Sit There and Do Nothing - A Stall Team

[mewtwo15026]

Hello, Smogon! I have returned after a long hiatus during Gen 5; a couple of you veterans might remember me from ASB and my past two RMTs. Anyway, I spent Gen 5 in Ubers, but I decided to return to OU just to prove to myself that, with the nerfs to weather and critical hits, stall would still be viable. In its present state, this team has managed to get my ladder rating to hover around 1850, which is the highest I've ever been on an OU ladder; however, it still has a few kinks, which is why I'm posting here.

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Demon Toilet (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Roar

Heatran is one of my special walls, able to handle just about anything that Sylveon can't bar Nidoking. It also serves as my Stealth Rock setter and a backup plan against special boosters and things like Swords Dance Mawile that get just a little too greedy, and it's my favored response to Talonflame. Lava Plume is a handy burn inflicter, and Protect scouts for random Ground moves and helps me plan against Choiced opponents like Rotom-W.

SYNERGIES
* GROUND: Venusaur, Gyarados, Skarmory
* FIGHTING: Venusaur, Sylveon
* WATER: Venusaur, Gyarados
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Rafflesia (Venusaur) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

After I dropped the Spikes-stacking angle of my team, I lost the need for a Rapid Spinner, which opened up a teamslot for the best bulky Grass-type in OU. Mega Venusaur tanks all sorts of attacks that no Grass/Poison should have any business even staying in against (seriously, it took 54% from Flare Blitz from a Banded Infernape) and retains enough power to be a veritable offensive threat. Giga Drain punishes any Water-type bold enough to stay in, while Earthquake makes Venusaur a great response to Mega Lucario, Aegislash, and the hax-reliant demon known as Klefki. Knock Off has a variety of uses: it takes advantage of the switches that Venusaur tends to inspire, it removes Leftovers and power-boosting items to assist in stall wars, and it eliminates Assault Vests and Choice Scarves to open their holders up to Genesect.

SYNERGIES:
* FLYING: Heatran, Skarmory
* PSYCHIC: Heatran, Skarmory, Genesect
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Galvatron (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

I contemplated running a surprise physical set with U-turn, Blaze Kick, Iron Head, and Thunderbolt, but I decided that the common special set would work just fine with its superior coverage. There's not much to be said here that hasn't been said before about Genesect itself. He's usually my lead just so I don't have to predict with one of my other five, and he often comes in to snipe enemies in the midgame and endgame. Genesect is probably the best hit-and-run attacker and revenge killer in OU, and I can't think of anything I'd use to replace him.

SYNERGIES
* FIRE: Heatran, Gyarados
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Cherubim (Sylveon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Def / 36 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Mandibuzz proved a massive crimp in the craw for my team while Blissey was my special sponge, so I switched to Sylveon to hit it super-effectively without picking up unwanted weaknesses to Electric and Rock attacks (I'm looking at you, Togekiss). Heal Bell remedies the lack of Natural Cure somewhat and assists the rest of the team against random burns and Sleep Powders. I don't run Toxic because most of Sylveon's counters don't care about it, but I do miss being able to lure in and cripple things with Blissey. Hyper Voice makes up for it to some degree by allowing Sylveon to actually kill things.

SYNERGIES:
* POISON: Heatran, Skarmory.
* STEEL: Heatran, Skarmory, Gyarados
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Dyna Blade (Skarmory) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 40 SDef / 16 Spd
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Whirlwind

The physical side of my anti-setup suite and a premier Defogger, Skarmory proves its worth just about every time it takes the field. Between Defog and its stellar Defense, keeping hazards up against Skarmory is not an easy task. Whirlwind removes boosters and Substitute abusers from the battlefield; the 16 Speed EV's exist to help Dyna Blade get the jump on other Skarmory who try to phaze her, but I never really see other Skarmory anymore, so I may switch them to Special Defense. Now that I'm not occupied with Spiking, I feel more free to fire off Brave Birds, which often softens things up enough that my other attackers can clean up.

SYNERGIES:
* ELECTRIC: Venusaur. Sylveon and Heatran can comfortably take special hits.
* FIRE: Heatran, Gyarados
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Leviathan (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 HP / 72 Atk / 100 Def / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

This is by far the most contested slot on my team, with the list of past occupants including Hippowdon, Abomasnow, Landorus-Therian, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Suicune, and perhaps others. I eventually picked Gyarados as my response to Mega Lucario, mixed or special Infernape, Aegislash, and Talonflame, among other difficult-to-handle threats. It's a standard Bulky Dragon Dancer, with the EV spread taken right from the analysis (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gyarados-qc-2-3.3495857/#post-5116217 for easy access). I run Earthquake to troll Aegislash and maintain a devastating hit on Mega Lucario, and after a boost and/or prior damage, it deals lethal damage to Mega Venusaur.

Gyarados's main purpose is to debuff physical attackers so that Gourgeist and Skarmory can adequately handle them later. If I manage to lead it against a Stealth Rocker or something that can't handle it such as Heatran, I usually manage to get a Substitute up. From there, I start to Dragon Dance until my Substitute breaks or the opponent's Rotom starts getting on my nerves. Even if I get Intimidated, the Speed boost can make the difference against Infernape, Terrakion, and other fleet-footed opponents.

SYNERGIES:
* ELECTRIC: Venusaur. Heatran and Sylveon handle the special hits.
* ROCK: While neither resist it, Venusaur and Skarmory can handle most users of Rock attacks.
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So that's my team. I've noticed problems with VoltTurn teams, particularly Rotom-Wash, who just spam the appropriate move and switch to a counter before I can accomplish anything; Mega Pinsir, who simply overpowers everyone except sometimes Skarmory; mixed attackers like Infernape, whom I can't really reliably wall; and Mandibuzz, who Knocks Off my Leftovers, Defogs my hazards, and prevents my team from doing anything appreciable due to Taunt.

Thank you all for reading this, and I eagerly await your responses!
~mewtwo15026

PAST MEMBERS

Starmie

Polaris (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 4 SAtk / 232 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover

After trying Tentacruel, Blastoise, and even Excadrill, I found Starmie to be the most reliable Rapid Spinner for my team and an outstanding response to Infernape to boot. Starmie also handily destroys boogeymen such as Landorus, Nidoking, and the various Dragons that are still running around in OU. This model is EV'd to outspeed Mega Lucario for Scald chip damage while retaining the most overall bulk, with the remaining EV's dumped into Defense. The random Special Attack EV's were to ensure a OHKO on Gengar with Psyshock, if I remember correctly; now that I've dropped it for Ice Beam to take out Trevenant and Gourgeist, I imagine they're there to maintain a 2HKO on Gengar with Scald, but I could be wrong.

SYNERGIES:
* GRASS: Heatran, Gourgeist, Skarmory
* ELECTRIC: Gourgeist. Sylveon and Heatran are also capable of taking special hits.
* BUG: Skarmory, Heatran, Gyarados, Sylveon
* GHOST: Gyarados handles most Ghost-types that Starmie can't handle.
* DARK: Sylveon

Gourgeist-H

Jack (Gourgeist) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Seed Bomb
- Protect

I had one heck of a time trying to settle on a spinblocker for my team. Sableye, though capable, proved too fragile for my purposes, especially after I dropped Toxic Spikes and it couldn't simply stall things out with Recover. Neither Trevenant nor Gourgeist-Small was bulky enough to take the hits I needed it to, and Cofagrigus can't have both Pain Split and Toxic Spikes, so I settled on Gourgeist-Super.

This guy is an excellent physical wall in a vacuum; with Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed, Excadrill has little to no hope of breaking through Gourgeist, and most other physical attackers fare little better. Gourgeist's Frisk ability, useful Grass typing, and serviceable Special Defense make it a useful way to scout Rotom-Wash and other foes whose items determine my response to them. Protect is useful for scouting, burn damage, Leftovers recovery, and Leech Seed leeching. I've never found a situation in which Seed Bomb is useful – if anything would come in that I would either want (weakness) or need (Taunt) to hit with it, Gourgeist wouldn't be able to stay in for fear of super-effective STAB or special damage – but I don't know what I would put over it.

SYNERGIES
* DARK: Sylveon
* GHOST: Special attacks go to Sylveon or Heatran. Physical attacks go to Skarmory.
* ICE: Starmie, Heatran
* FLYING: Heatran, Skarmory
* FIRE: Heatran, Starmie, Gyarados

 

[Alejandro36]

Did you try megablastoise as a spinner or just blastoise? Starmie kind off feels out of place in a stall team. And megablastoise makes spinn blocking quite difficult with dark pulse

 

[mewtwo15026]

I tried Mega Blastoise, but I found that he relied too much on passed Wishes to stay healthy, so he'd crumble under any sort of offensive pressure, and status completely ruined him. I switched to Starmie because I found it better at making openings to Rapid Spin and less vulnerable to pressure from neutral attacks (Recover) and status (Natural Cure).

That said, now that I have Sylveon, I might be able to create more openings for Blastoise. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Laurel]

You need to keep Gyarados to check NP Mega Lucario, if you don't have it that's an autoloss to about 10% of teams (at the least). Alternatively you /could/ run either Thunder Wave on Starmie, or Hydro Pump Modest with enough SpA to OHKO. The first is probably better, you need the speed, and then you rely on shaky accuracy, and hoping it is not running Dark Pulse. I think you really want a ground type on this team for Thundurus-I, it runs through you with nasty plot, or ones with volt switch. In addition, Manaphy looks like a big problem... (another reason why TWave Starmie might work) Seed Bomb can probably kill after Paralysis.

Do you really need Heal Bell on Sylveon? Starmie has natural cure, two of your pokemons are immune to Toxic, and Gyarados has substitute. I could see Shadow Ball being a great move here to deal with the special aegislash weakness. Then you can go to tran after you scout it with Protect.

 

[nmitchell890]

Hi, nice team you have here. As a fellow stall player, I feel well placed to offer you some advice.

I don't really see the point in using a spinner or spinblocker any more, or Spikes for that matter. The main method of removing hazards now is Defog and with reliable users such as Skarmory and Mandibuzz amongst others, you may as well jump on the bandwagon and simply use Defog yourself. As previously mentioned, Skarmory is a good user so slapping it over Spikes is an easy replacement. I would keep Stealth Rock though, Heatran is bulky and powerful enough to switch in multiple times per game and threaten common users of Defog with Lava Plume.
With the switch to using Defog instead of Rapid Spin, Starmie and Gourgeist-Super become lesser options, other pokemon would better serve you in the roles that you require. My suggestion would be your choice of bulky grass type (my personal favourite is Tangrowth with Assault Vest but Mega-Venusaur is good too) and a revenge killer (a Choice Scarf user, priority user or Life Orb Deoxys-S). These grass types check Mega-Lucario with Earthquake and have excellent mixed defences, while not being too crippled by a Will-o-Wisp coming from Rotom-W as their primary STAB is Giga Drain. A revenge killer is useful as a last-ditch check to pretty much the entire metagame but more specifically set-up sweepers that have managed to grab a boost. My personal favourite is Choice Scarf Genesect as it can revenge kill, scout and rack up U-Turn damage all at the same time, while being resistant to common priority like Bullet Punch coming from Mega-Lucario and Scizor.

So, in summary

• Spikes --> Defog
• Gourgeist-S --> bulky grass type (Tangrowth / Mega-Venusaur etc)
• Starmie --> revenge killer (Choice Scarf Genesect / Life Orb Deoxys-S etc)

Good luck :)

 

[mewtwo15026]

Laurel: I dropped Starmie for a special Scarf Genesect, so your Thunder Wave suggestion is moot, but I thought it was interesting. Heal Bell usually ends up healing Toxic from Sylveon, but I feel like that's a really important thing to be able to do; I haven't fought enough special Aegislash to know whether or not they're that problematic for Gyarados, but if it turns out to be so, I'll drop Heal Bell for Shadow Ball. Volt Switch is a pain in general, but I'm not sure at all where to fit a Ground-type on my team. I tried Landorus-T where Gyarados used to be, but that got me screwed by Lucario, although with Mega Venusaur around that might be less of a problem. Did you have any Ground-types in mind?

nmitchell890: I think that's actually what I needed to do - shift my focus from hazards. My team looks like semi-stall or even bulky offense rather than full stall, but with Defog and stupidly powerful offensive threats running around, full stall may be a dead playstyle. I run a mixed-tank Venusaur and a special Scarf Genesect now, and I think I'll update my team as necessary.

Thank you two for the rates, and to the rest of the University: Keep them coming!

 

[nmitchell890]

Sounds like its working much better :) glad I could help. Only nitpick I have is very small, Genesect gets slightly more out of Download with 8 Atk / 248 SpA than it does with 4 Atk / 252 SpA because your Atk stat is an odd number with 4 EVs and the boost comes to a decimal number that gets rounded down, with 8 EVs you bypass this and gain an extra stat point at +1. Most people don't think it important enough but I'm a perfectionist.

 

[mewtwo15026]

So it looks like my team has no response whatsoever to Landorus and Entei. I dropped Brave Bird for Toxic on Skarmory so that I have something to do against last-Pokemon setup sweepers like Curse Umbreon, but that leaves me wide open to Fighting-types. I also lost to a Thunderpunch Mega Lucario, so it seems that Venusaur is my only check to it, but I imagine a Swords Dance set would absolutely destroy me. Truth be told, I'm completely stumped.

EDIT: Encountered a team running Mamoswine and Mandibuzz. Let's just say I'm weak to both of them, too, particularly if Mamoswine is running Freeze Dry. I'm losing hope in stall as a viable playstyle.