OU Rest Tauros

I heard about a recent Tauros development, Rest. Here's what I have after trying it, but I'm 1400 elo, so I don't know much about higher elo matchups, not many reflect chanseys for example.


Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Rest.

Advantages
1- Cures paralysis. Usually only usable vs paralyzed pokemon.
2- Can play stall against reflax and reflect chansey.
3- You can roll for a crit Hyper Beam (22%) against a full health chansey without a permanent paralysis when you miss.
4- You can roll for paralysis vs Starmie, you get way more outs.

Disadvantages
1- You now only barely beat Rhydon instead of massacring it. Shrug.
2- No Tbolt vs cloyster I guess.
3- No 30% burn? Never used Fire Blast to be honest.


I'd appreciate a rest tauros user sharing their OG analysis though
 
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I heard about a recent Tauros development, Rest. Here's what I have after trying it, but I'm 1400 elo, so I don't know much about higher elo matchups, not many reflect chanseys for example.


Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Rest.

Advantages
1- Cures paralysis. Usually only usable vs paralyzed pokemon.
2- Can play stall against reflax and reflect chansey.
3- You can roll for a crit Hyper Beam (22%) against a full health chansey without a permanent paralysis when you miss.
4- You can roll for paralysis vs Starmie, you get way more outs.

Disadvantages
1- You now only barely beat Rhydon instead of massacring it. Shrug.
2- No Tbolt vs cloyster I guess.
3- No 30% burn? Never used Fire Blast to be honest.


I'd appreciate a rest tauros user sharing their OG analysis though
Rest Tauros' best trait is that it allows it to be the best wallbreaker in the game (destroying paralyzed Chansey and being able to fish for paralysis vs Starmie without risking being crippled in the process) without sacrificing itself to paralysis for the rest of the game. However, that does not mean you should be throwing Tauros' health to the wind, it is quite hard to wake up from Rest and be unparalyzed as while Tauros is bulky, it is not as bulky as Snorlax and can not learn Screens. Rest Tauros cannot stall Snorlax, it can stall Seismic Toss Chansey in very specific endgames but it is not something that will generally come up. The best places for Tauros to burn sleep turns is vs paralyzed Normal-types.
 
Rest Tauros' best trait is that it allows it to be the best wallbreaker in the game (destroying paralyzed Chansey and being able to fish for paralysis vs Starmie without risking being crippled in the process) without sacrificing itself to paralysis for the rest of the game. However, that does not mean you should be throwing Tauros' health to the wind, it is quite hard to wake up from Rest and be unparalyzed as while Tauros is bulky, it is not as bulky as Snorlax and can not learn Screens. Rest Tauros cannot stall Snorlax, it can stall Seismic Toss Chansey in very specific endgames but it is not something that will generally come up. The best places for Tauros to burn sleep turns is vs paralyzed Normal-types.
Thanks!

I did feel that a well played reflax beats rest tauros, but even at 1400 ELO, my opponent misplayed their Snorlax.
I think the correct play for a full HP paralyzed snorlax is to spam reflect to avoid damaging tauros, which forces tauros to either waste Rest PP or damage Snorlax (allowing snorlax to start using Rest in turn, cleansing paralysis and saving pp)

I wonder why Tauros would beat Sesimic Toss Cansey but not Boltbeam. Freeze can probably beat tauros if there's no other FRZN pokemon I guess, but can't tauros beat a paralyzed chansey otherwise, even if it has reflect?
 
I wonder why Tauros would beat Sesimic Toss Cansey but not Boltbeam. Freeze can probably beat tauros if there's no other FRZN pokemon I guess, but can't tauros beat a paralyzed chansey otherwise, even if it has reflect?
Chansey has an 11% crit rate
 
Chansey has an 11% crit rate
Let's run some numbers.

Oh damn, Ice Beam actually does 27.5%! I was under the impression it did. 18% I must have had my opponent's chansey with -1 Special from a previous Chansey Calc.

I actually was running Psychic Snorlax, so I had made a Psychic Spdef Drop into Body Slam combo, since we were both paralyzed. That in itself made worth it the jankiness of using Psychic Snorlax, and dozens of other Janks I was running with those experimental teams. Yo just gotta jank sometimes, it's worth the ELO expenditure, and in the long run you'll probably just regain it. (However ELO in non stochastic games does not have as much elasticity as it does in deterministic games, one can probably say they reach asymptotically their "true elo"if we define true elo as the elo one has when he goes sweat mode. However sweat mode itself is not sustainable so the "true elo" includes the capacity and consistency to stay in sweat mode and....)

So this is a 4HKO basically.

Let's assume an ex-paralized tauros (Healthy with low speed (actually we should assume a probabilistic model of Tauros, since he may be or may not be with a dropped speed, and this speed is independent of the also-probabilistic accuracy-component-of-paralysis)) Tauros.

We can simplify our modelling of speed and eliminate off-by-one errors in this variable, by defining that either player might go first, i.e: a speed tie. For matters of probabilistic branching calculations, the procedure shall be the same as if we were against a gengar.

We may adjust the calculation, as we would if this were any other event with %-precision probability, like a crit chance. In which case it is recommendable to go with 3/4ths and 1/4ths so as to simplify calculations. Whether in favour of paralysis or not, now depends moreso on your game style,

I for example would use 3/4ths, as I would prefer to get my tauros paralyzed for style points, as well as to take advantage of a subversion of expectations in terms of 4th move uncertainty. For we must consider also the advantages that mainline variants get by using alternative movesets ( blizzard tauros vs non-rest tauros in this case, but also applies to tbolt tauros vs cloyster/reflax (only other signficiant use of blizzard?).)

So 4HKO, let's define rests as a move that heals to full health, at the cost of 3 turns, instead of 1. Speed is mostly irrelevant in this case, as rest marks the start of the cycle. It only impacts in scenarios where switch out options exist and are relevant, which usually doesn't allow playing out to a full rest cycle anyways.

This locks tauros in a full cycle of resting, which of course assuming freeze chances and crit chances, means that chancey is bound to get a kill eventually.

But if chansey is paralyzed, this gives chansey an average of (3/4*3=) 2 attacks and 1 quarter, we may multiply this again by crit chance to get a more precise estimate, but this doesn't greatly change matters I think, especially considering Tauros can farm re-rests to reset the cycle until he gets a luckier roll. In this scenario, Tauros wants to move last, as you have one extra turn of information to consider whether to rerest or not, said another way, it would the turn advantage here is worth a chancey crit chance (11%) * a tauros. (funnily enough, the older generations are one of the few metas where variable-pokemon values, (like in chess where a queen is worth 9 but a knight is worth 3) are so relevant.

At any rate this would give tauros an extra attack to play with, where he can farm for crits or chansey paras. In which case chansey would have a chance at the Matchup by crit, instead of outright losing 100% of the time.

That said, chancey can still reapply thunder wave after resting in order to regain a chance. However chancey increases its own probabilities of being losing by paralysis, so probably no effect.


So yeah, Tauros pretty much beats paralyzed Chancey, but not non para chansey, exactly how much? At least 3/4ths to 1/4ths, probably by even more.

I mean non rest tauros also beats chancey, probably with a higher probability, the difference may only be marginal, but the difference is that rest tauros ends up non paralyzed, albeit with low health. Which will equaty to at least a Body Slam worth of damage (usually 30%), plus a paralysis chance vs non-norms, or Hbeam beam damage (55% usually) , a Hbeam + crit chance(22%* 1mon) , or an HBeam sweep (a win).

That's why chancey is the queen of Gen 1. Because it's all about chances!
 
Regarding reflect chancey. Body slam crit does like 80%, which puts chansey in range of Hbeam. The ratio of tauros getting a crit sequence (accounting for para chances) vs chancey, compared to the highest of 11% (chanceys chance to crit, assuming she's smart enough to avoid double paralyzing to lose the slow speed advantage) or the chances getting a double para (or critting) on tauros minus the extra para chance chansey takes when going for para (which is less than zero), will probably be the odds of tauros beating chansey, as each mon rolls one of those per turn for a kill.

So chancey is 1/16th per cycle, and tauros is 22%.(1/5th), however, chansey has a 3/4th chances of landing a twave when tauros goes for their bodyslam. Which would leave a para, but higher hp tauros (45% instead of 12.5%). In which case tauros can at least go for the kill then, or go for a restart. Which are probably both equally good, although I feel taking the kill is better.
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2141603682

In this game rest tauros both uses rest and faces a rhydon. So jointly Blizzard is missed, as it would have netted an even higher probability win. But also we get to see a tauros vs chansey+ tauros end game where rest is used for a marginal advantage over a HyperBeam/Body Slam flip vs a BodySlam/Chansey switch flip.


As an additional note, Blizzard is also missied in low health Tauros vs full health tauros endgames, where hyper beam crit would not kill, so low health tauros can blizzard for a 5% win chance. Marginal, but everything adds up, ensuring that blizzard stays as the mainline, and rest as an alternative.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2141610975-jukbcilc58k6xslwyct5znotsirq8jdpw

Rest tauros nailed the endgame here.

Non optimal play from opponent, but I guess that's a strong suit of Tauros, it requires correct counterplay. As opposed to blizzard which is very straightforward.

Rest tauros gives your opponent more chances to fuck up. It requires more calculations, which gives us an opportunity to beat our opponents. Especially if we believe we have higher elo, or that they are not used to this alternative set.

This tauros also has higher variability, a standard tauros is very consistent, like an alakazam, it trades damage for damage. Unlike a chansey which can either be a wincon or just get no kills. High variability mons are useful for converting losing situations into winners, blizzard tauros can already do this by forcing a tauros ditto, but rest tauros just gives you more situations to turn stuff around.

Additionally in midgame, we started risking our tauros not in hyperbeam range, but in body slam range. This way we only risk getting paralyzed instead of paralyzing plus giving our opponent chansey or switch in a free turn. 2 seismic tosses already put chansey in Body Slam crit range (or double body slam range if opponent chansey gets paralyzed). The para chance is great as well, as an opponent chansey getting paralyzed vs a hyper beam is not that bad, they can just heal while we recover.
 
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