SM OU SPL WINNING AZU TEAM [made Blunder quit mons] [peaked #1 w/ 2170 pts]

menci

menci


hello ladies, gentlemen and anything in between.
my name is menci (the guy who got tourbanned and kicked out of the spl by hikari for the most bullshit reason ever, shoutouts to him, great guy who really cares about the users on this platform) and today i'm proud to present to you the best sm ou team of all time that just won the deciding tiebreak in spl finals. isn't that ironic, don't you think? IT'S LIKE RAAAAIIIIIIN

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Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost

more or less standard peli i guess
makes it rain
max def helps it check stuff like lando, chomp, kart, bulu, lopunny etc.
u-turn lets you get in a mon that actually does stuff unlike this ugly pelicane that is utterly useless after it got up the rain
hurricane threatens grass types like bulu, tang, venu which are aids for my team
it also oneshots medi and kart after taking a hit which is pretty cool
i used to run ice beam on that slot to fuck up zygarde, nobody cares lol, moving on


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Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Substitute

OMG IS THAT SUBSTITUTE? what are you, stupid menci? you're stalling out your own rain turns!
sit the fuck down and let me explain kid.
sub is one of the things that make this team so great
you sub up for free vs fat stuff like pex or steela that can't immediately break it and likes to throw annoying shit at you
also, people are always gonna try and pivot around a swampert -> free sub
people are gonna try to sac a mon -> free sub
it's insane how much value this move can give you if you're able to play well with it
the rest is self-explanatory, next mon


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Ferrothorn @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

gets up all hazards and is basically death fodder afterwards lol
you can throw that shit in into lele, koko, zam and bunch of other stuff and just get em up
not much else to say here really, next mon


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Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

this frog is complete nuts under rain
i've put surf over hydro because losing games because of missing gave me cancer several times
gets them up vs fat stuff (like ur mom lol, jk haha)
straight up sweeps offense teams with shuriken in rain


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Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Defog

defensive helmet torn with taunt defog
super nice pivot to throw in into grass types
defog is my counter play vs. opposing hazard stacking and tspikes
taunts defoggers, taunts rockers, taunts anything that tries to recover
really important glue in this team, love this mon
moving on


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Azumarill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Belly Drum

this team's signature mon
i really can't emphasize enough on how under appreciated azu really is in ou
at the time i've built this team, everybody ran defensive cores such as tang, pex, steela and felt safe vs. rain
it's insane how azu shits on lame ass cores like this
offensive teams get completely dismantled by aqua jet in rain
NOBODY IS SAFE
NOBODY.


threatlist

there are no threats for this team.

shoutouts to all my friends and to the amazing people who protested against the ban, i love you

alright, bye bye
 
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This is like every other rain team posted which is fine because we know it works. Braggadocio aside, here are the serious questions:

1) why Azumarill over Manaphy? Can you explain the benefits?

2) How does one handle lack of flying resist?

3) What is your counterplay for Hawlucha? Pelipper is prone to take a hit U-turning, meaning if Greninja isn’t evolved it’s a 6-0 from there.

4) What is your counter play for Belly Drum Kommo?
 
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RaikouLover said:
This is like every other rain team posted which is fine because we know it works. Braggadocio aside, here are the serious questions:

1) why Azumarill over Manaphy? Can you explain the benefits?

2) How does one handle lack of flying resist?

3) What is your counterplay for Hawlucha? Pelipper is prone to take a hit U-turning, meaning if Greninja isn’t evolved it’s a 6-0 from there.

4) What is your counter play for Belly Drum Kommo?
Click to expand...

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha in Rain: 198-234 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's hard to see Hawlucha get in and set up without taking any damage, we still don't know the actual ev spread for Torn and he also has Aqua Jet on Azumarill.
 
While the post of RaikouLover may seem a litte harsh, I understand where this is coming from. While the team features some unique twerks to standard rain (Sub on Swampert, Iapapa on Ferro, Azu over Mana), it's not like Menci reinvented the wheel, it's still very close to standard rain. Hyping the team as "the best sm ou team of all time" in combination with statements like "There are no threats to this team" make this RMT seem a little arrogant, which I also found a little irritating while reading it.

On the other hand, Menci peaked #1 with the team, so there is no denial the team works (as RaikouLover admitted). The sucess in SPL again proves the effectivness of the team (and Menci's skill). And knowing his backstory on Smogon, I think it's totally understandable that he likes to use this sucess to provoke a little, which does not hurt anyone.

To make this a rate: I think Hawucha is only a problem under Psychic Terrain; given it cannot be revenged by priority it just 6-0s. Psychic Spam also seems like a hard matchup if Ferrothorn is dead (trapped by Magnezone or hit by Focus-Blasts). Lele just renders Azu useless.
Since the team relies on Azu breaking, teams with a solid rain answer (e.g. Tangrowth, Mantine or even Alolan-Ninetailes) in combination with an Azu answer (anything that tanks +6 Jet and outspeeds, e.g. Serp, Kyurem or the Latis) are a threat.

Azu over Manaphy:

Pros:
  • Similar if not better breaking capabilities vs fat teams
  • Sweeping potential vs offense
  • Priority (to deal e.g. with weakened Hawluchas)
  • Secondary Ash-Gren check
Cons:
  • Stopped by Lele
  • Stays at half HP after Setup (--> stopped by Dragons and faster Grasses)
  • Only 1 possibility to set up (maybe 2 if one manages to pull off non-Z drum before^^)
  • Struggles to break Mega-Venu for the team
All in all a refreshing variation from standard rain, which gives a better matchup vs offense while weakening the matchup vs some balanced teams a little. I personally love the way this team plays! =)

Suggested changes:
While Substitute on Swampert is a nice gimmick that creates an advantage at times, I personally prefer Stone Edge to hit Mantine and deal with Static Zapdos (which walls Azu outside of rain). Also situational, I know, just didn't want to go without any suggestions :D

P.S.: If you are so interessted in the spreads, simply watch his youtube-videos ;) Just a little advertisment...
 
I used this team a few months back but with stone edge swampert, leftovers Ferro, and play rough over knock for azu.

I found rotom wash, Zapdos, and lele psychic spam incredibly annoying. I would definitely run stone edge swampert unless you want to risk parahax shenanigans. Lele and wash are manageable, just annoying. I’m really surprised you didn’t find Zapdos annoying though.
 
ElStefano said:
While the post of RaikouLover may seem a litte harsh, I understand where this is coming from. While the team features some unique twerks to standard rain (Sub on Swampert, Iapapa on Ferro, Azu over Mana), it's not like Menci reinvented the wheel, it's still very close to standard rain. Hyping the team as "the best sm ou team of all time" in combination with statements like "There are no threats to this team" make this RMT seem a little arrogant, which I also found a little irritating while reading it.

On the other hand, Menci peaked #1 with the team, so there is no denial the team works (as RaikouLover admitted). The sucess in SPL again proves the effectivness of the team (and Menci's skill). And knowing his backstory on Smogon, I think it's totally understandable that he likes to use this sucess to provoke a little, which does not hurt anyone.

To make this a rate: I think Hawucha is only a problem under Psychic Terrain; given it cannot be revenged by priority it just 6-0s. Psychic Spam also seems like a hard matchup if Ferrothorn is dead (trapped by Magnezone or hit by Focus-Blasts). Lele just renders Azu useless.
Since the team relies on Azu breaking, teams with a solid rain answer (e.g. Tangrowth, Mantine or even Alolan-Ninetailes) in combination with an Azu answer (anything that tanks +6 Jet and outspeeds, e.g. Serp, Kyurem or the Latis) are a threat.

Azu over Manaphy:

Pros:
  • Similar if not better breaking capabilities vs fat teams
  • Sweeping potential vs offense
  • Priority (to deal e.g. with weakened Hawluchas)
  • Secondary Ash-Gren check
Cons:
  • Stopped by Lele
  • Stays at half HP after Setup (--> stopped by Dragons and faster Grasses)
  • Only 1 possibility to set up (maybe 2 if one manages to pull off non-Z drum before^^)
  • Struggles to break Mega-Venu for the team
All in all a refreshing variation from standard rain, which gives a better matchup vs offense while weakening the matchup vs some balanced teams a little. I personally love the way this team plays! =)
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing this up. I didn’t mean to come off as harsh my questions were serious. A lot of people run rain and have issues with the same certain threats so I was genuinely curious to see how the OP handles them. This team is nearly identical to a couple in the showcase as it is hence my Manaphy vs Azu question.

The two have similar pros and cons. Manaphy is impossible for non-Pyukumuku stall to wall due to hydra-rest and can be EVed to deal with a Greninja before evolving. Greninja and Swampert already cut through offense so I’d assume the status absorption of Manaphy would be preferable.

I’d still like to see what the solution is to Kommo. It comes in on Ferro and 6-0s the team clean. Thoughts?
 
RaikouLover said:
This is like every other rain team posted which is fine because we know it works. Braggadocio aside, here are the serious questions:

1) why Azumarill over Manaphy? Can you explain the benefits?

2) How does one handle lack of flying resist?

3) What is your counterplay for Hawlucha? Pelipper is prone to take a hit U-turning, meaning if Greninja isn’t evolved it’s a 6-0 from there.

4) What is your counter play for Belly Drum Kommo?
Click to expand...

azu fucks up offense, like literally 6:0s whole teams while manaphy only gets 1 kill at best in that mu
manaphy would improve the stall mu a lot but if 1 out of 20 games is stall that just isn't worth it and most stall is still very well winnable most of the times if you're smart.
just generally a real nice wincon that you can easilly play around since the offensive mons share their counters and if you're smart and can position yourself well and keep up hazards you can even bypass the counters more ore less easily. having a mon that boosts in ONE TURN to plus 6 instantly AND has a prio that is even further boosted is just an insanely easy way to win games vs. both offense and fat builds. manaphy doesn't compete with that by far.

also, who cares about the lack of a flying resist? LOL what are you scared of, realistically speaking, tornadus t? gets fucked up by swamp, get fucked up by greninja, ferro tanks multiple hits and forces it out with gyro, azu get up a belly drum and onesots it.

hawlucha? again, why are you so scared? peli tanks and oneshots back, so just keep that healthy or just play in a smart way so it doesn't sd for free, honestly not that hard with that team. gren revenges it super easily too, doesn't even always need ash, azu too if it's low enough.

also, hawlucha is exclusively being played on offense which is pretty much the ideal matchup since azu and gren just go apeshit.

but just in general: stop having ONLY that mindset "oh, i don't wanna be weak to this, i don't wanna be weak to that" it's like you're desperately trying to find weaks. i've seen it a lot here on smogon and it makes perfect sense if you play defensive teams of course.
but bruh, this is rain. you just spam water mons and overwhelm everything up to the point where something can just clean up. trying to fix something as irellevant as having no flying resist would make this team way less ideal in way more important aspects. yes the team is weak to some combinations of mons no shit, every team is, and sm ou is a very matchup dependant meta in gerenal.
but the fact that i was able to ladder to 2170 just showcases, that i can basically win like 9/10 matchups on high ladder so once you learn how to play your cards right i actually strongly believe that this indeed the best sm ou team.

it was obviously better when it still had the surprise factors that you could play around and everyone is gonna prep for it.
but i figured i would still share it with you guys since you might enjoy seeing an actually successful team. :) i don't like the mentality of keeping everything a secret since that makes it very hard for new players to follow what's actually top tier and how to actually improve at the game.

Relatively Good said:
I used this team a few months back but with stone edge swampert, leftovers Ferro, and play rough over knock for azu.

I found rotom wash, Zapdos, and lele psychic spam incredibly annoying. I would definitely run stone edge swampert unless you want to risk parahax shenanigans. Lele and wash are manageable, just annoying. I’m really surprised you didn’t find Zapdos annoying though.
Click to expand...
ElStefano said:
Suggested changes:
While Substitute on Swampert is a nice gimmick that creates an advantage at times, I personally prefer Stone Edge to hit Mantine and deal with Static Zapdos (which walls Azu outside of rain). Also situational, I know, just didn't want to go without any suggestions :D

P.S.: If you are so interessted in the spreads, simply watch his youtube-videos ;) Just a little advertisment...
Click to expand...

stone edge on swampert? LOL fuck no. i appreciate the effort though, but this is like the worst option of them all.
why are you scared of zapdos so much? swamp still hardwalls zapdos. most of the time i'm actually able to get rid of zapdos with just swampert 80% of the time. even if it gets paralyzed, you can eq on their roost.
gren threatens it out under rain too if you're able to get it in, azu lives one hit with my spread and ko's it back with jet
it's definitely annoying, but just as any other fat mon, it gets chipped, swamp hardwalls it pretty much 100% and with clever positioning and doubles you will break though it eventually.

sub is what makes this swampert so brilliant (especially when it still had the surprise factor). it comes in handy in so many situations, it's insane. swampert is one of these mons most teams don't have a hard counter for and thus have to rely on pivoting around. sub swamp just flips the middle finger vs. that.

that should answer your questions.

cheers
 
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Only shitty mu here really is serperior which almost has no counterplay but besides that just like bulu and lele are annoying but I’ve managed to outplayed all of those so far so not impossible mus. Great team bro keep it up.
 
menci , I think that most of what you are saying is correct, but why do you have to be so cocky?

Stone Edge is definetely not "the worst option of them all". You are right that Swamp walls zapdos, but as you pointed out, one shouldn't focus too much on offensive threats when playing rain, but rather watch out for defensive threats that the team cannot overwhelm. Rocky Helmet Static Zapdos just sits on Pert and roosts as long as the rain is up, racks up passive damage and will eventually paralyze it. Beating it "80% of the time" could easily be changed to 100%. On top of that, you somehow forgot about Mantine, which is a giant defensive threat to ur team that only +6 azu can beat and only if it gets free set up (Knock is far from 2HKOing and u don't run Play Rough). Same is true for opposing Pelipper, walls Pert and annoys the rest of your team. All these mons might be played around in some other way, but Stone Edge on Pert improves the matchup a lot.

Substitute on the other hand helps with weak scald users like Pex who can't break the sub, and mons relying on passive damage like Celesteela, but if the opponent brings a defensive grass type, Sub gains nothing (You sub as they switch, u ice punch as they break the sub, u are forced out since u cannot 2HKO and they would 1HKO in return and u end up as if you ice punched immediately, but with 25% less HP).

I think both moves have their merits. Sub profits from being unexpected and often gains some additional offensive momentum, but on the long run, I think the offensive momentum of the team is alrdy sky high and the added ability to break through some additional defensive threats with Pert comes in handy. Anyway, Stone Edge is far from being outclassed by Sub in a way that justifies a "fuck no!" ;)
 
Hi, I'm new and I guess typing here is where people reads about comments and stuff, but I like your team!

I only wanted to comment that if you want extra insurance versus things like Choice Scarf Kartana or something you can run Jolly Nature over Adamant on your Mega Swampert (I think that outspeeds the Kartana if rain is current) just in case Tornadus-Therian and Ferrothorn are weakened, since I'm assuming those are your ways of beating Kartana. I have tried the team out and sometimes I play vs Zapdos with more speed than your Adamant Swampert with rain not present, and if that Zapdos has low enough HP, I can just Waterfall or Ice Punch it to finish it off without needing to switch my Pokemon, doesn't look like anything else on your team likes playing Zapdos that much.

Have a good day!
 
Hi,
nice team. i like the manaphy substitution rly much.

ElStefano said:
it's not like Menci reinvented the wheel, it's still very close to standard rain.
Click to expand...
every rain team lokked similar in the past gen's. while he technicially reinvented the weel of rain-ho, i'd still say it's notably different from the other variants. reinvention would be a lil too much, but to me u're not willing to give some credit. doesnt matter in the end lol


For me a big problem is defensive zapdos and the mirror match. not necessarily the exact mirror, but similar rain in general.
its hard for me to figure out wincons other than cleaning with azu. i often get swept by m-pert.
 
Rain doesn’t have a problem with Zapdos. Azumarill and Manaphy both set up on Zapdos. Greninja even in base form hammers it after SR. Swampert also walls Zapdos completely.

As for Kartana, Jolly + Superpower is an easy “insurance.” Superpower is probably more useful than Substitute, as it eases the Kartana, Ferrothorn, KyuremB matchup.
 
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