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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

If a Pokemon with Thief or Pickpocket attacks an opponent with an item that the move would use up/remove, what order do the effects occur in?

EX: Tinkaton hitting another Tinkaton that has its Air Balloon intact, or using Thief on a Dark-Weak Mon with a Colbur Berry.
 
pika pal said:
If a Pokemon with Thief or Pickpocket attacks an opponent with an item that the move would use up/remove, what order do the effects occur in?

EX: Tinkaton hitting another Tinkaton that has its Air Balloon intact, or using Thief on a Dark-Weak Mon with a Colbur Berry.
Click to expand...

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2184171232

Replay shows some of the mechanics, hopefully this answers the rest of it (if not please tell me):

- If the Air Balloon is broken it will not be transferred.
- If the Berry is eaten it will not be transferred.
- If the Berry is not eaten or the Air Balloon is not broken then it will transfer like normal, as long as the Pickpocket user has a free item slot. Thief will always break the Balloon unless the opposing Pokemon has Klutz, is Embargoed, or Magic Room is active. (Klutz Example)
- If the Pokemon using Thief doesn't have an item and uses the move on a Pokemon with Pickpocket that is holding an item, the item will be immediately returned to the original Pokemon.
 
2 quick questions:

1. Does something in Dittos mechanics make it do less damage? It has consistently been dealing ~15-20% less damage than my opponents mon. Confirmed it isn't item difference after leftovers ticks and the like. I also know it doesn't copy booster energy for some reason so it isn't that.

2. Is there a consistent way to tell if magician will steal the item on the same moment it loses its item? I've been playing a lot of throat spray/psychic noise hoopa unbound. It seems to usually steal boots but it hasn't been stealing primarina's assault vest before taking the moonblast in return.
 
TurquoiseLink said:
1. Does something in Dittos mechanics make it do less damage? It has consistently been dealing ~15-20% less damage than my opponents mon. Confirmed it isn't item difference after leftovers ticks and the like. I also know it doesn't copy booster energy for some reason so it isn't that.
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I'm guessing that it's doing the same amount of damage, it's just less as a percentage of HP because your opponent's mon has more HP than Ditto.
 
El Steiwos said:
Hello, was wondering, why specs Darkrai is not really a thing.
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Darkrai's raw power doesn't tend to be it's strength most of the time, but instead it's speed and incredible coverage.

Scarf, Life Orb, Heavy-Duty Boots and Expert Belt tend to be more popular options:

- Scarf outpaces important threats like scarf Meowscarda, +1 Speed Roaring Moon, Dragapult, Deoxys-Speed and Iron Boulder at +1 Speed.

- Life Orb / Expert Belt have similar purposes, stay on the field as long as possible while threatening huge damage with it's insane coverage. A lot of the time these sets don't even run Nasty Plot and instead rely on the nasty coverage of having access to Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast.

- Heavy-Duty Boots tends to be more rare, but is typically used on hazard stack, usually with some utility options like Knock Off, Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave, alongside it's aforementioned great coverage.

A big reason Specs doesn't get used either is because of Nasty Plot, being locked into a move is heavily commital, and if you get a read wrong you are in a horrible position momentum-wise. Nasty Plot is a reliable midground that will lead you to deal even more damage than you would with specs, all while keeping your freedom of move choice.

Hope this explains it!
 
Ehmcee said:
Darkrai's raw power doesn't tend to be it's strength most of the time, but instead it's speed and incredible coverage.

Scarf, Life Orb, Heavy-Duty Boots and Expert Belt tend to be more popular options:

- Scarf outpaces important threats like scarf Meowscarda, +1 Speed Roaring Moon, Dragapult, Deoxys-Speed and Iron Boulder at +1 Speed.

- Life Orb / Expert Belt have similar purposes, stay on the field as long as possible while threatening huge damage with it's insane coverage. A lot of the time these sets don't even run Nasty Plot and instead rely on the nasty coverage of having access to Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast.

- Heavy-Duty Boots tends to be more rare, but is typically used on hazard stack, usually with some utility options like Knock Off, Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave, alongside it's aforementioned great coverage.

A big reason Specs doesn't get used either is because of Nasty Plot, being locked into a move is heavily commital, and if you get a read wrong you are in a horrible position momentum-wise. Nasty Plot is a reliable midground that will lead you to deal even more damage than you would with specs, all while keeping your freedom of move choice.

Hope this explains it!
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Great write-up, thanks a lot :)!
 
sims796 said:
And opinions on Mandibuzz while I'm at it, on Balance/BO of course.
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I'm very late on the reply here but I've been a Mandibuzz enjoyer for awhile.

Toxic/Foul Play/Roost and then either U-Turn/Defog is supremely great for being an awesome utility mon. I've used it extensively in a few team comps and whole Ghold is a whole ordeal, it absolutely murders Roaring Moon/Tusk/Ogerpon. A lot of Ogerpons get cocky and swords dance expecting a switch, and a +1 being hit with a foul Play is enough to immediately kill it. It completely walls most Tusk variants, can wallout +1 Moon (Foul Play will 2HK), or toxic to force switches.

While it does suffer from issues, mainly that its bad vs steel types and suffers against Long Neck, it preforms very solidly to me in a lot of structures. Definitely requires a spinner (lefties shoots up its longevity by a ton), but it can defog very nicely. You can swap Foul Play for Knock to at least disrupt Ghold a bit.
 
I’m interested in hearing why Hydreigon is occasionally used over Latios and Darkrai.

With Darkrai it’s obvious due to Levitate, but I’m not sure what it does over Latios.

Latios has a better speed tier, SpA stat, special bulk, Psychic Noise, Recover, and the option to go Modest, outpacing Kyurem.
 
658Greninja said:
I’m interested in hearing why Hydreigon is occasionally used over Latios and Darkrai.

With Darkrai it’s obvious due to Levitate, but I’m not sure what it does over Latios.

Latios has a better speed tier, SpA stat, special bulk, Psychic Noise, Recover, and the option to go Modest, outpacing Kyurem.
Click to expand...
Hydreigon's initial typing is just way better than Latios. Gives it way more workable match-ups into Roaring Moon, Kingambit, and Gholdengo Additionally, options like Earth Power, Flash Cannon, and Flamethrower give it better 2-move coverage compared to Latios. I've also see it be an alright Stealth Rock setter occasionally, though that set is on the rarer side.

Latios is still better imo, but Hydreigon isn't completely outclassed.
 
Two questions.

I'm curious on Destiny Bond on Weezing. Seems good but the gasbag is kinda slow. I figured that worse comes to worse I can eliminate Kingambit or other slow things that may give me pause.
 
If a Pokemon with an Air Balloon is hit by an attack whose secondary effect only works when it's grounded (such as inflicting a Scald Burn while Misty Terrain is active), does the Balloon pop before or after the game rolls and thus tries to inflict the effect?

For another stupidly specific (if consistent to test) interaction example, since Water Shuriken is multi-hit priority, if the first hit pops the Balloon and the opponent "drops" onto Psychic Terrain, does the rest of the move execute successfully?
 
pika pal said:
If a Pokemon with an Air Balloon is hit by an attack whose secondary effect only works when it's grounded (such as inflicting a Scald Burn while Misty Terrain is active), does the Balloon pop before or after the game rolls and thus tries to inflict the effect?

For another stupidly specific (if consistent to test) interaction example, since Water Shuriken is multi-hit priority, if the first hit pops the Balloon and the opponent "drops" onto Psychic Terrain, does the rest of the move execute successfully?
Click to expand...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2194667452
Secondary effects happen before the balloon pops.
The first hit of Water Shuriken pops the balloon, but the remaining hits are successful anyway.
 
So I've been playing showdown for a long time and no matter where you go there are legendaries or mythicals of some sort in those tiers. I personally feel like legendaries, mythicals, paradox all should be categorized in their own tiers and should be separate from regular mons. Regardless of if they are strong or not, majority of them are still burdensome to their respective tiers. I said before that I am thinking of quitting showdown and comp Pokemon as a whole because there is no diversity in any of game play, everyone spams these op legends and the like up the wazzoo and its not really doing anything. Is there anyone who feels the same? I'm trying my best to spice it up with random teams but when you're going up against a calm minding raging bolt, or a protect toxic healing gliscor it just gets old and stale. I take comp stuff super seriously but honestly this just ain't it for me. Why can't legends and stuff have their own respective tiers seperate outside of reg mons?
 
cozymushroomguy said:
So I've been playing showdown for a long time and no matter where you go there are legendaries or mythicals of some sort in those tiers. I personally feel like legendaries, mythicals, paradox all should be categorized in their own tiers and should be separate from regular mons. Regardless of if they are strong or not, majority of them are still burdensome to their respective tiers. I said before that I am thinking of quitting showdown and comp Pokemon as a whole because there is no diversity in any of game play, everyone spams these op legends and the like up the wazzoo and its not really doing anything. Is there anyone who feels the same? I'm trying my best to spice it up with random teams but when you're going up against a calm minding raging bolt, or a protect toxic healing gliscor it just gets old and stale. I take comp stuff super seriously but honestly this just ain't it for me. Why can't legends and stuff have their own respective tiers seperate outside of reg mons?
Click to expand...

Ripping every legendary out of their respective tier to create a tier exclusively for legendaries, mythicals, paradoxes and the like won't fix the issue of certain legendaries just having an inherently higher power level than others (Compare your average Ubers team to the Loyal Trio with their atrocious 555 BST, the lowest of any legendary trio ever,) so the legendaries, mythicals and the like actually tiered in Ubers would still be as dominant as before with essentially no changes to existing team comps at that level. If the non-legendaries banned to Ubers were to return as a result, please god I do not want a repeat of Espathra "click the boosting button and occasionally the recovery button and sweep a team while half-conscious" games and Archaludon rain hell.
Additionally, both offensive and defensive balance for tiers outside of OU would be utterly annihilated as a direct result of this change for the affected mons that aren't supposedly OP in their respective tiers. With SV UU as an example, without Okidogi, Pecharunt, Cobalion and Zapdos to act as soft checks to Lokix and play around its teammates, Lokix would very likely become the GSC Snorlax of the tier, where if you don't put it on the team in the teambuilding phase you're simply actively gimping yourself and just shouldn't expect to get many wins, if at all, outside of low ladder. Hoopa-U and offensive Sandy Shocks with their ability to break the typical bulky cores of Mandibuzz, Toxapex and Slowking would also go missing, leaving it to possibly look suspiciously like Gen 8 OU with how almost everything will run Boots, rocks resist or not, because everything is simply so scared of taking hazard chip.

In short, these bans simply wouldn't be worth the utter chaos it causes in every tier, especially this late into the lifespan of Gen 9, and the resulting metagame that all these mons are moved to will quite literally be a carbon copy of Ubers in terms of viability.
 
cozymushroomguy said:
So I've been playing showdown for a long time and no matter where you go there are legendaries or mythicals of some sort in those tiers. I personally feel like legendaries, mythicals, paradox all should be categorized in their own tiers and should be separate from regular mons. Regardless of if they are strong or not, majority of them are still burdensome to their respective tiers. I said before that I am thinking of quitting showdown and comp Pokemon as a whole because there is no diversity in any of game play, everyone spams these op legends and the like up the wazzoo and its not really doing anything. Is there anyone who feels the same? I'm trying my best to spice it up with random teams but when you're going up against a calm minding raging bolt, or a protect toxic healing gliscor it just gets old and stale. I take comp stuff super seriously but honestly this just ain't it for me. Why can't legends and stuff have their own respective tiers seperate outside of reg mons?
Click to expand...

To add to what ShadowFlarez said, "Legendary Pokemon" is ultimately a pretty loose term, you'd have to base what you consider a legendary off of the in-game categorization of Pokemon, which is incredibly arbitrary.

You mentionned both Raging Bolt and Gliscor as being annoying, when neither of them are legendaries, Game Freak classifies "Legendaries" as:

1. Sub-Legendaries (Legal)

2. Legendaries (Banned)

3. Mythicals (Banned)


Your proposal would be to supposedly ban the two later categories, which include the following legendaries:

- Cosmog :cosmog:
- Cosmoem :cosmoem:
- Necrozma :necrozma:
- Calyrex :calyrex:
- Kyurem :kyurem:
- Zamazenta :zamazenta:

Three of these options are clearly not a problem, with Necrozma only holding a slight niche in OU. OU has as a base rule to always ban box legendaries, since they're typically much more powerful then the other counterparts.

While for mythicals, your proposal would only ban the following Pokemon:

- Mew :mew:
- Jirachi :jirachi:
- Phione :phione:
- Manaphy :manaphy:
- Darkrai :darkrai:
- Shaymin :shaymin:
- Keldeo :keldeo:
- Meloetta :meloetta:
- Diancie :diancie:
- Hoopa :hoopa:
- Hoopa Unbound :hoopa_unbound:
- Volcanion :volcanion:
- Zarude :zarude:
- Pecharunt :pecharunt:

None of these pokemon with the exception of Darkrai are even close to being broken in OU. We've already banned the Legendary Pokemon that are problematic. While you may have gripes with a few of the Pokemon listed, there's no reason at all to do a blanket ban over the entire category because of a few outliers.

I can understand not liking a higher power level, and that's ok! This is why lower tiers exist, you'll see less powerhouses in lower tiers like UU, RU and NU, if you personally want to play with no legendary Pokemon, some of these lower tiers have very little ones compared to OU.
 
Ehmcee said:
To add to what ShadowFlarez said, "Legendary Pokemon" is ultimately a pretty loose term, you'd have to base what you consider a legendary off of the in-game categorization of Pokemon, which is incredibly arbitrary.

You mentionned both Raging Bolt and Gliscor as being annoying, when neither of them are legendaries, Game Freak classifies "Legendaries" as:

1. Sub-Legendaries (Legal)

2. Legendaries (Banned)

3. Mythicals (Banned)


Your proposal would be to supposedly ban the two later categories, which include the following legendaries:

- Cosmog :cosmog:
- Cosmoem :cosmoem:
- Necrozma :necrozma:
- Calyrex :calyrex:
- Kyurem :kyurem:
- Zamazenta :zamazenta:

Three of these options are clearly not a problem, with Necrozma only holding a slight niche in OU. OU has as a base rule to always ban box legendaries, since they're typically much more powerful then the other counterparts.

While for mythicals, your proposal would only ban the following Pokemon:

- Mew :mew:
- Jirachi :jirachi:
- Phione :phione:
- Manaphy :manaphy:
- Darkrai :darkrai:
- Shaymin :shaymin:
- Keldeo :keldeo:
- Meloetta :meloetta:
- Diancie :diancie:
- Hoopa :hoopa:
- Hoopa Unbound :hoopa_unbound:
- Volcanion :volcanion:
- Zarude :zarude:
- Pecharunt :pecharunt:

None of these pokemon with the exception of Darkrai are even close to being broken in OU. We've already banned the Legendary Pokemon that are problematic. While you may have gripes with a few of the Pokemon listed, there's no reason at all to do a blanket ban over the entire category because of a few outliers.

I can understand not liking a higher power level, and that's ok! This is why lower tiers exist, you'll see less powerhouses in lower tiers like UU, RU and NU, if you personally want to play with no legendary Pokemon, some of these lower tiers have very little ones compared to OU.
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Thank you for responding. I just think I'm gonna delete my showdown account. It's not worth it. I tried playing NU today and it took FOREVER to get a match. This game isn't worth it anymore imo. I looked up some YouTube videos about competitive Pokemon and got some answers and closure I needed. Thank you for time and your suggestion.
 
cozymushroomguy said:
So I've been playing showdown for a long time and no matter where you go there are legendaries or mythicals of some sort in those tiers. I personally feel like legendaries, mythicals, paradox all should be categorized in their own tiers and should be separate from regular mons. Regardless of if they are strong or not, majority of them are still burdensome to their respective tiers. I said before that I am thinking of quitting showdown and comp Pokemon as a whole because there is no diversity in any of game play, everyone spams these op legends and the like up the wazzoo and its not really doing anything. Is there anyone who feels the same? I'm trying my best to spice it up with random teams but when you're going up against a calm minding raging bolt, or a protect toxic healing gliscor it just gets old and stale. I take comp stuff super seriously but honestly this just ain't it for me. Why can't legends and stuff have their own respective tiers seperate outside of reg mons?
Click to expand...
Apart from what’s already been said about not all legendaries being broken or unhealthy, the current vgc format has all legendaries and paradox mons banned if you’re interested in trying that.
 
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