Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings

[Ampha]

Scarlet and Violet RU Viability Rankings

artwork by Denial​

Welcome to the SV RU Viability Rankings Thread! Here, we as a community we will rank every viable Pokemon in rankings. Keep in mind that this thread is simply a reference list and should not be treated as anything more than that. Pokemon are arranged alphabetically within subranks. When posting about a drop/rise, especially for unranked Pokemon, remember to talk about how they actually got worst/better, and include replays to support your nomination.

Viability Thread Rules

• Don't discuss anything in the blacklist (D Rank).
• Avoid one liners and flesh out your post, but remain concise. This helps further the discussion and gives your post more credibility.
• Do not derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. Similarly, do not derail the thread with other simple questions.
• Should you want to nominate an unranked Pokemon, it will only be ranked if you have at least 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
• If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
• This thread has nothing to do with tiering. Remain civil when posting in this thread.

The Viability Rankings team comprises of:

• Ampha (Host)
• eifo
• EviGaro
• feen
• Kushalos
• Ming549
• TheFranklin
• Tsuki
• xavgb

Without further ado, here are the rankings!

S Rank

Zapdos-Galar

A+ Rank

Armarouge
Bisharp
Jirachi
Noivern
Slowbro
Volcanion
Weezing-Galar

A Rank

Cyclizar
Fezandipiti
Gastrodon
Gengar
Goodra-Hisui
Krookodile
Mamoswine
Mew
Slither Wing
Suicune
Wo-Chien


A- Rank

Basculegion-Female
Empoleon
Entei
Gardevoir
Gyarados
Hippowdon
Mimikyu
Registeel
Rhyperior
Reuniclus
Salamence
Umbreon


B+ Rank

Amoonguss
Cresselia
Feraligatr
Lilligant-Hisui
Magnezone
Maushold
Mienshao
Raikou
Talonflame

B Rank
Barraskewda
Chesnaught
Gallade
Gligar
Golurk
Kleavor
Klefki
Lycanroc-Dusk
Muk-Alola
Necrozma
Ninetales-Alola
Quagsire
Ribombee
Terrakion

B- Rank

Basculegion-Male
Bellibolt
Breloom
Chansey
Crawdaunt
Flygon
Infernape
Kilowattrel
Milotic
Overqwil
Pawmot
Politoed
Porygon-Z
Regidrago
Rotom-Heat
Slowbro-Galar
Swampert
Toxtricity

C+ Rank
Azelf
Deoxys-Defense
Ditto
Froslass
Lucario
Palossand
Torterra
Vaporeon

C Rank

Bronzong
Cetitan
Cloyster
Drednaw
Espeon
Iron thorns
Kingdra
Ninetales
Rotom-Mow
Scovillain
Scream Tail
Tauros-Paldea-Aqua
Tornadus
Toxicroak
Venusaur


D Rank (blacklisted, RU by usage but unviable, dont talk about them)

Forretress

 

[Bice]

A- ---> B+ or lower
it's not necessarily a bad pokemon, but the meta is really inhospitable towards it. between the prominence of rain, scarf krookodile, lycanroc-dusk and others, there's just way too much offensive pressure for a Pokemon that relies heavily on its ability to whittle down other mons with poison. nasty plot/encore sets have too much competition from offensive fire-types like armarouge as well as calm mind glowbro and to a lesser extent munkidori. in short, salazzle struggles to keep up with a more offensive meta due to its lack of ability to force switches and reliance on toxic.
NEW ---> B+
very solid choice scarf user with a speed tier that trolls most prominent scarfers in the tier, namely gardevoir and krookodile. its minmaxed stats let it hit hard and parting shot is a fantastic pivot move. toxic chain is also an extremely stupid ability that also lets it use the more powerful sludge wave over sludge bomb. however it's very vulnerable to priority due to its barely-existent defenses, particular slither wing's first impression and bisharp's sucker punch. its typing is also very poor offensively, forcing it to rely on focus miss for coverage. getting crept by booster jugulis also stings. still, overall solid addition to the tier.
NEW ---> B+
a far better sun user than ninetales can ever hope to be thanks to its superior utility movepool, namely having the coveted stealth rock and rapid spin. being a spinner that can't run boots is lame, but i feel like sun is slightly better now that we have a better setter than ninetales. still has the same issues though (lack of prominent abusers, hazard vulnerability, etc), so it shouldn't go higher.
B ---> C or UR
only reason to use it over torkoal is healing wish and encore, which isn't enough to justify using it over the tortoise due to its superior bulk and access to rocks and spin. even then there are better abusers of those two moves, such as gardevoir and maushold respectively.

 

[Miyami~~~]

bice did a sort of sun post above me so here's a rain post

> UU
you guys forgot to remove this you might want to do that

C > B-
Skewda's little brother. Not having space for flip turn sucks but being outsped by booster jugulis even in rain sucks even more so this is probably the best click button swift swimmer in the tier now, or at the very least interchangeable with legion due to its higher speed tier and access to Ice Spinner.

UR > C+
This mon's definitively solid on rain teams in the "swift swimmer that can take water absorb mons" slot thanks to its access to nasty plot and grass knot letting it hit harder than ludicolo while covering a lot of the same matchups and having a faster speed tier (notably, ludicolo doesn't get over booster jugulis but golduck actually does). Golduck also can't be wish stalled by spd vaporeon since it threatens to boost, while Ludicolo can just be sat on due to its abysmal SpA. That's a hugely important matchup for rain since vaporeon sits on your main swimmer with a vengeance.

I'd love to show you the replays I gathered using Golduck on ladder over probably a triple digit number of games, but PS generously deleted all their replays recently so I'll have to edit some into the post later. But seriously, use it!

edit:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2006469513 - kind of a weird one where rain plays no factor for golduck but breaking a wish looping vaporeon definitely was and is something ludicolo would not be able to do even pre tera
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2006885201-sonay54h4rqlbhygtr7s3412qsg0hsvpw - golduck sweeps from 5 mons despite an unfortunate miss
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2007661272-msgfqt5ihq7glk9qndxu6a2sg3r8583pw - golduck countersweeps rain

 

[Serviperhater]

C > B-
Skewda's little brother. Not having flip turn sucks but being outsped by booster jugulis even in rain sucks even more so this is probably the best click button swift swimmer in the tier now, or at the very least interchangeable with legion due to its higher speed tier and access to Ice Spinner.

Floatzel does get flip turn but totally agree with the nom. Floatzels ability to outspeed booster jugulis without a speed boosting nature compared to basculegion who has to run a speed boosting nature is huge definitely a defining part of rain because of wave crash and flip turn

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Various VR thoughts:
1) Everything is ranked too high. It makes sense for an early-meta, kind of shaky VR, but it just feels like the high ranks are just way too full. There should not be 17 A- mons, some of the ones in there just feel like they were put there for legacy reasons. Pawmot, salazzle and rotom-heat are not core parts of the format anymore, and I feel like they should be moved down at least a tier or two. Similarly, it feels like the b tiers are filled with a lot of "they're not optimal but you can find a way to use them" mons that could usually be in the c-tiers. Brute bonnet, hariyama, tatsugiri, scream tail, drednaw and toxicroak all feel like they are off-meta picks at best, meant to counter specific mons or just outclassed. Basically I think that if you have to ask about a mon's placement, it should be at least one rank lower.

2) Specific opinions:
: A- to B+: I'm kind of torn on this one as glowbro sometimes feels so good vs mons like fezandipiti and diancie, but at the same time it usually feels like a physically defensive mon that loses to most of the physical attackers. It also feels like A-muk is on the rise and glowbro does very very poorly vs that mon.
B+ to A-: I may be alone on this, but I feel like kilowattrel is still really good. I feel like every time I try to build with thundurus, it turns into a kilowattrel sooner or later. It feels like the only thing in the tier that doesn't mind switching into magnezone, and it even wins the 1v1 long-term with roost or immediately on tera blast sets.
B+ to A: Gardevoir is still very good, like the only good scarfer. It's all the little things that keep gardevoir good. Trace comes in clutch, especially vs vaporeon and regenerator mons, trick makes you relevant in every matchup and it is easy-ish to just wear tinkaton down with moonblasts once it is knocked or you get hazards up.
to B+: It's ok, maybe good, but I feel like it is definitely not good enough to fit in with the A-tiers. It's either as good as or worse than most of the filler A- mons who should drop to the B's.

 

[cyanize]

i can agree w the sentiment that a- is a bit bloated, but i disagree w the mons bein proposed 2 drop
salazzle especially is extremely good rn on top of bein a proven presence with notable scl results. it's one of very few mons that got voted *up* from the previous update 4 a rsn; bein able 2 stonewall and consistently punish fez as an offensive mon opens up a lot of building options teams wouldnt have otherwise, and its speed tier is v critical rn, jumping the crowded 110-115 tier w the ability 2 put the hurt on all these mons. its ability 2 spread status is just as obnoxious and unfair as ever and it also pairs well w the pivot centric nature of the tier atm. idk if id put it any higher than a- but i think it's comfortably top 5 of the mons in that rank

pawmot i think is also criminally underexplored atm. it's a bit hard 2 build w for sure, but every elec not named magnezone is so. lo cc does a fantastic job of cleaving thru slower paced squads usin the frailer grounds (phan/quag) & even hippo doesnt particularly enjoy its onslaught w hazards & such. it also appreciates the popularity of zone and tink as steels because it can use them as entry points, which the other electrics can't do particularly well. admittedly u dont rly enjoy losin ur lo to tink knock, but it's a far sight less punishing than rotom/kilo/thundy losing boots. encore is, as always, a busted ass option that can turn certain defensive mus into liabilities asw. i def dont think it's as flawed as mons like ches or drag

dont think glowbro should drop either, gelibro (psychic/tox/flame) is still annoying as shit and a regen poison type is very nice rn. hates muk improving but idt it hates it enough 2 b downgraded, the teams it fits on should b equipped 2 outlast any muk that isnt restalk. i def rate it more than anything in the b tiers as a defensive centerpiece except maybe belli

if there was anything id change abt a-, itd likely be raising muk and slowbro, maybe arma, and dropping talon, rotom, & possibly ttar.


slowbro needs no intro rly we've all seen the hippo bro cores sitting on everythin everywhere, i think its easily on par w tink and krook wrt meta impact and splashability. muk is also just, like, good. its defensive qualities r v useful atm n ppl have been furthering its meta w sets like restalk and curse, n i think it could use a bump up. armarouge is still broken after all this time, we dont have a single actual switchin to it and it has like 4 different versions of sets it can run that all require u 2 tiptoe around it extremely precariously lest u risk it claiming 2-3 mons or just the game outright lol. i ain't buyin the "nobody uses it so it can't be broken" junk; it's obviously a hard mon 2 build w and heavily volatile metas like this encourage safe builder picks, and when it DOES show up it is an absolute terror. also nobody uses it on ho for... some reason. im way more scared 2 see this on preview than yanmega thundy or bish


on the flip side, talon is just kinda underwhelming. it's not a terrible mon by any means, but we have like 3 bajillion knock mons and every team includes 2 or 3 of em minimum except some ho builds. it's pretty limited in what it can actually check and it also struggles 2 put out meaningful damage that sticks. taunt helps a lot of its issues on the latter part, but also presents it with rather annoying 4mss. it's just not consistent enough of a mon 4 the a ranks imo. rotom just kinda doesnt exist rn n i agree that it should prolly drop, it doesn't bring a whole lot 2 the table that other electrics or fires can't either match or outshine in one way or another. it's not bad but it suffers from some crowded competition (and also the same knock problem as talon). ttar is fine honestly n i think it could stay in a-, but much like some of the defensive picks in b+ it's p awkward 2 reliably fit on teams and it's rather inconsistent thanks 2 being stuffed by a lot of picks more common than it. cb is cb, feli mentioned the idea of fat cb considerin everything will b creeping it anyway, but i think it still kinda has some fundamental issues w bein way 2 easy 2 overwhelm and not rly gettin much opportunity 2 do any clicking. anything other than sdef and cb id have 2 see in action 2 believe, i think there might b some potential in scarf especially now that kilo is less dominant and hittin that speed tier is less imperative, the meta has coalesced more around the 115 area which scarftar actually can get the jump on... but idk, i rly just need 2 see this mon in action at top level 2 gain faith in it honestly

as for other things,

> b
w no skewda around this should just b automatic tbh. it's a better phys water swimmer than basc bc it can afford adamant and has an actually ok ice stab. that said i dont think either of the phys water swimmers r particularly good

> b
iunno how this didnt get ranked when ludi did cus its def better than ludi. miyami already said what needed 2 b said abt it

> b
idk why this is b- when toed is b, it's the best rain sweeper and arguably already was even with skewda in the tier. toed n this should always b the same rank imo, and b honestly might b undervaluing them but rain needs a bit more time 2 b explored

> b+
air balloon croak is actually super excellent rn. being immune 2 toxic, scald, and eq all at the same time is hugely valuable 4 rsns i dont think i should need 2 explain. it also has p unexplored set options, encore is extremely good as always, it can reasonably drop gunk thanks 2 it having a reliable strong fighting stab in cc allowing u 2 do combos like cc/ip/knock or eq as well. eq is just rly nice in general for clapping poisons that think they can take on the typical dual stabs + sucker. sucker itself has actually increased in value from previous metas, as krook has loosened its iron grip on the tier, the tauroses r irrelevant, and fast dark resists r on the decline as a whole. it's highly customizable, puts out good damage, and has a great defensive profile pls use this mon it's fantastic

> b/b+
glig is also great rn. first off, it's immune 2 eq and toxic - already a great start! but it does this while a. not being a poison or steel type, which very much helps in crafting teams safe vs fez or quag bos, and b. actually having eq + toxic itself LOL. it's pretty impossible 2 stop from just clickin good buttons in the same manner as annoying ass quag, but it trades recover for some extremely impressive bulk, access 2 uturn/knock, and a very swood combo of ground + elec immunity and fighting resist that lets it blanket check a lot of relevant mons. havin a mon that checks lycan, krook, slither, quag, fez, rev, and mmq all in one slot is genuinely just magical. unfortunately it's rather dependent on its item in a meta infested w knock mons which is prolly its biggest flaw, but even knocked it has solid enough bulk 2 get in and out n do what it needs 2 - it still takes good advantage of weaker defensive mons even w/o evio. it's sorta like quag, if quag played aggro more like donphan/krook; its a rly nice glue for more offensively inclined spikestack builds. i was a big fan of glig pre shifts but didnt get 2 sing its praises b4 the meta flipped upside down again, n i assumed itd fall off w the increased power level but ive actually been nothin but impressed usin it. try it out!

, > b-, > c+
sun is unfortunately hot ass. struggles w way 2 many meta picks n doesnt have nearly enough room 4 defensive synergy like rain. torkoal is not saving it

> b
magnet rise is super good, twave + spikes is good. magrise shuts down a lot of the common ho builds rn pretty hard as the things that can absorb prankster twave just get sat on, and it lets u make eq + tox into a liability (noticing a trend?) obv faces a lot of competition from tink but it's still quite a serviceable mon n def better than fuckin sun or assculegion and gallade

 

[Fabi_ODST]

I agree with the overall placements, but I have some small nitpicks with some of the placements:

A- -> A
I feel like this mon should be higher given how versatile it is and how it consistently puts work on every matchup. its set of tools make it really adaptable to the needs of most teams, being able to run banded, scarf, booster energy, bulky support with WoW and Morning Sun, setup with Bulk Up + Flame Charge, sun abuser, among other sets. First Impression in particular is such a useful tool given the heavily offensive nature of the metagame, while also acting as one of the best tools against rain sweepers. I don't think it can raise higher due to its tendency to burn itself when attacking into Talonflame and how easily it can be chipped if it's not running boots, but it definitely feels more fitting of an A ranking.

B+ -> A-
How's this monster under niche picks like Salazzle, Rotom-Heat and Pawmot? Maybe this is ladder brain talking, but I feel like it's one of the the most consistent rocker we have while also having the ability to run away with games thanks to Diamons Storm + Body Press cheese. Special sets with Calm Mind + Earth Power have also started popping up more frequently, making switching into it quite hard. Yeah, Tinkaton does make its life much harder, but even with that accounted I still feel like this mon should be higher.

C+ -> C

I'm grouping these 3 becasuse I've played with and against them and, while I understand what thy do and why they're good, I still feel like they've overrated in the ranking.

Braviary-Hisui is such a dissapointment of a pokemon, being too slow to really do anything against offense and not strong enough to break fat cores. Its bad typing also leaves it too vulnerable to priority, which is quite common atm in all team archetypes. I do admit that setup Tinted Lens Braviary-H can run away with games if left unchecked, wich should be enough to grant it a place in C, but not higher.

Venomoth just feels stat checked. It's too frail to really set up and break and even after a boost you're not really that threatening. It doesn't help that the tier is really focused on HO, which means the balanced teams that venomoth thrives in breaking are not really that common, and stall usually has enough counterplay to deal with it without taking significant losses. Which is a shame, since it's one of my favorite quiver dance sweepers in the game ;-;

Forretress feel like the Ambipom of hazard setters. It leaves you open to whatever your opponent wants to do, and again, given how offensive the metagame is atm, you don't want your rocker to be that passive. Body Press is not enough of an offensive tool to dissuade other rockers from staying in/setup sweepers from setting up. Heck, it can't dissuade freaking ttar if it's moderately invested:
252+ Def Forretress Body Press vs. 236 HP / 0+ Def Tyranitar: 340-404 (85 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Despite that, low ladder keeps spamming it despite have much better options, both for setting hazards, removing them AND BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. I think lowering its ranking may help in convincing people to use other spinners/hazard setters (or it may have the opposite effect, given previous generation's experience, but whatever )

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

New additions

-> B-
-> B-
& -> UR

Rises

A+ -> S
A+ -> S*
A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- ->B
C -> C+
C -> C+

*Post was being worked on before it was banned

drops

A+ -> A
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> C+
B -> B-
B-> B-
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

We won't be doing reasonings this time but in case you have any questions, we would gladly answer them in here or #vr-discussion on RU server!

 

[Hyper bol]

C+ -> B or higher
The goat Palossand deserves a better ranking than C+. It might be one of the best counters to Maushold, Lycanroc and Lucario (if not Balloon) that are one of the most threatening mons atm. It's also one of the best spinblocker of the tier, it completely walls Toxtricity (Snarl is not real), and got Shore Up which is boosted by sand. Also its biggest counter (Jugs) got banned. Definitely a very good Physically Defensive mon.

B -> B+ / A-
Lucario is a stupid HO mon, and is strong by the same time. With Air Balloon, Lucario can setup on almost every Ground-Type, then it can just Tera Normal and Extreme Speed, if your Physically Defensive mon is not full life or Mimikyu already used its Disguise, you can just forfeit.

B -> B- / C+
I really like this mon, but honestly i don't find it that good. Apart from the fairies and dragalge, there is not a lot of mons that cop can effectively check. Maushold, Tyranitar and Mimikyu can 2hko it, if its not full invest in phys def. It should not be ranked with very good defensive mons like Diancie, Dragalge, Chesnaught or Milotic. Cop might be a cool Offensive rocker, it get easily pressured by defogger / spinners like talon, noivern with flamethrower, cyclizar with overheat and bramble that doesn't take a lot after strengh sap. Donphan is just a better offensive rocker, that have knock too and can spin.

A- -> B
Ok, Wo-chien has a very good bulk, got Knock off and leech seed, but in my opinion is not a A- mon. Even with Knock off and Leech Seed, it's passive af, and it's not that good for a defensive mon. Get 2hko by +2 Iron Head by Bisharp, Gunk Shot from Krookodile, Stone Edge from Band TTar, lets mons like Slither Wing in freely, etc.... On the special side, there's litteraly no mon that wo-chien can counter without tera (except magnezone). There are a lot of better Physically Defensive mons atm, and even as a defensive grass type chesnaught or decidueye-h are better.

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

New additions

-> S
-> A+
-> A
-> A-
->B+
-> B
-> B-
-> C+
-> C
-> UR

Rises

A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
UR -> C

drops

S -> A+
A+ -> A-
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B -> C+
B -> UR
B -> B-
B- -> C
B- -> UR
B- -> C+
B- -> C
C+ -> UR
C+ -> C
C -> UR

We won't be doing reasonings this time but in case you have any questions, we would gladly answer them in here or #vr-discussion on RU server!

 

[658Greninja]

Venomoth going from being banned in RU for multiple generations to only being a C tier mon is one of the hardest falls I’ve witnessed in RU.

I’m curious about Regidrago’s placement in the vr.

 

[TJE Spectre]

I would like to nominate two Pokémon to the viability ranking pool.
Pincurchin UNRANKED -> B-
Raichu-Alola UNRANKED -> B-
Just Hear Me Out:
Recently, I created a (now ineligible) sample team which consisted of these two Pokémon, alongside with Iron Leaves and (the then-eligible) Iron Jugulis. And though Iron Jugulis is banned as of today, I still do believe Electric Terrain has a very viable niche in the RU meta game.
A very unique trait Electric Terrain + Surge Surfer has over other similar strategies (i.e. Rain + Swift Swim/Sun + Chlorophyll) is that when facing against weather based teams, Electric Terrain does not need to compete in the weather wars.
While terrain is activated against your opponent, they cannot switch in a Politoed or Ninetales to cancel out your speed boost.
Opposing terrain does not have the same luxury as Electric terrain except with Unburden Pokémon, which only get the 2x Speed boost until swapping out.
Electric Terrain has a unique quality of acting like a weather team, without the flaw of being cancelled out by other weather.
Though Quark Drive is only limited to a 1.3x (1.5x for Speed) boost, it is enough to carve a niche role for Iron Leaves. ( or Iron Thorns)
With terrain activated, it allows Iron Leaves to hold an item, which gives it much more opportunity to branch out into different roles on teams.
Also Electric Terrain turns Psyblade into a psychic type Close Combat minus the drawback of -1 in both defenses.
With these two traits that Iron Leaves gains under terrain, it turns Iron Leaves from setup sweeper to +1 Speed CB Breaker, or just even just the standard Iron Leaves SD set with Protective Pads or HDB no longer fearing Flame Body or hazards respectively.

Raichu-Alola carves itself a niche in outpacing most of the meta game under terrain. With access to with Life Orb and Nasty Plot, it has potential to be a very threatening late-game sweeper. With access to the move Psychic Noise, that gives Raichu-Alola a slight breaking power as well. Tera Electric is great for sweeping potential, alternatively

Pincurchin, when paired with the right teammates such as Raichu-Alola and Iron Leaves, can give immense support. As long as terrain is up, it’s giving support.
Tera Ghost + Spikes is also a great way to get extra hazards, and baiting your opponents Cyclizar to stay in for a Thunder Wave.

Since Raichu-Alola and Pincurchin are inseparable in their viability, I thought it would be appropriate to use my three replays for both Pokemon. If this is not acceptable to the mods’ standards, I will post three more replays for Pincurchin in the reply section of this post.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2064097345
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2063598374?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2063125566
Thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.

 

[Adam3560]

Where's blastoise

 

[Canard]

Scarlet and Violet RU Viability Rankings

Welcome to the SV RU Viability Rankings Thread! Here, we as a community we will rank every viable Pokemon in rankings. Keep in mind that this thread is simply a reference list and should not be treated as anything more than that. Pokemon are arranged alphabetically within subranks. When posting about a drop/rise, especially for unranked Pokemon, remember to talk about how they actually got worst/better, and include replays to support your nomination.

Viability Thread Rules

• Don't discuss anything in the blacklist (D Rank).
• Avoid one liners and flesh out your post, but remain concise. This helps further the discussion and gives your post more credibility.
• Do not derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. Similarly, do not derail the thread with other simple questions.
• Should you want to nominate an unranked Pokemon, it will only be ranked if you have at least 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
• If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
• This thread has nothing to do with tiering. Remain civil when posting in this thread.

The Viability Rankings team comprises of:

• Ampha (Host)
• Beraldinho
• cyanize
• C0nfiden1 0yster
• eifo
• EviGaro
• Feliburn
• GoldCat
• ishtar
• TheFranklin
• Yourwelcomethanku

Without further ado, here are the rankings!

S Rank

Zarude

A+ Rank

Basculegion-Female

Conkeldurr

Cyclizar

Enamorus-Therian

Mienshao

Revavroom

Slither Wing

Slowbro

A Rank

Barraskewda

Cobalion

Crawdaunt

Mamoswine

Mimikyu

Terrakion

Vileplume

A- Rank

Empoleon

Fezandipiti

Killowattrel

Krookodile

Lilligant-Hisui

Lycanroc-Dusk

Magnezone

Quagsire

Raikou

Rhyperior

Rotom-heat

Talonflame

Tinkaton

Zoroark-Hisui


B+ Rank

Azelf

Bisharp

Chesnaught

Entei

Flygon

Gardevoir

Milotic

Muk Alola

Noivern

Politoed

Regidrago

Registeel

Slowbro Galar

Vaporeon


B Rank

Bellibolt

Munkidori

Overqwil

Pawmot

Salazzle

Scrafty

Thundurus

Torterra

Toxicroak

Toxtricity

Typhlosion Hisui

Umbreon

Wo-chien

Yanmega

B- Rank

Bronzong

Decidueye-Hisui

Diancie

Ditto

Golurk

Klefki

Lucario

Tsareena

C+ Rank

Brambleghast

Dragalge

Gligar

Grafaiai

Grimmsnarl

Hitmonlee

Ninetales

Oricorio-Pom-Pom

Scream tail

Tatsugiri


C Rank

Abomasnow

Basculegion

Cetitan

Chansey

Charizard

Cloyster

Drednaw

Emboar

Espeon

Flamigo

Floatzel

Forretress

Froslass

Goodra

Hariyama

Inteleon

Ludicolo

Malamar

Palossand

Shiftry

Staraptor

Sylveon

Tauros-Aqua

Tornadus

Venomoth

Victreebel

Virizion

Whimsicott

A ---->B or lower, he isn't that powerful, even in rain his low speed makes it struggle to find any opportunity to uses his powerful moves meaning that most of the times he will just throw weak aqua jets and i think there are overall beter options

also i never saw once vileplume but i see why it should be good

 

[MC Squared]

This VR hasn't been updated in 1.5 months. So many RU rises that never even got a ranking during February

 

[Master Chief]

Hi, to all the people who are wondering about the VR I think it's worth letting the meta settle down a bit more after the zarude suspect (and probable ban) before revamping the entire VR. Slowking coming down and departing is an example of a mon that warped a lot of the metagame around it and you can waste a lot of time with revamping the VR everytime during this volatile period. Fortunately, I think the tier will settle quite a bit now after the zarude suspect as drops/rises are less likely to be as impactful as they were in Feb/March.

 

[MC Squared]

This died

 

[Tsuki]

This died

It's not, the team is still voting on placements and such. It will be done eventually, have some patience

 

[Ampha]

It's not, the team is still voting on placements and such, and will be done eventually, have some patience

Actually we are only missing votes on one person

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

Not going to list all the changes because the Viability rankings where changed very drastically since the last update, feel free to ask anything about a certain ranking of a pokémon or anything related to it, me or anyone from the VR council will always be glad to answer!

 

[LBN]

Nice VR update. Some questionable decisions i will be critiquing but overall a solid rankings for the meta. That said, we got some VERY big stinker picks. First off...

B- -> LITERALLY ANYWHERE HIGHER (B+/A-)
I genuinely missed this one and I'm mad i did. This is arguably one of HOs best options right now. Very threatening wincon with throat spray tera ground, it can snowball mid-endgames very easily on its own, it's bulk is commendable if you can keep the rocks off and priority like Bisharp sucker isn't a huge issue for it thanks to it's passing phys bulk. Obviously it's weak to rocks but I also think people are not giving this thing a fair shot outside of HO. Cyclizar, for all it's faults is pretty good at keeping the rocks off, and it doesn't HAVE to run throat spray. Sets like Tinted Lens Specs, or just Speed boost Specs are solid options, and honestly you could run Boots offensive Speed boost quite well on this thing, and it's natural resistance to stuff like mach punches make it a nice offensive mon in the meta. As for the HO one, moltres/thundy-t aside who is answering Bug Buzz/Air Slash/TB-Ground? It's got alot of good traits and i'd say it's very underexplored and more than anything, criminally underranked. Ya'll ranked CINCCINO higher man. Speaking of...

B -> C/D
This pokemon is not good in any capacity I'm sorry. It's maushold but just noticeably worse, and maushold is already a mon who sometimes struggles to accomplish jack shit alot of the time. Cobalion being top 1 is rough, it has some 4MSS issues, completely mopped by priority of most kinds unless you tera ghost on a mach i guess, hazard prone, OHKOd by a light breeze any stronger than a fuckin cyclizar and that's not saying a lot. I need someone to point me to a time in any relevant game where this mon did more than twiddle it's thumbs at the nearest Cobalion like show me where the money at because all I see is a fraud. People stopped falling for tera ghost encore like a week in let's lock in and call this AND the mice what they are. Mediocore fishes. This thing doesn't even have the bullet seed the hippowdon niche because apparently maushold gets that shit too. Why is this thing higher than forretress yall have me defending FORRETRESS.

C -> C+
I know forretress is a meme around this tier but honestly this mon isn't this bad like cmon now. It's got a serviceable defensive profile, it's a decent spinner for offensive teams who don't need their spinner to last the whole game, but instead check slightly more annoying stuff like Mimikyu, Gardevoir, and Fezandipiti (Gyro Ball), DD Necrozma/Iron leaves (Pounce/Lunge), Bisharp/Terrak (Body press), while also providing what you want it to do beyond that. Do you want spikes, do you want it to pivot, or do you want it to pain split and stick around longer? Like this thing does have options, and sure it's not an amazing showstopper but it's definitely better than a lot of the gunk in C rank like don't put this thing next to gligar and Typhlosion-H that's so disrespectful.

A -> A+
This pokemon is amazing man. It's defensive utility is meager at the best of times but who cares because this thing just does so much. Even beyond the default Scarf set, which in my eyes, is it's worse set please use H-Zoroark for that. It's true power lies in it's set variety. TWave 3A, Wisp hexgar, Twave NP Hexgar, NP 3A, Dbond, subwisp hexgar, and that's just scratching the surface. This thing has SO much flexslot potential with random bullshit to let it pull off whatever you want. Encore, Perish Song, Tspikes, shit tired of cyclizar annoying you Icy wind that fraud and suddenly you kill it next turn like this mon can do so much shit. Hoopa-U leaving opens it up even further, while A-Muk lost another reason to get used too. It's set variety is genuinely off the charts and whatever set it uses excels at busting holes.

A- -> B+/B
Alright let's have a conversation alright? I know I am entering HIGHLY contentious territory but it's been 2 months, we can all come to the agreement that this thing is not hitting like that right? Like we still got folks calling it broken but I'm sorry I'm seeing SS polteageist flashbacks right now ngl (i was on the ban that shit train myself but let's ignore that for now). Shit SS polteageist is better than this fraud right here atleast it's not OHKOd by a rocky helmet. Pop Bomb can be annoying for people slacking on their steels but why are you using no steel teams in the Fezandipiti Cobalion economy? This ignores other stuff like AJet Craw, it's got the defensive integrity of a wet tube sock, and unless you manage to actually pull off a tidy up this thing is revenge killed by any scarfer in the tier. I just think HO has better shit to do yknow go slot in that Yanmega you guys undersold and suddenly you'll see the vision I promise.

->UR
Damn didn't know you guys ran a charity org for the less fortunate you guys are so kind.. Evict these do-nothing BUMS off the VR, STAT. Thundurus-I is a worthless Thundy-T walled by thundurus-T, maybe after the suspect and get some games showcasing this thing I'll give it the nod but as of right now yeah no. Gligar... It's roostless now and sure, I can see some defensive qualities but I also see an incredibly abusable and fairly passive ground on my screen right now. It lays them up and does practically nothing else. Typhlosion-H is probably the most egregious of these because absolutely WHY are you here. What do you do. Cyclizar punks it, Moltres is a roadblock, and if I want a cobalion check with the ghost typing I'll use Legion-F. Atleast that thing can clear games with Agility Ice beams...

A- -> B+
This things role feels... weird. I think alot of times it's just HOs defacto "get out of jail free" card, and in that job... it's just shit im sorry. This mon is not scary on HO, especially with a red card, it's just a nuisance. Sure it's valuable but I find it's traits lacking on HO. On bulky offense it fairs better, but can we really call that an A- caliber threat? I don't really think so. It's good, I don't think it's A- good. Things like Cobalion / Hippo on all squads is annoying, and stuff on the more "fringe" end like FP amoonguss, Vileplume and moltres fair worse but are still roadblocks in the way of a mimikyu victory on BO. I also don't find it preys on enough. Sure, sneak is good for stuff like Gengar, Azelf and Gardevoir, but again, is that A- worthy? It's good, but I just think it's punching above it's paygrade.

A- -> A/A+
I'm surprised both of these 2 didn't break into A rank proper, and I'm surprised Volcanion didn't even crack higher than that. Blastoise is possibly HOs most dangerous wincon on offer, Shell smash toise is amazing, and alot of times you can mop up games with next to zero resistance besides emergency teras and cyclizar pretending to take ice beams. We put Iron leaves in A rank, let's put HOs 3rd posterchild up there too. Volcanion though, now that thing is BOs dream. Cyclizar is unfortunately not an answer to volcanion thanks to body press, waters on the rise like Swampert and Empoleon make this thing smile something vicious, and alot of times it can just rip apart a team on a moments notice. It's one of the tiers best breakers, and I'd be unopposed to making it A+, and that goes for both of them, but especially Volcanion.

I have other takes, like Noivern, Swampert and Raikou to B+, ranking Braviary-H, and rising Necrozma. Unfortunately I dont have good enough replays for H-Brav yet, and the others I'm too lazy/have posted about already in metagame thread, but I think this is more than sufficient for now.

 

[Heatranator]

-> A-/A
Okidogi is a mon I have been using on a team recently, and this thing is absolutely disgusting, idk why its A- and not A. It absolutely decimates teams that cannot hit it for super effective damage on the special side or for 4x damage quickly. This leaves iron leaves, gardevoir, azelf, mew, reuniclus and slowbro as the options mainly to beat it, since every other attack is bouncing off of it. A simple tera dark alleviates this issue and means it now can snowball past the rest of the meta. I even beat a hoopa-u which had zen headbutt without tera'ing and despite getting burned, won a game with it since they could do 8% max to okidogi. This mon is seriously undderated and needs to be higher.
-> A-/A
Hear me out, bulky maus with t-wave. I've used this set in OU and if it can take a hit there, it can definetely take a hit here. I showed a calc in which it can always live a +1 necrozma photon geyser with just max hp ev's, which is insane. This allows it to get off t-waves, which cripple the opposing team and allow it to get a tidy up off, which allows it to deal more damage despite not investing in attack. Combine this with encore, which can disrupt sucker punch from bisharp and allow it more opportunities to do its thing, and maushold can be really annoying.
-> C+/B
I know that this is a big jump, but hear my out. What is switching into dragon energy besides fairy types and specially defensive empoleon? Answer, nothing. The fairy types get destroyed by tera steel tera blast, which just leaves empoleon. Unlike something like crawdaunt, regidrago actually has good defenses and a workable speed stat, which means scarf sets, which are the most dangerous, thrive. Sure, there is salamence in the tier, but they do completely different things. I think it could go even higher as to A, but I'll rein it in a bit for now
-> C-/B-
I understand why tentacruel is C-, but that's because people are using it completely wrong. Sure, it can rapid spin, but that's not the set I'm talking about. The set I'm talking about is sd tentacruel. With poison+water stab moves, with rapid spin to provide utility in the early/mid game, tentacruel is only resisted by empoleon and basculegion in the tier, which while great mons, don't want to boosted liquidation's as the 4hit ko and 3hit ko repsectively, and in empoleon's case it can sd up again to make that a 2hit ko. Tentacruel does have issues as an sd mon, it is decently frail and can be outsped by fast scarfers even at +1, but it does have a great niche in the tier and is comparable to other B- mons.

 

[Master Chief]

I'd like to briefly go over some of the rankings, I think what LBN wrote was generally pretty accurate but I wanna write on a few more of these guys starting from the top tiers:

A+ rank:
Thundurus-therian doesn't feel like A+ viability. Sure it's very threatening and a good pivot but defensively offers very little and it's not easy to just slap it on a team without having to build around it unlike the way moltres probably can now because it can check x, y, z. I'd put this in A.

A- rank:
Azelf: Doesn't feel like it's all that good, I've struggled to build and justify azelf on BO because for it to realistically be useful in av bike tier, it needs to tera which can have kinda bad implications dependin on the rest of the opponent's team. I'd put this in B or B+
Reuniclus: Given hoopa's recent departure I'd put this now at A. Both AV and cm sets are very potent and now there's not a whole lot that actually likes switching into this guy.
Volcanion/Slowbro: Feel like either of these two can go into A. Bro should get infinitely better with both hoopa and zarude gone because it doesn't have to run a lot of coverage and can stick to standard stabs and cm/twave. Volcano has been good for sometime now but I won't die on the hill that it needs to go to A.
Kleavor/Maushold: Some of these guys I feel should go to B+ or lower. HO is occasionally good but doesn't have its place like it did w jug or zarude and the tier is settling more into BO/balance. They are ok but not all the amazing

B+ rank:
Amoong: Can stay in B+ or go to A-, don't really care that much
Basculegion-F: This had a bit of a falling off after zarude entered the tier but since its departure to me it's pretty good. It hits hard vs common staples and switches well into coba while being able to pivot vs bike or hit it decently hard w ice beam. Definitely should be A- imo.
Feraligatr: Doesn't feel like a B+ mon because imo we have better offensive waters. It's definitely threatening if it can get a dance up but unlike gyara doesn't have intim or the typing to do it all that well. Would put this in B
Rhyperior: This should minimum go to A- if not A. Has several advantadges over hippo including a fire and normal resist, secondary stab that hits the flys that like to abuse hippo and hits a lot harder. Hippo is good for longevity but rhyperior has definitely more of an immediate presence and isn't even that easy to switch into unless ur running slowbro.
Slither Wing: Would drop to B but again idc that much

B rank:
Magnezone: Would put in B+ or A-, it's a good mon that pivots in well vs things but also hits really really hard if specs. The water/grounds aren't very common so there's not a huge amount that resist its stab combo anymore.
Milotic: Feel like she can go to B+ as well now that hoopa is gone, haze sets are gonna be valuable to be able to slow the pace of the game down a bit and also keep reuni in line.
Noivern: Also feel like this is a B+ mon. It has a good mu vs HO and can surprise fairies with specs boomburst shenanigans as a more niche set. Super fast taunt/u-turn is always good and even tho it's a bit awkward to often have to run two dragons, it works out decently well for it.
Swampert: Good pivot on more offensive teams, would put in B+ as well.

Too lazy to do the rest :)

 

[THE_CHUNGLER]

Bisharp A- -> A This guy is still cooler than cooler, Ice Fucking Cold. Priority is so valuable in this meta and bisharp is without question the easiest to fit on a team and one of the strongest options to boot. The 1st 3 moves SD/Iron Head/Sucker are very linear with limited room for experimentation, but I think that last slot is fairly flexible. Low kick does 60% to the #1 mon in the tier, throat chop is a reliable stab, and even options like Tera blast water can completely ruin opponents that thought they were safe switching in hippowdon or moltres. It can even support team members with Twave to cripple Coba and Moltres if you really want to go there! Because of its strong priority, I feel a lot more comfortable running a slower scarfer like basculegion or gardevoir that are amazing at cleaning games, because I know I have that sucker punch in the back even if my scarfer is outsped.

Bish’s typing lets it switch in on many top meta threats due to its immunities and resistances combined with Eviolite. It provides a psychic immune and flying resist when compared to cobalion, and it can punish fairies clicking Moonblast with a Defiant attack boost. It’s a strong bulky mon that you can throw into Fezandipiti’s u-turn for example and not lose all offensive momentum, which isn’t otherwise easy to find. It’s immunity to sandstorm and toxic while being rock resistant means the main form of passive damage it has to worry about are burn, spikes, and rocky helmet. That’s a shorter list than most mons can boast, and even after it’s been chipped down, its sucker punch can still be saved for endgame situations where it’s needed.

When comparing bish to the top meta game threats, it has good match ups into many of them, while struggling with Moltres, Cobalion, and Hippowdon without Tera. Even these three can be exploited with Tera and depending on the bisharp set, which you can tailor to your team. It doesn’t need Tera to do its job of checking dangerous setup sweepers, but it can use Tera to turn into an absolute monster against something that was supposed to wall it. Tera fire for moltres, ghost for cobalion, and water/flying for hippo. I haven’t mentioned the mons it helps check and deal with (regardless of Bish’s fourth move/Tera) because the list is extensive, but here’s a start: Blastoise, Revavroom, Iron Leaves, Enamorus, Gengar, Fezandipiti, Zoroark, Reuniclus, Necrozma, Salamence, Basculegion, Rhypherior, Gardevoir, Moushold, Rain sweepers, Mew, Azelf, Thundurus-T, Cyclizar, Kleavor.

 

[GrandpaTheGreat]

In the showdown teambuilder, it seems like it still links to the archived viability ranking instead of this newer one. Not sure if y'all were already aware of this, but just wanted to note it just in case it was helpful