Rowlet, Dartrix, Decidueye Discussion

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Rowlet
Grass/Flying
Abilities: Overgrow/Long Reach
HP: 68
Atk: 55
Def: 55
SpAtk: 50
SpDef: 50
Spe:42
Total BST: 320

Egg Moves:

Curse
Confuse Ray
Ominous Wind
Haze
Baton Pass
Defog

Level Up:

[Lv 1] Tackle, Leafage
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Peck
[Lv 11] Astonish
[Lv 15] Razor Leaf
[Lv 18] Foresight
[Lv 22] Pluck
[Lv 25] Synthesis
[Lv 29] Fury Attack
[Lv 32] Sucker Punch
[Lv 36] Leaf Blade
[Lv 39] Feather Dance
[Lv 43] Brave Bird
[Lv 46] Nasty Plot

TM's:

Work Up
Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Light Screen
Protect
Roost
Safeguard
Fustration
Solar Beam
Return
Double Team
Facade
Rest
Attract
Round
Echoed Voice
Steel Wing
Energy Ball
False Swipe
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Nature Power
Confide

Tutor:
Frenzy Plant

CnZ4jY.png


Dartrix
Grass/Flying
Ability: Overgrow/Long Reach
HP: 78
Atk: 75
Def: 75
SpAtk: 70
SpDef:70
Spe: 52
Total BST: 420

Egg Moves:

Curse
Confuse Ray
Ominous Wind
Haze
Baton Pass
Defog

Level Up:

[Lv 1] Tackle, Leafage, Growl, Peck
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Peck
[Lv 11] Astonish
[Lv 15] Razor Leaf
[Lv 19] Foresight
[Lv 24] Pluck
[Lv 28] Synthesis
[Lv 33] Fury Attack
[Lv 37] Sucker Punch
[Lv 42] Leaf Blade
[Lv 46] Feather Dance
[Lv 51] Brave Bird
[Lv 55] Nasty Plot

TM's:

Work Up
Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Light Screen
Protect
Roost
Safeguard
Fustration
Solar Beam
Return
Double Team
Facade
Rest
Attract
Round
Echoed Voice
Steel Wing
Energy Ball
False Swipe
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Nature Power
Confide

Tutor:
Frenzy Plant

dIPuoV.png


Decidueye
Grass/Ghost
Overgrow/Long Reach
HP: 78
Atk: 107
Def: 75
SpAtk: 100
SpDef: 100
Spe: 70
Total BST: 530

Egg Moves:

Curse
Confuse Ray
Ominous Wind
Haze
Baton Pass
Defog

Level Up:

[Lv 0] Spirit Shackle
[Lv 1] Spirit Shackle, U-Turn, Tackle, Leafage, Growl, Peck
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Peck
[Lv 11] Astonish
[Lv 15] Razor Leaf
[Lv 19] Foresight
[Lv 24] Pluck
[Lv 28] Synthesis
[Lv 33] Fury Attack
[Lv 38] Sucker Punch
[Lv 44] Leaf Blade
[Lv 49] Feather Dance
[Lv 55] Brave Bird
[Lv 60] Nasty Plot

TM's:

Work Up
Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Light Screen
Protect
Roost
Safeguard
Fustration
Solar Beam
Smack Down
Return
Shadow Ball
Double Team
Facade
Rest
Attract
Low Sweep
Round
Echoed Voice
Steel Wing
Energy Ball
False Swipe
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Giga Impact
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
U-turn
Substitute
Nature Power
Confide


Tutor:
Frenzy Plant
Grass Pledge

New Moves
Leafage: The user attacks by pelting the target with leaves. 100% Accuracy [Grass] 40 BP, Physical.

Spirit Shackle: The user attacks while simultaneously stitching the targets shadow to the ground to prevent them from escaping. 100% Accuracy [Ghost] 80 BP, Physical.

New Ability
Long Reach: The Pokemon uses its moves without making contact with the opponent.
 
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It's a shame that Decidueye doesn't learn grass support moves like Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, etc. It doesn't even learn Giga Drain, although it at least has Energy for a grass special attack. Anyways I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that Decidueye doesn't seem much like a Grass type, as it's best moves are Ghost, Flying, or other types.
 
A Ghost-type Pokemon with mixed offensive stat distribution but a much worse special movepool than the physical one.

What's this? The new Aegislash-blade?
 
Baton Pass is a bit of a coup for it IMO, though it's still either too slow or not bulky enough to take full advantage of it. Knock off users that outspeed it are particularly terrifying prospects, but I think that it'll definitely end up in one of the BL tiers because of shackle+baton pass alone.
 
Kietharr said:
Baton Pass is a bit of a coup for it IMO, though it's still either too slow or not bulky enough to take full advantage of it. Knock off users that outspeed it are particularly terrifying prospects, but I think that it'll definitely end up in one of the BL tiers because of shackle+baton pass alone.
Click to expand...
If the Baton Pass mechanics don't change, then Shackle + Baton Pass shouldn't be a problem
 
Zukrad said:
If the Baton Pass mechanics don't change, then Shackle + Baton Pass shouldn't be a problem
Click to expand...

There is still a problem in that it can choose which Pokemon it will Baton Pass in front of.

It's not Baton Passing a Perish Trap like long ago, but it can give a +6 boost to Attack or Special Attack without even trying. And if you wish, you can add Feather Dance to ensure the opponent cannot even hit your receiver hard.

(How many Pokemon can learn a +2 offensive boosting move, a trapping move and Baton Pass, by the way?)
 
Spirit Shackle is epic. I was expecting a lower BP, but 80 is just fantastic. Why is it fantastic? Because Decidueye hits hard and removes the ability for the opponent to switch. Pursuit weakness is bad, but the strongest Pursuiter around is Tyranitar who will not appreciate Leaf Blade or staying in to get Feather Danced.

Additionally, being able to BP Nasty Plot or Swords Dance while the opponent is locked in with Spirit Shackle is itself amazing. Yes, the trapping effect doesn't stay after you switch out, but your opponent can't double switch to a counter either, and Spirit Shackle does damage that few Pokemon resist (just Dark and Normal).

Long Reach U-turn is great for avoiding chip damage from Ferrothorn, Garchomp, and others.

Competitively I think Decidueye is going to go far. It has a great typing, a monster signature move, and enough coverage / other options to cause havoc.
 
It strikes me as a potentially viable specially defensive defogger, that can grab momentum comfortably courtesy of SS and BP.
 
I see some people are disappointed with the potential competitive nature of Decidueye. I personally don't mind. I still love Decidueye for its awesome design and typing. I'm glad we finally got a ghost type starter, as it's my favorite type.

I think Decidueye's got potential though. Its speed is disappointing, but its got some cool moves and decent stats.

In any case, I've loved Rowlet from the beginning, and I'm pleased with what we got.
 
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How well do y'all think would a Scarf set work? Base 70 Speed may be about the range to consider it, and a base 107 attack is pretty good. Maybe with Brave Bird/Leaf Blade/Spirit Shackle/U-Turn?
 
With Leaf Blade/Spirit Shackle/Brave Bird, Decidueye has great neutral coverage with it's only resist being Bisharp, but even that can be worked around with Low Sweep.
 
I think it is hard to gauge Decidueye's potential right now because it seems like a very niche support Pokemon. Attacking sets don't seem like they would work too well. It seems too slow to sweep with Swords Dance. As a Choice Scarf user, it has a good Physical Ghost STAB which is kind of unique so there is that. It can do some pretty fun stuff with Spirit Shackle, such as trapping a Pokemon and lowering their Attack with Feather Dance, or U-turning to an ally to set up another Pokemon. If Spirit Shackle sticks around after Decidueye switches out, unlike Mean Look, this strategy becomes much better. Its a very niche idea and I think its going to require a lot of testing to figure out how viable it is.

Being a spinblocker with Defog is, uh, interesting. Not being weak to Stealth Rock is nice, but you are still taking Spikes and Toxic Spikes damage as a Defogger. I think a lot of Decidueye's viability is going to come from how good a Grass/Ghost-type is going to be in the metagame, which is hard to say at this point. The typing has its benefits but my general thought is that the Grass-typing does more harm than good here, especially the Flying weakness. Also, it would be way better if it got Will-o-Wisp and Leech Seed.

In Little Cup, I don't think Rowlet has the right stats in the right places to work. It has decent defenses, Roost and Defog but two basically useless abilities. Its typing is hard to judge because the only other Grass/Flying-type Little Cup has had is Hoppip, and it has more issues than just its typing. Having the Grass STAB for Chinchou and Rock-types is nice though. If it had more Attack and Speed then it would be alright but right now all I see is a Pokemon only suited for Baton Pass chains or maybe being a BirdSpammer who can throw a STAB Grass move at Rock-types. The fact it doesn't get Acrobatics as Rowlet is kind of heartbreaking too.
 
I can see it running a decent Choice set with Spirit Shackle, Leaf Blade, Brave Bird, and U-Turn/Low Sweep. U-Turn if you want a pivot, Low Sweep if you want to plow through Dark and Steels
 
I'm having a hard time seeing Decidueye do a whole lot in OU, and it dissapoints me a little. I mean access to sucker punch is nice to help with the lack of speed. spirit shackle, low sweep, leaf blade and sucker punch could actually do some damage. or maybe an ominous wind set or something? Idk, I'm not the greatest at thinking up sets or really seeing how things are without a meta to use them in or anything like that lol. I'm still going to try my absolute hardest to make this thing work in OU though because it looks too damn sick.
 
Joker8417 said:
I'm having a hard time seeing Decidueye do a whole lot in OU, and it dissapoints me a little. I mean access to sucker punch is nice to help with the lack of speed. spirit shackle, low sweep, leaf blade and sucker punch could actually do some damage. or maybe an ominous wind set or something? Idk, I'm not the greatest at thinking up sets or really seeing how things are without a meta to use them in or anything like that lol. I'm still going to try my absolute hardest to make this thing work in OU though because it looks too damn sick.
Click to expand...

You're right about the meta ultimately deciding where every mon falls. That being said, with the information we have so far, its hard to visualize most of the non-legendary/UB mons in tiers above UU. Either their movepools are lacking, or they're hindered in speed.

That being said, Spirit Shackle/Baton Pass seems like a promising combination
 
The thing about tiers is that you never truly know until it happens. There are times when you think "oh, this mon could never be in this tier," then it's revealed something about that pokemon makes them viable in that tier. A Pokemon could be completely average/below average in just about every way, but have some sort of saving grace that justifies their use in a specific tier. Though I do admit I have a hard time seeing Decidueye in OU atm.

Has anyone thought about the potential use of Long Reach? Since Decidueye will most likely be used a physical attacker more often than not, Long Reach would keep it safe from things like Rocky Helmet. Though I suppose that would depend on the distribution of that item/abilities that cause harm on impact and the viability of Decidueye in terms of dealing with those pokemon.
 
Deck Knight said:
Spirit Shackle is epic. I was expecting a lower BP, but 80 is just fantastic. Why is it fantastic? Because Decidueye hits hard and removes the ability for the opponent to switch. Pursuit weakness is bad, but the strongest Pursuiter around is Tyranitar who will not appreciate Leaf Blade or staying in to get Feather Danced.

Additionally, being able to BP Nasty Plot or Swords Dance while the opponent is locked in with Spirit Shackle is itself amazing. Yes, the trapping effect doesn't stay after you switch out, but your opponent can't double switch to a counter either, and Spirit Shackle does damage that few Pokemon resist (just Dark and Normal).

Long Reach U-turn is great for avoiding chip damage from Ferrothorn, Garchomp, and others.

Competitively I think Decidueye is going to go far. It has a great typing, a monster signature move, and enough coverage / other options to cause havoc.
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Lets not forget that not only is it a Spinblocker, its a spinblocker that has hazard removal. And with a Z move thats the strongest Ghost attack discovered thus far, SOMEONE is going to die.
 
The lack of Will o' Wisp really hurts me (and Decidueye) a lot.
Still, we have a spinblocker which can deal with spinners (Starmie and Excadrill), but at the same time they can easily overwhelm the owl with their coverage.

The problem is the nature you choose: Jolly seems to me the right choice because you have a better physical movepool, but still you speed-tie with Bisharp...

Strong UU material, but Ghosts in OU or are both fast and strong at the same time (i.e. Gengar) or are bulky with a good defensive typing (i.e. Mega Sableye).
 
Spirit Shackle / BP / (Feather Dance/Synthesis) / (SD/NP) looks super toxic to me. Y'all laughing at it but guess who you'll call prophet when it gets the boot from OU.
 
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