Sawsbuck Discussion

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Cherub Agent

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Sawsbuck
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Abilities: Chlorophyll / Sap Sipper / Serene Grace
Base Stats: 80 | 100 | 70 | 60 | 70 | 95

Sawsbuck, one of three new dropdowns to the NU tier, together with Charizard and Ludicolo. All three are weather-oriented, with Sawsbuck being an excellent Pokemon to use on Sun teams. Its STAB moves are only resisted by Steel-types, of which the only really relevant ones are Probopass and Bastiodon, and Sawsbuck has both Jump Kick and Nature Power to deal with them. Access to Swords Dance, a high base Speed and Attack, and all the moves it needs in order to be successful, and Sawsbuck is already establishing itself as one of NU's premier physical sweepers. Sawsbuck is in no way only good on Sun teams however. Sap Sipper gives it a free Attack boost and immunity to all Grass-type moves, including dangerous support moves such as Sleep Powder and Leech Seed.

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Sawsbuck
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sap Sipper / Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Frustration / Double Edge
- Horn Leech
- Nature Power


Sawsbuck reaches an astonishing 598 Attack after a Swords Dance boost (not counting Life Orb). With its 95 base Speed, it can outrun and OHKO most of the tier. Frustration is Sawsbuck's most reliable STAB move, but Double Edge is a more powerful option. Recoil coupled with that of Life Orb can wear Sawsbuck down pretty quickly though. Horn Leech is Sawsbuck's obligatory STAB Grass-type and signature moves that acts as a physical Giga Drain, and can recuperate massive amounts of HP from foes such as Alomomola. Nature Power turns into Earthquake on PO, which offers coverage on Steel-types. Interestingly enough, it doesn't trigger Sucker Punch's attack effect, so Sawsbuck can revenge kill opponents such as Absol.

Sawsbuck appreciates Pokemon that can set up Sun if it runs Chlorophyll. Volbeat and Regirock are excellent examples of this, and more offensive teammates such as Solar Power Charizard and Victreebell can help it power through teams. If Sawsbuck runs Sap Sipper, Pokemon with a quadruple weakness to Grass, such as Golem and Quagsire, make excellent teammates, as Sawsbuck can easily switch in and gain an Attack boost. Alomomola can also heal loads of Sawsbuck's HP with Wish, and Sawsbuck can come in on Grass- and Electric-type moves aimed at the fish. Other interesting moves that Sawsbuck can learn are Megahorn, in case you wish to OHKO Tangela after a boost, Wild Charge, should Drifblim pose a problem, Jump Kick, should you desire a powerful Fighting-type move and support moves such as Aromatherapy and Thunder Wave.


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Sawsbuck @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Horn Leech
- Frustration / Double Edge
- Megahorn
- Nature Power

CB Sawsbuck works kinda differently, but it is fucking awesome as a wallbreaker on sun teams. The main thing which sets it apart from Rapidash and other powerful Fire-types is the lack of an SR weakness and Horn Leech, which means it can keep switching in, deal heavy damage to the switch-in [possibly healing off entry hazard damage], and just switch out. This thing outspeeds even Scarf Cinccino in the sun, so the only thing it really needs to watch out for is Prankster TWave from Volbeat / Illumise.

You are free to run four coverage moves, and with some prediction and entry hazard support, stuff like Probopass and Golbat will get blown up by Nature Power / Double Edge, respectively.

Thanks to Calm Pokemaster for the Choice Band set
 
CB Sawsbuck works kinda differently, but it is fucking awesome as a wallbreaker on sun teams. The main thing which sets it apart from Rapidash and other powerful Fire-types is the lack of an SR weakness and Horn Leech, which means it can keep switching in, deal heavy damage to the switch-in [possibly healing off entry hazard damage], and just switch out. This thing outspeeds even Scarf Cinccino in the sun, so the only thing it really needs to watch out for is Prankster TWave from Volbeat / Illumise.

Sawsbuck @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Horn Leech
- Frustration / Double Edge
- Megahorn
- Nature Power

You are free to run four coverage moves, and with some prediction and entry hazard support, stuff like Probopass and Golbat will get blown up by Nature Power / Double Edge, respectively.
 
I've been using a Sub/SD set with Sap Sipper, which gives loads more opportunites to set up. As long as it avoids Will-O-Wisp on the switch it is free to set up on the standard stallbreaker Misdreavus, and Substitute often catches people off guard when they switch in expecting to be able to status it. It runs Leftovers, as it can often get up more than one Swords Dance.

Sap Sipper is the best thing about Sawsbuck imo, even if most of the Grass types in NU also run a Poison move as a secondary STAB.
 
That's certainly an interesting idea. Since Normal/Grass is excellent coverage itself, it can afford to give up Nature Power. Horn Leach hits the most common Steel-types neutrally anyway.
 
I don't understand why everyone is hyping up Sawsbuck in the sun, especially since Leafeon is just as fast, but slightly stronger and with better physical bulk. I guess Horn Leech makes it kind of better, and Normal-STAB is cool, and it does get more coverage (although Normal / Grass is usually enough), but really it's pretty much Leafeon with less physical bulk and semi-reliable recovery (Leafeon gets Wish + Protect, but I don't know any offensive Leafeon that runs that). I think Sap Sipper is a much better ability on him, giving him the ability to switch into common Grass-type attacks and get a free +1.
 
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superior Sawsbuck form, all others are for peasants.

I personally use something similar to the Band set but with Silk Scarf to make Double-Edge stronger and Wild Charge instead of Megahorn to cover all possible Sawsbuck switch-ins and hit them hard when they come in, Tangela is already hit really hard by +1 Double-Edge and can be 2hkoed with a bit of prior damage.
 
Double-Edge isn't 2HKOing Tangela anytime soon mate; at +1 and with LO it has a chance after SR.

Sawsbuck is a top threat, maybe the best all round physical sweeper in NU right now. It has all the coverage in the world to threaten basically every switch-in, but whatever option it chooses it must lose to something else so it's a great balance. Its speed is also just about right to be extremely threatening but not overwhelmingly fast. I'm loving it so far!
 
No Luck Involved said:
Double-Edge isn't 2HKOing Tangela anytime soon mate; at +1 and with LO it has a chance after SR.

Sawsbuck is a top threat, maybe the best all round physical sweeper in NU right now. It has all the coverage in the world to threaten basically every switch-in, but whatever option it chooses it must lose to something else so it's a great balance. Its speed is also just about right to be extremely threatening but not overwhelmingly fast. I'm loving it so far!
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant with a Swords Dance boost. Guess that wasn't clear. And Reptile, I also personally prefer Sap Sipper, its just that most Sawsbuck I've seen have been on Sun teams :/ Sap Sipper is a superior ability imo.

EDIT: Oh lol you meant for TropiOUs
 
Just to point out that Probo & Bastio are neutral to Horn Leech.

I've not already test Sawsbuck but i'll try him soon since an immunity to Grass Type and a Physical killing machine is a "please-try-me" scream.
 
BAMBI

...is pretty cute.



Life Orb Swords Dance is just so powerful. A +2 LO Double-Edge makes even physically defensive Amoonguss and Weezing cry.

252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Levitate Weezing (+Def): 80% - 95% (270 - 319 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Amoonguss (+Def): 88% - 104% (384 - 451 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 28% chance to OHKO.

Very little can wall it. However, my problem with Double-Edge is that it just kills Sawsbuck so fast. That's why I usually use Frustration over it. It's nice that Sawsbuck can heal some of that health back with Horn Leech, though! I've even had a bit of success with a more bulky boosting Sawsbuck with Synthesis > Nature Power; it doesn't get many chances to actually heal other than Horn Leech, even with the extra EV's into HP.

The Choice Band set is great too, and not just on sun teams. Sap Sipper is one of the niches it has over other Choice Band users. If it manages to acquire a Sap Sipper boost, the Pokemon that switches in will take a ton of damage if they switch in on the wrong move. Sawsbuck also has the extra Grass-type STAB and a few useful resistances such as water, electric, and ground that other Normal-type Choice Band users like Kanghaskan don't.

I haven't used Sub SD Sawsbuck that much, nor have I seen that many, but the lack of power can be annoying sometimes... the extra power provided with Life Orb is really useful. It makes it much easier to set-up, though!

All in all, Sawsbuck is a great Pokemon in NU and I'm glad it dropped. While the SD LO set is really strong, I encourage people to try and find good checks to it; there's got to be a few things out there other than Amoonguss, Weezing, Haunter, Hidden Power Fire/Ice Tangela, and Golbat that can check/counter it. Speaking of Tangela, I wonder if Hidden Power Ice will become the more used option on it now that Sawsbuck has dropped...
 
The ScarfGardevoir set posted in the apposite thread is a really good check to Bambi with or without sun. Faster sweeper (outside of the sun) and priority users are his worst enemy i thought.
 
Ewil said:
The ScarfGardevoir set posted in the apposite thread is a really good check to Bambi with or without sun. Faster sweeper (outside of the sun) and priority users are his worst enemy i thought.
Click to expand...

That's more of a revenge killer than a check; I'm looking for defensive checks/counters!
 
I'd say Haunter/ preferably Scarf Haunter can counter Sawsbuck pretty well. Immune to Normal STAB, Nature Power and Jump Kick, 4x resists Megahorn and resists Horn Leach (this will still do a lot, if boosted by Swords Dance). Haunter can OHKO with Sludge Bomb. Acrobatics Drifblim, as stated above, is also an excellent counter.
 
I personally have been using the Swords Dance variant of Bambi, and it definitely hasn't disappointed me. He makes a great partner with Rapidash, and on his own he can decimate most of the Pokemon in this tier after a Swords Dance boost. I've found that there are very few things that can come in on any of his attacks, but the previously mentioned Haunter and Drifblim are some of the best counters to him. Note that every calc I'm posting is going to be using the Life Orb Attacker set.

Haunter is a fairly good answer to Sawsbuck, and there's only 2 situations in which Sawsbuck would actually beat it:

Haunter coming in on Sawsbuck's Horn Leech after a Sap Sipper boost:
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech vs 4 HP/0 Def Haunter: 80.17% - 94.4%
2 hits to KO (pretty much a guaranteed KO with Stealth Rock on the field)

Haunter coming in on Sawsbuck's Horn Leech after a Swords Dance:
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech vs 0 HP/0 Def Haunter: 107.79% - 126.84%
100% chance to OHKO

Of course, if Haunter survives, Sawsbuck needs to get out of there.
252 SpAtk Haunter Sludge Bomb vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Sawsbuck: 120.6% - 142.52%
100% chance to OHKO

Then we have Drifblim, who's Acroblimp set (found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464560), while not officially on site yet, would be the "obvious" choice for countering Sawsbuck. Here's some calcs for that:

Drifblim coming in on Sawsbuck's Horn Leech after a Sap Sipper boost:
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech vs 0 HP/0 Def Drifblim: 47.85% - 56.46%
2-3 hits to KO (with Stealth Rock on the field, Sawsbuck is guaranteed to KO you, due to him outspeeding you with the second Horn Leech)

Drifblim coming in on Sawsbuck's Horn Leech after a Swords Dance:
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech vs 0 HP/0 Def Drifblim: 63.95% - 75.28%
2 hits to KO (even possibly an OHKO with SR up)

In return however, Drifbim's Acrobatics can OHKO Sawsbuck.
0 Atk Flying Gem Drifblim Acrobatics vs 0 HP/4 Def Sawsbuck: 130.56% - 154.49%
100% chance to OHKO

So as long as you don't let Bambi set up, and manage to come in on one of the attacks to which you have an immunity, it should be smooth sailing with Drifblim and Haunter.

Ewil said:
The ScarfGardevoir set posted in the apposite thread is a really good check to Bambi with or without sun. Faster sweeper (outside of the sun) and priority users are his worst enemy i thought.
Click to expand...
I believe you're referring to the Weather Revenger set (found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464692). This set can and will take out Sawsbuck given the right conditions.
If Sawsbuck's ability is Chlorophyll, then Gardevoir can counter it if she comes in on Swords Dance, after which she can OHKO with Focus Blast.
252 SpAtk Gardevoir Focus Blast vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Sawsbuck: 124.25% - 146.84%
100% chance to OHKO
If Sawsbuck's ability is Sap Sipper, then our Weather Revenger Gardevoir can even come in on Bambi's Horn Leech, which will also lead to it taking out Sawsbuck on the next turn.

Feel free to correct me if I've made any mistakes.
 
Substitute Haunter is a very unreliable check to Sawsbuck. It needs to switch into a Frustration, Double-Edge, or Nature Power to beat it. Switches into +0 Horn Leech? It's 2HKO'd. Switches into Swords Dance? OHKO'd. Switches into Substitute? 2HKO'd and gets to fire off an extra attack. Haunter needs a Choice Scarf to beat Sawsbuck.

Drifblim, however, is a very good Sawsbuck check.
 
Well, since non-Scarf Haunter Speed ties with Sawsbuck, I'd say it's got the clear advantage. Being able to switch into all of Sawsbuck's moves bar a boosted Horn Leach is desirable. It won't be OHKOd by anything unless Sawsbuck has a SD under its belt (even then Sawsbuck needs to beat it in the Speed tie to kill it with Horn Leach), and can always KO Bambi with Sludge Bomb.

I'd like to hear how Tangela and Weezing fare against Sawsbuck too. I know that Sawsbuck can easily come in on 3/4 of Tangela's moves, but a Sap Sipper boost isn't enough to 2HKO it without Megahorn. Tangela can do a number on Sawsbuck with Hidden Power, especially with a wee bit of SpA investment. Weezing resists most of Sawsbuck's moves too except for its Normal STAB, and its colossal Defense, and Pain Split should mean that it can stomach Bambi's assault. Fire Blast or Sludge Bomb will swiftly bring it down as well.
 
It probably requires testing but I think Tangela and Weezing would both be good responses. While Tangela takes the hit better, Weezing stands a much better chance of killing Sawsbuck in return, and if both switch in as Sawsbuck uses Substitute, its in a heap of trouble.
 
Just gonna throw it out there that Weezing gets destroyed by the LO + Double Edge set (takes a load a recoil, but damn its strong)

252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Levitate Weezing (+Def): 80% - 95% (270 - 319 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

If your using it under Sun then you can run Adamant and do about the same amount of damage. Pretty scary when you consider how bulky Weezing is meant to be.

Tangela fairs better, but not much better:

252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def): 55% - 65% (186 - 219 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

It can hit back with HP Ice/Fire and then regenerate health, but its still not going to take those all day.

Bambi strong.
 
Well, the recoil + chip damage from HP will take out Sawsbuck in a jiffy, but I think Sawsbuck is pretty darn strong. I mean, I like using Tangela quite a lot on balanced teams, but I find it hard to have another defensive reply for it other than like... Drifblim. And even Tangela get screwed over without HP Ice (especially if they have Sap Sipper and I Sleep Powder or something), or I have to risk not using HP Rock and giving Charizard free switches, etc. I also like using LO because the stronger Horn Leech (and hence stronger recovery) partially makes up for the recoil.

Yeah this is the beast we all know to love / hate by now...
 
As it appears, directly countering Sawsbuck with 100% efficiency seems to be extremely difficult. We've had a number of "counters", foremost among these Drifblim, Tangela, Haunter and Weezing. The problem is that Sawsbuck can use unorthodox moves to break through these Pokemon and still be efficient: it can use Wild Charge for Drifblim, pierce through Tangela with Megahorn, win the Speed tie against Haunter or smack Weezing around with Double Edge.

So perhaps the best way to deal with Sawsbuck is the same way we deal with other very powerful Pokemon: we resort to revenge killing. Suddenly, Sawsbuck doesn't seem so dangerous when we notice that it takes loads of damage from priority moves, mainly Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, ExtremeSpeed and Ice Shard. Its Speed, while very good, isn't exactly the best in the tier: Pokemon such as Charizard and Swellow can take it out. Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf can also easily bring Sawsbuck down.

Another move we've not been discussing is Baton Pass. Sawsbuck can afford to drop Nature Power on most occasions, and pass a 2x Attack boost other Pokemon such as Rapidash. What do YOU use as a Baton Pass recipient when using Sawsbuck?
 
I tried using Sawsbuck with Baton Pass recipients and I wasn't very successful, but I suspect this is because I used pretty frail, non-specialized recipients. Regirock looks like it'd be an absolutely amazing recipient as it takes Bug, Poison, Flying and Fire attacks all day and has fantastic coverage with Earthquake / Stone Edge / Drain Punch. The Fighting weakness sucks, but just pack Calm Mind Stored Power Musharna, and if need be you can even give Swords Dance boosts to that and get Stored Power's BP high from the get go. I'll list more if I can think of them.
 
Baton Pass sounds like it would be great for passing off +2 Atk to Rapidash when you're expecting an obvious Fire attack, and you'd basically be swapping off a deer that hits like a truck for a pony that hits like a nuke. Forgoing Nature Power doesn't sound that nice though... I like killing Absol and Skuntank. A lot.
 
Well, another counter to Sawsbuck might actually be Charizard. It naturally outspeeds Bambi, and can easily come in on 3/4 of Sawsbucks moves (Horn Leach, Nature Power, Swords Dance) and can KO it with either STAB move. This only applies to the Sap Sipper variant, as it obviousy can't do anything if Sun is up,seeing as Bambi KOs with Frustration.
 
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