Samurott Discussion

Roosh


#503 Samurott
Water
Base Stats:
HP: 95
ATK: 100
DEF: 85
SpATK: 108
SpDEF: 70
Speed: 70​


Samurott at first glance looks pretty mediocre. No secondary Ground/Steel typing like its brothers Swampert/Empoleon, no Dragon Dance like Feraligatr, and no hefty bulk like Blastoise. However, giving him a spot on your team could prove invaluable. His defenses are a respectable 95/85/70 for UU, his Special Attack is fantastic, and his Attack isn't too shabby either. I'll go through some movesets that will bring out the best in him.



Physical Choice:

Samurott @ Choice Band/Scarf
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252ATK/252SPE/4DEF
Moves:

-Razor Shell/Waterfall/Aqua Tail
-Megahorn
-Return
-Aqua Jet/Night Slash

Samurott's decent attack stat becomes wonderful with a Choice Band attached. The choice of move in the first slot is really up to preference. Razor Shell can be used for the Defense drops, Aqua Tail for more power (Although less accuracy), and Waterfall for a balance of power and accuracy. Samurott also gets the scarce but powerful Megahorn to decimate the Grass types that think they can switch in with impunity. You could substitute X-Scissor for it, but the power drop is very significant. Return is there to provide good coverage alongside your choice of Water STAB, and the last slot is mostly filler, but Aqua Jet can be run to score some KOs on weakened opponents that are a bit faster, and Night Slash can be used for Ghosts.



Special Choice:

Samurott @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 252SpATK/252SPE/4DEF
Moves:

-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Fire
-Air Slash/Grass Knot


Special Samurott has a few more options than his Physical form. Hydro Pump is ridiculously powerful STAB off of Specs, Surf is powerful as well, but if you opt for the better accuracy, you might miss out on a few key KOs. Ice Beam is there for overall great coverage, as well as your best hit against Altaria and Flygon, as well as grass types. Your choice of Hidden Power depends on what your fourth move will be. If you opt for Air Slash to pummel those Fighting Types, Hidden Power Grass/Electric is recommended. If you opt for Grass Knot to topple those opposing Water types, Hidden Power Fire is the way to go.



Bulky Otter:

Samurott @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent/Shell Armor (DW Only until release)
Nature: Bold/Modest
EVs: 252HP/252DEF/4SPE
Moves:

-Surf/Scald
-Encore/Taunt
-Ice Beam/Grass Knot
-Grass Knot/Protect/Rest


This set takes advantage of Samurott's DW Ability, Shell Armor. Blocking it from crits so its survivability increases. Unfortunately, until its release, non-DW players will have to settle for Torrent. The moveset is to take advantage of what little support Samurott's movepool offers. Surf can be used for power while Scald can be used for Burn. Encore is to shut down those Swords Dancers and Nasty Plotters that think you're setup fodder. While Ice Beam grants coverage. The last slot however is all dependent on what you prefer. If you would like more coverage, Grass Knot is your best bet to pummel Suicune and Milotic. If you want scouting, Protect is always a great option against Choice users, and Rest is if you want the added bulk. Beware though, it makes Samurott a sitting duck, and it's recommended that you run Aromatherapy/Heal Bell support. For the nature, Bold is for bulk, Modest to hit harder.



Swords Dance Priority:

Samurott@Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252ATK/252SPE/4HP
Moves:

-Swords Dance
-Aqua Jet
-Megahorn
-Return

Samurott shares one thing in common with his brother Feraligatr: Swords Dance and Aqua Jet. With lackluster Stats compared to Feraligatr, you'd think that it's just a wannabe set. Megahorn remedies this. Tearing through things that Feraligatr wishes it could. You could opt for Substitute over Megahorn, but then you'd be better off with Feraligatr. The basic strategy here is: Bring in Samurott on a resist, possibly a Scarfed Fire Type or Ice Type, Swords Dance on the switch, and proceed to tear through their team. Life Orb is to bring you into Torrent range faster, making Aqua Jet a 117 Base Power priority move. Or you could run Leftovers for added survivability. Muscle Band/Expert Belt are also options to feign a choice item, and whack them when they think they can send in a counter.



Some Damage Calcs:

Modest Specs Hydro Pump vs. Standard 252HP/0SpDEF Deoxys-D: 61.51%-73.03%-----Guaranteed 2HKO
Modest Specs HP Grass vs. 252HP Suicune: 48.51%-57.43%: 2HKO with Stealth Rock/Spikes
Modest Specs Ice Beam vs. 248HP/252SpDEF Zapdos: 60.57%-71.54% 2HKO
Adamant CB Megahorn vs. 252HP/252DEF Milotic: 51.52%-60.88% 2HKO
Adamant CB Megahorn vs. Standard 252HP/4DEF Deooxys-D: 78.29%-92.11%-----33.33% OHKO with Stealth Rocks, Guaranteed with max Spikes.



Alright guys, those are all the sets I have in mind at the moment. Let me know if you find anything wrong or have anything to add!

Discussion, GO!
 
This guy really shouldn't have a discussion. He's outclassed by Kingdra, and his sets would probably be individually outclassed by other pokes (Feraligatr and Floatzel for physical, Milotic and Suicune for special) even if Kingdra wasn't UU. Mixed might not be outclassed, but just not effective.
 
Arc Tech said:
This guy really shouldn't have a discussion. He's outclassed by Kingdra, and his sets would probably be individually outclassed by other pokes (Feraligatr and Floatzel for physical, Milotic and Suicune for special) even if Kingdra wasn't UU. Mixed might not be outclassed, but just not effective.
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I wouldn't really say that. Megahorn is stronger than Ice Punch. Altaria is really the main argument against it. Well, there's things like Victreebel but that has paper-thin defenses anyway. It's also better than Crunch against Psychics. Samurott also plays nothing like Floatzel in the first place- slightly lower Attack, better Sp. Atk, worse Speed, and better defenses.

Samurott also has impressive Sp. Atk. I think it'd lose to things like Empoleon if you want to run a pure Special stat, since it doesn't really have much coverage other than the usual Grass Knot/Ice Beam, but it means it can throw in a Hydro Pump on something like a LO physical to dent physical walls.

I'd honestly run a LO or Scarf set, that's mostly oriented towards physical/special attacks, with Megahorn/Hydro Pump thrown in to mix it up a bit.
 
Well since this thread is still up, I'd like to say there is something Samurott can definitely do that Empoleon can't, and it's using Encore.

For example on a purely special set...

Samurott @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Modest / Defensive Nature: 252 Sp. Attack, 252 HP (or whatever gets you to a lefties number), 6 Def/Speed/Sp. Def
+Surf/Scald/Hydro Pump
+Ice Beam/Blizzard (if on a hail team)
+Grass Knot
+Encore
Notes: So the main draw of using Samurott over Empoleon is the fact that he's a pure water type. That means he can do things like Suicune, Milotic and Slowbro, and switch in on stuff like Donphan or (unboosted) Mamoswine, threaten with STAB Water type attacks, or just go with Grass Knot to ward off any possible switch ins from opposing Water types (... like Suicune, Milotic and Slowbro!). The benefit it has over Milotic and Slowbro is a higher special attacking stat, and against Suicune, it's main draw is Torrent and Encore. Having lower HP means you're firing off intensely powerful water STAB, and having Encore prevents you from becoming set-up bait. Lots of set-up Pokemon reconsider staying in once you Encore them, thus making it very easy to force switches and breaking baton pass chains single-handedly.

It's defenses allow it to be a reliable water type, especially with screen support, and it doesn't shy away from being able to dish out damage either. Surf/Ice Beam, a staple among water types, gives it good coverage among the UU tier, while Grass Knot takes care of virtually all water type UU threats (except for things like Lanturn).

You could also carry a Hidden Power variant for coverage if you want, or Air Slash for Heracross, Hitmontop/lee. Though in the case of Heracross, I think if you can survive a Close Combat (at 100% HP), then you could just hit it with Surf for an OHKO.

Of course Samurott isn't not amazingly powerful, nor amazingly bulky. It's very balanced, but this averageness makes it very easy to support on a team. Fire-Water-Grass cores are nearly the epitome of balance as is, and you will most likely want all parts of the core to have an offensive option. Samurott makes a solid choice no matter what, but you should always consider if some other water type does it's job better.
 
On the special choice set STAB Hydro Pump hits harder than a super effective Air Slash except on Heracross.
 
The utter shock and dismay I felt after this thing was revealed meant I viewed it with disdain for a long time. I mean, why is is not Water/Fighting? Why the hell does it look so different from Oshawott? WHY?!

However, I picked it in game and after a while it I noticed it actually has a pretty unique and useful movepool. Megahorn, usable priority and great mixed attacking stats are all major pluses.

Has anybody considered it as a Shell Smash recipient? It could make excellent use of the +2/+2 attacking boosts, and quite frankly needs the all the speed it can get. Something along the lines of Hydro Pump/ Aqua Jet/ Megahorn/ Return?
 
nobody has considered it for that because it's outclassed by Feraligatr.

Crunch is more or less the same thing as Megahorn.
 
This is what makes samurott different from feraligatr:

656 Atk vs 383 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 384 - 452 (95.05% - 111.88%)

This is Adamant LO +2 Megahorn vs. 252/252 Tangrowth.
 
While Fera's +2 LO Adamant Ice Punch does 61.4% - 72.3%.

And why exactly would you use HP Grass over Grass Knot on the Specs set? Grass Knot has more power on the pokémon you'll need it (Milotic for example).

It can make a good anti-lead too.
 
I'm really not seeing Samurott doing anything special in UU. It's largely outclassed by most other Pokemon. Perhaps it'll have a bit more breathing room in RU instead?
 
I was using samurott today, a bulky SD set which did pretty well. +2 Megahorn ohkos Slowbro and Tangrowth with one turn of setup, which is something no other water type can claim. It also 2hkos Milotic (taking the atk drop from haze into account). It's only slightly weaker than Feraligatr and has very similar defenses, so I think Megahorn makes it worth using for teams that want a bulky water-type sweeper that can get past common counters to water types. At least until Feraligatr gets Sheer Force...
 
Breludicolo said:
nobody has considered it for that because it's outclassed by Feraligatr.

Crunch is more or less the same thing as Megahorn.
Click to expand...

Except that it isn't? If it was a solely physical set, of course it's outclassed by DD Feraligatr, but like I stressed in the post, Samurott has much better MIXED attacking stats, meaning it can really abuse the +2/+2 it receives, and would do a much better job of it than Feraligatr. So, in short, no.

Are you forgetting that Megahorns primary use is to hit Grasses for SE damage, and to do it with a higher BP than Ice Beam?

Even a Sheer Force boosted Crunch (104BP) doesn't do the same damage as an unSTAB'ed Megahorn (120BP).
 
Although I really like Samurott, I will never be able to justify using it over feraligatr or empoleon in UU for either a physical or specail sweeper. Megahorn is not enough. I have in fact used that swords dance set but to be honest, I havent really gotten much use out of it.

Maybe if I see a good mixed set I might consider using it but for now, I will do fine with other pokemon
 
The SD+Priority is pretty damn good. It can destroy a lot of stuff with the great coverage, which is only resisted by Empoleon. The stats it has mean it can pull off a Shell Smash Pass Sweeper set pretty good as well.
 
Rayquaza_ said:
Very underrated pokemon.
Samurott is an excellent Trick Room mixed sweeper. Megahorn/Grass Knot/Hydro Pump/Aqua Jet works wonder in OU with Drizzle though I'm not sure how it would fare in UU without the permanent rain.
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That might be its niche, it's speed is good enough for TR, though I don't see how Aqua Jet works in TR.
I can see Samurott working well as a shell smash recipient; I think it'll have to run max speed to avoid being outsped by Scarfgon after the +2, then the EVs should be spread apart. Going mixed is really the only way to avoid this thing being outclassed
 
I don't see Samurott having too much of an impact on the metagame, since he doesn't really have much to distinguish himself.
 
I do love Samurott. If not just for the fact he actually uses Swords and not just claws or arm blades.
Time to share a few Samurott sets I've been throwing around. Pretty much just sets that no other Water-type can pull off.

Copy-Tail
Samurott (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail
- Copycat

This is a pretty gimmicky set, but it works pretty well as long as you pack in Paralysis Support & SR/Spikes. I always prefer Murkrow's Prankster T-Waves. Just clear the field of faster Pokemon and Dragon Tail then use Copycat to abuse a +0 Priority Dragon Tail with is guaranteed to happen do to Dragon Tail always going last the turn before Copycat. After all the faster Pokemon are gone, Priority & PP are your only worries, but the rest of the set handles that pretty well. Hydro Pump drills holes in Donphan, Arcanine, & even Hitmontop if you run Spikes support. Ice Beam lets you nail Cottonee & Murkrow whose Prankster would annoy you. It also helps with Regenorator Tangrowth who doesn't mind being forced out nearly as much as other Pokemon. Outside of Hitmontop, this set runs complete train on Stall but outside of that it needs to be supported very well to work. Sp.Attack stat is used just to avoid Intimidate nullifying Samurott's only other means of attack besides residual.

Mixed Stall-Breaker
Samurott (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 164 SAtk / 92 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Waterfall
- Blizzard
- Grass Knot
- Taunt

Typical Stall Breaker set. Samurott is one of the few Water-types to learn Taunt and the only one except Keldeo that can run a mixed set. Waterfall keeps Chansey somewhat at bay while Blizzard & Grass Knot hit Tangrowth, Milotic, & Slowbro. Taunt keeps them from healing themselves or Poisoning Samurott. Blizzard is just a preference since Tangrowth doesn't always go down to an Ice Beam.

Taunt Swords Dance
Shoalgun (Samurott) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Taunt

Yet another stall breaker set, but this one works a little differently. It aims to hit everything as hard but trading SE coverage for sheer power. Taunt turns most other Water-type into fodder for Swords Dance. The two moves hits most common Pokemon for at least neutral damage outside of Pokemon like Empoleon & Altaria. Lum Berry can be used if Scald is a big annoyance, but outside of that, just like every Samurott set, this one LOVES good Paralysis Support.


Samurott is a bit of a chore to use, but he's not nearly as outclassed as many People seem to think, if not just for Taunt being so rare on Water-types and ever rarer on a Water-type with some bulk to it. He can be a great team player as long as the team plays for him as well if you know what I mean.

Definitely an RU Pokemon, but he can be used in UU if you really feel like it.
 
Samurott makes a great mixed sweeper in the lower tiers. I really like your swords dance+Taunt set Katakiri. I think Samurott has a lot going for it with access to Swords Dance and being able to run a mixed set, unlike most other waters. It also has quite a good support movepool for a offensively inclined poke.
 
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