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OU SPL XII - RBY Discussion
- Thread starter emma
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[RAI] MetalGro$$ vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[CLA] rozes vs SMB [WOL]
[SCO] Serpi vs Kiichikos [SHA]
[BIG] Tiba vs Nails [CRY]
[TIG] SadisticNarwhal vs spies [TYR]
[CLA] rozes vs SMB [WOL]
[SCO] Serpi vs Kiichikos [SHA]
[BIG] Tiba vs Nails [CRY]
[TIG] SadisticNarwhal vs spies [TYR]
I see you're also not one to miss out on an opportunity to stoke controversy. Even in the current metagame I still like Rhydon a lot.
I guess I do find that standard Miedon is an annoying team to use when you face ice lax. Where it's nice to have an extra mon capable of forcing Lax out since Chansey and your own Lax can't really do it. But ice lax has a terrible matchup against Gengar and Cloyster, both of which are plausible partners for a Rhydon (Gengar good at chipping Eggy, Cloyster good at exploding on Starmie) provided you are careful not to let all your sources of paralysis die (Gengar is nice for that since it protects you from the good ol Jynx one-two, although Cloyster also can do that too to an extent).
I'm a huge Gengar fan generally, and I agree with all of this. And there will always be Body Slams in every game, so turning a 30% chance of getting of getting paralysed into like a 15% chance of getting paralysed because there is a 50/50 chance your opponent will quake is always amazing. It's also very good at forcing a sleep past a sleeping mon, since a lot of stuff that often is used to block sleep doesnt like to face it (starmie obv and Chan doesnt want to get exploded on), AND it gets a lot of opportunities to come in to attempt the sleep, due to its normal immunity.
I think the reason Gengar is very matchupy is the fault of the all normal laxes (and quakeless Tauroses, which, as you know, I am not a fan of), rather than the Gengars. They are a little too common. Which is in part due to the Cloysters, which Lax really likes to have Hyperbeam for. But Cloy only had 3 uses... It's not like it's Exeggutor or something.
[Edit] - Oh yeah I forgot to post my highlight of the round. Which was in g1 Tiba vs Metalgro$$, where Tiba has his Gengar in a position to Hypnosis against Chansey, and Metalgro$$, having an all normal Lax, attempts to sleep fodder it. But Tiba, knowing there is no way that Chansey will stay in just Thunderbolts. And now Metalgro$$ was royally screwed, he has made it abundantly clear that Lax can't touch Gengar, and Tiba has all the time in the world to tbolt him again, and then goes for the Hypnosis as Metalgro$$ accepts the fact that there is no way he can force his lame-duck Snorlax to take the sleep and switches it out.
Update on prizes. I'll be offering one month of Discord Nitro (the $5 version) to the winner at the end of the season!
My picks:
My picks:
- [RAI] MetalGro$$ vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
- [CLA] rozes vs SMB [WOL]
- [SCO] Serpi vs Kiichikos [SHA]
- [BIG] Tiba vs Nails [CRY]
- [TIG] SadisticNarwhal vs spies [TYR]
- [RAI] MetalGro$$ vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
- [CLA] rozes vs SMB [WOL]
- [SCO] Serpi vs Kiichikos [SHA]
- [BIG] Tiba vs Nails [CRY]
- [TIG] SadisticNarwhal vs spies [TYR]
- [RAI] MetalGro$$ vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
- [CLA] rozes vs SMB [WOL]
- [SCO] Serpi vs Kiichikos [SHA]
- [BIG] Tiba vs Nails [CRY]
- [TIG] SadisticNarwhal vs spies [TYR]
"Hi Emma, im a rby enthusiastic and I'll like to know if you would do in the rby spl discussion thread what nalorium did in BW, give some hl sets and hl teams that would be so cool"
The people asked, and I am here to deliver
The people asked, and I am here to deliver
Sets and Team Highlights - WEEK 1
thank you to Kiichikos and Melanie uwu for your help uwu
Thunder Wave Counter Chansey
Chansey
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
Tiba vs. MetalGro$$ - Game 3 - Turn 39
Thunder Wave + Counter Chansey isn't "standard" for RBY, so when Chansey revealed the former on Turn 38, the chances of it being the latter went down quite a bit as it was most likely not Triple OHKO. This led to MetalGro$$ thinking he was free to click Body Slam, which backfired horribly when Tiba responded with Counter to essentially seal the game away.
☆Tiba: byebue
Fire Blast Tauros
Tauros (M)
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Fire Blast
Heroic Troller vs. Nails - Game 1 - Turn 90
SMB vs. Kiichikos - Game 1 - Turn 38
As Melanie uwu pointed out, Fire Blast was the most common fourth move on Tauros this week. Gengar and Cloyster were only used 18% and 14% respectively in RBY Circuit Playoffs and a minuscule 9% and 11% last SPL so Fire Blast was probably chosen over Earthquake and Thunderbolt to fish for a burn in a Tauros War happened. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Earthquake surges in usage after Gengar's whopping 29% usage and 71% win rate this week. Funnily enough, Fire Blast burned both times it was used so maybe Heroic Troller and SMB will stick with it!
H I G H L I G H T T E A M
Serpi vs. SadisticNarwhal - Game 2
Gengar, Articuno, and Zapdos is quite the exciting way to fill out a team after the big three. Gengar lead was quite popular and very successful this week due to the lack of Earthquake Tauros and Rhydon as well as its ability to get off a Hypnosis immediately. Both Zapdos and Articuno can switch into Earthquakes that Gengar hates, while the latter can OHKO Rhydon with Blizzard for the former two. Gengar also has the added benefit of being able to boom on Chansey after getting sleep off, which helps both birds, but especially Articuno since it's hard walled by Chansey. Hipmonlee explains the Gengar + Zapdos core in more details here. Serpi also used Sing Chansey as a backup Sleeper incase they had to sack Gengar to opposing Sleep.
There were some other cool sets (Kiichikos's Lead Jolteon and SadisticNarwhal's Reflect / Amnesia / Ice Beam / Rest Snorlax) but unfortunately they didn't do much in their games :( Finding unique sets to highlight in RBY is a little hard, so I tried to go for less common sets that found success this week.thank you to Kiichikos and Melanie uwu for your help uwu
Thunder Wave Counter Chansey
Chansey
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
Tiba vs. MetalGro$$ - Game 3 - Turn 39
Thunder Wave + Counter Chansey isn't "standard" for RBY, so when Chansey revealed the former on Turn 38, the chances of it being the latter went down quite a bit as it was most likely not Triple OHKO. This led to MetalGro$$ thinking he was free to click Body Slam, which backfired horribly when Tiba responded with Counter to essentially seal the game away.
☆Tiba: byebue
Fire Blast Tauros
Tauros (M)
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Fire Blast
Heroic Troller vs. Nails - Game 1 - Turn 90
SMB vs. Kiichikos - Game 1 - Turn 38
As Melanie uwu pointed out, Fire Blast was the most common fourth move on Tauros this week. Gengar and Cloyster were only used 18% and 14% respectively in RBY Circuit Playoffs and a minuscule 9% and 11% last SPL so Fire Blast was probably chosen over Earthquake and Thunderbolt to fish for a burn in a Tauros War happened. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Earthquake surges in usage after Gengar's whopping 29% usage and 71% win rate this week. Funnily enough, Fire Blast burned both times it was used so maybe Heroic Troller and SMB will stick with it!
H I G H L I G H T T E A M
Serpi vs. SadisticNarwhal - Game 2
Gengar, Articuno, and Zapdos is quite the exciting way to fill out a team after the big three. Gengar lead was quite popular and very successful this week due to the lack of Earthquake Tauros and Rhydon as well as its ability to get off a Hypnosis immediately. Both Zapdos and Articuno can switch into Earthquakes that Gengar hates, while the latter can OHKO Rhydon with Blizzard for the former two. Gengar also has the added benefit of being able to boom on Chansey after getting sleep off, which helps both birds, but especially Articuno since it's hard walled by Chansey. Hipmonlee explains the Gengar + Zapdos core in more details here. Serpi also used Sing Chansey as a backup Sleeper incase they had to sack Gengar to opposing Sleep.
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Interesting that you say that TWave Counter Chans isn't common, my experience (mostly just screwing around on ladder) has been that it's more common than sets that replace TWave w Counter. I certainly think that Chansey can easily get away with the mono-coverage that resulsts from TW+Counter. If anything Counter is just a gimmick tho"Hi Emma, im a rby enthusiastic and I'll like to know if you would do in the rby spl discussion thread what nalorium did in BW, give some hl sets and hl teams that would be so cool"
The people asked, and I am here to deliver
Sets and Team Highlights - WEEK 1There were some other cool sets (Kiichikos's Lead Jolteon and SadisticNarwhal's Reflect / Amnesia / Ice Beam / Rest Snorlax) but unfortunately they didn't do much in their games :( Finding unique sets to highlight in RBY is a little hard, so I tried to go for less common sets that found success this week.
thank you to Kiichikos and Melanie uwu for your help uwu
Thunder Wave Counter Chansey
Chansey
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
Tiba vs. MetalGro$$ - Game 3 - Turn 39
Thunder Wave + Counter Chansey isn't "standard" for RBY, so when Chansey revealed the former on Turn 38, the chances of it being the latter went down quite a bit as it was most likely not Triple OHKO. This led to MetalGro$$ thinking he was free to click Body Slam, which backfired horribly when Tiba responded with Counter to essentially seal the game away.
☆Tiba: byebue
Fire Blast Tauros
Tauros (M)
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Fire Blast
Heroic Troller vs. Nails - Game 1 - Turn 90
SMB vs. Kiichikos - Game 1 - Turn 38
As Melanie uwu pointed out, Fire Blast was the most common fourth move on Tauros this week. Gengar and Cloyster were only used 18% and 14% respectively in RBY Circuit Playoffs and a minuscule 9% and 11% last SPL so Fire Blast was probably chosen over Earthquake and Thunderbolt to fish for a burn in a Tauros War happened. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Earthquake surges in usage after Gengar's whopping 29% usage and 71% win rate this week. Funnily enough, Fire Blast burned both times it was used so maybe Heroic Troller and SMB will stick with it!
H I G H L I G H T T E A M
Serpi vs. SadisticNarwhal - Game 2
Gengar, Articuno, and Zapdos is quite the exciting way to fill out a team after the big three. Gengar lead was quite popular and very successful this week due to the lack of Earthquake Tauros and Rhydon as well as its ability to get off a Hypnosis immediately. Both Zapdos and Articuno can switch into Earthquakes that Gengar hates, while the latter can OHKO Rhydon with Blizzard for the former two. Gengar also has the added benefit of being able to boom on Chansey after getting sleep off, which helps both birds, but especially Articuno since it's hard walled by Chansey. Hipmonlee explains the Gengar + Zapdos core in more details here. Serpi also used Sing Chansey as a backup Sleeper incase they had to sack Gengar to opposing Sleep.
Also how does that highlight team fare against Don? Seems like it would a be a huge menace, since it can come in on a lot of the team and nothing really wants to switch into it, unless articuno is sure that there won't be a rock slide
Still thanks for posting this analysis, idk most of the players so predicts don't interest me but i like talking about thje game otherwise
Generally Counter+TW is rare because of a relatively recent spike in Sing Chansey usage, which leaves no space for both Counter and TW at once. To run Counter+TW you need to have other reliable sleepers and have a need for counter chansey in your build which just isn't very common; there's nothing inherently wrong with the combination, it's a matter of circumstance
Hi I made that team. The idea against Rhydon teams is that between sleep moves, Gengar and Snorlax's Explosions, and maybe even Chansey's Ice Beam if at all feasible, you will invalidate the special walls on the Rhydon team leaving only something like Rhydon+Tauros+Snorlax for the endgame, which Articuno will generally demolish with bare minimum assistance (something to switch to to scout Snorlax's potential self-destruct and that's about it). Due to Cuno's ability to endgame happily against Tauros you don't mind using your own Tauros as an emergency Rhydon switch-in if the situation calls, it's really not so bad overall. Rhydon also really doesn't come in on a lot of the team - it comes in on Gengar and Zapdos which generally don't need to be on the field much against a Rhydon team
Here's some replays of Rhydon teams collapsing against it: 1 2 3
I consider it a slightly favored match up overall tbh
Moves and Teammates | Combos Part 1 | Combos Part 2 | Leads
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Snorlax | 26 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 1 | Chansey | 26 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 1 | Tauros | 26 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Starmie | 21 | 80.77% | 47.62% |
| 5 | Rhydon | 10 | 38.46% | 60.00% |
| 5 | Alakazam | 10 | 38.46% | 50.00% |
| 5 | Jynx | 10 | 38.46% | 40.00% |
| 8 | Exeggutor | 9 | 34.62% | 77.78% |
| 9 | Jolteon | 6 | 23.08% | 16.67% |
| 10 | Cloyster | 4 | 15.38% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Lapras | 4 | 15.38% | 25.00% |
| 12 | Slowbro | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |- Missing 1 Pokemon from TIBA.
- Missing 1 Pokemon from SPIESC.
Moves and Teammates | Combos Part 1 | Combos Part 2 | Leads
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Snorlax | 50 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 1 | Tauros | 50 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Chansey | 49 | 98.00% | 51.02% |
| 4 | Starmie | 39 | 78.00% | 46.15% |
| 5 | Alakazam | 24 | 48.00% | 45.83% |
| 6 | Exeggutor | 22 | 44.00% | 63.64% |
| 7 | Jynx | 15 | 30.00% | 40.00% |
| 8 | Rhydon | 12 | 24.00% | 58.33% |
| 9 | Jolteon | 9 | 18.00% | 22.22% |
| 10 | Gengar | 7 | 14.00% | 71.43% |
| 10 | Cloyster | 7 | 14.00% | 57.14% |
| 12 | Zapdos | 5 | 10.00% | 60.00% |
| 13 | Lapras | 4 | 8.00% | 25.00% |
| 14 | Slowbro | 2 | 4.00% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Articuno | 1 | 2.00% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Victreebel | 1 | 2.00% | 0.00% |
| 15 | Dragonite | 1 | 2.00% | 0.00% |- Missing 1 Pokemon from TIBA.
- Missing 1 Pokemon from SPIESC.
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[RAI] MetalGro$$ vs SadisticNarwhal [TIG]
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
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[RAI] MetalGro$$ vs SadisticNarwhal [TIG]
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
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[RAI] MetalGro$$ vs SadisticNarwhal [TIG]
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[Edit] emma I updated my prediction by the way.
Ok, highlights of the round:
Serpi and Kiichikos's reflect Chan vs Rhydon battle, and how patient both players were. Serpi with how he got Rhydon in safely each time, and how he didnt risk wasting his health by subbing (it seemed to me like he must have known Kiichikos's last was Jolteon, so maybe that was good prep on his part?) And then Kiichikos for not letting Eggy get chipped, and covering the switch back to Chansey with Snorlax.
And then the other highlight was rozes in his g1 with SMB. Probably the best game I have seen rozes play, he seemed very aware of the opportunities and risks in that endgame, and exploited that brilliantly.
A lot of the deciding games in these series sucked nuts though. SMB rozes g2, spies narwhal g3, Serpi Kiichikos g3. It was a bit disappointing after some really exciting early games.
Also Nails must have an incredible win loss rate with Rhydon over the last couple of years.
[TYR] spies vs Hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[Edit] emma I updated my prediction by the way.
Ok, highlights of the round:
Serpi and Kiichikos's reflect Chan vs Rhydon battle, and how patient both players were. Serpi with how he got Rhydon in safely each time, and how he didnt risk wasting his health by subbing (it seemed to me like he must have known Kiichikos's last was Jolteon, so maybe that was good prep on his part?) And then Kiichikos for not letting Eggy get chipped, and covering the switch back to Chansey with Snorlax.
And then the other highlight was rozes in his g1 with SMB. Probably the best game I have seen rozes play, he seemed very aware of the opportunities and risks in that endgame, and exploited that brilliantly.
A lot of the deciding games in these series sucked nuts though. SMB rozes g2, spies narwhal g3, Serpi Kiichikos g3. It was a bit disappointing after some really exciting early games.
Also Nails must have an incredible win loss rate with Rhydon over the last couple of years.
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[RAI] MetalGro$$ vs SadisticNarwhal [TIG]
[TYR] spies vs hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
[TYR] spies vs hayburner [BIG]
[CRY] Nails vs Serpi [SCO]
[SHA] Kiichikos vs rozes [CLA]
[WOL] SMB vs Heroic Troller [RUI]
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