Roserade (Life Orb)+

[Heysup]

Okay, now that im back writing analysis, I decided to write this set that I came up with and tested extensively, and it has worked absolute wonders for me.

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/roserade
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Ground
move 2: Leaf Storm
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is meant to give Roserade more longevity, without reducing its ability to deal massive damage to your opponent. This set excels at wall breaking in its own way, by preventing recovery by slower Pokemon such as Chansey with Sleep Powder, limiting the amount of times they can switch into a STAB Leaf Storm. For example, if Chansey switches into Leaf Storm, it will be put to sleep before it can use Softboiled, giving you a free turn to switch and scare it away. Now, all you need to do is rinse and repeat until Chansey is in KO range, and depending on your damage rolls it could possibly even be Chansey's second switch-in. Substitute is a decent option to ease prediction as well, though having a recovery move is usually much more important.</p>

<p>On top of having enough firepower to beat Chansey (albeit in two switch-ins), Roserade also possesses some nice special bulk and a recovery move. Synthesis is recommended so that you aren't forced out immediately after you recover, which makes sure you aren't set up on. Rest is a viable option because of Natural Cure, allowing you to fully recover regardless of weather conditions as long as you are willing to switch out. As an alternative to Sleep Powder, Hidden Power Fire or Ground can be used to hit Registeel for super effective damage, and with Synthesis, Roserade can actually beat Registeel. However, Sludge Bomb is generally superior to Hidden Power due to having high base power and STAB for late game sweeping.</p>

<p>The recommended EVs for this set are simple, maximum Special Attack and Speed. These help Roserade outspeed most Life Orb Moltres, and neutral natured base 85 Pokemon, while retaining the firepower needed. Alternatively, you can use an EV set like 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe. These EVs for this set are made to give Roserade a decent amount of bulk, with just enough Speed to be effective. 112 Speed EVs allows Roserade to outpace Pokemon such as Blaziken and Honchkrow, and Special Attack needs to be maximized for maximum damage. The rest of the EVs should be put into HP to give Roserade some much needed survivability, making Synthesis more effective. With 144 HP, Roserade will avoid a 2HKO from Milotic's Ice Beam most of the time, making it a near flawless switch-in.</p>

<p>This Roserade set benefits from similar Pokemon to the other sets, although it is capable of being effective on its own. Fire-types, Registeel, and Regirock are able to take Fire and Flying-type attacks aimed at Roserade. However, this set also requires a Pokemon who can OHKO Chansey without any set up, so that after it is slept by Sleep Powder, you can force Chansey out before it recovers HP. Pokemon like Blaziken, Hitmonlee, and basically any strong Fighting-type can do this job.</p>

<p>Offensively, Pokemon like Espeon and other specially oriented Pokemon enjoy having Chansey out of the picture.</p>

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Moving to Analysis Workshop, since this isn't a UU Revamp.

I just lost 3 pokemon to Sub/Leaf Storm/Sludge Bomb/Extrasensory Roserade out of sheer unexpectedness...although it's not like this thing is really getting past Chansey any time soon unless you get really lucky with Sleep Powder + sleeping long. I'll take some hacks at this some time later

 

[Heysup]

Moving to Analysis Workshop, since this isn't a UU Revamp.

I just lost 3 pokemon to Sub/Leaf Storm/Sludge Bomb/Extrasensory Roserade out of sheer unexpectedness...although it's not like this thing is really getting past Chansey any time soon unless you get really lucky with Sleep Powder + sleeping long. I'll take some hacks at this some time later

Ok.

To clarify, the Substitute variant is the one EUM used, it took out your Crobat by surprise and swept you (like the analysis says).

The other set is the one that beats chansey (so its a pick: Chansey vs Crobat sort of deal), let me fabricate a log for you.

Chansey is fast asleep!
Chansey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Chansey restored 6% of its health.
---
HeYhEy switched in Blaziken (lvl 100 Blaziken ?).
Chansey is fast asleep!
Chansey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Chansey restored 6% of its health.
---
HeYsUp switched in Slowbro (lvl 100 Slowbro ?).
Pointed stones dug into Slowbro.
Slowbro lost 12% of its health.
Blaziken used Superpower.
It's not very effective...
Slowbro lost 26% of its health.
Blaziken's attack was lowered.
Blaziken's defence was lowered.
Blaziken lost 10% of its health.
---
HeYhEy switched in Roserade (lvl 100 Roserade ?).
Slowbro used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Roserade lost 17% of its health.
---
HeYsUp switched in Chansey (lvl 100 Chansey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Chansey.
Chansey lost 12% of its health.
Roserade used Sludge Bomb.
Chansey lost 25% of its health.
Roserade lost 10% of its health.
Chansey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Chansey restored 6% of its health.
---
Roserade used Leaf Storm.
Chansey lost 38% of its health.
HeYsUp's Chansey fainted.
Roserade's special attack was harshly lowered.
Roserade lost 10% of its health.
---

Stealth Rock is in play, and Chansey is 4 Hp / 252 SpD.

 

[User 12783]

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Sleep Powder / Extrasensory
move 2: Leaf Storm
move 3: Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Synthesis / Substitute
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Roserade set is meant to deal major damage, while also giving Roserade some longevity. This set excels at wall breaking in its own way by using Sleep Powder to disable recovery moves such as Chansey's Softboiled, limiting the number of times they can switch into a STAB Leaf Storm. For example, Chansey can switch into Roserade's first Leaf Storm, and then be hit with Sleep Powder so it can't use Softboiled. Now all you need to do is rinse and repeat until Chansey is in KO range, and depending on your damage rolls it could possibly even be Chansey's second switch-in. Alternatively, with the aid of Substitute and Extrasensory, this Roserade set can be a worthwhile Crobat killer as well. Roserade is very effective Crobat bait, and with Roserade's monstrous Special Attack stat Extrasensory will OHKO Crobat with Stealth Rock and almost always OHKO it without Stealth Rock. To choose which move is needed, you have to base it on who your team is more afraid of, Crobat or Chansey.</p>

<p>On top of having enough firepower to beat Chansey (albeit in two switch-ins), Roserade also possesses some nice special bulk and a recovery move. Synthesis is recommended so that you aren't forced out immediately after you recover, which makes sure you aren't set up on. However Rest is a viable option, allowing you to fully recover, and it isn't effected by weather conditions, not to mention Roserade has Natural Cure to remove its status when it switches out. Hidden Power Ice can be used over Sludge Bomb (if you are using Sleep Powder, otherwise you need to stick with Sludge Bomb) to OHKO Crobat with Stealth Rock in play, while retaining the ability to hit foe Grass-types super effectively. Sludge Bomb is generally superior however, due to having high base power and STAB for late game sweeping.</p>

<p>The EVs for this set are made to give Roserade decent bulk, with just enough Speed to be effective. 112 Speed EVs allows Roserade to outpace Pokemon such as Blaziken and Honchkrow, and Special Attack is maximized for the greatest output of damage. The rest of the EVs were dumped into HP to give Roserade some much needed survivability [What do the HP EVs achieve? A Life Orb number, etc.? Please elaborate on why you specifically put those EVs there.] .</p>

<p>This Roserade set benefits from similar Pokemon to the other sets, such as Fire-types, Registeel, and Regirock to take Fire and Flying-type attacks aimed at Roserade. However, this set requires a Pokemon who can OHKO Chansey without any set up, so that after it is slept by Sleep Powder, you can force Chansey out before it recovers HP. Pokemon like Blaziken, Hitmonlee, and basically any strong Fighting-type can do this job.</p>

<p>Offensively, Pokemon like Espeon and other specially oriented Pokemon enjoy having Chansey out of the picture. Since this set can deal with Crobat, and the fact Crobat is such a prominent threat to many sweepers in UU, using the Substitute variant of this Roserade set will benefit any offensive team.</p>

Can you explain the underlined part? You need to rephrase that. Do you mean while it is sleeping? Or are you referring to the moment after it has awaken?

 

[wildfire393]

Can you explain the underlined part? You need to rephrase that. Do you mean while it is sleeping? Or are you referring to the moment after it has awaken?

He means like in the log he shows: You Leaf Storm Chansey as it switches in, Sleep Powder it before it can Softboiled, then swap out to something like Blaziken to scare it out before it wakes up.

 

[Fuzznip]

I think Rest should be an option beside Synthesis / Substitute.

Since Roserade has Natural Cure, it can Rest off it's health once it's below, say, 20% health. It could switch out and switch back in at full health, being ready to sweep again. It's almost like Shaymin I guess you can say. This especially works if your opponent is asleep and you fire out attacks until you're near low health, then you can repeat the process over again once you've just Rested.

I mean, why doesn't Shaymin use Synthesis?

 

[wildfire393]

I think Rest should be an option beside Synthesis / Substitute.

Since Roserade has Natural Cure, it can Rest off it's health once it's below, say, 20% health. It could switch out and switch back in at full health, being ready to sweep again. It's almost like Shaymin I guess you can say. This especially works if your opponent is asleep and you fire out attacks until you're near low health, then you can repeat the process over again once you've just Rested.

I mean, why doesn't Shaymin use Synthesis?

He mentions this as an option in the set.

Also, some Shaymin do use Synthesis.

My main question is, how is this differentiated from LO Shaymin? Sleep Powder is much more reliable than Grasswhistle, but Shaymin can do the Sub/Grass Move/Rest/Psychic Move Lure out Crobat and Kill him even better than this can. I'd focus on the anti-Chansey Sleep Powder Set, and leave the Crobat-solving to Shaymin.

 

[Fuzznip]

He mentions this as an option in the set.

Also, some Shaymin do use Synthesis.

My main question is, how is this differentiated from LO Shaymin? Sleep Powder is much more reliable than Grasswhistle, but Shaymin can do the Sub/Grass Move/Rest/Psychic Move Lure out Crobat and Kill him even better than this can. I'd focus on the anti-Chansey Sleep Powder Set, and leave the Crobat-solving to Shaymin.

I know he mentions it in the set, it should be slashed because it can be more viable than Synthesis and Substitute. It probably should be before Synthesis to.

 

[Heysup]

My main question is, how is this differentiated from LO Shaymin? Sleep Powder is much more reliable than Grasswhistle, but Shaymin can do the Sub/Grass Move/Rest/Psychic Move Lure out Crobat and Kill him even better than this can. I'd focus on the anti-Chansey Sleep Powder Set, and leave the Crobat-solving to Shaymin.

The differences are very present:

-Higher SpA (having 84 more SpA than Shaymin to be exact, which is alot)
-Poison secondary typing (giving it a strong STAB coverage move, shaymin doesnt have one, not to mention Toxic Spikes).
-Sleep Powder (this is the big one)
-Special Defensiveness (this helps switching into STAB Surfs land even unstabbed Ice Beams).

Shaymin fails to OHKO Crobat with Psychic without Stealth Rock too, while Roserade doesn't rely on it as much.

I know he mentions it in the set, it should be slashed because it can be more viable than Synthesis and Substitute. It probably should be before Synthesis to.

Try the set out, I have used both and I will honestly say that Rest is not nearly as good. You can't recover the same way Synthesis helps you recover, and Rest leaves you painfully open to a Chansey switch-in when it isnt asleep. Basically, Synthesis > Rest because the Pokemon you are preventing from healing (even water-types like Slowbro and Milotic), can come in when you rest and heal back to full health. Rest is still viable, so i mentioned it. I removed it from the set because it was less cluttered, I could add it back on though, I just want to avoid the "clutteredness" if at all possible.

 

[wildfire393]

The differences are very present:

-Higher SpA (having 84 more SpA than Shaymin to be exact, which is alot)
-Poison secondary typing (giving it a strong STAB coverage move, shaymin doesnt have one, not to mention Toxic Spikes).
-Sleep Powder (this is the big one)
-Special Defensiveness (this helps switching into STAB Surfs land even unstabbed Ice Beams).

Shaymin fails to OHKO Crobat with Psychic without Stealth Rock too, while Roserade doesn't rely on it as much.

Some things of note:

1) Shaymin's Seed Flare is a significantly better move than Roserade's Leaf Storm, which goes a long way towards bridging that 25 base points of SpA gap.
2) Assuming 4 HP EVs and no SpD EVs, Shaymin has a Special Defensive capacity of 342*236 = 80712. Roserade, on the other hand, has a Special defensive Capacity of 262*246 = 64452, which is only 80% of Shaymin's (5 points of base Special defense do not make up for 40 points of base HP)
3) Modest Shaymin's LO Psychic does 83-99% to 114 HP EV Crobat. Modest Roserade's LO ExtraSensory does 87-102% to the same Crobat, which also has a large chance not to OHKO without SR Damage or previous damage.
4) Roserade's Poison typing does indeed provide it with some nice resistances (eliminating its Bug and Poison weakness and giving it a Fighting Resist and a double Grass resist), but it also eliminates his Ground Resist. And keeping in mind that most Bug/Fighting moves are Physical and Roserade has less than half the Physical Defensiveness that Shaymin has, this is largely counteracted. Additionally, Poison may provide decent coverage with Grass, but Shaymin has a wider variety of powerful coverage moves (such as Air Slash, Psychic, and Earth Power) that Roserade cannot measure up to.

 

[Heysup]

Some things of note:

1) Shaymin's Seed Flare is a significantly better move than Roserade's Leaf Storm, which goes a long way towards bridging that 25 base points of SpA gap.
2) Assuming 4 HP EVs and no SpD EVs, Shaymin has a Special Defensive capacity of 342*236 = 80712. Roserade, on the other hand, has a Special defensive Capacity of 262*246 = 64452, which is only 80% of Shaymin's (5 points of base Special defense do not make up for 40 points of base HP)
3) Modest Shaymin's LO Psychic does 83-99% to 114 HP EV Crobat. Modest Roserade's LO ExtraSensory does 87-102% to the same Crobat, which also has a large chance not to OHKO without SR Damage or previous damage.
4) Roserade's Poison typing does indeed provide it with some nice resistances (eliminating its Bug and Poison weakness and giving it a Fighting Resist and a double Grass resist), but it also eliminates his Ground Resist. And keeping in mind that most Bug/Fighting moves are Physical and Roserade has less than half the Physical Defensiveness that Shaymin has, this is largely counteracted. Additionally, Poison may provide decent coverage with Grass, but Shaymin has a wider variety of powerful coverage moves (such as Air Slash, Psychic, and Earth Power) that Roserade cannot measure up to.

Seed Flare isnt > Leaf Storm (120 BP vs 140 BP) for Hitting-and-running.

Not to mention this set has 297 HP, so I don't know what that gets you Special Defensively.

Poison typing allows you to switch into other Roserades and Shaymin more effectively. Obviously there is a trade-off with the ground resistances, but they both have benefits.

Sleep Powder, Poison-typing, and higher SpA are the main reasons to use this set > Shaymin, not to mention Shaymin is almost always LO, while Roserade is usually either scarfed or Spikes.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

I'd like to point out that another advantage Roserade has over Shaymin is that it OHKOes Steelix, or at least all the ones that I have encountered (252 HP/136 SpDef).

Roserade:
383 Atk vs 200 Def & 354 HP (140 Base Power): 375 - 442 (105.93% - 124.86%)

Shaymin:
328 Atk vs 200 Def & 354 HP (120 Base Power): 276 - 325 (77.97% - 91.81%)

A good amount of people were willing to leave in their Steelix in on Roserade only to be knocked out by Leaf Storm, too.

Shaymin being able to pull off this set never crossed my mind, though, and now that I see it, it looks like a pretty attractive option. Even though it lacks Sleep Powder, 101 HP Subs beat Chansey (or Subseeding). There are probably benefits for both sides that playtesting would make more apparent.

 

[Zepar]

Not to mention this set has 297 HP, so I don't know what that gets you Special Defensively.

4/0 Shaymin takes hits better than 144/0 Roserade on both sides and has higher speed, so it gets the jump on Arcanine with Earth power (Roserade fails to OHKO with Leaf storm after Stealth Rock and Sludge bomb only has a 1/3 chance to).

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Who cares if Shaymin arguably does this better? This is a Roserade thread.

STAB Sludge Bomb, and the OHKO on Steelix is more than enough to differentiate this set from Shaymin...and that's assuming Shaymin even stays in UU.

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Sleep Powder / Extrasensory
move 2: Leaf Storm
move 3: Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Synthesis / Substitute
item: Life Orb / leftovers (I'd use leftovers with Sub, personally)
nature: Modest
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is meant to give Roserade more longevity, without reducing its ability to deal massive damage to your opponent. This set excels at wall breaking in its own way, (removed "as well") by preventing recovery by slower Pokemon such as Chansey with Sleep Powder, limiting the amount of times they can switch into a STAB Leaf Storm. For example, if Chansey switches into Leaf Storm, it will be put to sleep before it can use Softboiled, giving you a free turn to switch and scare it away. Now, (comma) all you need to do is rinse and repeat until Chansey is in KO range, and depending on your damage rolls it could possibly even be Chansey's second switch-in. Alternatively, with the aid of Substitute and Extrasensory, this Roserade set can be an awesome Crobat killer. Roserade is very effective Crobat bait, and with Roserade's monstrous Special Attack stat Extrasensory will OHKO Crobat with Stealth Rock and almost always OHKO it without Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>On top of having enough firepower to beat Chansey (albeit in two switch-ins), Roserade also possesses some nice special bulk and a recovery move. Synthesis is recommended so that you aren't forced out immediately after you recover, which makes sure you aren't set up on. (removed "However") Rest is a viable option because of Natural Cure, allowing you to fully recover regardless of weather conditions as long as you are willing to switch out. Hidden Power Ice can be used over Sludge Bomb (if you are using Sleep Powder, otherwise you need to stick with Sludge Bomb) to OHKO Crobat with Stealth Rock in play, while retaining the ability to hit opposing Grass-types super effectively. However, Sludge Bomb is generally superior (removed "however") due to having high base power and STAB for late game sweeping.</p>

<p>The EVs for this set are made to give Roserade a decent amount of bulk, with just enough Speed to be effective. 112 Speed EVs allows Roserade to outpace Pokemon such as Blaziken and Honchkrow, and Special Attack needs to be maximized for maximum damage. The rest of the EVs should be put into HP to give Roserade some much needed survivability, as well as making its Substitutes a bit bulkier.</p>

<p>This Roserade set benefits from similar Pokemon to the other sets, although it is capable of being effective on its own. Fire-types, Registeel, and Regirock are able to take Fire and Flying-type attacks aimed at Roserade. However, this set also requires a Pokemon who can OHKO Chansey without any set up, so that after it is slept by Sleep Powder, you can force Chansey out before it recovers HP. Pokemon like Blaziken, Hitmonlee, and basically any strong Fighting-type can do this job.</p>

<p>Offensively, Pokemon like Espeon and other specially oriented Pokemon enjoy having Chansey out of the picture. Since this set can deal with Crobat, and the fact Crobat is such a prominent threat to many sweepers in UU, using the Substitute variant of this Roserade set will benefit any offensive team.</p>

I was talking to you about this, and you told me this cant be 2hkod by min spa Milotic, I was wondering why you didnt mention that? That seems like a very useful thing to me.

I'm also not too sure about leftovers, I havent tested this set personally...and the only time ive seen it, it had life orb. I'm not really dedicated either way, its just a suggestion.

 

[Heysup]

Thanks jrrrr.

I didnt edit in the leftovers Option, because I don't think losing the KO on Steelix, Crobat, and Chansey is worth it. Not to mention, SubSeed is probably better than this set w/ Leftovers.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

I don't really see the viability of Substitute as one of the main options. I mean yeah sub is nice and can ease prediction but it's basically like "let's throw sub over mixape/mixmence's least useful move." When there's a much much better option (in this case recovery and i'd say synthesis/rest in the last slot) i just think sub shouldn't be put on the set. Maybe set comments about how it can be useful. But a Pokemon that can be walled as hard as Roserade can be doesn't really want to switch into SR then throw up a useless sub as it's walled by Registeel or Drapion.

Back when Crobat was banned I used a set of Leaf Storm/Sludge Bomb/Grass Knot/Rest.

Now the first 2 moves are clearly necessary (HP Ice meeeeeh). Recovery is necessary I believe. So the third slot is the one you can mess around with. I liked Grass Knot as a grass move that wouldn't lower special attack for late game sweeping (poison type can suck sometimes) (energy ball is arguably better it'd be cool if x-act can do another one of those "average damage of grass knot" for uu again lol).

With Crobat in the metagame, Extrasensory is probably the better primary option in the 3rd slot. Though Crobat may not be around for much longer so get ready to delete all traces of it in a month or so lol.

Then as another option in the 3rd slot, Sleep Powder should be there. Pretty obvious. So I'd have the set looking like.

move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Extrasensory / Sleep Powder / Grass Knot
move 4: Synthesis / Rest

Substitute and HP Fire in the last slot. HP Fire can be useful against registeel since most don't have recovery and every time it switches in you'll be threatening a dent.

Oh and one last thing...the speed. Seriously only 112 speed on Roserade? I know there's not a lot between say 220 and 260 in the tier, but around 280-300 is where there's really a lot of clutter. There's a good number of base 95ers too that you could force a tie with (other roserade come immediately to mind). Running so little speed when you have the potential to break 300 just seems to be doing yourself a bit of a disservice. I don't know I've never used anything other than max speed on Roserade I'll obviously have to try out this spread but I really don't have high expectations for it.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Extrasensory / Sleep Powder / Grass Knot
move 4: Synthesis / Rest

I like this set, although I do like taking rest out and replacing it with HP Fire, then putting Rest and Substitute in the set comments. This set works really well with Substitute, Rest is just filler anyways, and Roserade really loves having that third attack.

Oh and one last thing...the speed. Seriously only 112 speed on Roserade? I know there's not a lot between say 220 and 260 in the tier, but around 280-300 is where there's really a lot of clutter. There's a good number of base 95ers too that you could force a tie with (other roserade come immediately to mind). Running so little speed when you have the potential to break 300 just seems to be doing yourself a bit of a disservice. I don't know I've never used anything other than max speed on Roserade I'll obviously have to try out this spread but I really don't have high expectations for it.

I can't comment on how useful the speed is, but using Substitute pretty much makes these concerns irrelevant anyways.

I support this set:
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Extrasensory / Sleep Powder / Grass Knot
move 4: Synthesis / HP Fire

with mentions of sub + rest in the set comments. Once Crobat gets banned, Extrasensory will be pointless anyways...but for now that lure is just too good to pass up.

 

[Heysup]

I don't really see the viability of Substitute as one of the main options. I mean yeah sub is nice and can ease prediction but it's basically like "let's throw sub over mixape/mixmence's least useful move." When there's a much much better option (in this case recovery and i'd say synthesis/rest in the last slot) i just think sub shouldn't be put on the set. Maybe set comments about how it can be useful. But a Pokemon that can be walled as hard as Roserade can be doesn't really want to switch into SR then throw up a useless sub as it's walled by Registeel or Drapion.

Too be honest Mixape and Mixmence are different because they are mixed and serve different purposes then this LO Roserade, and Roserade isn't really walled by Drapion anyway.

The main thing Roserade is missing without Sub, is the ability to bluff Leech Seed (which is especially effective if the opponent uses Baton Pass or U-turn) and easier KO Crobat. Easing prediction is especially important for Roserade because of Crobat, and the fact that a -2 SpA is bad news.

Back when Crobat was banned I used a set of Leaf Storm/Sludge Bomb/Grass Knot/Rest.

The issue here is that Crobat isn't banned yet. Grass Knot isn't as good as energy ball either >.>

Now the first 2 moves are clearly necessary (HP Ice meeeeeh). Recovery is necessary I believe. So the third slot is the one you can mess around with. I liked Grass Knot as a grass move that wouldn't lower special attack for late game sweeping (poison type can suck sometimes) (energy ball is arguably better it'd be cool if x-act can do another one of those "average damage of grass knot" for uu again lol).

With Crobat in the metagame, Extrasensory is probably the better primary option in the 3rd slot. Though Crobat may not be around for much longer so get ready to delete all traces of it in a month or so lol.

Losing Sleep Powder makes this set resemble a slower Shaymin. Sleep Powder is what makes this set able to take on Chansey as well. I could maybe switch around the set though.

Then as another option in the 3rd slot, Sleep Powder should be there. Pretty obvious. So I'd have the set looking like.

name: Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Extrasensory / Sleep Powder / Grass Knot
move 4: Synthesis / Rest

I dislike not having Sleep Powder, so here is what I think could work out better:


name: Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder / Extrasensory
move 4: Synthesis / Substitute

Keeping Substitute, and making sure Sleep Powder is the primary option. This also keeps it easy for when Crobat is banned (it'll happen lol), because we can just remove Crobat references and Sub + Extrasensory. This set needs Sleep Powder to beat chansey, which is why i'm for keeping it.

Keep in mind Uxie can't break Roserade's sub with U-turn (20.54% - 24.24%), so it can bluff SubSeed and lure Crobat out more effectively.

I mentioned HP Fire / Ground in the SCs too. If Registeel becomes more popular all of the sudden when crobat is gone, then HP Ground / Fire should probably be slashed in with Sludge Bomb though.

Thoughts?

EDIT: The Speed is there because it only needs to outspeed Pokemon like Blaziken / Honchkrow, while the HP Helps it switch into Milotic (Ice Beam doesn't 2HKO) and other random Pokemon.

However, come to think of it adding some EVs to hit 250 Spe isnt a bad idea to outspeed Absol.

The relevant Pokemon who it doesnt outspeed that a max Speed variant will are:

Absol
Max Speed Blaziken (CB / Specs only)
Max Speed Venusaur
Max Speed Gardevoir

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

I guess dropping the secondary grass attack is fine. maybe a set comment? who knows we'll see what others say. But I'm really against having Substitute on the set. Sub + Extrasensory doesn't even beat Crobat because U-turn breaks the sub. Is sub useful? Sure. More useful than recovery? Not even close. They're not even in the same league.

Too be honest Mixape and Mixmence are different because they are mixed and serve different purposes then this LO Roserade, and Roserade isn't really walled by Drapion anyway.

The main thing Roserade is missing without Sub, is the ability to bluff Leech Seed (which is especially effective if the opponent uses Baton Pass or U-turn) and easier KO Crobat. Easing prediction is especially important for Roserade because of Crobat, and the fact that a -2 SpA is bad news.

also they're not different at all. All 3 are life orbed attackers that depend on each move doing something different. They could all replace the least useful move (hp ice on mixape, earthquake on mixmence) with substitute. but they don't. because the set is about optimal coverage. and while roserade might be a little different because it's not going for optimal type/pokemon specific coverage, those last 2 moves play a huge role through sleep and recovery. throwing sub on there would indeed be the same as throwing it on mixmence.

also no one is going to fall for a leech seed bluff when you don't have lefties lol. if they do they're idiots.

And I'm going to test both speeds. If I find myself getting fucked in the ass not having enough speed then I'm going to say fuck that but if not then sure your spread works fine.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Too be honest Mixape and Mixmence are different because they are mixed and serve different purposes then this LO Roserade, and Roserade isn't really walled by Drapion anyway.

Well, Roserade isn't exactly fond of Drapion....

And I agree on the part where this is different than mixape/mence because Roserade's type coverage is mostly redundant. If you drop an attack on MixApe, it is getting walled by something...but Roserade is getting walled no matter what.

Losing Sleep Powder makes this set resemble a slower Shaymin. Sleep Powder is what makes this set able to take on Chansey as well. I could maybe switch around the set though.

Agreed.

name: Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder / Extrasensory
move 4: Synthesis / Substitute

Keeping Substitute, and making sure Sleep Powder is the primary option. This also keeps it easy for when Crobat is banned (it'll happen lol), because we can just remove Crobat references and Sub + Extrasensory. This set needs Sleep Powder to beat chansey, which is why i'm for keeping it.

Thoughts?

I like this, except Substitute really doesn't work well enough with Life Orb to go on the set itself. Just like Jabba said, if you use Sub and get walled hardcore like Roserade often does, you are really going to wish you had that extra HP. Sub deserves to go in the comments, but recovery will *always* be better. Taking 37.5% of your hp away before you even attack is a huge no-no on something as easy to wall as Roserade, but keep it in the set comments.

Also, one more thing...don't say "this has the firepower to beat Chansey"...say something more accurate like "this set can beat Chansey over multiple switch-ins by preventing its recovery"

 

[Heysup]

I see your point. I'll just mention it.

What do you guys think of changing the EV spread to 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe to outspeed Absol too? It gives Milotic a slightly higher chance to OHKO, but too be honest you'll be switching into surf more often anyway, and no Milotic is going to stay in anyway. I want to keep the HP high-ish because it really helps Roserade pull off the recovery move better.

EDIT: @ the "firepower to beat chansey" thing. I say it has the firepower to beat it over two switch-ins, so I thought it was pretty clear that you cant 2HKO it right away >.>

 

[Heysup]

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this?

 

[Pirika]

Nice set. This could use Weather Ball and Solar Beam for an excellent sunny day abuser in UU. With Sleep Powder/Weather Ball/Solar Beam/Synthesis Roserade could abuse the sun with two powerful moves (Weather Ball have 150 BP under the sun) and being capable to restore 75% of HP in one turn.

 

[franky]

Just posting to say this is actually a great set. Although I never tried Sleep Powder on it, I alternated Substitute and Extrasensory and they both work fine.

 

[SlottedPig]

Crobat has been banned from UU, so there's no real need for Extrasensory.