from what I know currently, this mechanic will shake up Monotype in either a really good way or a really bad way. Considering you can Terastilize any of your pokemon, can choose any of the types (I feel as though someone said each pokemon has a select number of types, but what I'm saying still applies so long as each pokemon had a good selection of types) whilst also the typing you choose being unknown to your opponent could very easily end badly where you can't fight against your opponent until its too late.
Theres also a chance that as everything else, everyone will agree on "the best" typing and it becomes easily predictable, I think that Terastallizing will allow for previous impossible or heavily skewered matchups to shift and become more favorable for certain types. (think Ice vs Steel or something)

 

[TheWyvernKing]

it comes when home drops (apparently)


For ground:
Sandy Shocks would help with that, though with the genies around it would be harder to snipe it, but its better than having nothing at all (or the thunderbird ( Kilowattrel ) in the meantime)


I forgot about him, but wont he be a bit too passive if ever?

Missed Heatran I guess, but yeah that'll stop Poison for sure. Also had a braindead moment with Sandy Shocks, I literally looked up it's type saw that it was electric/ground, and then I guess somehow that registered in my brain as not a ground type.

Clodsire I can see being useful on ground moreso than poison. For example if electric decides to run Specs Chloroblast Electrode-Hisui, Clodsire is kinda important to not get absolutely ruined. High roll OHKOs Offensive Chomp, max hp Tronphan still would need a low roll to survive, and since there's no ice shard Mamo, you gotta either let it die of recoil or have a scarf cause..
252 SpA Choice Specs Electrode - Hisui Chloro Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Threads: 355-418 (110.5 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Electrode - Hisui Chloro Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 303-357 (84.8 - 100%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Electrode - Hisui Chloro Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 304-358 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Even if you went full max hp/spd chomp it's like an 80% 2hko after lefties with no rocks up, whereas Clodsire avoids the 2HKO entirely -
252 SpA Choice Specs Electrode Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 192-226 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
Anyhow yeah he's passive, Yawn helps a bit vs. sets without sub and it does get a bunch of hazards, but comp wise I can see him as useful for the water immunity on ground while checking some grass mons.

Losses:
When your only Electric immune is Quag and Gastrodon

Outside of the loss of momentum Gastro really isn't an L here, both Gastro and Quag get rocks + spikes this gen and unlike those 3 mons have reliable recovery. Even past gens Gastro had solid cores on water, but loss of Scald is a big oof. I think water's big issue this gen is how easy it is to take advantage of.

 

[ken]

Hi everyone, whilst I wish I could come out with a detailed post, that will unfortunately have to wait whilst I compile more information and calculate some things. In the mean time, I wanted to pose a question on if Terastallizing will stay in Monotype or get banned. Whilst the full mechanics of Terastallizing isn't known, from what I know currently, this mechanic will shake up Monotype in either a really good way or a really bad way. Considering you can Terastilize any of your pokemon, can choose any of the types (I feel as though someone said each pokemon has a select number of types, but what I'm saying still applies so long as each pokemon had a good selection of types) whilst also the typing you choose being unknown to your opponent could very easily end badly where you can't fight against your opponent until its too late.
Theres also a chance that as everything else, everyone will agree on "the best" typing and it becomes easily predictable, I think that Terastallizing will allow for previous impossible or heavily skewered matchups to shift and become more favorable for certain types. (think Ice vs Steel or something)

The mechanics are described here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lview?pru=AAABhJMsvHY*sP5CfcuNH_ah_V67BWj7qQ#

If you choose not to check the datamine doc yourself, I'll paste it in a spoiler below:

Spoiler

Offensive Type

If you change into a different type, you keep your previous STABs, while gaining one on your new type. If you change into one of your base type, you'll have a STAB bonus on this type. - Charizard changing to Water gives it a STAB of ×1.5 on Water, Fire and Flying. - Charizard changing to Flying gives it a STAB of ×2 on Flying, and of ×1,5 on Fire. This lasts until the end of the battle.

Defensive Type

You change into your Tera-Type completely, as a monotype. Charizard Terastalizing into Water will make it a pure Water-type, weak to Electric and Grass, and resisting to Fire, Ice, Steel and Water. This lasts until the end of the battle.

 

[Aschmaros]

The mechanics are described here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lview?pru=AAABhJMsvHY*sP5CfcuNH_ah_V67BWj7qQ#

If you choose not to check the datamine doc yourself, I'll paste it in a spoiler below:

Spoiler

Offensive Type

If you change into a different type, you keep your previous STABs, while gaining one on your new type. If you change into one of your base type, you'll have a STAB bonus on this type. - Charizard changing to Water gives it a STAB of ×1.5 on Water, Fire and Flying. - Charizard changing to Flying gives it a STAB of ×2 on Flying, and of ×1,5 on Fire. This lasts until the end of the battle.

Defensive Type

You change into your Tera-Type completely, as a monotype. Charizard Terastalizing into Water will make it a pure Water-type, weak to Electric and Grass, and resisting to Fire, Ice, Steel and Water. This lasts until the end of the battle.

Thank you very much, and it seems like it works exactly as I thought it would. Very interested to hear everyone else's thoughts regarding this new mechanic!

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Hi everyone, whilst I wish I could come out with a detailed post, that will unfortunately have to wait whilst I compile more information and calculate some things. In the mean time, I wanted to pose a question on if Terastallizing will stay in Monotype or get banned. Whilst the full mechanics of Terastallizing isn't known, from what I know currently, this mechanic will shake up Monotype in either a really good way or a really bad way. Considering you can Terastilize any of your pokemon, can choose any of the types (I feel as though someone said each pokemon has a select number of types, but what I'm saying still applies so long as each pokemon had a good selection of types) whilst also the typing you choose being unknown to your opponent could very easily end badly where you can't fight against your opponent until its too late.
Theres also a chance that as everything else, everyone will agree on "the best" typing and it becomes easily predictable, I think that Terastallizing will allow for previous impossible or heavily skewered matchups to shift and become more favorable for certain types. (think Ice vs Steel or something)

I'd imagine terras stay for a little bit, solely to "test it out", but the example I like to use is fighting vs. fairy. Normally it's a bad matchup for fighting, except now we have terra types. All of a sudden my Hariyama terrastylizes to steel while they use a fairy attack, I use belly drum, and all of a sudden I am a 4X attack Steel type Hariyama spamming bullet punch vs. mono fairy. B drum azumarill doesn't typically have superpower, and needs a low roll to live BP. Tapus aren't in so tapu lele can't stop priority, and while a babiri berry fairy with a fire move isn't unheard of - Hariyama has thick fat so it lives anyhow. Klefki with Foul play would win the 1v1 but since that typically takes damage early in, it becomes unable to defeat Hariyama unless it keeps over 70% health, otherwise it gets 2hkod after setting up Reflect. Now all of a sudden it's either sack a win condition for fairy in Klefki - needed for the choiced sneasler in the back, or sack another mon so you can have your steel type so sneasler can't spam gunk shot. Something gets KOd. 1 mon was defeated when Hariyama setup, fairy needs to hope the Hariyama has 0 bulk investment and the fairy user opts to let Azumarill lose 70% or so.

Now, if klefki gets below 70% and Azumarill gets KOd prior to the setup, there's not a whole lot fairy can do. Iron Valiant can knock out Hariyama, but it gets OHKOd through reflect prior to that. With thick fat most fairies don't have anything that can really handle a hariyama at over 50% health. Life Orb Clefable does under 30% with Flamethrower, maybe a high roll with fire blast does 35%. Offensive Speedy Enamorus gets OHKOd through Reflect, and max hp investment slower Enamorus form has a 30% chance to live from moves like thunder punch and rock slide. If the fighting user opted for double steel stab with heavy slam then that Enamorus is gone, and the match is pretty much set.

My point in all of this is that in monotype, no matter the meta, you will see teams opt one pokemon as a "Water Killer" or "Steel Killer", with Water Killer Seismitoad on Ground being one example of this. Designating a pokemon to cover a weakness. Terra types will take this to the utmost extreme. Perhaps there will be few options for what terra type a pokemon will have, but if there's enough variability, especially with which monos get what terra options, then I doubt the mechanic would be anywhere near healthy. In the ladder and room tours I expect it to be a bit more like I said, teams using terra to smurf a bad matchup so they have as many good matchups as possible. But when there becomes clear S Tier types, I imagine the terra crystals would change to become anti meta techs that players wouldn't be able to predict or prepare for. And in tours such as MWPL or MPL, I think it'll become even more clear the effect on the meta especially in prepping for matches in team tours, but I fully imagine it to just extrapolate matchup fishing.

 

[ken]

You also have to think about what this mechanic would mean specifically for this tier. We've seen type changing abilities before with Protean and Libero, but they're temporary and for or per single moves (prior to this gen, where mechanics have changed and essentially nerfed them - only activating once each time your Pokémon is brought out). Besides the actual centralization the mechanic would cause for specific checks and counters on varying types (which is hard to do much other than speculate about without being able to test it out beyond theorycrafting in the calculator), it's worth thinking about how allowing any Pokémon on your team change to nearly any type for not just a few turns, but the duration of the battle, would change the actual definition of Monotype. If the gimmick is deemed non-banworthy when the time comes in regards to its competitive use, you can make arguments on both sides with respect to it altering (or tainting, depending on your perspective) what "Monotype" means.

 

[Newfi Cheese]

Some comments I have on takes I saw...



You seem to miss a few things. Klawf for one is more than usable, no shell smash, but trail blaze + anger shell and a base 75 speed means you can easily end up with +1 offenses and +2 speed while using a grass attack. On top of that Klawf has Crabhammer, meaning that aside from ground/dragons it can do real damage to ground monos with Trailblaze vs. ground/waters and Crabhammer vs. everything else.

Arcanine Hisuian isn't just an intimidate attacker, it gets the ability Rock Head over justified now along with Head Smash and Flare Blitz. Off a Choice band, and with no Heatran on Steel, Arcanine destroys just about everything in sight, 2HKOing Hoodra and defensive walls while OHKOing most else, all the while taking zero recoil. Head Smash 2hkos Skarm and kills most things Flying has, this mon's stab combination alone DESTROYS defensive cores for multiple types, all the while being having the option to run an intimidate set for Scizor as you said.

There's no Omastar, but Rock has a brand new water/rock shell smasher in DREDNAW. 74 base speed, ice coverage, water stab, and a ton of options, this is the new premiere Rock Shell Smasher.

Glimmora as you said is the new special attacker, but we'll see how much utility it has. Corrosion on it is an option but honestly I think Arcanine alone covers steel, overall new toy that's fun.

I think you underestimate Iron Thorns as well and it's potential in the water matchup, plus it's coverage has alot. Main issue is special D drop but Eletric/Rock is pretty solid typing overall, and with fire punch there's potential for a Scizor Check.

On top of this Rillaboom doesn't have Grassy Glide, meaning the grass v. rock won't be totally unwinnable. Either way I see rock right now as having a more than winnable matchup vs. Ground with counterplay for grass and steel.



Ice I won't entirely write off just yet, I'll agree though that it loses A LOT. One thing of note is that hail is now snowstorm, with the notable difference being a +1 to ice defenses. On top of that it's options right now are Cloyster, Froslass, Articuno, Weavile, Draxcalibur, Chien Pao, Iron Bundle. Chien Pao will definitely get banned but will be broken first bit of meta, Iron Bundle has solid stats, and Draxcalibur is a burn immune bulky DDer that boosts attack when hit by fire.
Overall my thoughts for Ice is it'll have a solid HO team, that may be a bit matchup oriented, but will honestly fare alot better than some other types.



I truly don't think Bug, Rock, or Ice are racing to the bottom of this meta. Honestly the only type I've really written off was grass, but even that has gotten some goodies such as Breloom back, the snail peril, protean cat, dark amoonguss, walking squid, and overall just alot of options to try out.

Rock

To defend Rock here, I'm not sure how the steel matchup will be yet solely because of Iron Donphan's ground + steel STAB alongside a potential Scizor, and fighting will likely be rough, however it's new options give it ALOT of offensive pressure. Band Rock Head Arcanine alone 2hkos every neutral in the tier, and in the steel game it will pretty much force a sacking game with the 2 big checks being Iron Donphan and potentially Hoodra. The ground matchup no longer has Excadrill, and between Anger Shell Klawf with Trailblaze+Crabhammer+EQ it can easily introduce a sweeping scenario, with Drednaw doing the same with Shell Smash in its arsenal along side ice and water coverage.

Ice

Ice's offensive pressure this early meta I won't write off either. Chien Pao has no switchins, Delibird solos ground, all the while having a suicide lead option in froslass, and 2 amazing setup sweepers in Draxcalibur and Cloyster. I expect Ice to have some rough matchups, but especially right now I don't think people really understand how oppressive these mons will be. Either way the combination of Delibird, Cloyster, and Draxcalibur I believe will let Ice have a favorable fire matchup, and especially with Chien Pao, this monotype will absolutely destroy balance. Weavile likely won't have knock off, but iirc Triple Axel was a tutor move so chances are that's still in.

Bug

Bug is a bit limited in options but honestly it got everything this gen that I was asking for. Slither Wing gets High Horsepower, Close Combat, and Flare blitz, making it a solid steelbreaker that's also capable of breaking in poison cores alongside Volcarona. Slither Wing also gets trailblazer, flame charge, morning sun, and bulk up, meaning it can opt for sets to perform different roles or prolong longevity. Scizor gets technician boosted trailblazer, and with scald pretty much out, I believe will be very difficult to handle for balanced or bulky waters. Not to mention but Bullet Punch will be as oppressive as ever in the fairy matchup, with tapu lele not in the game yet. Kleavor I consider a great option for a scarf, if sharpness is only a 1.2x boost, adamant scarf would be able to ohko max hp Arcanine while also setting up rocks. It's ability to threaten fire and flying while acting as a hazard setter cannot be understated. Sharpness also boosts X-Scissor (and fury cutter if you want to meme). The combination of a winning mu vs. dark and fairy already makes Bug a solid option for anti meta imo. Normal has always been a favorable matchup for bug, though perhaps some changes may need to be made as the meta approaches, with new toys on normal such as Cyclizar and hisuian zoroark. Either way, forretress is huge in this matchup, maybe a few stat changes need to be made to better handle zoroark without solid special sponges like armaldo or araquanid, but between slither wing and scizor/kleavor getting Close Combat, I honestly favor bug here. Bug's last slot has a variety of options as well, between hera/rabsca/venomoth/vivillon, and some lower viability things like Scyther for the fighting mu or Masquerain for a webs lead. Hera is neat for allowing Slither Wing/Kleav to opt for sets you want to try. Veno/Vivi's sleep powder can't be understated, especially in an early meta where types have overly busted mons. Rabsca's ability to revive a mon may be worth using an otherwise F tier mon. The other bugs that are new don't seem worth, perhaps if Lokix had a better speed+attack stat, but alas. Either way I consider bug right now a C tier antimeta type that has a few things it can play around with.

Some types I will bring up that 100% drop in viability, as everyone pointed out flying, but also Electric, and Fire will be far less viable than they are right now, and ground + steel I'm on the fence about.

Electric

Electric truly has nothing for dragapult, you would need to run physically defensive Iron Hand to have a shot, and outside of E Terrain I think that still loses the 1v1 vs. Dragapult with the exception of rng. Speaking of E-Terrain, activating it is like driving into a brick wall and saying "don't worry, I can jump out at the last second and live this". Quark Drive and any future paradox mon is just waiting for it to activate to get the free 1.5 boost on an already busted mon. Not only that but the 2 options Elec has - Hariyama and TTar, are far less dangerous with it than most of their counterparts are looking to be, perhaps making an E-Terrain Electric most viable against bulkier or slower teams where it's 2 tank paradox attackers can get an attack boost to break through cores. On the flipside, all of electric is dying the second the Iron Moth gets a special attack boost.

Fire

I'm putting fire in the exact same boat as Electric, only setting up Sun doesn't even benefit its own paradox mons. Instead you cause the opposing 135special A Specs Misdreavus to get a +1 speed boost and are now losing the game.

Ground

Ground loses Exca and Mamoswine, and Nidoking but also gets some really good options in Great Tusk and Clodsire, all the while keeping Chomp, gastro, and Hippo. Rillaboom loses grassy glide, but also just about every pokemon and its mother gets Trailblaze and Ice Spinner. These last 2 moves I don't think should be just glanced over. You have tons of stuff with Ice Spinner like Great Tusks, Tronphan, Lilligant - Hisui which straight up sweeps after setting up with Victory Dance, Azumarill, Urshifu, etc. All the while Ground just lost its ice resist, making the new variety of ice moves not only more dangerous, but old threats such as Cloyster even more difficult to deal with. Grassy Glide may be out, but Zarude just got Swords Dance, Breloom is back, Lilligant Hisui as I said sweeps on its own, and while trailblazer in itself may not seem dangerous, in the hands of pokemon such as Technician Scizor, Crabhammer Klawf, or Rillaboom may prove incredibly dangerous.

One other thing of note is that without Nidoking, or thousand arrows, pokemon such as Corviknight become impossible to deal with, especially considering that Landorus doesn't get gravity anymore. If Lando-I gets the ban again, the only way I really see ground breaking an Iron Defense Corv is with Garchomp clicking fire blast and hoping that the 8pp Roost debuff is enough to win the match.

Uhhh Neko, Fire has no Heatran, and poison has Iron Moth. Just give it a specs and kill everything lol. Plus I guess there's no Nido but with Clodsire/Dragalge options, someone'll will figure out a comp that handles Elec fine and isn't terrible. Plus if it's E-terrain Iron Moth kills shit in like 1 hit

Hey! Thanks for responding, and you're absolutely right, I did miss stuff. I wasn't being super thorough, only checked a few new moves, and didn't check much on what old pokemon were getting, I.E. Drednaw picking up Shell Smash. I obviously didn't see Trailblaze, being able to pick up a second speed boost is huge and absolutely makes Klawf a proper threat. Rock Head HArcanine is interesting. You didn't know about Heatran ofc, but removing Heatran has never been a huge problem for Rock, and once that's out of the way there's serious steel sweeping potential, something Rock has essentially never had.

I'm still on the fence about Iron Thorns. You pointed out the water counter, but I really see it struggling to take out the omnipresent water/ground types, most likely Gastrodon in the upcoming generation, as well as still being weak to water and generally being slow. Again, as we both said, great coverage, but I'm just not wow'd.

Of course, the best news of all is left for last. No Grassy Glide on Rillaboom. Oh my god. Rock will actually be able to play the game against Grass and not just click X. Thanks for all this information, you've reinvigorated my belief in Rock. Let's shoot for D tier! Maybe even C!

 

[Breeze Sea]

MonoIce looks kinda unplayable now. It loses Alolan Ninetales, Piloswine/Mamoswine, Kyurem, Galarian Darmanitan, Alolan Sandslash, and Arctozolt, along with Weavile potentially being nerfed (transfer moves potentially being removed). The only things Ice really gains are Weavile 2 (Chien-Pao), Cetitan (which is not Arctozolt 2), and Baxcalibur (which is a decent replacement to Kyurem but the two do very different things). Ice right there with Bug, Rock, and Grass for the race to the bottom :c

EDIT: Oh and Iron Bundle which is decent for its speed tier but doesn't really push the type up.

Alolatails and Darm are the big losses, everything else has a replacement. Despite the snow buff, until we get alolatails back I don't think snow is going to be the primary mode for a lot of effective ice teams. This reminds me a lot of gen 6 ice where you ran mons like frosslass and avalugg to just have a chance to check certain matchups and not get auto swept by certain mons. I don't think baxcalibur will be particularly effective barring it being a pivot/helping out with some neutral matchups. The biggest addition I'm excited to play with is iron bundle. Could maybe see the return of rain/duel weather ice, similar to how a few people ran lapras in gen 6.

The best thing to happen to ice this gen might be Steel's defensive core getting gutted. Fighting could take its spot as the biggest threat especially when terrakion gets added. The lack of Ice/Psychic will hurt, and could lead to some Articuno teams(another mon that pairs well with rain or snow).

Also keep an eye out for Cetitan on some teams. It is a little redundant with Baxcalibur but having 3 good abilities and very solid speed for slush rush is super interesting. Also beartic could definitely get some runway before scarf terakion gets added back in.

TLDR: Ice, especially if Chien-Pao gets banned, could be at its worst place since gen 6. The big swing factors will be iron bundle and Baxcalibur and how viable they turn out to be.

 

[GeneralNameless]

Hi guys, just wanted to preface this with the fact that this isn't a particularly competitive assessment, and that I don't really play the monotype metagame often, even if I play monotype teams. But, I wrote this up and posted it in the big S/V leaks thread earlier today, and I thought I'd repost it here if in case anyone was interested. Its just an assessment of the new Pokemon in retrospect with the Paldean Dex. Spoiler for length.

Overview of Ground Pokemon

Clodsire
130/75/60/45/100/20 (Total: 430)
Poison/Ground
Poison Point/Water Absorb/Unaware
I love this big dope. The special bulk on Clodsire is unmatched by its kin, and will likely be a common pick just for that. Water Absorb on a non-Water/Ground Pokemon helps open up team planning a bit, and Unaware builds will stop a whole truckload of special sweepers. The Ice weakness will probably hold it back as a Water Absorber, however. Might also be a decent Counter user with its high HP, low defense, and reliable recovery. It also has access to all the hazards and perfectly accurate Toxic. Not too shabby for a pool float.

Toedscruel
80/70/65/80/120/100 (Total: 515)
Ground/Grass
Mycelium Might
No mon with this statline should get a detrimental ability. Yet that's the case here, with the Mold Breaker status-edition being a underwhelming consolation prize given it will only come into play against a small handful of Paldean Pokemon. But yes, its got Spore alongside screens, rapid spin, hazards, and is the only user of Trick Room. Notably, before the arrival of Landorus, its also the only Ground resist that mono-Ground has access to. Likely to play support, but there's potential for a bulky SubSeed set here, and maybe it could have some offensive presence on a Sun team with its otherwise decent speed. Disappointed, but I find its design absolutely hilarious.

Ursaluna
130/140/105/45/80/50 (Total: 550)
Ground/Normal
Guts/Bulletproof/Unnerve
With good bulk and fantastic attack, Ursaluna is a monster. Guts gives it a status immunity and even more monstrous offenses, and Bulletproof gives it an assortment of useful immunities to moves like Aura Sphere, Focus Blast, Energy Ball, Seed Bomb, and Bullet Seed. It gets Belly Drum, but lacks the speed to make much use. Yawn and Taunt are there for a bit of tech, but really it'd be a waste on Ursaluna because it lacks for nothing in coverage. Voted most likely to be the team's Terra, hope the crown looks good on it when it finally arrives.

Ting-Lu
155/110/125/55/80/45 (Total: 570)
Dark/Ground
Vessel of Ruin
With a similar stat line to Ursaluna and Great Tusk, its the bulkiest and least offensive of the three. Vessel of Ruin synergizes well with mono-Ground teams in a doubles format, and would work well with Krookodile if they didn't share the same typing. The move pool here isn't that great, with Normal, Rock, Steel, Psychic, and Fighting as coverage options. Whirlwind might be useful since you've got hazards galore, but no Knock-Off. Looks to me like something to pair with an Assault Vest for an offensive tank that can come in on many attackers.

Great Tusk
115/131/131/53/53/87 (Total: 570)
Ground/Fighting
Protosynthesis
This thing is so gnarly looking, like damn. Anyway, the concept here is another stereotypical Ground statline, but this time featuring a salvageable speed. Sun synergizes with mono-Ground, and its got access to the always useful Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Offensive move pool is good, although this comes at the cost of six weaknesses. Ice Spinner is also a notable coverage option to pair with Ground and Fighting. Also, apparently this thing gets Psyshock? Surely that's a mistake?

Iron Treads
90/112/120/72/70/106 (Total: 570)
Ground/Steel
Quark Drive
Although I like the design less than Great Tusk, this robot Donphan is more necessary and interesting in terms of team building. It brings great resistances, notably Dragon as its mono-Ground's only Dragon resist in Paldea outside Dugtrio-A . Its also got good speed, and its statline is flexible enough where speed, attack, and even defense could be set up to benefit from Quark Drive. There's standard wheel elephant access here to Rapid Spin and Knock Off, along with Ice Spinner which will be great for hitting dragons. Its also got Electric moves, notably a hard-hitting Volt Switch and Wild Charge.

Sandy Shocks
85/81/97/121/85/101 (Total: 570)
Electric/Ground
Protosynthesis
Last but certainly not least, its one of the best special attackers mono-Ground has ever had access to. This punk rocker dances over the crowded 100 speed tier, and similar to Iron Treads can adjust its EVs to make speed the benefiting stat at minimal cost to its special attacking EVs. It doesn't really bring any useful resistances to the team, nor much in the way of coverage, but has a flexible enough move pool to play both offensive and supportive rolls. Its got screens, t-wave, hazards, can set both e-terrain and sun, and is notable as the only Gravity user available. Likewise, Volt Switch is there to help maintain momentum.

Pretty pleased with the selection of mons this time around, the last two generations didn't really introduce any new Ground Pokemon that really rocked the boat. I am fairly disappointed in the lack of new Ground-type moves, outside Headlong Rush, and just the lack of choice in abilities here. Still, very happy with the new mons. Once I get familiar with them in Paldea I look forward to bringing them to the Nat Dex.

 

[Day Healer]

I just did a compendium using the info datamined here and here. I avoided the NU mons, but posting everything that had at least a small niche. Will update with missing sprites when possibile

Bug

Stealth Rock:

Spikes:

spidops
Toxic Spikes:

spidops
Sticky Web:

spidops
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

lokix rabsca slither-wing

Dark

Stealth Rock:

bombirdier ting-lu kingambit
Spikes:

meowscarada ting-lu
Toxic Spikes:

meowscarada
Sticky Web:
Defog:
Rapid Spin:

samurott-hisui lokix brute-bonnet roaring-moon iron-jugulis chien-pao wo-chien chi-yu

Dragon

Stealth Rock:

Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin: tatsugiri cyclizar

goodra-hisui baxcalibur roaring-moon

Electric

Stealth Rock: sandy-shocks iron-thorns
Spikes:

sandy-shocks iron-thorns
Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

electrode-hisui pawmot kilowattrel iron-hands

Fairy

Stealth Rock:

scream-tail tinkaton
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:
Sticky Web:
Defog:
Rapid Spin:

flutter-mane iron-valiant

Fighting

Stealth Rock: annihilape great-tusk
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

decidueye-hisui lilligant-hisui
Rapid Spin: quaquaval

tauros-2 tauros-3 pawmot flamigo slither-wing iron-hands iron-valiant

Fire

Stealth Rock:

arcanine-hisui
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

iron-moth
Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

tauros-2 typhlosion-hisui skeledirge scovillain chi-yu armarouge ceruledge

Flying

Stealth Rock:

bombirdier
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:

Defog:

braviary-hisui
Rapid Spin:

kilowattrel flamigo iron-jugulis

Ghost

Stealth Rock:

annihilape
Spikes:

brambleghast
Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin: brambleghast

typhlosion-hisui zoroark-hisui skeledirge gholdengo flutter-mane ceruledge

Grass

Stealth Rock:
Spikes:

meowscarada brambleghast toedscruel
Toxic Spikes:

meowscarada toedscruel
Sticky Web:
Defog:

decidueye-hisui lilligant-hisui
Rapid Spin:

brambleghast toedscruel

decidueye-hisui electrode-hisui arboliva scovillain brute-bonnet wo-chien

Ground

Stealth Rock: all
Spikes:

clodsire sandy-shocks ting-lu toedscruel
Toxic Spikes:

clodsire toedscruel
Sticky Web:
Defog:
Rapid Spin:

toedscruel great-tusk iron-treads

Ice

Stealth Rock: avalugg-hisui
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

avalugg-hisui

cetitan baxcalibur iron-bundle chien-pao

Normal

Stealth Rock:

Spikes:
Toxic Spikes:
Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

cyclizar

zoroark-hisui farigiraf arboliva maushold grafaiai

Poison

Stealth Rock: glimmora clodsire
Spikes:

clodsire glimmora
Toxic Spikes: all
Sticky Web:
Defog:
Rapid Spin:

revavroom grafaiai iron-moth

Psychic

Stealth Rock:

scream-tail
Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:
Defog:

braviary-hisui
Rapid Spin:

rabsca farigiraf veluza armarouge

Rock

Stealth Rock: all
Spikes:

glimmora iron-thorns
Toxic Spikes: glimmora
Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

avalugg-hisui

arcanine-hisui

Steel

Stealth Rock:

orthworm iron-treads tinkaton kingambit
Spikes:

orthworm
Toxic Spikes:

revavroom
Sticky Web:
Defog:

Rapid Spin:

iron-treads

goodra-hisui gholdengo

Water

Stealth Rock:

Spikes:

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:

Defog:
Rapid Spin: quaquaval tatsugiri

tauros-3 samurott-hisui veluza palafin iron-bundle

 

[Scrapyard_Dragon]

hisuian zoroark disguised as kanto tauros is gonna be hilarious once home transfer opens up. both of them can just click terrablast as their main stab regardless of their terra type or even if they're intended to terrastalize, because hey, either way you get stab. ergo, h-zoro running whatever item it wants in conjunction with say, a choice banded tauros will lead to some fun mind games. did you get ko'd by tblast? could be either one of them. switching in a ghost won't save you because the tauros might just click terra and kill it with terra-dark. but it may also be zoroark and just shadowball you to death.
honestly you could replace tauros with, pretty much any other normal type attacker because I fully expect every normal type to run terrablast because why not, but the point is the same. Obviously this goes down the drain if monotype bans terrastalize (which I hope it doesn't. dynamax was a horrible mechanic but it would be nice to actually use the generational gimmick this time around) but a guy can dream.

 

[readyletsgo]

I assume Terrastralizing will be allowed off the bat as a token but, I just don't see how it can last more than a week or two. Definitely not as long as Dynamax, and that was hella broken. I just can't imagine a meta game more broken by random type changing in the middle of battle than MONOYTPE.

 

[Scrapyard_Dragon]

Obviously it would require some actual playtesting to be sure, but I do think it would be nice as a means of being able to push through otherwise unwinnable matches. Keep in mind that you need to pick each pokemon's terra type ahead of time (whereas the most thought anyone put into teambuilding regarding dynamax was 'which of these gets the right typed moves to turn into a sweeper for free' and 'should i run an otherwise terrible move because it gives me good coverage if I click dynamax') so I think that in monotype specifically it will mostly be used as emergency buttons chosen at team creation to the different things a teamcomp otherwise has no real answers for, but hey, if the fairy team manages to get past the dragon that abruptly turned into a steel type, they can then proceed to get back to moonblasting the five other big lizards cowering behind it. In all honesty I can't help but feel everyone screaming "ban terra" is just traumatized by dynamax, but terra types being something you need to actual pick ahead of time makes it another part of teambuilding that I don't want to see immediately thrown into the trash. Maybe type A SHOUDLN'T be an easy win against type b every single time y'know?

 

[Neko]

Obviously it would require some actual playtesting to be sure, but I do think it would be nice as a means of being able to push through otherwise unwinnable matches. Keep in mind that you need to pick each pokemon's terra type ahead of time (whereas the most thought anyone put into teambuilding regarding dynamax was 'which of these gets the right typed moves to turn into a sweeper for free' and 'should i run an otherwise terrible move because it gives me good coverage if I click dynamax') so I think that in monotype specifically it will mostly be used as emergency buttons chosen at team creation to the different things a teamcomp otherwise has no real answers for, but hey, if the fairy team manages to get past the dragon that abruptly turned into a steel type, they can then proceed to get back to moonblasting the five other big lizards cowering behind it. In all honesty I can't help but feel everyone screaming "ban terra" is just traumatized by dynamax, but terra types being something you need to actual pick ahead of time makes it another part of teambuilding that I don't want to see immediately thrown into the trash. Maybe type A SHOUDLN'T be an easy win against type b every single time y'know?

Here are some edge cases where tera might get iffy:

Your inbuilt response to regieleki is that you switch your Ground-type (or Electric-type) immunity in such as Landorus-T into it so that you wont be at risk of this mindlessly sweeping your team. It terastalizes to Ice and OHKO'es Landorus (252 SpA Regieleki Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 48 SpD Landorus-Therian: 496-588 (129.8 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO [HP Ice is Terablast set at 80 BP, with the correct Tera type]). Sure, it'll take 25% every time regieleki switches into rocks now, but that doesnt change the fact that ur main wall in Landorus and your likely wincon in DD Dragonite are now in big trouble, aside from eleki still having STAB Electric.

Always had difficulty bypassing Heatran and/or Dragons. With Terastalization to Ground, it safely OHKOes spdef heatran at +1 (+1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 556-660 (144 - 170.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO), while turning its x4 weak to Rock, nil. It then goes to sweep Steel much faster [which is a blessing for bug teams]. Alternatively, you can Terastalize to Dragon, allowing you to be harder to revenge-kill and give Garchomp or similar Dragons a beating.

BD + Aqua Jet is actually pretty strong in monotype, but what if you Teratyped to Water? I dont have a visualization on what can happen (calc cant handle Huge Power + Adaptability anyway), but its much easier to chip the opposing team to the point that Azu can clean late-game. The same goes for Specs Dragapult with Tera Ghost, etc.

Terastalization to steel for Dragon monotype isnt half bad; Levitate lets you be immune to Ground moves, while for Fighting you have Dragapult and for Fire you have the rest of the team. Now Fairies are going to shake in fear on a mon thats supposed to be veryy allergic to Fairy as its now much harder to take down [you can forego need Tera Blast here, I think, as Lamethrower + Dpulse already hits all fairies bar a select few]

Edit: Was supposed to add in Scarf Annihilape to the list of mons that can probably wreak havoc ....but with shadow punch as its only good Ghost move, it flops... likeee (252 Atk Adaptability Primeape Shadow Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 156-188 (39.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). That aside, Adaptability-boosted Urshifu formes having a good chance at 2HKO'ing bulky fairies/grasses with their signature move if using a Choice Band is quite humorous. So much for Checks and Counters...

Because these are all hypothetical test cases, we really wouldnt know for sure how terrible it'll be yet, but you can say that "oh, I can just Tera too". Yes, but that doesnt mean that the game might be lost on the spot because your wincon accidentally gets sniped :<

 

[Rex Slayer]

be ready for my sticky web hyper offensive flying